Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

roadburner

The hack probably removed the driveshaft to he front differential.

roadburner

I've seen it happen many times before; someone gets an outrageous repair estimate from an ethically challenged shop- so instead they take their car to "Billy Bob's Coin Laundry, Tanning Salon, and Expert Car Repair" and let a bunch of incompetents screw up the car...

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

The hack probably removed the driveshaft to he front differential.

If it was made into a RWD that would be a bad move to give it to a young driver who probably never drove one.

RWD can be a blast to drive in the snow if you know what you're doing but not as an every day transport. Getting stuck everywhere is not fun.

roadburner

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

Here is a question for the mechanically minded.

I mentioned my SIL bought my 2004 BMW X3 in 2008. The car has held up well but it needed an $8000 repair done to it. My SIL, who I don't get along with as you know said he "knows a guy" who could probably fix it for a few $100s.

I was skeptical, but, the "guy" did get it working....but, it only has 2 wheel drive now. His youngest is going to use the car for university....no highway driving...probably not a lot of driving in the snow too I imagine.

The question is, will the car behave properly as a 4WD car when it is operating as 2WD, and should this car be safety approved?

I'm gonna ask a dumb question - is it now RWD or FWD, if there are only 2 drive wheels?

I'm not mechanically minded by any stretch, but I'm instantly wary of any "repair" that alters the drivetrain in such a substantial manner. And, I'm also guessing that the "fix" is permanent - no going back to 4WD.

What was the initial problem that required an $8000 repair?

Penny wise and pound foolish, me thinks.

Probably the ATC400 transfer case- around $4,000 at an honest dealer- or one could easily find one of the shops that sell rebuilt units or rebuild kits. The brain-dead moron who converted the truck to 2WD shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a set of tools.

Hey Roadburner.....find out from one of your racing buddies or dealership mechanics...if you are still there what they think of the idea, and if anything can go wrong.

I mentioned the "fix" to my Service Advisor- he grimaced and just shook his head...

carnaught

‘59’s had their fins sloping the other way:

http://www.cars-on-line.com/photo/84100/59ply84170-3.jpg

iluvmysephia1

Just checked in at the Kia World website to see what's new. Apparently the base model standard transmission 2018 Kia Rio hatchback is only going to cost $14,200. Wow - I am interested. I'm also shopping the 2017 Subaru Crosstrek for good traction on possible upcoming snowy roads Hwy 150 and 97A heading to Wenatchee from Manson. Nice entry level pricing, my guess for this model was $14,995, so I wasn't far off on it.


2018 Kia Rio hatchback

Michaell

iluvmysephia1 said:

Just checked in at the Kia World website to see what's new. Apparently the base model standard transmission 2018 Kia Rio hatchback is only going to cost $14,200. Wow - I am interested. I'm also shopping the 2017 Subaru Crosstrek for good traction on possible upcoming snowy roads Hwy 150 and 97A heading to Wenatchee from Manson. Nice entry level pricing, my guess for this model was $14,995, so I wasn't far off on it.


2018 Kia Rio hatchback

If you're shopping Subaru, you should look at the Impreza - this is also available with a stick shift, and costs considerably less than the Crosstrek.

0patience

Well, if they removed a driveline (rear) to make it work, I would be concerned that there is a danger of something, like the differential having a catastrophic failure.
Removing the CV joints wouldn't be much better, as what ever failed, can still come apart.
The problem is, not knowing exactly what they did and why, can be dangerous. Personally and as someone who grew up in Alaska and now works on snow removal equipment, I would never drive that vehicle in the snow.
Too many unknowns.

iluvmysephia1

If you're shopping Subaru, you should look at the Impreza - this is also available with a stick shift, and costs considerably less than the Crosstrek.

Great point, Michaell. While still in Missouri I saw a Subaru Imprezza sedan in black. I had ta do a double-take! Beautiful car. More research is in order.

Mr_Shiftright

0patience said:

Well, if they removed a driveline (rear) to make it work, I would be concerned that there is a danger of something, like the differential having a catastrophic failure.
Removing the CV joints wouldn't be much better, as what ever failed, can still come apart.
The problem is, not knowing exactly what they did and why, can be dangerous. Personally and as someone who grew up in Alaska and now works on snow removal equipment, I would never drive that vehicle in the snow.
Too many unknowns.

