Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

imidazol97

oldfarmer50 said:

Don't tell me they got your hopes up. You know those smooth politicians will pee on your leg and tell you it's rain.

And steal your underwear in the process.

oldfarmer50

Hey iluv, have you ever considered getting another Soul but leasing to keep payments low? Local screamer dealer here has standard shift Kias for $150/mo. $0 down. Don't know how that works numbers wise or if you're fixed on a Scion only but something to consider.

https://www.fuccillokiaschenectady.com/new-inventory/?q=make_kia--model_soul--year_2018

graphicguy

breld said:

oldfarmer50 said:

If car buying were perfectly logical we'd all be driving Honda Civics.

Although I suspect some of us would still strive for a little excitement.

My wife's on the same page as I am as far as "striving for a little excitement" in our cars.

Now, that’s a garage with some really cool cars!

graphicguy

@abacomike.....sorry to hear about the “event” at the tint shop on your new car.

Was wondering.....since Mercedes all come with all the safety bells and whistles, I would ask the tint shop what they were doing with the car. I know with mine, if it’s anywhere near an obstacle in front, behind or either side of it, lights and beepers go off if I get too close.

Was the tint shop just not paying attention to those warnings? Or, were they doing something else with the car?

graphicguy

@Michaell ....interesting point you make about people looking at $1000+ Lease payments.

My son has a couple of his friends who are doing just that. Understand, they are in their late 20s-early 30s. I don’t begrudge anyone success, especially people I know (like me son or his friends).

But, I know what my son makes, and am confident his friends are all in the ballpark of his salary (all of them in IT). They aren’t anywhere near the salaries I would consider comfortable with a four figure car payment.

They are leasing Audis and BMWs in that 4 figure range. That said, they are living in crappy apartments in shaky neighborhoods, too.

I guess it’s all about priorities. Theirs are different than mine.

dino001

abacomike said:

Not quite - my monthly payments on the 740i were $384 per month with 5 years remaining on the loan.  So the car was depreciating faster than the value of the payments.  By the end of the loan, the car would be six years old and would be worth $22,500 give or take, if I was lucky.

Look - I leased a car with a huge cap cost reduction to get to $600 a month + tax - something my monthly income could handle, without having to withdraw money from my bank - but will be able to deposit $8200 into my accounts.

So you did have a real estate loan on the 740 BTW, if you had taken the entire equity out, you'd be able to deposit whole 30 grand on your account and supply the difference in payments out of that. You'd have to pay extra interest (money factor) on that amount, which is not totally a chicken fee (about 25-30 bucks, if I get your numbers right). Much better use of that money might have been multiple security deposit (unlike BMW, Mercedes still has it), which would have lowered your interest and you'd get it back at the end of the lease. Admittedly, the monthly payment would have been higher.

As I mentioned the biggest drawback of putting money down on the lease (as opposed a loan), is the depreciation risk in case of a total loss. Leases are automatically GAP insured, so if such a thing happened on zero down lease, the GAP insurance would have picked up any difference between the cash value paid by your car insurance and the remaining lease value, you'd only owe the deductible and kept the remainder of 30 grand in your account. If, on the other hand, the car gets totalled in your current financing structure, you'd likely see a very small fraction of that money back. The reduction is so large that I think it's unlikely you'd see nothing, but the bank would make everything to not to part with the money it already collected from you. And you'll still owe the deductible, as order of payments would be: your insurance at cash value minus deductible, your deductible, whatever remains is covered your cap reduction, fees, then whatever is left - you. None of that matters of course, if you don't have an accident. This is just a risk management exercise.

I think your "annual" rollups are truly over, Mike. Whatever equity you had, you just volunteered to give away. Unless you find another magic way to break the lease without paying penalties and find some more couch money to put down, your next payments for those expensive toys will likely skyrocket to $1500-2000. Or next car you're getting is a Fusion or Focus

graphicguy

1st world problems......

Had mentioned I ordered the new iPhone X to replace my iPhone 6. The new iPhone was delivered earlier this week. It’s still an iPhone and everything is sort of familiar. But, using face recognition and dealing with different menu operations (vs the 6), there’s a little bit of a learning curve. But, I like it.

Anyway, I wanted to sell my iPhone 6. So, eBay here I come. It sold. Not a lot of money, but still a few hundred dollars.

I’m always leery of bidders who have “0” reviews on their transaction. The winning bidder had no reviews. And, he came in with a last second bid to overtake the person who had been leading bidder throughout the auction. So, he sort of knew how the auction works. This is strange only because he had no transactions listed where he bought or sold anything on eBay.

PayPal is the only payment I take. It protects me, and it protects the buyer. Comes time for payment, and the excuses begin.

