Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

houdini1

Home ownership is a secondary investment, not your main investment. The alternative to home ownership is renting. And even in the worst possible scenario you can piece together, such as the above, the homeowner still comes out ahead. Coming out ahead is good when you consider the poor guy who spent all those years renting, while still having to pay utilities, taxes, various home expenses and paying enough monthly rent for his landlord to pay all his expenses, taxes, home repairs and still make a profit. How far in the minus column is that poor guy after 10 or 20 years.

dino001

houdini1 said:

Home ownership is a secondary investment, not your main investment. The alternative to home ownership is renting. And even in the worst possible scenario you can piece together, such as the above, the homeowner still comes out ahead. Coming out ahead is good when you consider the poor guy who spent all those years renting, while still having to pay utilities, taxes, various home expenses and paying enough monthly rent for his landlord to pay all his expenses, taxes, home repairs and still make a profit. How far in the minus column is that poor guy after 10 or 20 years.

I actually disagree with the math. Nobody showed me a comprehensive calculation that includes all costs of home ownership and compares them with costs of renting. It's not there, because real estate industry would kill any suggestion the math may not be as great. Another reason is large number of variables, not conducive for general public to actually understand a multivariable calculation. It's usually couple of great sounding one-liners, like "you lock in your payment, think how many times your landlord will raise the rent", aimed at ending any in-depth discussion about the subject and going with the warm feelings.

BTW, really poor guy will never get approved for any kind of decent mortgage in a decent house in a safe neighborhood. Not so poor guy will have enough to get a decent rental, save the rest and invest it on a side.

For years we heard "houses never lose value". Well, they did big. Mine still didn't recover from its 2005 peak. 13 years later it's still worth below what people thought it was worth then. But even if its value rose by 50 or 75 percent in that time, I'd still maintain there were better "investments". I like my place, I'm not selling it and I'm not moving. I just refuse to give in into illusions, which makes me a bit strange guy. It feels sometimes like this guy who exposes alchemist's scam of turning lead into gold and gets burned on the stake (not the alchemist, the guy who exposed him).

tbirdmarco

 Happy birthday G Monroe haven’t been here in a couple of days ha ha been going on job interviews little bit here in there also applying for stuff 

dino001

Changing subjects. My credit score hit perfect 850/850 first time ever, at least in accordance with BoA. Anything above 780/850 is really meaningless of course, but still cool. I'm sure it will fall by a couple of points next month of the Moon phase shift, or another equally meaningful factor.

tbirdmarco

 The person job placement man from the state is new and thinks it’s good for me to do cold calling I don’t like the idea what do you all think just go there and show up and talk with them maybe to potentially hire me for something I don’t like it one bit 

xwesx

dino001 said:

Changing subjects. My credit score hit perfect 850/850 first time ever, at least in accordance with BoA. Anything above 780/850 is really meaningless of course, but still cool. I'm sure it will fall by a couple of points next month of the Moon phase shift, or another equally meaningful factor.

Wow; that's impressive. Congrats!

I agree that it is somewhat ridiculous how they come up with their rating criteria. I hit 815 a few months ago, and it really surprised me because I'm always "held down" by not liking to have high limits on my credit cards. Apparently, having all this potential debt out there above and beyond what one typically cycles each month is better than having low limits (but making use of it). My limits reflect what I might actually need, but that also means that I exceed that 10% threshold the credit rating agencies use.

In other news, I am looking for a cosigner on a loan.....

jipster

tbirdmarco said:

 Happy birthday G Monroe haven’t been here in a couple of days ha ha been going on job interviews little bit here in there also applying for stuff 

Jmonroe had another birthday huh. How many fire trucks this time to put out the cake?LOL

Good luck on your job search, tbird!

dino001

xwesx said:

Wow; that's impressive. Congrats!

I agree that it is somewhat ridiculous how they come up with their rating criteria. I hit 815 a few months ago, and it really surprised me because I'm always "held down" by not liking to have high limits on my credit cards. Apparently, having all this potential debt out there above and beyond what one typically cycles each month is better than having low limits (but making use of it). My limits reflect what I might actually need, but that also means that I exceed that 10% threshold the credit rating agencies use.

In other news, I am looking for a cosigner on a loan.....

