Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

abacomike

Brisket turned out perfect with onions, mushrooms and garlic - lots of garlic.  Unfortunately, I have an appointment to see my cardiologist tomorrow morning - I don’t envy him when he asks me to take a deep breath and exhale. 

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

suydam said:

Actually, no.

Agree. The"market" is not benevolent, nor rational.

It is for me. Gas at $2.19 a gallon, I love driving my gassers, too old to switch, like the availability of gas, not sure electric of hybrid really do save money or resources...........

Gas at $4.30 in 2008 didn’t stop me from buying the v6 over the 4cyl. Having said that I’m glad gas is down to $2.50 when I’m driving the V8.

An electric powered Mustang just wouldn't be the same!

I agree but I saw a Tesla S take off from a stop once and I doubt my Mustang could have caught it in the 1/4 mile.

It won't catch it....but, the Mustang sounds better.....to me.

28firefighter

Well. I’m alive and the turkey turned out phenomenal. Big big hit. 

ronsteve

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

suydam said:

Actually, no.

Agree. The"market" is not benevolent, nor rational.

It is for me. Gas at $2.19 a gallon, I love driving my gassers, too old to switch, like the availability of gas, not sure electric of hybrid really do save money or resources...........

Gas prices in the USA are artificial. Gas is not rationally priced at all. It is a subsidized commodity. It should probably cost about $5-7 a gallon I would guess.

I dunno Shifty. When oil prices dropped to $30-$40 bbl, the oil companies whined and cried. They were all still profitable, though! I think prices are being artificially supported higher than what they should be based on commodity trading.

The shale fields up in North Dakota aren't really profitable much below $40/bbl. If you want prices much lower than that, we get to be more dependent on foreign sources again.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I agree but I saw a Tesla S take off from a stop once and I doubt my Mustang could have caught it in the 1/4 mile.

Just for laughs, here's an excerpt from the article I wrote when I covered the international launch of the F16 X6 back in 2014- when I was driving an X6 motivated by a 445-hp 4.4-liter twin turbo V-8...

All of which brings me to the Tesla Incident. The test route had become quite entertaining, a sinuous uphill two lane which reminded me a little bit of the Tail of the Dragon, only without the occasional pile of sportbike fairing debris. I had come upon a Ford Escape driving at a glacial pace, but there was no safe place to pass. I was fervently wishing my X6 was equipped with the BMW Dynamic Slow Poke Disintegrator when I noticed some bright LED running lights closing from behind. Fast. It was a Tesla Model S, and its driver was also eager to get going. About a mile later an uphill passing lane appeared; I switched the X6 into Sport+ and hammered it. As did the Tesla; I would be truly surprised if there were any doors or paint left on the hapless Escape after we both passed it. We remained evenly matched until the next corner, when the Tesla fell back. The next short straight saw him catching up, but at a somewhat slower rate. And so it went for the next several miles, until the Tesla was left waaay behind. I don’t know if the circuitous uphill slog depleted the Tesla’s batteries, overheated its power controller, or caused its driver to stop for some Depends. Regardless, I never saw it again.
Final Score:
Carbon Footprint- 1
Electron Man- 0

Thanks for making this old dinosaur happy.

ab348

The Vanilla software must have rolled out a change recently, as hitting the backspace button or the back arrow in the browser no longer gives you a refreshed list of bookmarks indicating that the discussion you just finished reading has no new posts. This happens in both Windows and iOS so it isn't a device thing.

oldfarmer50

ronsteve said:

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

suydam said:

Actually, no.

Agree. The"market" is not benevolent, nor rational.

It is for me. Gas at $2.19 a gallon, I love driving my gassers, too old to switch, like the availability of gas, not sure electric of hybrid really do save money or resources...........

Gas prices in the USA are artificial. Gas is not rationally priced at all. It is a subsidized commodity. It should probably cost about $5-7 a gallon I would guess.

I dunno Shifty. When oil prices dropped to $30-$40 bbl, the oil companies whined and cried. They were all still profitable, though! I think prices are being artificially supported higher than what they should be based on commodity trading.

The shale fields up in North Dakota aren't really profitable much below $40/bbl. If you want prices much lower than that, we get to be more dependent on foreign sources again.

Adjusted for inflation $40/bbl is pretty cheap. I’ve also read that advances in technology promise to reduce that $40 figure.

