Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

snakeweasel

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

explorerx4 said:

Nothing the matter with a vehicle not being sporty. Just about every modern vehicle has adequate power and handling.

I will agree with that.  As much as I complain about my Elantra being slow it would blow the doors off most 70s / 80s cars.  

That's not saying much as the 70's were known for having anemic cars. I'm pretty sure our 2011 sonata would give a mid 70's Corvette a run for it's money.

My point is what we consider slow today was actually quick during those times.  

Not sure if I agree with that as a lot of muscle cars of the 60's were faster than the sports cars of the 70's. Gas shortages, emission regulations and insurance issues really hurt auto performance in the 70's.

driver100

Yeh, our 74 anemic Mustang II was pretty slow with it's Pinto engine

oldfarmer50

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I think I read that one. Is that the review where they complained about the glitchy dual clutch 7 speed? I like the idea of a turbo with 200+ hp but the price is up there into sports car territory and the exclaim trim is very rare. Only one in a three county area.

The ones I’ve driven for Enterprise are all plus models with the 2.0L which impressed me as being a well rounded vehicle for power, handling and comfort.

I just checked the web page for my local dealer. 11 of the Exclaim (turbo) models. 10 of those right around $20.1 to $20.4, and one at $23.1 (probably with the Technology package).

Almost none up here but I like that price. Makes the NY dealers look like crooks. What’s the doc fee?

I can't speak for that particular dealer, but when I'm estimating in order to make my "take it or leave it offer", I take the advertised price, add 6.25% for sales tax, and $300 for title transfer, license plates, and doc fees. That nearly always covers things nicely. The exceptions I find on new cars are for the dealer add-ons (mop and glo). If that happens, I stick by my "take it or leave it" offer. Usually they take it.

Now for the used car side of the equation, yes, I have encountered absolutely crazy mandatory fees. Central Nissan, about 2 years ago, tried to hit me with a $1,600 dealer fee of some kind on a used minivan. When I got through telling them, in a very loud voice, exactly what I thought of that they were very happy to see me leave. (smile)

I haven’t bought a used car from a dealer since the 1980s which is before they invented the doc fee scam but that’s unbelievable. It never occurred to me that they would do it on used cars. At least in NY the fee is capped rather low.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

tjc78 said:

explorerx4 said:

Nothing the matter with a vehicle not being sporty. Just about every modern vehicle has adequate power and handling.

I will agree with that.  As much as I complain about my Elantra being slow it would blow the doors off most 70s / 80s cars

.  

Tjc, how many 70s and 80s cars are you racing?

One thing I noticed, I sometimes like to get a quick start say at a light. There might be an aggressive guy in his jacked up pick up truck behind me, or I need to move one lane over and I want to get the jump on the car next to me. Or, I just want to get ahead of the pack and get some space. I am surprised that 80 to 90% of the time I can get a big jump on the competition next to me or behind me.......and that is with the little 4 and a turbo in the C250. I am amazed at the power that little engine has......from a standing start or from about 20 mph....of course there is major turbo lag from about 5 mph to 18 mph.

So you give people reason to come on boards like this and complain about old guys in MBs who drive them like sports cars?

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

I grabbed this random example. I am sure the Elantra 2.0 is quicker, though I bet the Camaro sounds better!

1975 Chevrolet Camaro (350ci) Compare Car 0-60 mph 10.9

1975 was the low point for emissions choked engines. I bet your Elantra put out comparable horsepower to a Corvette.

qbrozen

I’m pretty sure the Elantra has it beat, in fact. Off the top of my head, I THINK the vette’s low point was well south of 200 gross Hp. 

stickguy

I think the L48 engine at one point probably was down in the 175 range. The Elantra had 201. Corvette would still have had a lot more torque (Elantra was right about 200 on that too), but porkier.

oldfarmer50

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I’m not sure I’d trust a dual clutch system in an econo car. Look at the mess Ford had with the 2012-16 Focus. The resale of a 16 vs a 17 is shocking.

I wouldn't worry about a dual clutch in an economy car, I would be more concerned with the technological expertise and experience of the transmissions builder.

Scotty agrees.

https://youtu.be/YYnYkx8Rwp0

imidazol97

Is this guy on meth or something? He flairs his arms and tries to act obnoxious, which is easy for him to be.

