Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

Mr_Shiftright

I dropped collision on the Mini and the old Dodge truck--just comprehensive on the Mini and just basic on the truck.

They are expendable and I'm $600 bucks to the good.

I have been parking the Mini under an old tree, but so far, no luck.

qbrozen

ab348 said:

Well, Johan de Nysschen is gone from Cadillac:

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180418/OEM02/180419753/gm-replaces-cadillac-chief-de-nysschen?cciid=email-autonews-blast

Oh boy. That's worrisome. I liked him.

fintail

It's a good old boys club, he'll land elsewhere with a dose of goofy model name nomenclature and a whiff of arrogance.

ab348 said:

Well, Johan de Nysschen is gone from Cadillac:

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180418/OEM02/180419753/gm-replaces-cadillac-chief-de-nysschen?cciid=email-autonews-blast

Mr_Shiftright

Cadillac needs to go back to its roots---seriously. Big, poofy, glitzy barges and SUVs. People are now driving well into their 80s and they don't care as much about prestige and public image-------and, a lot of them still have money.

I'll never dance in Swan Lake, and Cadillac can't build a Mercedes or BMW, so forget it.

bwia

ab348 said:

Well, Johan de Nysschen is gone from Cadillac: http://www.autonews.com/article/20180418/OEM02/180419753/gm-replaces-cadillac-chief-de-nysschen?cciid=email-autonews-blast

The problem with Cadillac is Cadillac. It wants to reposition itself as a luxury "sports" sedan a la BMW and Audi, but alas, it has missed the mark. A 100 years of brand equity was further destroyed when De Nysschen moved  Cadillac's HQ to NYC without anything tangible to show for it... except for his new nomenclature CTS-3, 4, 5 and CTS 6.

xwesx

jmonroe said:

xwesx said:

tbirdmarco said:

 Well you better get that cruise diesel soon take a road trip somewhere to get it though 

That's about the only way a I roll!

Let's see... my 2010 Forester was in Seattle, so about 2,200 miles. The 2013 Passat was Ohio (4,000), then the Q7 in Texas (5,500), and the 2013 Forester in Illinois (about 4,500, with a deviation getting home in order to visit family in Oregon).

So, yeah, hopefully I can get a good length trip in to bring the next car home. Just enough to stretch its highway legs a bit.

WOW, I thought I was kinda weird going out of state to get cars. Got my last three cars like that. Two in Ohio and the latest one, the '15 Genny in Fairfax VA, (just outside of DC). Driving those distances from an eastern suburb of the Burgh is about my limit. Having to get an oil change after driving back home with a new car is, well, waaaay beyond my limit. You may even have to check the tires for wear after the trips you make. I heard Son #1, who lives about 10 miles from me, say one time, that he'd go as far as Chicago to get a car but he'd only have to check the washer fluid after a trip like that.

I gather Alaskan dealers are tough to deal with, at least for you.

jmonroe

Well, there is the dealer mentality of having a captive audience (which they somewhat do since so many local folks are willing to pay full MSRP for even common cars), but then there is also the relative scarcity of some types of vehicles. The last three (Passat, Q7, and Forester) were simply unobtanium anywhere in the state. And, of course, if you *could* find one, you had a population size of exactly one from which to choose. The VAG products were both diesel, and that's just a rare bird in a state with a population of ~700,000.

Our Forester is a replacement for the 2010 Forester, and my wife wanted "the same car," which meant there were color, option, and transmission requirements that made finding a common Alaskan car not so common after all.

However, since I really enjoy taking long road trips, the distance to find the cars was no deterrent for me at all. In fact, on the Forester, @nyccarguy actually went and looked at one an hour away from him all the way on the east coast! Ultimately, I ended up getting the "same car" in Illinois, but I would have had no qualms about traveling the extra miles to buy the CT car.

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright said:

ab348 said:

Michaell said:

snakeweasel said:

last year we hired a 25 year old in the same job I'm doing at about 1/5th less money that I was hired at over 10 years earlier. Based on the last few years of wage increases it will be at least 10 years to get to where I was over 10 years ago.

I am just waiting it out to retirement.

My former employer is on a similar kick.

The CEO calls it the "no collar workforce".

I call it borderline age discrimination.

I hate to sound like a cranky old man (wait, what?) but I despair for this generation. I had a young lady, very nice, whom I inherited in my last job from her boss who got fired and who I replaced in his role while keeping my previous one. She had been there 4 or 5 years by then. I had always found her pleasant and personable but never had to work with her.

