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  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,340

    Micheall....interesting to note about the different residuals for the different trim levels. Someone, somewhere is putting a ton of effort into coming up with the residuals to a level that granular. As houdini said, $5,000 over the course of the lease term isn't pocket change.

    It's been a long time since I last leased. One of my biggest complaints about leasing is you do due diligence, carefully research everything, make a good deal, and then get barraged with all the other fees to make the deal much less attractive. Thinking lease inception fees, disposition fees, cap cost reduction, security deposits, abnormal wear and tear fees (which is something of a voodoo science in and of itself), etc.

    Yeah....I'd like to hear how this plays out, too.

    The trim level thing is not limited to Jeeps. Take Audi, for example - many of their models come as Premium, Premium Plus and Prestige. Premium has a higher residual that Premium Plus, which itself is higher than Prestige. BMW and MB, however, only have one residual for each model.

    Some of the lease fees can be a bit over the top, I'll agree. What I've learned over the years:

    Acquisition Fee - imposed by the bank; cannot be waived. Some manufacturers allow the acquisition fee to be rolled into the cap cost with a slight increase in the money factor.

    Disposition Fee - also imposed by the bank, but waived if you buy/lease another car from the same manufacturer

    Cap Cost Reduction - also known as a down payment, this is optional, and, not recommended. Many of the national and regional advertised lease specials include some sort of cap cost reduction to get the low payment.

    Security Deposits - also optional, this is up front money you give to the bank that will 'buy down' the money factor. BMW, for example, allows up to 7 MSD (multiple security deposits) that will reduce the MF by .00049. For a BMW that stickers at $45K and a net cap cost of $41K, the MSD will reduce your pre-tax payment by a little over $33/mo. This works out to an 11.4% annual return on your investment over 36 months, as the MSD monies are returned to you at the end of the lease.

    Wear and Tear Fees - I've leased a number of cars over the years (Fords and a VW) and not once have I had any additional charges due at the end of the lease based on the condition of the vehicle. Now, if you have a tendency to trash your cars, inside and out, then yeah, you're responsible for it. But, for normal wear and tear (small scratches, slightly dirty carpet), you won't be penalized.

    Leasing is renting, plain and simple - you only pay for the part of the car you plan to use. There are some incredible lease deals going on right now .. I've seen folks lease $40K Infinities for under $400/mo with minimal out of pocket costs at lease inception.

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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,340
    driver100 said:

    Michaell said:

    driver100 said:

    Michaell said:

    nyccarguy said:

    @‌verdugo

    There could be one of a couple things going on here:

    #1 - they are bumping up the money factor on you. This is obviously unacceptable as you are an informed consumer with excellent credit.

    #2 - they are using a different bank other than Chrysler's Finance arm, which would explain the 50% residual as opposed to the 56% residual that @Michaell told you. Remember, the residual is set by the bank and CANNOT be altered by the dealership.


    Like @abacomike said, sometimes the manufacturers "play" with the numbers. A base Grand Cherokee 4 x 4 might have a 61% residual while a loaded Overland V8 might have a 56% residual. They might put a higher residual on a V6 GC vs. a V8 GC. Offers vary by region as well. Stand your ground & good luck. As always, keep us posted!

    While #1 is possible, I'm thinking more along the lines of #2 .. Jeep dealers have several banks available to them for leases (US Bank and Ally are just two). The problem is, we don't have their numbers to validate against. And, the other banks often have large lease rebates available to offset the higher numbers.

    And, I agree with the lower residuals for higher trim lines. Overland has a lower residual than a Limited. However, there is no difference in the numbers for V6 vs. V8. There are, however, different numbers for the diesel engine for the Grand Cherokee. And for 4x2 vs. 4x4.
    Is a V6 higher or lower than a V8? What is worth more for residual value, diesel or gas? I assume a 4X4 is worth quite a bit more than a 4X2? I guess color can't be a factor, or is it?

    For reference, here are the 36/15 lease numbers for the JGC Limited:

    4x4 gas - .00012 and 54%

    4x4 diesel - .00012 and 56%

    4x2 gas - .00016 and 53%

    4x2 diesel - .00016 and 55%

    Vehicle color or individual options do not affect the numbers. Neither does the V6 vs V8 engine choice for the gas models.
    Interesting! So, just to be clear, a higher residual will mean a lower monthly payment, but the buy-back price will be higher. And, does that mean you could get a more expensive car and actually pay less for it monthly, but, plan on not buying back at the end, and come out way ahead of the game?

    Exactly - you want a combination of a high residual and a low money factor for the best deal.

    Many people lease to get a more expensive car at a payment equivalent to buying a less expensive car and financing.

    Edmunds Price Checker
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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    edited February 2015

    And, does that mean you could get a more expensive car and actually pay less for it monthly, but, plan on not buying back at the end, and come out way ahead of the game?
    Yes, but it's usually not as good, as ads would like to believe, the reach is limited, a few thousands perhaps, all other things equal. 50% residual on 50k car will give you 25k to be paid over time, plus finance charges and fees, of course. 40 percent residual on 40k car means you pay 24k plus finance charges (which will be lower, as calculated on lower base). So you see there are limits.

