Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

fintail

Europeans have debadged for 50 years for exactly that - hides that your 316i isn't an M3, and also a way to hide your E63s in a sea of E250.

roadburner

A friend of mine used to autocross a seriously modded E36 M3. Just for giggles he removed the ///M3 badge and replaced it with a German 316i badge. Several months later the magazine European Car published a letter from a clueless nitwit asking where he could buy a 316i like the one he saw that set FTD at a local SCCA event...

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

A friend of mine used to autocross a seriously modded E36 M3. Just for giggles he removed the ///M3 badge and replaced it with a German 316i badge. Several months later the magazine European Car published a letter from a clueless nitwit asking where he could buy a 316i like the one he saw that set FTD at a local SCCA event...

And then there are the insecure drivers who have stripes, wings and 5.0 badging on their 4 cyl Fox body. Goes both ways I guess.

nyccarguy

Badges & Stickers add HP!

driver100

I thought I would be the 1st to post this morning since it is 11:30 a.m. In London, but, old farmer beat me - 6:30 a.m. Eastern time. I guess farmers do get up eariy, even if they drive cars instead of farm.

Our hotel is behind Harrods....don't worry, Mrs. Driver got it for a huge discount. The place has limousines all over the place waiting around while the masters go in to shop.

We scored tickets for Hamilton....waited in line for returns. We are probably the only people in the world who don't like it. All rap music that you can't make out with incessant booming noise. Some songs were good but not great. It is long and tedious. The actual story is interest, but the play is sluggish and dull. Dream Girls was entertaining with much better music. We will see Motown again because I want to see something I know we will enjoy though we have seen it before.

If I go to a play I want to come out feeling better than when I went in, and I want to be entertained. Hamilton was like a long drawn out history lesson, and rap music is something I would never choose to listen to.

driver100

nyccarguy said:

Badges & Stickers add HP!

At least in your own mind.

tjc78

driver100 said:

I thought I would be the 1st to post this morning since it is 11:30 a.m. In London, but, old farmer beat me - 6:30 a.m. Eastern time. I guess farmers do get up eariy, even if they drive cars instead of farm.

Our hotel is behind Harrods....don't worry, Mrs. Driver got it for a huge discount. The place has limousines all over the place waiting around while the masters go in to shop.

We scored tickets for Hamilton....waited in line for returns. We are probably the only people in the world who don't like it. All rap music that you can't make out with incessant booming noise. Some songs were good but not great. It is long and tedious. The actual story is interest, but the play is sluggish and dull. Dream Girls was entertaining with much better music. We will see Motown again because I want to see something I know we will enjoy though we have seen it before.

If I go to a play I want to come out feeling better than when I went in, and I want to be entertained. Hamilton was like a long drawn out history lesson, and rap music is something I would never choose to listen to.

Dreamgirls is still playing? That goes back to the early 80s. Great story and soundtrack. The movie was ok, but the play is better.

suydam

I’m curious. Did you not read any reviews of Hamilton to see whether it was something you might enjoy? Because its use of urban hip hop is pretty well known. It’s no fun (and expensive) to sit through something you don’t like.

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

Yeah, never quite got or understood the "maniac" part. I just assume they got somewhere to be. It doesn't offend my ego when someone passes me, which will almost always be on the left if I can help it (sometimes you do go into Lemming mode in the passing lane in very heavy traffic), but 99% of the time I'm yielding to faster traffic. I have hope their front bumper is more intimidating than mine to the guy in front impeding traffic (and hope they'll be a more aggressive tailgater too). There are go-getters, and there are Lemmings. Go-Getters don't do Lemming well. By the way, some commutes are pretty long for many people. I have 30 miles to cover, I could easily get a few miles ahead of you, especially if I caught one light you didn't before getting on the freeway. Yes, the chances of an accident in that short span are low, but they are possible. I've encountered bad wrecks where I was early enough on scene that traffic hadn't gone haywire yet, and law enforcement hadn't bottle-necked the situation even worse yet. So while I was only slowed down 2 or 3 minutes at most, the people 3 miles back might be slowed down 10 times more.

Why am I not surprised that you don't understand the maniac part. Everyone has someplace to be, most people plan accordingly. my ego isn't hurt by someone passing me either, it's just that I don't understand the mentality that going faster saves so much time when in reality it doesn't ( especially in heavy rush hour traffic). 

