Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

sb55

driver100 said:

Another thing I am grumpy about is we went over the Sunshine Bridge today to go to St Petersburg. The toll is $1.50 and I keep a baggie with $1 bills and lots of quarters for such occasions. It seems like a lot of people have to go looking through their wallet or purse to find some money....because the line ups are a lot longer than they should be, and some people are slow to find their money and get their change.

That is my pet peeve for the day....oh yea, and the guy that had to go from the left lane across 3 lanes of traffic to make his exit at the last minute, but, that is an every day occurrence so not worth mentioning.

I was in Florida last month. I had not idea that the State had so many toll roads. I thought that only the Florida Turnpike was a toll road, but no! Waze had me go from Lakeland to Sanford on a toll road. I think that there was a toll plaza about every 5-7 miles and it cost about $18.00 for that fairly short stretch. Not very tourist friendly for people who don't have the specific pass. I don't know why they don't do the ticket thing like the Jersey turnpike does, and let you just pay when you exit.

venture

abacomike said:

berri said:

Doesn't Florida have an electronic toll pass or some such?

Yes - I have a transponder - SUN-PASS is what it’s called.  Good for all toll roads in Florida and for parking at airports.  I believe it’s good for bridges as well - the bridges down here are all SUN-PASS friendly.

Maybe Driver can get one and keep that in his baggie.

driver100

abacomike said:

berri said:

Doesn't Florida have an electronic toll pass or some such?

Yes - I have a transponder - SUN-PASS is what it’s called.  Good for all toll roads in Florida and for parking at airports.  I believe it’s good for bridges as well - the bridges down here are all SUN-PASS friendly

.

Yes, about half the people have them and zip through. People like us go on a toll road about 6 times a year...probably not worth the charge for a transponder. In this day and age they should be able to email you a bill, which you would pay electronically instead of having toll collectors...though, I guess it does give people jobs.

driver100

venture said:

abacomike said:

berri said:

Doesn't Florida have an electronic toll pass or some such?

Yes - I have a transponder - SUN-PASS is what it’s called.  Good for all toll roads in Florida and for parking at airports.  I believe it’s good for bridges as well - the bridges down here are all SUN-PASS friendly.

Maybe Driver can get one and keep that in his baggie

.

Thanks venture...see reply above.

snakeweasel

fintail said:

I think most people who are going to hop on a bike have the balance issues worked out already. Countersteering and shifting also aren't usually issues on a Vespa

Yeah but the difference between the Geo the 42 foot motorhome the non CDL box truck and the 1000 hp car is nothing compared to the difference between being on 2 wheels and 4. Balancing issues and low speed maneuvers as well as lane positions, the fact that body movements help steer the bike and contra steering just to name a few. Not to mention shifting a bike is just like shifting a car, just upside down and backwards.

At slow speeds, like on parking lots, balance is an issue that 4 wheel vehicles don't have. And why shifting isn't an issue counter steering is still present on a Vespa even at low speeds.

stickguy

Many places, including the PA turnpike, are doing away with collectors. Either a transponder or camera that mails you a bill (at a hefty premium I believe).

ab348

driver100 said:

People like us go on a toll road about 6 times a year...probably not worth the charge for a transponder.

They charge for the transponder? That strikes me as odd. Up here the harbor bridges use transponders but they are free, with the only charge being the toll every time it is used. Makes sense b/c they want to encourage use of the transponders over cash.

stickguy

I think EZ pass charges $1 per month service fee. Units were free originally though. You do get some discounts, but even without, $1 is a raging bargain for the convenience factor!

dino001

sb55 said:

I was in Florida last month. I had not idea that the State had so many toll roads. I thought that only the Florida Turnpike was a toll road, but no! Waze had me go from Lakeland to Sanford on a toll road. I think that there was a toll plaza about every 5-7 miles and it cost about $18.00 for that fairly short stretch. Not very tourist friendly for people who don't have the specific pass. I don't know why they don't do the ticket thing like the Jersey turnpike does, and let you just pay when you exit.

