Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

stickguy

I just hope it gets a lot more studying for medicinal benefits. Really seems promising in many issues, but big pharma certainly fought it!

PF_Flyer

Cars... as much as I agree with George Costanza that the subject should resolve itself based on its own momentum, and as this is a VERY well behaved group, the "P" word is always a concern to me

Carry on...

On an automotive tangent (smooooooth segue, eh?), during my oil change this morning at my buddy's tire shop/garage, was talking with the youngest counter guy, and for some reason, the Chevy Vega came up and he had never heard about how they shipped those Vegas



Seems pretty efficient to me, but can you imagine if a vehicle with "issues" like the Vega had were shipped that way in the age of the internet? I can see the forums now... Yea, the bad alignment problems came from the way they shipped them. The car was not designed to be hung like a picture of Grandma over the fireplace!

pensfan83

Most of my dealings with the marijuana industry has been with my compliance hat on. We're one of many large institutions that do not offer banking services to marijuana growers, suppliers, cultivators, dispensary owners, etc. Guidance was issued on how banks can offer banking services to the marijuana industry and the risk approach that would be needed but so far many aren't stepping forward.


If we ever changed our approach I can't say that it would drive me to seek employment elsewhere, quite the opposite in fact.

ab348

bwia said:

The problem with marijuana is marketing, or to be more specific, branding. No one can settle on a name with a positive connotation. Pot, connotes potheads and illicit behavior. Weed, a Rastafarian lifestyle. Cannabis, a term used by growers to promote its medicinal value. When the branding issue is pinned down there will be an explosion of marijuana use and public policy edicts will decry it while the revenue officers will love the tax receipts.

On a related note my daughter, who works for a big tobacco company, says her company is positioning itself to enter the marijuana business. They are working on several prototype delivery systems while promoting product uniformity a la John D. Rockefeller with Standard Oil and Whiskey makers vs the moonshiners.

Changing the image will take a long time. It has always been associated with silliness, from the unfortunate "4:20" foolishness to the names of the strains, most of which are completely off the wall and very high school pothead-ish.

I don't know if there will be an explosion of marijuana use given that most people still consume it by smoking it and that is an activity that govts have spent billions to demonize and ostracize. It is in some ways a product that combines the worst aspects of both tobacco and alcohol. Public Health groups will rise up, no doubt.

I'm surprised that the big tobacco companies have not already jumped in where it is legal. Seems tailor-made for them.

snakeweasel

suydam said:

As for the supposed 6% accident increase, remember that correlation does not imply causality. The studies do not suggest these extra accidents were actually caused by people who were high. It could be due to a number of factors — more older or younger drivers in a state, poorer roads, speed limit increases. . . 

Oh no, there you go, you're going to wake the andres prepare for his wrath.

driver100

fintail said:

Link?

Compared to states where it isn't? Any data about usage in said states no matter the legality? I can say without hesitation that usage here was common long before it was legal.

driver100 said:

Accident rates up 6% more in states that legalized pot.........all of us suffer....higher insurance rates, and safety is compromised.

98 seconds:

https://youtu.be/te50aaMv1_I

graphicguy

stickguy said:

I just hope it gets a lot more studying for medicinal benefits. Really seems promising in many issues, but big pharma certainly fought it!

I've heard of some of the reasons big Pharma is opposed to marijuana. None of those reasons are very flattering for Pharma...namely because it would take them out of health verticals like glaucoma, certain cancer drugs, certain pain reducing drugs, a large swath of the mental illness treatments, etc.

@PF_Flyer ....looks like an efficient way to ship cars. I would wonder how shipping them that way would affect the cars having all the weight, fluids and shipping "jostling" being pushed to the back of the car?

Vegas were a bit before my time. But, I remember seeing them around still when I was younger. The only ones I see these days are the Cosworth Vegas. Looking at the specs of those, it's hard to understand why they are collectibles. Doesn't seem like anything overtly special about them other than Cosworth did some engine massaging.

But, weren't those engines turds to begin with? How special can you make them?

driver100

snakeweasel said:

suydam said:

As for the supposed 6% accident increase, remember that correlation does not imply causality. The studies do not suggest these extra accidents were actually caused by people who were high. It could be due to a number of factors — more older or younger drivers in a state, poorer roads, speed limit increases. . . 