Yeah, "perfect score" is generally lots of credit available, very little actually taken at the moment of scoring, long history of paying on time (that's obvious), no recent shopping (inquiries) and no recently open accounts - at least one year; I started my car loan in May last year. The most entertaining is reading those "negative" factors on explanations. They can be completely contradictory to each other. At this level, one should never even bother reading that junk, as it's fractions of points. The important stuff is pay it on time, don't take more than you can handle and keep balances on your CC low vs. limits, including those you pay off every month. The score "doesn't know" you are going to pay it off. It takes snapshot of what the CC company billed to you last month. So if you have frequent large spending sprees (e.g. going on business paying by CC and getting reimbursed), make your CC company raise the limit far beyond what you are spending.

fintail

Yep, the limits matter. I have a few cards with moderately high limits, but I pay them off every month. I've had a score consistently in the 820s-830s for a long time, for whatever reason, it doesn't inch higher.

xwesx said:

dino001 said:

I agree that it is somewhat ridiculous how they come up with their rating criteria. I hit 815 a few months ago, and it really surprised me because I'm always "held down" by not liking to have high limits on my credit cards. Apparently, having all this potential debt out there above and beyond what one typically cycles each month is better than having low limits (but making use of it). My limits reflect what I might actually need, but that also means that I exceed that 10% threshold the credit rating agencies use.

In other news, I am looking for a cosigner on a loan.....

fintail

A cost to think about in my area is condo HOAs. As condos are the most viable way for many youngish people without the bank of mom and dad to get into the "ownership" game, these fees are a real impact, and can be significant. For an average 350K condo here, they are often $400+, and you don't get the tax gift/FIRE subsidy/renter penalty. In those cases, renting might not pencil out so bad, especially if one doesn't stay forever or can't deal with any kind of maintenance fee or assessment.

houdini1 said:

Home ownership is a secondary investment, not your main investment. The alternative to home ownership is renting. And even in the worst possible scenario you can piece together, such as the above, the homeowner still comes out ahead. Coming out ahead is good when you consider the poor guy who spent all those years renting, while still having to pay utilities, taxes, various home expenses and paying enough monthly rent for his landlord to pay all his expenses, taxes, home repairs and still make a profit. How far in the minus column is that poor guy after 10 or 20 years.

suydam

I don’t know, but I do know that taxes, mortgage interest, and home repairs and replacements certainly ate up any rise in prices. I also know that on the coasts, housing prices are so high that it is almost impossible to for first time buyers to come up with a down payment that results in an affordable mortgage. As one lender said to me awhile back, “All our mortgages are jumbo sized.”

houdini1

fintail said:

A cost to think about in my area is condo HOAs. As condos are the most viable way for many youngish people without the bank of mom and dad to get into the "ownership" game, these fees are a real impact, and can be significant. For an average 350K condo here, they are often $400+, and you don't get the tax gift/FIRE subsidy/renter penalty. In those cases, renting might not pencil out so bad, especially if one doesn't stay forever or can't deal with any kind of maintenance fee or assessment.

houdini1 said:

Home ownership is a secondary investment, not your main investment. The alternative to home ownership is renting. And even in the worst possible scenario you can piece together, such as the above, the homeowner still comes out ahead. Coming out ahead is good when you consider the poor guy who spent all those years renting, while still having to pay utilities, taxes, various home expenses and paying enough monthly rent for his landlord to pay all his expenses, taxes, home repairs and still make a profit. How far in the minus column is that poor guy after 10 or 20 years.

I just looked at Zillo's rent vs buy calculator. According to them, renting is the best option if you are going to live in a place for 2 years or less. Buying is the better option if you plan of being there over 2 years. After 30 years the difference in favor of buying was astronomical.

dino001

houdini1 said:

I just looked at Zillo's rent vs buy calculator. According to them, renting is the best option if you are going to live in a place for 2 years or less. Buying is the better option if you plan of being there over 2 years. After 30 years the difference in favor of buying was astronomical.

Yes, real estate agent is as likely to show you real numbers as a sugar beat farmer admit that sugar contributes to obesity.

driver100

tbirdmarco said:

 The person job placement man from the state is new and thinks it’s good for me to do cold calling I don’t like the idea what do you all think just go there and show up and talk with them maybe to potentially hire me for something I don’t like it one bit 

Marco, one of the hardest things in the world to do is cold calling. You have to know you will be rejected at least 90% of the time.