And there will be many more. Pretty much every new large project for a limited access highway is a toll road. They even tried to convert some of the existing Interstate lanes to tall in expansion projects, but got stopped by courts. Now by law they are allowed only slap toll on the additional lanes that run parallel. This will be the case in Tampa/St. Pete Howard Frankland Bridge (keep same number of free lanes, but add couple of toll lanes).

stickguy

Maryland and VA did that on 95. Added limited access stretches that you have to pay for. Optional to use of course.

dino001

driver100 said:

Yes, about half the people have them and zip through. People like us go on a toll road about 6 times a year...probably not worth the charge for a transponder. In this day and age they should be able to email you a bill, which you would pay electronically instead of having toll collectors...though, I guess it does give people jobs.

It costs next to nothing. 5 bucks for a "Mini" (sticker). 20 bucks for the portable. On the Skyway you get 43 cent discount each way, i.e. it would take just 6 round trips to Mini "pay for itself" and you get the time savings "free". It also gives you an opportunity to pay much less on the unmanned toll roads (Lee Roy Selmon, Veterans/Suncoast, new Gateway currently under construction), as those have an additional fee charged for those without the Sunpass. I think it's a no brainer.

fintail

Funny thing, I've rode bikes and have an endorsement, but thanks for the lesson.

I'm much more concerned about entitled trust funder affluenza sufferer in a large brotruck/SUV causing havoc than a hipster on a Vespa (who will never countersteer on their 25 mph tops drive from their loft apartment to Whole Foods). One needs a special license, the other, not so much.

snakeweasel said:

At slow speeds, like on parking lots, balance is an issue that 4 wheel vehicles don't have. And why shifting isn't an issue counter steering is still present on a Vespa even at low speeds.

fintail

Nothing is free, but some still pay far less for that care (and get more for their taxes when not controlled by a certain complex Ike warned us about), and have overall better results (life expectancy data says a lot).

There's a free lunch if you are in the lucky birth club.

jmonroe1 said:

Are you serious? Do you really think your health care is FREE? Here in the US most of us were taught at an early age that there is no such thing as a free lunch. The rest have credit card debt that is out of sight.

jmonroe

fintail

And no worries about medical bankruptcy or having everything you've worked for stolen by a health condition, which is a big thing in one land and an alien concept elsewhere.

driver100 said:

That is why I used "quotation" marks. It isn't really free, we do pay for it, like you said, nothing is free, but, we cn get medical care and there is no actual cost for that particular visit or operation, and I mean from a broken arm to a heart by-pass. That might be worth paying an extra $1 a gallon for, especially if you don't drive much. No $300,000 hospital bill to worry about!

suydam

In PA the transponders were free. Since pretty much every highway there is a toll road, I’d certainly get one if I lived there. In PA I got one and opened an account when my daughter lived there, just visiting a few times a year.

ab348

Fin, the health care system here is run by govt, not just paid for by them, which makes a huge difference in how it performs. You have all of the problems of a massive bureaucracy and the resultant lack of flexibility, productivity and accountability that goes with that. Plus there is never enough money to keep up with the tech or even to maintain facilities properly, while closing some outdated facilities in locations that have been left behind by the population is tantamount to unthinkable.

You may not face medical bankruptcy here, but you may well die or have quality of life severely limited before that could happen anyway because of lack of proper and timely treatment. There is no free lunch.

venture

suydam said:

In PA the transponders were free. Since pretty much every highway there is a toll road, I’d certainly get one if I lived there. In PA I got one and opened an account when my daughter lived there, just visiting a few times a year.

The only toll roads in Pennsylvania are the Turnpike or extensions.

venture

stickguy said:

I think EZ pass charges $1 per month service fee. Units were free originally though. You do get some discounts, but even without, $1 is a raging bargain for the convenience factor!

The transponders are still free. They charge $3 a year now though. At least according to the EZ Pass web site. I haven't noticed.

snakeweasel

ab348 said:

People like us go on a toll road about 6 times a year...probably not worth the charge for a transponder.

They charge for the transponder? That strikes me as odd. Up here the harbor bridges use transponders but they are free, with the only charge being the toll every time it is used. Makes sense b/c they want to encourage use of the transponders over cash.

Here there is a $10 deposit on the transponders and no fees other than the toll charges. Once you return the transponder you get your deposit back.

stickguy

One more hung on EZ pass is all the different entities do their own thing, with fees and discounts. So depends on where you got it from. Mine is actually from the NY port authority, I have had the account for so long.

snakeweasel

dino001 said:

Yes, about half the people have them and zip through. People like us go on a toll road about 6 times a year...probably not worth the charge for a transponder. In this day and age they should be able to email you a bill, which you would pay electronically instead of having toll collectors...though, I guess it does give people jobs.