I agree..we need to know more specifically what was done. I would think that DSC would have to be disabled as well, if the front shaft were removed,and that the car's performance will change. If the CV axles were removed, that would be IMO criminal negligence.

This could be one of those classic short term success but long term OOPS! Scenarios.

driver100

First, The Plymouth shown was a 1958 model. The 59s did reverse the fins. Shown is a 59:


The car I had was a 58 Dodge, which resembled a 58 Plymouth. There were other 58 Dodges that had a completely different look. Not sure why they made this one Dodge resemble a Plymouth...might be a Canadian thing. You can see Dodge written on it.


Most 58 Dodge's looked like this:

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

0patience said:

Well, if they removed a driveline (rear) to make it work, I would be concerned that there is a danger of something, like the differential having a catastrophic failure.
Removing the CV joints wouldn't be much better, as what ever failed, can still come apart.
The problem is, not knowing exactly what they did and why, can be dangerous. Personally and as someone who grew up in Alaska and now works on snow removal equipment, I would never drive that vehicle in the snow.
Too many unknowns.

I agree..we need to know more specifically what was done. I would think that DSC would have to be disabled as well, if the front shaft were removed,and that the car's performance will change. If the CV axles were removed, that would be IMO criminal negligence.

This could be one of those classic short term success but long term OOPS! Scenarios.

I thank you all for your comments regarding the X3 that is now an X1 1/2 since it is only has 2WD.
I don't know how he got it done, but, the SIL has no worries about skirting any rules, laws, or the consequences if he can get something done on the cheap.

pensfan83

Not to change the subject but just stepping out to lunch and it's hotter in Pittsburgh (85) than it is in Las Vegas (75) at the moment Crazy weather!

Michaell

iluvmysephia1 said:

If you're shopping Subaru, you should look at the Impreza - this is also available with a stick shift, and costs considerably less than the Crosstrek.

Great point, Michaell. While still in Missouri I saw a Subaru Imprezza sedan in black. I had ta do a double-take! Beautiful car. More research is in order.

A neighbor on my block has a new Impreza. Don't know the trim level, but it has fancy up-sized wheels. Sharp looking. Even the base model is pretty well equipped.

fintail

Isn't there a term "Plodge" for a Canadian Plymouth/Dodge hybrid? Weird how that existed, along with Pontiac Chevys, while Ford just made entirely different trim.

berri

59 Dodge; that was another one over the top - at least the US version

driver100

berri said:

59 Dodge; that was another one over the top - at least the US version

Over the top yes, but, something about driving one of those big barges........that is when you really felt like the King of the Road;

fintail

Goes to show that menacing faces on cars aren't new - you'll get out of the way with that thing staring you down

isellhondas

driver100 said:

isellhondas said:

I'm almost positive that skirts and continental kits weren't factory installed but were either dealer installed or aftermarket. none of us would have EVER added these on our cars!

I'm happy I'm not alone with my feelings on these!

Most fads don't look good once the fad is over...but, people like them at the time. Fads include tail fins, whitewalls, skirts, vinyl roof, tu-tone and 3-tone paint jobs, vinyl cladding etc.

I liked the way the cut outs on the bumpers were made for the tailights on the 59 Ford, with a continental kit.

But the CK looks kind of big and ugly and unnecessary today.

Took a decent looking car and whipped it with the ugly stick!

isellhondas

driver100 said:

berri said:

You know what really amazes me, the 59 Ford was considered the conservative design compared to the 59 Chevy. But really, Plymouth was probably the low key one that year!

The 59 Plymouth may be the most outrageous....with those fins. I had a 59 Plymouth and I loved the fins...made me think I was a fighter pilot.

Except that Plymouth is a 1958. Something about it's stance doesn't look right? Front end seems too high or something?

abacomike

isellhondas said:

You know what really amazes me, the 59 Ford was considered the conservative design compared to the 59 Chevy. But really, Plymouth was probably the low key one that year!

The 59 Plymouth may be the most outrageous....with those fins. I had a 59 Plymouth and I loved the fins...made me think I was a fighter pilot.

Except that Plymouth is a 1958. Something about it's stance doesn't look right? Front end seems too high or something?

Looks like the wheels/tires are a bit smaller in diameter making the whole car seem a bit strange.

roadburner

The only '50s domestics that I'd actually like to have are a '57 Corvette and the mild custom '58 Impala from American Graffiti.

driver100

isellhondas said:

driver100 said:

berri said:

You know what really amazes me, the 59 Ford was considered the conservative design compared to the 59 Chevy. But really, Plymouth was probably the low key one that year!

