Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

abacomike

snakeweasel said:

abacomike said:t

Due to a lack of decent TV programming tonight, I started watching “Last Man Standing” reruns - 7 shows tonight alone.  Never watched it before but quite humorous - Tim Allen and Hector Elizalde.  I think I have found yet another opportunity for binge-watching! 

That show was canned by the original network and Fox picked it up a year or two later. I do believe all the actors except one who played one of the daughters are still playing their original parts. One of our streaming services now has "Green Acres" and I must say we watched a couple of hours of it last night, my wife never saw it before and she rather enjoys it (so do I).

That used to be one of my favorites - typical hayseed and slapstick rolled into one situation comedy.  Eddie Albert was an excellent drama actor and Eva Gabor the epitome of what used to be called a “dumb blond” which was all a put-on.  I believe it was a spin-off from Pettycoat Junction, IIRC.

abacomike

ab348 said:

I don't watch much scripted TV of any sort these days except Blue Bloods (which I think is getting tired) but have bitten on a few HGTV series of late. I cannot stand many of them (Fixer Upper comes to mind in that category but there are a bunch I cannot bring myself to watch) but to my surprise I quite enjoy two "flipper" series. Flip or Flop Atlanta is perhaps the best I have seen with only a little of the requisite fake drama and a couple that seems pretty down to earth and not particularly flaky. The other I like is Desert Flippers based out of Palm Springs. The couple is a bit cutesy sometimes but they seem fairly straightforward and both are good at presenting things in an appealing way without a whole lot of excess fluff.

Yes, I watch “Bluebloods” religiously.  After “Danny’s” wife died, it slowed down a bit.  But now “Jack” is off to college and “Jaimie” is a Sargent and is engaged to Edit.  It looks like they are trying to freshen the series up with some twists and turns.

Tough to do that with Tom Sellick as the Patriarch with half a foot in the grave like some of us.

abacomike

dino001 said:

I hardly think that is environmentalists’ fault. The prohibitive cost of repairs is a problem for all machines now. No motivation to keep fixing them and even more a dearth of repairservices. A vicious circle.

The government mandated certain levels of energy efficiency. Recent increases were done by an administration, which was environmentalist at nearly religious levels, just like current one is pro-dirty industry, because we just can’t have something reasonable that would balance both interest in a way that makes sense. Those new cranked up requirements triggered designs that just don’t make sense, like a dishwasher without heater, or other machines with diminished overall performance, or detergents that didn’t work, because phosphoran replacements were not ready for prime time, but the officials didn’t care.

Dino, playing devil’s advocate for a few moments, if the government doesn’t force reduced consumption of fossil fuels, increased utilization of renewable energy or higher efficiency appliances, who will?  The manufacturers?  The consumers?  Of course not.

I am not a believer in government dictating to me what I want, but someone or something has to take the lead in doing what it can to make our environment livable/sustainable.  The private sector had its chance - now we need to do something else to curb our appetites for carbon based fuels.  At least until we can get a grip on this dilemma.

dino001

driver100 said:

The appliance makers don't care if you switch brands when your new LG fridge bites the dust after 5 years. You may switch to a Samsung and the dissatisfied Samsung owners will switch to LG. For everyone they lose they gain a new one....I think there is collusion :@

I think you give them too much credit. Besides, this would mean they’re fine with their current marketshare, unless you think they’re so devious that they collude on the designs and somehow agree to compete on marketing. It’s possible, but I don’t think it’s likely. Much more likely is they try to reverse engineer what each other did to keep the price down and copy things they didn’t do yet.

graphicguy

Realizing how much I’ve become spoiled with niceties like a refrigerator. My son came over this a.m. to hang out before we go out for THanksgiving at 2.

We usually whip up a nice breakfast on weekends when he comes by....eggs, biscuits, sausage, etc. Well, no fridge....no breakfast. He was going to go to McDonalds to get us a McMuffin.....everything’s closed (as it should be).

I offered him some dry toast.

ab348

With massive outfits like Whirlpool, GE, Samsung, and LG it is all about taking cost out of the manufacturing process to help the bottom line. Really no different to what the bean counters did with the automobile companies here. Saving a few pennies on a few million units adds up. As we saw with vehicles though, that can go too far and you end up with unhappy customers. The problem with the appliance biz is that most consumers see any given type of item as essentially the same except for cosmetics, so they often end up taking what they think is the best deal when they buy. There really isn't any one manufacturer differentiating themselves on the basis of product quality the way Maytag used to in the '70s and '80s.

imidazol97

If you lived closer, I would have offered to bring the second size larger dorm size/office type fridge we bought. It was enough to survive for 5 days until the part came in. LOL Which didn't.

It's enough to hold 1/2 gallon milk in the door and eggs, etc..

graphicguy

@imidazol97 ....thanks so much. That’s incredibly nice. But, I’ll survive. Now if it was my coffee pot that went on the fritz.....totally different story.

I buy a dozen turkeys every year to donate to a local food bank every Thanksgiving. I went to pick the Turkeys up last night. They all fit in the TLX’s trunk. I could definitely tell there was about 200 lbs extra in the car.