It costs next to nothing. 5 bucks for a "Mini" (sticker). 20 bucks for the portable. On the Skyway you get 43 cent discount each way, i.e. it would take just 6 round trips to Mini "pay for itself" and you get the time savings "free". It also gives you an opportunity to pay much less on the unmanned toll roads (Lee Roy Selmon, Veterans/Suncoast, new Gateway currently under construction), as those have an additional fee charged for those without the Sunpass. I think it's a no brainer.

The issue with the sunpass system is it's not compatible with the EZpass system. So while I can drive almost any tollway on my Ipass I cant in Florida. So when we drive down there we have to stop and pay cash rates.

stickguy

That was really annoying last time I was down there.

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

People like us go on a toll road about 6 times a year...probably not worth the charge for a transponder.

They charge for the transponder? That strikes me as odd. Up here the harbor bridges use transponders but they are free, with the only charge being the toll every time it is used. Makes sense b/c they want to encourage use of the transponders over cash.

You are right...I didn't realize Sun Pass's were free to get...you pay to load them up.

To use the 407 to get through Toronto it costs $4 a month for a transponder, and rates vary from about 35 cents a km (about 6/10ths of a mile) to 55 cents depending on time of day. It also costs $4 camera charge for taking a trip if you don't have a transponder and $1 a trip with a transponder. If you use the highway to go the full distance of about 65 miles across Toronto it will cost about $55 one way.
Trip Charges
With a Transponder
Toll charge
(107.964km @ 42.40 ¢/km)
$45.77
Toll charge
(30.358km @ 29.00 ¢/km)
$8.80
Trip charge $1.00
Camera charge $0.00
Total $55.58
Works well if you have to get across town to sign a $ 1 million deal.
About 20 years ago the government was desperate for money so sold the highway to a private company which keeps raising the rates and is making huge profits...that the province could have kept.

driver100

dino001 said:

driver100 said:

Yes, about half the people have them and zip through. People like us go on a toll road about 6 times a year...probably not worth the charge for a transponder. In this day and age they should be able to email you a bill, which you would pay electronically instead of having toll collectors...though, I guess it does give people jobs.

It costs next to nothing. 5 bucks for a "Mini" (sticker). 20 bucks for the portable. On the Skyway you get 43 cent discount each way, i.e. it would take just 6 round trips to Mini "pay for itself" and you get the time savings "free". It also gives you an opportunity to pay much less on the unmanned toll roads (Lee Roy Selmon, Veterans/Suncoast, new Gateway currently under construction), as those have an additional fee charged for those without the Sunpass. I think it's a no brainer.

Might consider it...but, for the 6 times we use it a year not sure if it is worth signing up. Maybe next year...might not even go across again. About the other tolls....try not to go to those places....traffic is a nightmare on those highways....should say more of a nightmare.

stickguy

That is obscene cost for a drive that long. Makes the NJ or PA turnpike seem like a bargain, and that is really hard to do!

suydam

venture said:

suydam said:

In PA the transponders were free. Since pretty much every highway there is a toll road, I’d certainly get one if I lived there. In PA I got one and opened an account when my daughter lived there, just visiting a few times a year.

The only toll roads in Pennsylvania are the Turnpike or extensions.

Sorry, I wasn’t being clear. In Florida it seems every highway has some toll on it at some point, so I’d get one if I lived there even part time. As for PA, I had to drive the entire length of the Turnpike to get from Ohio to Philly. Hence, the EZ pass, even for just a few visits a year.

henryn

Many people are not aware that Medicare isn't free, and the monthly cost is actually on a sliding scale, so that the rich pay more. And you have to remember that Medicare only covers 80%. If you are dead broke, you can get away with that. If you have any money (retirement savings, etc), you need a Medicare Supplement to cover the other 20%. My Medicare supplement runs me another $180 per month on top of Medicare itself.

So no, this isn't "free", but it is a great bargain.

dino001

sb55 said:

I think that there was a toll plaza about every 5-7 miles and it cost about $18.00 for that fairly short stretch. Not very tourist friendly for people who don't have the specific pass.

