Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

xwesx

28firefighter said:

Wife and I were just talking about the fact that if it rains 8-9 months a year and then two months of otherwise clear summer weather is marred by wildfire particulate, what’s left?

That's how we talk up here! If we have to go through 6-7 months of winter and sub-freezing temps, then suck thick smoke for half of the other five months, why bother?!

28firefighter

For budgeting, my wife and I use Quicken to track our monthly and annual expenses and make sure we are saving properly. Our only debt at this point is the house, her lease, and my student loans. Credit cards are paid off in full every month, maxing out retirement, etc. Hoping to have the student loan debt knocked out in the next few years. Thanks grad school.

And yes, nearly 6 years now in the PNW. Feels like yesterday in some ways and an eternity in others....

henryn

graphicguy said:

Not wanting to relive that experience with the Caddy, for certain.

@iluvmysephia1 ....funny about the descriptions of “rebuilt titles” or “manufacturer buybacks”. They always act like they bought the cars back was for a minor issue to make the customer happy. Nothing could be further from the truth. Manufacturers loath to buy back a vehicle and will fight tooth and nail to keep from doing so. They’ll also throw their (considerable) legal and corporate weight around trying to wear down a customer so they just give up pursuing a buyback.

I’m absolutely certain the buyback on that Sentra was more than just replacing an O2 sensor. There’s more to it....a lot more to it, I’m certain. Don’t succumb to the dealership feigning they don’t know what they have. They know exactly what they have. Sounds like they were trying to add to the pot by knowing and incorrectly stating it was a NIMSO, when it really wasn’t.

My younger sister fell for one of those “rebuilt title” cars a few years ago. She found a 1 year old 3 series with a rebuilt title that seemed like a steal. It wasn’t being sold by a dealership, but by a local used car lot (which I wasn’t familiar with). They told her the car had a rebuilt title because the original owner left his window open during a rain storm because the window regulator broke.

She said there was no evidence of a wreck (which was true), and that the used car lot only had to replace the window regulator to give the car a clean bill of health. Fast forward 4 months later when the electrics were giving her all sorts of fits. She finally took it to my BMW dealership who found dampness and water under the carpets, behind the door cards, under the trunk mat, etc. They said it looked like it had been in a flood.

Digging around a bit, found out it originally came from the east coast and was one of the cars that was affected by the super storm Sandy. Tracing it back, the car was totaled by the insurance company, then bought by an aggregator who specialized in such cars, and then sold at auction to the used car dealer my sister bought it from.

She kept it a year. It never ran right. She babied it along to keep it on the road (usually with wipers, ECU, lights, etc either not functioning, or functioning sporadically. I can’t recall the amount of times she was left stranded.

But, it looked good and she got a “hulluva” deal on it.

I have (twice) bought cars - well, one car, one truck - with a rebuilt title.

The car was an older Cadillac, which had been side swiped, damage to the right rear door and the right rear fender. It was purchased (from the insurance company, at auction) by a guy who did body work on the side. The guy who fixed it up and sold it to me had pictures of the before and after, so that I could plainly see that it was only superficial body damage (not frame). I saved a lot of money, and my only two worries were that the bondo or the paint might come loose, and that my insurance company did not want to do collision and comprehensive. I paid so little for the car that I was willing to go with just liability insurance, and if the paint peeled off I could live with that. I drove that car for a couple of years, never had any problems with the body work, and sold it for more than I paid for it.

The truck was stolen and stripped, not wrecked, not flooded, and the owner showed me proof of that. The original owner bought it back from the insurance company, who totaled it. He found a similar wrecked truck, bought the whole thing, transferred the seats, the tires and wheels, the stereo, the tailgate, a few other things. He kept it for several more years before he sold it to me. I got a very nice truck for a greatly reduced price. When I explained all of this to my insurance company, they had no problem selling me full coverage.

The only slightly weird thing, the seats were not a good color match for the interior door panels and other trim. Which didn't bother me, but I did get a few questions about that!

pensfan83

roadburner said:

I firmly believe that Dave Ramsey is sincere and is not trying to con anyone. My wife and I use his free budgeting app and we find it to be very helpful. We also use a financial advisor and an accountant that Ramsey recommended. Both are excellent. 
I’m not as anti-debt as Ramsey but we do pay our credit card balances off in full every month and pay off car loans in three years or less. 
I believe making a budget is the key- telling your money where to go as opposed to wondering where it went.

