Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

imidazol97

"Amana" appliances is owned by Whirlpool.

xwesx

Interesting tidbit in the Wikipedia entry for Whirlpool Corporation:

In October 2017, Whirlpool and retailer Sears Holding Corp. reportedly ended their 101-year old association that allowed Whirlpool branded appliances to be sold at Sears stores and later, at Kmart, the owner of Sears. The companies reportedly were unable to come to an agreement on pricing issues, Whirlpool will still continue to supply the Kenmore appliances they manufacture for Sears.[32] In October 2018, Sears Holding Corp. filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, leaving the future of the Kenmore brand undecided.

Mr_Shiftright

oldfarmer50 said:

Which Christmas gift would you like?

https://racenow.com/learn-to-drive-learn-to-race-learn-to-win/?utm_source=autoweek&utm_medium=eblast&utm_campaign=holiday_guide

https://bmwperformancecenter.com

I'll go with the Open Wheel thanks.

roadburner

oldfarmer50

Oh oh, trouble in paradise. After bragging about my dishwasher good fortune, the tech just left without installing it. According to him Bosch won’t allow installation unless there is a separate P trap for the dishwasher. Funny, since there have been two previous dishwashers before this, the last one also a Bosch installed by Lowe’s. I called Lowe’s to get a refund on the install charge and they were as puzzled as I was. They speculated that this was a Bosch policy and a different brand would have been more flexible.

Go figure, I play the dishwasher lottery and lose.

I called my go to plumber and they will send someone on Friday to do the install and fix a few other things I wanted done so I’ll be ok. But next time you buy an appliance you better check to see if plumbing codes have changed.

driver100

PF_Flyer said:

Before I forget... Happy Thanksgiving

That is about the greasiest looking turkey I have ever seen.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

Oh oh, trouble in paradise. After bragging about my dishwasher good fortune, the tech just left without installing it. According to him Bosch won’t allow installation unless there is a separate P trap for the dishwasher. Funny, since there have been two previous dishwasher before this, the last one also a Bosch installed by Lowe’s. I called Lowe’s to get a refund on the install charge and they were as puzzled as I was. They speculated that this was a Bosch policy and a different brand would have been more flexible.

Go figure, I play the dishwasher lottery and lose.

I called my go to plumber and they will send someone on Friday to do the install and fix a few other things I wanted done so I’ll be ok. But next time you buy an appliance you better check to see if plumbing codes have changed.

I can't find anything on google that talks about a separate P Trap for Bosch or any other make.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Oh oh, trouble in paradise. After bragging about my dishwasher good fortune, the tech just left without installing it. According to him Bosch won’t allow installation unless there is a separate P trap for the dishwasher. Funny, since there have been two previous dishwasher before this, the last one also a Bosch installed by Lowe’s. I called Lowe’s to get a refund on the install charge and they were as puzzled as I was. They speculated that this was a Bosch policy and a different brand would have been more flexible.

Go figure, I play the dishwasher lottery and lose.

I called my go to plumber and they will send someone on Friday to do the install and fix a few other things I wanted done so I’ll be ok. But next time you buy an appliance you better check to see if plumbing codes have changed.

I can't find anything on google that talks about a separate P Trap for Bosch or any other make.

Never heard of such a thing either, especially since the dishwasher and the kitchen sink (which does have a P trap) are connected to a common drain which exits the house.

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

I called Lowe’s to get a refund on the install charge and they were as puzzled as I was. They speculated that this was a Bosch policy and a different brand would have been more flexible.

Since the installer was a Lowe's contractor, and since I would guess they probably sell a lot of Bosch dishwashers, I would think that they should talk to their contractor about it, since otherwise they are going to be dealing with a lot of unhappy customers.

I dunno how you would have a dedicated P-trap for a dishwasher unless it had its own dedicated drain line. I always read that putting two P-traps in-line with each other was a bad idea.

carnaught

Speaking of turkeys, remember this?

stickguy

I originally got either whirlpool or maytag, but returned it in exchange for the LG fridge. The first one was just ridiculously loud. My wife came home, heard it once, and said it has to go. LG is whisper quiet in comparison.

graphicguy

ab348 said:

graphicguy said:

Thanks for the info on the other brands.

Also, Amana appliances are now owned by Whirlpool. They got it when they bought Maytag, who in turn got it from Goodman/Daikin, who bought Amana in the '90s. Daikin kept the Amana name for heating and cooling products and sold off the appliance division. My experience seeing Amana appliances these days in stores is that they are a low-end brand. Unfortunate, as I remember when Amana was a prestige brand.