She was doing media relations and would have a nervousness/anxiety attack whenever she had to field a question or god forbid do an on-camera piece. Keep in mind this is something she allegedly was trained to do in school.

OK, not everyone is cut out for that, lets find something else. So we reassigned her to event management. Nope, that didn't work either, too much for her to juggle, deadlines stressed her out.

Next I tried her in internal communications, internal website, newsletter, etc. A disaster. It became a black hole, stuff went in, very little came out.

I retired at that point.

She hung on a while longer doing god knows what and I notice now she has moved to a govt job where she is responsible for employee engagement and internal workforce opinion surveys. I suspect that will not work out either.

How many chances does such a person expect before they get the message they need to find something else they can actually do? The sad part is I suspect she thinks she is doing great.

I find many 20-somethings I deal with in various businesses very unimpressive. But occasionally I find someone in that same age group who blows me away with how good they are. So I don't know if it is a generational thing or just poor education and training.

I tend to blame it on the "self-esteem" movement---as a consequence many Americans think they are a lot better than they really are. That leads to a sense of entitlement and takes the "fire out of their belly" as Lee Iacocca used to say.

Now everyone's kid is a genius.

No, little Mozart writing concertos at age 12 was a genius.

Because the coach said, "line up kid's...here's your participation trophy".

It's not working.

jmonroe

stickguy

I don't pay much more than Mike, and I got 3 cars, full coverage, and a kid on the policy. Going to save a bundle in a few months when I drop one car, and she goes off on her own insurance.

qbrozen

Caddy didn't miss the mark. By commonly found accounts (both professional and nonprofessional), the CTS and ATS are tremendous drivers' cars, especially in V sport and V trims. But it still has the wrong badge to be popular enough.

ab348

bwia said:

ab348 said:

Well, Johan de Nysschen is gone from Cadillac:

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180418/OEM02/180419753/gm-replaces-cadillac-chief-de-nysschen?cciid=email-autonews-blast

The problem with Cadillac is Cadillac. It wants to reposition itself as a luxury "sports" sedan a la BMW and Audi, but alas, it has missed the mark. A 100 years of brand equity was further destroyed when De Nysschen moved  Cadillac's HQ to NYC without anything tangible to show for it... except for his new nomenclature CTS-3, 4, 5 and CTS 6.




Well, I would argue that 100 years of brand equity was destroyed starting in the '70s when they just became a bigger and more tarted up Chevy with more plastic wood and plastichrome and maybe a better grade of crushed velour on the seats. You can't sell those kind of soft, floaty cars like they were building up to 2003 or so any more.

Their current fleet is pretty good in terms of matching up with BMW and M-B except for the SUVs, but they are getting there on those too. I think the nomenclature bit is a red herring - do anyone's model names resonate with people any more? The problem in many markets is the dealer network and the legacy reputation that still carries on. You can't sell an old man's car to many younger buyers, but you can do the reverse.

nyccarguy

xwesx said:

jmonroe said:

xwesx said:

tbirdmarco said:

 Well you better get that cruise diesel soon take a road trip somewhere to get it though 

That's about the only way a I roll!

Let's see... my 2010 Forester was in Seattle, so about 2,200 miles. The 2013 Passat was Ohio (4,000), then the Q7 in Texas (5,500), and the 2013 Forester in Illinois (about 4,500, with a deviation getting home in order to visit family in Oregon).

So, yeah, hopefully I can get a good length trip in to bring the next car home. Just enough to stretch its highway legs a bit.

WOW, I thought I was kinda weird going out of state to get cars. Got my last three cars like that. Two in Ohio and the latest one, the '15 Genny in Fairfax VA, (just outside of DC). Driving those distances from an eastern suburb of the Burgh is about my limit. Having to get an oil change after driving back home with a new car is, well, waaaay beyond my limit. You may even have to check the tires for wear after the trips you make. I heard Son #1, who lives about 10 miles from me, say one time, that he'd go as far as Chicago to get a car but he'd only have to check the washer fluid after a trip like that.