I don't think he's insincere or a con man but a lot of what he propagates is, or at least should be, common sense to most people. With time, money, and discipline I think just about any regular poster here could probably succeed within the same business model Dave Ramsey has perfected.

stickguy

You learn as you get older that common sense, is not very common.

iluvmysephia1

Telling people that Dave Ramsay is worth $55 million won't impress anyone, probably, but his teaching of strictly eating "rice and beans, beans and rice" is sometimes what a person or couple need ta do ta get their finances in order.

Also, his advice on car purchases is simple: 
1) Don't finance a car at all.
2) Buy your car with cash - and spend only 50% or less of your yearly income on that rig.

stickguy

I would do salvage only on a cheap, older car. And only body damage or theft recovery that I had proof of the before. Basically stuff that would have been fixed if the car was newer. But not something that was still relatively expensive.

Anything water related, or lemon law, no way.

stickguy

iluvmysephia1 said:

Telling people that Dave Ramsay is worth $55 million won't impress anyone, probably, but his teaching of strictly eating "rice and beans, beans and rice" is sometimes what a person or couple need ta do ta get their finances in order.

Also, his advice on car purchases is simple: 
1) Don't finance a car at all.
2) Buy your car with cash - and spend only 50%        or less of your yearly income on that rig.

So he expects people to have $30,000 lying around in cash they don’t need? Welcome to the next recession after auto industry collapses. And the supply of 2004 Malibu’s isn’t infinite for the other 95% of the population.

driver100

For a country to work you have to have "debt". Visit Egypt and you will see....they don't allow people to borrow. Businesses can't open because most need loans to create a business. Homes can take years to build, because they save some money, start building, when they run out of money they stop and start again when they have saved more money.
You have to be careful you choose a good time to rent a property too. You are not allowed to raise the rate, so you must only rent at an optimum time.
We are very fortunate we have the system we do.
Credit is your friend.....if you use it wisely!

henryn

iluvmysephia1 said:

Telling people that Dave Ramsay is worth $55 million won't impress anyone, probably, but his teaching of strictly eating "rice and beans, beans and rice" is sometimes what a person or couple need ta do ta get their finances in order.

Also, his advice on car purchases is simple: 
1) Don't finance a car at all.
2) Buy your car with cash - and spend only 50%        or less of your yearly income on that rig.

Pretty sure I have never hit 50% of my yearly income on buying a car. Looking back, I don't think I've ever hit 40%. Well .. maybe if you count MSRP, but not if you count actual price paid.

henryn

stickguy said:

I would do salvage only on a cheap, older car. And only body damage or theft recovery that I had proof of the before. Basically stuff that would have been fixed if the car was newer. But not something that was still relatively expensive.

Anything water related, or lemon law, no way.

On this we agree. Flood damage, heck NO! Same for lemon law.

ab348

driver100 said:

For a country to work you have to have "debt". Visit Egypt and you will see....they don't allow people to borrow. Businesses can't open because most need loans to create a business. Homes can take years to build, because they save some money, start building, when they run out of money they stop and start again when they have saved more money.
You have to be careful you choose a good time to rent a property too. You are not allowed to raise the rate, so you must only rent at an optimum time.
We are very fortunate we have the system we do.
Credit is your friend.....if you use it wisely!

Back in the mid-late '90s I was Project Manager for the Province on a Personal Property Registry system - essentially a system where all liens would be recorded against anything that was used as collateral for borrowing, except for mortgages against real estate. Prior to that a lien against a car or a yacht would need to be recorded on paper in each of 17 registry offices around the province, which of course never happened and so it was pretty useless.