The real impressive statistic is that those shale deposits contain up to 200 years of $40/bbl oil. By then we’ll all have personal Star Trek transporter devices. Forget about flying cars.

graphicguy

dino001 said:

graphicguy said:

I dunno Shifty. When oil prices dropped to $30-$40 bbl, the oil companies whined and cried. They were all still profitable, though! I think prices are being artificially supported higher than what they should be based on commodity trading.

You mean bankruptcies of several multibillion dollar companies from shale were imaginary?

Dutch Petroleum did well, as did BP, Aramco, Exxon Mobile, Valero, Phillips 66, Conoco Phillips, I could go on. All of them still made a lot of money when bbl prices dropped.

By the way, the companies you alluded to have just come out of bankruptcy and are stronger and able to make money at lower barrel costs.

OPEC and the refineries no longer have the total dominance for oil it once did. Their artificial high prices can no longer be supported.

[Deleted User]

We visited the Cherry Creek mall location to check out the Model 3 before the purchase. Tough mall for traffic getting in and out, but they were the closest to us. We'll pick up the new car at the Littleton location next week.

Mike, I let the family know your regards and they send theirs along, too.

Regarding electric vs ICE, we're still very early in the development of electric vehicles and people buying them now are the guinea pigs (me included). Some buy electric for the environmental cause, others buy Tesla because of the performance capabilities, and some are more interested in not purchasing gas or being dependent on foreign oil. For me, the Tesla represents all those things. A bonus is the latest safety test results the Model 3.

While I appreciate good cornering and swift acceleration, I'm not totally attached to super performance, so we didn't opt for the 3.3-second 0-60 dual motor performance model. We went for the standard 5-second long range version and will be plenty happy with that. Owners have been reporting even faster acceleration, and living in Colorado at 5,000 feet, the benefits of lower air density combined with no ill effect on ICE power loss, will make this car much quicker than my Audi. But I really won't push it like that. No tracking, no illegal stuff on public roads.

That reminds me of a trip to NYC a couple of weeks ago. I was waiting for an Uber near Times Square and traffic was terrible, like 15 minutes to go 1 block terrible. There was a Hellcat idling away and the driver just kept revving up the engine and then peeling out his tires with the front brakes locked. I guess in NYC if you can't move fast, you make up other ways to take advantage of that big motor.

The cool thing is that our home solar has been producing more than we'd hoped, and our energy consumption is less than anticipated. Over the last 4 years production has been about 185% of consumption, and if my math is right (or "maths" if you're in England), we'll have just enough capacity to cover the house and daily driving with the Tesla.

[Deleted User]

I saw a little while back some discussion on mounting dishwashers under granite or quartz counter tops. Our home builder and quartz installer seriously messed that up with the side bracket install method, so when I replaced our GE dishwasher after an early failure, I went with the Smart Choice granite installation kit. They're metal strips with a threaded hole, and adhesive designed for granite/quartz. You have to install them according to the directions so the adhesive properly sets, but after a year we've seen no movement of the dishwasher. Totally worth the $10.

berri

OPEC, including the Saudi's are likely to cut some output in the near future. I agree with ronsteve about the higher profit point on fracking, as well as deep sea. I've also read several articles indicating fracked wells don't last as long as the reserves in traditional oil wells. I guess time will tell.

dino001

graphicguy said:

dino001 said:

graphicguy said:

I dunno Shifty. When oil prices dropped to $30-$40 bbl, the oil companies whined and cried. They were all still profitable, though! I think prices are being artificially supported higher than what they should be based on commodity trading.

You mean bankruptcies of several multibillion dollar companies from shale were imaginary?

Dutch Petroleum did well, as did BP, Aramco, Exxon Mobile, Valero, Phillips 66, Conoco Phillips, I could go on. All of them still made a lot of money when bbl prices dropped.

By the way, the companies you alluded to have just come out of bankruptcy and are stronger and able to make money at lower barrel costs.

OPEC and the refineries no longer have the total dominance for oil it once did. Their artificial high prices can no longer be supported.

