Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

Happy New Year to All,.
We will do what we usually do....stay in, not go out where there are drunk drivers, try not to get shot - there are always people shooting guns off at midnight down here - they don't realize bullets do eventually come down.
We don't go out for an overpriced meal that is usually not very good as the restaurants are overbooked and the staff are not the regulars. If we go to a party we have to stay until midnight....what a long drawn out affair that is.
Whatever you do, Best Wishes for a Happy 2019
Driver101

oldfarmer50

murphydog said:

Taking my truck in for a recall on the tail gate - There is a part that can break and the tail gate will drop open. I just installed a dash cam that records while parked/off ( it has a voltage cut off so as to not drain the battery) and I am wondering if I should leave it on, or turn it off before drop off - any suggestions?

Leave it on in case the lot guy takes it out to haul bricks.

driver100

PF_Flyer said:

Happy New Year to all.

And just because it it's like a song that I HAVE to get out of my head... was this THE worst choice for a pace car at Indy? A Bravada?? REALLY?

Pretty lame pace car......much prefer this one.......or almost any other one!

The one time a Baretta actually looks kind of nice.

murphydog

I am going to leave it on, the microphone is off - no need to record my audio commentary on all the foolishness I see on the road. I will let you know what I see...

explorerx4

@muphydog,
Since they are just working on the tailgate, you should be able to just check the odometer when you drop it off and pick it up.

explorerx4

First Tesla I've seen on Craigslist. Does it look like it's parked at the gas pumps in one picture?
https://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/d/manchester-tesla-model-85d-awd/6766677215.html

Mr_Shiftright

We see used Teslas all the time here in the Bay Area, with some in the mid- $30K range now. Used EVs are hard to move off car lots I've noticed. I think that 2015 is a bit too high even though it seems like a very nice example. We have a 2015 right here in town for $46K, at a local dealer who sells generally high-end stuff.

driver100

explorerx4 said:

First Tesla I've seen on Craigslist. Does it look like it's parked at the gas pumps in one picture?
https://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/d/manchester-tesla-model-85d-awd/6766677215.html

Definitely gas pumps;

Probably ran into Wawa for a sandwich.

driver100

murphydog said:

I am going to leave it on, the microphone is off - no need to record my audio commentary on all the foolishness I see on the road. I will let you know what I see...

Today I was turning left at a intersection with a light. 2 lanes of traffic is constant going in opposite direction. Finally light changes to amber, I get ready to go but I see a large transport in the right lane and a Volvo picking up speed, about 50 yards from the light.....decide to wait, both go roaring through a red light to get through the intersection. Good thing I don't trust anyone's driving down here. I have to get a dash cam so I can show pictures of an average day on Florida roads.....people won't believe the things I see.

carnaught

(disclaimer, double posted)

A Happy Healthy, Safe and Prosperous New Year to all!

explorerx4

@Mr_Shifthright,
Tesla supply is much more constricted here in CT. That one looks pretty good. I might have even seen it a time or two.

ab348

Saw a new (to me) Geico commercial yesterday which actually made me laugh. Their ads were very clever a few years ago but I felt they had been in decline more recently. Their new one with massaging chairs at the dinner table is pretty good though.

stickguy

holy moly. that Tesla had an original MSRP of over $112,000? Ouch.

Mr_Shiftright

It costs money to be frugal in America!

[Deleted User]

Mr_Shiftright said:

It costs money to be frugal in America!

More like it costs money to buy luxury. BMW 7 series will depreciate similarly.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

First Tesla I've seen on Craigslist. Does it look like it's parked at the gas pumps in one picture?
https://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/d/manchester-tesla-model-85d-awd/6766677215.html

Having bought several cars on Craigslist for cash I have to wonder if you would show up with a big bag of hundreds or what?

stickguy

when I sold my Integra a few years ago, the guy who showed up first wanted it (should have asked more, based on how many calls I kept getting!) didn't bring enough cash, and I was not reducing the price, so he had to run over with his girlfriend to the wawa to find an ATM. Then we sat there and counted out piles of small bills on the trunk lid. But finally got to the magic number!

