Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

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  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,388
    Am on my MacPro laptop and yes, I've pre-paid my dues through 2019 at this juncture! The only way I got in here now was someone just posted and I got that black notification at the bottom left of my screen. Seriously, besides my banking sites, this one is my favorite bar none, and has been since 2001. Anyways, am quite distressed here without my Forums and I need some help getting them back!!! Maybe coming in as a new member might be the answer, but just not sure what to do at this juncture. Help me hosts!!! thanks all. The Sad Sandman :(:'(B)
    Sandy, I’m on my iPhone and no problems here.  Also tried my computer (PC) and no problems on that.  Probably an anomaly or it could be your cookies.  Try clearing your cookies and see if that helps.  Edmunds has loads of advertising which loads computers up with tracking cookies.

    2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    I wasn't sure what ADM meant....thought it was like DOC. So I looked up a definition;

    "ADM" or "ADP" Charges (Additional Dealer Markup)
    Bogus charges added by greedy dealers. It means "Additional Dealer Markup" or "Additional Dealer Profit," and appears on a sticker next to manufacturer's MSRP sticker. I call it Arrogant Dealer Markup. ADM is an artificial buffer to bargain down the price. If ADM is $1,000 and you talk them down $800, you still paid MSRP plus $200 for the car! If you see this toxic waste, have them nix it. One buyer of a Honda Civic got the dealer to drop a $1,995 ADM!

    If it was me I'd walk in there, offer them the $99k, tell them to eat their ADM charges......and then walk away, that would be fun, unless they said YES!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,472
    Driver, being a devils advocate here, but you are trying to have it both ways. If MSRP is so sacrosanct, you should never try to pay less than that amount. Because if it is fine for you to offer less, why can't the dealer ask for more? All MSRP is a number that the maker made up to slap on the sticker.

    sales price is always whatever the market dictates it should be.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,777
    Thanks for the replies on my question regarding starting out of my kids with investing.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    suydam said:
    HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP Is anyone else having problems getting into the Forums? For a second day, I hit my "Bookmarks" and end up with a blank page!! Don't understand what's wrong but could someone please let Michael or any of the other hosts know that I'm having this issue as I don't know how else to get in touch. Thank you to whomever can get this message sent to any host for some help here. My email address is "sandman6472@gmail.com" if they need to get a hold of me. Not sure how I got in here now but it only shows page 2087, from 7:07pm and nothing else. I miss my Edmunds Forums!!! PLEASE HELP ME GET THEM BACK!!!! The Missing Sandman :s:'(:( :@ B)
    Lately it looks blank, but if you scroll WAY down — like half a page worth — there everything is. Very annoying.
    I was having that issue too, I accidently switched to the full site and I really had to work to get back to the mobile site. 

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    driver100 said:
    I wasn't sure what ADM meant....thought it was like DOC. So I looked up a definition; "ADM" or "ADP" Charges (Additional Dealer Markup) Bogus charges added by greedy dealers. It means "Additional Dealer Markup" or "Additional Dealer Profit," and appears on a sticker next to manufacturer's MSRP sticker. I call it Arrogant Dealer Markup. ADM is an artificial buffer to bargain down the price. If ADM is $1,000 and you talk them down $800, you still paid MSRP plus $200 for the car! If you see this toxic waste, have them nix it. One buyer of a Honda Civic got the dealer to drop a $1,995 ADM! If it was me I'd walk in there, offer them the $99k, tell them to eat their ADM charges......and then walk away, that would be fun, unless they said YES!
    Sometimes it's a bogus charge other times its just adjusting the price to match market demands. It's basic supply and demand if demand is higher than supply than ADM can be liget. 

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,050
    My boss and one of my direct reports decided to go to the parade.   I’m not sure how they made out.   

    I told them their best bet was to take an Uber to the Lindenwold train station and hope for the best.   My reasoning was that that station is the furthest away and you’d have the best chance getting a seat on the train.  I’m sure the closer stations to the city were completely full anytime after 7 AM.  Heck they are pretty darn busy just on work days.  