In my "Entrepreneurial Course" we had a lesson called making cold calling warmer. It was to send a letter in advance so they will be expecting you. You have to get a name....call first, and write a nice letter telling the person you want to see that you would like to talk to him. Make it friendly, informal, and you are just looking for advice etc.....not going to be demanding a job. Good luck!

graphicguy

tbirdmarco said:

 The person job placement man from the state is new and thinks it’s good for me to do cold calling I don’t like the idea what do you all think just go there and show up and talk with them maybe to potentially hire me for something I don’t like it one bit 

@tbirdmarco ....When I first got out of college, my first "real" job was with Xerox. I was a tech representative at the time, the guy who fixed their "Star" system. That was essentially a typewriter(s) that was wired directly into their print shop. It was all hooked together via ethernet and the first real "network" I was really aware of.

So, what's this have to do with your cold calling interview?

Well, after about a year of being the tech rep, the Star sales rep was let go as she had a hard time hitting her quota on a consistent basis. Since I was providing her a lot of leads, the viewed me as a potential and successful sales person. Most of the offices I visited had temp workers manning the typewriters and print shop. They would spend a month or so with one company and then would be moved to the next. They knew exactly which companies needed such a system as Xerox's Star System. They would let me know who they were....mainly large legal and financial firms.

I resisted going into sales. I did not want to be a sales person and didn't have any experience in sales.

My boss at the time said the Sales Manager would send me for sales training. If after 6 months in the field as a sales person I was not successful, or still did not like it, I could have my old job back as a Tech.

Not sure about today, but back in the late '80s when I first started working for them, Xerox sales training was considered the best in the world.

In 6 months, I was the 2nd revenue producer of Star Systems in all of Xerox. I made more money that I ever thought possible. I was hooked.

But, the least favorite part of my job was cold calling, which I did for 8-9 hours every Tuesday to set up demos and appointments for the rest of the week and into the next week. Lots and lots of phone work was involved. Sometimes once I finished one meeting, I'd look in the same office building for firms that may be able to use one of our Star Systems and would cold call in person. Again, hated doing that.

Over time, I didn't have any time for cold calling, however. I was just asking my customers for their introductions to other companies they thought might be a potential customer. Funny how lawyers and legal personnel all seem to know each other, regardless of the firms they worked for.

Parlayed that into a 10 year career with Xerox. Went onto become a Sales Manager, a Sales Training Manager (based in Leesburg, VA), a District Manager and finally the Director of Marketing for their (then new) color printers and copiers.

Since then I seem to have been in demand and have worked for companies small and large, with several startups during the (then) exploding tech arena in the '90s.

It all starts with cold calling, though.

If Craig @isellhondas is still around, he'll probably concur. So will @driver100.

The key is to have a clear upward path from the cold calling position. If successful, it can be very lucrative.

Good luck!

BTW....what will you be selling?

driver100

houdini1 said:

Home ownership is a secondary investment, not your main investment. The alternative to home ownership is renting. And even in the worst possible scenario you can piece together, such as the above, the homeowner still comes out ahead. Coming out ahead is good when you consider the poor guy who spent all those years renting, while still having to pay utilities, taxes, various home expenses and paying enough monthly rent for his landlord to pay all his expenses, taxes, home repairs and still make a profit. How far in the minus column is that poor guy after 10 or 20 years.

Home ownership should be no investment unless you have more than one. Your home is where you want to live....nothing more, nothing less. Whether prices go down or up, you need a place to live, that is what a home should be.


Some examples of why home investment can be bad....really bad;
1. Before we bought, we rented a townhouse in Florida. The people we rented it from bought it as an investment. Paid $650000 for it, used is $250000 pension money from Southwest as the down payment. They had to walk away when the value decreased to $250000 in 2008.
2. My brother rented his apartment 35 years ago......rent was $550 a month. Everyone told him to buy, and since then condo prices have probably tripled or quadrupled. But, because of rent controls he ended up paying $930 a month after 35 years. His rent didn't even double over that time....now who is the smart one?
3. Our place in Florida reached a peak of being worth about $220000 just before the crash of 2008. We bought it for $125000 in 2011. Original price 22 years ago was about $110000, Our home is worth maybe $160 to $170K, but I am not a financial genius, just bought at the right time....still, not a huge profit over 7 years, especially if you include costs to maintain, taxes, etc. It is buying a lifestyle....that is what it is....I don't consider it an investment at all. If it goes up great, it doesn't really matter.

roadburner

xwesx said:

driver100 said:

That was always my dream Mr Houdini....pay off my home and live for free. Unfortunately, living for free never happens, taxes keep increasing, as do utilities, and maintenance........there is no free!