I gather Alaskan dealers are tough to deal with, at least for you.

jmonroe

Well, there is the dealer mentality of having a captive audience (which they somewhat do since so many local folks are willing to pay full MSRP for even common cars), but then there is also the relative scarcity of some types of vehicles. The last three (Passat, Q7, and Forester) were simply unobtanium anywhere in the state. And, of course, if you *could* find one, you had a population size of exactly one from which to choose. The VAG products were both diesel, and that's just a rare bird in a state with a population of ~700,000.

Our Forester is a replacement for the 2010 Forester, and my wife wanted "the same car," which meant there were color, option, and transmission requirements that made finding a common Alaskan car not so common after all.

However, since I really enjoy taking long road trips, the distance to find the cars was no deterrent for me at all. In fact, on the Forester, @nyccarguy actually went and looked at one an hour away from him all the way on the east coast! Ultimately, I ended up getting the "same car" in Illinois, but I would have had no qualms about traveling the extra miles to buy the CT car.

By the way, nothing was better than the look on the guy's face when I told him I'm test driving the car for a friend of mine from Alaska that I met online!

stickguy

I got that look when I stopped at a BMW by me to look at a car for a guy from Colorado. Whose last name I don't think I even knew at the time.

roadburner

qbrozen said:

Caddy didn't miss the mark. By commonly found accounts (both professional and nonprofessional), the CTS and ATS are tremendous drivers' cars, especially in V sport and V trims. But it still has the wrong badge to be popular enough.

The "Standard of the World" was run into the ground in the '80s; you can lose a carefully cultivated brand image in less than a decade- and it usually takes 15 years or more to rebuild or establish one

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

Caddy didn't miss the mark. By commonly found accounts (both professional and nonprofessional), the CTS and ATS are tremendous drivers' cars, especially in V sport and V trims. But it still has the wrong badge to be popular enough.

The people who buy Cadillacs don't want a "driver's car" and the people who want "a driver's car" don't want a Cadillac.

"Know your audience" is my advice.

explorerx4

Cadillac is hurting on the CUV/SUV front and I read he wanted to still concentrate on cars.

driver100

jmonroe said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

ab348 said:

Michaell said:

snakeweasel said:

last year we hired a 25 year old in the same job I'm doing at about 1/5th less money that I was hired at over 10 years earlier. Based on the last few years of wage increases it will be at least 10 years to get to where I was over 10 years ago.

I am just waiting it out to retirement.

My former employer is on a similar kick.

The CEO calls it the "no collar workforce".

I call it borderline age discrimination.

I hate to sound like a cranky old man (wait, what?) but I despair for this generation. I had a young lady, very nice, whom I inherited in my last job from her boss who got fired and who I replaced in his role while keeping my previous one. She had been there 4 or 5 years by then. I had always found her pleasant and personable but never had to work with her.

She was doing media relations and would have a nervousness/anxiety attack whenever she had to field a question or god forbid do an on-camera piece. Keep in mind this is something she allegedly was trained to do in school.

OK, not everyone is cut out for that, lets find something else. So we reassigned her to event management. Nope, that didn't work either, too much for her to juggle, deadlines stressed her out.

Next I tried her in internal communications, internal website, newsletter, etc. A disaster. It became a black hole, stuff went in, very little came out.

I retired at that point.

She hung on a while longer doing god knows what and I notice now she has moved to a govt job where she is responsible for employee engagement and internal workforce opinion surveys. I suspect that will not work out either.

How many chances does such a person expect before they get the message they need to find something else they can actually do? The sad part is I suspect she thinks she is doing great.

I find many 20-somethings I deal with in various businesses very unimpressive. But occasionally I find someone in that same age group who blows me away with how good they are. So I don't know if it is a generational thing or just poor education and training.

I tend to blame it on the "self-esteem" movement---as a consequence many Americans think they are a lot better than they really are. That leads to a sense of entitlement and takes the "fire out of their belly" as Lee Iacocca used to say.

Now everyone's kid is a genius.

No, little Mozart writing concertos at age 12 was a genius.

Because the coach said, "line up kid's...here's your participation trophy".

It's not working.

jmonroe

And what happened to "failing". Kids learn something when they fail, like what not to do.(Agreed 12X now)

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

The people who buy Cadillacs don't want a "driver's car" and the people who want "a driver's car" don't want a Cadillac.

"Know your audience" is my advice.

Except me. And the others who bought a V Sport or V. ;b
Some folks don't care about the badge, only what is under it. Sadly, that population is too small.

driver100

I like the looks of a Cadillac......but it is risky, I know I love driving a European car, so why chance getting a Caddie and then regreting it. Plus, I'll get killed on the trade-in if I want to come back again.

