Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

We had a 2013 Passat if you remember Mike? Great little car....huge backseat, nice to drive, came nicely equipped. It was slow but that is probably fixed with the 6 cylinder engine and a turbo which I think it comes with now.
The 2013 Passat we bought was $23k new at the time. The 2014 Mercedes C250 we bought in 2016, had 12k miles on it, cost $25000.......I would much rather have the Merc....but that is comparing it to a very gutless 5 cyl anemic Passat.
They are made in Chattanooga........and they do look like a more expensive car when you see them on the road.
Though it is built in America it has German engineering - that is noticeable, but, it is FWD.

stickguy

enormous interior. long wheelbase, and square design = much room. Definitely a German feel compared to the the competition. A little long in the tooth now, but good feature content and with the 4, good MPG.

henryn

driver100 said:

We had a 2013 Passat if you remember Mike? Great little car....huge backseat, nice to drive, came nicely equipped. It was slow but that is probably fixed with the 6 cylinder engine and a turbo which I think it comes with now.
The 2013 Passat we bought was $23k new at the time. The 2014 Mercedes C250 we bought in 2016, had 12k miles on it, cost $25000.......I would much rather have the Merc....but that is comparing it to a very gutless 5 cyl anemic Passat.
They are made in Chattanooga........and they do look like a more expensive car when you see them on the road.
Though it is built in America it has German engineering - that is noticeable, but, it is FWD.

They no longer use the "gutless 5 cyl" engine. You have a choice of turbo 4 or normally aspirated V6.

The turbo 4 is adequate, but not nearly as good as the 2.0T engine you used to get in the Passat, and still get in the Audi. I would go for the V6.

I owned a 2008 Passat with the good 2.0T engine (my wife's car mostly). We went to 105k on that car with no major problems, and it was QUICK. Last year, I purchased a 2017 Passat R-Line, and only kept it about 6 months. Basically, I wanted back in a truck, and the 1.8T engine (upgraded this year to 2.0) is adequate, but not any fun. I haven't driven a Passat with the V6, but I expect I would enjoy it.

But ... the Passat is just not in the same class as the cars you are used to, high end BMW's and Mercedes. You would notice the difference, and be unhappy. If you're wanting to save money, and not be (too) unhappy with the step-down, I would think about a 2 year old CPO Genesis, Probably cost you less than $30k, very nice, luxurious, very quick. I don't think you would be disappointed, or feel like you had been significantly downgraded.

roadburner

I just picked up the August issue of CAR; the Giulia has now been replaced by the GTV as a potential replacement for the 2er.

cdnpinhead

berri said:

cdn - try inprivate on your browser. Hit Cntrl, Shift and P together with web address. This worked in Edge on the Windows10 computer I have that wasn't working with site. However, my other Windows 10 computer has no problems with Edge and the site. And yes, the ad block, pop up and security settings are identical. Changing those settings had no effect on the issue. I don't really get it. Your issues may be different, but it is perhaps worth a try at least I suppose.

Thanks for the suggestion. I figured I'd try it if I couldn't get in on the new machine today, but lo and behold, all I had to do was reset my password using the new e-mail address on the new machine, and all seems to be well. I don't post all that often, but it's helpful to be taken to the most recent unread post on the 3-4 boards I follow.

Certainly not seamless, but it's done, at least for now.

imidazol97

@abacomike
Hope your grandson gets along with his roommate.

I was thinking back through the roommates I had in my 4 years in "coed" dorm at Ball State University. Most memorable was a guy who smoked a cigar in the room. That didn't last long. Coed was men's dorm and women's dorm sharing cafeteria and double louge tv areas with heavy metal gates and a sniper's next to prevent crossovers during closed hours.First one on BSU campus.

In 2010, my son had a roommate who was not as studious as he. They shared a study area with desks and refrigerator. And a separate sleeping area with two bunk beds where each occupied a lower bunk, separated by a heavy wooden door from study area for quiet. Their study area also had a heavy wood door from the lounge TV area shared with the 6 other roommates and a multiple facility bathroom. A really private and yet apartment like setup. This was in one of the 2 round towers you might see in background next to the football stadium in TV shots.

Son's roomie spent a lot of time at the frat which was rushing him. Didn't do them much good--his dad, a tax lawyer moved him back home to Oklahoma at the end of his freshman year, figuring engineering was a lot cheaper at home and grades had to improve.

ab348

cdnpinhead said:

Thanks for the suggestion. I figured I'd try it if I couldn't get in on the new machine today, but lo and behold, all I had to do was reset my password using the new e-mail address on the new machine, and all seems to be well. I don't post all that often, but it's helpful to be taken to the most recent unread post on the 3-4 boards I follow.