Anyway, on the way to drop them off, I saw what I thought was a Stinger from the side, with the side vents. Got up to it, and found out it was an Infiniti Q60. Sharp coupe.

graphicguy

This will be made into a movie, for certain......

https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2018/11/20/carlos-ghosn-nissan-ceo-arrested-rise-and-fall-enjoji-vpx-pkg-newsstream.cnn

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

@imidazol97 ....thanks so much. That’s incredibly nice. But, I’ll survive. Now if it was my coffee pot that went on the fritz.....totally different story.

I buy a dozen turkeys every year to donate to a local food bank every Thanksgiving. I went to pick the Turkeys up last night. They all fit in the TLX’s trunk. I could definitely tell there was about 200 lbs extra in the car.

Anyway, on the way to drop them off, I saw what I thought was a Stinger from the side, with the side vents. Got up to it, and found out it was an Infiniti Q60. Sharp coupe.

Look up a picture of the interior on that baby. After driving nothing but black plastic for a month the light colored interior was a breath of fresh air.

driver100

dino001 said:

driver100 said:

The appliance makers don't care if you switch brands when your new LG fridge bites the dust after 5 years. You may switch to a Samsung and the dissatisfied Samsung owners will switch to LG. For everyone they lose they gain a new one....I think there is collusion :@

I think you give them too much credit. Besides, this would mean they’re fine with their current marketshare, unless you think they’re so devious that they collude on the designs and somehow agree to compete on marketing. It’s possible, but I don’t think it’s likely. Much more likely is they try to reverse engineer what each other did to keep the price down and copy things they didn’t do yet.

I was joking a bit about gaining as many customers as they lose, but I seriously think they could be thinking: 90% of their fridges will last close to 10 years with no problems, and for the 10% that do have major issues.....why bother to fix them? That will look bad on the bottom line for this quarter, so let them suffer, at least the bosses can keep their jobs for another quarter.

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

snakeweasel said:

abacomike said:t

Due to a lack of decent TV programming tonight, I started watching “Last Man Standing” reruns - 7 shows tonight alone.  Never watched it before but quite humorous - Tim Allen and Hector Elizalde.  I think I have found yet another opportunity for binge-watching! 

That show was canned by the original network and Fox picked it up a year or two later. I do believe all the actors except one who played one of the daughters are still playing their original parts. One of our streaming services now has "Green Acres" and I must say we watched a couple of hours of it last night, my wife never saw it before and she rather enjoys it (so do I).

That used to be one of my favorites - typical hayseed and slapstick rolled into one situation comedy.  Eddie Albert was an excellent drama actor and Eva Gabor the epitome of what used to be called a “dumb blond” which was all a put-on.  I believe it was a spin-off from Pettycoat Junction, IIRC.

Eddie Alber was the perfect straight man for that show. As for being a spin-off of Pettycoat Junction I don't think it qualifies as one. Spin-offs usually star characters from the show it was spun off from, the Douglas' weren't in Pettycoat Junction. While Green Acres was set in the same town and had shared supporting characters it really wasn't a spin-off. 

snakeweasel

abacomike said:
Dino, playing devil’s advocate for a few moments, if the government doesn’t force reduced consumption of fossil fuels, increased utilization of renewable energy or higher efficiency appliances, who will?  The manufacturers?  The consumers?  Of course not.

I am not a believer in government dictating to me what I want, but someone or something has to take the lead in doing what it can to make our environment livable/sustainable.  The private sector had its chance - now we need to do something else to curb our appetites for carbon based fuels.  At least until we can get a grip on this dilemma.

Actally once it's it economically feasible the market will dictate it. Once high efficiency is actually cheaper (less overall costs) people will start to adopt it. People would buy 50 MPG cars if they weren't underpowered tin cans on wheels. 

suydam

Actually, no.

henryn

snakeweasel said:

Eddie Alber was the perfect straight man for that show. As for being a spin-off of Pettycoat Junction I don't think it qualifies as one. Spin-offs usually star characters from the show it was spun off from, the Douglas' weren't in Pettycoat Junction. While Green Acres was set in the same town and had shared supporting characters it really wasn't a spin-off. 

I would call it a spin-off, but that's really just a matter of semantics. What exactly does "spin-off" mean?

snakeweasel said:

Actally once it's it economically feasible the market will dictate it. Once high efficiency is actually cheaper (less overall costs) people will start to adopt it. People would buy 50 MPG cars if they weren't underpowered tin cans on wheels. 

On this I agree. Not everyone, of course, but a great many people would buy. Heck, if I had the incentives here in Texas that they were offering in Colorado, I would have bought an electric car for my commute vehicle several years ago.

[Deleted User]

Happy Thanksgiving!

I've popped in every so often to make sure our Edmunds friends are doing well, but job and family responsibilities have kept me preoccupied with other responsibilities to prevent regular posting.

As a quick update, we still own the Audi A4 and Subaru Outback, though that will change soon. A year ago we investigated replacing the Outback with a larger 3-row SUV (modern mommy mobile replacement for minivans and wagons), but in the end I didn't find anything that really interested me and we've chosen to hold onto the Outback. My daughter will soon be eligible for her learner's permit, so I've started teaching her how to drive a manual transmission in our A4. We're just practicing in private parking lots without anyone around, and keeping it limited to 1-3 and Reverse. So far so good. That girl makes me proud in so many ways.

