Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

stickguy

Tesla did about 105K units last year, so about that.

That Volvo number, that must be worldwide though, right? Not US?

driver100

graphicguy said:

Just heard Jeremy Clarkson say on “The Grand Tour” that Tesla is about to surpass Volvo. Don’t know if that’s for unit sales or revenue, though. BTW....he really liked the Tesla X SUV (except for the price).

Probably debt load.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

Tesla did about 105K units last year, so about that. That Volvo number, that must be worldwide though, right? Not US?

I'm sure

stickguy

watch HGTV too. It seems that most of the house rehab shows (especially earlier on) all came out of Canada too. I got to be real familiar with the Toronto real estate market at one point!

oldfarmer50

OH oh, I think I'm becoming a Ford guy. Scroll down to the video at the bottom. Tell me if you would take the car or the girl.

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/ford/ford-mustang-bullitt-2019-revealed-in-pictures-specs-prices/

ab348

He actually seemed to like the Model X. The bit with the lawyers was almost funny.

tjc78

@abacomike

Cool rundown on how a dealership orders their inventory. I’ve probably told this story before, but right around the time I got my 2012 LaCrosse I was looking at a loaded up new generation Ford Taurus. The car was sharp ... and had a 40k sticker.

I was driving wife was in the passenger seat and salesman was in the back. I see my wife looking for a button or something. All of sudden she’s like “where is the button for the heated seats?”

Salesman explains where it should be and she says it’s not there. He seemed confused but by this time I’m pulling back into the dealer.

We scour the window sticker and low and behold someone messed up and ordered a very highly optioned car lacking heated seats. He joked. “someone’s in trouble”. I told him that car is saleproof without them at that price point. He agreed and said that most likely it would end up with dealer added seats if it didn’t sell.

oldfarmer50

I've driven a few cars with heated seats at work and they're nice for the first 5 minutes but after that I'm searching for the button to turn them off. Lack of them wouldn't be a deal breaker for me although I can see they would be expected on a high end model.

abacomike

oldfarmer50 said:

I've driven a few cars with heated seats at work and they're nice for the first 5 minutes but after that I'm searching for the button to turn them off. Lack of them wouldn't be a deal breaker for me although I can see they would be expected on a high end model.

There are usually three (3) selectable levels of heat for heated seats.  It is recommended that you start with high and then switch to low when the hearing level reaches a desirable levels.

abacomike

tjc78 said:

@abacomike Cool rundown on how a dealership orders their inventory. I’ve probably told this story before, but right around the time I got my 2012 LaCrosse I was looking at a loaded up new generation Ford Taurus. The car was sharp ... and had a 40k sticker. I was driving wife was in the passenger seat and salesman was in the back. I see my wife looking for a button or something. All of sudden she’s like “where is the button for the heated seats?” Salesman explains where it should be and she says it’s not there. He seemed confused but by this time I’m pulling back into the dealer. We scour the window sticker and low and behold someone messed up and ordered a very highly optioned car lacking heated seats. He joked. “someone’s in trouble”. I told him that car is saleproof without them at that price point. He agreed and said that most likely it would end up with dealer added seats if it didn’t sell.

No dealer in it’s right mind would spend a fortune to upgrade seats to heated seats.  They would ship the car to a dealer in a southern state - most it could cost would be $500-$750.  Much less than pulling out seats and adding heated seats.  Think about it!  The salesman was BS-ing you.

houdini1

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I've driven a few cars with heated seats at work and they're nice for the first 5 minutes but after that I'm searching for the button to turn them off. Lack of them wouldn't be a deal breaker for me although I can see they would be expected on a high end model.

There are usually three (3) selectable levels of heat for heated seats.  It is recommended that you start with high and then switch to low when the hearing level reaches a desirable levels.

My car has an "auto" setting for the seat warmers that does exactly that.

explorerx4

I usually put the seat warmers on for a few minutes until I start warming the seat.

driver100

tjc78 said:

@abacomike

We scour the window sticker and low and behold someone messed up and ordered a very highly optioned car lacking heated seats. He joked. “someone’s in trouble”. I told him that car is saleproof without them at that price point. He agreed and said that most likely it would end up with dealer added seats if it didn’t sell.

Easy, just switch the car for a Florida car.

ab348

stickguy said:

watch HGTV too. It seems that most of the house rehab shows (especially earlier on) all came out of Canada too. I got to be real familiar with the Toronto real estate market at one point!

Just like with car-related TV shows, there are good ones and bad ones depending on how much manufactured drama and replay/recap stuff they use in an episode. Our film production business up here is heavily subsidized by governments so that explains why so many of those kind of home reno shows are done here. Mike Holmes, Scott MacGillvray, and Brian Baeumler are some of the big names up here in that business. I like some of those shows in reasonably sized doses. The channels we get here are Canadian versions of HGTV and DIY which also carry some of the American shows (and rerun them incessantly), and there isn't a whole lot of difference except some of the US shows can be pretty hokey (Texas Flip & Move anyone?) which I see less of on the Canadian productions.