Oh no, there you go, you're going to wake the andres prepare for his wrath.

Yeh, even though only the states where weed is legal had an increase in accidents, but, it might be coincidentally because of more older drivers, poorer roads, etc.? But, people who smoke up are not the cause of the accidents, it is the people around them who don't know how to get out of their way.

graphicguy

Interesting video for us Acura fans.....
https://youtu.be/67pKJVUWCpI

stickguy

40k miles a year must be largely highway, so any car should easily go 200k doing that.

driver100

What do Vegas have to do with marijuana? I know, you'd have to smoke a few to want to go out and buy one.

Oh oh, making fun of a GM product....let's pick on VW.

PF_Flyer

graphicguy said:

stickguy said:

I just hope it gets a lot more studying for medicinal benefits. Really seems promising in many issues, but big pharma certainly fought it!

I've heard of some of the reasons big Pharma is opposed to marijuana. None of those reasons are very flattering for Pharma...namely because it would take them out of health verticals like glaucoma, certain cancer drugs, certain pain reducing drugs, a large swath of the mental illness treatments, etc.

@PF_Flyer ....looks like an efficient way to ship cars. I would wonder how shipping them that way would affect the cars having all the weight, fluids and shipping "jostling" being pushed to the back of the car?

Vegas were a bit before my time. But, I remember seeing them around still when I was younger. The only ones I see these days are the Cosworth Vegas. Looking at the specs of those, it's hard to understand why they are collectibles. Doesn't seem like anything overtly special about them other than Cosworth did some engine massaging.

But, weren't those engines turds to begin with? How special can you make them?

Oh those engines were special for sure... at least the one in my '73 Vega was. I miss buying cases of oil to save a few bucks...LOL

driver100

That Acura won't be worth much when he goes to trade it in..........although he said he is going to pass it on to a family member....just when it will need a pile of repairs!

Just joking.....nice that he could get 200k miles on it....must have been mostly highway miles like stick said, those are worth about 2 or 3 miles for every city mile.

ab348

For those who don't like the pivot to video, here is an article citing studies from the NTSB and IIHS.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-18/stoned-driver-crash-risk-grows-as-legal-pot-spreads-in-the-u-s

ab348

graphicguy said:

I've heard of some of the reasons big Pharma is opposed to marijuana. None of those reasons are very flattering for Pharma...namely because it would take them out of health verticals like glaucoma, certain cancer drugs, certain pain reducing drugs, a large swath of the mental illness treatments, etc.

People using marijuana bud to alleviate symptoms of any of those things are also subjecting themselves to all sorts of other and usually unwanted side effects, like being stoned out of their minds. It's a shotgun approach, or like chewing tree bark to cure a headache instead of taking an aspirin. Pharma will be all over it once it is legal to experiment with and extract the appropriate compounds (or reproduce them in a lab once isolated) to perform clinical trials that will prove or disprove its benefit, identify side effects, and if proven, compound them into accurate doses for prescription as targeted therapy. It is hardly a cure-all like some claim but does likely have some legit medical uses once studied fully.

dino001

driver100 said:

fintail said:

Link?
Compared to states where it isn't? Any data about usage in said states no matter the legality? I can say without hesitation that usage here was common long before it was legal.

driver100 said:

Accident rates up 6% more in states that legalized pot.........all of us suffer....higher insurance rates, and safety is compromised.

98 seconds:

https://youtu.be/te50aaMv1_I

I would like to see who did the study and who paid for it. I would like to see a study what were violent crime rates before and after, property crime, too. Emergency room due to overdose. I'm sure some data will go either way. And of course "hard stuff gateway drug" argument. So are the cigarettes, alcohol and other "experimentation".

As much as you or I may be personally opposed to usage, prohibitions based on trying to protect people from themselves always end in the same way - gangs become more violent and more powerful, law enforcement becomes more militant and focused on padding its statistics in war on whatever.

The history with 18th and 21st Amendments should teach us something, yet it seems it has not at all. I just can't imagine the frenzy the Country had to be in that people and politicians submitted to bullying of do-gooders. Hard to fathom who thought it was a good idea. Yet, we do it again, and again. We deem somebody grown up enough to go and die for the country, or co-decide its fate in an election, but he/she isn't grown up to have a drink. Then we of course act oh-so-surprised when young Americans drink til' they drop when they get their hands on it. That's plain insane.

dino001

ab348 said:

graphicguy said:

I've heard of some of the reasons big Pharma is opposed to marijuana. None of those reasons are very flattering for Pharma...namely because it would take them out of health verticals like glaucoma, certain cancer drugs, certain pain reducing drugs, a large swath of the mental illness treatments, etc.