One of the things that I learned from that is as you say, some places in other parts of the world had no mechanism at all for such borrowing and so it was pretty limited and really hurt their economies. I went to a few conferences where people from places in South America, Africa and Asia were in attendance to try to figure out how to set something similar up for their countries. In fact the young lady I hired to be the provincial registrar here eventually went to work for the World Bank to help them do exactly that. She did very well for herself, at the cost of spending almost all her time in the Far East.

fintail

Life is too short for some of that, especially in terms of car purchases. It's all about priorities, and the way I see it, if outflow is less than income and a decent amount is being saved for later, it's fine. These are the good old days.

I still can't be in awe of someone for preaching what most of the time is simple common sense that should be easy for anyone who has a grasp of arithmetic. I was probably a little harsh in my initial description of Ramsey, but I can't see the mystique.

iluvmysephia1 said:

Telling people that Dave Ramsay is worth $55 million won't impress anyone, probably, but his teaching of strictly eating "rice and beans, beans and rice" is sometimes what a person or couple need ta do ta get their finances in order.

Also, his advice on car purchases is simple: 
1) Don't finance a car at all.
2) Buy your car with cash - and spend only 50%        or less of your yearly income on that rig.

28firefighter

I have to agree @fintail. I almost kicked the bucket last summer and it was a real wake-up. Not saying that I use that as a reason to spend irrationally and irresponsibly, but if I'm not taking time to enjoy life now AND save for later, what is the point?

PF_Flyer

ab348 said:

stickguy said:

My phone must have kept me logged in. All I did was hit the little star icon and my bookmarks popped up. Though before I noticed that, I just pulled up a thread from the search box.

I did the phone login day 1 to see if it worked and didn’t touch it since.

That's what I did too and it worked without needing to log in at all on the phone until last night.

Near as I can tell from my experience it seems to be a problem with the Edmunds s/w and Safari, since Firefox for the iPhone works OK with the forums.

The issue on the iPhone/Safari seems to be about the "padding" under the sign in popup. Latest word is that it will hopefully be fixed by early next week. Many thanks to those who reported the glitch. It's VERY helpful to have all of you poking around in corners that we might not poke into all the time:)

nyccarguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

roadburner said:

dino001 said:

fintail said:

I think the only one who strikes it rich via Ramsey is Ramsey himself. Seems like another huckster in an age of grifters and cons, selling miserly advice to those who don't remember to spend less than they make.

I think you're probably wrong about Ramsey. I heard him on several times on occasion and all he said then was exactly don't spend more than you make. Perhaps things changed since then. He spoke a lot against debt, which included buying cars on credit. I can say that - most of us here are sophisticated and sober enough to understand our own credit capacity and has enough will power to keep the debt well under it. However, there are plenty of people out there who don't have such internal brakes and will borrow every dollar that is offered to them by anybody. For those, a stark and somewhat rigid advice of avoiding debt altogether, including personal vehicle, may be the best thing they need. So I would not be so dismissive of it. There is no entitlement for a new car every few years, no matter how hard you work.

I agree.

The problem is that our economy exists on debt. If people stopped buying on credit, and only spent as much, or less, than they earned, our entire monetary system would utterly collapse. We are a debt-driven economy, not a productivity-driven economy. I mean, the government spends way more than it earns, so why would citizens be encouraged to "austerity"?

For certain, the automobile biz would suffer horribly.

The average monthly loan payment for a new vehicle hit an all-time high of $523 in the first quarter, according to Experian.

The average amount borrowed by buyers of new cars, trucks and SUVs also climbed to a record high of $31,453.

Both monthly loan payments on my Infiniti ($612.27) & my wife's Pilot ($538.17 after I put $10,500 down) exceed the "all time high." I wholeheartedly agree with you that as a society, we are addicted to debt. The nation's economy should depend on debt as much as it does. Watch what would happen if interest rates were suddenly raised 2 points. Auto sales? Home sales? Mortgages? That's just the tip of the iceberg. Big corporations use low interest to finance equipment, real estate, capital projects... The stock market would nose dive for sure.

Mr_Shiftright

pensfan83 said:

roadburner said:

I firmly believe that Dave Ramsey is sincere and is not trying to con anyone. My wife and I use his free budgeting app and we find it to be very helpful. We also use a financial advisor and an accountant that Ramsey recommended. Both are excellent. 
I’m not as anti-debt as Ramsey but we do pay our credit card balances off in full every month and pay off car loans in three years or less. 
I believe making a budget is the key- telling your money where to go as opposed to wondering where it went.