    As much as I love Football and the Eagles I wouldn’t do the parade just not my thing.  I did stream it from my phone while working yesterday, and I certainly wasn’t the only one.  At least our networking team aren’t DHs and didn’t block it! 

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    stickguy said:

    Driver, being a devils advocate here, but you are trying to have it both ways. If MSRP is so sacrosanct, you should never try to pay less than that amount. Because if it is fine for you to offer less, why can't the dealer ask for more? All MSRP is a number that the maker made up to slap on the sticker.

    sales price is always whatever the market dictates it should be.

    Stick...if you are going to play devil's advocate I am going to play Double Devil's Advocate. The car is sold with a MSRP which should be it's fair market price. Now, I forget what my point was so, yeh, if the dealer can get more for it....then go for it.

    Actually, his price isn't too bad even with the ADM. This page shows 3 for sale all at MSRP, check the 3rd one down, he wants more than double over MSRP for a GT Premium!
    MUSTANG

    $96,720MSRP $43,320

    Although I agree it is a free market system, charge what the market will bear, I also think the article I quoted is true too...Bogus charges added by greedy dealers, and I would have to really want a car badly to pay that premium.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • karhill1karhill1 Member Posts: 165
    ADM is more honest than those document fees.

    At least with ADM, the dealer is being honest about the intent. Unlike those doc fees which are absolutely fake and designed to confuse customers.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,472
    T, what they actually did was run every train express. So only 1 stop, at the end. I have never seen parked cars overflow the lots like that.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,335
    @sandman_6472 , last night I tried the site on my iPad and got the same blank screen. If I scrolled down a page or two everything was there through. Either a problem with the Vanilla software here or a problem with some update Apple pushed out.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,250

    HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP

    Is anyone else having problems getting into the Forums? For a second day, I hit my "Bookmarks" and end up with a blank page!! Don't understand what's wrong but could someone please let Michael or any of the other hosts know that I'm having this issue as I don't know how else to get in touch.
    Thank you to whomever can get this message sent to any host for some help here. My email address is "sandman6472@gmail.com" if they need to get a hold of me. Not sure how I got in here now but it only shows page 2087, from 7:07pm and nothing else. I miss my Edmunds Forums!!!

    PLEASE HELP ME GET THEM BACK!!!!

    The Missing Sandman :s:'(:( :@ B)

    I've had problems with this site since they went to the new system over a year ago. .

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,130

    HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP

    Is anyone else having problems getting into the Forums? For a second day, I hit my "Bookmarks" and end up with a blank page!! Don't understand what's wrong but could someone please let Michael or any of the other hosts know that I'm having this issue as I don't know how else to get in touch.
    Thank you to whomever can get this message sent to any host for some help here. My email address is "sandman6472@gmail.com" if they need to get a hold of me. Not sure how I got in here now but it only shows page 2087, from 7:07pm and nothing else. I miss my Edmunds Forums!!!

    PLEASE HELP ME GET THEM BACK!!!!

    The Missing Sandman :s:'(:( :@ B)

    Yeah....the forums have become quite “wonky”. Not sure what’s changed. I would suggest a total refurb of their code as it’s been a bit off kilter for a while now.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,688
    I read the forums in Chrome on my laptops with XP and Win10 as well as my Android Chrome phone when at lunch...

    I rarely have seen a problem with how the pages load.

    Is it a problem specific to the Apple OS?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Member Posts: 9,847
    No issues with iOS for me or Chrome. I use my iPhone with Safari most of the time when I'm not working and my Surface Pro 4 with Windows 10 using Chrome when I'm working.
    2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 5,078
    For me the problem only shows up on my iPad. iPhone interface is fine. Everything is there, you just have to scroll down a bunch. Started a few days ago.
    '24 Kia Sportage PHEV
    '24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 263,370
    @driver100 - since we're talking about acronyms, let's make sure we understand MSRP:

    Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price

    Suggested - not mandated.