People using marijuana bud to alleviate symptoms of any of those things are also subjecting themselves to all sorts of other and usually unwanted side effects, like being stoned out of their minds. It's a shotgun approach, or like chewing tree bark to cure a headache instead of taking an aspirin. Pharma will be all over it once it is legal to experiment with and extract the appropriate compounds (or reproduce them in a lab once isolated) to perform clinical trials that will prove or disprove its benefit, identify side effects, and if proven, compound them into accurate doses for prescription as targeted therapy. It is hardly a cure-all like some claim but does likely have some legit medical uses once studied fully.

It is true, but being Schedule 1 substance meant one couldn't even do research on it without going through hoops similar to access to nuclear silos. Same with trying to breed low-THC plants that still have other oils that had medicinal potential. Nope, let's just bury it and and try to pretend it's not there. Not to mention we voluntarily let go hemp ropes in favor of all that so-natural nylon.

graphicguy

stickguy said:

40k miles a year must be largely highway, so any car should easily go 200k doing that.

I concur. But, he also mentions he has a Legend with over 500K miles (shows it briefly at the beginning of the video).

While I'm putting together a wish list, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a 6-speed Legend Coupe.

Mr_Shiftright

driver100 said:

Accident rates up 6% more in states that legalized pot.........all of us suffer....higher insurance rates, and safety is compromised.

When you're stoned while driving, you're stoned. Doesn't matter what you ingested. It's pretty delusion to think that a pot high is "safer". Some people do think that unfortunately.

Mr_Shiftright

stickguy said:

I just hope it gets a lot more studying for medicinal benefits. Really seems promising in many issues, but big pharma certainly fought it!

You know I've been looking into that, and the hard, gold standard science supporting medical use is pretty scarce, as is the study of detrimental effects. The problem is that top-tier scientists are legally prohibited from testing the new strains that are on the market. So the few little weak samples they've tested from way back may not be at all like what people are now putting in their bodies. It's also been difficult for medical marijuana to outperform placebos in clinical testing done so far.

dino001

Mr_Shiftright said:

stickguy said:

I just hope it gets a lot more studying for medicinal benefits. Really seems promising in many issues, but big pharma certainly fought it!

You know I've been looking into that, and the hard, gold standard science supporting medical use is pretty scarce, as is the study of detrimental effects.

How can be there any real research if you go to jail for just putting this in your lab? Look at restrictions of Schedule 1 controlled substance and you get an idea how difficult is to research anything related to cannabis in the US.

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, that's a problem that needs to be resolved asap.

suydam

All the really solid research has been done in Europe because of our ridiculous laws, and the results are very clear. Marijuana has proven to be very very useful for those with chronic pain and for nausea due to chemotherapy. The formulas for these uses don’t get you high as those agents are removed. That’s why so many states are legalizing at least medical use.
Normal middle class folks use edibles and smoke pot, not just shady criminal types. And yes, people are driving stoned in states where it isn’t legal yet and have been doing so for years. This isn’t the 1930s jazz era, folks. It’s time to end the farce of prohibition. Glad Canada is doing it.

dino001

Also GW Pharma shows very large promise in treatment of high-level epilepsy (20-30 episodes per day). That's also based on a non-THC extract oil. This exact case shows how inhumane and ridiculous our laws are here. A company cannot setup a research about treating childhood epilepsy on a chance that somebody could get high using stolen weed from a small plantation they might have. What's worse, the drug derived from this plant would also be illegal and FDA may not be even allowed to evaluate it, unless the Pope and Santa Claus sign on the waiver.