Just because those survived, doesn’t mean others didn’t. Pretty much all domestic shale producers, some of them multibillion in valuation at peak, went bust or had to deeply restructure (including wiping out shareholders equity) to stay in business. Billions of dollars wiped out from investor’s portfolios. We don’t have to feel particularly sorry for them, as it surely was mostly of their own making, just an acknowledgement of reality that is much more complex than evil oil companies sitting on their billions, would suffice.

graphicguy

Just got a call from the delivery guy. Will be here with a new fridge by 2:30.

Going out to eat all the time gets pricey!

Mr_Shiftright

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I agree but I saw a Tesla S take off from a stop once and I doubt my Mustang could have caught it in the 1/4 mile.

Just for laughs, here's an excerpt from the article I wrote when I covered the international launch of the F16 X6 back in 2014- when I was driving an X6 motivated by a 445-hp 4.4-liter twin turbo V-8...

All of which brings me to the Tesla Incident. The test route had become quite entertaining, a sinuous uphill two lane which reminded me a little bit of the Tail of the Dragon, only without the occasional pile of sportbike fairing debris. I had come upon a Ford Escape driving at a glacial pace, but there was no safe place to pass. I was fervently wishing my X6 was equipped with the BMW Dynamic Slow Poke Disintegrator when I noticed some bright LED running lights closing from behind. Fast. It was a Tesla Model S, and its driver was also eager to get going. About a mile later an uphill passing lane appeared; I switched the X6 into Sport+ and hammered it. As did the Tesla; I would be truly surprised if there were any doors or paint left on the hapless Escape after we both passed it. We remained evenly matched until the next corner, when the Tesla fell back. The next short straight saw him catching up, but at a somewhat slower rate. And so it went for the next several miles, until the Tesla was left waaay behind. I don’t know if the circuitous uphill slog depleted the Tesla’s batteries, overheated its power controller, or caused its driver to stop for some Depends. Regardless, I never saw it again.
Final Score:
Carbon Footprint- 1
Electron Man- 0

Yep, the faster an EV goes, the slower it gets. There's a reason why Formula E races are only about 55 minutes long.

henryn

ab348 said:

The Vanilla software must have rolled out a change recently, as hitting the backspace button or the back arrow in the browser no longer gives you a refreshed list of bookmarks indicating that the discussion you just finished reading has no new posts. This happens in both Windows and iOS so it isn't a device thing.

Thanks for posting that. I had noticed exactly the same thing, but was unsure whether it was just on my end. Good to know it's affecting others.

henryn

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yep, the faster an EV goes, the slower it gets. There's a reason why Formula E races are only about 55 minutes long.

You might want to work on your wording there. After reading it twice, I think I know what you're saying. Maybe. On first read, well ...

dino001

henryn said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yep, the faster an EV goes, the slower it gets. There's a reason why Formula E races are only about 55 minutes long.

You might want to work on your wording there. After reading it twice, I think I know what you're saying. Maybe. On first read, well ...

He probably meant shorter, not slower. But same principle applies to all types of propulsion. More speed=more energy neeed=shorter duration on single load.

[Deleted User]

Great to hear the fridge is coming in, gg. Awful story.

graphicguy

berri said:

OPEC, including the Saudi's are likely to cut some output in the near future. I agree with ronsteve about the higher profit point on fracking, as well as deep sea. I've also read several articles indicating fracked wells don't last as long as the reserves in traditional oil wells. I guess time will tell.

We should bar them from selling anything to the U.S. and vice versa!

Mr_Shiftright

henryn said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yep, the faster an EV goes, the slower it gets. There's a reason why Formula E races are only about 55 minutes long.

You might want to work on your wording there. After reading it twice, I think I know what you're saying. Maybe. On first read, well ...

Well it's kind of a joke --the paradox of all that power dissipating at a faster rate as you go faster.

Maybe saying something like "the faster you go, the less time you can travel" ?

In real world terms, if a Tesla and some supercar raced for an appreciable distance, the supercar, if initially out-accelerated, would always overtake, and then stay in front.

Kinda reminds me of those old films with the original Austin Mini Cooper S racing against Corvettes in the early 60s at Lime Rock (a tight course). The Corvette would roar into the lead, but after a number of extended hot laps and braking, the Mini would pass and that was the end of that.

imidazol97

graphicguy said:

Just got a call from the delivery guy. Will be here with a new fridge by 2:30. Going out to eat all the time gets pricey!