I was under the impression that the transmission in my GM Malibu is Aisin. Same transmission is in the Cruze I owned that my son now owns. T45. It may have a GM corporate ID but it's an Aisin transmission. I do not know about the latest generation of Cruze. Where did the cruze in his picture get the shoulder deco behind the front wheels?

explorerx4

That blue car is an SS, not a Cruze.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

That blue car is an SS, not a Cruze.

I would mistake it for a Cruze too.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I’m not sure I’d trust a dual clutch system in an econo car. Look at the mess Ford had with the 2012-16 Focus. The resale of a 16 vs a 17 is shocking.

I wouldn't worry about a dual clutch in an economy car, I would be more concerned with the technological expertise and experience of the transmissions builder.

Scotty agrees.

https://youtu.be/YYnYkx8Rwp0

Let's just say that I wouldn't buy a used car from him.

Back to the transmission, my Honda has a DCT which I believe is made by Honda and I believe is the second generation of it. It seems to be doing good with them having few issues.

ronsteve

stickguy said:

stopped today for gas after coming home from visiting family. stopped at a BP station that was pretty cheap. $207.9 in big green letters. When I got to the pump, I think they had the biggest spread I ever saw. That was RUG. Premium was $299.9, and mid grade was $279.9.

I should have stopped 25 miles sooner on the way to Nashville yesterday. Got past the last of the sub-$2 regular but still had time to burn before we were supposed to meet a friend. So I found myself refueling in the city. Regular was $2.499... mid was $2.949 and premium $3.399. Fortunately that Shell doesn't limit the use of Kroger points, so I put in mid-grade for $2.249/gal. Calculated 25.9 mpg for a mostly-highway tank, compared to 26.5 indicated on the computer.

Near my house there's a Valero with a similar spread (more like the one you mention) but most of Louisville is a 30 cent bump for mid and 60 for premium. My Costco membership really comes in handy around here.

I'm finding the RDX prefers to cruise at least 75mph on the Interstates. When I settle in at 70ish on the Gene Slider, the VCM seems to cut in and out, allowing these weird little 100-200rpm fluctuations that seem most common at the bottom of a hill. Also easy to catch the engine napping on the next climb, so I'd say maybe 4 times in 300ish miles of highway cruising it kicked down to 5th. Might not sound like a lot to some folks, but it's still an adjustment after the Volvo turbo.

jwm40517

Not sure what the 0-60 time would be but my base engine 74 Corvette ran 10.20 at 70mph at the local eighth mile track around 1985. I am sure many new cars would do much better and not just high performance ones.

imidazol97

explorerx4 said:

That blue car is an SS, not a Cruze.

Thanks. That helps my confusion.

bwia

My daughter and I were watching The Internship, with Robert  De Niro and Ann Hathaway, a movie about an internship program for seniors and retirees.

After the movie was over my daughter suggested that perhaps I should consider such a succesdful  program at Enterprise Rent-a-Car where she once worked.

She related a story about an 80+ Mr. Jim. He enjoyed picking up customers and cars. As time went by Mr. Jim started having minor accidents. 

One day he was involved in an accident which resulted in the car hanging over a cliff. Mr. Jim was so upset thay he began to cry. Realizing that his driving skills were deteriorating and perhaps he would be sacked he quit and never returned. She wondered aloud, whatever happened to Mr. Jim? I said I would ask @oldfarmer, who might have some insight on seniors driving beyond their prime.

oldfarmer50

jwm40517 said:

Not sure what the 0-60 time would be but my base engine 74 Corvette ran 10.20 at 70mph at the local eighth mile track around 1985. I am sure many new cars would do much better and not just high performance ones.

My 1984 Corvette 350 had 200hp. 1 less than a Kia Soul 1.6L turbo.

Cars have come a long way.

bwia

By the way, The Internship is a great movie. I watched it on TNT but I sure it's available on Netflix. 

oldfarmer50

bwia said:

My daughter and I were watching The Intern, with Robert  De Niro and Ann Hathaway, a movie about an internship program for seniors and retirees.

After the movie was over she suggested that perhaps I should consider such a succesdful  program at Enterprise Rent-a-Car where she once worked.