One of my favorite shows these days is Restored, out of the Reverside/Redlands area of SoCal, though they do some annoying editing of the shows with a lot of teasers.

driver100

stickguy said:

watch HGTV too. It seems that most of the house rehab shows (especially earlier on) all came out of Canada too. I got to be real familiar with the Toronto real estate market at one point!

I think those house rebuild programs are good time fillers. They seem to take place in Toronto....where the average house costs about $1 million or in Vancouver, where it is even more.

stickguy

I only ordered a car once. Back around 2001, I almost got a 525i BMW (before I chickened out due to the price). But, I wanted a stick, and they were not common even then. So, the salesguy just pulled out their allocation spreadsheet. Listed the build week, and how many of which model they were assigned. Basically had to for forward looking for the next 5 series slot that was not spoken for (I think it was maybe a month?) Then just a case of picking what I wanted for color and options, they wrote it down, and put that through. If you don't end up taking it, just becomes inventory. And if they hit the last day to lock it in, any open spots just get specced out by the dealer.

roadburner

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I've driven a few cars with heated seats at work and they're nice for the first 5 minutes but after that I'm searching for the button to turn them off. Lack of them wouldn't be a deal breaker for me although I can see they would be expected on a high end model.

There are usually three (3) selectable levels of heat for heated seats.  It is recommended that you start with high and then switch to low when the hearing level reaches a desirable levels.

The seats in the Clubman get really hot at their highest setting; they are the only seats I have to dial back after a few minutes.

stickguy

I use the heated seats on occasion. And did use the heated steering wheel when I had one. But neither item is close to a deal breaker. Nice, yes. Required, no.

explorerx4

My truck sits outside, so heated seats appreciated and I can't see myself buy in a vehicle without them.
Also have cooled seats but I never use them, it feels strange.

driver100

roadburner said:

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I've driven a few cars with heated seats at work and they're nice for the first 5 minutes but after that I'm searching for the button to turn them off. Lack of them wouldn't be a deal breaker for me although I can see they would be expected on a high end model.

There are usually three (3) selectable levels of heat for heated seats.  It is recommended that you start with high and then switch to low when the hearing level reaches a desirable levels.

The seats in the Clubman get really hot at their highest setting; they are the only seats I have to dial back after a few minutes.

Wonder if anyone has ever sued for 3rd degree burns? I am sure it has happened.

28firefighter

Back before I changed jobs I spent a great deal of time in Indiana during the summer months for work. Incredibly hot and humid. I purposely rented an Explorer Limited because it had vented seats. 

isellhondas

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

One other thing I remembered. When I bought my 2008 BMW 328 hardtop convertible I ordered it in August for November. The dealer was allotted 2 a month, 2 in October were sold and one in November was sold. I got the last one allotted for November, but, the dealer wouldn't give me a discount saying they would sell it for full price anyway. Fair enough, I to this day question whether that was true, but, it has the sound of truth behind it. But, I don't think I would have paid more than list price for the car.........I would check elsewhere first. It would be too upsetting to be taken advantage of..............and I haven't bought another car from that dealer.

We always tell folks shopping for BMW's to target 7% off sticker, before applying any available incentives.

But, Canada is a different market, so those guidelines may not apply.

I will suggest that an ordered car isn't going to be discounted as much by the dealer. Why? Because of that "floorplan" loan that the dealer took out to buy the car to begin with. If the dealer knows it's going to be sold within a day or two of arriving, that loan will be paid back that much quicker.

That's something I never understood. Why a higher price when the loan is paid right off? Doesn't that save the dealer some interest payments?

Or am I misunderstanding the floor plan system?

A Floor Plan is the financing of a new car dealer’s inventory.  It is usually financed through a fairly large financial institution such as Wells Fargo, Chase, etc.  Sometimes, a vehicle manufacturer finances a dealer’s inventory, especially large volume dealerships.  The dealer pays interest on the loan but does not usually pay the bank any principal.  The interest rate is variable and tied to market funds.

Ordered vehicles generally are not discounted as much as vehicles in stock because of delayed final sales - 3-8 weeks.  Selling a car in stock does not necessarily mean it will be discounted because the dealer pays off the loan - which is not how it works.  When an in-stock vehicle is sold, it is quickly replaced by an incoming vehicle that becomes part of the floor plan financing.

Thus, better discounting has to do more about moving a vehicle now rather than dealer-trading for a vehicle or waiting for an ordered vehicle to arrive.