Certainly not seamless, but it's done, at least for now.

Excellent news! Now we just need to get @jmonroe up and running again.

berri

Glad it helped cdn. Heck, my one Windows 10 still won't go in unless I use inprivate or the old IE browser. Dell's with identical settings - crazy!

abacomike

Michaell said:

I’ve seen quite a few VW Passats on the road lately.  That car is no longer a compact or smallish Sedan - that car is a big car.  VW has increased the length of the wheelbase and from the exterior, that back seat looks pretty roomy.

I just don’t know if I would want a car that is not assembled in Germany, Canada or the USA.  I read somewhere that they are assembled in Mexico and Brazil.  Don’t know if that is accurate.

They have great bumper-to-bumper warranties (6-years/70,000 miles).  That might be something I would look into for the future.  Their top of the line model with a 6 cylinder engine MSRPs for around $36,000.

Anyone else have an opinion of the Passat?

The Passat is built in Tennessee, and is a big car you should look at the GT trim level.

Thanks for the info, Michaell.  Definitely a car I will want to seriously look at for my next car.

abacomike

imidazol97 said:

@abacomike Hope your grandson gets along with his roommate. I was thinking back through the roommates I had in my 4 years in "coed" dorm at Ball State University. Most memorable was a guy who smoked a cigar in the room. That didn't last long. Coed was men's dorm and women's dorm sharing cafeteria and double louge tv areas with heavy metal gates and a sniper's next to prevent crossovers during closed hours.First one on BSU campus. In 2010, my son had a roommate who was not as studious as he. They shared a study area with desks and refrigerator. And a separate sleeping area with two bunk beds where each occupied a lower bunk, separated by a heavy wooden door from study area for quiet. Their study area also had a heavy wood door from the lounge TV area shared with the 6 other roommates and a multiple facility bathroom. A really private and yet apartment like setup. This was in one of the 2 round towers you might see in background next to the football stadium in TV shots. Son's roomie spent a lot of time at the frat which was rushing him. Didn't do them much good--his dad, a tax lawyer moved him back home to Oklahoma at the end of his freshman year, figuring engineering was a lot cheaper at home and grades had to improve.

You are correct about roommates.  The college matches roomies with each other using a 4-page biographic/personality assessment that all live-on-campus students are required to submit to student housing.  In my grandson’s case, his roomie is a sophomore who is a PO (pitcher only) on the baseball team.  Both of them have similar study approaches and are 1-year apart in age.  His roomie is responsible for my grandson’s adapting to on-campus living and to “show him the ropes” so to speak.

The dorm he is in is fairly new.  Sleeping areas are separate from study areas and they share a bathroom with a stall shower in their room.

Tuition, room/board, fees, etc., runs $45,000+ this year.  Not cheap, but not prohibitive either.  

suydam

Both my kids liked their first roommates, but found their real best friends somewhere down the hall. Me too, come to think of it. Four page questionnaires get you only so far. They do like to put folks in sports together because they keep different hours from other students, often preferring early classes because many practices are even earlier or at 4pm.

stickguy

abacomike said:

Michaell said:

abacomike said:

I’ve seen quite a few VW Passats on the road lately.  That car is no longer a compact or smallish Sedan - that car is a big car.  VW has increased the length of the wheelbase and from the exterior, that back seat looks pretty roomy.

I just don’t know if I would want a car that is not assembled in Germany, Canada or the USA.  I read somewhere that they are assembled in Mexico and Brazil.  Don’t know if that is accurate.

They have great bumper-to-bumper warranties (6-years/70,000 miles).  That might be something I would look into for the future.  Their top of the line model with a 6 cylinder engine MSRPs for around $36,000.

Anyone else have an opinion of the Passat?

The Passat is built in Tennessee, and is a big car you should look at the GT trim level.

Thanks for the info, Michaell.  Definitely a car I will want to seriously look at for my next car.

my guess is, in 2 years when your lease is up, a redesigned model is out. Probably coming out next year for 2020 MY.

stickguy

suydam said:

Both my kids liked their first roommates, but found their real best friends somewhere down the hall. Me too, come to think of it. Four page questionnaires get you only so far. They do like to put folks in sports together because they keep different hours from other students, often preferring early classes because many practices are even earlier or at 4pm.

the problem is, everyone lies on them. No one says they are a slob that doesn't shower very often.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

His roomie is responsible for my grandson’s adapting to on-campus living and to “show him the ropes” so to speak.