You know, this reminds me Bobby Boucher's mama proclaiming "It's the devil!" whatever she didn't like at the moment.

roadburner

I took the Club Sport to my dealer today to get the A/C checked and the pinion seal replaced(small drip). My SA gave me a new X3. The 2.0 liter turbo four in this application is more than a bit on the slow side, but otherwise it's a very nice vehicle. While I could easily see myself owning an X3 M or an X3 M40i, I'd go withe a Stelvio Ti Sport over a non-///M X3.
Actually, I'm more interested in the X2 M35i that is coming out next year; 302 hp in the UKL2 platform(with a true limited-slip front diff) sounds like a lot of fun for an AWD DD:


I hope the high-back sport seats make it to the US:

dino001

Isn't X2, based on FWD platform, just like 1-series? Even as AWD, they'll be more live Volvo, i.e. essentially FWD car with occasional engagement of rear wheels at traction limits.

roadburner

Yes, but BMW claims that the M35i has a revised xDrive system that-along with the Torsen front diff- makes it handle in a much more neutral fashion than a conventional FWD based AWD system.

imidazol97

Changing the subject to cars, I saw an unusual car in the parking lot yesterday. It said Alpina and B7 on the rear. Then I looked closer and saw the rondel in the trunk center. I tried looking it up when I got home.

This one had line striping tape in geometric patterns on the side.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

40k miles a year must be largely highway, so any car should easily go 200k doing that.

That guy also has an Acura Legend with well over 500,000 miles on it. There's a different guy with a TSX that also has over half a million miles. Anecdotal stuff, but I'm not sure how many other brands of car have those kinds of anecdotes.

tjc78

imidazol97 said:

Changing the subject to cars, I saw an unusual car in the parking lot yesterday. It said Alpina and B7 on the rear. Then I looked closer and saw the rondel in the trunk center. I tried looking it up when I got home. This one had line striping tape in geometric patterns on the side.

600 HP beast is what that is.   Alpina is a BMW tuner and the B7 is pretty close to what an M7 would be if BMW made one.  

roadburner

Alpina is a firm that tunes BMWs, although the modifications are so comprehensive that the German government considers Alpina to be a vehicle manufacturer. In Europe there are Alpina versions of most every new BMW, and they are available through BMW dealerships. The US gets shortchanged, as BMW NA usually only offers a couple of Alpinas at any given time. Currently the only two available are the B7 sedan and the B6 Gran Coupe. I was lucky enough to nab a 2007 B7 press loaner and drive it to Fort Worth and back. It was an amazing car.

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yep, that's a problem that needs to be resolved asap.

No longer a problem up here.

stickguy

That lengend he said is over 500k, on the original clutch.

snakeweasel

imidazol97 said:

Changing the subject to cars, I saw an unusual car in the parking lot yesterday. It said Alpina and B7 on the rear. Then I looked closer and saw the rondel in the trunk center. I tried looking it up when I got home. This one had line striping tape in geometric patterns on the side.

I got behind one of those a few weeks ago. Apparently they don't put gas pedals in those things.

snakeweasel

benjaminh said:

40k miles a year must be largely highway, so any car should easily go 200k doing that.

That guy also has an Acura Legend with well over 500,000 miles on it. There's a different guy with a TSX that also has over half a million miles. Anecdotal stuff, but I'm not sure how many other brands of car have those kinds of anecdotes.

I think I mentioned it before that my parents got 250k miles out of a late 50's Ford. It helped that my uncle owned a service station. More than once I remember my uncle towing the car to his garage.

fintail

I've seen both the B6 and B7 on the road here. When I was a kid, I spotted an E28 Alpina in the neighborhood - I am pretty sure it was a grey market car from back in the day when such things weren't as unusual, it had the wacky stripe package:

fintail

A KGW news video? For real? Come on

driver100 said:

fintail said:

Link?

fintail

Correlation =/= causation. So much missing data from the bloomberg link.

Prohibition at what cost? That should be the thought to everyone who thinks big government is evil (except for when legislating morality, of course).

ab348 said:

For those who don't like the pivot to video, here is an article citing studies from the NTSB and IIHS.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-18/stoned-driver-crash-risk-grows-as-legal-pot-spreads-in-the-u-s

driver100

fintail said:

A KGW news video? For real? Come on

driver100 said:

fintail said:

Link?

If it is on FOX NEWS or CNN would you believe it? It has to be there, I heard it first on a network station....forget which one, probably CBS.

houdini2

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

A friends sister bought a used 2014 Nissan Sentra. The CVT transmission has to be replaced at a cost of $4200 CDN, about $3200 USD.