Tolls around Orlando are biggest ripoff in the state. They have their own Central Florida Expressway Authority and it's clearly not run to take more for less. The plaza positioning is to squeeze last drop from you. I checked out and 18 bucks seems unusually high. FL-417 bypass goes from I4 all the way to Sanford costs exactly half (9 bucks) cash. Even if you also used parts of Polk Parkway, but that would only add 2-3 bucks from the middle. I guess it's still possible if the map system guided you through the maze of those roads and made you hit all kinds of plazas on the way.

dino001

snakeweasel said:

The issue with the sunpass system is it's not compatible with the EZpass system. So while I can drive almost any tollway on my Ipass I cant in Florida. So when we drive down there we have to stop and pay cash rates.

I think they're "working" on it. BTW, doesn't Texas have its own thing, too? You also need to know that there will be fewer and fewer roads with cash toll lanes and soon enough all will be either Sunpass of be pay-by-plate, which ads another 20 cents to every transaction, so even occasional short visits in Florida justify purchasing a Sunpass, especially it doesn't expire and is transferable. If you fly in, the car rental yahoos rip you off even more with a daily service charge.

houdini2

explorerx4 said:

@houdini2,
Yard has a nice view of a state nature preserve area. Upstairs we have a 5x5 window that gives a pretty good view.
I didn't get a picture, but there was a big Tom that kept them moving in a group.
Didn't realize they could fly until I saw one do it!

They can definitely fly short distances. Playing golf a few years ago, a group of about 20 or so glided from trees beside the fairway, about 60 yards away, and landed almost at my feet. Amazing.

28firefighter

When I lived in PA I always had EZPass for going back and forth from school. If I recall, from Valley Forge on-ramp to Monroeville off-ramp on the Turnpike was about $30 or so. This was a decade ago though.

I also used it when driving to Ohio to see my now-wife - they implemented EZPass while she was living back home in Cleveland, so that made the drives a little easier. Before that I had to pay cash to get on the Ohio Turnpike.

Mr_Shiftright

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

People like us go on a toll road about 6 times a year...probably not worth the charge for a transponder.

They charge for the transponder? That strikes me as odd. Up here the harbor bridges use transponders but they are free, with the only charge being the toll every time it is used. Makes sense b/c they want to encourage use of the transponders over cash.

Here in California, the transponders are free. They even gave me two, one for the windshield and a nifty one that fits around the license plate.

venture

suydam said:

venture said:

suydam said:

In PA the transponders were free. Since pretty much every highway there is a toll road, I’d certainly get one if I lived there. In PA I got one and opened an account when my daughter lived there, just visiting a few times a year.

The only toll roads in Pennsylvania are the Turnpike or extensions.

Sorry, I wasn’t being clear. In Florida it seems every highway has some toll on it at some point, so I’d get one if I lived there even part time. As for PA, I had to drive the entire length of the Turnpike to get from Ohio to Philly. Hence, the EZ pass, even for just a few visits a year.

Ahhhh. OK.

Michaell

Here in Colorado we don't have transponders anymore; instead, you get a little sticker that goes on the lower left of the windshield. Free to acquire, just have to have a card on file to load up with toll amounts. Costs me around $8 to get to the airport from my house, one way. But, the trip is only about 25 minutes, versus 40-45 on non-toll roads. Very much worth it to me.

fintail

Weirdly enough, Canada has higher life expectancy (by 3 years), and exponentially smaller risk of losing everything you worked for due to a tragic medical diagnosis - all while spending less per capita. No system is perfect and no doubt there are issues there, but I don't personally know any Canadians (or anyone else in the developed world) demanding an American style system. I wonder why that is.

ab348 said:

Fin, the health care system here is run by govt, not just paid for by them, which makes a huge difference in how it performs. You have all of the problems of a massive bureaucracy and the resultant lack of flexibility, productivity and accountability that goes with that. Plus there is never enough money to keep up with the tech or even to maintain facilities properly, while closing some outdated facilities in locations that have been left behind by the population is tantamount to unthinkable.

You may not face medical bankruptcy here, but you may well die or have quality of life severely limited before that could happen anyway because of lack of proper and timely treatment. There is no free lunch.

fintail

WA charges $5-15 for transponders, depending on the type. An expense easily recouped by frequent users, as I think it gives a $2 discount on tolls.