What refrigerator.?
I can't find where you posted a purchsse.?

henryn

It depends on the batteries used, or I should say the battery technology. The newer generation of batteries give full voltage right up until suddenly they stop. I have an eGo string trimmer, which I really like and highly recommend. It runs at full speed, it never slows down. Until suddenly, it no longer works, and then you have to recharge the battery.

Three years ago, when new, the battery was good for about 45 minutes. Now, it’s about 18 to 20 minutes. Last year, I went shopping for a new battery. The battery alone was $129, a complete new unit was $179. So I bought a second unit, which still remains in the box, except for the battery. Makes you wish they included 2 batteries in the deal, as they do for most battery operated tools (drills, saws, etc). But the battery is obviously the most expensive part, so …

stickguy

Imid, glad I am not the only one that missed the fridge purchase.

abacomike

tyguy said:

We visited the Cherry Creek mall location to check out the Model 3 before the purchase. Tough mall for traffic getting in and out, but they were the closest to us. We'll pick up the new car at the Littleton location next week.

Mike, I let the family know your regards and they send theirs along, too.

Regarding electric vs ICE, we're still very early in the development of electric vehicles and people buying them now are the guinea pigs (me included). Some buy electric for the environmental cause, others buy Tesla because of the performance capabilities, and some are more interested in not purchasing gas or being dependent on foreign oil. For me, the Tesla represents all those things. A bonus is the latest safety test results the Model 3.

While I appreciate good cornering and swift acceleration, I'm not totally attached to super performance, so we didn't opt for the 3.3-second 0-60 dual motor performance model. We went for the standard 5-second long range version and will be plenty happy with that. Owners have been reporting even faster acceleration, and living in Colorado at 5,000 feet, the benefits of lower air density combined with no ill effect on ICE power loss, will make this car much quicker than my Audi. But I really won't push it like that. No tracking, no illegal stuff on public roads.

That reminds me of a trip to NYC a couple of weeks ago. I was waiting for an Uber near Times Square and traffic was terrible, like 15 minutes to go 1 block terrible. There was a Hellcat idling away and the driver just kept revving up the engine and then peeling out his tires with the front brakes locked. I guess in NYC if you can't move fast, you make up other ways to take advantage of that big motor.

The cool thing is that our home solar has been producing more than we'd hoped, and our energy consumption is less than anticipated. Over the last 4 years production has been about 185% of consumption, and if my math is right (or "maths" if you're in England), we'll have just enough capacity to cover the house and daily driving with the Tesla.

Don't know if you noticed, tyguy, but my grandson just started college at Doane University in Crete NE, just south of Lincoln. One of his teammates on the varsity baseball team invited him to Vail, CO for the long weekend for skiing and Thanksgiving dinner, etc. I knew if enough time went by, I'd have a relative living closer to you guys, assuming you guys are still in Colorado. The family flew my son in to Denver where they rented a car and drove to Vail. Got a text this morning - my grandson said he likes snow much better in Colorado where he can ski and snowboard in it - but hates the Nebraska snow when he has to go to classes and slosh around in it. They grow up faster than one would think.

berri

We should bar them from selling anything to the U.S. and vice versa!

I hear you, but the problem is that like most commodities, oil is fungible between intermediaries. I'd wager we are getting more Iranian oil than people think.

imidazol97

stickguy said:

Imid, glad I am not the only one that missed the fridge purchase.

I wonder if he bought a new car to o.lol

dino001

berri said:

We should bar them from selling anything to the U.S. and vice versa!

I hear you, but the problem is that like most commodities, oil is fungible between intermediaries. I'd wager we are getting more Iranian oil than people think.

If not Iranian, then somebody else uses theirs and we use other source, but the total supply is the same.

snakeweasel

Mr_Shiftright said:
In real world terms, if a Tesla and some supercar raced for an appreciable distance, the supercar, if initially out-accelerated, would always overtake, and then stay in front. 

In real world terms a lot has to do with the skills of the drivers. A lot of times I have left high performance cars well behind me when the road ran out of straightaways.

Mr_Shiftright

I mean "all things being equal", EVs cars will always lose to a supercar, for two reasons---one, because a supercar can go 200 mph and a Tesla can't, and because even if it were rigged to remove all restraints on power output, it is still a one-speed car with obvious RPM limits.

snakeweasel

dino001 said:

We should bar them from selling anything to the U.S. and vice versa! I hear you, but the problem is that like most commodities, oil is fungible between intermediaries. I'd wager we are getting more Iranian oil than people think.