Not much upside to trying one....but, lots of downside. I wonder how many other Euro car owners feel the same.

Besides my wife would disown me if I bought a Caddie, I know what she would be thinking;

qbrozen

Same downsides to Euro, IMHO. I've run the numbers before: a CTS and 5-series depreciate similarly. Neither is a smart buy new.

bwia

Edit...

Cadillac is not an aspirational brand except for the Escalade. Yet their list price is as high or even higher than genuine luxury models.

American auto makers are not aiming for highest and best quality at the high end nor the lowest price at the low end. Since they can't effectively compete at either end of the spectrum their defacto strategy is the mass market for average vehicles at average price and quality. In baseball one cannot win with such a strategy. 

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

ab348 said:

Michaell said:

snakeweasel said:

last year we hired a 25 year old in the same job I'm doing at about 1/5th less money that I was hired at over 10 years earlier. Based on the last few years of wage increases it will be at least 10 years to get to where I was over 10 years ago.

I am just waiting it out to retirement.

My former employer is on a similar kick.

The CEO calls it the "no collar workforce".

I call it borderline age discrimination.

I hate to sound like a cranky old man (wait, what?) but I despair for this generation. I had a young lady, very nice, whom I inherited in my last job from her boss who got fired and who I replaced in his role while keeping my previous one. She had been there 4 or 5 years by then. I had always found her pleasant and personable but never had to work with her.

She was doing media relations and would have a nervousness/anxiety attack whenever she had to field a question or god forbid do an on-camera piece. Keep in mind this is something she allegedly was trained to do in school.

OK, not everyone is cut out for that, lets find something else. So we reassigned her to event management. Nope, that didn't work either, too much for her to juggle, deadlines stressed her out.

Next I tried her in internal communications, internal website, newsletter, etc. A disaster. It became a black hole, stuff went in, very little came out.

I retired at that point.

She hung on a while longer doing god knows what and I notice now she has moved to a govt job where she is responsible for employee engagement and internal workforce opinion surveys. I suspect that will not work out either.

How many chances does such a person expect before they get the message they need to find something else they can actually do? The sad part is I suspect she thinks she is doing great.

I find many 20-somethings I deal with in various businesses very unimpressive. But occasionally I find someone in that same age group who blows me away with how good they are. So I don't know if it is a generational thing or just poor education and training.

I tend to blame it on the "self-esteem" movement---as a consequence many Americans think they are a lot better than they really are. That leads to a sense of entitlement and takes the "fire out of their belly" as Lee Iacocca used to say.

Now everyone's kid is a genius.

No, little Mozart writing concertos at age 12 was a genius.

Because the coach said, "line up kid's...here's your participation trophy".

It's not working.

jmonroe

And what happened to "failing". Kids learn something when they fail, like what not to do.(Agreed 12X now)

"Failing"!! You had to remind me of 5th grade, huh? :@

You have a hellava way of agreeing with someone but I understand all too well what you mean.

BTW, you gotta stop counting the agreements. I'm not so sure you're smart enough to count as high as it's going to get.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

Same downsides to Euro, IMHO. I've run the numbers before: a CTS and 5-series depreciate similarly. Neither is a smart buy new.

I'd be hesitant to buy either out of warranty too.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

The people who buy Cadillacs don't want a "driver's car" and the people who want "a driver's car" don't want a Cadillac.

"Know your audience" is my advice.

Except me. And the others who bought a V Sport or V. ;b
Some folks don't care about the badge, only what is under it. Sadly, that population is too small.

It's not about the car itself---that's kind of the point. Cadillac can't live off people like you.

Is CUE still god-awful or is it better now?

imidazol97

Today is tax day.
To all those commenting that folks should file electronically, I looked up the info now and all the forms I need to file and other requirements mean that I could have filed electronically. Lots of typing, but I could have done it.