    If the car isn't popular you can buy it for a discount. If the car is popular, then the dealer can ask for, and often get, above the sticker price.

    Edmunds Price Checker
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    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige

  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,582
    suydam said:

    For me the problem only shows up on my iPad. iPhone interface is fine. Everything is there, you just have to scroll down a bunch. Started a few days ago.

    Same. I do not have this problem when I'm on a non-Apple device.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,472
    Same. Just my iPad is off. But I never log in from my phone. Windows laptop is fine

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Member Posts: 9,847
    Another off topic question - do any of you have any experience with your kids getting ear tubes put in to mitigate ear infections? Sam has had his 5th ear infection (with associated antibiotics) and finally was sent to the ENT. ENT wants to put tubes in to drain the fluid that is building up.
    2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,250

    O F, have been with Fidelity for many many years and have done pretty good. Started out with Vanguard back in the early 80's and parked our condo down payment there until we needed it some years later. Wife's also in Fidelity and some others but not to sure since she's very closed mouthed about "her investments". But since I'm back working again, have been adding to the IRA's and not withdrawing anything until I officially retire for the second time. To be totally honest, I enjoy this Hertz gig, a lot!! No word from Enterprise but think it's G-d's will that I stay put where I'm at.
    When you get a chance, please let me know about work as it seems pretty interesting and something I wish I could do again!!
    Still not getting much in the Forums for some reason!!

    The Sad Sandman :(:sB)

    My wife let's me handle the investments while she manages the monthly bills. I just hand over my pension check which she combines with hers. We now take all investment dividends directly for extra income. She gets hers I get mine. I don't know what she does with hers but she knows that mine will go for something car related.

    As to work it's great. Two days a week. Long trips, short hops, everything. The office I work for is mainly involved with cars going out of service so yesterday we delivered units to dealers on opposite ends of the state. Sometimes we deliver new units to different rental locations and take units back to the he base.half the time we're being chauffeured back by the chase vehicle so it's not too tiring. It's all old men so there's a bit of macho posturing but all in good fun.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,250

    Another off topic question - do any of you have any experience with your kids getting ear tubes put in to mitigate ear infections? Sam has had his 5th ear infection (with associated antibiotics) and finally was sent to the ENT. ENT wants to put tubes in to drain the fluid that is building up.

    I hear it's quite common since chronic infections can have an impact on hearing. But this advice is coming from a car transporter so I would get a second opinion from a professional.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,050

    Another off topic question - do any of you have any experience with your kids getting ear tubes put in to mitigate ear infections? Sam has had his 5th ear infection (with associated antibiotics) and finally was sent to the ENT. ENT wants to put tubes in to drain the fluid that is building up.

    Some docs really run to the tubes.... My kids had several infections then once they got a little older they just stopped. I'd get a second opinion and see if as he gets a little older they stop. My daughter is now two and she hasn't had one since about 18 months or so.

    The problem is the canals in the ears are so small the fluid (worse when they have a cold) doesn't drain and then gets infected. Once they get bigger the canals get bigger as well and many times the infections stop.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Member Posts: 9,847
    tjc78 said:


    Some docs really run to the tubes.... My kids had several infections then once they got a little older they just stopped. I'd get a second opinion and see if as he gets a little older they stop. My daughter is now two and she hasn't had one since about 18 months or so.

    The problem is the canals in the ears are so small the fluid (worse when they have a cold) doesn't drain and then gets infected. Once they get bigger the canals get bigger as well and many times the infections stop.

    Thanks, @tjc78. I'm torn, but his body is really not tolerating all of the antibiotics well and he seems to last about a week or two before another one starts. Our Pediatrician wasn't super excited at the thought of tubes, but after this 5th one changed her tune.
    2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 5,078

    Another off topic question - do any of you have any experience with your kids getting ear tubes put in to mitigate ear infections? Sam has had his 5th ear infection (with associated antibiotics) and finally was sent to the ENT. ENT wants to put tubes in to drain the fluid that is building up.