The average commute in the US is just over 25 minutes, only a small percentage have 30 miles or more to commute. My 12.5 mile commute comes in at about that 25 minute time. Now if the two of us drive that commute at the same time with you going as fast as you can and me doing speed limit I will guarentee you that after 11.5 miles you will be able to see me in your rearview mirror. 

As for the lights, the ones you can make by speeding I will also make doing speed limit. The lights I will get caught by so will you, you will just get to them sooner. Those lights you usually have to sit through at least one cycle before getting through.

Seriously the only way that I can make this commute any faster is by leaving a lot earlier or by taking my motorcycle and split lanes. Try this, drive your commute and don't exceed the speed limit and see how much time you really save.

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

Actually, the Solomon curve goes parabolically higher and steeper on the slower side than the faster side (slightly). And in fact, going slightly over the average flow is the bottom of the curve, not zero. Lastly, weaving is a symptom of a disease. That disease is left lane camping. Eradicating left lane camping makes weaving extinct, among many other undesirable behaviors. Speed differential hazards are almost wiped out if you have lane discipline and strict adherence to passing laws. The reason speed differentials are so hazardous in the USA is because of our poor adherence to lane laws as a group of people.

There is a flaw with the Solomon curve, that is it didn't take into account accidents involving vehicles that had slowed down to negotiate a turn. Subsequent studies have supported Solomon but several (I will try to find one) found that around 45% of "slower" moving vehicles were originally traveling with or above the flow of traffic and had only slowed down to turn off the road. When they adjusted their findings for this the bottom of that curve moves away from that slightly faster than average that you proport.

As for weaving being a symptom, it does take two to tangle. While not defending LLC'ing weaving is also a symptom of fast aggressive driving.

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

All the hypotheticals about the virtues of fast, aggressive driving made me recall that most accidents are caused by fast drivers wanting to get somewhere faster and disrupting the smooth flow of traffic causing accidents. I thought of this when the late night trucker radio was reporting a long backup on the mountain going into Tennessee at the border with Kentucky. As I understood the backup was long from on top of the mountains. TDOT was diverting traffic onto a detour route. Most likely the heavy southbound end-of-4th-of-July traffic Sunday night had an accident because of an aggressive driver taking chances. On Friday, if I understand correctly, there was a landslide on top of the mountain in the area of Stinking Creek Road and the next exit south of there. @100 will appreciate knowing he's not being slowed by the diversion of traffic onto the other side giving one lane traffic.

Actually, the main causes of wrecks are summed up by the following: 1) Distraction 2) Drowsiness 3) Drunkenness Get rid of those 3 things and Utopia is almost achieved. Number 4 is likely left lane camping, which #1 is certainly a partial, but not full cause of left lane camping. I firmly believe the "oblivious acting" is just that, an act, by a passive-aggressive hall monitor type.

I think you forgot one, check with the highway traffic safety institute.

graphicguy

Saw Hamilton in Chicago. I’m far from the age of anyone who is a hip-hop lover, but thoroughly enjoyed the play.

Certainly worth seeing in today’s world, to bring back the ideals the U.S. is supposed to represent (but seem to have lost recently).

snakeweasel

suydam said:

Oh please. How many times have I seen an impatient driver creep up the butt of the car in the left lane when traffic in ALL lanes is moving at EXACTLY the same speed because, jeez, there are a lot of cars on the road. What advantage do they think theyre going to get?

The same advantage that the drive who keeps creeping into the intersection at a red light gets.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

All the hypotheticals about the virtues of fast, aggressive driving made me recall that most accidents are caused by fast drivers wanting to get somewhere faster and disrupting the smooth flow of traffic causing accidents. On Friday, if I understand correctly, there was a landslide on top of the mountain in the area of Stinking Creek Road and the next exit south of there. @100 will appreciate knowing he's not being slowed by the diversion of traffic onto the other side giving one lane traffic.

Looks like we will be flying to Florida and back....my wife doesn't like driving that far. But, Stinking Creek Road? How would you like to tell people you live on Stinking Creek Road?

Well its better than this:

imidazol97

http://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2016/03/17/lets-not-pretend-that-hamilton-is-history/ideas/nexus/

snakeweasel

roadburner said:

Back in the days of the asinine 55 mph NMSL I regularly drove 80-85 mph on rural interstates. With the help of a 1st generation Escort and a CB I never received a ticket- or got pulled over for that matter. When I came up on a clump of slower vehicles I matched their speed and worked my way though the pack with as little drama as possible. That way I didn't antagonize the slow drivers. Now that the speed limits on limited access roads are usually 70 mph or better, I still drive 80-85, it's a comfortable speed that doesn't attract the attention of law enforcement- especially since I'm usually far from the fastest car on the road.

