Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

jipster said:

roadburner said:

jipster said:

A good friend has been working at a BMW dealership here in Louisville. Told him the type of car and price range we are looking at. Says he'll try to find a car for us. I'll try to hit him up for some sales stories. But I suspect not many at a Beamer dealership. 

Unless you live in the UK, it's "Bimmer."
In the US a "Beemer"is a BMW motorcycle.
Also, you missed all my stories from when I worked at that same store for 18 months...

Originally I had written "Bimmer". Didn't look "proper", so I changed it. :-(

Yes, I missed your stories, or don't remember. Could give summarize your 18 months in a few sentences? My friend likes working there.

I really enjoyed it; everyone I worked with was great. The downside was working weekends and holidays- and until 6 or later Fridays and Saturdays. The only reason I left was because I was offered a part time city attorney gig that dovetailed perfectly into my campaign for Commonwealth's Attorney.

I bet they miss having someone of your caliber on staff. I'm sure they had big plans for you.

How's the campaign going? Do they take polls at your level to gauge where you stand with the voters?

tbirdmarco

 I know Jupiter you have a different name every time I post ha ha   Lol lol lol 

tbirdmarco

 I know driver 100 and Mike Ha ha ha 

tbirdmarco

 Home today due to snow again hopefully this is it for the year spring started yesterday but I’m not complaining ha ha Ha 

bwia

tbirdmarco said:

 Home today due to snow again hopefully this is it for the year spring started yesterday but I’m not complaining ha ha Ha 

Our 4th. Nor'easter in three weeks begin this evening. Not worried about the snow but power outage is a real possibility since wet and heavy snow is expected.

bwia

Question for the military historians?

How on Earth did Germany pull off facing France, the UK, the US and the Soviet Union for six years? How could they pull so much above their own weight?

Don't know how they did it but even today Germany is punching above it's own weight class. It is the sphere of influence in Europe and a leader in automotive technology and manufacturing; precision instruments and heavy machinery; and civil engineering and construction. 

abacomike

bwia said:

Question for the military historians?

How on Earth did Germany pull off facing France, the UK, the US and the Soviet Union for six years? How could they pull so much above their own weight?

Don't know how they did it but even today Germany is punching above it's own weight class. It is the sphere of influence in Europe and a leader in automotive technology and manufacturing; precision instruments and heavy machinery; and civil engineering and construction. 

Just think what would be different if Germany used technology, manufacturing, precision instruments, automobiles and banking in the 1930’s instead of trying to expand its territory and kill gypsies, Jews, gays, and crippled human beings.  They’d be unstoppable and more powerful.

Mr_Shiftright

dino001 said:

That's not a good reason to stop it, as it wasn't when people were smashing steam machines installed in the manufactures to do lifting.

People are always more keen to punish a machine for a mistake than to punish a human.

My point of view is that fully autonomous cars must be placed on carefully chosen routes, not just "anywhere".

driver100

bwia said:

tbirdmarco said:

 Home today due to snow again hopefully this is it for the year spring started yesterday but I’m not complaining ha ha Ha 

Our 4th. Nor'easter in three weeks begin this evening. Not worried about the snow but power outage is a real possibility since wet and heavy snow is expected.

Yeh, we had pretty strong winds today...gusts of about 40 mph. It is really hard to serve when you throw the ball up in the air and it moves about a foot sideways.

fintail

Dedication to engineering, and dedication in general. There's quite a work ethic in that area - and at the same time, a dedication to social goods.

Had the energy not been devoted to so much evil, they'd probably have colonies on other planets by now.

bwia said:

Question for the military historians?

How on Earth did Germany pull off facing France, the UK, the US and the Soviet Union for six years? How could they pull so much above their own weight?

Don't know how they did it but even today Germany is punching above it's own weight class. It is the sphere of influence in Europe and a leader in automotive technology and manufacturing; precision instruments and heavy machinery; and civil engineering and construction. 

driver100

Oldfarmer...I have 2 questions for you.

Were you the one or Sandman delivering cars destined for Norway (I believe)? Why would Enterprise ship cars to Norway....do they have offices there?

2nd question, do you guys get a discount if you buy one of their used cars?