-can’t open a paypal account
-will I take a check? (No, I clearly and emphatically said PayPal only).
-Will I ship the phone and wait for payment later (huh? Do you really think I’m that naive?)
-it’s a gift for his daughter’s B-Day, and she’ll be disappointed if I don’t ship without proper payment.

Finally, I cut off communication.

No, I’m not out any money. And no, I did not ship out the phone. But, this guy was either a flake, or a scammer....maybe both. He irritated the snot out of me.

Thanks for the vent space!

dino001

graphicguy said:

@Michaell ....interesting point you make about people looking at $1000+ Lease payments.

My son has a couple of his friends who are doing just that. Understand, they are in their late 20s-early 30s. I don’t begrudge anyone success, especially people I know (like me son or his friends).

But, I know what my son makes, and am confident his friends are all in the ballpark of his salary (all of them in IT). They aren’t anywhere near the salaries I would consider comfortable with a four figure car payment.

They are leasing Audis and BMWs in that 4 figure range. That said, they are living in crappy apartments in shaky neighborhoods, too.

I guess it’s all about priorities. Theirs are different than mine.

It's called "car poor".

qbrozen

dino001 said:

Not quite - my monthly payments on the 740i were $384 per month with 5 years remaining on the loan.  So the car was depreciating faster than the value of the payments.  By the end of the loan, the car would be six years old and would be worth $22,500 give or take, if I was lucky.

Look - I leased a car with a huge cap cost reduction to get to $600 a month + tax - something my monthly income could handle, without having to withdraw money from my bank - but will be able to deposit $8200 into my accounts.

So you did have a real estate loan on the 740 BTW, if you had taken the entire equity out, you'd be able to deposit whole 30 grand on your account and supply the difference in payments out of that. You'd have to pay extra interest (money factor) on that amount, which is not totally a chicken fee (about 25-30 bucks, if I get your numbers right). Much better use of that money might have been multiple security deposit (unlike BMW, Mercedes still has it), which would have lowered your interest and you'd get it back at the end of the lease. Admittedly, the monthly payment would have been higher. As I mentioned the biggest drawback of putting money down on the lease (as opposed a loan), is the depreciation risk in case of a total loss. Leases are automatically GAP insured, so if such a thing happened on zero down lease, the GAP insurance would have picked up any difference between the cash value paid by your car insurance and the remaining lease value, you'd only owe the deductible and kept the remainder of 30 grand in your account. If, on the other hand, the car gets totalled in your current financing structure, you'd likely see a very small fraction of that money back. The reduction is so large that I think it's unlikely you'd see nothing, but the bank would make everything to not to part with the money it already collected from you. And you'll still owe the deductible, as order of payments would be: your insurance at cash value minus deductible, your deductible, whatever remains is covered your cap reduction, fees, then whatever is left - you. None of that matters of course, if you don't have an accident. This is just a risk management exercise. I think your "annual" rollups are truly over, Mike. Whatever equity you had, you just volunteered to give away. Unless you find another magic way to break the lease without paying penalties and find some more couch money to put down, your next payments for those expensive toys will likely skyrocket to $1500-2000. Or next car you're getting is a Fusion or Focus

He did what he is comfortable with and is happy. Why continue to revisit your opinions on the matter?

Also, as I have said many times before, putting money down on a lease is no different than on a purchase, IMHO. You would lose the depreciation either way in case of total loss. 

ab348

qbrozen said:

He did what he is comfortable with and is happy. Why continue to revisit your opinions on the matter?

Also, as I have said many times before, putting money down on a lease is no different than on a purchase, IMHO. You would lose the depreciation either way in case of total loss. 

I agree, qb. I like Dino usually but I found this post borderline offensive. Let Mike enjoy what he wants to enjoy. It's his money.

dino001

qbrozen said:

He did what he is comfortable with and is happy. Why continue to revisit your opinions on the matter?

Also, as I have said many times before, putting money down on a lease is no different than on a purchase, IMHO. You would lose the depreciation either way in case of total loss. 

That is just incorrect. One of those biggest lease advantages over loans has always been risk transfer (for a fee, of course). Leases are automatically GAP insured, so any additional depreciation you have beyond what you're scheduled to pay, or actual cash value vs. assumed depreciation, is covered by the GAP underwriter. Putting money down on lease defeats this advantage in a trade it for lower payments and lower total financial charges.

But I'll leave the subject now and apologize to everybody for the bluntness. The car is beautiful.

imidazol97

graphicguy said:

Thanks for the vent space!

I bought a trivial item under $7 on ebay. Never got a ship notice. Waited 14 days or so and the supposed seller said he/she had been occupied with the hurricane but the items had shipped the day before. He/she would refund my money, which they did. Seller didn't intend to ship and thought amount was so small buyers would forgetaboutit.