It is what it is. It’s Thanksgiving. At least for the next day or two, I ain’t sweating it.

graphicguy said:

Funny, one of the 3rd party LG techs I had originally called last week finally got back to me just now. They can’t even come out until mid-end of December for LG fridges. He said the compressors are known issues with recent LG fridges (the ones with the 10 year warranties). Pretty knowledgeable guy....said LG is aware of the issue and can’t get enough compressors to cover the ones that have gone bad.

He was honest and said LG isn’t really on top of the fridge issues and he’s swamped with just LG repairs (he repairs all of them).

He also said there’s a class action law suit against LG for the issue. Interesting.

Uh-oh. I smell a buyback claim coming! They have no idea who they're dealing with!!

If they want it, it’s sitting in my kitchen, all warm and inoperable.

And, your damn right I’ll pursue them to refund me. Personally, I think most settle for less than what’s promised. Then, they grumble about it instead of holding those responsible to keep their promises. I don’t care if it’s a lemon car or a lemon fridge. If it ain’t right, fix it right. If you can’t do that reasonably, then expect me to hold you responsible.

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/860317-lg-class-action-says-refrigerator-compressor-defect-spoils-food/

driver100

stickguy said:

I originally got either whirlpool or maytag, but returned it in exchange for the LG fridge. The first one was just ridiculously loud. My wife came home, heard it once, and said it has to go. LG is whisper quiet in comparison.

Maybe it isn't plugged in!

driver100

graphicguy said:

ab348 said:

graphicguy said:

Thanks for the info on the other brands.

Also, Amana appliances are now owned by Whirlpool. They got it when they bought Maytag, who in turn got it from Goodman/Daikin, who bought Amana in the '90s. Daikin kept the Amana name for heating and cooling products and sold off the appliance division. My experience seeing Amana appliances these days in stores is that they are a low-end brand. Unfortunate, as I remember when Amana was a prestige brand.

It is what it is. It’s Thanksgiving. At least for the next day or two, I ain’t sweating it.

graphicguy said:

Funny, one of the 3rd party LG techs I had originally called last week finally got back to me just now. They can’t even come out until mid-end of December for LG fridges. He said the compressors are known issues with recent LG fridges (the ones with the 10 year warranties). Pretty knowledgeable guy....said LG is aware of the issue and can’t get enough compressors to cover the ones that have gone bad.

He was honest and said LG isn’t really on top of the fridge issues and he’s swamped with just LG repairs (he repairs all of them).

He also said there’s a class action law suit against LG for the issue. Interesting.

Uh-oh. I smell a buyback claim coming! They have no idea who they're dealing with!!

If they want it, it’s sitting in my kitchen, all warm and inoperable.

And, your damn right I’ll pursue them to refund me. Personally, I think most settle for less than what’s promised. Then, they grumble about it instead of holding those responsible to keep their promises. I don’t care if it’s a lemon car or a lemon fridge. If it ain’t right, fix it right. If you can’t do that reasonably, then expect me to hold you responsible.

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/860317-lg-class-action-says-refrigerator-compressor-defect-spoils-food/

Way to go GG. Document all receipts, record when phone calls were made and what was said, written emails would be good, note or pictures of food that was spoiled and a receipt from the restaurant could all be helpful.

Good luck, I hope those guys have to pay up, and double damages would look good on them and be fair considering what they have put these people through....with a fake warranty.

ab348

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

I originally got either whirlpool or maytag, but returned it in exchange for the LG fridge. The first one was just ridiculously loud. My wife came home, heard it once, and said it has to go. LG is whisper quiet in comparison.

Maybe it isn't plugged in!

I was thinking that maybe it had just quit like GG's.

dino001

graphicguy said:

If they want it, it’s sitting in my kitchen, all warm and inoperable.

And, your damn right I’ll pursue them to refund me. Personally, I think most settle for less than what’s promised. Then, they grumble about it instead of holding those responsible to keep their promises. I don’t care if it’s a lemon car or a lemon fridge. If it ain’t right, fix it right. If you can’t do that reasonably, then expect me to hold you responsible.

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/860317-lg-class-action-says-refrigerator-compressor-defect-spoils-food/

All for it, but we usually don't have time or patience. They of course prey on that. The best part is still that lady asking you how she could make the "experience" more pleasant for you. Feels like a bad plagiarism of a Kafka novel.

oldfarmer50

carnaught said:

Speaking of turkeys, remember this?