That was only around $3K. Not seeing that happening with something in the 20K range even.

driver100

Getting up early has it's advantages.
First Post of 2019!
Happy 2019 everybody.

imidazol97

And Happy New Year to the early bird and everyone.

abacomike

Wishing all of you and your families a very Healthy, Happy and Prosperous New Year!

stickguy

well, time to take advantage of the abnormally warm (pushing 60) temps to go get both cars washed. As a bonus, I will get a shower at the same time, thanks to the gusting winds!

explorerx4

I took the truck to get washed today, too. 2019 New Year's resolution done!

ab348

Wishing a great 2019 to all the great members of this board here, and also to @jmonroe .

driver100

ab348 said:

Wishing a great 2019 to all the great members of this board here, and also to @jmonroe .

Was that to the original jmonroe or jmonroe1?

henryn

Happy New Year!

Both of my vehicles need washing, we have had several straight days of overcast and drizzle here in the Houston area, and the truck and the minivan both show the results. Today is nice and sunshiny, 61 degrees right now headed for 63 this afternoon. It would be a nice day to wash cars, except ... it's supposed to rain again tomorrow, so I think I'll just wait.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

well, time to take advantage of the abnormally warm (pushing 60) temps to go get both cars washed. As a bonus, I will get a shower at the same time, thanks to the gusting winds!

Loving the warm weather (40s) so much that if I could be sure the piles of salt had been washed off by last night’s rain I’d take baby out for a spin. We have the same wind because driver100 is sending some of that Canadian cold down tonight.

We haven’t had much snow this winter so the highway crews are dumping incredible amounts after every flurry. Monday we had a dusting and there were literally mounds of salt at every intersection. No wonder cars go to hell in this environment.

Mr_Shiftright

tyguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

It costs money to be frugal in America!

More like it costs money to buy luxury. BMW 7 series will depreciate similarly.

True enough but I wouldn't put Tesla in the luxury class. More BMW 3/Infiniti /Acura competition. You're paying for the tech in a Tesla, not the "cush". So as tech ages (and boy, does it age in any EV), that gets tied to the depreciation levels. Similar say to the values of old iPhones.

snakeweasel

Happy New Years to all of you and yours.

I welcomed in the new year in style, enjoying the first dram of a single malt scotch while watching "Horse Feathers" on TV.

However after getting up this morning I moved the washer, dryer and the sink out of the laundry room an ripped up the old floor. Now all I need to do in install the new floor and return everything I took out. Should have everything done by late afternoon. Then off to the Legion Hall.

oldfarmer50

henryn said:

Happy New Year!

Both of my vehicles need washing, we have had several straight days of overcast and drizzle here in the Houston area, and the truck and the minivan both show the results. Today is nice and sunshiny, 61 degrees right now headed for 63 this afternoon. It would be a nice day to wash cars, except ... it's supposed to rain again tomorrow, so I think I'll just wait.

So what’s your main problem with dirty cars in Texas? Is it mud after a rain, dust, tumbleweed scratches...what? My employee lot at work isn’t paved so after a day there my car is covered in dust.

Mr_Shiftright

snakeweasel said:

Happy New Years to all of you and yours.

I welcomed in the new year in style, enjoying the first dram of a single malt scotch while watching "Horse Feathers" on TV.

However after getting up this morning I moved the washer, dryer and the sink out of the laundry room an ripped up the old floor. Now all I need to do in install the new floor and return everything I took out. Should have everything done by late afternoon. Then off to the Legion Hall.

You'd better slow down. There are 364 days to go, so pace yourself--!

[Deleted User]

Mr_Shiftright said:

tyguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

It costs money to be frugal in America!

More like it costs money to buy luxury. BMW 7 series will depreciate similarly.

True enough but I wouldn't put Tesla in the luxury class. More BMW 3/Infiniti /Acura competition. You're paying for the tech in a Tesla, not the "cush". So as tech ages (and boy, does it age in any EV), that gets tied to the depreciation levels. Similar say to the values of old iPhones.