I tried to file a seller complaint with Ebay. They make it so hard to find a way to contact them. Then there's the language barrier. And then there's explaining it to one person who clearly sees the intended scam, but then wants to turn me over to a next level to explain all this. I did their work for them. The emails throught their site explain the scam. The Ebay operation itself is worse than Facebook's insulation from feedback unless you're one of their targeted groups.

I give up on Ebay.

imidazol97

dino001 said:

... Putting money down on lease defeats this advantage in a trade it for lower payments and lower total financial charges.

I never could understand all the variables in leasing vs buying for an individual. You've clarified much of that. My logic was if the leasing were to the advantage of the buyer most dealerships wouldn't push it so hard.

roadburner

graphicguy said:

1st world problems......

Had mentioned I ordered the new iPhone X to replace my iPhone 6. The new iPhone was delivered earlier this week. It’s still an iPhone and everything is sort of familiar. But, using face recognition and dealing with different menu operations (vs the 6), there’s a little bit of a learning curve. But, I like it.

Anyway, I wanted to sell my iPhone 6. So, eBay here I come. It sold. Not a lot of money, but still a few hundred dollars.

I’m always leery of bidders who have “0” reviews on their transaction. The winning bidder had no reviews. And, he came in with a last second bid to overtake the person who had been leading bidder throughout the auction. So, he sort of knew how the auction works. This is strange only because he had no transactions listed where he bought or sold anything on eBay.

PayPal is the only payment I take. It protects me, and it protects the buyer. Comes time for payment, and the excuses begin.

-can’t open a paypal account
-will I take a check? (No, I clearly and emphatically said PayPal only).
-Will I ship the phone and wait for payment later (huh? Do you really think I’m that naive?)
-it’s a gift for his daughter’s B-Day, and she’ll be disappointed if I don’t ship without proper payment.

Finally, I cut off communication.

No, I’m not out any money. And no, I did not ship out the phone. But, this guy was either a flake, or a scammer....maybe both. He irritated the snot out of me.

Thanks for the vent space!

My turn...

Last week I ordered a set of Mini floor liners from Amazon; the sale was "facilitated" through a California BMW/Mini dealer. The liners arrived on time, but crammed into a too-small box. Oh well... when I unpack them, there is one Mini laner and one BMW liner- both for the driver side of the car. Not an easy mistake to make, since one mat wears a MINI badge, the other a BMW badge. I contact the dealer and they ask me to scan and send a copy of the packing slip. I do, and after that? Crickets. No replies to my email or phone messages. So finally I send them back. I dig a bit more and find that the BMW Mini Store in Cincinnati has the mats for only $6 more than the other dealer charged. I place my order and they arrive in the original Mini packaging, along with the mat anchors that are supposed to come with the mats(and that were missing from the Cali dealer's shipment).

I usually don't leave negative online reviews unless I'm treated dishonestly(see: Andy Mohr Ford) or the vendor is hopelessly incompetent; in this case hopelessly incompetent is a bit of an understatement- so I'm going to ding them.

suydam

Why not return them through Amazon? It’s a pretty smooth process.

qbrozen

dino001 said:

That is just incorrect. One of those biggest lease advantages over loans has always been risk transfer (for a fee, of course). Leases are automatically GAP insured, so any additional depreciation you have beyond what you're scheduled to pay, or actual cash value vs. assumed depreciation, is covered by the GAP underwriter. Putting money down on lease defeats this

As long as you also apply the same logic to a finance deal, I agree. You can get GAP on a finance deal, too.

Lemme put it this way: if you either prepay a lease in full or put 50% down on a finance, the value the insurance company puts on the vehicle doesn't differ. I'm going to lose money in either scenario if the vehicle is totaled early enough.

graphicguy

@imidazol97 ...I run hot and cold about eBay. On the one hand, I've dealt with some very honest people selling "things" I want at good prices. I've sold some things that people paid immediately (via PayPay) and I shipped immediately, well packaged.

Then, seems like recently, there are those who seem to try to "scam" on eBay. Moreso now than I've noticed in the past.

This is the 3rd time in the last 4 sales I've made on eBay where I was either stiffed (which is why I won't ship before payment), or someone tried to scam me (as with my recent iPhone sale), or someone tries to sell something that they can not deliver.

As you point out, when things go sideways, eBay makes contacting them an exercise in futility. When things go smoothly, it's great!

Personally, I think unless you register a valid credit card with PayPal for payment, I would disallow any purchases on eBay. Once you open up a case with eBay, it takes them forever to intervene, also.