So basically there is less interest payment on an in stock unit vs. an ordered unit?

Of course - if it is not in stock, interest is not being paid on the ordered vehicle.  HOWEVER, remember an ordered vehicle is not a sold vehicle.  “A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush!”  The reason for discounting the in stock vehicle more than an ordered vehicle has more to do with selling a car NOW rather than later.  The ordered vehicle may not get sold.

The floor plan is a constantly changing collateralized standing loan.  A dealership wants to sell in stock vehicles for floor plan reasons, but it also has to do with NOW sales rather than LATER sales.

That seems counter intuitive to me but my wife tells me I only THINK I know everything.

I know that dealers always want to sell TODAY because people flake and pull out of deals. I could never do that particularly on an ordered car. I would be personally embarrassed to go back on my word. I have to realize that many people have no sense of honor and would have no qualm sticking the dealer.

Back in '66 a Pontiac dealer agreed to "order" a Bonneville for me just like I wanted it. He didn't even want a down payment or holding money of any kind. When I asked what the price was going to be I got something like, "oh, don't worry about that I'll take care of you when it gets here. Even if you don't want it, I'll be able to sell it to someone because it's equipped the way most people would want it". He was a pretty fast talker but since he was willing to do that, why not.

About a month later he called and said my car was in so come and get it. When I asked, "how much" I got, "man that is a sharp color. I can see why you wanted that car". I asked again and got another salesman type answer. The call end with me saying no thanks. The following weekend I went too another dealer and bought my '66 Bonneville. The following Monday the salesman calls back (I guess they didn't sell my "sharp car"). I told him it was too late, I bought from another dealer. He then wanted to know what I paid for it. I told him it didn't make any difference because I was satisfied with the deal. He insisted on me telling him so I told him. Guess what, the dealer I bought from screwed me out of $150, which back then wasn't chicken feed. I learned my lesson, I should have bought from the fast talking guy.

I don't consider that going back on my word, but just in case, I will have to live with that decision.

Off the car talk subject but somewhat related.

If you want to talk about not honoring your word, what do you think about what Josh Mc Daniels (the Patriots offensive coordinator) did about saying he would become the Colts head coach. Even went so far as to have the Colts hire a couple coaches that he wanted then just before a press conference to make it all official, he backs out. I don't think that guy would have any problems with stiffing a dealer. I can't imagine what might be asked of him when he tells a local merchant, even selling paper napkins, "to hold it, I just have to go next door to get a sandwich. I'm hungry, I'll be right back". Sure he will.

jmonroe

Of course that dealer told you that you paid 150.00 too much! What did you expect him to say? He HAD to leave you with a bad taste in your mouth. You should have said None of your Business!

isellhondas

oldfarmer50 said:

I've driven a few cars with heated seats at work and they're nice for the first 5 minutes but after that I'm searching for the button to turn them off. Lack of them wouldn't be a deal breaker for me although I can see they would be expected on a high end model.

Same here! Even on freezing days five minutes of heated seats is more than enough! I don't need them!

tjc78

abacomike said:

tjc78 said:

@abacomike Cool rundown on how a dealership orders their inventory. I’ve probably told this story before, but right around the time I got my 2012 LaCrosse I was looking at a loaded up new generation Ford Taurus. The car was sharp ... and had a 40k sticker. I was driving wife was in the passenger seat and salesman was in the back. I see my wife looking for a button or something. All of sudden she’s like “where is the button for the heated seats?” Salesman explains where it should be and she says it’s not there. He seemed confused but by this time I’m pulling back into the dealer. We scour the window sticker and low and behold someone messed up and ordered a very highly optioned car lacking heated seats. He joked. “someone’s in trouble”. I told him that car is saleproof without them at that price point. He agreed and said that most likely it would end up with dealer added seats if it didn’t sell.

No dealer in it’s right mind would spend a fortune to upgrade seats to heated seats.  They would ship the car to a dealer in a southern state - most it could cost would be $500-$750.  Much less than pulling out seats and adding heated seats.  Think about it!  The salesman was BS-ing you.

I’ve seen lower trim cars with dealer added heated seats so I didn’t think it was that far fetched.  

Good point about transferring it 

tjc78

abacomike said:

tjc78 said:

@abacomike Cool rundown on how a dealership orders their inventory. I’ve probably told this story before, but right around the time I got my 2012 LaCrosse I was looking at a loaded up new generation Ford Taurus. The car was sharp ... and had a 40k sticker. I was driving wife was in the passenger seat and salesman was in the back. I see my wife looking for a button or something. All of sudden she’s like “where is the button for the heated seats?” Salesman explains where it should be and she says it’s not there. He seemed confused but by this time I’m pulling back into the dealer. We scour the window sticker and low and behold someone messed up and ordered a very highly optioned car lacking heated seats. He joked. “someone’s in trouble”. I told him that car is saleproof without them at that price point. He agreed and said that most likely it would end up with dealer added seats if it didn’t sell.