Matter of opinion, I suppose, but many journalists will disagree with you. Most comparisons of the Model S shown in that ad compare it to the luxury large car market. Luxury to you is obviously different than luxury to me.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/22/tesla-model-s-crushes-luxury-car-competition-in-usa/

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/12/tesla-model-s-tesla-model-x-hold-their-value-better-than-gasmobile-competitors/

stickguy

well, both cars are washed, and I cleaned the inside windows in the TLX (I think some new car gasses after it sat closed up for a week). Then put the stuff back in (and EZ pass up on the windshield), and tidied up the garage and consolidated all the garbage and recycles from the last 2 weeks (missed last week being away) since pick up is tomorrow. Started pulling the Christmas lights down outside.

then I will watch some of the Citrus bowl.

yes I lead a truly exciting existence.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm more inclined to agree with Doug DeMuro:

"Here's the basis for the claim that it is the best-selling luxury sedan in America. It outsells whatever other full-size luxury sedan you want to compare it to. These numbers are indisputable.

There's only one problem: The Tesla Model S isn't a full-size luxury sedan. It's a midsize luxury sedan, and it doesn't actually compete with the cars I've listed above. (Lexus LS, BMW 7-Series, Mercedes S class, etc)

Instead, the Model S's closest competitors are cars like the Mercedes-Benz E-Class, the BMW 5 Series, the Cadillac CTS, the Audi A6, the Lexus GS and the Hyundai Genesis."

"In conclusion, the Tesla Model S is not the best-selling full-size luxury sedan in the United States because of the simple fact it isn't a full-size luxury sedan. It's not sized like one, and it's not priced like one"

[Deleted User]

Speaking of luxury competition, I noted a comment by Mr. Shiftright that Tesla has continuing panel gap issues. That didn't seem to match my experience with my Model 3, nor the other couple of dozen I've looked at in showrooms and parking lots.

So, being an analytical data kind of guy, and an overall geek, I decided to put that claim to the test and compare my Tesla Model 3 against my Audi A4 in a panel gap analysis. I hope we can all agree Audi has a good reputation in this regard, and the A4 and M3 could be considered competitors. Using a digital caliper I measured the gaps between panels in 3 spots each. This included 3 measurements of the passenger and driver sides of:

• Hood to fender
  
• Fender to front door
  
• Front door to rear door
  
• Rear door to 3/4 panel
  
• Trunk to 3/4 panel
  

And then I ran a little statistical analysis and came up with the following:

• Average gap over all panels was 3.504 mm for the Audi, and 3.358 mm for the Tesla, meaning the Tesla gaps were a bit tighter overall.
  
• The average gap on the driver side for the Audi was 3.374 mm and 3.635 mm for the passenger, with a difference of 0.261 mm. The average gap on the driver side of the Tesla was 3.435 mm and 3.281 mm for the passenger, with a difference of 0.154 mm. The Tesla was superior in side-to-side comparison of passenger side gaps to driver side gaps.
  
• The max gap of one measurement in one panel was 4.57 mm for the Audi (trunk lip) vs 4.62 for the Tesla (hood corner near the windshield), giving an edge to the Audi.
  
• Looking at the differences from passenger to driver side, and running a standard deviation calculation, the Audi came in at 0.402 versus 0.399 deviations for Tesla, meaning the Tesla was a bit more consistent in gaps between driver side and passenger side.
  
• I also examined the standard deviation within each panel gap using the three measurements. What I found was the Tesla had much more consistent gaping within each gap when looking at the three different measurements (that's 20 different calculations, so I won't post them here unless someone requests).
  

Overall the Tesla edged out the Audi, but the results are very close and I'd put them as equals. I know Tesla had some issues with the early runs of Model 3 until they dedicated attention to correcting the panel gaps, so I have no doubt there are examples out there that aren't of the same quality as mine. I also believe that they were stressed to build as many as they could at the end of 2018 and imagine some cars made it through with more inconsistency than found on mine. But they're learning and improving and I think my later build reflects their current capabilities.