    We did it with our oldest child, maybe 35 years ago now! It worked wonders. The tubes eventually fall out on their own as they grow. The other two kids did not have the problem.
    '24 Kia Sportage PHEV
    '24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,751
    suydam said:
    Another off topic question - do any of you have any experience with your kids getting ear tubes put in to mitigate ear infections? Sam has had his 5th ear infection (with associated antibiotics) and finally was sent to the ENT. ENT wants to put tubes in to drain the fluid that is building up.
    We did it with our oldest child, maybe 35 years ago now! It worked wonders. The tubes eventually fall out on their own as they grow. The other two kids did not have the problem.
    Same here. Although far more recent. Worst part was when he woke up from the anesthesia. He just started WAILING. After about 10 mins, they decided they did not need to wait the 30 or so mins to see if he was OK and pushed us out the door. He was fine the minute we got out of there. 

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    Michaell said:

    @driver100 - since we're talking about acronyms, let's make sure we understand MSRP:

    Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price

    Suggested - not mandated.

    If the car isn't popular you can buy it for a discount. If the car is popular, then the dealer can ask for, and often get, above the sticker price.

    Good point. But, MSRP should give you a fair idea of what value the car should be worth. If GM priced an Impala at the same price as a Cadillac we wouldn't think the price was reasonable. The MSRP isn't just a made up number, it should accurately reflect what the manufacturer "expects" to be paid for the car. The important word being "EXPECTS", and in the case of the Mustang the manufacturer values the car at $99k. The dealer thinks he can force someone to pay him $21k extra.....it is his call, nothing illegal or immoral, just not the way I like to do business.

    I do think there is some leeway though.........a $5k or $10k premium may be in bounds for a $100k car, but $21k is excessive.......and just IMO.

    My own business model would say, if you have an item that is in demand, you are entitled to make extra profit on it.......but, don't get greedy. Customers come back to you if you treat them well.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989

    Another off topic question - do any of you have any experience with your kids getting ear tubes put in to mitigate ear infections? Sam has had his 5th ear infection (with associated antibiotics) and finally was sent to the ENT. ENT wants to put tubes in to drain the fluid that is building up.

    Son #1 got them when he was around 4 and they worked even though one fell out early, about 2 months after the installation, and was installed again and that time they stayed in for a little more than a year IIRC. Fortunately Son #2 didn't need them.

    Fast forward to when Son #1 had his first Son. When he was around 5 he was still getting a lot of ear infections and my Son thought they were finally going to tube him too but they decided to take his tonsils out and that worked for him.

    If it were me, I would get a couple opinions as to what is best for Sam.

    Good luck.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 263,370
    driver100 said:

    Michaell said:

    @driver100 - since we're talking about acronyms, let's make sure we understand MSRP:

    Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price

    Suggested - not mandated.

    If the car isn't popular you can buy it for a discount. If the car is popular, then the dealer can ask for, and often get, above the sticker price.

    Good point. But, MSRP should give you a fair idea of what value the car should be worth. If GM priced an Impala at the same price as a Cadillac we wouldn't think the price was reasonable. The MSRP isn't just a made up number, it should accurately reflect what the manufacturer "expects" to be paid for the car. The important word being "EXPECTS", and in the case of the Mustang the manufacturer values the car at $99k. The dealer thinks he can force someone to pay him $21k extra.....it is his call, nothing illegal or immoral, just not the way I like to do business.

    I do think there is some leeway though.........a $5k or $10k premium may be in bounds for a $100k car, but $21k is excessive.......and just IMO.

    My own business model would say, if you have an item that is in demand, you are entitled to make extra profit on it.......but, don't get greedy. Customers come back to you if you treat them well.
    Let's clarify something else ... the price on the car isn't what GM, or FCA, or VAG will get when the car is sold. The manufacturer has already collected their money from the dealer, usually through a loan called "floorplan". When the dealer sells the car, they take that money and use it to pay off that loan.

    That's why you'll get bigger discounts on cars that have been sitting on the lot longer - that "floorplan" loan accrues interest.