28firefighter

I stopped getting the transponder stickers here in WA because they don't transfer from vehicle to vehicle. Instead I register my plates with GoodToGo and I pay a fractional premium over the transponder rate. Perfect given how infrequently I use the toll roads.

pensfan83

We don't travel toll roads a great deal but the convenience is more than worth the annual account fee. In addition I have one of our transponders setup with the airport parking authority to debit parking fees from the EZ-Pass balance.

henryn

Michaell said:

Here in Colorado we don't have transponders anymore; instead, you get a little sticker that goes on the lower left of the windshield. Free to acquire, just have to have a card on file to load up with toll amounts. Costs me around $8 to get to the airport from my house, one way. But, the trip is only about 25 minutes, versus 40-45 on non-toll roads. Very much worth it to me.

Time is the most valuable commodity we have. Anything we can do to buy free time is very much worth considering. You don't want to pay to use the toll roads? That's fine, your choice. Less congestion for those of us who are willing to pay.

In the greater Houston area, there are parts of town that are near impossible to get to without using a toll road. And many of the newer toll roads are accessible only to vehicles equipped with an EZTag.

And when I say "near impossible", I mean add 1 to 1.5 hours to your trip (one way).

ab348

fintail said:

No system is perfect and no doubt there are issues there, but I don't personally know any Canadians (or anyone else in the developed world) demanding an American style system. I wonder why that is.

Jumping to an extreme case does not help one's argument.

Many Canadians would be happier with a system that is a hybrid and allows some sort of flexibility to get care faster/better if there was some supplemental coverage or a private component. But that is called "jumping the queue" which is deemed somehow evil by those defenders of the state system.

jmonroe1

houdini2 said:

explorerx4 said:

@houdini2,
Yard has a nice view of a state nature preserve area. Upstairs we have a 5x5 window that gives a pretty good view.
I didn't get a picture, but there was a big Tom that kept them moving in a group.
Didn't realize they could fly until I saw one do it!

They can definitely fly short distances. Playing golf a few years ago, a group of about 20 or so glided from trees beside the fairway, about 60 yards away, and landed almost at my feet. Amazing.

And they like to sleep in trees which I found out first hand.

About 7 or 8 years ago my oldest Grandson (soon to be 17 and now driving) and I were on the deck. About 8 turkeys strolled into the yard which isn't a big surprise since they seem to always come around but what they did next surprised me because I never saw them do this before. In unison they took off, almost straight up like a helicopter, and landed in one of the two willow trees at the very end of my yard. It was Summer time and because of the leaves on the tree they made a heck of a racket getting to their landing spots. I mentioned this to a guy I worked with who is an outdoorsman of sorts and he said they like to sleep in trees to get away from predators. I didn't know there were any turkey predators in my hood but the turkeys must have thought otherwise.

Now flash back to when Grandson #1 was about 4 years old. We were sitting on the deck with Son #2 and his wife one Sunday evening. My Grandson's parents were still in the house talking to Mrs. j as she is cutting up some Summer fruit and putting it into a large bowl. Yes, they always come by to mooch a meal on Sunday's. Anyway, a group of turkeys come by and my Grandson is wondering what they are, so I told him. Then I said, "go over and pull a feather out of the tail of one of them and give it to me". He gives me a strange look but then he walks off the deck and starts to walk towards them slowly. Just then, Son #1 and DIL #1 walk out onto the deck. DIL #1 asks what her son is doing so I told her. She softly screams so as not to scare the turkeys and says, WHAT? Son #1 says, "let's watch and see how far he gets before they run off". When my Grandson gets about 15 feet from the turkeys, 2 of them look up from nibbling on whatever they seem to like in the grass and take a step towards him. That did it, he turned around and ran, and I mean he ran, straight onto the deck and into his mother's arms. As everyone is now laughing, Mrs. j comes out of the house with her bowl of fruit and puts it on the table. She asks what is so funny, so I told her. She looks at me and says, "why would you tell him to do that? What's wrong with you? ARE YOU CRAZY" ? I just shrugged my shoulders as if to say, 'I don't know. Maybe.'