Back in the 55 MPH days I got nabbed for going 80+ somewhere out west. The fine was $5 and I could pay the officer. The officer told me that they had to show that they were enforcing the SL but were giving out token fines. 

To the moderators, I am accessing this on my phone, the "quote" button is right next to the "flag" button and my fat finger hit the "flag" button by accident  so if I flagged the post I am responding to please ignore. 

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

Oh please. How many times have I seen an impatient driver creep up the butt of the car in the left lane when traffic in ALL lanes is moving at EXACTLY the same speed because, jeez, there are a lot of cars on the road. What advantage do they think theyre going to get?

Why are all the cars going the same speed in all lanes? I would ticket every single one of them not in the right-most lane! EVERY-Single-One! They all deserve it. Mob mentality isn't good. Exception: No one is moving at all, bumper to bumper stop n' go.

Unfortunately a highway can only accommodate a finite number of cars and still maintain a smooth flow of traffic. During rush hour far more cars attempt to use highways than they can accommodate at a normal flow. This slows down traffic sometimes to a crawl with all lanes filled doing very close to the same speed. In this situation would you ticket all the thousands of cars? To do so would make the situation worse.

imidazol97

I've watched the aggressive driving of speeders who tailgate if someone isn't going quite as fast as they'd like in the left most lane of 3 and up freeways. They are the ones who aggressively switch lanes to the right and sometimes meet a driver merging left from lane 1 into #2, e.g..

I used to have to drive into Cincinnati for medical visits monthly for a time and I loved setting the appointment at 9:00 or so meaning I would get to drive 55 or 60 in the rightmost lane of 3 and more with the trucks and others. But I watched the other drivers in the then 3 lane interstate jockey for their ego positions in the traffic filling the 3 lanes where a lot of folks from Dayton area commute southward to Middletown and Cincinnati.

The folks who were truly in a hurry didn't spend time trying to bolster their ego by tailgating someone going 69 in traffic in the leftmost lane of 3 or 4. They carefully passed on the right if they thought there were enough spacing there to get around the errant driver in the left most lane.

If a driver was in the leftmost lane going below the speed limit, all bets were off.

snakeweasel

roadburner said:

On the subject of seat belts, I am not a big proponent of mandatory use of seat belts. Yes, they save lives. Yes, I’m using mine. Yes, they should be mandatory for kids. But if an adult wants to risk his life by not wearing a seat belt, I’m not really in favor of making that behavior illegal. With apologies to the motorcycle enthusiasts here, riding a motorcycle is inherently much more dangerous than driving a car without wearing a seat belt. Are you going to make it illegal to ride a motorcycle?

I think seat belt and helmet laws-along with pedestrian safety standards for vehicles-are an unwarranted and inadvisable interference with the law of natural selection.

I do think that ticketing someone in a steel cage with crumple zones and air bags and other safety equipment for not wearing a seat belt and giving a pass to a motorcyclist who has none of those safety features and is exposed that's not wearing a helmet a pass is hypocrisy.

imidazol97

My observations over years are that if I'm in my Chevy Cobalt in the leftmost lane of I75 or I70 going 5 over the speed limit and I do not move over as the speeding driver thinks I should, they will tailgate more aggressively than if I'm in my Malibu, a larger car. Note, there is traffic in the 1 and 2 lanes to my right, sometimes with trucks who are speed limited to 60 or 63. Note, I get over when there is a long space where I don't have to make a lane change back left to be able to keep my speed above the limit. OR this is through the 3 miles or so of urban Dayton traffic.

I also noted before I traded it for the Malibu that driving my leSabre, the 03 red one, also made me a target for more aggressive tailgating. The FOP and NRA stickers on the rear window didn't seem to slow down the stereotyping that a Buick driver was different than an Accord or Civic driver.

Do the cars make a difference in the treatment from the 5% of aggressive drivers who are left-laning?