In the US there is a class action lemon law suit:
Nissan CVT issues are common among Nissan vehicles. Otherwise known as a continuously variable transmission, the feature was intended to increase the performance of vehicles by creating smoother gear shift capability. From 2012 to 2018, several models of Nissan vehicles received the transmission, including the Sentra, Versa, Versa Note, Altima, Rogue, and Murano models.
Some of the most common issues with the vehicles directly relate to the transmission. Reported issues include loss of power, transmission jerking, transmission slipping, CVT coolant hose leaks and failures, and a CVT error message being displayed. These problems call the Nissan CVT transmission reliability into question and can result in serious harm to unsuspecting drivers.
Nissan extended the warranty on some of these vehicles equipped with the CVT transmission from 5 years or 60,000 miles to 10 years or 120,000 miles. The extension covers repairs, replacements, and towing for issues related to the continuously variable transmission. For the warranty to be effective, vehicle owners must take their Nissan to a dealership for repairs.

Canada doesn't have a law suit going yet, and her car has 124000 miles on it! They are looking into it to see if there is a recall or fix. I don't know if I would buy a Nissan product....even a NISMO.

I don't know, a tranny failure at 124k miles while disappointing doesn't seem to warrant a class action lawsuit. The other question is why you would spend that kind of money on a miled up car.

Shouldn't a transmission last about 300000 or 400000 miles at least? And, she bought the car with less miles on it and she added about 30000 miles, but, it will cost more to fix the car than the car is worth.

Sometimes those Nissan CVTs can be revived with a trans fluid flush and refill. That is assuming no broken parts internally I believe @Michaell has some experience with this. 

Yes, I have a friend who bought a new Nissan Versa sedan with the CVT, and put over 100k on it in 4 years. The transmission started acting up and they thought it would have to be replaced. The flush and refill of the transmission fluid did the trick and the cost was less than $1000

.

Confirmation...I will definitely pass the info on.

Then again, just thought, $1000 is a lot to try something that may or may not work. I will pass on and he can decide.

I think I would just try to replace a few of those rubber bands first.

houdini2

suydam said:

You do realize that there are other options besides smoking pot, like edibles? Neither dirty nor smoky, unlike cigarettes. And many people who are very ethical use pot, just like some drink alcohol. This is just recognizing what people already do, as happened when we ended Prohibition.

suydam said:

You do realize that there are other options besides smoking pot, like edibles? Neither dirty nor smoky, unlike cigarettes. And many people who are very ethical use pot, just like some drink alcohol. This is just recognizing what people already do, as happened when we ended Prohibition.

Also it would put a lot of drug dealers out of business and might keep a lot of them from killing each other.

oldfarmer50

fintail said:

Laws and ethics lol. Abiding by something just because it is a law has nothing to do with being ethical. Dirty, ugly, stinky, sounds like tobacco, too. Maybe people can have the personal freedom to choose to smoke or not. I've never even touched a cigarette and never will, and IMO laws against one kind of smoking, while allowing the other, are asinine as possible - and that's saying something given the American legal system.

Pot has been legal in my state for several years. Society hasn't collapsed. It won't collapse in Canada either, in fact, I will wager it leads to less ills than booze and tobacco - substances that have rich lobbyist movements on their sides. Eventually, once some whiny old regressives hang em up, the US will evolve too.

"Hang em up" as in die? Wow! And I thought pot made you mellow. Maybe you should try Yoga. Get rid of all that anger.

driver100

houdini2 said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

A friends sister bought a used 2014 Nissan Sentra. The CVT transmission has to be replaced at a cost of $4200 CDN, about $3200 USD.

In the US there is a class action lemon law suit:
Nissan CVT issues are common among Nissan vehicles. Otherwise known as a continuously variable transmission, the feature was intended to increase the performance of vehicles by creating smoother gear shift capability. From 2012 to 2018, several models of Nissan vehicles received the transmission, including the Sentra, Versa, Versa Note, Altima, Rogue, and Murano models.
Some of the most common issues with the vehicles directly relate to the transmission. Reported issues include loss of power, transmission jerking, transmission slipping, CVT coolant hose leaks and failures, and a CVT error message being displayed. These problems call the Nissan CVT transmission reliability into question and can result in serious harm to unsuspecting drivers.
Nissan extended the warranty on some of these vehicles equipped with the CVT transmission from 5 years or 60,000 miles to 10 years or 120,000 miles. The extension covers repairs, replacements, and towing for issues related to the continuously variable transmission. For the warranty to be effective, vehicle owners must take their Nissan to a dealership for repairs.