That's as close as I'll ever come to wearing a bowl of Summer fruit.

jmonroe

snakeweasel

henryn said:

Many people are not aware that Medicare isn't free, and the monthly cost is actually on a sliding scale, so that the rich pay more. And you have to remember that Medicare only covers 80%. If you are dead broke, you can get away with that. If you have any money (retirement savings, etc), you need a Medicare Supplement to cover the other 20%. My Medicare supplement runs me another $180 per month on top of Medicare itself. So no, this isn't "free", but it is a great bargain.

where I work If I retire with more than 20 years of service they carry my insurance through retirement. So no need for a Medicare supplement.

snakeweasel

BTW, a sure sign of spring getting near, this week pitchers and catchers report.

jmonroe1

I have an EZ-Pass for both of our cars. It is too convenient not to. The last 8 years that I worked (as a consultant with my old employer) I found travelling the PA Pike for about 20 miles each way was too inconvenient not to have them. So after trying to teach the state a lesson for about 2 weeks, I decided I better get one and make my life easier. I worked with several people you lived not too far from me and although they had EZ-Pass most of them didn't want to spend the money travelling the Pike everyday like I did. So, they drove about 25 miles through a few smallish towns hitting many red lights and countless stop signs along with beating up their cars doing it. Whereas, I just bit the bullet, took the Pike, put the car in cruise and enjoyed my ride to and from work. Rain or shine Summer and Winter.

However, my cheap fellow employees would take the Pike on snow days (we don't get a whole lot of them) because it is well known that the Pike is plowed and salted when it snows and traffic usually moves along nicely on snow days.

I look at the cost to travel the PA Pike as a toll most of the time but come snow days I look at it as a plow and salt tax.

FWIW, @oldfarmer50 would NEVER pay to drive his cars through salt. I know that for a fact.

jmonroe

jmonroe1

snakeweasel said:

BTW, a sure sign of spring getting near, this week pitchers and catchers report.

And just as sure, the Pirates will be as awful as they have been for over 20 years. I just laugh about it now. No sense expecting things to change. I know the definition of being an idiot.

jmonroe

suydam

snakeweasel said:

henryn said:

Many people are not aware that Medicare isn't free, and the monthly cost is actually on a sliding scale, so that the rich pay more. And you have to remember that Medicare only covers 80%. If you are dead broke, you can get away with that. If you have any money (retirement savings, etc), you need a Medicare Supplement to cover the other 20%. My Medicare supplement runs me another $180 per month on top of Medicare itself.

So no, this isn't "free", but it is a great bargain.

where I work If I retire with more than 20 years of service they carry my insurance through retirement. So no need for a Medicare supplement.

Well, aren’t you lucky. That’s rarer than hens’ teeth these days.

houdini2

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

BTW, a sure sign of spring getting near, this week pitchers and catchers report.

And just as sure, the Pirates will be as awful as they have been for over 20 years. I just laugh about it now. No sense expecting things to change. I know the definition of being an idiot.

jmonroe

Several years ago, I think it was a Cubs game, first game of the season. After the first pitch, a guy in the stands holds up a big sign that said, "Wait until next year".

isellhondas

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

ab348 said:

bwia said:

How Much Gas Tax Adds to Cost of Filling Up

30. Massachusetts
• State gas tax: 26.5 cents per gallon.
• Gas price as of mid-Jan. 2019: $2.49 per gallon. (14th highest)
• State taxes as pct. of gas price: 10.7 percent (14th lowest)
• Annual miles traveled per driver: 12,265 (8th lowest)

29. Ohio
• State gas tax: 28.0 cents per gallon.
• Gas price as of mid-Jan. 2019: $2.06 per gallon. (16th lowest)
• State taxes as pct. of gas price: 13.6 percent (23rd highest)
• Annual miles traveled per driver: 14,873 (21st highest)
Read more at https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/02/05/gas-tax-state-what-costs-fill-up-your-car-across-country/38908491/

Well, let me tell you about where I live.

Here we have a 10 cent federal excise tax and a 15.5 cent provincial fuel tax. To that is added a 15% retail sales tax, which is calculated after those taxes are included in the price, so it is a tax on a tax.

Oh wait, that is all per liter!

Multiply everything by 3.78 (L/US gallon) and you can approximate the amount per US gallon.

Today here, RUG is $1.00 per liter. If you roll back the various taxes in that calculation, the actual no-tax cost of gas here right now is about 61 cents per liter or $2.32/US gallon. But add in the tax and it is $3.78 per US gallon, with taxes representing about $1.46 of that amount per gallon.