I don't think he's insincere or a con man but a lot of what he propagates is, or at least should be, common sense to most people. With time, money, and discipline I think just about any regular poster here could probably succeed within the same business model Dave Ramsey has perfected.

Everybody is a genius in a bull market, aren't they? I still relish some of Jim Cramer's incredibly wrong stock calls, as well as his god-awful advice in 2008.

ab348

nyccarguy said:

Both monthly loan payments on my Infiniti ($612.27) & my wife's Pilot ($538.17 after I put $10,500 down) exceed the "all time high." I wholeheartedly agree with you that as a society, we are addicted to debt. The nation's economy should depend on debt as much as it does. Watch what would happen if interest rates were suddenly raised 2 points. Auto sales? Home sales? Mortgages? That's just the tip of the iceberg. Big corporations use low interest to finance equipment, real estate, capital projects... The stock market would nose dive for sure.

I assume things were similar in the US, but I remember up here in late 1980 and 1981 having interest rates on low-risk consumer debt at 18% and up. The company where I worked had set up a loan to buy a new IBM computer system and between the time that was done and the time the thing finally got delivered the rate jumped to over 20%. People were getting mortgages renewed at those rates too with a huge jump in their monthly payment. It was nuts.

PF_Flyer

28firefighter said:

For budgeting, my wife and I use Quicken to track our monthly and annual expenses and make sure we are saving properly. Our only debt at this point is the house, her lease, and my student loans. Credit cards are paid off in full every month, maxing out retirement, etc. Hoping to have the student loan debt knocked out in the next few years. Thanks grad school.

And yes, nearly 6 years now in the PNW. Feels like yesterday in some ways and an eternity in others....

Quicken is one of the pieces of software I tend to give rave reviews to. Been using it since 1995, and I don't know if we'd have made it through things without it. My most eye-opening Quicken moment came when I entered about 6 months of bank statement data to get started and had to categorize things. Well, debit cards hadn't hit yet, and we would still go to the ATM and grab a $20 if we needed cash. So you'd get that $20 to buy the widget that was $11, and the other $9 would just disappear into the ether.

I was shocked that ATM withdrawals were 27% of our spending. Just being aware of that cut it down to about 12% immediately. Debit cards came around and got me below 3% shortly thereafter.

I really don't set up a budget using Quicken, although I DO look at how much we spend on what... which is kinda the same thing.

imidazol97

Mr_Shiftright said:

Everybody is a genius in a bull market, aren't they? I still relish some of Jim Cramer's incredibly wrong stock calls, as well as his god-awful advice in 2008.

I came across him and another guy this morning on some CNBC show. Cramer was doing body movements like a deranged person. Can't take that. Sometimes I watched his evening show just to see what he was recommending and now recommending. Hard to make sense out of his ramblings.

dino001

iluvmysephia1 said:

Telling people that Dave Ramsay is worth $55 million won't impress anyone, probably, but his teaching of strictly eating "rice and beans, beans and rice" is sometimes what a person or couple need ta do ta get their finances in order.

Also, his advice on car purchases is simple: 
1) Don't finance a car at all.
2) Buy your car with cash - and spend only 50% or less of your yearly income on that rig.

I think it's fine to make money providing people what they need. I understand that Ramsay made most of his money before he became a radio host and his story was that as a young man he got rich "quickly" through real estate, then he lost it all due to over-leveraging, then he made it back the "right way", which of course took him more time. And he did what he advises, i.e. put himself through rice and beans, during the recovery time.

That's the thing with debt - it extends your gains in good times and magnifies losses in bad times. People (companies, too) go into debt in good times assuming that bad times will never come. I always say that when something bad happens to you, I believe if you tell me it was not your fault. But if you were financially unprepared to face that difficulty after years of holding a well paying job, years during which all you dealt with was regular life without extraordinary financially draining hardships (e.g. child with a disability, sick relative, or similar) , IT IS YOUR FAULT.

iluvmysephia1

Exactly! The dealers around here advertise new STs for a minimum of $3500 off of MSRP.
I'd estimate that an ST is at worst 1,000,000% more fun to drive than the Sentra SR.