I guess I just like paper filing and like harrassing them with return receipts proving I sent the stuff to them.

explorerx4

@laurasdada
I asked one of my kids who lives in the Cleveland area about local income taxes.
Depending where you live, you might have to file returns for the location you work in and another for the location where you live.

tbirdmarco

 Well very interesting above guys 

tjc78

@Mr_Shiftright

I agree with you 100% on Caddy.  They should concentrate on making 4 cars

1 - A soft cushy FWD Midisze. Isolated from the road with the corporate 3.6 V6 Think Avalon or ES350

2 - Buick Enclave / RX350 Clone 

3 - large RWD sedan that can be a limo.  Need fleet sales 

4 - Escalade (cant kill that one). 

jmonroe

explorerx4 said:

@laurasdada
I asked one of my kids who lives in the Cleveland area about local income taxes.
Depending where you live, you might have to file returns for the location you work in and another for the location where you live.

This is what happens when you help in putting out a river fire.

jmonroe

explorerx4

@tjc78,
The Aviator could be a game changer.
Cadillac doesn't have anything to compete with that.
As soon as it was announced, one of my kids was asking me about buying a CPO.
It won't even be on sale for a while!
Could be just a rumor, but read that the Escalade is going to get IRS due to new Navigator.

Mr_Shiftright

tjc78 said:

@Mr_Shiftright

I agree with you 100% on Caddy.  They should concentrate on making 4 cars

1 - A soft cushy FWD Midisze. Isolated from the road with the corporate 3.6 V6 Think Avalon or ES350

2 - Buick Enclave / RX350 Clone 

3 - large RWD sedan that can be a limo.  Need fleet sales 

4 - Escalade (cant kill that one). 

That's a good list! Cadillac should definitely stay out of the prestige market and move to entry level lux or maybe the lower end of the full-size Lexus.

If you think about it, this makes sense. What has always been the criticism of Cadillac these past 20 years?

That the car is never any nicer than it had to be.

So make 'em only as nice as they need to be, and only as competent as they need to be.

Cadillac buyers probably won't be driving too much on the Autobahn, They want to set cruise control at 75 mph and arrive safe and relaxed. Celebs and athletes aren't going to do Paris-Dakar or the Carrera-PanAmericana. Just get me to the theater or arena on time in a nice cushy leather seat and an isolated environment.

And there's always airports, weddings and prom nights.

If kudos in performance-oriented automotive magazine articles were the only thing selling cars, then the Camry wouldn't even exist.

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GyRrOT9fZmQ

tjc78

explorerx4 said:

@tjc78, The Aviator could be a game changer. Cadillac doesn't have anything to compete with that. As soon as it was announced, one of my kids was asking me about buying a CPO. It won't even be on sale for a while! Could be just a rumor, but read that the Escalade is going to get IRS due to new Navigator.

I guess the Aviator is Explorer based?  Nice looking rig and yes Caddy has no true competitor to that. 

coldinohio

Cadillac just fired deNyshccen or he left....

qbrozen

tjc78 said:

@Mr_Shiftright

I agree with you 100% on Caddy.  They should concentrate on making 4 cars

1 - A soft cushy FWD Midisze. Isolated from the road with the corporate 3.6 V6 Think Avalon or ES350

2 - Buick Enclave / RX350 Clone 

3 - large RWD sedan that can be a limo.  Need fleet sales 

4 - Escalade (cant kill that one). 

So you want them to be Lincoln? That strategy isn't working too well for Ford.

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

The people who buy Cadillacs don't want a "driver's car" and the people who want "a driver's car" don't want a Cadillac. "Know your audience" is my advice.

Except me. And the others who bought a V Sport or V. ;b Some folks don't care about the badge, only what is under it. Sadly, that population is too small.

It's not about the car itself---that's kind of the point. Cadillac can't live off people like you. Is CUE still god-awful or is it better now?

I never had any issue with CUE. Not sure why people complained about it. Chrysler uconnect has always been praised by comparison, yet we have exactly the opposite experience. Uconnect is frustrating. The sync in my Ford is pretty good but still glitches once in a while (like tonight where it was showing me it was playing mysic off my phone yet FM radio was coming out the speakers). My Infiniti worked well enough but wasn't exactly cutting edge. Given the added benefit of controlling features of CUE from my phone when away from the car, I'd have to give it the nod as the best system I have owned thus far.

as a side note, my Caddy had the nicest interior of any car I have ever owned.

tjc78

I not sure of sales figures, but based on the amount I see the MKZ and MKX outsell the CTS and XT5.

I agree the Caddies are more engaging cars, but I have to also agree with Shifty that they should go back to their roots.  