The dorm he is in is fairly new.  Sleeping areas are separate from study areas and they share a bathroom with a stall shower in their room.;

I recall I was an older student serving as a mentor after my sophomore year. I think that works well for both.
In fact, our high school band did that for the incoming freshmen to help them make the big jump to the high school.

My son at OSU was lucky because the university botched up his Honors early application number dorm assignment and put him in another tower with 7 other engineering students in the 8-man apartment unit. Son and his eventual roommate both were placed into a sophomore group of 6 others in the Honors dorm. The older guys also checked in early and walked the two new guys around the area before classes started, doing things to make them part of their group. They walked a mile or so downtown to a Mexican restaurant that is authentic run by Mexicans. Kept them busy. Both my son and his roommate checked in early before move-in day! Those six guys deserve a lot of credit for my son's success.

Can anyone believe the university with the fastest supercomputer in Ohio botched up dorm assignments!

SEcond year son ended up being asked by the 6 sophomores to more into the 6-man apartment off campus because one of them was spending the semester in China for foreign study. Stayed 2 years. They graduated, and son moved into single apartment in a house near campus.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

Thanks for the info, Michaell.  Definitely a car I will want to seriously look at for my next car.

I don't picture you in a Passat.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:

Thanks for the info, Michaell.  Definitely a car I will want to seriously look at for my next car.

I don't picture you in a Passat.

I don't either. I think the CPO Genesis was a good idea....or a CPO Mercedes.......maybe if the price is right a CPO Cadillac XTS.
The Passat is pretty roomy, but, the seats aren't nearly as comfortable as in a larger car.

isellhondas

driver100 said:

isellhondas said:

driver100 said:

We have been watching Goliath on Prime. I like Billy Bob Thornton's 65 Mustang he drives around in....amazing the car still runs:

Not to be a nit picker but that Mustang is a 1966.

How do you know?

I looked it up, and you are right....but, how did you know it was a 66?

I just know my Mustangs having grown up with them and having owned four or five of them. For one thing, the grill is different, the side trim is different along with the wheel covers. Interior is different and a few other things.

driver100

I thought they kept the same design for all those years.

That reminds me, I was looking at a 2018 bmw 335 go by, and although I love the design, it made me think....we had a 2008 that looked the same. I checked back and it seems they have had that same design, with minor changes since 2006. That is a long time to maintain one design. I really like it though, it would be hard to improve on it.....but, doesn't it make you say...if you have an older one......when I buy a new car I would like it to look different from what I have now?
2006 3 Series:

abacomike

The one outstanding change I have noticed in the big 5 German auto manufacturers over the past 5-7 years (Audi, BMW, Porsche, VW and Daimler-Benz) is the tremendous increase in the number of different models being produced for consumer consumption.

The lists are long and varied.  Porsche produced 3-4 sports cars for years - now they offer sedans and SUV’s in addition to their 2-door coupes and convertibles.

BMW produced the 3, 5, 6 and 7 series vehicles and a roadster.  Now they offer a 2, 4, and a new 8 series along with a multitude of SUV’s and an i series (i3 and i8).

Mercedes used to produce a limited number of vehicles in the C (190 E) E (280 E, 300 E & D) S and the Gull Wing.  Now, they offer a myriad of SUV’s, coupes, convertibles, and sports cars.

Audi did the same by offering the A8, A7, A6, A5, A4, A3, and sports cars.

Conversely, American manufacturers have reduced models and lines in the face of broader German and Italian lines.  I am sure there is some sanity in this marketing approach(es), but I haven’t figured it out yet. 

qbrozen

driver100 said:

.....when I buy a new car I would like it to look different from what I have now?

That's easy to fix. Don't buy the same car twice. ;b

snakeweasel

stickguy said:

Both my kids liked their first roommates, but found their real best friends somewhere down the hall. Me too, come to think of it. Four page questionnaires get you only so far. They do like to put folks in sports together because they keep different hours from other students, often preferring early classes because many practices are even earlier or at 4pm.

the problem is, everyone lies on them. No one says they are a slob that doesn't shower very often.