Not looking to buy...just curious. Many years ago I bought a used 1978 Pontiac from either Tilden (are they still around) or Avis and it ended up being an excellent car....greatly under powered but that wasn't their fault.

houdini1

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

It is possible no car could have stopped in time if she left the curb and walked in front of the car - going 40 mph.

It's possible, but the key term "walked" makes it hard to believe that the car didn't have time to swerve around her (assuming the adjacent lane was free). If the adjacent lane was free, not sure I could forgive the driver.

Huge difference between ran/jumped/biked and turned in front of me to "walking with bike in tow." Why would you be so close to someone that at walking speed you still hit them?

I'd be hugging the left line in this situation. If the brakes or steering wheel were never touched, it shows a failure in the programming and sensors to detect the pedestrian. Which is what I suspected all along. Aren't these sensors supposed to be superior to a human?

That recent video showed a car "sensing" a pot hole and reacting fast enough to have the tire float over it... but no sign of appreciable braking in the pedestrian death?

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

Dedication to engineering, and dedication in general. There's quite a work ethic in that area - and at the same time, a dedication to social goods.

Had the energy not been devoted to so much evil, they'd probably have colonies on other planets by now.

bwia said:

Question for the military historians?

How on Earth did Germany pull off facing France, the UK, the US and the Soviet Union for six years? How could they pull so much above their own weight?

Don't know how they did it but even today Germany is punching above it's own weight class. It is the sphere of influence in Europe and a leader in automotive technology and manufacturing; precision instruments and heavy machinery; and civil engineering and construction. 

A BIG head start for one thing. They also constructed a kind of Ponzi scheme economy, that had to be propped up by invasion and looting....and of course, slave labor.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

Oldfarmer...I have 2 questions for you.

Were you the one or Sandman delivering cars destined for Norway (I believe)? Why would Enterprise ship cars to Norway....do they have offices there?

2nd question, do you guys get a discount if you buy one of their used cars?

Not looking to buy...just curious. Many years ago I bought a used 1978 Pontiac from either Tilden (are they still around) or Avis and it ended up being an excellent car....greatly under powered but that wasn't their fault.

No on the Norway question as far as I know although one of our guys was sent from NY to Tampa once. Must have been a heck of a car.

Yes on the discount. We get $1000 off any Enterprise car. No haggle price like CarMax. Bet you could do better on your own at a dealer.

ab348

This looks interesting for Cadillac. One wonders what kind of a price premium will get charged. I also wonder what it is based on, whether a clean-sheet design or a variant of an existing V-8?

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180321/OEM04/180329932/cadillac-readies-exclusive-twin-turbo-4-2-liter-v-8?cciid=email-autonews-blast

driver100

NY to Tampa to deliver a car or pick up a car?
Don't they drop them off or switch with other stores?

ab348

A new Chrysler museum in the works perhaps!

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180321/RETAIL03/180329926/fca-envisions-turning-conner-plant-in-detroit-into-museum-for-its?cciid=email-autonews-blast

The auction they mention has lots of cool stuff. Amazing what you find when you clean out a space. The Lutz/Gale/Castaing signed poster is pushing $500 but still has 3 weeks to go.

ab348

driver100 said:

Many years ago I bought a used 1978 Pontiac from either Tilden (are they still around) or Avis and it ended up being an excellent car....greatly under powered but that wasn't their fault.

Tilden was acquired by National, I believe, some years ago. I used to like Tilden and preferred to deal with them back in the '90s as they were a Canadian chain.

driver100

ab348 said:

This looks interesting for Cadillac. One wonders what kind of a price premium will get charged. I also wonder what it is based on, whether a clean-sheet design or a variant of an existing V-8?

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180321/OEM04/180329932/cadillac-readies-exclusive-twin-turbo-4-2-liter-v-8?cciid=email-autonews-blast

A few things come to mind:

The design, known as the "hot V," is used by Cadillac's chief German rivals.

So it isn't new...Cadillac is playing catch up.

But the hot V also creates significant challenges in managing underhood temperatures. Catalytic converters usually operate at between 400 and 600 degrees once a vehicle is warmed up.

What could possibly go wrong? Trying something this complex for the first time.