    I'm sure everybody has a limit as to what constitutes reasonable profit and what constitutes greed. Some folks have to be 'first on the block' to have the latest and greatest, and are willing to pay accordingly.

    I never look at MSRP as "value" for the money. Is a $60K BMW twice as good of a car as a $30K Honda?

    It's called a free market, for a reason. Or, as @Mr_Shiftright says, it's the dealers 1st Amendment rights to ask whatever they want for a particular car.

    Which is why that Mustang you saw has celebrated multiple birthdays at the dealer.

    Edmunds Price Checker
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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,688

    Another off topic question - do any of you have any experience with your kids getting ear tubes put in to mitigate ear infections? Sam has had his 5th ear infection (with associated antibiotics) and finally was sent to the ENT. ENT wants to put tubes in to drain the fluid that is building up.

    Mine is working just fine in my left ear. After a week my twinges of pain were gone in that ear. And my ear/throat has stayed clear from last winter through this one, so far. ENT said he does at least one adult's ear/s with tube each day.

    Our son didn't have tubes, but he did have a few ear infections at a low level. They cleared with mild antibiotics and decongestants. Godson we cared for had them put in. They worked for him. Came out before a year was up on their own.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,472
    my son (going on 27 now) went through a winter when he was little of getting one ear infection after another. With the last one, doc said one more and he would need tubes. thankfully it was the end of winter, and they cleared up for the season. And after that, he just never got another one (or not for a while and rarely), so dodged the tubes entirely.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,582
    edited February 2018
    BTW, my Apple (iPad) glitch on these Forums is gone.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,370

    Another off topic question - do any of you have any experience with your kids getting ear tubes put in to mitigate ear infections? Sam has had his 5th ear infection (with associated antibiotics) and finally was sent to the ENT. ENT wants to put tubes in to drain the fluid that is building up.

    My son slept through the night exactly once his first sixteen months; finally our insurance paid for tubes and one week later he was sleeping through the night.
    Do it.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 5,078
    carnaught said:

    BTW, my Apple (iPad) clitch on these Forums is gone.

    Yes, fixed for me too.
    '24 Kia Sportage PHEV
    '24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
  • 28firefighter28firefighter Member Posts: 9,847
    We are very lucky that Sam is a good sleeper throughout the night. But the ear infections are pretty clearly affecting his ability to balance when he walks. Every time it clears up, seemingly overnight, his walking improves. As soon as they come back, we're back to looking like a college freshman on Saturday night....
    2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,688
    edited February 2018

    We are very lucky that Sam is a good sleeper throughout the night. But the ear infections are pretty clearly affecting his ability to balance when he walks. Every time it clears up, seemingly overnight, his walking improves. As soon as they come back, we're back to looking like a college freshman on Saturday night....

    Tubes. It's affecting developmental steps.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Member Posts: 9,847
    We have a couple of weeks before the procedure, so I am going to get a second opinion - but we are leaning towards the tubes. Thanks for the input everyone!
    2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Michaell said:

    @driver100 - since we're talking about acronyms, let's make sure we understand MSRP:

    Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price
    Suggested - not mandated.
    If the car isn't popular you can buy it for a discount. If the car is popular, then the dealer can ask for, and often get, above the sticker price.

    I agree, there is no reason to get angry. Just shrug it (laugh it, dismiss) off and walk away, make dealer change it, or on rare occasion pay it if you just "have to have it now" and there is no other way. People sometimes think of car pricing in terms of some kind of entitlement or social justice issue. I actually used to do that, too. Now, I just shrug.

    There are many other behaviors in the industry that are truly harmful and may need to be better regulated by the state, such misleading on financing arrangements, saying price is X and then suddenly sneaking Y into the contract, improper handling of warranty issues, etc. Anything that is related to a salesman, or a manager making an actual false statements that lead to harmful choices, could qualify. Dealer saying "I want more" is not one of those things.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 263,370
    There was an article (op-ed?) on TTAC this past week about the CPFC and the suggestion that the 'buy rate' of a loan be disclosed on the dealership paperwork.