A long time ago I worked in a suburban towns finance department doing the waterbillng. One day i had a lady contesting the amount of her water bill and one of the things she told me is that her water usage couldn't be so high because she didnt shower very often.

pensfan83

Fanfest at Heinz

pensfan83

Fanfest at Heinz

graphicguy

driver100 said:

We have been watching Goliath on Prime. I like Billy Bob Thornton's 65 Mustang he drives around in....amazing the car still runs:

Great show.....love it and Billie Bob’s Mustang. 2nd season was pretty gruesome, though!

dino001

abacomike said:

I’ve seen quite a few VW Passats on the road lately.  That car is no longer a compact or smallish Sedan - that car is a big car.  VW has increased the length of the wheelbase and from the exterior, that back seat looks pretty roomy.

I just don’t know if I would want a car that is not assembled in Germany, Canada or the USA.  I read somewhere that they are assembled in Mexico and Brazil.  Don’t know if that is accurate.

They have great bumper-to-bumper warranties (6-years/70,000 miles).  That might be something I would look into for the future.  Their top of the line model with a 6 cylinder engine MSRPs for around $36,000.

Anyone else have an opinion of the Passat?

I drove Passat in the UK. I liked it in general, had some strange things in the way Bluetooth worked, but it was probably me. It was nice. BTW, do you know that there is a new model, Aerton? Seems to me like it may be a renamed "CC". Pretty slick. Sort of like downmarket version of previous CLS you used to have.

pensfan83

Sorry for the multiple posts everyone.  I have no idea what happened.

28firefighter

I'm personally offended having to see the Steelers colors in such high definition.

dino001

abacomike said:

The one outstanding change I have noticed in the big 5 German auto manufacturers over the past 5-7 years (Audi, BMW, Porsche, VW and Daimler-Benz) is the tremendous increase in the number of different models being produced for consumer consumption.

The lists are long and varied.  Porsche produced 3-4 sports cars for years - now they offer sedans and SUV’s in addition to their 2-door coupes and convertibles.

BMW produced the 3, 5, 6 and 7 series vehicles and a roadster.  Now they offer a 2, 4, and a new 8 series along with a multitude of SUV’s and an i series (i3 and i8).

Mercedes used to produce a limited number of vehicles in the C (190 E) E (280 E, 300 E & D) S and the Gull Wing.  Now, they offer a myriad of SUV’s, coupes, convertibles, and sports cars.

Audi did the same by offering the A8, A7, A6, A5, A4, A3, and sports cars.

Conversely, American manufacturers have reduced models and lines in the face of broader German and Italian lines.  I am sure there is some sanity in this marketing approach(es), but I haven’t figured it out yet. 

Yes, they decided that upscale customer enjoys customization to their taste. I like it to a certain degree, as my own taste is always "off mainstream". That's why I have hard time to find anything to really like in Lexus, Infiniti, or Acura stable. They make fine vehicles, I may even like how they drive or prefer their engineering and reliability, but they just don't make them way I'd enjoy. Want red color? Only with beige upholstery. Want a hatchback? What's ahashbak? You can really see a difference between attitudes of their salespeople. You mention an order in those Japanese Big Lux Three and they run screaming from you or give you this blank stare. This is especially true at Acura, which generally sells its cars fully loaded with very few additional options, kind of "antiBenz" in that regard. Lexus and Infiniti bundle them into huge packages, but their color combinations are still quite limited in comparison with BMW or Benz. You ask for a special order at Benz, Audi, or BMW dealerships, you get a smile and no problem (at least those I visited). In fact, BMW has some special colors for both exterior and interior (inlays) on many of their models that are available by order only (dealers sometimes use fake names on those orders to get them into showrooms). I remember people at BMW factory boast that "every car is sold before it's put into production". It's BS, of course, as they mean dealers commit to an order on their own behalf (within allotments), but it's booked like an "ordered" car. You pay of course, for that "feeling special", whatever that means to you, but it's available if you want it. At Lexus you get a nice customer lounge, pampered treatment and all, but the car itself is just about (or literally) the same as 10 thousand other cars sold this month.

fintail

Arteon has indeed replaced the CC.

dino001 said:

I drove Passat in the UK. I liked it in general, had some strange things in the way Bluetooth worked, but it was probably me. It was nice. BTW, do you know that there is a new model, Aerton? Seems to me like it may be a renamed "CC". Pretty slick. Sort of like downmarket version of previous CLS you used to have.

roadburner

dino001 said:

You can really see a difference between attitudes of their salespeople. You mention an order in those Japanese Big Lux Three and they run screaming from you or give you this blank stare. This is especially true at Acura, which generally sells its cars fully loaded with very few additional options, kind of "antiBenz" in that regard. Lexus and Infiniti bundle them into huge packages, but their color combinations are still quite limited in comparison with BMW or Benz. You ask for a special order at Benz, Audi, or BMW dealerships, you get a smile and no problem (at least those I visited). In fact, BMW has some special colors for both exterior and interior (inlays) on many of their models that are available by order only (dealers sometimes use fake names on those orders to get them into showrooms). I remember people at BMW factory boast that "every car is sold before it's put into production". It's BS, of course, as they mean dealers commit to an order on their own behalf (within allotments), but it's booked like an "ordered" car. You pay of course, for that "feeling special", whatever that means to you, but it's available if you want it. At Lexus you get a nice customer lounge, pampered treatment and all, but the car itself is just about (or literally) the same as 10 thousand other cars sold this month.

The idiots at my local VW dealer lost a sure sale back in 2007; at that time you could still order a GTI with quite a few separate options. I wanted one with the audio upgrade and no hole in the roof. First they tried to sell me a car with a sunroof at a larger discount. Hello? I don't want a sunroof! I asked about ordering one and they made it sound like the process was incredibly difficult(even though salespeople on VW Vortex advised that it was not a problem at all). I decided that if those nitwits wouldn't sell me the car I wanted I'd go elsewhere- and I bought a Mazdaspeed 3 not long after that.

abacomike

roadburner said:

dino001 said:

You can really see a difference between attitudes of their salespeople. You mention an order in those Japanese Big Lux Three and they run screaming from you or give you this blank stare. This is especially true at Acura, which generally sells its cars fully loaded with very few additional options, kind of "antiBenz" in that regard. Lexus and Infiniti bundle them into huge packages, but their color combinations are still quite limited in comparison with BMW or Benz. You ask for a special order at Benz, Audi, or BMW dealerships, you get a smile and no problem (at least those I visited). In fact, BMW has some special colors for both exterior and interior (inlays) on many of their models that are available by order only (dealers sometimes use fake names on those orders to get them into showrooms). I remember people at BMW factory boast that "every car is sold before it's put into production". It's BS, of course, as they mean dealers commit to an order on their own behalf (within allotments), but it's booked like an "ordered" car. You pay of course, for that "feeling special", whatever that means to you, but it's available if you want it. At Lexus you get a nice customer lounge, pampered treatment and all, but the car itself is just about (or literally) the same as 10 thousand other cars sold this month.

The idiots at my local VW dealer lost a sure sale back in 2007; at that time you could still order a GTI with quite a few separate options. I wanted one with the audio upgrade and no hole in the roof. First they tried to sell me a car with a sunroof at a larger discount. Hello? I don't want a sunroof! I asked about ordering one and they made it sound like the process was incredibly difficult(even though salespeople on VW Vortex advised that it was not a problem at all). I decided that if those nitwits wouldn't sell me the car I wanted I'd go elsewhere- and I bought a Mazdaspeed 3 not long after that.

I would imagine that now an ordered VW Passat would not be difficult to procure since the are built in Tennessee. Same thing for many other cars and SUV's that are built in the U.S.A.

Ordering a car for a customer is not what a salesman or sales manager prefers. Firstly, it delays the sale of an automobile - they can't count it as a sale until you leave the dealership with the car. An ordered car usually takes between 5 and 8 weeks to get to the dealership from the assembly point.

As for Lexus and Infiniti, it can take 8-12 weeks to get the car to the dealership from the time it is ordered from the factory. When I was at Infiniti as a manager, it was not difficult to procure a vehicle for a customer that did not want what we had on the lot. We carried an inventory of over 500 new cars. I had the ability to look up on my computer specific cars filtered for color, equipment, availability (in production, on the ocean, awaiting transport, at the port, or at another dealership. Thus, I could dealer-trade for the car the customer wanted, search the ports of entry, search what was in production or scheduled for production, on the ocean, etc. I never ordered a car for a customer - it took much too long to get the precise car or SUV the customer wanted. But all of the time, a customer would settle for one more option, especially if I picked up the cost of that option and threw it into the deal to sweeten it.