    Luxury manufacturers often subsidize their sales by inflating residual by five or more percent, instead of giving you cash back to protect the brand perception. In other words, they'll take a hit when taking the car back and sell to the dealers, but on the books and ads the product still has the higher price. Plus, they have an opportunity to hit you with wear and tear, sell the car to you at perhaps less discounted price than dealer wholesale (not many would, though), or get extra fees on certification. In essence, they bring the sale today, but defer the cost and wait for new opportunities.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,501
    Wish me luck guys. I just submitted paperwork to refinance my house. Fingers crossed.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,388
    nyccarguy said:
    Wish me luck guys. I just submitted paperwork to refinance my house. Fingers crossed.
    Best of luck!

    2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger

  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    edited February 2015
    Thank you again (you'll hear me say that a few more times over the next couple of days.)

    Driver, this is a factory order, so I can't go to another dealer to pick another Jeep. However, if this deal doesn't play ball, I will get my deposit back and go to another deal. I don't need it right this minute, so I can wait another 5 weeks.

    If we were talking a difference of a few dollars, I would probably let it go. After all, my time is also worth money, but $130x36 is not pocket change.

    Hope to have this all sorted out soon and pick it up on Sunday.

    To be continued. B)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2015
    Anyone with better ideas on this question, please post. Thanks!

    (The prior owner obviously didn't lease!)
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    stickguy said:

    the thing that worries me about a lot of the small lots (different than your situation) is the quality of the units. the cheaper sales idea makes sense as long as the small guy has the access and can grab the good quality cars. I always thought the the dealers cherry picked the real good newer stuff off the manufacturer specific auctions.

    I guess though once you get into slightly older (so not CPO level) cars, it all depends on if they want to pay a little more to get better quality stock for the lots. I guess there is no reason that a mom and pop can't do that. The problem is, traditionally, a lot of them have gone with older/more miled up units to sell cheap.

    I would love Boom's lot, but I would really have to have a good reason to trust them!

    There are 4 sources where we (and most independent lots) get vehicles for inventory:
    -auctions
    -trade ins
    -brokers
    -directly from new car franchise stores

    Most of ours come from contacts the owners and I made in the car business. People move around, get promoted etc. so over time we have connections with sales managers at our stores. Most franchise dealers will not keep older off make units because they simply don't have space for them, and because of high overhead they won't make enough on such units to cover their required overhead, plus make a decent profit.

    The owner here drives to new car stores where they know sales managers to see what they took in on trade. He will pick out the nicest cars that he thinks will do well, and brings them to the lot.

    We also have contacts with brokers who go from dealer to dealer, buy specific cars and then call small lots to see who might be interested in them. This saves the selling dealer auction fees of having to send the car(s) to the auction. Sometimes a car will do better in one city neighbourhood than another, especially in a big metropolis with many suburbs with different buyer demographics.

    We have an independent mechanic shop close by where we take all of our cars (since we are too small to have a f/t mechanic on duty, and the shop inspects the car, fixes everything that needs attention and gives us an inspection report.

    We do the same for the few vehicles we do get from auction, or from brokers, or that come in on trades. If we do get something that's in poor shape, we'll appraise it accordingly and either scrap it (if it's old and too high mileage), or we'll wholesale it out as-is.

    Yes there will be dealers that might try to offload junk to the public, but our industry here is well regulated and any misrepresentation of vehicles results in fines and possible license suspensions for the dealer and sales staff.

    But it also depends on the car. I've worked at brand name franchise stores where issues came up with "premium used" vehicles, not because it wasn't checked properly, but because of the nature of the vehicle.

    I once sold a $35k pre owned Mercedes S550, that was out of factory warranty from a franchise new car store I worked at (not Mercedes store). It has been inspected, and checked, and even the sales manager was driving it for a while with no issues. Customers came and bought it, declined warranty and a few weeks later the transmission started acting up. Minimum cost to fix was $6000 (Mercedes needed to take the transmission apart to find out exactly what the problem was), or it could have been as high as $12000. The car was just covered with the dealer's pre owned basic powertrain warranty (I think 3 days/300kms). I let management deal with the issue and not sure what the end result was - but I think we ended up paying part of all of the repair costs).

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    stever said:

    Anyone with better ideas on this question, please post. Thanks!

    (The prior owner obviously didn't lease!)

    I answered the OP.

    We used to have to deal with screwy Carfaxes all of the time. Usually odometer related.

    Cars that had been in bad accidents had clean Carfaxes and cars that someone had barely tapped in a parking lot would have ACCIDENT REPORTED on the Carfax.