    That way, people would know how much the loan is being marked up.

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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    edited February 2018
    Michaell said:


    I'm sure everybody has a limit as to what constitutes reasonable profit and what constitutes greed.

    It's even more funny - same people will fight dealer's unreasonable (in their opinion) profit and then not even blink at groceries, an electronic device, piece of software, furniture, or jewelry sold at markups that dealers could only dream of. Argument being that those are much smaller prices, so dollars lost are not big, to which I say how many of those one buys cumulatively vs. the car.

    Then I also know some people completely convinced that vehicles cost about couple of thousand bucks to make and the rest is profit. I guess you can't cure those.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    abacomike said:



    abacomike said:

    Been running the AC at home and in the car lately.

    Now that really makes me feel bad.


    Imid, it is what it is!  Highs are in the mid 80’s and lows in the low to mid 70’s at night.  Very balmy for this time of year.  Sorry, but I keep the thermostat in the condo at 76 by day and 74 at night.  During the summer months, I keep it set at 77 days and 75-76 at night.

    Wow you like it WARM! I would be choking.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited February 2018

    Another off topic question - do any of you have any experience with your kids getting ear tubes put in to mitigate ear infections? Sam has had his 5th ear infection (with associated antibiotics) and finally was sent to the ENT. ENT wants to put tubes in to drain the fluid that is building up.

    Be careful.our son went through this too but he finally outgrew his ear infections.

    One doctor wanted to put in tubes but another strongly recommended against doing so unless the infections got REALLY bad! I forget now what the negatives were but we dug our heels in and said no. Happy we did!

    When I was in elementry school taking our tonsils was the thing to do but my mother resisted and I still have them today. When others get colds and the flu I usually don't.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,250
    driver100 said:

    Michaell said:

    @driver100 - since we're talking about acronyms, let's make sure we understand MSRP:

    Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price

    Suggested - not mandated.

    If the car isn't popular you can buy it for a discount. If the car is popular, then the dealer can ask for, and often get, above the sticker price.

    Good point. But, MSRP should give you a fair idea of what value the car should be worth. If GM priced an Impala at the same price as a Cadillac we wouldn't think the price was reasonable. The MSRP isn't just a made up number, it should accurately reflect what the manufacturer "expects" to be paid for the car. The important word being "EXPECTS", and in the case of the Mustang the manufacturer values the car at $99k. The dealer thinks he can force someone to pay him $21k extra.....it is his call, nothing illegal or immoral, just not the way I like to do business.

    I do think there is some leeway though.........a $5k or $10k premium may be in bounds for a $100k car, but $21k is excessive.......and just IMO.

    My own business model would say, if you have an item that is in demand, you are entitled to make extra profit on it.......but, don't get greedy. Customers come back to you if you treat them well.
    That new hopped up Civic has an ADM of $10,000 on a $34k car. Pretty steep.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    Michaell said:

    driver100 said:

    Michaell said:

    @driver100 - since we're talking about acronyms, let's make sure we understand MSRP:

    Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price

    Suggested - not mandated.

    If the car isn't popular you can buy it for a discount. If the car is popular, then the dealer can ask for, and often get, above the sticker price.

    Good point. But, MSRP should give you a fair idea of what value the car should be worth. If GM priced an Impala at the same price as a Cadillac we wouldn't think the price was reasonable. The MSRP isn't just a made up number, it should accurately reflect what the manufacturer "expects" to be paid for the car. The important word being "EXPECTS", and in the case of the Mustang the manufacturer values the car at $99k. The dealer thinks he can force someone to pay him $21k extra.....it is his call, nothing illegal or immoral, just not the way I like to do business.

    I do think there is some leeway though.........a $5k or $10k premium may be in bounds for a $100k car, but $21k is excessive.......and just IMO.

    My own business model would say, if you have an item that is in demand, you are entitled to make extra profit on it.......but, don't get greedy. Customers come back to you if you treat them well.