"During the design of [turbocharged] engines, we are always struggling about where are we going to put the turbos," said Jordan Lee, chief engineer for GM's V-8 engines. "You can put them on the sides of the engine or in the valley. For compactness and packaging reasons for it to be able to fit under the hood of the CT6, we went with the hot V architecture, similar to what you see on Audi, BMW and Mercedes.

"

We saved a lot of money on research and design...just copied what our competitors have done.

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

Many years ago I bought a used 1978 Pontiac from either Tilden (are they still around) or Avis and it ended up being an excellent car....greatly under powered but that wasn't their fault.

Tilden was acquired by National, I believe, some years ago. I used to like Tilden and preferred to deal with them back in the '90s as they were a Canadian chain.

Thanks for the info......thought it was a blast from the past.

roadburner

abacomike said:

bwia said:

Question for the military historians?

How on Earth did Germany pull off facing France, the UK, the US and the Soviet Union for six years? How could they pull so much above their own weight?

Don't know how they did it but even today Germany is punching above it's own weight class. It is the sphere of influence in Europe and a leader in automotive technology and manufacturing; precision instruments and heavy machinery; and civil engineering and construction. 

Just think what would be different if Germany used technology, manufacturing, precision instruments, automobiles and banking in the 1930’s instead of trying to expand its territory and kill gypsies, Jews, gays, and crippled human beings.  They’d be unstoppable and more powerful.


If the racis/ Nazism hadn't taken hold and had Germany only looked to Russia for an opportunity to expand and conquer they likely would rule the world today.

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

How's the campaign going? Do they take polls at your level to gauge where you stand with the voters?

Polling is too expensive for a single county campaign. That said, things look pretty positive; my opponent has a huge problem with name recognition and she didn't help herself by taking a few shots at me. We will be trying a few different techniques to contact likely voters as well as traditional mailings and appearances at local community events. Nothing is certain in politics, but I feel pretty comfortable with the way things are going. In any event it will all be over on May 22. There is only a primary election as no Democratic challenger filed...

fintail

They could have exceeded the Brits, who used a mildly similar scheme (and bankrupted themselves to stop the challenger). Of course, coulda been a contendah isn't worth a lot in the end.

There was some revenge though, as German interests effectively overtook the British auto industry, as well as dominated the high end in NA and elsewhere.

Mr_Shiftright said:

A BIG head start for one thing. They also constructed a kind of Ponzi scheme economy, that had to be propped up by invasion and looting....and of course, slave labor.

jmonroe

tbirdmarco said:

 Home today due to snow again hopefully this is it for the year spring started yesterday but I’m not complaining ha ha Ha 

You're a lot more forgiving than I am. It's Spring dammit and I'm looking at 8 plus inches of snow on the table on my deck. Don't get me wrong, I don't give a damn about that table but I do care about the same amount of snow that is in my 6 car driveway.

The forecasters got this right in my area but my only complaint with that is, the local media has to tell us about it at least 3 maybe even 4 times during the 6 and 11 o'clock news. OK, OK, I GET IT. Now come blow it out of my driveway. :@

Guess what I'm going to be doing when I hang up in here? :@ :@

jmonroe

abacomike

roadburner said:

How's the campaign going? Do they take polls at your level to gauge where you stand with the voters?

Polling is too expensive for a single county campaign. That said, things look pretty positive; my opponent has a huge problem with name recognition and she didn't help herself by taking a few shots at me. We will be trying a few different techniques to contact likely voters as well as traditional mailings and appearances at local community events. Nothing is certain in politics, but I feel pretty comfortable with the way things are going. In any event it will all be over on May 22. There is only a primary election as no Democratic challenger filed...

Name recognition?  Who’s roadburner?

roadburner

abacomike said:

Name recognition?  Who’s roadburner?

She's actually acknowledging her problem as her campaign slogan is "More than a Name!"

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

This looks interesting for Cadillac. One wonders what kind of a price premium will get charged. I also wonder what it is based on, whether a clean-sheet design or a variant of an existing V-8?

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180321/OEM04/180329932/cadillac-readies-exclusive-twin-turbo-4-2-liter-v-8?cciid=email-autonews-blast

Interesting but why do they call the car CT 6 when it's an 8 cyl.?

Michaell

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

This looks interesting for Cadillac. One wonders what kind of a price premium will get charged. I also wonder what it is based on, whether a clean-sheet design or a variant of an existing V-8?