If not Iranian, then somebody else uses theirs and we use other source, but the total supply is the same.

the majority of imported oil comes from the Americas.

Mr_Shiftright

Iranians are in general a well-educated people with many ties to the West. They'll always figure something out. Logically, they should be allies with Israel.

snakeweasel

Mr_Shiftright said:

I mean "all things being equal", EVs cars will always lose to a supercar, for two reasons---one, because a supercar can go 200 mph and a Tesla can't, and because even if it were rigged to remove all restraints on power output, it is still a one-speed car with obvious RPM limits.

Well there is no reason an EV cant do over 200, the Rimac C cand do over 250 and get to 60 in under 2 seconds. The main advantage the supercar has is almost instant refueling while an EV at its fastest will take at least a half hour.

Now the real thing is not being able to get to a certain speed, but maintaining that speed when you run into turns. 

tjc78

ab348 said:

The Vanilla software must have rolled out a change recently, as hitting the backspace button or the back arrow in the browser no longer gives you a refreshed list of bookmarks indicating that the discussion you just finished reading has no new posts. This happens in both Windows and iOS so it isn't a device thing.

Yep...I noticed this too.

tjc78

tyguy said:

I saw a little while back some discussion on mounting dishwashers under granite or quartz counter tops. Our home builder and quartz installer seriously messed that up with the side bracket install method, so when I replaced our GE dishwasher after an early failure, I went with the Smart Choice granite installation kit. They're metal strips with a threaded hole, and adhesive designed for granite/quartz. You have to install them according to the directions so the adhesive properly sets, but after a year we've seen no movement of the dishwasher. Totally worth the $10.

Next time mine has to come out, that’s what I’m using. The side mounts just don’t work as well.

Mr_Shiftright

snakeweasel said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I mean "all things being equal", EVs cars will always lose to a supercar, for two reasons---one, because a supercar can go 200 mph and a Tesla can't, and because even if it were rigged to remove all restraints on power output, it is still a one-speed car with obvious RPM limits.

Well there is no reason an EV cant do over 200, the Rimac C cand do over 250 and get to 60 in under 2 seconds. The main advantage the supercar has is almost instant refueling while an EV at its fastest will take at least a half hour.

Now the real thing is not being able to get to a certain speed, but maintaining that speed when you run into turns. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Except that the Rimac C hasn't been produced yet and it costs $2 million dollars. I meant "real world" in a literal sense---you know, practical uses and production cars. Both EVs and ICEs do particular things better than the other. Sustained high speed is not the EVs forte at the moment. Maybe someday, as you say--who knows?

I think we are talking about two different things btw: "quickest" vs. "fastest".

fintail

I like the Tesla vs X6 story in that it kind of reminds me of the Motor Trend (I think) piece where an E250 Bluetec faced off with a Prius in a real world highway driving economy run. They produced nearly identical numbers. I know which wheel I would rather sit behind.

Too bad the X6 seems to be BMW's attempt at chasing the demographic who buys new G-Wagens, and I don't mean that in a good way.

fintail

The economic impacts of gasoline at that price on the American market would far exceed the negative externalities of cheap gasoline.

With all of the trickle down tax gifts out there these days, I don't feel too bad about subsidized fuel, especially in a nation with such a threadbare transit network.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Gas prices in the USA are artificial. Gas is not rationally priced at all. It is a subsidized commodity. It should probably cost about $5-7 a gallon I would guess.

driver100

stickguy said:

Imid, glad I am not the only one that missed the fridge purchase.

Me too! I thought I had early stage memory loss.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

Imid, glad I am not the only one that missed the fridge purchase.

Me too! I thought I had early stage memory loss.

I'll bet it's a Black Friday surprise for us.

Maybe he bought a Stinger too?

henryn

Interesting discussion on EV versus ICE for racing, or high speed operation. I think it would be really interesting if someone (Tesla?) were to prepare an electric car for the Indy 500. Remember Andy Granatelli and the turbine engine at the Indy 500?

Granted, the electric car couldn’t run 500 miles on one battery, but I expect a good engineer could come up with a way to swap battery packs very, very quickly during a pit stop.