That was one of the funniest Seinfeld episodes.

oldfarmer50

Take THAT Honda.

https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/2011-lincoln-town-car-series/6754690784.html

xwesx

oldfarmer50 said:

Take THAT Honda.

https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/2011-lincoln-town-car-series/6754690784.html

Hahaha; "sacrifice." I notice there's not one photo of the interior....

ab348

Back when I was working our company sometimes used a car service that had a fleet of those Lincolns. Talking to one of the drivers, he indicated they all had several hundred thousand miles, some over 400,000. Yet they were so well maintained that you would never know it. Not only did they run really well, but the interiors showed almost no wear. Quite remarkable.

Mr_Shiftright

At 500,000 miles, it should be given away free. Life expectancy? About 4 minutes.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

Take THAT Honda.

https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/2011-lincoln-town-car-series/6754690784.html

Perfect car....for the Lincoln Lawyer. Even has an office desk on it's stretched body.
514000 miles, not much life left in that baby.
What is holding you back OF. Once again, it looks too perfect to me....any car that has that much mileage should have some imperfections. I will say they seem honest about the mileage at least, but the rear end seems jacked up compared to the rear wheels. My big worry is I see it as a money pit, I don't think there are many miles left, probably on the 3rd or 4th engine. How come 50 to 60k miles a year? Too many "How comes".

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Take THAT Honda.

https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/2011-lincoln-town-car-series/6754690784.html

Perfect car....for the Lincoln Lawyer. Even has an office desk on it's stretched body.
514000 miles, not much life left in that baby.
What is holding you back OF. Once again, it looks too perfect to me....any car that has that much mileage should have some imperfections. I will say they seem honest about the mileage at least, but the rear end seems jacked up compared to the rear wheels. My big worry is I see it as a money pit, I don't think there are many miles left, probably on the 3rd or 4th engine. How come 50 to 60k miles a year? Too many "How comes".

The mileage has one too many zeros on the end for me. Otherwise...

This is more to my liking for that price point. Same car basically.

https://westernmass.craigslist.org/cto/d/2007-grand-marquis-gs/6742609310.html

qbrozen

carnaught said:

Speaking of turkeys, remember this?

"hey, buddy."

LOL

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Take THAT Honda.

https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/2011-lincoln-town-car-series/6754690784.html

Perfect car....for the Lincoln Lawyer. Even has an office desk on it's stretched body.
514000 miles, not much life left in that baby.
What is holding you back OF. Once again, it looks too perfect to me....any car that has that much mileage should have some imperfections. I will say they seem honest about the mileage at least, but the rear end seems jacked up compared to the rear wheels. My big worry is I see it as a money pit, I don't think there are many miles left, probably on the 3rd or 4th engine. How come 50 to 60k miles a year? Too many "How comes".

The mileage has one too many zeros on the end for me. Otherwise...

This is more to my liking for that price point. Same car basically.

https://westernmass.craigslist.org/cto/d/2007-grand-marquis-gs/6742609310.html

Looks a little rough in places but at least it doesn't have that phony too perfect look.

driver100

For you guys with the snow and cold: I know it isn't PC but, it wouldn't make sense otherwise;

A blonde driving a car became lost in a snowstorm. She didn't panic however, because she remembered what her dad had once told her. "If you ever get stuck in a snowstorm, just wait for a snow plow to come by and follow it." Sure enough, pretty soon a snow plow came by, and she started to follow it. She followed the plow for about forty-five minutes.

Finally the driver of the truck got out and asked her what she was doing. And she explained that her dad had told her if she ever got stuck in a snow storm, to follow a plow.

The driver nodded and said, "Well, I'm done with the Wal-Mart parking lot, do you want to follow me over to Best Buy now?

berri

Kenny Rogers Roasted Chicken

carnaught

You mean?

abacomike

berri said:

Kenny Rogers Roasted Chicken

“Broasted” Chicken, IIRC! 

berri

That's right - got me!

abacomike

Texted my grandson to wish him a Happy Thanksgiving out in Nebraska.  He texted back informing me that a a baseball teammate’s parents invited him to Vail, Colorado, for the long weekend to a Ski Lodge.  Must be nice to have rich teammates - they paid for his airfare and a rental car and they drove to Vail from Denver.

Oh, to be young again. 

berri

As we age, maybe we can dream better

driver100

This is from an appliance repairman, copied from Quora:

You should know something about the appliance industry: Planned obsolescence. The manufacturers intend for their machines to be replaced every ten years. Imagine a bell curve with the peak at ten years. Some machines will fail sooner, some later. Engineers attempt to keep the peak of that curve as tall as possible and as tight as possible. Whirlpool is better than the rest at this.