The 59 Plymouth may be the most outrageous....with those fins. I had a 59 Plymouth and I loved the fins...made me think I was a fighter pilot.

Except that Plymouth is a 1958. Something about it's stance doesn't look right? Front end seems too high or something?

I think you guys are right....something is off, like as if it was put together and not quite the way it should be. It is like the way I put IKEA furniture together, something just doesn't seem right. This one looks better, though it is probably a drawing;

driver100

abacomike said:

isellhondas said:

driver100 said:

berri said:

You know what really amazes me, the 59 Ford was considered the conservative design compared to the 59 Chevy. But really, Plymouth was probably the low key one that year!

The 59 Plymouth may be the most outrageous....with those fins. I had a 59 Plymouth and I loved the fins...made me think I was a fighter pilot.

Except that Plymouth is a 1958. Something about it's stance doesn't look right? Front end seems too high or something?

Looks like the wheels/tires are a bit smaller in diameter making the whole car seem a bit strange.

You are right Mike....the wheels don't fit properly. There are other Plymouths that look much better. If you compare ones with skirts and those without, the ones without look much better. This page has lots of them;
1958 Plymouths

Mr_Shiftright

I'd like an original Chrysler 300 coupe. You don't have to hand it to me on a silver platter, though. Just leave it anywhere....

berri

Personally, I always enjoyed a well decked out land yacht

imidazol97

Mr_Shiftright said:

I'd like an original Chrysler 300 coupe. You don't have to hand it to me on a silver platter, though. Just leave it anywhere....

This...

oldfarmer50

pensfan83 said:

Not to change the subject but just stepping out to lunch and it's hotter in Pittsburgh (85) than it is in Las Vegas (75) at the moment Crazy weather!

It got up to 90 for the third day here. By Saturday it'll be down to 60.

oldfarmer50

isellhondas said:

driver100 said:

berri said:

You know what really amazes me, the 59 Ford was considered the conservative design compared to the 59 Chevy. But really, Plymouth was probably the low key one that year!

The 59 Plymouth may be the most outrageous....with those fins. I had a 59 Plymouth and I loved the fins...made me think I was a fighter pilot.

Except that Plymouth is a 1958. Something about it's stance doesn't look right? Front end seems too high or something?

Here's a 57 Plymouth that bid $30k. Looks low in back too.

ab348

driver100 said:

berri said:

59 Dodge; that was another one over the top - at least the US version

Over the top yes, but, something about driving one of those big barges........that is when you really felt like the King of the Road;

I was at a cruise-in tonight and there was a '59 Olds Super 88 2-door HT there. Talk about King of the Road - that thing was massive. Hard to believe that was a standard-size car back then.

Beautiful car though (similar car below to what was there).

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E_2KoiCKai0

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YMTKIRuvSyA

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

berri said:

59 Dodge; that was another one over the top - at least the US version

Over the top yes, but, something about driving one of those big barges........that is when you really felt like the King of the Road;

I was at a cruise-in tonight and there was a '59 Olds Super 88 2-door HT there. Talk about King of the Road - that thing was massive. Hard to believe that was a standard-size car back then.

Beautiful car though (similar car below to what was there).

That's when cars were cars and not jelly bean, air flow efficient, generic looking, overly efficient modes of transportation;

berri

A high school buddy had an old 59 Olds Flat top in high school. Nice car, but lots of 4bbl carb problems. Compared to its siblings, the Old was somewhat restrained that year. I had an uncle who drove a black 59 Buick LeSabre coupe. Another out there car, but it fit the times.

jmonroe

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

berri said:

59 Dodge; that was another one over the top - at least the US version

Over the top yes, but, something about driving one of those big barges........that is when you really felt like the King of the Road;

I was at a cruise-in tonight and there was a '59 Olds Super 88 2-door HT there. Talk about King of the Road - that thing was massive. Hard to believe that was a standard-size car back then.

Beautiful car though (similar car below to what was there).

My Father traded in his very troublesome '58 Plymouth Sport Suburban wagon in the Fall of '59 (60's introduction time) for a left-over '59 Olds Super 88, 4 door HT, 2 tone Golden Brown and White. That was a barge alright but it moved way better than the Plymouth dog and it had plenty of room for my Senior Prom date with her big skirt thing and for my buddy and his date in the back seat with her large skirt thing too.