Does the car being driven by the smaller percentage of aggressive drivers make a difference?

snakeweasel

PF_Flyer said:

In the UK... New road signs can detect mobile phones are being used in vehicles Around here, the people using their phones probably wouldn't notice the warning sign because they're glued to their phone

How does it determine if it was the driver on the phone and not a passenger, or even someone standing alongside the road? 

abacomike

I have become so frustrated with this site - I can no longer use my smart phone (iPhone) to read and /or post on any of the forums. For 6 years or longer, I have always been able to post and read posts, but now postings do not fit on my iPhone's screen - even if I turn the phone to horizontal, I still can't read anything because Edmunds has changed the site. Even on my PC (which I am now posting from) is difficult - the font has become so small, it's difficult to read.

Moderators, what have they done? Why the major change to make it impossible to use a smart phone? Why the tiny fonts? This is awful.

tbirdmarco

 Thank you road runner and I sell Hondas went well today the guy seems cool and that he’s going to do the job he supposed to do I want some bad state workers in the past over the years so we shall see just have to work on interviewing skills a bit what I was doing good on the two interviews I went on but no big deal work on it and meet with him again next Friday he’s already going to look for some jobs for me in the automotive field first and some other fields to 

tbirdmarco

Sorry all no idea y that just  happened 

snakeweasel

Mr_Shiftright said:

I would guess that all those supposedly great drivers in America, the top 5% would last less than one hour driving a London taxi. There are narrow lanes, narrow roads, bicycles to contend with, traffic coming from all angles, people walking out onto the road, motorcycles going beside or between cars, I don't know how these guys do it every day. Same with busses. I can't cut and paste but if someone can find a video it is a scary experience.

Trying driving on the back streets of Palermo Sicily some day. One time I had to ask people to move their lunch table, and another time I ended up going down a small flight of stairs! Geez, did I feel stupid doing that. Never trust a GPS when the scale is under a few hundred yards, in a European city.

In Ontario we were going from Niagara to Niagara on the lake to tour wineries. Our GPS actually took us on a large loop bringing us back to our starting point before directing us to our location. On the way back it told us to make a left turn and as I was about to turn I saw that the road was a narrow dirt road and I said "nope" and we straight and let the GPS recalculate the route. 

graphicguy

Yeah...this sight (and the service that maintains it) isn’t helping you guys. It’s been glitchy for a while, and it doesn’t seem to ever get better, regardless of the attempts to “make it better”. When I can’t get on in a timely manner, I just don’t bother...kid of hte opposite what I would think is what you want. That is, eyeballs hitting your site.

snakeweasel

suydam said:

If you drive a plug-in Hybrid it’s ok to have only one occupant in the HOV lane.

Which defeats the purpose of HOV lanes.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

I have become so frustrated with this site - I can no longer use my smart phone (iPhone) to read and /or post on any of the forums. For 6 years or longer, I have always been able to post and read posts, but now postings do not fit on my iPhone's screen - even if I turn the phone to horizontal, I still can't read anything because Edmunds has changed the site. Even on my PC (which I am now posting from) is difficult - the font has become so small, it's difficult to read.

Moderators, what have they done? Why the major change to make it impossible to use a smart phone? Why the tiny fonts? This is awful.

Have you tried left-clicking on a message on your PC screen, the holding down the CTRL key in lower left of keyboard while you slowly roll the scroll wheel on the mouse? That should change your text sizes, larger and smaller,

imidazol97

As to the log in problems, knock on wood, for me. I've not had trouble with my Android or several different PCs I've been working on and using the auto log in once I've set it up with the email and password.

That may change at any minute, the way it sounds in the comments on that, however!

tjc78

@abacomike

You are stuck in desktop mode on the site.  Only way to get it back to mobile mode is to clear all your history and cookies from the IPhone Settings menu.  

Once you do that, log back in and all will be fine.  It happened to me a few weeks back.  

jmonroe

abacomike said:

I have become so frustrated with this site - I can no longer use my smart phone (iPhone) to read and /or post on any of the forums. For 6 years or longer, I have always been able to post and read posts, but now postings do not fit on my iPhone's screen - even if I turn the phone to horizontal, I still can't read anything because Edmunds has changed the site. Even on my PC (which I am now posting from) is difficult - the font has become so small, it's difficult to read.

Moderators, what have they done? Why the major change to make it impossible to use a smart phone? Why the tiny fonts? This is awful.

"SEEMLESS"...the most horrifying words a computer user will ever hear when told..."we are going to upgrade our system".

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright

nyccarguy said:

Badges & Stickers add HP!