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180321/OEM04/180329932/cadillac-readies-exclusive-twin-turbo-4-2-liter-v-8?cciid=email-autonews-blast

Interesting but why do they call the car CT 6 when it's an 8 cyl.?

The Audi A6 was available with a V8
The Audi A4 was available with a V6
The Audi A8 was avaialble with a 12-cylinder engine

Should those have been renamed, as well?

ab348

$1 to @Michaell .

jmonroe

bwia said:

Question for the military historians?

How on Earth did Germany pull off facing France, the UK, the US and the Soviet Union for six years? How could they pull so much above their own weight?

Don't know how they did it but even today Germany is punching above it's own weight class. It is the sphere of influence in Europe and a leader in automotive technology and manufacturing; precision instruments and heavy machinery; and civil engineering and construction. 

Germany did it by charging a hefty doc fee. Read that as a big war machine takes a LOT of money and the hell with the people. They were not very smart; delusional would be a better way to describe them. Why did they think they could take on the world? They tried that once and failed. Making the same mistake again is, like I said, delusional.

Once the Allies decided to get serious it was all over.

As for their reincarnation, it would not have happened if the Allies didn't dump huge amounts of money into Germany to get them back on their feet, even eat. And then when the Soviet Union, Russia or whatever name you want to call the world's biggest trouble makers, both before and after World War II, dumped plenty of money into East Germany, Germany got a big boost with technical development money that they used wisely.

I'm not impressed with German technology in cars. Most people don't want to own one when they are out of warranty other than to show off the badge. Reliability is more important to me.

If you really want to know what benefitted the world the most with technology you don't have to look any further than the US Space Program that created more technology than any other single spenditure, not that we were trying to do that, but we did. Like I have said before, 'the communication fallout from that program has been enormous and you'd be freezing your @ss off in a telephone booth somewhere today if advances hadn't been made in that field alone'.

No, I'm not impressed when you make the same unforgivable mistake twice.

jmonroe

fintail

Funnily enough, the CT6 is also available with a 6 and a 4.

Caddy's alphanumeric system in general, a brainchild of one trick pony deNysschen, is dopey at best.

Michaell said:

Interesting but why do they call the car CT 6 when it's an 8 cyl.?

The Audi A6 was available with a V8
The Audi A4 was available with a V6
The Audi A8 was avaialble with a 12-cylinder engine

Should those have been renamed, as well?

fintail

I dunno about the legitimacy of two take over the world attempts. Maybe take over Europe and have influence in the world, yeah. Taking over the world is a dangerous game, as when you fall, you fall hard. The sun has set on an empire that tried it.

If one has been to what was East Germany, they might not see evidence of large sums of Soviet expenditures - the area still lags nearly 30 years after the fall of the wall. Work ethic and education systems help a lot, too . UK and France received more Marshall Plan funds than Germany, but are today inferior in terms of economic might.

Didn't the great space program import some of the "best" Germans not too long after VE Day? If reliability is all that mattered, wouldn't a nice Elantra suffice?

jmonroe said:

Germany did it by charging a hefty doc fee. Read that as a big war machine takes a LOT of money and the hell with the people. They were not very smart; delusional would be a better way to describe them. Why did they think they could take on the world? They tried that once and failed. Making the same mistake again is, like I said, delusional.

Once the Allies decided to get serious it was all over.

As for their reincarnation, it would not have happened if the Allies didn't dump huge amounts of money into Germany to get them back on their feet, even eat. And then when the Soviet Union, Russia or whatever name you want to call the world's biggest trouble makers, both before and after World War II, dumped plenty of money into East Germany, Germany got a big boost with technical development money that they used wisely.

I'm not impressed with German technology in cars. Most people don't want to own one when they are out of warranty other than to show off the badge. Reliability is more important to me.

If you really want to know what benefitted the world the most with technology you don't have to look any further than the US Space Program that created more technology than any other single spenditure, not that we were trying to do that, but we did. Like I have said before, 'the communication fallout from that program has been enormous and you'd be freezing your @ss off in a telephone booth somewhere today if advances hadn't been made in that field alone'.