For years we've talked about going electric with one of our vehicles, and with the rebates set to start pulling back soon, we decided this was the year. For the last 2 months we've been trying to buy a 2019 Volt. We also looked at the Honda Clarity and its gorgeous interior was tempting. The interior seriously outclasses the Volt in every way, but driving dynamics and how it uses electric propulsion are far, far behind the Volt's. The Volt is a true electric for 50 miles and doesn't rely on its internal combustion engine (ICE) for any type of power while operating on electric. The Honda on the other hand requires the noisy and annoying ICE to kick in for full power, and when the batteries drain, uphill acceleration is seriously limited. So, the Volt became our preferred choice.

I've heard that Chevy dealers are not really interested in selling these cars and now I believe those rumors. I contacted 7 dealers, several of which just ignored me. Two of them told me they had stock and to check them out. When I arrived at each of the dealerships intending to buy, driving up to 45 minutes to reach them, the car suddenly wasn't available, but they told me they'd be happy to sell me something else....eye roll. Another dealer confirmed they had the Volt on the lot and we drove down to buy it only to learn the lot tech smashed one of the doors and it would require replacement. Ugh. Only 1 dealer truly and aggressively tried to help us, but even they disappointed me when they sold it the night before we were set to buy it in the AM without giving us any notification or warning. We only found out when I called them after starting our 30-minute drive to meet them.

That last experience is what convinced us to abandon our Chevy purchase. It would have been our first GM product.

So, we chose a different direction. I'll get to that in another post today.

dino001

snakeweasel said:

Actally once it's it economically feasible the market will dictate it. Once high efficiency is actually cheaper (less overall costs) people will start to adopt it. People would buy 50 MPG cars if they weren't underpowered tin cans on wheels. 

One way government can encourage energy efficiency much more effectively than artificial limits, is through energy taxation, but that is politically much harder, as it requires the officials to actually stand up and face the public saying openly they want them to pay more fo stuff for the greater good. Who’d do that if they want to be reelected? Pushing artificial energy efficiency goals, devoided from reality, like last administration’s 50+ mpg in just few years time (I believe it was abolished, Thank God), is their way to wash their hands from actual responsibility and push the blame on evil corporations when the “new and improved” machines end up inferior to the old ones, because the standards ended up strangling their performance or durability. Again, the balance. I recall coming to the US over twenty years ago and laughing my butt off when I saw the washing machines - terrible energy hog top loaders that were hard on fabric. Why was that? The energy and clothing are/were so cheap here in comparison to Europe that it made zero economic sense to buy front loaders for twice the price.

suydam

Without the highway and road acts of the early 1920s, its hard to imagine how the auto industry would have spread as it did. Similarly with electric vehicles, without a national charging infrastructure it’s difficult to see how car sales can grow except incrementally as they are. You can see that where there is a better charging system, as in California, there are many more electric vehicles.
I am sorry to hear about your Volt experiences, @tyguy. The Volt was my second GM purchase ever, and I just love it. Hardly an “underpowered tin can” — it’s a great driving experience. When I took it in for service a few weeks ago, I did notice that the row of former Volts had been replaced by Bolts. Odd because the Volt fills a niche for those of us who don’t yet quite want to go all electric.

graphicguy

@tyguy ...glad you stopped to check in.

Not sure, maybe it’s a CO thing. But, I was flirting with buying a Volt a couple of years ago. Found plenty of VOLTS, and the Chevy dealers were willing to deal on them.

When I test drove them a couple of times, I was impressed. Although, I agree that they do use a lot of cheap parts on them.

ab348

snakeweasel said:

Actally once it's it economically feasible the market will dictate it. Once high efficiency is actually cheaper (less overall costs) people will start to adopt it. People would buy 50 MPG cars if they weren't underpowered tin cans on wheels. 

I'm not so sure. Right now you can buy very nice sedans that get 30-40mpg routinely and in no way would be classified as tin cans or underpowered. But the biggest sellers are large pickups and SUVs that get half that mileage. I think it requires a large cultural change, along with incentives/penalties in the pocketbook.

dino001

The reason is that overall price plus fuel is very attractive on large vehicles, with their utility, the buyers act rationally. Make gas price like it is in the UK ($6/gal or so) and you’ll see priorities shift rapidly. I’m not advocating for that, just stating the fact that fuel is too cheap to give up the size and utility, especially that even those vehicles are much better than they used to be.

Mr_Shiftright

suydam said:

Actually, no.

Agree. The"market" is not benevolent, nor rational.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

suydam said:

Actually, no.

Agree. The"market" is not benevolent, nor rational.

It is for me. Gas at $2.19 a gallon, I love driving my gassers, too old to switch, like the availability of gas, not sure electric of hybrid really do save money or resources...........

oldfarmer50

tyguy said:

Happy Thanksgiving!

I've popped in every so often to make sure our Edmunds friends are doing well, but job and family responsibilities have kept me preoccupied with other responsibilities to prevent regular posting.

As a quick update, we still own the Audi A4 and Subaru Outback, though that will change soon. A year ago we investigated replacing the Outback with a larger 3-row SUV (modern mommy mobile replacement for minivans and wagons), but in the end I didn't find anything that really interested me and we've chosen to hold onto the Outback. My daughter will soon be eligible for her learner's permit, so I've started teaching her how to drive a manual transmission in our A4. We're just practicing in private parking lots without anyone around, and keeping it limited to 1-3 and Reverse. So far so good. That girl makes me proud in so many ways.