Depends where you place them, though.

henryn

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:

I have become so frustrated with this site - I can no longer use my smart phone (iPhone) to read and /or post on any of the forums. For 6 years or longer, I have always been able to post and read posts, but now postings do not fit on my iPhone's screen - even if I turn the phone to horizontal, I still can't read anything because Edmunds has changed the site. Even on my PC (which I am now posting from) is difficult - the font has become so small, it's difficult to read.

Moderators, what have they done? Why the major change to make it impossible to use a smart phone? Why the tiny fonts? This is awful.

Have you tried left-clicking on a message on your PC screen, the holding down the CTRL key in lower left of keyboard while you slowly roll the scroll wheel on the mouse? That should change your text sizes, larger and smaller,

If you're using a web browser on a PC, Chrome, Firefox, IE, whatever, then you can use "Ctrl-+". (Hold down the Control key and hit the "+" key (either one)). Make sure focus is on the web browser, and on the tab that you want the fonts to get bigger. On a PC, using just about any browser, word wrap should re-wrap the lines so that no words are missing from the end of the line.

On your smartphone, all bets are off.

And for whatever it's worth, I have had no problems (knock on wood). I read and post from 3 different PC's, 2 running Windows 10 (1 Enterprise, 1 Pro), and one running Windows 8.1. Two from Chrome, and one from Firefox.

I don't mind reading things on a smart phone, at least not occasionally. But whenever I read these forums, I invariably have some comment I want to make, and typing on a smart phone is not my idea of a good time.

snakeweasel

bwia said:

Yesterday I bought a Nest Gen 3 Thermostat MSRP $249 for $199 at Home Depot, The device comes with a $100 rebate offered through Mass Save. It was installed by my tech-challenged handyman who took a few hours to get it running. I will give an update after a week or two after the system has learned how to control itself whether you are home or away. Nice looking gadget but I believe the large display should be the room temperature rather than the set temperature. Notice the 75 is the set temperature and the faint 76 at top right is the room temperature. All of this is controlled by your smart phone anywhere in the world.

Just hope it never says "I'm afraid I cannot do that Dave".

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

My wife is turning into Big Brother. The new house we bought had a Nest camera installed to view the front door and porch. She has since bought three more cameras - one for the main hallway, another for the living room, and a third for the back porch. Primarily to see what the dogs are up to when nobody is home, but it's creepy knowing she can watch me at certain points throughout the house, as I work from home. We do have a programmable thermostat, but it's not a Nest. Still fiddling with the settings, even after being here a couple of months. I'm sure we will need to futz with it when winter comes, as well.

Maybe you're the "dog" she wants to keep an eye on. Walk around in front of the camera enough in your underwear and she'll be pulling those spy cams down real quick.

Or we'll see the footage on the internet. 

snakeweasel

tbirdmarco said:

 Meeting with the state agency commission for the blind and visually impaired this afternoon again this time with the job placement guy so things are slowly moving along with that too 

Good luck.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

Is this a new trend? Twice tonight I saw BMWs with all the badging removed. Of course you could tell it was a BMW by the wheel caps so why remove the identification? One was a nice new 650 convertible and the other was an older 3 series.

On a similar note I am seeing cars, usually Suv's, where the badging is the same color as the bodywork.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

A friend of mine used to autocross a seriously modded E36 M3. Just for giggles he removed the ///M3 badge and replaced it with a German 316i badge. Several months later the magazine European Car published a letter from a clueless nitwit asking where he could buy a 316i like the one he saw that set FTD at a local SCCA event...

And then there are the insecure drivers who have stripes, wings and 5.0 badging on their 4 cyl Fox body. Goes both ways I guess.

Many years (decades?) ago I had a coworker show up to work in a Mustang with GT badging but only one tail pipe. 

fintail

Splitting lanes isn't legal there, right? I wouldn't feel comfortable splitting lanes around the average American driver.

snakeweasel said:

Seriously the only way that I can make this commute any faster is by leaving a lot earlier or by taking my motorcycle and split lanes. Try this, drive your commute and don't exceed the speed limit and see how much time you really save.

fintail

Does the Audi/BMW turn one into an aggressive yutz, or do jerks gravitate to those brands? Does an old Buick or obese SUV make someone slow down and lose self-awareness in the left lane, or are they just magnets for the oblivious? The mysteries of life

imidazol97 said:

Does the car being driven by the smaller percentage of aggressive drivers make a difference?

fintail

When I had an E55 AMG, I was tempted to get "E200 CDi" badges for it - but I suspect the game would be up when I started it, as I removed the resonator. I've also thought a "Type R" sticker would be funny on the fintail.