She related a story about an 80+ Mr. Jim. He enjoyed picking up customers and cars. As time went by Mr. Jim started having minor accidents. 

One day he was involved in an accident with the hanging over a high curb. Mr. Jim was so upset thay he began to cry. Realizing that his driving skills were deteriorating and perhaps he would be sacked he quit and never returned. She wondered aloud, whatever happened to Mr. Jim? I said I would ask @oldfarmer, who might have some insight on seniors driving beyond their prime.

We have so many old drivers that some days I think I’m in a rolling nursing home. One guy who fit your profile was a 82 year old former marine. He walked with a cane and a few times he had to be picked up after he stumbled while walking. He was such a great guy that the crew looked after him but it was apparent that age was catching up with him. Finally he was diagnosed with ALS and retired before anything happened.

Then there’s the younger oldsters who make mistakes. One guy who just started rear ended a car while looking at his GPS and another fellow who has been there for years knocked the security gates right off the hinges coming out of the lot. Some individuals have such a bad reputation that other drivers won’t ride with them.

If you’re looking for a retirement job I wouldn’t go for the rental office position. That’s a brutal 70 hours per week dealing with customers, washing cars in bad weather and acting like a taxi driver. It’s a salary position so on an hourly basis they make less than we do. They tell me that the young people who take those jobs are only there to build their resumes’ and leave after a few years. I’ve never seen anyone in our offices that looked over 30.

How long did your daughter work there?

bwia

She worked at Enterprise in Atlanta for approximately two years and she hated it. This was her first job out of college. And stayed long enough to build a resume and before she landed a job in another city.

henryn

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I think I read that one. Is that the review where they complained about the glitchy dual clutch 7 speed? I like the idea of a turbo with 200+ hp but the price is up there into sports car territory and the exclaim trim is very rare. Only one in a three county area.

The ones I’ve driven for Enterprise are all plus models with the 2.0L which impressed me as being a well rounded vehicle for power, handling and comfort.

I just checked the web page for my local dealer. 11 of the Exclaim (turbo) models. 10 of those right around $20.1 to $20.4, and one at $23.1 (probably with the Technology package).

Almost none up here but I like that price. Makes the NY dealers look like crooks. What’s the doc fee?

I can't speak for that particular dealer, but when I'm estimating in order to make my "take it or leave it offer", I take the advertised price, add 6.25% for sales tax, and $300 for title transfer, license plates, and doc fees. That nearly always covers things nicely. The exceptions I find on new cars are for the dealer add-ons (mop and glo). If that happens, I stick by my "take it or leave it" offer. Usually they take it.

Now for the used car side of the equation, yes, I have encountered absolutely crazy mandatory fees. Central Nissan, about 2 years ago, tried to hit me with a $1,600 dealer fee of some kind on a used minivan. When I got through telling them, in a very loud voice, exactly what I thought of that they were very happy to see me leave. (smile)

I haven’t bought a used car from a dealer since the 1980s which is before they invented the doc fee scam but that’s unbelievable. It never occurred to me that they would do it on used cars. At least in NY the fee is capped rather low.

I seem to have a habit of buying used cars from new car dealers, that is when I do purchase used cars.

2006 Cadillac Sedan DeVille (1 owner, 34k miles)

2006 Tahoe

2016 Chrysler Town and Country

That's the one's I remember, over the last 5 or 6 years.

In every case, it took more negotiation than for a new car purchase. For new cars, I usually have an online advertised price, prepare my "take it or leave it" offer, and they usually take it. In most cases, I have to go home and wait it out for a day or two, then they contact me and take my offer. The difference of opinion is always over dealer add-ons, which I refuse to pay for.

On the used cars, it's always a different story, and it's always a painful process. Well, almost always. The Cadillac I purchased from Sewell Cadillac, and they are indeed nice people. Always a pleasure to do business with, even when you are disagreeing, it is a pleasant experience.

The Tahoe I purchased from a Land Rover / Jaguar dealer. Strange place, to say the least. The SUV was as advertised (quite nice), and they honored the advertised price, but they had a mandatory $500 dealer fee on all used cars. I refused, stuck to my guns. They eventually lowered their asking price so they could still show the $500 fee and reach the same bottom line.