Where I think they need to spend more quality time is analyzing the paint robots. All mass produced vehicles have paint texture, including Audi who has a stellar reputation for paint quality. Most even have contamination. Tesla is no different. But they can do better. The main difference between the Audi and the Tesla is not that they both have texture, but rather the Tesla is less consistent in the type of texture in the final product. The A4 is very consistent in this regard whereas the Model 3 there are changes in texture depending on the area, which indicates the robot spray heads need to be tuned to apply the same amount of paint for the same amount of time from the same distance away from the panel.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes I would agree that quibbling over some mm in panel gaps isn't worth the trouble, as long as they aren't WAY out---but the paint issues on my friend's Model 3 was totally unacceptable for a car in that price range.

[Deleted User]

Mr_Shiftright said:

I'm more inclined to agree with Doug DeMuro:

"Here's the basis for the claim that it is the best-selling luxury sedan in America. It outsells whatever other full-size luxury sedan you want to compare it to. These numbers are indisputable.

There's only one problem: The Tesla Model S isn't a full-size luxury sedan. It's a midsize luxury sedan, and it doesn't actually compete with the cars I've listed above. (Lexus LS, BMW 7-Series, Mercedes S class, etc)

Instead, the Model S's closest competitors are cars like the Mercedes-Benz E-Class, the BMW 5 Series, the Cadillac CTS, the Audi A6, the Lexus GS and the Hyundai Genesis."

"In conclusion, the Tesla Model S is not the best-selling full-size luxury sedan in the United States because of the simple fact it isn't a full-size luxury sedan. It's not sized like one, and it's not priced like one"

Thank you for confirming Tesla S competes against BMW and MB.

In regards to size, I'll trust the EPA over the opinion of Doug Demuro (specs tab):
https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39840

And, getting back to the original point, a Tesla S depreciates similarly to its German competition.

suydam

Hats off to all you industrious folks! Me, I’m spending the day hanging out with friends and watching Ohio State in the Rose Bowl.

28firefighter

My wife is taking Sam to a kid friendly brewery to meet my BIL and SIL and niece and nephew to watch the game. I’m going to wash the Saab and the Alfa and try to decompress from a hellish travel day yesterday. 

Mr_Shiftright

tyguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I'm more inclined to agree with Doug DeMuro:

"Here's the basis for the claim that it is the best-selling luxury sedan in America. It outsells whatever other full-size luxury sedan you want to compare it to. These numbers are indisputable.

There's only one problem: The Tesla Model S isn't a full-size luxury sedan. It's a midsize luxury sedan, and it doesn't actually compete with the cars I've listed above. (Lexus LS, BMW 7-Series, Mercedes S class, etc)

Instead, the Model S's closest competitors are cars like the Mercedes-Benz E-Class, the BMW 5 Series, the Cadillac CTS, the Audi A6, the Lexus GS and the Hyundai Genesis."

"In conclusion, the Tesla Model S is not the best-selling full-size luxury sedan in the United States because of the simple fact it isn't a full-size luxury sedan. It's not sized like one, and it's not priced like one"

Thank you for confirming Tesla S competes against BMW and MB.

In regards to size, I'll trust the EPA over the opinion of Doug Demuro (specs tab):
https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39840

And, getting back to the original point, a Tesla S depreciates similarly to its German competition.

Ok! Aside from price, size and appointments, a Model S is a full-size luxury car. Agreed.

ab348

I spent almost two hours shoveling about 4" of very wet, heavy snow in a steady drizzle. It was like wet cement. Got the ATS cleaned off and while I was out there, Mr. Plow came by so I took care of the present he left at the end of the driveway too. Hopefully he does not return. There was some urgency to get it done since temps are forecast to plummet later tonight and everything left untouched will be a block of ice.,

henryn

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

Happy New Year!

Both of my vehicles need washing, we have had several straight days of overcast and drizzle here in the Houston area, and the truck and the minivan both show the results. Today is nice and sunshiny, 61 degrees right now headed for 63 this afternoon. It would be a nice day to wash cars, except ... it's supposed to rain again tomorrow, so I think I'll just wait.

So what’s your main problem with dirty cars in Texas? Is it mud after a rain, dust, tumbleweed scratches...what? My employee lot at work isn’t paved so after a day there my car is covered in dust.