Welcome to Kanada.

WOW, and here in PA I thought we were being screwed.

I don't think anyone would blame you guys for changing the name of your country to Screwya or Taxada.

jmonroe

We do have "free" health care.........and that is worth something. I think of the extra money I pay for gas as insurance for medical care.

Are you serious? Do you really think your health care is FREE? Here in the US most of us were taught at an early age that there is no such thing as a free lunch. The rest have credit card debt that is out of sight.

jmonroe

It's called Socialized Medicine and it is far from "free"! Hard to even get in many cases!

sda

jmonroe1 said:

houdini2 said:

explorerx4 said:

@houdini2,
Yard has a nice view of a state nature preserve area. Upstairs we have a 5x5 window that gives a pretty good view.
I didn't get a picture, but there was a big Tom that kept them moving in a group.
Didn't realize they could fly until I saw one do it!

They can definitely fly short distances. Playing golf a few years ago, a group of about 20 or so glided from trees beside the fairway, about 60 yards away, and landed almost at my feet. Amazing.

And they like to sleep in trees which I found out first hand.

About 7 or 8 years ago my oldest Grandson (soon to be 17 and now driving) and I were on the deck. About 8 turkeys strolled into the yard which isn't a big surprise since they seem to always come around but what they did next surprised me because I never saw them do this before. In unison they took off, almost straight up like a helicopter, and landed in one of the two willow trees at the very end of my yard. It was Summer time and because of the leaves on the tree they made a heck of a racket getting to their landing spots. I mentioned this to a guy I worked with who is an outdoorsman of sorts and he said they like to sleep in trees to get away from predators. I didn't know there were any turkey predators in my hood but the turkeys must have thought otherwise.

Now flash back to when Grandson #1 was about 4 years old. We were sitting on the deck with Son #2 and his wife one Sunday evening. My Grandson's parents were still in the house talking to Mrs. j as she is cutting up some Summer fruit and putting it into a large bowl. Yes, they always come by to mooch a meal on Sunday's. Anyway, a group of turkeys come by and my Grandson is wondering what they are, so I told him. Then I said, "go over and pull a feather out of the tail of one of them and give it to me". He gives me a strange look but then he walks off the deck and starts to walk towards them slowly. Just then, Son #1 and DIL #1 walk out onto the deck. DIL #1 asks what her son is doing so I told her. She softly screams so as not to scare the turkeys and says, WHAT? Son #1 says, "let's watch and see how far he gets before they run off". When my Grandson gets about 15 feet from the turkeys, 2 of them look up from nibbling on whatever they seem to like in the grass and take a step towards him. That did it, he turned around and ran, and I mean he ran, straight onto the deck and into his mother's arms. As everyone is now laughing, Mrs. j comes out of the house with her bowl of fruit and puts it on the table. She asks what is so funny, so I told her. She looks at me and says, "why would you tell him to do that? What's wrong with you? ARE YOU CRAZY" ? I just shrugged my shoulders as if to say, 'I don't know. Maybe.'

That's as close as I'll ever come to wearing a bowl of Summer fruit.

jmonroe

I bet Mrs j chased you around that table too! You must like to stir up trouble. Lol

driver100

fintail said:

Weirdly enough, Canada has higher life expectancy (by 3 years), and exponentially smaller risk of losing everything you worked for due to a tragic medical diagnosis - all while spending less per capita. No system is perfect and no doubt there are issues there, but I don't personally know any Canadians (or anyone else in the developed world) demanding an American style system. I wonder why that is.

ab348 said:

Fin, the health care system here is run by govt, not just paid for by them, which makes a huge difference in how it performs. You have all of the problems of a massive bureaucracy and the resultant lack of flexibility, productivity and accountability that goes with that. Plus there is never enough money to keep up with the tech or even to maintain facilities properly, while closing some outdated facilities in locations that have been left behind by the population is tantamount to unthinkable.

You may not face medical bankruptcy here, but you may well die or have quality of life severely limited before that could happen anyway because of lack of proper and timely treatment. There is no free lunch.

I removed the parties so it wouldn't be political.

The vast majority of Americans, 70 percent, now support Medicare-for-all, otherwise known as single-payer health care, according to a new Reuters survey. That includes 85 percent of --------- and 52 percent of --------. Only 20 percent of Americans say they outright oppose the idea.