Amana used to make a fridge with the coils going up the back of the machine. The omission of a condenser fan (not needed due to natural circulation) means it can't break down, and the coils in that position will probably never get clogged. This machine was built without a computer, just simple mechanical cold controls and defrost timer. You know -- the way all fridges were built 20 years ago. The last one I saw in the wild was manufactured in 2013. If you can still find one, that's the one you want.

Keep in mind, you have a "choice" of about five manufacturers, with varying levels of quality from "Poor," to "Awful." Here's my preference, listed in order.
Whirlpool (Whirlpool owns Maytag, Amana, Kitchen Aid, Roper, and some Kenmore's are built by Whirlpool.)
Frigidaire (Frigidaire owns, or rather is owned by Electrolux, and builds some Kenmore's.)
Bosch (Best known for their dishwashers, but has moved into refrigerators and stoves. Used to be excellent quality, but has fallen far.)
GE (Also known as Hotpoint. GE employees are given deep discounts for purchasing GE machines, and many still refuse to buy them!) GE’s appliance division was sold to Haier in 2016.
LG (If they make cell phones, you probably don't want their appliances. Some Kenmore's are built by LG.)
Samsung (See above.)

suydam

I’d take that with a grain of salt. Appliances are like cars. They last as long as they last. Newer ones are more energy efficient and thus more complex. According to the website I’ve looked at, the big problem with ALL of them, not just one or two, is the lack of service support industry wide. This has many causes, and can’t just be put down to some conspiracy on the part of manufacturers. After all, if your appliance breaks early, you’re not likely to buy that brand again. Not only do the big box stores not provide service, there has been a general loss of independent repair shops. The combination is not a good one for consumers.

dino001

I agree, planned obsolescence is a tricky concept. Most people would hapily take 10 year replacement cycle, considering that many of those machines are notably better in terms of performance or energy usage after such time. It’s really them breaking at five years or less that creates consumer dissatisfaction resulting with brand switch, especially if there is less than stellar service support, or parts availability. So if so many of them break so early and these guys can’t fix them in a timely manner, they aren’t such evil geniuses, as some portray them. Such events only cost them future sales, not secure them.

Much more likely reason for those quality issues is market pricing pressures (compare effective price of any appliance 25 years ago and today, adjusted for inflation), causing excessive cost cutting, combined with growing complexity due to increasing demand for energy efficiency and features, generated by consumers or the government. The complexity also causes problems with repairs, making them prohibitively expensive and inefficient, causing even more pressure for cost cutting and making the machines single use. Why spend 800 bucks on a compressor replacement for your five year old fridge, from which 400-500 is actually to pay a guy to come twice to your house, if for a few hundred more you can get a new one of a different brand with better features, using less energy?

One thing that bothers me is that those aggregate energy savings are much smaller than environmentalist try to sell us, as landfills get littered with junked machines that could still be in use, if they had better parts, or more reasonable repair cost due to more repair-friendly design. That’s a lot of wasted energy.

suydam

I hardly think that is environmentalists’ fault. The prohibitive cost of repairs is a problem for all machines now. No motivation to keep fixing them and even more a dearth of repairservices. A vicious circle.

dino001

suydam said:

I hardly think that is environmentalists’ fault. The prohibitive cost of repairs is a problem for all machines now. No motivation to keep fixing them and even more a dearth of repairservices. A vicious circle.

The government mandated certain levels of energy efficiency. Recent increases were done by an administration, which was environmentalist at nearly religious levels, just like current one is pro-dirty industry, because we just can’t have something reasonable that would balance both interest in a way that makes sense. Those new cranked up requirements triggered designs that just don’t make sense, like a dishwasher without heater, or other machines with diminished overall performance, or detergents that didn’t work, because phosphoran replacements were not ready for prime time, but the officials didn’t care.

abacomike

Due to a lack of decent TV programming tonight, I started watching “Last Man Standing” reruns - 7 shows tonight alone.  Never watched it before but quite humorous - Tim Allen and Hector Elizalde.  I think I have found yet another opportunity for binge-watching! 

suydam

We are watching a 4 part series on Napoleon. Quite enlightening!

tjc78

@oldfarmer50 .... you post a lot of Panthers. You know you want one! I’d pass on the silver one. That’s a base model. You’ll want an LS, 2004, and 2006+ are good years. Look for one with fog lights and the wood steering wheel. With those options chances are it’s not an ex rental. Once you get past 2008 very hard to find examples like that.

2003 had soft rear axles and 2005 is the odd duck. First with DBW (and odd programming), the old dash, and for whatever reason a rear mounted antenna. Years prior and after all have them in the glass... So if you ever see a late run Panther with a rear antenna you’ll know it’s an 05.

Ok.. I’ve bored you all enough.