Texas is a very big state, with very diverse environments. No tumbleweeds here in East Texas. The last 2 summers we have had a big problem with the Sahara dust, which you have heard @abacomike complain out over in Florida. The same wind patterns bring that dust from the Sahara right over here to Texas.

The biggest problem in the winter, as in right now, is the number of days with light rain or drizzle. You wind up with crud covering the bottom half of the vehicle every time you drive it. I hesitate to call it mud, I did a bit of 4-wheeling or mudding when I was younger, and this is not at all the same.

stickguy

I hate snow. We got the storm last night too, but it was all rain.

explorerx4

I ran through the carwash mostly to get the stuff off the underneath. The stuff they coat the roads with likes to eat the exposed seals.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

well, time to take advantage of the abnormally warm (pushing 60) temps to go get both cars washed. As a bonus, I will get a shower at the same time, thanks to the gusting winds!

We have the same wind because driver100 is sending some of that Canadian cold down tonight.

Check, a lot of that cold windy weather blows across from the mid west.

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

I'm more inclined to agree with Doug DeMuro:

"Here's the basis for the claim that it is the best-selling luxury sedan in America. It outsells whatever other full-size luxury sedan you want to compare it to. These numbers are indisputable.

There's only one problem: The Tesla Model S isn't a full-size luxury sedan. It's a midsize luxury sedan, and it doesn't actually compete with the cars I've listed above. (Lexus LS, BMW 7-Series, Mercedes S class, etc)

Instead, the Model S's closest competitors are cars like the Mercedes-Benz E-Class, the BMW 5 Series, the Cadillac CTS, the Audi A6, the Lexus GS and the Hyundai Genesis."

"In conclusion, the Tesla Model S is not the best-selling full-size luxury sedan in the United States because of the simple fact it isn't a full-size luxury sedan. It's not sized like one, and it's not priced like one"

I’d be skeptical of a guy who reviews an econo box like he was expecting a luxury car. Maybe Mitsu didn’t slip him any “consideration”. He’s upset that he can see the ground through the engine bay? Huh?

https://youtu.be/5aCsNs3eYTE

driver100

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

Happy New Year!

Both of my vehicles need washing, we have had several straight days of overcast and drizzle here in the Houston area, and the truck and the minivan both show the results. Today is nice and sunshiny, 61 degrees right now headed for 63 this afternoon. It would be a nice day to wash cars, except ... it's supposed to rain again tomorrow, so I think I'll just wait.

The biggest problem in the winter, as in right now, is the number of days with light rain or drizzle. You wind up with crud covering the bottom half of the vehicle every time you drive it. I hesitate to call it mud, I did a bit of 4-wheeling or mudding when I was younger, and this is not at all the same.

Florida is famous for a Florida car wash. Leave the car out in the rain and it comes out sparkling clean.

[Deleted User]

Cold and dry here in Colorado. Single digit temps and we haven't seen any major precip in the north for quite awhile. I'd like to see some snow.

Mr_Shiftright

@oldfarmer50 Poor Mitsubishi---such an easy target! Ultimately I tell people "Buy what you like".

I always try to give a car a fair test but in the end, I will sometimes "like" an awful car and dislike one that most people do like. I think it depends on what you want a car to do for you. My and my cars need an emotional bond which is probably why the quietly efficient or predictably practical types never get my heart racing. So for me a car can be fast and boring or slow and interesting. Go figure.

However, with motorcycles it's somewhat different for me. I have always liked to ride BMWs.

imidazol97

ab348 said:

I spent almost two hours shoveling about 4" of very wet, heavy snow in a steady drizzle. It was like wet cement,

Now you've done it. You said the four letter word. SNOW. We'll get bombarded next week.

We haven't had any other than flurries or the ground was still so warm it melted. Typical December to Remember. I wanted $#&% so we could drive the area park that puts up Christmas lights which are really pretty with white snow on the ground reflecting the lights and the colors. But no luck this year.

It's 39 deg F. right now. Warmer yesterday or Sunday, I forget which day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_St._Clair

jmonroe1

ab348 said:

Wishing a great 2019 to all the great members of this board here, and also to @jmonroe .

Thanks for the specific call out. Much appreciated and deserving.

jmonroe