No dealer in it’s right mind would spend a fortune to upgrade seats to heated seats.  They would ship the car to a dealer in a southern state - most it could cost would be $500-$750.  Much less than pulling out seats and adding heated seats.  Think about it!  The salesman was BS-ing you.

I’ve seen lower trim cars with dealer added heated seats so I didn’t think it was that far fetched.  

Good point about transferring it 

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

@driver100 - since we're talking about acronyms, let's make sure we understand MSRP: Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price Suggested - not mandated. If the car isn't popular you can buy it for a discount. If the car is popular, then the dealer can ask for, and often get, above the sticker price.

Good point. But, MSRP should give you a fair idea of what value the car should be worth. If GM priced an Impala at the same price as a Cadillac we wouldn't think the price was reasonable. The MSRP isn't just a made up number, it should accurately reflect what the manufacturer "expects" to be paid for the car. The important word being "EXPECTS", and in the case of the Mustang the manufacturer values the car at $99k. The dealer thinks he can force someone to pay him $21k extra.....it is his call, nothing illegal or immoral, just not the way I like to do business. I do think there is some leeway though.........a $5k or $10k premium may be in bounds for a $100k car, but $21k is excessive.......and just IMO. My own business model would say, if you have an item that is in demand, you are entitled to make extra profit on it.......but, don't get greedy. Customers come back to you if you treat them well.

That new hopped up Civic has an ADM of $10,000 on a $34k car. Pretty steep.

Many years ago on one of these forums someone was talking up a storm on the (then) new Suzuki SX4 like it was the best thing sonce sliced bread. Since there was a Suzuki dealership about a quarter mile off my route home I stopped and took a look. 

The had a $4K ADM on a $14,900 Suzuki. I wonder how long they had that sitting on the showroom floor. 

fintail

I remember seeing 10K ADMs on the Crossfire and SSR. Seems hilarious now. We all probably know about the big ADMs on loaded early PT Cruisers, too.

snakeweasel

ab348 said:

It's even more funny - same people will fight dealer's unreasonable (in their opinion) profit and then not even blink at groceries, an electronic device, piece of software, furniture, or jewelry sold at markups that dealers could only dream of. Argument being that those are much smaller prices, so dollars lost are not big, to which I say how many of those one buys cumulatively vs. the car.

Here's one for you. That light bulb is the size of a small old-style vacuum tube, about 2" long. It is used as one of the two countertop lights on the underside of my Frigidaire over-the-range microwave. Last night one of mine blew. In looking up the type of bulb I discovered that it is not a common size or type and you could forget about finding it at places like Home Depot around here. But appliance parts houses have it. So today I went to the biggest one nearby. They had it in stock - with taxes, $22 CDN out the door. The one I got was in a GE Appliances package but was identical, I would guess a lot of those microwaves come out of the same factory with different brand names on them. So what would you expect the markup was on a Made-in-China $22 light bulb?

There is not much of a market for those, how many of those lights get replaced each year? So fixed costs have to be spread over fewer pieces making it more expensive per unit. 

snakeweasel

houdini1 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I've driven a few cars with heated seats at work and they're nice for the first 5 minutes but after that I'm searching for the button to turn them off. Lack of them wouldn't be a deal breaker for me although I can see they would be expected on a high end model.

There are usually three (3) selectable levels of heat for heated seats.  It is recommended that you start with high and then switch to low when the hearing level reaches a desirable levels.

My car has an "auto" setting for the seat warmers that does exactly that.

I always tell people that I don't need seat warmers, I wear pants  

That being said I have heated grips on the Honda. Those things seem to get warmer when I am moving. I suppose that makes some sense.

snakeweasel

Had a couple of snowstorms come through here this weekend. There is 14 inches of snow around my house. If it snows again I am not sure where I would love it to, the snow is piled as high as 4.5 feet along the driveway. Shoveling this morning I was contemplating just doing enough to get the bike out. But then again i am not big on hypothermia and frostbite.

spring is 38 days away. 

explorerx4

One good thing about a snow blower is that it spreads out the snow more evenly than shoveling by hand.

oldfarmer50

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

@driver100 - since we're talking about acronyms, let's make sure we understand MSRP:

Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price

Suggested - not mandated.

If the car isn't popular you can buy it for a discount. If the car is popular, then the dealer can ask for, and often get, above the sticker price.