The kicker was, the manager would only accept a certified check as payment. I don't remember ever, not once in my long life, buying a car (used or new) from a new car dealership and they would not accept a personal check. It rather ticked me off, and I was about to tell the manager what he could do with his Tahoe. But then it occurred to me that was probably what he wanted me to do. Which was very strange, why not just refuse the deal? But I went to the credit union, got a certified check (cashier's check actually), and came back. I then insisted on giving the check to the manager. It was a very interesting exchange, to say the least. The very opposite of my experience with Sewell Cadillac.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

tjc78 said:

explorerx4 said:

Nothing the matter with a vehicle not being sporty. Just about every modern vehicle has adequate power and handling.

I will agree with that.  As much as I complain about my Elantra being slow it would blow the doors off most 70s / 80s cars

.  

Tjc, how many 70s and 80s cars are you racing?

One thing I noticed, I sometimes like to get a quick start say at a light. There might be an aggressive guy in his jacked up pick up truck behind me, or I need to move one lane over and I want to get the jump on the car next to me. Or, I just want to get ahead of the pack and get some space. I am surprised that 80 to 90% of the time I can get a big jump on the competition next to me or behind me.......and that is with the little 4 and a turbo in the C250. I am amazed at the power that little engine has......from a standing start or from about 20 mph....of course there is major turbo lag from about 5 mph to 18 mph.

So you give people reason to come on boards like this and complain about old guys in MBs who drive them like sports cars

?

Hey, it's like violence in a movie, there is good violence and bad violence. Good violence is necessary to create a story, bad violence is violence that serves no real purpose and is overkill (ha ha) to the plot.

I only use the extra power when it is absolutely necessary, or as a defensive maneuver.

driver100

="oldfarmer50"

Scotty agrees.

I don't want Scotty to come near me or my car.

stickguy

Ron, that is about the same MPG I got on my trip this week. Some runs I have pushed 30 (mostly going south through the flatlands!). I know what you mean about the sweet spot. I got good on a flat road keeping it on VCM at about 77-78 MPH, and the instant readout was well over 30. Was lower if I was only doing 65.

Michaell

bwia said:

By the way, The Internship is a great movie. I watched it on TNT but I sure it's available on Netflix. 

Movie trivia question - what type of car is she driven around in?

28firefighter

Q7 TDI

ab348

henryn said:

The kicker was, the manager would only accept a certified check as payment. I don't remember ever, not once in my long life, buying a car (used or new) from a new car dealership and they would not accept a personal check. It rather ticked me off, and I was about to tell the manager what he could do with his Tahoe. But then it occurred to me that was probably what he wanted me to do. Which was very strange, why not just refuse the deal? But I went to the credit union, got a certified check (cashier's check actually), and came back. I then insisted on giving the check to the manager. It was a very interesting exchange, to say the least. The very opposite of my experience with Sewell Cadillac.

I had a similar experience last year when I bought the ATS. This was the 3rd car I had acquired this decade from that same dealer and in the other two a personal cheque was just fine. On this one they insisted on certified. I was tremendously annoyed. I offered to do an electronic funds transfer and they refused that as well, so a trip to the bank was necessary. I made my unhappiness with them very clear.

I'm assuming it is some requirement they either put on themselves after a few bad experiences or perhaps a requirement from their accounting or insurance providers.

carnaught

Some dealerships around here have required you to fill out financing paperwork, to pay “x” amount per month at a ridiculous rate, which would only go into effect if your personal check didn’t clear. I wasn’t a fan of this although I understand their reasoning.

suydam

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I think I read that one. Is that the review where they complained about the glitchy dual clutch 7 speed? I like the idea of a turbo with 200+ hp but the price is up there into sports car territory and the exclaim trim is very rare. Only one in a three county area.

The ones I’ve driven for Enterprise are all plus models with the 2.0L which impressed me as being a well rounded vehicle for power, handling and comfort.

I just checked the web page for my local dealer. 11 of the Exclaim (turbo) models. 10 of those right around $20.1 to $20.4, and one at $23.1 (probably with the Technology package).

Almost none up here but I like that price. Makes the NY dealers look like crooks. What’s the doc fee?