No, I'm not impressed when you make the same unforgivable mistake twice.

jmonroe

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BZaNJVIzXUw

stickguy

Driver, OF took cars to Amsterdam, ny. Not holland. And trust me, they are not the same.

jmonroe

fintail said:

I dunno about the legitimacy of two take over the world attempts. Maybe take over Europe and have influence in the world, yeah. Taking over the world is a dangerous game, as when you fall, you fall hard. The sun has set on an empire that tried it.

If one has been to what was East Germany, they might not see evidence of large sums of Soviet expenditures - the area still lags nearly 30 years after the fall of the wall. Work ethic and education systems help a lot, too . UK and France received more Marshall Plan funds than Germany, but are today inferior in terms of economic might.

Didn't the great space program import some of the "best" Germans not too long after VE Day? If reliability is all that mattered, wouldn't a nice Elantra suffice?

jmonroe said:

Germany did it by charging a hefty doc fee. Read that as a big war machine takes a LOT of money and the hell with the people. They were not very smart; delusional would be a better way to describe them. Why did they think they could take on the world? They tried that once and failed. Making the same mistake again is, like I said, delusional.

Once the Allies decided to get serious it was all over.

As for their reincarnation, it would not have happened if the Allies didn't dump huge amounts of money into Germany to get them back on their feet, even eat. And then when the Soviet Union, Russia or whatever name you want to call the world's biggest trouble makers, both before and after World War II, dumped plenty of money into East Germany, Germany got a big boost with technical development money that they used wisely.

I'm not impressed with German technology in cars. Most people don't want to own one when they are out of warranty other than to show off the badge. Reliability is more important to me.

If you really want to know what benefitted the world the most with technology you don't have to look any further than the US Space Program that created more technology than any other single spenditure, not that we were trying to do that, but we did. Like I have said before, 'the communication fallout from that program has been enormous and you'd be freezing your @ss off in a telephone booth somewhere today if advances hadn't been made in that field alone'.

No, I'm not impressed when you make the same unforgivable mistake twice.

jmonroe

I not going to argue about the US going after the "best" rocket scientists that Germany had, since that is a fact. But the biggest reason for that was to make sure that the Soviet Union didn't get them. OK, now we have them but what good is a big gun if you can't hit the target? That is the technology that I am talking about.

And you are correct again, an Elantra is more than enough to get you to and from the grocery store and you'll have a lot of reliability doing that for quite a few years. But, when you you're willing to spend more for some luxury you shouldn't have to hold your breath when the warranty is gone.

jmonroe

jmonroe

driver100 said:

bwia said:

tbirdmarco said:

 Home today due to snow again hopefully this is it for the year spring started yesterday but I’m not complaining ha ha Ha 

Our 4th. Nor'easter in three weeks begin this evening. Not worried about the snow but power outage is a real possibility since wet and heavy snow is expected.

Yeh, we had pretty strong winds today...gusts of about 40 mph. It is really hard to serve when you throw the ball up in the air and it moves about a foot sideways.

Florida is very proud of their weather so if you complain about it, you're going to be deported sooner than you think. :@

jmonroe

explorerx4

I guess the GM car engine guys never speak with the truck engine guys.

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

This looks interesting for Cadillac. One wonders what kind of a price premium will get charged. I also wonder what it is based on, whether a clean-sheet design or a variant of an existing V-8?

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180321/OEM04/180329932/cadillac-readies-exclusive-twin-turbo-4-2-liter-v-8?cciid=email-autonews-blast

Interesting but why do they call the car CT 6 when it's an 8 cyl.?

The Audi A6 was available with a V8
The Audi A4 was available with a V6
The Audi A8 was avaialble with a 12-cylinder engine

Should those have been renamed, as well?

Yep!

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

This looks interesting for Cadillac. One wonders what kind of a price premium will get charged. I also wonder what it is based on, whether a clean-sheet design or a variant of an existing V-8?

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180321/OEM04/180329932/cadillac-readies-exclusive-twin-turbo-4-2-liter-v-8?cciid=email-autonews-blast

Interesting but why do they call the car CT 6 when it's an 8 cyl.?

The Audi A6 was available with a V8
The Audi A4 was available with a V6
The Audi A8 was avaialble with a 12-cylinder engine

Should those have been renamed, as well?

Yep!

stickguy said:

Driver, OF took cars to Amsterdam, ny. Not holland. And trust me, they are not the same.