Good point. But, MSRP should give you a fair idea of what value the car should be worth. If GM priced an Impala at the same price as a Cadillac we wouldn't think the price was reasonable. The MSRP isn't just a made up number, it should accurately reflect what the manufacturer "expects" to be paid for the car. The important word being "EXPECTS", and in the case of the Mustang the manufacturer values the car at $99k. The dealer thinks he can force someone to pay him $21k extra.....it is his call, nothing illegal or immoral, just not the way I like to do business.

I do think there is some leeway though.........a $5k or $10k premium may be in bounds for a $100k car, but $21k is excessive.......and just IMO.

My own business model would say, if you have an item that is in demand, you are entitled to make extra profit on it.......but, don't get greedy. Customers come back to you if you treat them well.

That new hopped up Civic has an ADM of $10,000 on a $34k car. Pretty steep.

Many years ago on one of these forums someone was talking up a storm on the (then) new Suzuki SX4 like it was the best thing sonce sliced bread. Since there was a Suzuki dealership about a quarter mile off my route home I stopped and took a look. 

The had a $4K ADM on a $14,900 Suzuki. I wonder how long they had that sitting on the showroom floor. 

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

@driver100 - since we're talking about acronyms, let's make sure we understand MSRP:

Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price

Suggested - not mandated.

If the car isn't popular you can buy it for a discount. If the car is popular, then the dealer can ask for, and often get, above the sticker price.

Good point. But, MSRP should give you a fair idea of what value the car should be worth. If GM priced an Impala at the same price as a Cadillac we wouldn't think the price was reasonable. The MSRP isn't just a made up number, it should accurately reflect what the manufacturer "expects" to be paid for the car. The important word being "EXPECTS", and in the case of the Mustang the manufacturer values the car at $99k. The dealer thinks he can force someone to pay him $21k extra.....it is his call, nothing illegal or immoral, just not the way I like to do business.

I do think there is some leeway though.........a $5k or $10k premium may be in bounds for a $100k car, but $21k is excessive.......and just IMO.

My own business model would say, if you have an item that is in demand, you are entitled to make extra profit on it.......but, don't get greedy. Customers come back to you if you treat them well.

That new hopped up Civic has an ADM of $10,000 on a $34k car. Pretty steep.

Many years ago on one of these forums someone was talking up a storm on the (then) new Suzuki SX4 like it was the best thing sonce sliced bread. Since there was a Suzuki dealership about a quarter mile off my route home I stopped and took a look. 

The had a $4K ADM on a $14,900 Suzuki. I wonder how long they had that sitting on the showroom floor. 

I remember a while ago Top Gear would have a guest star each week drive one of those on a speed track as a joke to see if anyone could beat their anonymous test driver. The times between the SX4 and other performance type cars was astounding.

explorerx4

@jmonroe,
Regarding the Josh Daniels situation, there couldn't have possibly been any duplicity on the other side.
Aren't they the team that moved out of Baltimore to Indianapolis in the middle of the night?

jmonroe

isellhondas said:

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

One other thing I remembered. When I bought my 2008 BMW 328 hardtop convertible I ordered it in August for November. The dealer was allotted 2 a month, 2 in October were sold and one in November was sold. I got the last one allotted for November, but, the dealer wouldn't give me a discount saying they would sell it for full price anyway. Fair enough, I to this day question whether that was true, but, it has the sound of truth behind it. But, I don't think I would have paid more than list price for the car.........I would check elsewhere first. It would be too upsetting to be taken advantage of..............and I haven't bought another car from that dealer.

We always tell folks shopping for BMW's to target 7% off sticker, before applying any available incentives.

But, Canada is a different market, so those guidelines may not apply.

I will suggest that an ordered car isn't going to be discounted as much by the dealer. Why? Because of that "floorplan" loan that the dealer took out to buy the car to begin with. If the dealer knows it's going to be sold within a day or two of arriving, that loan will be paid back that much quicker.

That's something I never understood. Why a higher price when the loan is paid right off? Doesn't that save the dealer some interest payments?

Or am I misunderstanding the floor plan system?

A Floor Plan is the financing of a new car dealer’s inventory.  It is usually financed through a fairly large financial institution such as Wells Fargo, Chase, etc.  Sometimes, a vehicle manufacturer finances a dealer’s inventory, especially large volume dealerships.  The dealer pays interest on the loan but does not usually pay the bank any principal.  The interest rate is variable and tied to market funds.

Ordered vehicles generally are not discounted as much as vehicles in stock because of delayed final sales - 3-8 weeks.  Selling a car in stock does not necessarily mean it will be discounted because the dealer pays off the loan - which is not how it works.  When an in-stock vehicle is sold, it is quickly replaced by an incoming vehicle that becomes part of the floor plan financing.

Thus, better discounting has to do more about moving a vehicle now rather than dealer-trading for a vehicle or waiting for an ordered vehicle to arrive.