I suppose the inevitable outcome would be rule changes, making the electric car noncompetitive, just as they did with the turbine. After all, the Indy 500 is about loud high reving internal combustion engines, not about nearly silent turbines or completely silent electric cars.

Perhaps they could make fake sounds? After all, many car manufacturers do that today, piping in fake exhaust sounds through the stereo speakers.

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

The economic impacts of gasoline at that price on the American market would far exceed the negative externalities of cheap gasoline.

With all of the trickle down tax gifts out there these days, I don't feel too bad about subsidized fuel, especially in a nation with such a threadbare transit network.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Gas prices in the USA are artificial. Gas is not rationally priced at all. It is a subsidized commodity. It should probably cost about $5-7 a gallon I would guess.

Yes high fuel prices sucks huge sums of money out of the economy, that's true. But then, perhaps it is time for long-term thinking?

Mr_Shiftright

henryn said:

Interesting discussion on EV versus ICE for racing, or high speed operation. I think it would be really interesting if someone (Tesla?) were to prepare an electric car for the Indy 500. Remember Andy Granatelli and the turbine engine at the Indy 500?

Granted, the electric car couldn’t run 500 miles on one battery, but I expect a good engineer could come up with a way to swap battery packs very, very quickly during a pit stop.

I suppose the inevitable outcome would be rule changes, making the electric car noncompetitive, just as they did with the turbine. After all, the Indy 500 is about loud high reving internal combustion engines, not about nearly silent turbines or completely silent electric cars.

Perhaps they could make fake sounds? After all, many car manufacturers do that today, piping in fake exhaust sounds through the stereo speakers.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Tesla couldn't go fast enough for the Indy 500. (average speed is about 170 mph). They'd have to engineer a completely new car I suspect, which would be a) experimental and b) cost gazillions of dollars which I don't think Tesla has to spare.

Interesting idea, though.

fintail

In an economy with weak wage progression, doubling fuel costs would hurt those who can afford hurt the least. Employment is strong, but socio-economic indicators are as troubling as ever. High gas prices were fuel added to the great recession fire.

Long term thinking is a fun term, but when nobody is willing or able to pay for it, it can be tough.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yes high fuel prices sucks huge sums of money out of the economy, that's true. But then, perhaps it is time for long-term thinking?

snakeweasel

Mr_Shiftright said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I mean "all things being equal", EVs cars will always lose to a supercar, for two reasons---one, because a supercar can go 200 mph and a Tesla can't, and because even if it were rigged to remove all restraints on power output, it is still a one-speed car with obvious RPM limits.

Well there is no reason an EV cant do over 200, the Rimac C cand do over 250 and get to 60 in under 2 seconds. The main advantage the supercar has is almost instant refueling while an EV at its fastest will take at least a half hour.

Now the real thing is not being able to get to a certain speed, but maintaining that speed when you run into turns. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Except that the Rimac C hasn't been produced yet and it costs $2 million dollars. I meant "real world" in a literal sense---you know, practical uses and production cars. Both EVs and ICEs do particular things better than the other. Sustained high speed is not the EVs forte at the moment. Maybe someday, as you say--who knows? I think we are talking about two different things btw: "quickest" vs. "fastest".

I was using the Rimac C as an example that EV cars can do the same speeds as a supercars. If you want to use real world examples you cannot use super cars (really how many are there out there?) and exclude another simply because it's not in production yet.

No We are talking about the same thing "fastest" which translates into getting from point A to point B in the shortest amount of time. My original response to this was that the driver has a lot to do with which is fastest. Fact is if you put me on a Ford focus and someone else in a super car and if that supercar is driven be certain people I will wipe the floor with them, however other people would wipe the floor with me. 

abacomike

@tyguy

Was reading, with interest, your decision, as a family, to purchase a new Tesla Model S.  How happy I am for you guys.  That has recently, in the past couple of years, caught my eye in terms of styling and performance.  Unfortunately, I have no place near me to charge it.  So I stayed with a gasoline engine.

If, I the future, I can find a way of charging it, I would definitely consider one.  I wish you lots of driving enjoyment.

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

@tyguy

Was reading, with interest, your decision, as a family, to purchase a new Tesla Model S.  How happy I am for you guys.  That has recently, in the past couple of years, caught my eye in terms of styling and performance.  Unfortunately, I have no place near me to charge it.  So I stayed with a gasoline engine.