I'd use them more, but don't based on the recent experiences where I was stiffed, and eBay was difficult to work with for a resolution.

@roadburner ....I know the Mini dealer you're talking about (the only one in Cincinnati). It's been a long while since I've done any business with them, but they've always been good to work with.

My local BMW dealer isn't a Mini dealer (as is the one you're referring to), but they've always great to work with, too.

Mr_Shiftright

Yep the Scion xA at least will accommodate two adults and two dogs, no problemo.

imidazol97

I've bought auto parts for maintenance through Ebay and Amazon. I look at the comments in the ratings of sellers on Ebay trying to intuit if they're fake or real. Usually good result for auto parts at good price. Less trouble than rockauto.com

driver100

qbrozen said:

dino001 said:

abacomike said:

Not quite - my monthly payments on the 740i were $384 per month with 5 years remaining on the loan.  So the car was depreciating faster than the value of the payments.  By the end of the loan, the car would be six years old and would be worth $22,500 give or take, if I was lucky.

Look - I leased a car with a huge cap cost reduction to get to $600 a month + tax - something my monthly income could handle, without having to withdraw money from my bank - but will be able to deposit $8200 into my accounts.

So you did have a real estate loan on the 740 BTW, if you had taken the entire equity out, you'd be able to deposit whole 30 grand on your account and supply the difference in payments out of that. You'd have to pay extra interest (money factor) on that amount, which is not totally a chicken fee (about 25-30 bucks, if I get your numbers right). Much better use of that money might have been multiple security deposit (unlike BMW, Mercedes still has it), which would have lowered your interest and you'd get it back at the end of the lease. Admittedly, the monthly payment would have been higher.

As I mentioned the biggest drawback of putting money down on the lease (as opposed a loan), is the depreciation risk in case of a total loss. Leases are automatically GAP insured, so if such a thing happened on zero down lease, the GAP insurance would have picked up any difference between the cash value paid by your car insurance and the remaining lease value, you'd only owe the deductible and kept the remainder of 30 grand in your account. If, on the other hand, the car gets totalled in your current financing structure, you'd likely see a very small fraction of that money back. The reduction is so large that I think it's unlikely you'd see nothing, but the bank would make everything to not to part with the money it already collected from you. And you'll still owe the deductible, as order of payments would be: your insurance at cash value minus deductible, your deductible, whatever remains is covered your cap reduction, fees, then whatever is left - you. None of that matters of course, if you don't have an accident. This is just a risk management exercise.

I think your "annual" rollups are truly over, Mike. Whatever equity you had, you just volunteered to give away. Unless you find another magic way to break the lease without paying penalties and find some more couch money to put down, your next payments for those expensive toys will likely skyrocket to $1500-2000. Or next car you're getting is a Fusion or Focus

He did what he is comfortable with and is happy. Why continue to revisit your opinions on the matter?

Also, as I have said many times before, putting money down on a lease is no different than on a purchase, IMHO. You would lose the depreciation either way in case of total loss

. 

Did you take into account full replacement value insurance. Insurance companies will replace your car with a brand new similar car, if the car is totaled within 3 years and some companies are up to 5 years. I only paid about $60 for that add on and they substituted my 2015 E400 for a 2017 with the same equipment.

iluvmysephia1

Good morning, gentlemen. I'm going to head west in the next couple hours or bag it and go during next Thursday or Friday. I woke up about 3:00AM and immediately started looking at the Rodland Toyota ad display for the 2016 Scion iA selling for only $13,334. It has 28,526 miles on it.

I am a little groggy from the Vicodin but nothing chancy. However, it is a long drive over the mountains. I looked at the long-term forecast and it looks like the snows are going to be less intense starting Monday - Tuesday. I was looking on the WA-DOT traffic cam website - it was 32 degrees and not snowing then - the plows were in that picture working on the road. With those Michelin X-Ice ie3's I feel fine driving in that stuff, though.

I don't know - I might still go. I am in love with that car - this specimen would be ideal because Rodland Toyota is just a fairly short scoot over to visit my sister in Bothell.



I'll keep y'all updated. I have decided against the Subaru Impreza or the 2018 Kia Rio hatch or sedan. Scion loaded way too much stuff into this car for me to pass on buying it. And now's the time - it is my decision in the family and I want this car. I won't listen to violent rebuttals, anyway. I'm a stubborn Norwegian - very stubborn!



Aint' she beautiful? If she's gone next Friday I'll find another one. It's not like there's a big demand for these cars. And stick shifts aren't selling well. All the more better for me. Whoo-hoo-haa-haaaa-haaaa!


Yep the Scion xA at least will accommodate two adults and two dogs, no problemo.

shifty - as a former Scion owner, I salute you!