A Nissan Sentra SR Turbo 6-speed can go 0-60 in around 7.5 seconds. Depends on one's shifting skill. A 2018 Ford Focus ST 6-speed can go 0-60 in around 6.3 seconds. A 2011 Kia Soul 5-speed can go 0-60 in around 10 seconds. When I'm car shopping I'm not Mario Andretti-ing it up.

I want legroom in the back like the Sentra SR Turbo 6-speed has, industry leading in it's class. I want a certain body style look, it is a look that Nissan has designed-in to the Sentra SR Turbo 6-speed just right for me. I don't freak out about having a finely-tailored interior - colors of black and grey and plastics molded to look like metals work just fine for me. Piano black sprays and splays are cool but not required.

I also don't need industry-leading schnick-shifters. I need shifters that go to the spot they're supposed ta go and stay there. By all rights, the Ford Focus ST would work out better for me as my No.2 car. My play car.

The choice for me is the Nissan Sentra SR Turbo 6-speed. My hunting subjects have been nailed down to just one car. Made by one carmaker. It's the whole offering that needs to line up, with the Mrs. and I the cost of the car comes in to consideration, yes, as does ghastly mileage per gallon of ghastly. Like I said in my midnight post last night, most people wouldn't gasp or shreek with delight while driving a Nissan Sentra SR Turbo. I would absolutely love it and I wouldn't count out a YEEE-HAAAWWW coming from iluvmysephia1.

Look where being a racer got Dale Earnhardt, Sr. - in a big pile of hurt. I'm not a raceboy and I never will be.
I do like to wear some cool sun-blocking shades down here in the southwest desert whilst driving my box-on-wheels.

stickguy

I luv, if I had to guess, I would bet the mrs I luv would much prefer the Sentra to ride around in.

iluvmysephia1

You're spot-on, stick.  

dino001

Mr_Shiftright said:

Everybody is a genius in a bull market, aren't they? I still relish some of Jim Cramer's incredibly wrong stock calls, as well as his god-awful advice in 2008.

So you remember it wrong. He was calling for everybody to get out for months. I have watched his show for years. He was the one of the first people on TV (not counting permabears, who were telling you to get out all the way from 2001) to tell the storm was coming. His infamous "they know nothing" meltdown was in September or August 2007, well before most people were aware there was something very wrong with the system. He did not change his tune until March 2009, which was the bottom.

In your "bad advice", you may be referring to the most misunderstood piece of talk television, i.e. a caller asking about Bear Stearns. People quote this as hims saying it was safe, as stock of Stearns day before the collapse (JP Morgan taking it "under"). Would be pretty damning, if it only were true. The caller actually asked about his account in Stearns (I heard it live and I knew what he asked), not the stock. He said it was safe and IT WAS, as JP Morgan simply took it over. Best of all, the caller was asked couple of weeks later, after the the takeover went into effect, whether his money in was OK. But who cares about the truth. Cramer had some bad stock calls over the years, but he did a lot to warn people about banks all the way from 2007 to 2009.

driver100

The car companies are starting to listen to me. The side windows are fairly large....the sill line dips a bit to make the windows larger!
I like the way Ford made the front side windows larger.....smart designing;

driver100

We’re about to see the final rise of history’s longest bull market, technical analyst says
The S&P 500 advanced 0.2 percent to close at 2,857.05 on Monday, and is now just under 0.6 percent from its January record.
On Tuesday, it will equal the longest U.S. bull market since World War II; on August 22, it will be the longest in history at nearly 3,500 days.
Since the index's bear market low of 676 on March 9, 2009, it's risen more than 320 percent, with major market movers like Netflix and Ulta Beauty up more than 5,500 percent.

fintail

I had a minor health scare a couple years ago, too, which no doubt helps me along these lines. Sure, I could be more "responsible" or miserly, but life isn't all about how much you can save. You earn it, enjoy it a little.