OH I don't know about that. Amsterdam NY has a windmill out by the Thruway and the one in Holland wasn't the birth place of Kirk Douglas.

dino001

jmonroe said:

I'm not impressed with German technology in cars. Most people don't want to own one when they are out of warranty other than to show off the badge. Reliability is more important to me.

If you really want to know what benefitted the world the most with technology you don't have to look any further than the US Space Program that created more technology than any other single spenditure, not that we were trying to do that, but we did.
jmonroe

Be careful with your examples. Just read on Dr. Werner von Braun...

I agree with you on your assessment of the war. Their early success was results of facing unprepared opponets, who were mostly left to their own devices (check Poland vs. "phony war" in the West in 1939-40) or had obsolete war doctrine and equipment. Add US isolationism (e.g. Congress prohibited using US transportation facilities (like ports) to move the equipment to war zones, even one that was already paid for by British) and Germans land troops faced material fighting resistance for first time in late 1941, aided by Russian winter, BTW. At this time, Japanese attacked, so finally all those [non-permissible content removed]-sympathizers and isolationists in the US had to finally give it up the idea that Europe was "not their problem", or simply shut up and stand in the draft line. United States still needed another year to get its economy and troops ready for the war effort, during which time Soviets were already pushing back at incredibly high cost. US had the benefit of Ocean separation, so they could simply do it on their own terms. BTW, it may not be well known, but British packed up all their patents, sent them to America and gave them to the US government in exchange for full support. They also opened all their colonies to trade with the US. So don't tell Brits that you saved them "for free" (not saying the price wasn't worth it, just it wasn't free). Once US got ready and prioritized Europe over Pacific, it was over, just 2.5 years, including another year to prepare an extremely difficult marine assault on determined and well trained enemy.

dino001

jmonroe said:

Why did they think they could take on the world? They tried that once and failed. Making the same mistake again is, like I said, delusional.

Here is the thing - WWI was started by Central Nations, but really Entante was ready to start it, too. They all wanted it. Today we say Germany lost WWI, but at the time Germans really couldn't understand why they were called losers. From a regular guy's view, troops were still in France, Russians withdrew, so what the heck just happened? German military did not want to admit to them that it was over (and only matter of time) and they concocted a theory of betrayal by politicians. What's worse, France decided to punish Germany not for this war, but for the war before that (Franco-Prussian war of 1870-71, where they were forced to pay a ridiculous tribute of 5 billion (!!!) franks in gold. Do you know how much that was? WWII became a revenge on revenge on revenge. Moreover, that war was a wrong lesson - Germans believed that wars were quick, easy and profitable. Then they were not properly defeated in 1918, which resulted in "if only..." sentiment and feel of injustice on terms of the Versailles Treaty. No wonder guy like Hitler could convince them somebody else is to blame.

Not to get overly political here, but when I hear the orange man saying that trade wars are easy and winnable, I see XIX and half of XX century playing in my head again and again and I get really scared. What a doofus.

driver100

ab348 said:

$1 to @Michaell .

Does every car need the number of cylinders in it's name?

Can I have $1 too?

driver100

stickguy said:

Driver, OF took cars to Amsterdam, ny. Not holland. And trust me, they are not the same.

Oh....thanks. I was wondering how he drove cars across the ocean.
I really do thank you stick because I thought he said Amsterdam...I actually thought he meant drove them to a ship to be transported.

houdini1

I will say it again, if you want to understand politics, never pay any attention to what a politician says, just watch what they actually do.

cdnpinhead

I actually thought he meant drove them to a ship to be transported.

This is why it's entertaining to have you around, in spite of your multiple daily posts.

driver100

JM said: I'm not impressed with German technology in cars. Most people don't want to own one when they are out of warranty other than to show off the badge. Reliability is more important to me.

I will just address this part of your essay. Germans take great pride in quality workmanship. Quality has to be of a certain standard or it won't make it. A German luxury car can last as long as any other car. Better - more expensive cars have more engineering and finer tuning, so more could go wrong. When you try new things it is expensive...others can copy for a lot less. If you want real reliability buy a Toyota....good solid old style tried and true technology....but, not very exciting.

Some of us have passion, a soul, and we appreciate a finely made precision engineered car, and will pay extra to drive it....because you only live once (as far as I know).

driver100

cdnpinhead said:

I actually thought he meant drove them to a ship to be transported.