Mr_Shiftright

Best little car I ever owned in terms of reliability and versatility---just not fast enough and not geared for the highway. The Mini was a way to cure that, but at the cost of reliability. Maybe a GTI is the perfect hatch, I dunno.

It's a challenge if you want only one car to do everything.

Which is probably why I have a 4X4 truck and a motorcycle!

dino001

driver100 said:

Did you take into account full replacement value insurance. Insurance companies will replace your car with a brand new similar car, if the car is totaled within 3 years and some companies are up to 5 years. I only paid about $60 for that add on and they substituted my 2015 E400 for a 2017 with the same equipment.

I came across this option before. I think it was Allstate, who offered it, up to I think 2 years only (or maybe it was three?). It is quite attractive and premium bumps don't look big. I recall asking the agent, if there were any restrictions, and there were. Mostly on the comprehensive coverage side - fire for example, was not covered in the rider, or any condition that could be "arranged" by the driver. I was joking that if your car was totalled by falling tree in a storm, it was covered, but if it caught fire after the tree fell, it would not.

roadburner

suydam said:

Why not return them through Amazon? It’s a pretty smooth process.

That's exactly what I did.

oldfarmer50

Today I was at the dump in my farm van loaded with junk. Been cleaning the place of all the trash accumulated over the years. Van was filthy inside and out from the load. No problem since that's it's purpose.

On the way out I see what at one time must have been a beautiful BMW X5 hauling a trailer filled with garbage, junk and paint buckets. My van looked better.

I guess for some people a car is just an appliance.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

stickguy said:

Key point Dino you missed. He got the Benz he wanted. The rest is just numbers

I didn't miss it at all. I said that much. I quote: "all that counts", "not wrong thing if you can afford it".

If finances were all that mattered we would all drove 3-year-old Corollas and those more affluent would all drive Lexus RX. We obviously don't, including yours truly. But we should not kid ourselves that what we do is financially best, when it's not - that's all I'm saying.

Talking sound financial decisions will get you thrown out of here buddy. Buying ANY car is foolish from an investment standpoint.

Just think how much money we could save eating cat food instead of steak.

So, now the truth comes out. You buy hooties because you like eating steak and here all this time you had us believing that you're a car guy. :@

jmonroe

iluvmysephia1

Best little car I ever owned in terms of reliability and versatility---just not fast enough and not geared for the highway. The Mini was a way to cure that, but at the cost of reliability. Maybe a GTI is the perfect hatch, I dunno.

It's a challenge if you want only one car to do everything.

Which is probably why I have a 4X4 truck and a motorcycle!

Yep - that's just what I'm looking for. Though I am decided on the iA, not the xA. The 2016 Scion iA will open up on the highway a bit better than the xA, don't you think?

Plus, I'm not a speed racer type anyway. I've probably pissed off more people than I can count by now with my "average speed" type driving. I don't want a ticket - I've only had two in my life and, funny thing, I was 16 when I got the first one in south Seattle (lane swerving) and I could've fought it but didn't. The street was Occidental Way I believe - one of those city streets that meanders and snakes around in an industrial area of Seattle. I tried to fight it but the cop wasn't buying it.

The second one was a 45 in a 35 in Seattle, too, IIRC. I just took that ticket and paid it off, too. But those were it - I got 'em outta the way early!

jmonroe

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50"
Moral of the story, get the CarFax before you buy. Other than the mileage fraud was she complaining that a $2k car needed repairs?

Yes, she didn't think a car she just bought should need $1000 worth of repairs. She was very young and didn't realize what "As Is" means. What saved her was when she did get the Carfax report the seller was caught red handed changing the odometer, while he had it in his possession. Although he said he didn't normally sell cars she brought ads that showed he had sold other cars. Another thing in her favor was she texted him that she knew about the odometer being put back and wanted him to rectify, and he completely ignored her.

A lot of people don't understand what "As Is" means. They still think they have some kind of warranty.

Plain and simple, people that dumb are just asking to be taken advantage of.

I'm not saying that is the right way to do business, but c'mon man, learn the language.

jmonroe

jmonroe

abacomike said:

Just got an email from my gastroenterologist’s office - blood test results show “No Hep C Virus Detected”.  I repeat the test in 2 months, then 6 months, and then 1 year.  If results remain as they are now, I will be cured.

This is the first time after taking anti vitals over the past 5 years that 4 weeks after taking the last pill that no virus was detected.  All previous times the virus had returned.  There’s hope now!  YEAH!!!

That's what we wanted to hear. Keep up the good work on the subsequent tests. Study hard, you can do it.