For years we've talked about going electric with one of our vehicles, and with the rebates set to start pulling back soon, we decided this was the year. For the last 2 months we've been trying to buy a 2019 Volt. We also looked at the Honda Clarity and its gorgeous interior was tempting. The interior seriously outclasses the Volt in every way, but driving dynamics and how it uses electric propulsion are far, far behind the Volt's. The Volt is a true electric for 50 miles and doesn't rely on its internal combustion engine (ICE) for any type of power while operating on electric. The Honda on the other hand requires the noisy and annoying ICE to kick in for full power, and when the batteries drain, uphill acceleration is seriously limited. So, the Volt became our preferred choice.

I've heard that Chevy dealers are not really interested in selling these cars and now I believe those rumors. I contacted 7 dealers, several of which just ignored me. Two of them told me they had stock and to check them out. When I arrived at each of the dealerships intending to buy, driving up to 45 minutes to reach them, the car suddenly wasn't available, but they told me they'd be happy to sell me something else....eye roll. Another dealer confirmed they had the Volt on the lot and we drove down to buy it only to learn the lot tech smashed one of the doors and it would require replacement. Ugh. Only 1 dealer truly and aggressively tried to help us, but even they disappointed me when they sold it the night before we were set to buy it in the AM without giving us any notification or warning. We only found out when I called them after starting our 30-minute drive to meet them.

That last experience is what convinced us to abandon our Chevy purchase. It would have been our first GM product.

So, we chose a different direction. I'll get to that in another post today.

I wonder why the indifferent, almost hostile attitude. Do they lose money on them? Are they prone to expensive repairs under warranty?

As for making you drive 45 minutes only to try to bait and switch you I wonder if they want to sell any cars at all.

Drivingfool

We usually go out. Meeting our pharmacist daughter, she had to work today, later this afternoon halfway between us and Kendall it seems. The oldest has her yearly plans with her 2nd family. Trying to keep a smile on my face but it's a bit harder at certain times. No drama is my main concern. First Friday after turkey day that I'm not working since 2013. When working for the government, always seemed to have to work that day...always. Am happy to be off this year even though I'll be at Pep Boys at 8 am. Just fix the issue and let me be on my way. Meeting someone to check out a new office light. A tall unit with 5 lamps in it as I want/need maximum light in that room I took over as my office. Like light on my desk so I can see everything and it's on "OfferUp" for a dynamite price. The times I've purchased from that app, have had great luck actually, decent products with no [non-permissible content removed]. Got my latest iPhone 8 Plus brand new a few months back plus a few cases for it and some lightning cords at crazy prices. Can never have enough cell phone cords, cases or chargers actually as the power is always going down on them...ALWAYS!!

The Sandman/Driving Fool

oldfarmer50

dino001 said:

snakeweasel said:

Actally once it's it economically feasible the market will dictate it. Once high efficiency is actually cheaper (less overall costs) people will start to adopt it. People would buy 50 MPG cars if they weren't underpowered tin cans on wheels. 

One way government can encourage energy efficiency much more effectively than artificial limits, is through energy taxation, but that is politically much harder, as it requires the officials to actually stand up and face the public saying openly they want them to pay more fo stuff for the greater good. Who’d do that if they want to be reelected? Pushing artificial energy efficiency goals, devoided from reality, like last administration’s 50+ mpg in just few years time (I believe it was abolished, Thank God), is their way to wash their hands from actual responsibility and push the blame on evil corporations when the “new and improved” machines end up inferior to the old ones, because the standards ended up strangling their performance or durability. Again, the balance. I recall coming to the US over twenty years ago and laughing my butt off when I saw the washing machines - terrible energy hog top loaders that were hard on fabric. Why was that? The energy and clothing are/were so cheap here in comparison to Europe that it made zero economic sense to buy front loaders for twice the price.

Top loaders damage clothes? Hmmmm. I’ve got shirts 20 years old that still look ok.

Must be the L.L.Bean quality.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

suydam said:

Actually, no.

Agree. The"market" is not benevolent, nor rational.

It is for me. Gas at $2.19 a gallon, I love driving my gassers, too old to switch, like the availability of gas, not sure electric of hybrid really do save money or resources...........

Gas at $4.30 in 2008 didn’t stop me from buying the v6 over the 4cyl. Having said that I’m glad gas is down to $2.50 when I’m driving the V8.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

snakeweasel said:

Actally once it's it economically feasible the market will dictate it. Once high efficiency is actually cheaper (less overall costs) people will start to adopt it. People would buy 50 MPG cars if they weren't underpowered tin cans on wheels. 

One way government can encourage energy efficiency much more effectively than artificial limits, is through energy taxation, but that is politically much harder, as it requires the officials to actually stand up and face the public saying openly they want them to pay more fo stuff for the greater good. Who’d do that if they want to be reelected? Pushing artificial energy efficiency goals, devoided from reality, like last administration’s 50+ mpg in just few years time (I believe it was abolished, Thank God), is their way to wash their hands from actual responsibility and push the blame on evil corporations when the “new and improved” machines end up inferior to the old ones, because the standards ended up strangling their performance or durability. Again, the balance. I recall coming to the US over twenty years ago and laughing my butt off when I saw the washing machines - terrible energy hog top loaders that were hard on fabric. Why was that? The energy and clothing are/were so cheap here in comparison to Europe that it made zero economic sense to buy front loaders for twice the price.