I think what you really do is decide how important home ownership is to you. Don't buy when prices are rising, try to buy in a down market or at least neutral market, pay off your home as soon as possible.......and hope for the best.

Quite true, driver. Happily, the absence of a mortgage means one's "rent" is pretty darn cheap. If I include all my housing-related fixed expenses (property taxes and utilities), I'm at about $650 a month. For this area, that's equivalent to a 500 square-foot dry cabin off in some mosquito-infested swamp.

$400/month for me. I couldn't rent anything bigger than a backyard tool shed for that amount.

fintail

Depending on the region, I am sure that is true. In my area, for a condo with a heavy HOA, it might take a lot longer.

I remember when a friend of mine moved to suburban Atlanta, buying was definitely cheaper than renting in his area, and I have little doubt one would be running in the black after a couple years.

dino001

roadburner said:

$400/month for me. I couldn't rent anything bigger than a backyard tool shed for that amount.

I got a dark single-bedroom apartment in dilapidated university housing community for $270/month in Tallahassee in 1998. The place was not very nice, but it was quite safe, even if surrounded by a sketchy neighborhood (university police patrolled the area regularly, so the "neighbors" would not venture in). Quite a bargain for a foreign student from a non-First World country. I lived there until I graduated in 2001.

There was a little mold here and there that had to be dealt with. Insects, too (the area was surrounded by old trees). I remember I was once attacked by an angry mob of fireants dropping from my AC unit above my bed. Fortunately after couple of bites I realized what was going on and took care of it. It was a great time.

Now I'm paying $270 per month just to cover my HOA.

driver100

houdini1 said:

fintail said:

A cost to think about in my area is condo HOAs. As condos are the most viable way for many youngish people without the bank of mom and dad to get into the "ownership" game, these fees are a real impact, and can be significant. For an average 350K condo here, they are often $400+, and you don't get the tax gift/FIRE subsidy/renter penalty. In those cases, renting might not pencil out so bad, especially if one doesn't stay forever or can't deal with any kind of maintenance fee or assessment.

houdini1 said:

Home ownership is a secondary investment, not your main investment. The alternative to home ownership is renting. And even in the worst possible scenario you can piece together, such as the above, the homeowner still comes out ahead. Coming out ahead is good when you consider the poor guy who spent all those years renting, while still having to pay utilities, taxes, various home expenses and paying enough monthly rent for his landlord to pay all his expenses, taxes, home repairs and still make a profit. How far in the minus column is that poor guy after 10 or 20 years.

I just looked at Zillo's rent vs buy calculator. According to them, renting is the best option if you are going to live in a place for 2 years or less. Buying is the better option if you plan of being there over 2 years. After 30 years the difference in favor of buying was astronomical.

They forgot to mention timing is a factor. If you bought at the peak in about 2006, you would still be underwater today in most areas. Our Florida place would have been worth $210k then, and $16 - $170k now. They never tell you those things, just use a chart with a long timeline.

driver100

dino001 said:

roadburner said:

$400/month for me. I couldn't rent anything bigger than a backyard tool shed for that amount.

I got a dark single-bedroom apartment in dilapidated university housing community for $270/month in Tallahassee in 1998. The place was not very nice, but it was quite safe, even if surrounded by a sketchy neighborhood (university police patrolled the area regularly, so the "neighbors" would not venture in). Quite a bargain for a foreign student from a non-First World country. I lived there until I graduated in 2001.

There was a little mold here and there that had to be dealt with. Insects, too (the area was surrounded by old trees). I remember I was once attacked by an angry mob of fireants dropping from my AC unit above my bed. Fortunately after couple of bites I realized what was going on and took care of it. It was a great time.

Now I'm paying $270 per month just to cover my HOA.