So basically there is less interest payment on an in stock unit vs. an ordered unit?

Of course - if it is not in stock, interest is not being paid on the ordered vehicle.  HOWEVER, remember an ordered vehicle is not a sold vehicle.  “A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush!”  The reason for discounting the in stock vehicle more than an ordered vehicle has more to do with selling a car NOW rather than later.  The ordered vehicle may not get sold.

The floor plan is a constantly changing collateralized standing loan.  A dealership wants to sell in stock vehicles for floor plan reasons, but it also has to do with NOW sales rather than LATER sales.

That seems counter intuitive to me but my wife tells me I only THINK I know everything.

I know that dealers always want to sell TODAY because people flake and pull out of deals. I could never do that particularly on an ordered car. I would be personally embarrassed to go back on my word. I have to realize that many people have no sense of honor and would have no qualm sticking the dealer.

Back in '66 a Pontiac dealer agreed to "order" a Bonneville for me just like I wanted it. He didn't even want a down payment or holding money of any kind. When I asked what the price was going to be I got something like, "oh, don't worry about that I'll take care of you when it gets here. Even if you don't want it, I'll be able to sell it to someone because it's equipped the way most people would want it". He was a pretty fast talker but since he was willing to do that, why not.

About a month later he called and said my car was in so come and get it. When I asked, "how much" I got, "man that is a sharp color. I can see why you wanted that car". I asked again and got another salesman type answer. The call end with me saying no thanks. The following weekend I went too another dealer and bought my '66 Bonneville. The following Monday the salesman calls back (I guess they didn't sell my "sharp car"). I told him it was too late, I bought from another dealer. He then wanted to know what I paid for it. I told him it didn't make any difference because I was satisfied with the deal. He insisted on me telling him so I told him. Guess what, the dealer I bought from screwed me out of $150, which back then wasn't chicken feed. I learned my lesson, I should have bought from the fast talking guy.

I don't consider that going back on my word, but just in case, I will have to live with that decision.

Off the car talk subject but somewhat related.

If you want to talk about not honoring your word, what do you think about what Josh Mc Daniels (the Patriots offensive coordinator) did about saying he would become the Colts head coach. Even went so far as to have the Colts hire a couple coaches that he wanted then just before a press conference to make it all official, he backs out. I don't think that guy would have any problems with stiffing a dealer. I can't imagine what might be asked of him when he tells a local merchant, even selling paper napkins, "to hold it, I just have to go next door to get a sandwich. I'm hungry, I'll be right back". Sure he will.

jmonroe

Of course that dealer told you that you paid 150.00 too much! What did you expect him to say? He HAD to leave you with a bad taste in your mouth. You should have said None of your Business!

Do you really think when I said, "I learned my lesson, I should have bought from the fast talking guy" that I didn't know the fast talker was going to give me a lower price? No matter what I said, his price was going to be better. I was a pretty young guy back then but I wasn't a baby seal, ya know.

jmonroe

driver100

fintail said:

I remember seeing 10K ADMs on the Crossfire and SSR. Seems hilarious now. We all probably know about the big ADMs on loaded early PT Cruisers, too.

ADM is like the kiss of death.

jmonroe

explorerx4 said:

One good thing about a snow blower is that it spreads out the snow more evenly than shoveling by hand.

There are so many good things about a snow blower that even I couldn't list them all. I haven't shoveled a driveway since 1987 and I don't miss doing that one bit. It's all about HP. Three is a lot better than less than one.

jmonroe

jmonroe

explorerx4 said:

@jmonroe,
Regarding the Josh Daniels situation, there couldn't have possibly been any duplicity on the other side.
Aren't they the team that moved out of Baltimore to Indianapolis in the middle of the night?

You are right, the Colts made the infamous middle of the night move years ago. They are not an organization that I would want to work for but Josh McDaniels said he would. What Josh did was just about as low as moving in the darkness. In a way, they would have deserved each other but we will never know now.

jmonroe

Michaell

Mr. McDaniels is tainted goods, as far as the rest of the NFL is concerned. His first stint as a head coach (remember that?) was here in Denver. He lasted less than 2 full seasons, and wasn't ready for the responsibility at the time.

Now, he's backed out of a verbal commitment - there was no signed contract - based on conversations he had with Kraft and Belichek. I gotta believe one or more of the following are true:

1. He got a big raise - similar to a head coaching position
2. He got a promise to be the next head coach of the Patriots when Belichek retires
3. He learned more about the health and recovery of Andrew Luck, and didn't want any part of it

karhill1

Comparing Josh McDaniels backing out of an apparent verbal agreement with the Colts to backing out of buying an ordered vehicle is not reasonable. Apples and Oranges. One is a life changing event the other is a vehicle, not life changing.