Top loaders damage clothes? Hmmmm. I’ve got shirts 20 years old that still look ok.

Must be the L.L.Bean quality.

Mrs D likes top loaders because you can stop them and add more clothes, but an even bigger factor is you don't have to bend over to put clothes in or take out.
I think the main reason for front loaders is they use less water. Which is more important, conserve a few pennies on energy or save your back?

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

suydam said:

Actually, no.

Agree. The"market" is not benevolent, nor rational.

It is for me. Gas at $2.19 a gallon, I love driving my gassers, too old to switch, like the availability of gas, not sure electric of hybrid really do save money or resources...........

Gas at $4.30 in 2008 didn’t stop me from buying the v6 over the 4cyl. Having said that I’m glad gas is down to $2.50 when I’m driving the V8.

An electric powered Mustang just wouldn't be the same!

Drivingfool

My kid has Amana in her new house. Noticed when we got back last night how much cooler hers is. Hell, our's is 32, 31 for the compressor so yes, it's passed it's prime but not ready to replace it yet. Soon I expect though but not going to be pro-active on this yet. Usually, I would've swapped it out already but now, let it frickin' die already!! Then I will look at a replacement as my wallet's closed right now.
If I'm no longer here tomorrow, just means someone treated me for turkey dinner tonight. But that ain't gonna happen, can bet on that!!

The Sandman/Driving Fool

dino001

oldfarmer50 said:

Top loaders damage clothes? Hmmmm. I’ve got shirts 20 years old that still look ok.
Must be the L.L.Bean quality.

Perhaps. The reason is the agitator action, one jerks clothes back and forth, while front load tumbles them. I remember the clothes getting wrapped up around the agitator so tight, I had to pry them off after the cycle, that certainly can’t be good for them. These were commercial washers at my university housing complex, so perhaps home washers are better, I don’t know. Water usage is another thing. BTW, there are front loaders now with special trap doors allowing you add clothes during the wash. Not cheap, though and quite oossubly our forum’s new favorite brand.

Mr_Shiftright

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

suydam said:

Actually, no.

Agree. The"market" is not benevolent, nor rational.

It is for me. Gas at $2.19 a gallon, I love driving my gassers, too old to switch, like the availability of gas, not sure electric of hybrid really do save money or resources...........

Gas prices in the USA are artificial. Gas is not rationally priced at all. It is a subsidized commodity. It should probably cost about $5-7 a gallon I would guess.

dino001

oldfarmer50 said:

I wonder why the indifferent, almost hostile attitude. Do they lose money on them? Are they prone to expensive repairs under warranty?

As for making you drive 45 minutes only to try to bait and switch you I wonder if they want to sell any cars at all.

If they were prone to failures, dealers should live them. I suspect slim profit margins, perhaps “wrong” customer profile that doesn’t fit rest of the brand buyers, making the process awkward for all involved. Who knows.

driver100

Why Some Dealers Are Inept At Selling Plug-In Electric Cars

Hundreds of cases have been reported of customers walking into a Nissan or Chevy dealer to buy a Leaf or Volt, then being aggressively steered toward a Sentra or Cruze.

A buyer will run out of charge and be left stranded at the side of the road, he hears, or that very expensive battery will have to be replaced in five years.

Then the electric demo car hasn't been recharged, so its electric range is minimal on the test drive. And so forth.

The salient point is that it takes much longer to sell a plug-in electric car, today, than it does a gasoline or diesel vehicle.

Maximizing profit

And dealers maximize their profits by exploiting the difference in information about complex financial transactions between buyers who do it once every five or six years, on average, and salespeople who sell multiple cars a day.
Every salesperson's mission is to close the deal, today, at maximum profit with minimum time invested. Selling a plug-in car takes three to five times as long for a dealer as does selling a gasoline car.

It requires explanation, education, training, all of the fuss and bother associated with installing a charging station in the garage if the buyer wants one, and so on.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't think the salespeople know the product very well, nor do they necessarily believe in the product.

[Deleted User]

Appreciate the welcome back. Yeah, I don't understand the dealer attitudes we encountered with the Volt. The first dealer we worked with was one Costco connected us to under their sales program early in our search. I setup an appointment, met with him, told him exactly what I wanted, and then never heard back. We had plans to order from the factory, but timing was tight due to the holidays, and with no return call from the dealer we missed the window.

Saturday was our appointment time to purchase the Volt which was sold the night before. My wife and I were in the car heading over to the dealership when we heard the news, and that's when I turned to my wife and said, "I'm done. Let's buy a Tesla." We've been talking about wanting one for years, and I'm ready to spend the money." She smiled and without hesitation agreed. I didn't think it was possible to love someone more than I do her, but I think my love for her grew just a bit more in that instant.

So, rather than drive to Chevy, we drove to the Tesla showroom.

Tesla represents one of the more unique ways to purchase a vehicle without a dealership network. We parked in a mall, walked inside to a showroom the size of a typical Apple store, and spent 90 minutes quizzing one of the non-commission sales associates on how every little thing worked in a Model 3 they were displaying. The place was packed, but we setup an appointment on our drive down and had the dedicated attention of the sales rep. He was patient, knowledgeable, and enthusiastic. I felt like I was buying an iMac.