Great story Dino. You have worked hard to get where you did.........I love those kind of stories. Then, you have the guy complaining because he was born in the country but no one will give him a job :@

houdini1

driver100 said:

houdini1 said:

Home ownership is a secondary investment, not your main investment. The alternative to home ownership is renting. And even in the worst possible scenario you can piece together, such as the above, the homeowner still comes out ahead. Coming out ahead is good when you consider the poor guy who spent all those years renting, while still having to pay utilities, taxes, various home expenses and paying enough monthly rent for his landlord to pay all his expenses, taxes, home repairs and still make a profit. How far in the minus column is that poor guy after 10 or 20 years.

Home ownership should be no investment unless you have more than one. Your home is where you want to live....nothing more, nothing less. Whether prices go down or up, you need a place to live, that is what a home should be.


Some examples of why home investment can be bad....really bad;

It is buying a lifestyle....that is what it is....I don't consider it an investment at all. If it goes up great, it doesn't really matter.

If it doesn't matter to you, if you do make a profit when you sell, please send it to me. Thx. Plus, why are you buying all these houses if it is smarter to rent?

henryn

The comments about credit scores made me go look at mine. 698. The last time I looked, a few months back, it was 783. Probably dropped because I financed that new truck. Which was only temporary anyway, just to get the $750 kick back from Ford Motor Credit. In 91 days, when I pay off the loan, will my credit score bounce back as fast as it went down? Don't know, don't care really.

One interesting note. I financed about $14k, and while I was doing the financial part, I was talking to the finance guy about when it was okay to pay it off. Still 90 days, just like before. Not that you have to wait that long, but they really appreciate it if you do. And I always try to treat people fairly, at least as long as they do the same.

So the interesting part, the finance guy says some people will pay the bulk of the loan at the first payment date, thus reducing the interest over the next two months. He assured me that would not be a problem for the dealership. I did a quick calculation, 6.9% on $14k, that’s about $80 a month in interest. Just something new (at least new to me).

dino001

100 point drop is huge, usually one new account is not enough to make such a dent. When I got mine, it dropped by 25 points or so for a few months, before it started climbing back. I suspect you might have shopped around for that truck a bit too long and checked several places in more than week or two (don't remember), which makes it multiple inquiries and hits the credit. Now it doesn't matter - you have your truck, just pay it and it will rise in time. No, it won't got up instantly on the payoff. BTW, 6.9% is ridiculously high, almost hard to believe it was a prime credit. The dealer must have marked it up by two or three percent. At this point, the credit score is the least of the worry. You want to pay it off if you can, no matter the score.

explorerx4

My name is on 3 auto loans plus a mortgage and my FICO was 841 last time I looked.
Buying a home in a place with good schools is a good choice.

henryn

My credit score used to run over 800. But I no longer have a mortgage, and I got rid of all consumer debt, just use an Amex card and pay it off every month. No mortgage, no debt, so my FICO hasn’t hit 800 in years.

I just got back from the periodontist / implant specialist’s office. I have bone loss under two teeth, one has to be replaced. It’s going to run me over $5,000 all in. Oh, well, it’s only money. I’m 67 years old, and I can still chew up a tough steak!

explorerx4

@henrtn,
A few years ago, I had a molar replaced. Put money in an FSA, available from work, and paid for it out of that to help lower the actual cost. At the very least, ask about a payment plan.

driver100

houdini1 said:

driver100 said:

houdini1 said:

Home ownership is a secondary investment, not your main investment. The alternative to home ownership is renting. And even in the worst possible scenario you can piece together, such as the above, the homeowner still comes out ahead. Coming out ahead is good when you consider the poor guy who spent all those years renting, while still having to pay utilities, taxes, various home expenses and paying enough monthly rent for his landlord to pay all his expenses, taxes, home repairs and still make a profit. How far in the minus column is that poor guy after 10 or 20 years.

Home ownership should be no investment unless you have more than one. Your home is where you want to live....nothing more, nothing less. Whether prices go down or up, you need a place to live, that is what a home should be.


Some examples of why home investment can be bad....really bad;

It is buying a lifestyle....that is what it is....I don't consider it an investment at all. If it goes up great, it doesn't really matter.

If it doesn't matter to you, if you do make a profit when you sell, please send it to me. Thx. Plus, why are you buying all these houses if it is smarter to rent?