I can't speak for that particular dealer, but when I'm estimating in order to make my "take it or leave it offer", I take the advertised price, add 6.25% for sales tax, and $300 for title transfer, license plates, and doc fees. That nearly always covers things nicely. The exceptions I find on new cars are for the dealer add-ons (mop and glo). If that happens, I stick by my "take it or leave it" offer. Usually they take it.

Now for the used car side of the equation, yes, I have encountered absolutely crazy mandatory fees. Central Nissan, about 2 years ago, tried to hit me with a $1,600 dealer fee of some kind on a used minivan. When I got through telling them, in a very loud voice, exactly what I thought of that they were very happy to see me leave. (smile)

I haven’t bought a used car from a dealer since the 1980s which is before they invented the doc fee scam but that’s unbelievable. It never occurred to me that they would do it on used cars. At least in NY the fee is capped rather low.

I seem to have a habit of buying used cars from new car dealers, that is when I do purchase used cars.

2006 Cadillac Sedan DeVille (1 owner, 34k miles)

2006 Tahoe

2016 Chrysler Town and Country

That's the one's I remember, over the last 5 or 6 years.

In every case, it took more negotiation than for a new car purchase. For new cars, I usually have an online advertised price, prepare my "take it or leave it" offer, and they usually take it. In most cases, I have to go home and wait it out for a day or two, then they contact me and take my offer. The difference of opinion is always over dealer add-ons, which I refuse to pay for.

On the used cars, it's always a different story, and it's always a painful process. Well, almost always. The Cadillac I purchased from Sewell Cadillac, and they are indeed nice people. Always a pleasure to do business with, even when you are disagreeing, it is a pleasant experience.

The Tahoe I purchased from a Land Rover / Jaguar dealer. Strange place, to say the least. The SUV was as advertised (quite nice), and they honored the advertised price, but they had a mandatory $500 dealer fee on all used cars. I refused, stuck to my guns. They eventually lowered their asking price so they could still show the $500 fee and reach the same bottom line.

The kicker was, the manager would only accept a certified check as payment. I don't remember ever, not once in my long life, buying a car (used or new) from a new car dealership and they would not accept a personal check. It rather ticked me off, and I was about to tell the manager what he could do with his Tahoe. But then it occurred to me that was probably what he wanted me to do. Which was very strange, why not just refuse the deal? But I went to the credit union, got a certified check (cashier's check actually), and came back. I then insisted on giving the check to the manager. It was a very interesting exchange, to say the least. The very opposite of my experience with Sewell Cadillac.

I’ve had just the opposite experience. I always bought used cars from dealers, but the range of negotiation is much narrower. Generally a take it or leave it approach, always easy to move on. Pretty straightforward.

oldfarmer50

bwia said:

She worked at Enterprise in Atlanta for approximately two years and she hated it. This was her first job out of college. And stayed long enough to build a resume and before she landed a job in another city.

That confirms what I’ve been told. Supposedly, that position includes excellent management training so a few years in purgatory pays off in marketability later.

oldfarmer50

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I think I read that one. Is that the review where they complained about the glitchy dual clutch 7 speed? I like the idea of a turbo with 200+ hp but the price is up there into sports car territory and the exclaim trim is very rare. Only one in a three county area.

The ones I’ve driven for Enterprise are all plus models with the 2.0L which impressed me as being a well rounded vehicle for power, handling and comfort.

I just checked the web page for my local dealer. 11 of the Exclaim (turbo) models. 10 of those right around $20.1 to $20.4, and one at $23.1 (probably with the Technology package).

Almost none up here but I like that price. Makes the NY dealers look like crooks. What’s the doc fee?

I can't speak for that particular dealer, but when I'm estimating in order to make my "take it or leave it offer", I take the advertised price, add 6.25% for sales tax, and $300 for title transfer, license plates, and doc fees. That nearly always covers things nicely. The exceptions I find on new cars are for the dealer add-ons (mop and glo). If that happens, I stick by my "take it or leave it" offer. Usually they take it.

Now for the used car side of the equation, yes, I have encountered absolutely crazy mandatory fees. Central Nissan, about 2 years ago, tried to hit me with a $1,600 dealer fee of some kind on a used minivan. When I got through telling them, in a very loud voice, exactly what I thought of that they were very happy to see me leave. (smile)

I haven’t bought a used car from a dealer since the 1980s which is before they invented the doc fee scam but that’s unbelievable. It never occurred to me that they would do it on used cars. At least in NY the fee is capped rather low.