    I never look at MSRP as "value" for the money. Is a $60K BMW twice as good of a car as a $30K Honda?

    It's called a free market, for a reason. Or, as @Mr_Shiftright says, it's the dealers 1st Amendment rights to ask whatever they want for a particular car.

    Which is why that Mustang you saw has celebrated multiple birthdays at the dealer.
    The manufacturer produces a car......adds in the gross profit, and sells the car to the dealer....based on what the producer thinks is a reasonable MSRP. Manufacturer may want a 10% or 20% profit.......varies from car to car.

    A $60k BMW may be worth more than double of a $30k Honda....certain costs are fixed. The cost of a plant, labor, advertising, designers etc. The extra costs go into better and more materials, more engineering, more electronics etc. But, the end profit margin may be about the same percentage wise......but, larger profit on more expensive car in actual dollars.

    I have seen a small percentage of business people (my SIL is one, and he has an MBA which I find hard to believe), who think if they can take advantage of someone, they come the winner. I find that seldom works, if you both come out the winner you gain a possible loyal customer who will tell others. If you get greedy, you end up with a car sitting on your lot........depreciating every week.

    I think we agree, a dealer can price the car however he likes, I don't think it is smart marketing and I don't think it is a way to build your business. It is like the stock market, "Bulls make money, bears make money, pigs get slaughtered"



    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    One other thing I remembered. When I bought my 2008 BMW 328 hardtop convertible I ordered it in August for November. The dealer was allotted 2 a month, 2 in October were sold and one in November was sold. I got the last one allotted for November, but, the dealer wouldn't give me a discount saying they would sell it for full price anyway. Fair enough, I to this day question whether that was true, but, it has the sound of truth behind it. But, I don't think I would have paid more than list price for the car.........I would check elsewhere first. It would be too upsetting to be taken advantage of..............and I haven't bought another car from that dealer.



    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    RE: Tubes in the ears of children.

    WebMD is a good place to get good basic medical information.
    PUTTING TUBES IN CHILDS EARS

    But this article says it is BETTER TO WAIT BEFORE INSERTING TUBES

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,335
    dino001 said:


    It's even more funny - same people will fight dealer's unreasonable (in their opinion) profit and then not even blink at groceries, an electronic device, piece of software, furniture, or jewelry sold at markups that dealers could only dream of. Argument being that those are much smaller prices, so dollars lost are not big, to which I say how many of those one buys cumulatively vs. the car.

    Here's one for you.



    That light bulb is the size of a small old-style vacuum tube, about 2" long. It is used as one of the two countertop lights on the underside of my Frigidaire over-the-range microwave. Last night one of mine blew. In looking up the type of bulb I discovered that it is not a common size or type and you could forget about finding it at places like Home Depot around here. But appliance parts houses have it. So today I went to the biggest one nearby. They had it in stock - with taxes, $22 CDN out the door. The one I got was in a GE Appliances package but was identical, I would guess a lot of those microwaves come out of the same factory with different brand names on them.

    So what would you expect the markup was on a Made-in-China $22 light bulb?

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,688
    edited February 2018
    $22. !!!!!

    My one bulb on the underside of my Whirlpool over-the-range microwave blew last week. I found the bulb was about $3.50 at repairclinic.com which indexes appliances and their parts really well for parts finding.

    The bulb was 40W. I wanted a replacement that was LED. I searched online and found one with the same 17mm base and 40W equivalent but it uses 4 W for $2.50 or so and free shipping on Ebay. But it was in Bellvue WA. Waited a few days...

    Perfect. Slightly whiter color (3000 deg. Kelvin) and does dim slightly like the original bulb did on the second click of the switch (it's a nondimmable LED).

    Now I have a light I can leave on without using lots of power to give light to the kitchen without running the electric bill up. I was surprised the original bulb was 40W.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,335
    I found my bulb online at Repairclinic - $16.21 USD.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    carnaught said:

    BTW, my Apple (iPad) glitch on these Forums is gone.

    I did that :p
This discussion has been closed.