FWIW, the car did not have skirts.

jmonroe

driver100

I googled something like Can you make an AWD car into a 2WD car. I am still looking into it, some of these guys say it can be done, some advise against it.

CAN YOU MAKE AN AWD CAR INTO A 2WD CAR?

Maybe someone can read the technical and come up with a definitive answer - What could possibly go wrong?????

imidazol97

jmonroe said:

FWIW, the car did not have skirts. jmonroe

As it should be.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

I googled something like Can you make an AWD car into a 2WD car. I am still looking into it, some of these guys say it can be done, some advise against it.

CAN YOU MAKE AN AWD CAR INTO A 2WD CAR?

Maybe someone can read the technical and come up with a definitive answer - What could possibly go wrong?????

I like the question on why are car tires round instead of square. That person should not be on the road.

roadburner

driver100 said:

I googled something like Can you make an AWD car into a 2WD car. I am still looking into it, some of these guys say it can be done, some advise against it.

CAN YOU MAKE AN AWD CAR INTO A 2WD CAR?

Maybe someone can read the technical and come up with a definitive answer - What could possibly go wrong?????

I don't have to; the transfer case might grenade, the DSC(stability control) is designed to work with a functional AWD system, and so is the ABS. Any one of those factors would be enough to discourage me.

Face it; SIL allowed an incompetent hack to damage her car in order to save money. That's the long and the short of it.

fintail

All of the HTs were flat tops, right? Even as a leftover, that would have been a cool car. You don't see many flat tops today:



Probably a fun time to be a young person, too, with the generally optimistic feeling of the day, and funny youth culture of the time.

jmonroe said:

My Father traded in his very troublesome '58 Plymouth Sport Suburban wagon in the Fall of '59 (60's introduction time) for a left-over '59 Olds Super 88, 4 door HT, 2 tone Golden Brown and White. That was a barge alright but it moved way better than the Plymouth dog and it had plenty of room for my Senior Prom date with her big skirt thing and for my buddy and his date in the back seat with her large skirt thing too.

FWIW, the car did not have skirts.

jmonroe

qbrozen

roadburner said:

I don't have to; the transfer case might grenade, the DSC(stability control) is designed to work with a functional AWD system, and so is the ABS. Any one of those factors would be enough to discourage me.

Face it; SIL allowed an incompetent hack to damage her car in order to save money. That's the long and the short of it.

Just to play devil's advocate, because I believe I have a split personality, I'll argue the other side.

Let's say, assuming it is a RWD-based setup, which I believe it is, the front output shaft is removed. The computers don't know you did that.

If there is slippage from the rear wheels, it will transfer power toward the front wheels, only the power is now spinning nothing. I don't see a big deal there. You'd actually be losing power to those rear wheels which then may slow them down enough to regain traction. Or you are stuck.

As for ABS, that only matters when braking and slippage is detected. It then pulses the brake on the slipping corner. Has nothing to do with the AWD and no longer having AWD won't make a difference on how the ABS operates.

DSC will matter depending on how it works. Some DSC systems apply power to particular wheels to straighten you out. Many (most?) use brakes on individual wheels to straighten out the car. If that is the case, which it was with my 1-series anyway, then the missing driveshaft again won't make a difference.

0patience

@driver100
I know the answer. Unfortunately, probably not the answer you're looking for.

abacomike

I was out doing a bunch of errands today between Boca Raton and Coconut Creek areas. There are still loads of dead branches and hedges along most roads here. In the back of my building. the grounds crews here did a great job saving trees. Those that were leaning were pulled straight with backhoes and staked with wire/rope and wooden stakes. So, it is pretty plush in the common area behind all our buildings in my particular village. We didn't lose much. But where the trees were not as protected, we lost over 100.

It's been raining very heavily every day here which is helping the trees recover more quickly. One thing the grounds crews have not gotten to as of yet is cutting the grass. It's pretty hard to cut grass if there are dead twigs and branches all over the place. I sincerely hope it continues to rain so these trees and shrubs will rebound nicely.

roadburner

qbrozen said:

roadburner said:

I don't have to; the transfer case might grenade, the DSC(stability control) is designed to work with a functional AWD system, and so is the ABS. Any one of those factors would be enough to discourage me.