I seem to have a habit of buying used cars from new car dealers, that is when I do purchase used cars.

2006 Cadillac Sedan DeVille (1 owner, 34k miles)

2006 Tahoe

2016 Chrysler Town and Country

That's the one's I remember, over the last 5 or 6 years.

In every case, it took more negotiation than for a new car purchase. For new cars, I usually have an online advertised price, prepare my "take it or leave it" offer, and they usually take it. In most cases, I have to go home and wait it out for a day or two, then they contact me and take my offer. The difference of opinion is always over dealer add-ons, which I refuse to pay for.

On the used cars, it's always a different story, and it's always a painful process. Well, almost always. The Cadillac I purchased from Sewell Cadillac, and they are indeed nice people. Always a pleasure to do business with, even when you are disagreeing, it is a pleasant experience.

The Tahoe I purchased from a Land Rover / Jaguar dealer. Strange place, to say the least. The SUV was as advertised (quite nice), and they honored the advertised price, but they had a mandatory $500 dealer fee on all used cars. I refused, stuck to my guns. They eventually lowered their asking price so they could still show the $500 fee and reach the same bottom line.

The kicker was, the manager would only accept a certified check as payment. I don't remember ever, not once in my long life, buying a car (used or new) from a new car dealership and they would not accept a personal check. It rather ticked me off, and I was about to tell the manager what he could do with his Tahoe. But then it occurred to me that was probably what he wanted me to do. Which was very strange, why not just refuse the deal? But I went to the credit union, got a certified check (cashier's check actually), and came back. I then insisted on giving the check to the manager. It was a very interesting exchange, to say the least. The very opposite of my experience with Sewell Cadillac.

I’m trying to remember which one it was but at least one new car dealer wanted a certified over a personal check. Didn’t matter to me since I had to transfer money from other accounts anyway.

Seeing that it’s easy to counterfeit certified checks these days why would a dealer care? Are there scammers who go to the trouble of faking all that personal info like a drivers license just to bounce a check on an item that can be easily identified?

henryn

oldfarmer50 said:

I’m trying to remember which one it was but at least one new car dealer wanted a certified over a personal check. Didn’t matter to me since I had to transfer money from other accounts anyway.

Seeing that it’s easy to counterfeit certified checks these days why would a dealer care? Are there scammers who go to the trouble of faking all that personal info like a drivers license just to bounce a check on an item that can be easily identified?

I have heard or read plenty of stories about counterfeit certified checks, enough of them that I won't take such a check myself. The last used car I sold, we met at his bank and I got to see the cashier draw up the check.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I think I read that one. Is that the review where they complained about the glitchy dual clutch 7 speed? I like the idea of a turbo with 200+ hp but the price is up there into sports car territory and the exclaim trim is very rare. Only one in a three county area.

The ones I’ve driven for Enterprise are all plus models with the 2.0L which impressed me as being a well rounded vehicle for power, handling and comfort.

I just checked the web page for my local dealer. 11 of the Exclaim (turbo) models. 10 of those right around $20.1 to $20.4, and one at $23.1 (probably with the Technology package).

Almost none up here but I like that price. Makes the NY dealers look like crooks. What’s the doc fee?

I can't speak for that particular dealer, but when I'm estimating in order to make my "take it or leave it offer", I take the advertised price, add 6.25% for sales tax, and $300 for title transfer, license plates, and doc fees. That nearly always covers things nicely. The exceptions I find on new cars are for the dealer add-ons (mop and glo). If that happens, I stick by my "take it or leave it" offer. Usually they take it.

Now for the used car side of the equation, yes, I have encountered absolutely crazy mandatory fees. Central Nissan, about 2 years ago, tried to hit me with a $1,600 dealer fee of some kind on a used minivan. When I got through telling them, in a very loud voice, exactly what I thought of that they were very happy to see me leave. (smile)

I haven’t bought a used car from a dealer since the 1980s which is before they invented the doc fee scam but that’s unbelievable. It never occurred to me that they would do it on used cars. At least in NY the fee is capped rather low.