I guess this means you're going to outlive the S450.

jmonroe

qbrozen

driver100 said:

Did you take into account full replacement value insurance. Insurance companies will replace your car with a brand new similar car, if the car is totaled within 3 years and some companies are up to 5 years. I only paid about $60 for that add on and they substituted my 2015 E400 for a 2017 with the same equipment.

Fair point. What do they do if your car is a lease?

qbrozen

answered my own question ... kind of. At least Liberty Mutual and Nationwide won't allow that coverage on a lease. In any case, if you have that coverage and are accident prone, you should always finance.

qbrozen

jmonroe said:

Yes, she didn't think a car she just bought should need $1000 worth of repairs. She was very young and didn't realize what "As Is" means. What saved her was when she did get the Carfax report the seller was caught red handed changing the odometer, while he had it in his possession. Although he said he didn't normally sell cars she brought ads that showed he had sold other cars. Another thing in her favor was she texted him that she knew about the odometer being put back and wanted him to rectify, and he completely ignored her.

A lot of people don't understand what "As Is" means. They still think they have some kind of warranty.

Did they arrest him? Or was that not in the script? ;b

driver100

They didn't arrest him or say they would seek charges. I have seen judges programs where they do report these things.....one was tax evasion and one was for not complying to regulations regarding a daycare. Maybe they have changed the contracts so they can't get the litigants into more trouble than the case they have before them.

I don't think the young lady was stupid for buying the car "as is". She was smart to get the Carfax report and see the seller had changed the mileage. She also brought pictures of other cars he sold online. I would chalk it up to a young lady who didn't know about cars and she made a mistake...but, will learn from it.

roadburner

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50"
Moral of the story, get the CarFax before you buy. Other than the mileage fraud was she complaining that a $2k car needed repairs?

Yes, she didn't think a car she just bought should need $1000 worth of repairs. She was very young and didn't realize what "As Is" means. What saved her was when she did get the Carfax report the seller was caught red handed changing the odometer, while he had it in his possession. Although he said he didn't normally sell cars she brought ads that showed he had sold other cars. Another thing in her favor was she texted him that she knew about the odometer being put back and wanted him to rectify, and he completely ignored her.

A lot of people don't understand what "As Is" means. They still think they have some kind of warranty.

Plain and simple, people that dumb are just asking to be taken advantage of.

I'm not saying that is the right way to do business, but c'mon man, learn the language.

jmonroe

I had dozens of those cases in Small Claims Court(AKA: The Gong Show); the plaintiff bought a car from Billy Bob's Coin Laundry and Quality Used Cars and it now turns out that the car needs significant repairs. Billy Bob or his attorney would come in with an As-Is statement signed by the plaintiff and end of story...
One of my favorite Gong Show plaintiffs was the guy who bought a grungy sled from a local BHPH, drove it for a month, and then sued the mouse house because he thought the car had power steering but had since found out it didn't...

stickguy

so, she got $3,000 back, but I assume she had to also return the car?

jmonroe

stickguy said:

We hired movers last few times. Would never take that on my self (all the carrying), but we did pack ourselves, and would probably do so again. But will price out packing help. My real preference is to get rid of as much stuff as possible. Less to pack, less to move, less cost!

depending on where I go, and how much can thin out, contemplating getting a U haul, and taking advantage of the option to hire people on either end, paid by the hour. Have them load it all up, I drive down, hire different strong backs to help unload. Should be cheaper that way.

It IS cheaper that way and it works.

When we moved back to the Burgh from SC in 1997 that is exactly what I did. There are plenty of younger folks to do the heavy lifting and I took advantage of it. My sons volunteered to do the work but I would not let them do it either but I did let them help Mrs. j and I do the packing. Only one kitchen item was broken (glass tray of some kind) when we unpacked in the Burgh. I blamed Son #1 for that who quickly blamed his younger brother. When I asked him how he knew his brother did it, he got all lawyer-like with me and said, "did you find my prints on that tray"? I guess he learned that in a pre-law course he took when he thought he wanted to be a lawyer.

All we did (Son #1 and I. Son #2 drove the car back with Mrs. j riding as a passenger the whole way) was drive two 26 foot U-Hauls that were loaded by strong backs in SC back to the Burgh and watched some young local strong backs do the unloading.

Man, that is living the good life.

jmonroe

stickguy

exactly my plan.

ab348

suydam said:

Why not return them through Amazon? It’s a pretty smooth process.

Well, let me tell you a story of my experience with that...

Early this year I spotted 2 DVDs on Amazon.ca (the Canadian version) of the 1970s TV show Banacek. I always liked that series and had never seen it offered before. These were official NBC-Universal issues, sealed, and from a seller called "Rarewaves.ca" which seemed to indicate they were a Canadian vendor. The description did not indicate any red flags and the price was right, so I bought them.