28firefighter said:

I have to agree @fintail. I almost kicked the bucket last summer and it was a real wake-up. Not saying that I use that as a reason to spend irrationally and irresponsibly, but if I'm not taking time to enjoy life now AND save for later, what is the point?

ab348

Same here re. health and longevity. With a pair of replacement heart valves, a couple of bypassed coronary arteries, bad arthritis in the lower body and now a kidney scare I suspect I probably won’t die of old age. So I’m gonna enjoy my savings. 

henryn

ab348 said:

Same here re. health and longevity. With a pair of replacement heart valves, a couple of bypassed coronary arteries, bad arthritis in the lower body and now a kidney scare I suspect I probably won’t die of old age. So I’m gonna enjoy my savings. 

That sorta kinda sounds like "old age" to me, did I miss something?

tbirdmarco

 Having trouble with the forms in logging in on my computer, from the phone all seems OK. Have to play around with this stuff more and figure it out. On my computer it wouldn’t take my email and password but I’ve been using for a couple of years now, and I double checked to make sure it was right. 

tbirdmarco

 Nice colors of cars posted above. 

tbirdmarco

 Been enjoying reading all else that’s been going on in here. 

ab348

Good point. I’m 62 which I don’t consider old age but YMMV. henryn said:

Same here re. health and longevity. With a pair of replacement heart valves, a couple of bypassed coronary arteries, bad arthritis in the lower body and now a kidney scare I suspect I probably won’t die of old age. So I’m gonna enjoy my savings. 

That sorta kinda sounds like "old age" to me, did I miss something?

henryn said:

Same here re. health and longevity. With a pair of replacement heart valves, a couple of bypassed coronary arteries, bad arthritis in the lower body and now a kidney scare I suspect I probably won’t die of old age. So I’m gonna enjoy my savings. 

That sorta kinda sounds like "old age" to me, did I miss something?

driver100

There has to be a balance between saving and spending. I have seen many people who live beyond their means....but, some people hoard money they could have spent......and enjoyed some things.
You don't want to run out of money, but, you shouldn't do without if you really can afford it.

henryn

I'm at the age (67) where I am thinking very hard about just how much living to do now, versus waiting. If I run out of money when I'm 85 years (which is only 18 years away), am I really going to care? What would I do at 85 that I would really enjoy? Or perhaps, what would I need with money at 85, above and beyond food and shelter?

Michaell

henryn said:

I'm at the age (67) where I am thinking very hard about just how much living to do now, versus waiting. If I run out of money when I'm 85 years (which is only 18 years away), am I really going to care? What would I do at 85 that I would really enjoy? Or perhaps, what would I need with money at 85, above and beyond food and shelter?

My mom turned 80 earlier this year, and after a lifetime of living off my dad's income and pension, she just doesn't have the ability to spend money. Just her living expenses, and a few meals out with friends and family from time to time. My sister and I are trying to get her out of the house more - shows and such. She did travel back east last year with my sister to visit some close friends, and she enjoyed herself immensely.

roadburner

iluvmysephia1 said:

Like I said in my midnight post last night, most people wouldn't gasp or shreek with delight while driving a Nissan Sentra SR Turbo. I would absolutely love it and I wouldn't count out a YEEE-HAAAWWW coming from iluvmysephia1.

Look where being a racer got Dale Earnhardt, Sr. - in a big pile of hurt. I'm not a raceboy and I never will be.
I do like to wear some cool sun-blocking shades down here in the southwest desert whilst driving my box-on-wheels.

Different strokes for different folks, and all like that; methinks Nissan had best pray that you aren't one in a million.
And as for Dale Sr., what killed him was his aversion to full face helmets and the HANS device.
Don't be so frightened of the track; you might actually enjoy it if you gave it a try- SR Turbo and all...

snakeweasel

ab348 said:

Good point. I’m 62 which I don’t consider old age but YMMV. henryn said:

Same here re. health and longevity. With a pair of replacement heart valves, a couple of bypassed coronary arteries, bad arthritis in the lower body and now a kidney scare I suspect I probably won’t die of old age. So I’m gonna enjoy my savings. 

That sorta kinda sounds like "old age" to me, did I miss something?

henryn said:

Same here re. health and longevity. With a pair of replacement heart valves, a couple of bypassed coronary arteries, bad arthritis in the lower body and now a kidney scare I suspect I probably won’t die of old age. So I’m gonna enjoy my savings. 