I seem to have a habit of buying used cars from new car dealers, that is when I do purchase used cars.

2006 Cadillac Sedan DeVille (1 owner, 34k miles)

2006 Tahoe

2016 Chrysler Town and Country

That's the one's I remember, over the last 5 or 6 years.

In every case, it took more negotiation than for a new car purchase. For new cars, I usually have an online advertised price, prepare my "take it or leave it" offer, and they usually take it. In most cases, I have to go home and wait it out for a day or two, then they contact me and take my offer. The difference of opinion is always over dealer add-ons, which I refuse to pay for.

On the used cars, it's always a different story, and it's always a painful process. Well, almost always. The Cadillac I purchased from Sewell Cadillac, and they are indeed nice people. Always a pleasure to do business with, even when you are disagreeing, it is a pleasant experience.

The Tahoe I purchased from a Land Rover / Jaguar dealer. Strange place, to say the least. The SUV was as advertised (quite nice), and they honored the advertised price, but they had a mandatory $500 dealer fee on all used cars. I refused, stuck to my guns. They eventually lowered their asking price so they could still show the $500 fee and reach the same bottom line.

The kicker was, the manager would only accept a certified check as payment. I don't remember ever, not once in my long life, buying a car (used or new) from a new car dealership and they would not accept a personal check. It rather ticked me off, and I was about to tell the manager what he could do with his Tahoe. But then it occurred to me that was probably what he wanted me to do. Which was very strange, why not just refuse the deal? But I went to the credit union, got a certified check (cashier's check actually), and came back. I then insisted on giving the check to the manager. It was a very interesting exchange, to say the least. The very opposite of my experience with Sewell Cadillac.

I’m trying to remember which one it was but at least one new car dealer wanted a certified over a personal check. Didn’t matter to me since I had to transfer money from other accounts anyway.

Seeing that it’s easy to counterfeit certified checks these days why would a dealer care? Are there scammers who go to the trouble of faking all that personal info like a drivers license just to bounce a check on an item that can be easily identified?

The dealer probably got burned and made it a policy. Same as now they all want a copy of your license before you go on a test drive...even if you bought 10 cars from them.....probably an insurance requirement.

If they sold a car to someone who wrote a bad check.....then what happens when they take back the car.....I assume it becomes a used car?

Highly unlikely someone would pay with a bogus certified check, when the dealer has all their personal information. Easy to write a bad check and not have the money in the account.

henryn

driver100 said:

If they sold a car to someone who wrote a bad check.....then what happens when they take back the car.....I assume it becomes a used car?

Highly unlikely someone would pay with a bogus certified check, when the dealer has all their personal information. Easy to write a bad check and not have the money in the account.

I don't claim to be an expert, but my understanding is that it does not become a "used car" until a title gets issued by the state. I have noticed that it takes new car dealers a month or so to get license plates, and I assume they purchase the license plates when they register the sale, pay the sales tax, and apply for a title in your name. Which would give them plenty of time for the check to clear before they apply for the title in your name.

driver100

But, what if you buy a car off their lot, they exchange the plates, still need to hand over ownership, and you call your insurance company all in the same day within hours you are on the road, and they don't know the check bounced for 2 or 3 days?

ab348

Don't banks still answer their phone if you call and ask if the cheque you just received is any good?

jmonroe1

Mr_Shiftright said:

I'd certainly consider an EV as a second car when the prices come down to around $16K.

16K gets you the 1HP non-turbo model. Still interested?

jmonroe

bwia

Actually, a certified check is unnecessary since the dealer clears a regular check at the time of presentation.

That's why Walmart accepts personal checks because the money is automatically and immediately withdrawn from your account. 

All these extra costs of buying a cashier's cheque is overkill at best. 

explorerx4

I put some money down using a certified bank check. Somehow they lost it, so they had to wait 90 days for the money until the bank would issue a replacement check.

tjc78

ab348 said:

Don't banks still answer their phone if you call and ask if the cheque you just received is any good?

They could ... but if you were shady you could take the money out of the account after they verified.  

explorerx4

I know some of you have cats and will appreciate this video.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/college-wrestler-leaps-icy-lake-162519413.html

Mr_Shiftright

snakeweasel said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I'd certainly consider an EV as a second car when the prices come down to around $16K.