In McDaniels' situation he did what he believed was best for his family. That was to stay in Foxborough. For some of us, me for example, money is not the most important thing. Particularly when you already have enough to live well.

Did he potentially harm his future in the NFL aside from the Patriots? Most likely he did, at least in the short term. That is what makes his decision admirable. And surely he did not make his decision without much thought.

For many the well being of the family, the children, is most important. I actually have an older child, with school aged children, living five miles from Foxborough. Lovely wooded area, great schools, near the beaches of Cape Cod and the White and Green Mountains of New England. I cannot imagine a better place to raise a child.

Reports out of New England are the Krafts sweetened his contract with more money and Belichick granted McDaniels more say in how the Patriots are structured, draft and free agents. However, McDaniels has stated there were no assurances he would be the next head coach of the Patriots. Surely there was some head nodding in that direction.

In the end, McDaniels did the Colts a favor. It is far better for them to search for another head coach than it would have been for them to have a head coach who immediately regretted his decision to take the Colts head coach position.

driver100

graphicguy

RE-Josh McDaniels....regardless of why he backed out of his Indy deal, given his track record in Denver and his apparent immaturity of reneging on a one of the most prestigious jobs (being one of 32 HC in the NFL) in the world, I can’t see any other team touching him, ever again! He better hope everything with the PAtriots works out.

Back to Cars....went to the Cincinnati Auto Show yesterday. Pretty good crowd. Won’t repeat what KYFDX mentioned, but Mercedes was indeed conspicuous by their absence, given the crowd around the Lexus, Audi, BMW, even the Genesis booth.

Acura was stuck in a corner. There was a significant crowd around the TLX ASpec (Pearl White over Red....very sharp). Do yourself a favor Acura, you finally have some products that are generating excitement.

Put yourself in an area of prominence. If they had been in with the other lux brands, I’m confident locally their sales would have upticked by double digits. Good to see the interest in them.

As these things go, one guy looking at the TLX mentioned to his cohorts that the TLX uses a drivetrain from Mitsubishi. Usually I let this slide, but being a fan of the brand, I corrected him......nicely, of course. Anyway, he asked me how I knew this, and I told him I owned an ASPEC. Well, all of a sudden, I had people asking me all sorts of questions about it. Gladly answered until I figured Acura wasn’t paying me, so I moved on. Acura rep was quite happy to stand behind his counter, unengaged with anyone.

That said, whatever money they’ve put into the RLX, kill the model an reinvest in the other models. The RLX has been disappointing for probably a decade plus. That hasn’t changed with the “refresh” (looks like a TLX with a little more chrome).

Significant other thoughts.....

-BMW...nice. But, given I’m a fan of theirs, too....I felt like I’d seen it all before.

-Lexus.....I like the brand. But, either I’m not paying attention or their bread and butter cars haven’t changed in like forever. LFA was there. Beautiful car. People just love the ES350. But, when was the last time that car was redesigned? Liked the RS350, which I think was just recently redesigned. Some of the nicest seats in any SUV I’ve ever been in. Plenty of room....all the bells and whistles. It was an F Sport. How does that play in the SUV world? Hard to tell what the one on display stickered for, but I’m sure it was somewhere in the mid $50K range. That puts it in some other, probably better, company. Then, there’s the grill. Can’t wrap my arms around that.

-I saw a $75K Chevy Tahoe. Seriously? The one I bought a dozen years ago was pretty well loaded up. This new one is $20K more than that? Inflation has been nearly non-existent. How can they sell any of them?

-My opinion might change after driving it, but the Lincoln Continental can out lux Lexus, Mercedes, etc just on the looks and trimmings. Very nice!

-Cadillac...nothing really new there. Won’t let my bias sneak into the rest of my thoughts. But, if I thought the Tahoe was way overpriced, the Escalade was in a whole other universe of being overpriced.

-Chrysler...when’s the last time they changed the 300? It seems old, and I was looking at a brand new one.

-Dodge....How long has the new Challenger been out? It’s still as good looking as anything on the showroom floor, and really typifies what American Muscle should be.

-Alfa....on looks alone, I’d be interested in looking at them when I’m in the market again. Just plain sexy. I know the Giulia is the one all the trade rags love. Just a very nice car. But, the Stelvio (SUV) was the one I think I’d want to look at, too. Supremely nice inside and comfortable seats. On the smallish side for an SUV, but perfect size for someone like me. Now, if they could only convince everyone they’re actually reliable.

-Volvo....XC90....probably the prettiest wagon/SUV I’ve ever seen. Great seats. Looks like all the tech is there. I can see why some of you are loyal to the brand.

-Ford....there are trucks, SUVs and Mustangs. Everything else they have? Not sure they matter.