I didn't say I would turn down the profit we would make if we sold....I didn't buy it to make a profit...I bought it to get out of the cold and snowy winter.
We did rent a place in Florida for 3 or 4 weeks at a time. Boring, because you don't know the people and you are the visitors. Once you get to know someone that you make friends with, either they leave or we do.
Owning is a lifestyle, we are part of the community. We have friends there.....our time in Florida is not a vacation, it is day to day living only in a warm climate. We have friends and activities in Florida, just like we do at home, and we are part of the community.
Also, it is nice to have a place so it has our stuff in it, the way we want it, and all our clothes and things are there, so we can fly there. I don't know if I am financially ahead or behind, but, I know I am much happier owning than renting........same with a car to stay on topic.

driver100

henryn said:

My credit score used to run over 800. But I no longer have a mortgage, and I got rid of all consumer debt, just use an Amex card and pay it off every month. No mortgage, no debt, so my FICO hasn’t hit 800 in years.

I just got back from the periodontist / implant specialist’s office. I have bone loss under two teeth, one has to be replaced. It’s going to run me over $5,000 all in. Oh, well, it’s only money. I’m 67 years old, and I can still chew up a tough steak!

Save $5000.....switch to hamburger.

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OHhUfE7XyfY

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Politics:

Even though I strongly agree with one side of the argument, please take it to some other forum. I want to read about cars not listen to snarky comments.

Hosts?

I agree. As long as both sides receive the same treatment.

Agreed. Unfortunately in this divisive climate no one thinks they're getting equal treatment so it's just best to take it elsewhere before emotions get out of hand. This group should be better than that.

oldfarmer50

jmonroe said:

stickguy said:

Aldis, we like it for some stuff. Just keep a spare quarter in cup holder. And the washer lady is stealing. Because at checkout, you don’t get the same cart back. The next person in line will get her washer.

Under normal circumstances, you are right. You don't get the cart that you used for your shopping, you get the cart from the person ahead of you. But since this counter-fitter lady said her washers had worked before, she must make sure she gets her shopping cart back.

I still can't understand why anyone would do it since you get a quarter back from another cart. Maybe she's a coin germophobic nut.

jmonroe

Have you priced a washer lately? Some cost more than the quarter.

henryn

explorerx4 said:

@henrtn,
A few years ago, I had a molar replaced. Put money in an FSA, available from work, and paid for it out of that to help lower the actual cost. At the very least, ask about a payment plan.

I work contract, strictly cash and carry, I work 40 hours, I get paid 40 hours times the hourly rate. No holidays, no vacations, no insurance, no nothing. I pay 12.4% social security, plus 2.9% medicare. So that's 15.3% off the top, before you consider income tax. Four times a year, quarterly, I send the government 35% of what I have made.

That's the bad news. The good news, my hourly rate is pretty impressive. I have plenty of cash floating around, and the periodontist / implant specialist is giving me a 10% discount for paying cash. Plus 5% senior citizen discount.

driver100 said:

Save $5000.....switch to hamburger.

Hmmm..... Neh. Thanks for the advice, but I prefer steak. Or prime rib. Or, occasionally, chateaubriand.

oldfarmer50

xwesx said:

driver100 said:

That was always my dream Mr Houdini....pay off my home and live for free. Unfortunately, living for free never happens, taxes keep increasing, as do utilities, and maintenance........there is no free!

I think what you really do is decide how important home ownership is to you. Don't buy when prices are rising, try to buy in a down market or at least neutral market, pay off your home as soon as possible.......and hope for the best.

Quite true, driver. Happily, the absence of a mortgage means one's "rent" is pretty darn cheap. If I include all my housing-related fixed expenses (property taxes and utilities), I'm at about $650 a month. For this area, that's equivalent to a 500 square-foot dry cabin off in some mosquito-infested swamp.

Getting rid of that mortgage is key. With a lot of sweat equity and some relative-based bridge loans (which we paid off) we were able to do it on one pretty paltry income.

xwesx

roadburner said:

xwesx said:

driver100 said:

That was always my dream Mr Houdini....pay off my home and live for free. Unfortunately, living for free never happens, taxes keep increasing, as do utilities, and maintenance........there is no free!

I think what you really do is decide how important home ownership is to you. Don't buy when prices are rising, try to buy in a down market or at least neutral market, pay off your home as soon as possible.......and hope for the best.