I've ordered only one car from Mercedes Benz - the one that came in sans some equipment - then had to have it re-ordered. I would not order a car from the factory again - what I usually desire is either in inventory or available at another dealer.

dino001

roadburner said:

dino001 said:

You can really see a difference between attitudes of their salespeople. You mention an order in those Japanese Big Lux Three and they run screaming from you or give you this blank stare. This is especially true at Acura, which generally sells its cars fully loaded with very few additional options, kind of "antiBenz" in that regard. Lexus and Infiniti bundle them into huge packages, but their color combinations are still quite limited in comparison with BMW or Benz. You ask for a special order at Benz, Audi, or BMW dealerships, you get a smile and no problem (at least those I visited). In fact, BMW has some special colors for both exterior and interior (inlays) on many of their models that are available by order only (dealers sometimes use fake names on those orders to get them into showrooms). I remember people at BMW factory boast that "every car is sold before it's put into production". It's BS, of course, as they mean dealers commit to an order on their own behalf (within allotments), but it's booked like an "ordered" car. You pay of course, for that "feeling special", whatever that means to you, but it's available if you want it. At Lexus you get a nice customer lounge, pampered treatment and all, but the car itself is just about (or literally) the same as 10 thousand other cars sold this month.

The idiots at my local VW dealer lost a sure sale back in 2007; at that time you could still order a GTI with quite a few separate options. I wanted one with the audio upgrade and no hole in the roof. First they tried to sell me a car with a sunroof at a larger discount. Hello? I don't want a sunroof! I asked about ordering one and they made it sound like the process was incredibly difficult(even though salespeople on VW Vortex advised that it was not a problem at all). I decided that if those nitwits wouldn't sell me the car I wanted I'd go elsewhere- and I bought a Mazdaspeed 3 not long after that.

I think some of those differences are just "local flavors" of the owners or management. However, it's clear that Japanese guys either don't even infrastructure built for car ordering at all (I know Honda simply doesn't take orders, period - not sure if that extends to Acura), or have it greatly reduced (I remember local Toyota dealer made it sound once as possible, just time consuming).

VW dealers are probably most inconsistent throughout all the brands, not just about orders - about anything. From old school greasy slick guys (take a long hot shower after a visit) to modern upscale dealers, pleasant and professional. I think it's because they are almost never stand alone, so their culture is usually driven by those other franchises they are attached to, as those are usually volume drivers. At least that's how it looks in Tampa Bay.

dino001

abacomike said:

roadburner said:

dino001 said:

You can really see a difference between attitudes of their salespeople. You mention an order in those Japanese Big Lux Three and they run screaming from you or give you this blank stare. This is especially true at Acura, which generally sells its cars fully loaded with very few additional options, kind of "antiBenz" in that regard. Lexus and Infiniti bundle them into huge packages, but their color combinations are still quite limited in comparison with BMW or Benz. You ask for a special order at Benz, Audi, or BMW dealerships, you get a smile and no problem (at least those I visited). In fact, BMW has some special colors for both exterior and interior (inlays) on many of their models that are available by order only (dealers sometimes use fake names on those orders to get them into showrooms). I remember people at BMW factory boast that "every car is sold before it's put into production". It's BS, of course, as they mean dealers commit to an order on their own behalf (within allotments), but it's booked like an "ordered" car. You pay of course, for that "feeling special", whatever that means to you, but it's available if you want it. At Lexus you get a nice customer lounge, pampered treatment and all, but the car itself is just about (or literally) the same as 10 thousand other cars sold this month.

The idiots at my local VW dealer lost a sure sale back in 2007; at that time you could still order a GTI with quite a few separate options. I wanted one with the audio upgrade and no hole in the roof. First they tried to sell me a car with a sunroof at a larger discount. Hello? I don't want a sunroof! I asked about ordering one and they made it sound like the process was incredibly difficult(even though salespeople on VW Vortex advised that it was not a problem at all). I decided that if those nitwits wouldn't sell me the car I wanted I'd go elsewhere- and I bought a Mazdaspeed 3 not long after that.

I would imagine that now an ordered VW Passat would not be difficult to procure since the are built in Tennessee. Same thing for many other cars and SUV's that are built in the U.S.A.