Face it; SIL allowed an incompetent hack to damage her car in order to save money. That's the long and the short of it.

Just to play devil's advocate, because I believe I have a split personality, I'll argue the other side.

Let's say, assuming it is a RWD-based setup, which I believe it is, the front output shaft is removed. The computers don't know you did that.

If there is slippage from the rear wheels, it will transfer power toward the front wheels, only the power is now spinning nothing. I don't see a big deal there. You'd actually be losing power to those rear wheels which then may slow them down enough to regain traction. Or you are stuck.

As for ABS, that only matters when braking and slippage is detected. It then pulses the brake on the slipping corner. Has nothing to do with the AWD and no longer having AWD won't make a difference on how the ABS operates.

DSC will matter depending on how it works. Some DSC systems apply power to particular wheels to straighten you out. Many (most?) use brakes on individual wheels to straighten out the car. If that is the case, which it was with my 1-series anyway, then the missing driveshaft again won't make a difference.

The thing is, as I understand it, the control modules for the DSC and ABS also receive data from the transfer case; now that data is wrong with respect to the F/R torque split at a minimum.

Another factor that hasn't been discussed is what happens when SIL eventually wants to sell the car. I can't imagine anyone would want it after she says, "Well, it used to be AWD but it cost too much to fix- so I took it ti Bubba's Expert Auto Care, and he removed some parts and binned them- so now it is only RWD."

stickguy

From hearing drivers stories, he either rides it until ready for junking, or just wouldn't tell the buyer.

pensfan83

Let's say, assuming it is a RWD-based setup, which I believe it is, the front output shaft is removed. The computers don't know you did that.

If there is slippage from the rear wheels, it will transfer power toward the front wheels, only the power is now spinning nothing. I don't see a big deal there. You'd actually be losing power to those rear wheels which then may slow them down enough to regain traction. Or you are stuck.

When the transfer case in my parents Grand Cherokee crapped out the dealer actually suggested they disconnect the front driveshaft and it would still be safe to use as a 2WD vehicle. That never came to fruition because a 2WD Jeep is pretty useless in the Northeast and my dad was skeptical removing a piece of the driveline wouldn't do any harm so they had it fixed.

28firefighter

I seem to recall the early Volvo XC90s (circa 2005) had a high failure rate in the driveshaft at higher mileage and the more cost effective and efficient solution was simply to remove it and make the car FWD. 

@qbrozen - didn't that happen to you?

driver100

I enjoy reading the comments regarding making an AWD X3 into a 2WDer. Good points all around. I read a lot of the posts on the topic and they varied just as they do here, some said it will have no affect, some said it could be a disaster. It may depend on the car I suppose, Jeeps seem to be OK with the conversion to 2WD. Is that because a Jeep is really 4WD, rather than AWD? As roadrunner mentioned some feel the AWD system transfers power all around, and may be more sensitive to road conditions.

I think a really good BMW mechanic would be the only one who would really know if it is a really bad thing to do.
The S(son)IL probably won't sell the car....he drives his cars into the ground........though he will spend $500 to go out of town to watch a hockey game.

driver100

abacomike said:

I was out doing a bunch of errands today between Boca Raton and Coconut Creek areas. There are still loads of dead branches and hedges along most roads here. In the back of my building. the grounds crews here did a great job saving trees. Those that were leaning were pulled straight with backhoes and staked with wire/rope and wooden stakes. So, it is pretty plush in the common area behind all our buildings in my particular village. We didn't lose much. But where the trees were not as protected, we lost over 100.

It's been raining very heavily every day here which is helping the trees recover more quickly. One thing the grounds crews have not gotten to as of yet is cutting the grass. It's pretty hard to cut grass if there are dead twigs and branches all over the place. I sincerely hope it continues to rain so these trees and shrubs will rebound nicely.

We fly down Oct 25th....I guess there is still the potential for another hurricane into early November. I hope not. I hear we have had our cleanup done and things are back to normal for now.

qbrozen

roadburner said:

The thing is, as I understand it, the control modules for the DSC and ABS also receive data from the transfer case; now that data is wrong with respect to the F/R torque split at a minimum.

Could be, although I don't know why BMW would want to design it that way rather than using the same sensors and programming from their 2wd model, but I certainly wouldn't put it past a manufacturer to make something more complicated than it needs to be.