After 90 minutes I was sold. I wanted the car and I knew I didn't have to haggle given Tesla's sales model. The biggest trick has been getting one delivered, but Tesla is promising a December delivery if a mid range 3 is ordered by November 30, and that's what we planned to do. I knew long range models were also manufactured so I asked about those, and he confirmed what I thought, which is that Tesla is committed to the mid range to fill all the expected orders.

After a few minutes the sales associate had a visible "light bulb" moment and told me to hang on a second. We jumped out of the demo M3 on the floor and walked over to his laptop, and after a minute he looked up and said there were 2 Model 3 long range versions built in just the configuration we wanted, and sitting in California.

We didn't expect to order a Tesla that night, but my wife and I looked at each other and after more than 20 years of marriage, we each knew what the other was thinking. "Let's do it."

The sales rep sent a link to my email while we were standing there together, and seconds later my phone binged indicating that it had arrived. I clicked on the link in the email, entered my credit card info for the deposit, and one of those cars was suddenly ours.

I knew Tesla has struggled with deliver capacity constraints, so I asked if it would be less than a month to get in. The sales rep said, "Nah, we'll get it on a truck in a couple of days." Well, okay then.

My wife and I walked away from the showroom beaming and hardly believing we just bought a Tesla after years of talking about it. Later that night I received an email from Tesla to login into my new account and finish all the purchase paperwork including licensing and registration info, and such. That took 10 minutes max.

Monday rolls around and I'm expecting something to go wrong. It's just too easy and the press keeps hammering Tesla that they can't deliver product. What's going to go wrong? About 2 PM I get an email from Tesla and I think, "Oh, here we go, what's gone wrong?"

The email was confirmation that my new Tesla had arrived in Denver and they wanted to schedule the delivery. WHAT??? I just ordered it Saturday and on Monday it was already at the delivery facility. Seriously, what are all these delivery news articles about? At least in my situation, Tesla exceeded every expectation.

We've scheduled the official delivery for Monday. Can't wait.

roadburner

Mr_Shiftright said:

I don't think the salespeople know the product very well, nor do they necessarily believe in the product.

Exactly; there were three of us at BMW that handled electric or hybrid customers. These customers generally were very familiar with the cars and wanted to talk to people who knew the product.

suydam

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

snakeweasel said:

Actally once it's it economically feasible the market will dictate it. Once high efficiency is actually cheaper (less overall costs) people will start to adopt it. People would buy 50 MPG cars if they weren't underpowered tin cans on wheels. 

One way government can encourage energy efficiency much more effectively than artificial limits, is through energy taxation, but that is politically much harder, as it requires the officials to actually stand up and face the public saying openly they want them to pay more fo stuff for the greater good. Who’d do that if they want to be reelected? Pushing artificial energy efficiency goals, devoided from reality, like last administration’s 50+ mpg in just few years time (I believe it was abolished, Thank God), is their way to wash their hands from actual responsibility and push the blame on evil corporations when the “new and improved” machines end up inferior to the old ones, because the standards ended up strangling their performance or durability. Again, the balance. I recall coming to the US over twenty years ago and laughing my butt off when I saw the washing machines - terrible energy hog top loaders that were hard on fabric. Why was that? The energy and clothing are/were so cheap here in comparison to Europe that it made zero economic sense to buy front loaders for twice the price.

Top loaders damage clothes? Hmmmm. I’ve got shirts 20 years old that still look ok.

Must be the L.L.Bean quality.

There are plenty of water and energy efficient top loaders too. Here in water deficient California we have one. They don’t use agitators. Our water bill is our highest utility bill.

Michaell

tyguy said:

Appreciate the welcome back. Yeah, I don't understand the dealer attitudes we encountered with the Volt. The first dealer we worked with was one Costco connected us to under their sales program early in our search. I setup an appointment, met with him, told him exactly what I wanted, and then never heard back. We had plans to order from the factory, but timing was tight due to the holidays, and with no return call from the dealer we missed the window.

Saturday was our appointment time to purchase the Volt which was sold the night before. My wife and I were in the car heading over to the dealership when we heard the news, and that's when I turned to my wife and said, "I'm done. Let's buy a Tesla." We've been talking about wanting one for years, and I'm ready to spend the money." She smiled and without hesitation agreed. I didn't think it was possible to love someone more than I do her, but I think my love for her grew just a bit more in that instant.

So, rather than drive to Chevy, we drove to the Tesla showroom.

Tesla represents one of the more unique ways to purchase a vehicle without a dealership network. We parked in a mall, walked inside to a showroom the size of a typical Apple store, and spent 90 minutes quizzing one of the non-commission sales associates on how every little thing worked in a Model 3 they were displaying. The place was packed, but we setup an appointment on our drive down and had the dedicated attention of the sales rep. He was patient, knowledgeable, and enthusiastic. I felt like I was buying an iMac.

After 90 minutes I was sold. I wanted the car and I knew I didn't have to haggle given Tesla's sales model. The biggest trick has been getting one delivered, but Tesla is promising a December delivery if a mid range 3 is ordered by November 30, and that's what we planned to do. I knew long range models were also manufactured so I asked about those, and he confirmed what I thought, which is that Tesla is committed to the mid range to fill all the expected orders.