Quite true, driver. Happily, the absence of a mortgage means one's "rent" is pretty darn cheap. If I include all my housing-related fixed expenses (property taxes and utilities), I'm at about $650 a month. For this area, that's equivalent to a 500 square-foot dry cabin off in some mosquito-infested swamp.

$400/month for me. I couldn't rent anything bigger than a backyard tool shed for that amount.

Those darn Alaska utilities are brutal.

xwesx

henryn said:

My credit score used to run over 800. But I no longer have a mortgage, and I got rid of all consumer debt, just use an Amex card and pay it off every month. No mortgage, no debt, so my FICO hasn’t hit 800 in years.

I think that hits me a bit, too. No mortgage, and often do not have any debt at all other than revolving credit card (e.g., pay in full every month). At least for credit cards, as long as you are in good standing, you're in good standing; it doesn't matter how much you pay. If they dinged you for full payment, it would make the whole "credit score" scam way too obvious. LOL

oldfarmer50

dino001 said:

Changing subjects. My credit score hit perfect 850/850 first time ever, at least in accordance with BoA. Anything above 780/850 is really meaningless of course, but still cool. I'm sure it will fall by a couple of points next month of the Moon phase shift, or another equally meaningful factor.

Me too, at least as of when I bought the Ford. Proof that paying your bills on time trumps being rich.

henryn

oldfarmer50 said:

Me too, at least as of when I bought the Ford. Proof that paying your bills on time trumps being rich.

Says who? I'm going to have to disagree with that one. Not that I've ever had the experience of being rich, but I certainly would like to!

berri

The credit rating score calculations are as bogus as z score calculations for potential bankruptcy in my book. A credit score totally ignores a person's net worth and cash flow. A z score over emphasizes current assets which means a company with high receivables and/or inventories is enhanced, when both of those situations are actually potential signs of a cash crisis.

I've never seen a formula or analysis on owning v renting that is comprehensive and realistic. On the buying side they tend to ignore the not insignificant costs of buying and selling a house in the calculations. They also tend to ignore the mathematics of a compound interest curve that often result in a 30 year mortgage costing 3X the original mortgage when held to maturity, or leading to an average 7 year house ownership life having payments that are mostly interest and little principal. On top of that, the tax deduction is nice (but now reduced for many) but still it really only saves (returns) your tax bracket percentage of your tax and interest payouts (eg. if you pay $10K in interest and taxes with a 20% tax bracket you have effectively reduced your taxes by $2K, not $10K). On the renting side, they tend to underestimate rents rising annually and the fact that as the landlord has increased taxes and maintenance they will pass most of it off to you through those rent increases. The pro renting side tends to rely on the "investment" of the upfront home purchase and down payment savings in stocks, bonds, etc. except many don't actually do that, while the pro buying side tends to rely on capital gains when you sell - both are "potential", not guaranteed. Seems to me that if you have a $2K monthly rent, over time you would have probably spent around half of that on average on home maintenance, repairs, taxes and the like if you owned a place, so your effective rent difference is more like $1K than the full $2K rent.

I find the field of artificial intelligence interesting. Basically, it appears to rely on developing computer algorithms often based on formula calculations. This is supposed to beat the human mind because it is "impartial and not emotional", except the algorithm and formula methods are developed by the human brain, so in fact cannot be totally objective either really. In investment, no edge tends to last very long because regardless of methodology Wall Street has always been notorious for herd mentality.

Now income inequality doesn't appear to be effecting the markets right now because they are doing well. However, when you look at economic history, whether the US depressions and deep recessions, or the rise and fall of other country economies, the similarity that seems to generally stand out is the erosion of the middle class because without a strong middle class over time their are fewer dollars out there chasing goods and services. Economic impacts tend to happen slowly until they crash toward the end.

Bottom line -beware the political, financial and economic guru's and their theories and lines of bull....

oldfarmer50

tbirdmarco said:

 The person job placement man from the state is new and thinks it’s good for me to do cold calling I don’t like the idea what do you all think just go there and show up and talk with them maybe to potentially hire me for something I don’t like it one bit 

I did cold calling marketing for over a dozen years and hated every minute. I almost gave up on finding a retirement job over the crap they require to fill out an on line application. I hate interviewing altogether. But seeing that half the game is getting your foot in the door I'd suggest giving it a try. If the prospective employer has some sort of diversity director I'd seek out that person and present the idea that hiring a person with your distinctive abilities would only make the company look better.