Happy Thanksgiving! Football starts 12:30 !

driver100

The appliance makers don't care if you switch brands when your new LG fridge bites the dust after 5 years. You may switch to a Samsung and the dissatisfied Samsung owners will switch to LG. For everyone they lose they gain a new one....I think there is collusion :@

venture

stickguy said:

I originally got either whirlpool or maytag, but returned it in exchange for the LG fridge. The first one was just ridiculously loud. My wife came home, heard it once, and said it has to go. LG is whisper quiet in comparison.

GG's is whisper quiet too.

venture

dino001 said:

graphicguy said:

If they want it, it’s sitting in my kitchen, all warm and inoperable.

And, your damn right I’ll pursue them to refund me. Personally, I think most settle for less than what’s promised. Then, they grumble about it instead of holding those responsible to keep their promises. I don’t care if it’s a lemon car or a lemon fridge. If it ain’t right, fix it right. If you can’t do that reasonably, then expect me to hold you responsible.

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/860317-lg-class-action-says-refrigerator-compressor-defect-spoils-food/

All for it, but we usually don't have time or patience. They of course prey on that. The best part is still that lady asking you how she could make the "experience" more pleasant for you. Feels like a bad plagiarism of a Kafka novel.

When I run into a service rep who acts like that I ask if there is someone there with any common sense I can talk to. They usually get angry.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

@oldfarmer50 .... you post a lot of Panthers. You know you want one! I’d pass on the silver one. That’s a base model. You’ll want an LS, 2004, and 2006+ are good years. Look for one with fog lights and the wood steering wheel. With those options chances are it’s not an ex rental. Once you get past 2008 very hard to find examples like that.

2003 had soft rear axles and 2005 is the odd duck. First with DBW (and odd programming), the old dash, and for whatever reason a rear mounted antenna. Years prior and after all have them in the glass... So if you ever see a late run Panther with a rear antenna you’ll know it’s an 05.

Ok.. I’ve bored you all enough.

Happy Thanksgiving! Football starts 12:30 !

You’re right, I’m a fan of those big boats. Strangely, I’m not as fond of the Lincoln or Ford versions. I agree, the LS would be the way to go. This one has a bit more mileage but still acceptable if I could expect to get another couple of hundred thousand miles out of it.

https://westernmass.craigslist.org/ctd/d/2007-mercury-grand-marquis-ls/6744139553.html

I just have to figure out where I’d park it as the driveway is getting pretty full.

driver100

We are having a good time watching the Closer on Prime. Police Chief Brenda Johnson drives around in a battered up old Ford police car....the only picture I can find is this one...it is the gray one and the chrome is falling off the side.

snakeweasel

ab348 said:

Back when I was working our company sometimes used a car service that had a fleet of those Lincolns. Talking to one of the drivers, he indicated they all had several hundred thousand miles, some over 400,000. Yet they were so well maintained that you would never know it. Not only did they run really well, but the interiors showed almost no wear. Quite remarkable.

Last time I took a car service to the airport it was in a Town Car. The driver told me it was nearing 500k miles. Car seemed to ride almost new and the interior held up great. Those are great cars to be chauffeured around in.

ab348

I don't watch much scripted TV of any sort these days except Blue Bloods (which I think is getting tired) but have bitten on a few HGTV series of late. I cannot stand many of them (Fixer Upper comes to mind in that category but there are a bunch I cannot bring myself to watch) but to my surprise I quite enjoy two "flipper" series. Flip or Flop Atlanta is perhaps the best I have seen with only a little of the requisite fake drama and a couple that seems pretty down to earth and not particularly flaky. The other I like is Desert Flippers based out of Palm Springs. The couple is a bit cutesy sometimes but they seem fairly straightforward and both are good at presenting things in an appealing way without a whole lot of excess fluff.

snakeweasel

abacomike said:t

Due to a lack of decent TV programming tonight, I started watching “Last Man Standing” reruns - 7 shows tonight alone.  Never watched it before but quite humorous - Tim Allen and Hector Elizalde.  I think I have found yet another opportunity for binge-watching! 

That show was canned by the original network and Fox picked it up a year or two later. I do believe all the actors except one who played one of the daughters are still playing their original parts. One of our streaming services now has "Green Acres" and I must say we watched a couple of hours of it last night, my wife never saw it before and she rather enjoys it (so do I).

snakeweasel

Happy day turkeys.... I mean happy Turkey day.

https://www.earnthenecklace.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/funny-thanksgiving-memes-2016.jpg

driver100

Then, there is Mr Bean, sticking his head into the Christmas turkey to see if it was ready yet;