A couple of weeks later they arrive. The package was covered with Royal Mail markings - from the U.K. I look at the sealed DVD packages and they are Region 2, made for play on European equipment and not on N.A. gear. I thought I had overlooked that in the description, but I went back and the listing was still up. It said nothing on that score. That's a pretty big oversight. I didn't even open the cases and contacted the seller to return them.

First they suggested that I play them on my computer (which apparently can read these) but why have a big-screen TV if you can't watch them on it? So I insisted, and they gave me a return address in the UK. Return postage on signature-required shipping on that was almost as much as I paid for them in the first place. I therefore spent about $20 on the cheapest return postage I could get and sent them off. Weeks go by, I hear nothing. Finally they claim they never received them. All of my email correspondence was from a different female name each time but all were Russian names of some sort. Finally alarm bells go off.

I file a case with Amazon. This requires filling out a very clunky online report form that looks like it was done in the 1990s and untouched since, scanning and trying to upload copies of correspondence, postal receipts, etc., but it gets done. More time passes. I get some emails from an Amazon rep apparently in Montreal saying that they are investigating. Finally after a few weeks I get a message saying my claim is denied. I appeal and ask why. She responds that I should have sent them back by verified delivery. I respond saying that would have cost $50 to send via that method to the U.K. The next day she responds saying "Oh, I didn't realize it was in the U.K." (how this escaped her I do not know since it was referenced in my correspondence numerous times). Ultimately Amazon (not the seller) credited my CC for the entire amount including my cost to ship back, so they came through in the end. But it took 4 months total and was exceedingly painful.

driver100

iluv....check some of these out....just to compare;
2016 9300 miles $12345



This one has 6000 miles for $14000 AutoTrader

driver100

AUTO TRADER HAS 4 AVAILABLE Black White Red Blue that I found

jmonroe

abacomike said:

fordfool said:

"YOU" have to put yourself in my spot - you partially own (with an emphasis on "partially") a 2017 BMW 740i with 11,400 miles on it. You have a loan with a bank that has a payoff of $21,910 on the BMW. The dealership puts a cash value on the BMW of $56,000 less the payoff of $21,910 leaving you with $34,090 of equity in the car once the loan is paid off by the dealership. Remember, each and every month, your equity is decreasing due to depreciation by about $800.

I would assume that the monthly payment on the BMW loan would be greater than the
monthly depreciation. Otherwise you would never own the car regardless of how many
years payments were made. Therefore equity must be increasing each month. And at the
end of the loan, you owe nothing and the value of the car is your equity.

Not quite - my monthly payments on the 740i were $384 per month with 5 years remaining on the loan.  So the car was depreciating faster than the value of the payments.  By the end of the loan, the car would be six years old and would be worth $22,500 give or take, if I was lucky.

Look - I leased a car with a huge cap cost reduction to get to $600 a month + tax - something my monthly income could handle, without having to withdraw money from my bank - but will be able to deposit $8200 into my accounts.

So now you're an Indian giver. I distinctly heard you say the money was for family members Christmas gifts. :@

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

stickguy said:

Key point Dino you missed. He got the Benz he wanted. The rest is just numbers

I didn't miss it at all. I said that much. I quote: "all that counts", "not wrong thing if you can afford it".

If finances were all that mattered we would all drove 3-year-old Corollas and those more affluent would all drive Lexus RX. We obviously don't, including yours truly. But we should not kid ourselves that what we do is financially best, when it's not - that's all I'm saying.

Talking sound financial decisions will get you thrown out of here buddy. Buying ANY car is foolish from an investment standpoint.

Just think how much money we could save eating cat food instead of steak.

So, now the truth comes out. You buy hooties because you like eating steak and here all this time you had us believing that you're a car guy. :@

jmonroe

Thanks to my wife's finicky cat I have multiple brands of cat food to choose from. The liver bits are superb with a nice rose'.

driver100

AUTO TRADER HAS 4 AVAILABLE Black White Red Blue that I found

stickguy said:

so, she got $3,000 back, but I assume she had to also return the car?

I was expecting that she would have to return the car too. I may have missed something at the beginning but the verdict surprised me too. It says in this synopsis...she was a teenager.

Season 4 Episode 70: Nov 13th 2017
Odometer Rollback Roulette?!; Slumlord or Squatter Victim?
A failed smog check and a possibly rolled-back odometer lead a teen car buyer to sue for damages; a landlord says a problem tenant had to be forcibly removed after injuring herself on the property.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

jmonroe said:

Yes, she didn't think a car she just bought should need $1000 worth of repairs. She was very young and didn't realize what "As Is" means. What saved her was when she did get the Carfax report the seller was caught red handed changing the odometer, while he had it in his possession. Although he said he didn't normally sell cars she brought ads that showed he had sold other cars. Another thing in her favor was she texted him that she knew about the odometer being put back and wanted him to rectify, and he completely ignored her.