After a few minutes the sales associate had a visible "light bulb" moment and told me to hang on a second. We jumped out of the demo M3 on the floor and walked over to his laptop, and after a minute he looked up and said there were 2 Model 3 long range versions built in just the configuration we wanted, and sitting in California.

We didn't expect to order a Tesla that night, but my wife and I looked at each other and after more than 20 years of marriage, we each knew what the other was thinking. "Let's do it."

The sales rep sent a link to my email while we were standing there together, and seconds later my phone binged indicating that it had arrived. I clicked on the link in the email, entered my credit card info for the deposit, and one of those cars was suddenly ours.

I knew Tesla has struggled with deliver capacity constraints, so I asked if it would be less than a month to get in. The sales rep said, "Nah, we'll get it on a truck in a couple of days." Well, okay then.

My wife and I walked away from the showroom beaming and hardly believing we just bought a Tesla after years of talking about it. Later that night I received an email from Tesla to login into my new account and finish all the purchase paperwork including licensing and registration info, and such. That took 10 minutes max.

Monday rolls around and I'm expecting something to go wrong. It's just too easy and the press keeps hammering Tesla that they can't deliver product. What's going to go wrong? About 2 PM I get an email from Tesla and I think, "Oh, here we go, what's gone wrong?"

The email was confirmation that my new Tesla had arrived in Denver and they wanted to schedule the delivery. WHAT??? I just ordered it Saturday and on Monday it was already at the delivery facility. Seriously, what are all these delivery news articles about? At least in my situation, Tesla exceeded every expectation.

We've scheduled the official delivery for Monday. Can't wait.

Congrats on the new Tesla! Which mall did you visit?

There are a few of us regulars on Edmunds here in CO who get together in person on a regular basis; would love to add you to the group, if you can find the time. PM me if you're interested.

graphicguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

suydam said:

Actually, no.

Agree. The"market" is not benevolent, nor rational.

It is for me. Gas at $2.19 a gallon, I love driving my gassers, too old to switch, like the availability of gas, not sure electric of hybrid really do save money or resources...........

Gas prices in the USA are artificial. Gas is not rationally priced at all. It is a subsidized commodity. It should probably cost about $5-7 a gallon I would guess.

I dunno Shifty. When oil prices dropped to $30-$40 bbl, the oil companies whined and cried. They were all still profitable, though! I think prices are being artificially supported higher than what they should be based on commodity trading.

dino001

graphicguy said:

I dunno Shifty. When oil prices dropped to $30-$40 bbl, the oil companies whined and cried. They were all still profitable, though! I think prices are being artificially supported higher than what they should be based on commodity trading.

You mean bankruptcies of several multibillion dollar companies from shale were imaginary?

Mr_Shiftright

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

suydam said:

Actually, no.

Agree. The"market" is not benevolent, nor rational.

It is for me. Gas at $2.19 a gallon, I love driving my gassers, too old to switch, like the availability of gas, not sure electric of hybrid really do save money or resources...........

Gas prices in the USA are artificial. Gas is not rationally priced at all. It is a subsidized commodity. It should probably cost about $5-7 a gallon I would guess.


There are many social and environmental costs that Americans don’t pay for right at the pump. Nor does the oil industry. While these costs are hidden, the cost to society is high. We pay for them later or in other forms of taxation.

I dunno Shifty. When oil prices dropped to $30-$40 bbl, the oil companies whined and cried. They were all still profitable, though! I think prices are being artificially supported higher than what they should be based on commodity trading.

abacomike

tyguy said:

Appreciate the welcome back. Yeah, I don't understand the dealer attitudes we encountered with the Volt. The first dealer we worked with was one Costco connected us to under their sales program early in our search. I setup an appointment, met with him, told him exactly what I wanted, and then never heard back. We had plans to order from the factory, but timing was tight due to the holidays, and with no return call from the dealer we missed the window. Saturday was our appointment time to purchase the Volt which was sold the night before. My wife and I were in the car heading over to the dealership when we heard the news, and that's when I turned to my wife and said, "I'm done. Let's buy a Tesla." We've been talking about wanting one for years, and I'm ready to spend the money." She smiled and without hesitation agreed. I didn't think it was possible to love someone more than I do her, but I think my love for her grew just a bit more in that instant. So, rather than drive to Chevy, we drove to the Tesla showroom. Tesla represents one of the more unique ways to purchase a vehicle without a dealership network. We parked in a mall, walked inside to a showroom the size of a typical Apple store, and spent 90 minutes quizzing one of the non-commission sales associates on how every little thing worked in a Model 3 they were displaying. The place was packed, but we setup an appointment on our drive down and had the dedicated attention of the sales rep. He was patient, knowledgeable, and enthusiastic. I felt like I was buying an iMac. After 90 minutes I was sold. I wanted the car and I knew I didn't have to haggle given Tesla's sales model. The biggest trick has been getting one delivered, but Tesla is promising a December delivery if a mid range 3 is ordered by November 30, and that's what we planned to do. I knew long range models were also manufactured so I asked about those, and he confirmed what I thought, which is that Tesla is committed to the mid range to fill all the expected orders. After a few minutes the sales associate had a visible "light bulb" moment and told me to hang on a second. We jumped out of the demo M3 on the floor and walked over to his laptop, and after a minute he looked up and said there were 2 Model 3 long range versions built in just the configuration we wanted, and sitting in California. We didn't expect to order a Tesla that night, but my wife and I looked at each other and after more than 20 years of marriage, we each knew what the other was thinking. "Let's do it." The sales rep sent a link to my email while we were standing there together, and seconds later my phone binged indicating that it had arrived. I clicked on the link in the email, entered my credit card info for the deposit, and one of those cars was suddenly ours. I knew Tesla has struggled with deliver capacity constraints, so I asked if it would be less than a month to get in. The sales rep said, "Nah, we'll get it on a truck in a couple of days." Well, okay then. My wife and I walked away from the showroom beaming and hardly believing we just bought a Tesla after years of talking about it. Later that night I received an email from Tesla to login into my new account and finish all the purchase paperwork including licensing and registration info, and such. That took 10 minutes max. Monday rolls around and I'm expecting something to go wrong. It's just too easy and the press keeps hammering Tesla that they can't deliver product. What's going to go wrong? About 2 PM I get an email from Tesla and I think, "Oh, here we go, what's gone wrong?" The email was confirmation that my new Tesla had arrived in Denver and they wanted to schedule the delivery. WHAT??? I just ordered it Saturday and on Monday it was already at the delivery facility. Seriously, what are all these delivery news articles about? At least in my situation, Tesla exceeded every expectation. We've scheduled the official delivery for Monday. Can't wait.