It's probably not really a function where it's made, more like who is selling. The only difference may be time, as those made in the US should have a shorter lead time vs. those made overseas.

abacomike

I saw another 2018 Toyota Camry on the road this morning with some really nice factory wheels. I think I mentioned this before that the car is quite nicely designed - with one exception - the front grille work. From the side and the rear, the car is beautiful. But then, when you look at that front end, it destroys the beauty of the car. Would I own a Camry - very possibly. I would want the 6 cylinder version and the leather interior - and all of the safety features I currently have become accustomed to. I have not driven the newly styled Camry and will probably do so prior to my lease ending. I've got plenty of time before that happens - but the styling on the new Camry and the new Avalon is a major departure for Toyota - the mundanely styled Toyotas seem to be a thing of the past - good move for Toyota.

tjc78

I have to agree, nice looking car until you see the front. The butter-face of automobiles.

berri

What kind of surprises me is that it is difficult to find AWD crossovers in the south and Florida. Most lots seem heavily tilted to FWD making the CUV a tall wagon. You get big rains and north of Florida occasional snow, and Florida has a lot of northerners and Canadians. The price difference isn't all that huge percentage wise. But I guess that's what you mean about markets being local.

I think the new Camry is nice looking, but it is a bit low to the ground with low roofline clearance compared to the previous model. So it probably depends on your personal preferences and how your body works in it.

stickguy

Mike, if you want to go for a loaded up Camry V6, and the budget is not too compressed, why not just go with the Lexus ES? Get some extra features, nicer dealer experience, and IMO better seats.

dino001

abacomike said:

As for Lexus and Infiniti, it can take 8-12 weeks to get the car to the dealership from the time it is ordered from the factory. When I was at Infiniti as a manager, it was not difficult to procure a vehicle for a customer that did not want what we had on the lot. We carried an inventory of over 500 new cars. I had the ability to look up on my computer specific cars filtered for color, equipment, availability (in production, on the ocean, awaiting transport, at the port, or at another dealership. Thus, I could dealer-trade for the car the customer wanted, search the ports of entry, search what was in production or scheduled for production, on the ocean, etc. I never ordered a car for a customer - it took much too long to get the precise car or SUV the customer wanted. But all of the time, a customer would settle for one more option, especially if I picked up the cost of that option and threw it into the deal to sweeten it.

I've ordered only one car from Mercedes Benz - the one that came in sans some equipment - then had to have it re-ordered. I would not order a car from the factory again - what I usually desire is either in inventory or available at another dealer.

As you know, I have ordered my last two cars. These were Euro delivery orders, but it was just a sweetener, I would most likely have ended up ordering them even without Euro delivery. The reason was my first car was 1. wagon 2. RWD, 3. Manual, 4. Fairly loaded, but not overloaded. Those simply did not exist on any dealer's lot in the US, even if I had relented on the color (I took blue, really didn't want grey, silver, white, or black, but might have taken white or black if really had no choice). So Euro or not, I would not have been able to get anywhere even close to what I wanted. My second 430i GC would have been a little easier, but still - there were several red available throughout the state, but all had beige or white interior. I would have taken saddle brown/cognac (depending on the model year), or black. I was also open to one or two other colors, but those also ran in beige and pearl white. Then there were options - dealers would have either ordered them stripped, or "silly loaded", nothing in between. I like to have certain "minimum", which is quite rich, but resist those thousands of bucks added for sake of options. BMW's configurations for 2015-17 models didn't help, either. It was only 2018, when they became much more rational in their configuration approach (I learned later that just six months into the model BMW changed it again and made it even better, but too late for me).

It was really frustrating sifting through the inventory at that time, as I felt I was a hostage to the local order manager's taste and gut feel. To anybody's assertion "they ordered what sold" I say that you could see huge differences between inventory of the same models at dealerships in the same metro area. One would have almost exclusively run-the-mill lease specials (non-offending colored strippers), another would be exact opposite - everything loaded to the gills and perhaps just a few strippers. This tells me "what sells" was mostly in managers' heads and had not that much to do actual market research. It might be based on some previous transaction records, but that can be very self-fulfilling. As much as I understood the previous situation with the wagon, I simply couldn't grasp why everybody thought that if it's red outside, it must be beige inside, or if it has M-Sport package, it must also have bunch of pricey appearance options raising its price by another 3 grand at least, or if it's 435/440, it must have every option checked under the Sun, running up the price by 15-20 grand to mid 60s, like it would have been a terrible insult to the brand to have a 435/440 priced at say 55-58 grand (still not a stripper then, just selective) sitting on the lot, which was something I would have been open to consider at the time.

bwia

Mike, I think you mentioned that you might consider a Buick in your next purchase decision. Well, the Buick Regal GS might fit the bill. It is smooth, quiet, has good road manners and powerful. With all the latest tech and safety features all packaged in a pleasing exterior and interior design. It is worth a look-see. You might be pleasantly surprised.

dino001

stickguy said:

Mike, if you want to go for a loaded up Camry V6, and the budget is not too compressed, why not just go with the Lexus ES? Get some extra features, nicer dealer experience, and IMO better seats.