Soft and cushy has worked for Lexus for a long time. 

fintail

I don't know if I can see complaints about nomenclature as invalid. People howled when DeNysschen pulled the same trick at Infiniti, and I can't say I believe Infiniti would be a going concern at all without its CUVs/SUVs and fleet volumes - Q50 can't pull the weight alone (I see more Lambos than Q70s). IMO he used the exact same playbook at Caddy that he used at Infiniti - it didn't work for the former, and I don't think was working for the latter.

Dealer experience might need work, too. From what I can see, they aren't quite up to par with the Germans, around here anyway, not to mention Lexus.

ab348

tjc78 said:

I not sure of sales figures, but based on the amount I see the MKZ and MKX outsell the CTS and XT5.

I agree the Caddies are more engaging cars, but I have to also agree with Shifty that they should go back to their roots.  

Soft and cushy has worked for Lexus for a long time. 

The MKZ outsells the CTS but the XTS outsells both of them.

The XT5 sells about 50% more units than the MKX.

abacomike

Mr_Shiftright said:

Caddy didn't miss the mark. By commonly found accounts (both professional and nonprofessional), the CTS and ATS are tremendous drivers' cars, especially in V sport and V trims. But it still has the wrong badge to be popular enough.

The people who buy Cadillacs don't want a "driver's car" and the people who want "a driver's car" don't want a Cadillac. "Know your audience" is my advice.

The market niche for Cadillac was always the middle aged to older aged buyer in search of a cruiser for the highway as well as elegance.  That has changed since the 1980’s and 1990’s.

The brand continues to attract the older clientele, however their advertising is aimed at the 20-40 year old population segment.  Their quality control has improved and their use of up-to-date technology is impressive.  The ATS and CTS are in need of some major design improvements as these models retain the same basic design as those of the latter part of the first decade of this century.

Their SUV’s are sharp looking and even the ATS and CTS models continue to be attractive.  I agree with Shifty that people do not necessarily go to Cadillac dealerships to buy a “true” driver’s car.  They go there for luxury and elegance at an affordable price.  Their performance “V” models are impressive power cars - but for that same price ($92,000+) there is stiff competition from German manufacturers.

But I still have to compliment the Cadillac Division for turning around the entire line - manufacturing and technology.  In fact, GM is building excellent vehicles in all its Divisions.

nyccarguy

GM does build some nice vehicles.  There are a few things that they need to do better.  I’m specifically talking about my Dad’s 2018 Yukon.  Build quality is excellent.  Things seem to be screwed together nicely.  His truck stickers at $65,000.  At this price point, GM should be embarrassed at the stock floor mats that come with it.  I’ve held wet napkins with more substance.  I also believe they should make Xenon lights standard (they are only on the Denali models).  Maybe make the Denali models with LED lights and give the lesser SL & SLTs Xenon Lights.

driver100

qbrozen said:

Same downsides to Euro, IMHO. I've run the numbers before: a CTS and 5-series depreciate similarly. Neither is a smart buy new.

They do depreciate similarly....on paper, but, I have a feeling that if you bring a Cadillac in to trade on a new MB or BMW they won't want it as much as they would one of their own. They use any excuse, to give you less.

qbrozen

abacomike said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Caddy didn't miss the mark. By commonly found accounts (both professional and nonprofessional), the CTS and ATS are tremendous drivers' cars, especially in V sport and V trims. But it still has the wrong badge to be popular enough.

The people who buy Cadillacs don't want a "driver's car" and the people who want "a driver's car" don't want a Cadillac. "Know your audience" is my advice.

The market niche for Cadillac was always the middle aged to older aged buyer in search of a cruiser for the highway as well as elegance.  That has changed since the 1980’s and 1990’s.

The brand continues to attract the older clientele, however their advertising is aimed at the 20-40 year old population segment.  Their quality control has improved and their use of up-to-date technology is impressive.  The ATS and CTS are in need of some major design improvements as these models retain the same basic design as those of the latter part of the first decade of this century.

Their SUV’s are sharp looking and even the ATS and CTS models continue to be attractive.  I agree with Shifty that people do not necessarily go to Cadillac dealerships to buy a “true” driver’s car.  They go there for luxury and elegance at an affordable price.  Their performance “V” models are impressive power cars - but for that same price ($92,000+) there is stiff competition from German manufacturers.

But I still have to compliment the Cadillac Division for turning around the entire line - manufacturing and technology.  In fact, GM is building excellent vehicles in all its Divisions.