BTW, my response to the standard question "where do you see yourself in 5 years" was "NOT DEAD".

oldfarmer50

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Me too, at least as of when I bought the Ford. Proof that paying your bills on time trumps being rich.

Says who? I'm going to have to disagree with that one. Not that I've ever had the experience of being rich, but I certainly would like to!

Only trumps being rich relative to FICO score as anyone can pay their bills on time. Personally, I'm looking for the guy who won that $500+ million on the lotto so I can be his new best friend.

imidazol97

oldfarmer50 said:

Only trumps being rich relative to FICO score as anyone can pay their bills on time. Personally, I'm looking for the guy who won that $500+ million on the lotto so I can be his new best friend.

He has gone to ground, I hope. I won a contest decades ago and luckily I had an unlisted phone number. My employer was mentioned once and I got mail from there from "financial advisers" wanting to be my best friend.

My dentist was my true best friend because he told me to see his accountant in the city (Cincinnati) before I did anything. I was on the phone the next day.

Occasionally I waste money on a lottery ticket and I worry about having to find an attorney to set up the proper screens to accept the money for me with only a minimum of exposure which many of the lottery systems require for advertising purposes so they can sucker in other gamblers. But it would be fun to take the money in 26 year installments and leave those to my son and his wife-to-be since I won't last another 26 years.

imidazol97

How do I find my FICO score? My Chase cards don't tell me. My bank doesn't tell me.

Only way I know would be to buy a house, like a winter home in Florida. I'm waiting for all those canadians to start selling to I can get a good price. But even then I wouldn't apply for a loan. So how do I learn my score?

explorerx4

@imidazol97,
Chase? That's where I get my score, although also available other places now.

imidazol97

explorerx4 said:

@imidazol97,
Chase? That's where I get my score, although also available other places now.

I'll have to check into that on my card's website?

dino001

imidazol97 said:

How do I find my FICO score? My Chase cards don't tell me. My bank doesn't tell me.

Only way I know would be to buy a house, like a winter home in Florida. I'm waiting for all those canadians to start selling to I can get a good price. But even then I wouldn't apply for a loan. So how do I learn my score?

Most major banks have now free scores with their credit cards, including Chase. It’s called My Credit Journey, or something silly like that. I get a free score from all cards I have. They all differ slightly, but are pretty consistent. You need to log onto your CC website, if you have any, and poke around. Below is Chase’s link:

https://creditcards.chase.com/free-credit-score?CELL=68GM&jp_aid_a=66244019&jp_aid_p=chasehome_3/tile2

Mr_Shiftright

Real estate, historically, hasn't been all that great in investment in America. We all might think so, since such massive gains happened in our lifetime, but in the long view, it could all be a blip.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

stickguy said:

Aldis, we like it for some stuff. Just keep a spare quarter in cup holder. And the washer lady is stealing. Because at checkout, you don’t get the same cart back. The next person in line will get her washer.

Under normal circumstances, you are right. You don't get the cart that you used for your shopping, you get the cart from the person ahead of you. But since this counter-fitter lady said her washers had worked before, she must make sure she gets her shopping cart back.

I still can't understand why anyone would do it since you get a quarter back from another cart. Maybe she's a coin germophobic nut.

jmonroe

Have you priced a washer lately? Some cost more than the quarter.

Especially because you have to buy them in packages of 20 for about $4.

andres3

houdini1 said:

Buying a house is just like any other investment, you have to do your homework. Owning the right home in the right place, and buying it at the right time, and at the right price can be a very rewarding investment. Plus you get the added enjoyment of living in a nice home while living there for free, and even making money as it appreciates in value. That is an investment that is hard to beat.

Would have been interesting how real estate would have fared in a free market without government bailouts in 2008 and 2009.

andres3

houdini1 said:

Buying a house is just like any other investment, you have to do your homework. Owning the right home in the right place, and buying it at the right time, and at the right price can be a very rewarding investment. Plus you get the added enjoyment of living in a nice home while living there for free, and even making money as it appreciates in value. That is an investment that is hard to beat.

Would have been interesting how real estate would have fared in a free market without government bailouts in 2008 and 2009.