Isn't ES based on Avalon now? I thought it's quite a bit bigger than Camry. Which is probably better for Mike. He could also get a good lease on it, as those keep value well.

Edit: just checked the specs. ES has same wheelbase as Camry, Avalon has 2 inches longer - so it seems ES is still based on Camry, as it's been in the past, not Avalon.

fintail

Prior Avalons were on a Camry platform, right? So wouldn't an ES be Camry-based via being Avalon-based?

bwia

Browsing through my copy of the Value of a Dollar, 1860 - 2009, 4th ed, A Universal Reference Book, Grey House Publising, I exerpted the following tidbits:

• 1860, U.S. population reaches 31.4 million, double the 1840 population. Average work week, 60 hrs at $1.50 per day.
• 1871, first shipload of bananas enters the U.S. from Jamaica.
• 1880, the U.S. has 100 millionaires; increasing to 4,000 millionaires in 1892,
• 1890, 3% of Americans age 18 - 21 attend college.
• 1890, average annual income of black teachers in Alabama was $255 per year versus $215 for white teachers
• 1893, first Ford motorcar road tested.
• 1898, U.S. motorcar production reaches 1,000 per year and up to 2,500 in 1899.

• 1905, auto production reached 15,000
• 1905, a loaf of bread was $0.05, quart of milk, $0.06 and sugar $0.054 per pound,

• 1907, Cadillac advertised for $800, Ford Model K, $2,800 and horses at $150 - $300.

• 1907, (entertainment) snake fight: Mr. Rattlesnake vs Mr. Kingsnake, $2.00

• 1908, carbon paper, $0.50/25 sheets.
• 1908, Sears Pocket Watch, 21-jewel, 14k solid gold, size 16, $32.50.
• 
  
• 1908, San Francisco sanitarium, confinement with 10 days care, $30 to $60.
  

• 1909, tuition at the University of Michigan, $40 per semester.

dino001

fintail said:

Prior Avalons were on a Camry platform, right? So wouldn't an ES be Camry-based via being Avalon-based?

There is a difference. Avalon is a made from modified Camry platform (stretched). In early years, ES used to be a rebadged and reworked Camry (almost "the same car", just better made overall, e.g. more welds). Over time, the differences became bigger and bigger. However, seems like the wheelbase, most important dimension for platform, is still identical between ES and Camry, even if other dimensions diverged a bit.

thebean

You missed one - 1890: @abacomike & @ab348 born.

Mr_Shiftright

roadburner said:

I just picked up the August issue of CAR; the Giulia has now been replaced by the GTV as a potential replacement for the 2er.

Heard rumors that Fiat is thinking of pulling out of N.A. Just scuttlebutt around the auto media.

roadburner

I heard that too; the suspicion is that Fiat will be dumped and FCA will concentrate on Alfa, Maserati and Ferrari.

dino001

roadburner said:

I heard that too; the suspicion is that Fiat will be dumped and FCA will concentrate on Alfa, Maserati and Ferrari.

This was all because for a brief moment Americans were buying small cars. Then the oil went down and everybody forgot why. Fiat came here with the worst possible vehicle, 500. Poor quality didn't help the case. Combine with high labor costs and it's deadly. I wonder if late Marchionne was considering this already, or is it the new guy throwing the towel.

roadburner

I heard Marchionne was talking about it.

fintail

Still a "Supercamry" then, just more super than before

dino001 said:

There is a difference. Avalon is a made from modified Camry platform (stretched). In early years, ES used to be a rebadged and reworked Camry (almost "the same car", just better made overall, e.g. more welds). Over time, the differences became bigger and bigger. However, seems like the wheelbase, most important dimension for platform, is still identical between ES and Camry, even if other dimensions diverged a bit.

driver100

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

.....when I buy a new car I would like it to look different from what I have now?

That's easy to fix. Don't buy the same car twice. ;b

But the manufacturer loves to sell you another car.....but, I don't feel like buying the same car twice. I had a 2012 BMW 535, when I looked at a 2015 535 it hadn't changed at all. I already bought it in my favorite color....not much fun in getting another one exactly the same and getting a worse color like jmonroe did

I went with the Mercedes, I liked it better, but, there is a good chance I wouldn't even have looked at the Mercedes if the 535 had changed enough for me to want another one.