A lot of people don't understand what "As Is" means. They still think they have some kind of warranty.

Did they arrest him? Or was that not in the script? ;b

What puzzles me is why didn't she research the guy before she bought? She obviously had him nailed afterwards. She proved him a thief and a perjurer under oath. I guess there's no law against lying to a TV judge.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50"
Moral of the story, get the CarFax before you buy. Other than the mileage fraud was she complaining that a $2k car needed repairs?

Yes, she didn't think a car she just bought should need $1000 worth of repairs. She was very young and didn't realize what "As Is" means. What saved her was when she did get the Carfax report the seller was caught red handed changing the odometer, while he had it in his possession. Although he said he didn't normally sell cars she brought ads that showed he had sold other cars. Another thing in her favor was she texted him that she knew about the odometer being put back and wanted him to rectify, and he completely ignored her.

A lot of people don't understand what "As Is" means. They still think they have some kind of warranty.

Plain and simple, people that dumb are just asking to be taken advantage of.

I'm not saying that is the right way to do business, but c'mon man, learn the language.

jmonroe

I had dozens of those cases in Small Claims Court(AKA: The Gong Show); the plaintiff bought a car from Billy Bob's Coin Laundry and Quality Used Cars and it now turns out that the car needs significant repairs. Billy Bob or his attorney would come in with an As-Is statement signed by the plaintiff and end of story...
One of my favorite Gong Show plaintiffs was the guy who bought a grungy sled from a local BHPH, drove it for a month, and then sued the mouse house because he thought the car had power steering but had since found out it didn't...

But what would you have done if Billy Bob rolled the milage back and lied to you that he was a dealer? I'd really like to know what a real court would do.

roadburner

That's a different matter. The odo statement is a Federal requirement. And I took a dim view of perjury; I had an eviction case where a 75 year old lady claimed she owned the property jointly with her son- she didn't. I almost put her in jail.

jmonroe

roadburner said:

Well, the interview went pretty well. Six people in the conference room with each with 2-3 questions. Pretty low key- the General Counsel asked me a couple of questions and then told me he agreed with my answers. It looks like it all comes down to whether 30 years on the bench trumps a few years of prosecutorial experience. Honestly, I was more nervous when I did the TV interview for my dealership a while back. I was told that any decision is a couple of weeks off. Whatever happens, I'm good with it.

Well, now that it is almost over, you can get back to doing BMW business which is what you like doing and you don't need "good luck" wishes from us guys in here to do that.

If this somehow happens to go the other way, I'm not sure what we should say.

jmonroe

driver100

I distinctly heard you say the money was for family members Christmas gifts. :@

jmonroe

Be careful what you say, JMonroe has a really good memory. I feel sorry for his wife, if she did something wrong 27 years ago he probably still reminds her about it.

driver100

roadburner said:

That's a different matter. The odo statement is a Federal requirement. And I took a dim view of perjury; I had an eviction case where a 75 year old lady claimed she owned the property jointly with her son- she didn't. I almost put her in jail.

I like the judge programs because they have to basically find out who is lying. Sometimes, it is both parties to some degree. But, once someone is caught in a lie most of their credibility has gone.

The judges really hate fraud, that will make someone lose very quickly. Another thing these judges seem to hate is when people come to court, and they are ripping off unemployment, welfare, daycare programs, or any other scam where tax payers have been cheated. I have heard the judges say they will report the incident to the proper authorities, or they have said millions of people are watching....something will probably be done.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

jmonroe said:

Yes, she didn't think a car she just bought should need $1000 worth of repairs. She was very young and didn't realize what "As Is" means. What saved her was when she did get the Carfax report the seller was caught red handed changing the odometer, while he had it in his possession. Although he said he didn't normally sell cars she brought ads that showed he had sold other cars. Another thing in her favor was she texted him that she knew about the odometer being put back and wanted him to rectify, and he completely ignored her.

A lot of people don't understand what "As Is" means. They still think they have some kind of warranty.

Did they arrest him? Or was that not in the script? ;b

What puzzles me is why didn't she research the guy before she bought? She obviously had him nailed afterwards. She proved him a thief and a perjurer under oath. I guess there's no law against lying to a TV judge.

She was a teenager. We are smarter because we have been through similar problems...or, we like cars and we know the difference between no warranty, a warranty, and "sold as is".

She made a huge mistake, probably young and trusting, but, she did her homework and she nailed the fraudster.