That sorta kinda sounds like "old age" to me, did I miss something?

Remember a 30 year old would think 62 is old, but a 90 year old would think it's young. It's all relative.

roadburner

I'm 61 and my goal with respect to cars at this point is make sure that each new one to be even more entertaining than the last.
That said, I really need to quit reading reviews of the Giulia QF and the M2C...

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

I had a minor health scare a couple years ago, too, which no doubt helps me along these lines. Sure, I could be more "responsible" or miserly, but life isn't all about how much you can save. You earn it, enjoy it a little.

28firefighter said:

I have to agree @fintail. I almost kicked the bucket last summer and it was a real wake-up. Not saying that I use that as a reason to spend irrationally and irresponsibly, but if I'm not taking time to enjoy life now AND save for later, what is the point?

One of the worst "sayings" is that "time is money"

No.

Money is elastic--you can "get" more if you need it, or spend less and have more money.

Time is inelastic--you never had less time in your life than you have now available to you. You can't "get" more time.

These two things can't be equal or "balanced".

abacomike

nyccarguy said:

I think the only one who strikes it rich via Ramsey is Ramsey himself. Seems like another huckster in an age of grifters and cons, selling miserly advice to those who don't remember to spend less than they make.

I think you're probably wrong about Ramsey. I heard him on several times on occasion and all he said then was exactly don't spend more than you make. Perhaps things changed since then. He spoke a lot against debt, which included buying cars on credit. I can say that - most of us here are sophisticated and sober enough to understand our own credit capacity and has enough will power to keep the debt well under it. However, there are plenty of people out there who don't have such internal brakes and will borrow every dollar that is offered to them by anybody. For those, a stark and somewhat rigid advice of avoiding debt altogether, including personal vehicle, may be the best thing they need. So I would not be so dismissive of it. There is no entitlement for a new car every few years, no matter how hard you work.

I agree.

The problem is that our economy exists on debt. If people stopped buying on credit, and only spent as much, or less, than they earned, our entire monetary system would utterly collapse. We are a debt-driven economy, not a productivity-driven economy. I mean, the government spends way more than it earns, so why would citizens be encouraged to "austerity"? For certain, the automobile biz would suffer horribly. The average monthly loan payment for a new vehicle hit an all-time high of $523 in the first quarter, according to Experian. The average amount borrowed by buyers of new cars, trucks and SUVs also climbed to a record high of $31,453.

Both monthly loan payments on my Infiniti ($612.27) & my wife's Pilot ($538.17 after I put $10,500 down) exceed the "all time high." I wholeheartedly agree with you that as a society, we are addicted to debt. The nation's economy should depend on debt as much as it does. Watch what would happen if interest rates were suddenly raised 2 points. Auto sales? Home sales? Mortgages? That's just the tip of the iceberg. Big corporations use low interest to finance equipment, real estate, capital projects... The stock market would nose dive for sure.

Don’t forget about the 22 trillion dollar national debt - financed by T-notes a T-bills.  If interest continues to climb, it could be a disaster for our economy.  Eventually, you have to pay the piper!

abacomike

snakeweasel said:

ab348 said:

Good point. I’m 62 which I don’t consider old age but YMMV. henryn said:

Same here re. health and longevity. With a pair of replacement heart valves, a couple of bypassed coronary arteries, bad arthritis in the lower body and now a kidney scare I suspect I probably won’t die of old age. So I’m gonna enjoy my savings. 

That sorta kinda sounds like "old age" to me, did I miss something?

henryn said:

Same here re. health and longevity. With a pair of replacement heart valves, a couple of bypassed coronary arteries, bad arthritis in the lower body and now a kidney scare I suspect I probably won’t die of old age. So I’m gonna enjoy my savings. 

That sorta kinda sounds like "old age" to me, did I miss something?

Remember a 30 year old would think 62 is old, but a 90 year old would think it's young. It's all relative.

I have no relatives older than me - wait, I think my father’s sister (my aunt) might still be alive in New York.  She was 8 years older than me.  See, some things are “relative”! 