This is why it's entertaining to have you around, in spite of your multiple daily posts.



Thanks....I think

dino001

driver100 said:

JM said: I'm not impressed with German technology in cars. Most people don't want to own one when they are out of warranty other than to show off the badge. Reliability is more important to me.

I will just address this part of your essay. Germans take great pride in quality workmanship. Quality has to be of a certain standard or it won't make it. A German luxury car can last as long as any other car. Better - more expensive cars have more engineering and finer tuning, so more could go wrong. When you try new things it is expensive...others can copy for a lot less. If you want real reliability buy a Toyota....good solid old style tried and true technology....but, not very exciting.

Some of us have passion, a soul, and we appreciate a finely made precision engineered car, and will pay extra to drive it....because you only live once (as far as I know).

As an three times German, two times Japanese, one time American vehicle owner, I'm not going to speak about the "soul" of the car. I will speak about engineering as achieving a specific objective. To say Lexus ES350 is less engineered than say BMW 430, is in my view, wrong. I'm almost certain the amount of engineering that goes into both vehicles is probably the same. However, the objectives behind both of those vehicles were different. BMW was engineered to provide a lot of "driving entertainment" combined with best fuel efficiency and power ratio in the market. Its interior design has always lagged the competition and don't even let me start with a dashboard (they seem to be using the one for 30 years). Apparently, best interior award has not been stated objective in Munich. Their ergonomics are usually very good, but some of their electronics are simply driving me nuts. The navigation feature in my previous 3-series, while had a nice screen and good looking map, had a pathetic database that was bordering on pettiness (like no listing for auto parts stores). Voice recognition system was so bad that my German consultant IN MUNICH told me not to bother. Apparently, that wasn't priority, either. Lexus ES is engineered to provide maximum reliability and great interior. Surprisingly gas mileage is lagging, but mostly because Germans were forced to downsize to meet their CAFE limits, while Lexus could lean on Corolla to get it there, so they only started engine downsizing now.

To finish the example, my both Subarus were engineered around handling (AWD), speed (WRX, STI) and safety. Interiors were spartan and premium features lagging. However, whatever was there worked so well, it was near perfection. Gas mileage looked pathetic in comparison to other compacts, due to both speed and weight, but any time somebody else came up with something similar (like hot hatch and AWD), they magically couln't get to Subaru's level. Same thing was true on their pedestrian lines, when FWD cars beat them, but AWD versions of same cars just could not. Suddenly, you realize Subaru was actually better than people thought, when you entered their playground. So it was all about the objective.

BTW, as we spoke about war here. German war machines had superior parameters on the battlefield. But if you needed a new transmission on the Panther, you had to send it to a shop thousand miles away. Even its staggered caterpillar tracks, while providing great traction, when damaged (by a mine, for example), they could not retread them on the field. This became a problem over time, as the engineering objectives were probably incorrectly set vs. the needs.

fintail

No doubt a big part was to keep them from the Soviets. Bragging rights and ego were big too. Not to mention, we probably owed it to some to keep them away from the Soviets, given the very real ideal of "western betrayal". IMO Patton was right in wanting to drive Stalin out of Europe.

To many, a car simply running with low expense isn't the end all be all. My mom's Camry could probably outlive us all. Not everyone yearns for that. Complex prestige brand cars have never been about low cost/low risk driving, not when new, not as they age. You gotta pay to play. Even Lexus and Genesis have Achilles heels.

jmonroe said:

I not going to argue about the US going after the "best" rocket scientists that Germany had, since that is a fact. But the biggest reason for that was to make sure that the Soviet Union didn't get them. OK, now we have them but what good is a big gun if you can't hit the target? That is the technology that I am talking about.

And you are correct again, an Elantra is more than enough to get you to and from the grocery store and you'll have a lot of reliability doing that for quite a few years. But, when you you're willing to spend more for some luxury you shouldn't have to hold your breath when the warranty is gone.

jmonroe

ab348

explorerx4 said:

I guess the GM car engine guys never speak with the truck engine guys.

"During the design of [turbocharged] engines, we are always struggling about where are we going to put the turbos," said Jordan Lee, chief engineer for GM's V-8 engines.