Just to clarify: M5 starts $20k higher than a CTSV

driver100

Some older people think Cadillac means I have 'made it".
They think a BMW or MB is one of those furrin cars......like a Fiat or something.
I know of a few people who buy Lincolns, because it gets them into a premium brand, for a small extra price.

xwesx

tjc78 said:

I guess the Aviator is Explorer based?  Nice looking rig and yes Caddy has no true competitor to that. 

I doubt many people remember it, but the Aviator nameplate existed a while ago (10-15 years? I don't recall) as a rebadged Explorer. That was back when Mercury was around, too, so you had Explorer, Mountaineer, and Aviator, which were all identical except perhaps their light assemblies and grilles. Mountaineer may have even been identical in those, too. I remember a friend bough a Mercury Mountaineer in 2001, which he had for a long time, and I think it was only different from an Explorer in which logo was on the front and back. That's what killed the Mercury division - there was literally nothing to set it apart from Ford.

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gB613jY1p-I

tjc78

xwesx said:

I guess the Aviator is Explorer based?  Nice looking rig and yes Caddy has no true competitor to that. 

I doubt many people remember it, but the Aviator nameplate existed a while ago (10-15 years? I don't recall) as a rebadged Explorer. That was back when Mercury was around, too, so you had Explorer, Mountaineer, and Aviator, which were all identical except perhaps their light assemblies and grilles. Mountaineer may have even been identical in those, too. I remember a friend bough a Mercury Mountaineer in 2001, which he had for a long time, and I think it was only different from an Explorer in which logo was on the front and back. That's what killed the Mercury division - there was literally nothing to set it apart from Ford.

I remember it which is why I immediatey asked if the new one was Explorer based.   I think the old one had an engine choice that was exclusive too.  

stickguy

just watched a couple of Jetta preview drive videos. sounds impressive. If I was shopping large compact sedans soon, this is probably at the top of the list.

ab348

abacomike said:

The ATS and CTS are in need of some major design improvements as these models retain the same basic design as those of the latter part of the first decade of this century.

Their SUV’s are sharp looking and even the ATS and CTS models continue to be attractive.

Quite incorrect on the design/platform of the ATS/CTS. They are on the Alpha platform which had its debut in 2012.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Alpha_platform

The latest version of the Camaro is now on this platform as well.

As was said, they have been trying to move the image from the gold chain/white belt & shoes set to one closer to BMW/M-B/Audi. Whether they will ever be able to do that is an open question. But IMO the cars themselves are not the problem. I could see this coming with Johan though as he is not a GM kind of guy.

abacomike

qbrozen said:

abacomike said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Caddy didn't miss the mark. By commonly found accounts (both professional and nonprofessional), the CTS and ATS are tremendous drivers' cars, especially in V sport and V trims. But it still has the wrong badge to be popular enough.

The people who buy Cadillacs don't want a "driver's car" and the people who want "a driver's car" don't want a Cadillac. "Know your audience" is my advice.

The market niche for Cadillac was always the middle aged to older aged buyer in search of a cruiser for the highway as well as elegance.  That has changed since the 1980’s and 1990’s.

The brand continues to attract the older clientele, however their advertising is aimed at the 20-40 year old population segment.  Their quality control has improved and their use of up-to-date technology is impressive.  The ATS and CTS are in need of some major design improvements as these models retain the same basic design as those of the latter part of the first decade of this century.

Their SUV’s are sharp looking and even the ATS and CTS models continue to be attractive.  I agree with Shifty that people do not necessarily go to Cadillac dealerships to buy a “true” driver’s car.  They go there for luxury and elegance at an affordable price.  Their performance “V” models are impressive power cars - but for that same price ($92,000+) there is stiff competition from German manufacturers.

But I still have to compliment the Cadillac Division for turning around the entire line - manufacturing and technology.  In fact, GM is building excellent vehicles in all its Divisions.

Just to clarify: M5 starts $20k higher than a CTSV

Appreciate the clarification, Q, however one cannot compare a CTSV to an M5 in terms of handling and stability.  The $20,000 price differential is pocket change when considering the purchase of a muscle car, IMO.  20% more for an M5 over a CTSV is worth higher out of pocket costs.  Even the E63 is a preferred pick over the CTSV at 20% more, IMO.

driver100

Wasn't the early Explorer matched with a Mercury Tribute....but the Tribute engine really came from Mazda?
I always liked the Milan styling over the Fusion.