Mr_Shiftright

Basically, every citizen regardless of wealth, wants the government to provide things, and every citizen, regardless of wealth, doesn't want to pay taxes for these things. This is true in America but certainly in many highly industrialized countries.

Thus, the government, in order to give you these things (and get re-elected and stay in power), borrows the money.

At some point, the people who lent the government the money, might look at this enormous debt and say "you know, I'm not so sure the government is going to be able to pay all this back"

That's when "austerity" kicks in---for you, not for them.

dino001

Mr_Shiftright said:

Basically, every citizen regardless of wealth, wants the government to provide things, and every citizen, regardless of wealth, doesn't want to pay taxes for these things. This is true in America but certainly in many highly industrialized countries.
Thus, the government, in order to give you these things (and get re-elected and stay in power), borrows the money.
At some point, the people who lent the government the money, might look at this enormous debt and say "you know, I'm not so sure the government is going to be able to pay all this back"
That's when "austerity" kicks in---for you, not for them.

This is spot on. I hear people complaining about roads, schools, all kinds of bad services and then adding in the second breadth that they "paid enough" taxes. But think about it, if about 25 percent of the people (or sometimes more) make a living based on government paying them directly (employees, retirees, welfare) or indirectly (contractors, subsidized industries), even if a portion of it recirculates back (taxes on wages and services), do people honestly believe they "paid enough" to have good/great schools, infrastructure, safety net for those in need and the enormous military this country maintains all over the world and sends to wars practically every ten-fifteen years? I just don't think so. The math simply doesn't add up, but nobody wants to hear about it. We will all pay some day. Probably not tomorrow, probably not day after, but "some day" may be sooner than anybody thinks. And it will not be announced. It's just like the old aristocrats, who were always "good for it", until the debtors ask "how about now".

imidazol97

ab348 said:

My sister and I are trying to get her out of the house more - shows and such. She did travel back east last year with my sister to visit some close friends, and she enjoyed herself immensely.

That's great that your mother could enjoy doing that. I remember taking my mother cross country to Illinois to visit with friends she and dad worked with in farming when they were young in the 1920s and 30s.

iluvmysephia1

Different strokes for different folks, and all like that; methinks Nissan had best pray that you aren't one in a million.
And as for Dale Sr., what killed him was his aversion to full face helmets and the HANS device.
Don't be so frightened of the track; you might actually enjoy it if you gave it a try- SR Turbo and all...

roadburner - what do you mean by "methinks Nissan best pray that you aren't one in a million."

As for Dale, Sr., I faintly remember that he didn't agree with fully suiting up for the race - regarding safety gear. I mean no disrespect - I just don't drive to race. I don't like being tailgated - I don't need to come in first place on the road.

roadburner

iluvmysephia1 said:

roadburner - what do you mean by "methinks Nissan best pray that you aren't one in a million."

Exactly what I said; I don't think that the Sentra is a bad car, but I think it's mid-pack in its market segment at best. I sincerely think that there are very few self-described enthusiasts who would pick an SR over the ST if the prices were roughly equivalent. Just my $0.02. As I said, different strokes.
Other Opinions:
Automobile Magazine
Car and Driver
Edmunds

suydam

Quotes from my Dad, who passed away at 93.
1. On looking at an assisted living place — he was 80 at the time — “All these people look so OLD!”
2. At the age of 90, reminiscing: “Back when I was 65, I felt great!”

It’s all relative!

abacomike

I rarely watch TV shows like “America’s Got Talent”, but there was nothing on cable, network or movie channels that I haven’t seen or would want to watch.  “The Incredible Dr. Pol” had reruns and there are just not many more cows giving birth to calves that I can tolerate.  Thus, I was forced into watching AGT tonight.

I tuned to NBC and there were two Sumo Wrestlers making sounds with their huge, bare bellies.  This, to me, became the low point in TV entertainment!  What made it even worse, Simon Cowel thought the act was marvelous.  My God - Simon Cowel, one of the staunchest critics of mundane and awful talent, liked this belly-rubbing duet.  The apocalypse is upon us!  We are doomed if this duo is seen as talent.  Lord, take me now before it’s too late - please.