If you got an EV would you change your handle?

No, because I'd still have an ICE and I'd still have this problem:

pensfan83

ab348 said:

Don't banks still answer their phone if you call and ask if the cheque you just received is any good?

Most of the larger ones should. For example, we have a group that will validate funds held in deposit products such as checking, savings, and CD for external parties such as dealerships, government agencies, or 3rd party lenders.

stickguy

tjc78 said:

ab348 said:

Don't banks still answer their phone if you call and ask if the cheque you just received is any good?

They could ... but if you were shady you could take the money out of the account after they verified.  

won't work. When you get the certified check, the money is taken out of your account then. so if the dealer verifies it is good, it really means the bank will honor it from their funds, not your account.

at least that is how I thin it works!

pensfan83

You are correct. When a person purchases a cashier's check and the funds are drawn from your account into the bank's general ledger account the bank becomes the official maker of the check, not the customer and why the funds, aside from fraudulent cashier's checks, are guaranteed. And since banks are the maker of the check they will generally not stop payment on them without an indemnification agreement from the customer acknowledging the check was lost, stolen, or destroyed. Even then it requires a relatively high burden of proof the check was lost, stolen, or destroyed.

benjaminh

Mr_Shiftright said:

snakeweasel said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I'd certainly consider an EV as a second car when the prices come down to around $16K.

If you got an EV would you change your handle?

No, because I'd still have an ICE and I'd still have this problem:

Me too. I try to maximize my fun while limiting my speeding by accelerating quickly up to c. 5-10 mph past the speed limit. Surprisingly fun. And the sound is nice too....I've only had one speeding ticket in my life (although I deserved many more), and I'm worried I'm going to get another because of the fun I'm having with the Acura. But I don't want to pay higher insurance rates. They said they might cut my insurance rates if I got a big brother device put on my car, but I said no thanks—don't at all like the idea of it, and in any case it would find that I'm guilty, and so I'm sure my rates would go up instead. But actually the mpg on the TLX is pretty good even with the fun I'm having.

roadburner

imidazol97 said:

Is this guy on meth or something? He flairs his arms and tries to act obnoxious, which is easy for him to be.

I was under the impression that the transmission in my GM Malibu is Aisin. Same transmission is in the Cruze I owned that my son now owns. T45. It may have a GM corporate ID but it's an Aisin transmission. I do not know about the latest generation of Cruze. Where did the cruze in his picture get the shoulder deco behind the front wheels?

Kilmer is a complete moron. I love this parody- the guy nails it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqhkIOMjCW0

oldfarmer50

benjaminh said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

snakeweasel said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I'd certainly consider an EV as a second car when the prices come down to around $16K.

If you got an EV would you change your handle?

No, because I'd still have an ICE and I'd still have this problem:

Me too. I try to maximize my fun while limiting my speeding by accelerating quickly up to c. 5-10 mph past the speed limit. Surprisingly fun. And the sound is nice too....I've only had one speeding ticket in my life (although I deserved many more), and I'm worried I'm going to get another because of the fun I'm having with the Acura. But I don't want to pay higher insurance rates. They said they might cut my insurance rates if I got a big brother device put on my car, but I said no thanks—don't at all like the idea of it, and in any case it would find that I'm guilty, and so I'm sure my rates would go up instead. But actually the mpg on the TLX is pretty good even with the fun I'm having.

I thought of getting one of those low rate deals on the two cars I put away for the winter. Slap that spy nanny on them as they go to sleep. I’d show to be the safest driver ever.

In fact I’m surprised that insurance companies don’t give you a discount for not driving in winter when you’re more likely to have an accident.

roadburner

jwm40517 said:

Not sure what the 0-60 time would be but my base engine 74 Corvette ran 10.20 at 70mph at the local eighth mile track around 1985. I am sure many new cars would do much better and not just high performance ones.

My 2 Series runs in the mid to low eights; it would drop into the sevens if I could get it to hook up.

roadburner

driver100 said:

I only use the extra power when it is absolutely necessary, or as a defensive maneuver.

I define "absolutely necessary" as any time I have to blow the doors of some poor fool at the Stoplight Grand Prix...