I've seen so many single exhaust cars with AMG and M badges, and I don't mean older models where real ones had a single exhaust.

roadburner said:

A friend of mine used to autocross a seriously modded E36 M3. Just for giggles he removed the ///M3 badge and replaced it with a German 316i badge. Several months later the magazine European Car published a letter from a clueless nitwit asking where he could buy a 316i like the one he saw that set FTD at a local SCCA event...

jmonroe

decorpaint said:

Cửa kính xe của tôi thỉnh thoảng cũng bị kẹt và có tiếng kêu lẹt kẹt thật là chán.

Not anymore.

jmonroe

driver100

suydam said:

I’m curious. Did you not read any reviews of Hamilton to see whether it was something you might enjoy? Because its use of urban hip hop is pretty well known. It’s no fun (and expensive) to sit through something you don’t like.

Tjc....I agree Dream Girls play really good.....movie boring.

S.U.Y.D.A.M. 98% of the reviews are extremely positive. I saw the bit on 60 Minutes and the synopsis sounded very intersting. People are waiting for months for tickets and someone I know paid $1000 a ticket in New York. Sometimes it is a crapshoot, you try to get it right, I am probably batting 80 to 90%, but, sometimes you miss.

driver100

graphicguy said:

Saw Hamilton in Chicago. I’m far from the age of anyone who is a hip-hop lover, but thoroughly enjoyed the play.

Certainly worth seeing in today’s world, to bring back the ideals the U.S. is supposed to represent (but seem to have lost recently).

I remember you saw it and enjoyed it. I do like the concept that these guys created such a wonderful country centered on the idea of a democracy.....and if they didn't do that the country could easily have been very different, possibly a dictatorship.
But, not so different, there was corruption, womanizing, and shooting each other.

sda

I had the Accord serviced today at the dealership.   Oil change, filter and 4 wheel alignment.  I thought it was fairly reasonable, $142 total.  I may need front brake pads at the next visit, they are at 4mm.  No complaints as they are original at 79k at present.  Clean workshop, glare from the window looking in.

snakeweasel

fintail said:

Splitting lanes isn't legal there, right? I wouldn't feel comfortable splitting lanes around the average American driver.

Seriously the only way that I can make this commute any faster is by leaving a lot earlier or by taking my motorcycle and split lanes. Try this, drive your commute and don't exceed the speed limit and see how much time you really save.

Lane splitting is not legal here, I will if safe to do so will sneak by on the right to make a right turn on read but that's it.

snakeweasel

fintail said:

Does the Audi/BMW turn one into an aggressive yutz, or do jerks gravitate to those brands? Does an old Buick or obese SUV make someone slow down and lose self-awareness in the left lane, or are they just magnets for the oblivious? The mysteries of life

Does the car being driven by the smaller percentage of aggressive drivers make a difference?

I would think that certain demographics would be attracted to certain brands/ makes/types of cars. I'll leave it at that.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

Saw Hamilton in Chicago. I’m far from the age of anyone who is a hip-hop lover, but thoroughly enjoyed the play. Certainly worth seeing in today’s world, to bring back the ideals the U.S. is supposed to represent (but seem to have lost recently).

I remember you saw it and enjoyed it. I do like the concept that these guys created such a wonderful country centered on the idea of a democracy.....and if they didn't do that the country could easily have been very different, possibly a dictatorship. But, not so different, there was corruption, womanizing, and shooting each other.

The Founding Fathers had a rather dim view on democracies and believed that a democracy would devolve into either mob rule or a dictatorship.  "Real liberty is not found in the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments. If we incline too much to democracy we shall soon shoot into a monarchy, or some other form of a dictatorship" Alexander Hamilton.

The Founding Fathers strived to create a Republic where the rule of law and not the rule of the majority was what mattered. That's why they created a system that is hard to change.

ab348

Bad day here today. Back in April my cat Fred had surgery to remove a cancerous tumor on his back. The pathology report on what they removed indicated they had got all of it. While I was in the hospital last month a new lump appeared nearby. Initially it was tested as benign, but another test just yesterday indicated otherwise and he was probably going to have more surgery next week. But today he took a very bad turn for the worse and I had to have him put down. Poor fellow, he was in agony and could not walk after jumping and moving just fine earlier. He was a very human-like cat in terms of personality and I am very, very sad. RIP Fred.

tbirdmarco

Thank  you