Canada doesn't have a law suit going yet, and her car has 124000 miles on it! They are looking into it to see if there is a recall or fix. I don't know if I would buy a Nissan product....even a NISMO.

I don't know, a tranny failure at 124k miles while disappointing doesn't seem to warrant a class action lawsuit. The other question is why you would spend that kind of money on a miled up car.

Shouldn't a transmission last about 300000 or 400000 miles at least? And, she bought the car with less miles on it and she added about 30000 miles, but, it will cost more to fix the car than the car is worth.

Sometimes those Nissan CVTs can be revived with a trans fluid flush and refill. That is assuming no broken parts internally I believe @Michaell has some experience with this. 

Yes, I have a friend who bought a new Nissan Versa sedan with the CVT, and put over 100k on it in 4 years. The transmission started acting up and they thought it would have to be replaced. The flush and refill of the transmission fluid did the trick and the cost was less than $1000

.

Confirmation...I will definitely pass the info on.

Then again, just thought, $1000 is a lot to try something that may or may not work. I will pass on and he can decide.

I think I would just try to replace a few of those rubber bands first.

Maybe the mice need replacing!

berri

I've developed a pretty simplistic view toward pot: medical matters should be between the patient and doctor - period and from my experiences a stoner tends to be less obnoxious than a drunk. Legalizing pot let's the cops focus more on hard drugs instead of going for easy young people prey smoking a joint in order to meet the law enforcement government grant goals.

oldfarmer50

dino001 said:

Prohibitions are great - for the criminals (profits) and law enforcement (self-importance, money). They often cause the epidemics they want to prevent and make criminals smarter, more focused and better organized then they would be otherwise.

The Libertarian position would be that all drugs should be legal and available and there should be no penalty until you injure someone through your actions. It all boils down to how much trust do you have in your fellow man todo theresponsible thing. I don't know if I have that much faith in my self let alone anyone else. We can all agree that some laws are needed to control the bad actions of irresponsible people. Otherwise we'd say "why make murder illegal? People are going to kill anyway."

berri

Unfortunately, I don't think Libertarian politics is much different than Republican or Democrat - conveniently varies with the audience at hand.

suydam

I don’t think one needs to be a libertarian to advocate for marijuana legalization. You see people of all political persuasions making arguments for or against.

qbrozen

I got one for ya. 16-17 year old drivers have twice as many accidents as 18-19 year olds. Therefore, my "statistical analysis" supports banning 16 and 17 year old drivers will have a far far greater impact on safety than banning recreational pot use.

oldfarmer50

PF_Flyer said:

Cars... as much as I agree with George Costanza that the subject should resolve itself based on its own momentum, and as this is a VERY well behaved group, the "P" word is always a concern to me

Carry on...

On an automotive tangent (smooooooth segue, eh?), during my oil change this morning at my buddy's tire shop/garage, was talking with the youngest counter guy, and for some reason, the Chevy Vega came up and he had never heard about how they shipped those Vegas



Seems pretty efficient to me, but can you imagine if a vehicle with "issues" like the Vega had were shipped that way in the age of the internet? I can see the forums now... Yea, the bad alignment problems came from the way they shipped them. The car was not designed to be hung like a picture of Grandma over the fireplace!

I was not aware that they shipped them that way. Ithink I would not buy a car that was delivered like that. Maybe that WAS the reason Vegas were such junk.

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

Prohibitions are great - for the criminals (profits) and law enforcement (self-importance, money). They often cause the epidemics they want to prevent and make criminals smarter, more focused and better organized then they would be otherwise.

The Libertarian position would be that all drugs should be legal and available and there should be no penalty until you injure someone through your actions. It all boils down to how much trust do you have in your fellow man todo theresponsible thing. I don't know if I have that much faith in my self let alone anyone else. We can all agree that some laws are needed to control the bad actions of irresponsible people. Otherwise we'd say "why make murder illegal? People are going to kill anyway."

That all good until you live in a country with socialized medicine like Canada. Then the already overburdened medical system gets to try to fix all the problems the foolhardy segment creates.