If, I the future, I can find a way of charging it, I would definitely consider one.  I wish you lots of driving enjoyment.

I would be interested in one also but the price point makes it a bit beyond our reach (you can donate to www.buysnakeweaselatesla.com). I am however eyeing a Hyundai Ioniq plug in hybrid, with a 29 mile electric range I could be on pure electric drive most days. 

Mr_Shiftright

snakeweasel said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

snakeweasel said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I mean "all things being equal", EVs cars will always lose to a supercar, for two reasons---one, because a supercar can go 200 mph and a Tesla can't, and because even if it were rigged to remove all restraints on power output, it is still a one-speed car with obvious RPM limits.

Well there is no reason an EV cant do over 200, the Rimac C cand do over 250 and get to 60 in under 2 seconds. The main advantage the supercar has is almost instant refueling while an EV at its fastest will take at least a half hour.

Now the real thing is not being able to get to a certain speed, but maintaining that speed when you run into turns. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Except that the Rimac C hasn't been produced yet and it costs $2 million dollars. I meant "real world" in a literal sense---you know, practical uses and production cars. Both EVs and ICEs do particular things better than the other. Sustained high speed is not the EVs forte at the moment. Maybe someday, as you say--who knows?

I think we are talking about two different things btw: "quickest" vs. "fastest".

I was using the Rimac C as an example that EV cars can do the same speeds as a supercars. If you want to use real world examples you cannot use super cars (really how many are there out there?) and exclude another simply because it's not in production yet.

No We are talking about the same thing "fastest" which translates into getting from point A to point B in the shortest amount of time. My original response to this was that the driver has a lot to do with which is fastest. Fact is if you put me on a Ford focus and someone else in a super car and if that supercar is driven be certain people I will wipe the floor with them, however other people would wipe the floor with me. 


The supercar will always get from Point A to point B faster than an EV, because EVs can't go that fast.

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A Porsche Turbo or Audi RS7 will beat a Tesla in the 1/4 mile, and certainly long distance. Yeah, it's "quick" but not the fastest.

cdnpinhead

Mr_Shiftright said:

But then, perhaps it is time for long-term thinking?

No one in North America engages in such a concept. You have to go to Asia for that sort of thing. It's certainly time to hide and watch, and I can't say I'm sorry to be old enough to not see how it all turns out.

tjc78

So the @tjc78 household did it’s part for the economy today!  For the first Black Friday in ages I decided to take off (usually many of the office members help out the local store locations).  So my reward for this was to be dragged out of bed at 4:30 AM this morning to go shopping with my wife!

Last year we shopped 90% online with Amazon, etc.  This year we cleaned up in the summer at the closing Toys R Us stores and only had to “finish up” today.  Finish up, was still 4 figures ....

Well we were at the first store by 5:15 and home eating leftovers by 12:30.  We are just about done now, except for a few gift cards.   My pool table (and two banquet tables) are full of gifts to be wrapped.  

We have never been done this early.  Quite a relief.  I think we actually did very well today. Sales were good and stores were in stock with the deals they advertised.  Walmart looked completely abused from the evening sale, but still had the ad items too.  Without Toys r Us they are a good destination for toys.   

Time for a cocktail! 

suydam

snakeweasel said:

abacomike said:

@tyguy

Was reading, with interest, your decision, as a family, to purchase a new Tesla Model S.  How happy I am for you guys.  That has recently, in the past couple of years, caught my eye in terms of styling and performance.  Unfortunately, I have no place near me to charge it.  So I stayed with a gasoline engine.

If, I the future, I can find a way of charging it, I would definitely consider one.  I wish you lots of driving enjoyment.

I would be interested in one also but the price point makes it a bit beyond our reach (you can donate to www.buysnakeweaselatesla.com). I am however eyeing a Hyundai Ioniq plug in hybrid, with a 29 mile electric range I could be on pure electric drive most days. 

29 mile range is not very much. The thing about electric range is its unevenness. If you’re on the freeway it’s much less. Having driven a Volt for 2 years now, 50 mile range is the lowest I’d consider if the goal is to never use gas around town. Although we routinely travel 12-15 miles and back, it uses more than the actual miles because over half is on the freeway.