Hey, tyguy - long time no see.  Give my regards to your wife and kids.  Hang around a while this time.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

suydam said:

Actually, no.

Agree. The"market" is not benevolent, nor rational.

It is for me. Gas at $2.19 a gallon, I love driving my gassers, too old to switch, like the availability of gas, not sure electric of hybrid really do save money or resources...........

Gas at $4.30 in 2008 didn’t stop me from buying the v6 over the 4cyl. Having said that I’m glad gas is down to $2.50 when I’m driving the V8.

An electric powered Mustang just wouldn't be the same!

I agree but I saw a Tesla S take off from a stop once and I doubt my Mustang could have caught it in the 1/4 mile.

henryn

suydam said:

There are plenty of water and energy efficient top loaders too. Here in water deficient California we have one. They don’t use agitators. Our water bill is our highest utility bill.

I appreciate that California is running out of water (or should that be past tense, "Has run out"?)

But that doesn't affect me, where I live, and I do not want or need a washing machine that minimizes water usage with the drawback of taking 2 or 3 times as long to wash a load of clothes.

Just as I appreciate that folks living up north have to shovel snow -- I feel for you, but it doesn't affect me, I'm not rushing out to buy a snowblower.

oldfarmer50

My niece just told me she bought a 2015 Honda CR-V with 70,000 miles. Surprised at such a sensible car for a 22 yo kid. Parents had to co-sign but she got gap insurance to protect them. It’s funny, I had all sorts of plans to shuffle ownership of one of my cars to my son and rotate his car to the niece but she went and got a much better vehicle than I could ever give her.

On the other side my nephew with the 2017 Civic defaulted on the loan and gave the car back to the bank. He’s still on the hook for a whole bunch of negative equity. I wish I could have bought it off him but as someone pointed out why would anyone pay more than it’s worth. Hope he learns his lesson.

suydam

Sometimes young men are late bloomers when in terms of responsibility issues.

berri

Unfortunately, the nephew may be a result of the lack of business and economics in many high school requirements. The kid probably didn't understand depreciation or how compounded interest can spiral the total purchase cost with most of the early payments going primarily to interest instead of principal. Sadly, that school of hard knocks lesson is going to impact him for more than a few years.

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

I agree but I saw a Tesla S take off from a stop once and I doubt my Mustang could have caught it in the 1/4 mile.

Just for laughs, here's an excerpt from the article I wrote when I covered the international launch of the F16 X6 back in 2014- when I was driving an X6 motivated by a 445-hp 4.4-liter twin turbo V-8...

All of which brings me to the Tesla Incident. The test route had become quite entertaining, a sinuous uphill two lane which reminded me a little bit of the Tail of the Dragon, only without the occasional pile of sportbike fairing debris. I had come upon a Ford Escape driving at a glacial pace, but there was no safe place to pass. I was fervently wishing my X6 was equipped with the BMW Dynamic Slow Poke Disintegrator when I noticed some bright LED running lights closing from behind. Fast. It was a Tesla Model S, and its driver was also eager to get going. About a mile later an uphill passing lane appeared; I switched the X6 into Sport+ and hammered it. As did the Tesla; I would be truly surprised if there were any doors or paint left on the hapless Escape after we both passed it. We remained evenly matched until the next corner, when the Tesla fell back. The next short straight saw him catching up, but at a somewhat slower rate. And so it went for the next several miles, until the Tesla was left waaay behind. I don’t know if the circuitous uphill slog depleted the Tesla’s batteries, overheated its power controller, or caused its driver to stop for some Depends. Regardless, I never saw it again.
Final Score:
Carbon Footprint- 1
Electron Man- 0

ab348

snakeweasel said:

>
Eddie Alber was the perfect straight man for that show. As for being a spin-off of Pettycoat Junction I don't think it qualifies as one. Spin-offs usually star characters from the show it was spun off from, the Douglas' weren't in Pettycoat Junction. While Green Acres was set in the same town and had shared supporting characters it really wasn't a spin-off. 

Well, this picture might make you think differently.