I was thinking if there were more comfortable interiors than what’s in my TLX. Volvo, Lincoln Continental, Alfa.....maybe the Lexus RS350. But, for the money, I’m still quite pleased with my TLX, coming up on its first birthday this Spring. It pretty much uses aluminum, vinyl, leather, etc for materials...no fancy woods. But, everything Acura puts in it is of high quality and is built as well as anything on the convention center floor.

Best for last.....they gave the opportunity to test drive some cars outside. I chose 3 of them. In order....

-Chevy Bolt
-Toyota Camry
-Honda Accord

Up front, all 3 were impressive.

The Bolt, for the price, gobs of torque, nice handling, decent ride.....looked to be loaded up. If I were looking for a car to run around town in, this would be it. I figured I could drive from Cincinnait to Chicago in it before needing a charge. I wouldn’t be worn out at the end of the trip, either. With the tax break, and for a car that would probably be trouble free (given how the drivetrain is so simple) for a long time, it’s hard not to want a Bolt. For 99.9% of what most of us need in a car, the Bolt fills those needs nicely. Flat out impressive. Yes, there are some hard plastics in it. No, I wouldn’t carry 6, or even 5 people in it. But, I was surprised by the amount of room sitting in the driver’s seat. For $35K (after tax breaks) before negotiation, it’s a very compelling car.

-The Camry was a nice redesign. But, Toyota doesn’t stray far from what’s made the car successful. It’s totally inoffensive. It rides nice. They wouldn’t let me be too aggressive in it, but I’m sure for everyday driving, it handles fine. The interior has been upgraded, and is nice. You want a car that goes forever, with little muss or fuss, not sure you can do better than the Camry.

-I noticed on the floor of the convention center, Honda was showing standard shift cars, including the Accord. While the crowd was around the Civic Type R, there was less of a crowd around the new Accord. Pretty big departure from the previous model. Driving it right after driving the Camry, the Accord felt like a sports car. HAndled well, quick, roomy, comfortable, rode well (but not as cushy as the Camry). All around, tough to make a case for the similarly priced Camry when the Accord is on the market. Impressive!

Had fun...was there for 3 hours. Not a bad way to spend an afternoon.

stickguy

Good stuff. I’m kinda sorry now I didn’t test drive a Volt. I did though love the TLX. Just wasn’t within budget this time around.

imidazol97

graphicguy said:

Pretty big departure from the previous model. Driving it right after driving the Camry, the Accord felt like a sports car. Handled well, quick, roomy, comfortable, rode well (but not as cushy as the Camry). All around, tough to make a case for the similarly priced Camry when the Accord is on the market. Impressive!

Does the Accord's feel come from its roots in the smaller Civic?

Michaell

imidazol97 said:

graphicguy said:

Pretty big departure from the previous model. Driving it right after driving the Camry, the Accord felt like a sports car. Handled well, quick, roomy, comfortable, rode well (but not as cushy as the Camry). All around, tough to make a case for the similarly priced Camry when the Accord is on the market. Impressive!

Does the Accord's feel come from its roots in the smaller Civic?

Hard to say - not having driven a Civic, I can't compare the two.

But, from my test drive in the Accord Sport I had last year, I'll say that Honda seems to have rediscovered it's engineering roots. Was a fun drive, though the equipment level in the Sport trim is lacking some features I would want.

fintail

RLX to me is like a 4:3 scale prior generation Accord at 5:3 the price. I can't imagine who would buy one new, they must lease or sell to dealer principals.

graphicguy

I haven’t driven a Civic in a while. So, not sure how the Accord fares in comparison. But, my TLX, the Accord I drove yesterday, etc....there’s a certain engineering focus on them that they share. Emphasis is on sport.

TLX is nicer inside. TLX V6 is smoother and makes better sounds (although the Accord’s turbo 4 is smooth, too.....for a 4 cyl). SH AWD does really make a difference through the curves. Generally, TLX materials are better...stereo is MUCH better.

But, for $8K less, you get 75%-80% of the TLX in the new Accord.

Honda is really getting back on their game. That’s good for all of us.

stickguy

I loved the TLX. But would have gotten a FWD model. At this point, if I wanted a bigger and fancier sedan, almost a lock to be an accord over the TLX. Especially if shopping new, even more so if buying not leasing.

roadburner

graphicguy said:

-Ford....there are trucks, SUVs and Mustangs. Everything else they have? Not sure they matter.

I'd also add the Fiesta ST and Focus ST/RS- but aside from those Ford and Lincoln are not on my radar...

28firefighter

Nice write-up, GG!

Mr_Shiftright

Well here's something new in nanny gadgets! Useful you think?

https://blog.caranddriver.com/problems-with-blow-crosswind-assist-is-coming-to-keep-you-and-your-sprinter-on-a-straight-path/