    Certainly better than nothing but far from perfect.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    boomchek said:

    stickguy said:

    the thing that worries me about a lot of the small lots (different than your situation) is the quality of the units. the cheaper sales idea makes sense as long as the small guy has the access and can grab the good quality cars. I always thought the the dealers cherry picked the real good newer stuff off the manufacturer specific auctions.

    I guess though once you get into slightly older (so not CPO level) cars, it all depends on if they want to pay a little more to get better quality stock for the lots. I guess there is no reason that a mom and pop can't do that. The problem is, traditionally, a lot of them have gone with older/more miled up units to sell cheap.

    I would love Boom's lot, but I would really have to have a good reason to trust them!

    There are 4 sources where we (and most independent lots) get vehicles for inventory:
    -auctions
    -trade ins
    -brokers
    -directly from new car franchise stores

    Most of ours come from contacts the owners and I made in the car business. People move around, get promoted etc. so over time we have connections with sales managers at our stores. Most franchise dealers will not keep older off make units because they simply don't have space for them, and because of high overhead they won't make enough on such units to cover their required overhead, plus make a decent profit.

    The owner here drives to new car stores where they know sales managers to see what they took in on trade. He will pick out the nicest cars that he thinks will do well, and brings them to the lot.

    We also have contacts with brokers who go from dealer to dealer, buy specific cars and then call small lots to see who might be interested in them. This saves the selling dealer auction fees of having to send the car(s) to the auction. Sometimes a car will do better in one city neighbourhood than another, especially in a big metropolis with many suburbs with different buyer demographics.

    We have an independent mechanic shop close by where we take all of our cars (since we are too small to have a f/t mechanic on duty, and the shop inspects the car, fixes everything that needs attention and gives us an inspection report.

    We do the same for the few vehicles we do get from auction, or from brokers, or that come in on trades. If we do get something that's in poor shape, we'll appraise it accordingly and either scrap it (if it's old and too high mileage), or we'll wholesale it out as-is.

    Yes there will be dealers that might try to offload junk to the public, but our industry here is well regulated and any misrepresentation of vehicles results in fines and possible license suspensions for the dealer and sales staff.

    But it also depends on the car. I've worked at brand name franchise stores where issues came up with "premium used" vehicles, not because it wasn't checked properly, but because of the nature of the vehicle.

    I once sold a $35k pre owned Mercedes S550, that was out of factory warranty from a franchise new car store I worked at (not Mercedes store). It has been inspected, and checked, and even the sales manager was driving it for a while with no issues. Customers came and bought it, declined warranty and a few weeks later the transmission started acting up. Minimum cost to fix was $6000 (Mercedes needed to take the transmission apart to find out exactly what the problem was), or it could have been as high as $12000. The car was just covered with the dealer's pre owned basic powertrain warranty (I think 3 days/300kms). I let management deal with the issue and not sure what the end result was - but I think we ended up paying part of all of the repair costs).
    Typical European car!

    On an older car one expensive repair can easily exceed the value of the car.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,121
    edited February 2015

    stever said:

    Anyone with better ideas on this question, please post. Thanks!

    (The prior owner obviously didn't lease!)

    I answered the OP.

    We used to have to deal with screwy Carfaxes all of the time. Usually odometer related.

    Cars that had been in bad accidents had clean Carfaxes and cars that someone had barely tapped in a parking lot would have ACCIDENT REPORTED on the Carfax.

    Certainly better than nothing but far from perfect.
    Good points. I know if I had any "minor" fender benders, I would ask the insurance company to send the check directly to me to get it fixed. That way, the body shops would deal in cash, directly with me, and as part of our business arrangement, the accident wasn't reported to the DMV (and in turn, showed a clean CARFAX).

    That said, if it's anything more than a minor sheet metal crease, to ONE panel, you're looking at thousands in repairs. In that case, I would not get involved. I would just let the repair shop deal directly with the insurance company given I would not want to tie up a lot of my own money and not have the insurance company's warranty for the repairs.

    This has been awhile ago, but I actually was trading in a vehicle that had some minor paint work done on the back quarter panel. The used car manager used a paint gauge to ascertain that there was indeed some work done to the car. As I'm likely to do, I was steadfast on my number. He gave me pushback because of the paint work. What he was perplexed about was the work didn't show up on the CARFAX. I told him that was because I paid for the repair out of my own pocket.

    We ended up not doing a deal since he insisted my trade was worth thousands less given his paint gauge test. I bought the identical car from one of his competitors the same day AFTER I explained the paint work that was done. With that dealer, the used car manager said he didn't care as long as it didn't show up on CARFAX.

    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,593
    verdugo said:

    Thank you again (you'll hear me say that a few more times over the next couple of days.)

    Driver, this is a factory order, so I can't go to another dealer to pick another Jeep. However, if this deal doesn't play ball, I will get my deposit back and go to another deal. I don't need it right this minute, so I can wait another 5 weeks.

    If we were talking a difference of a few dollars, I would probably let it go. After all, my time is also worth money, but $130x36 is not pocket change.

    Hope to have this all sorted out soon and pick it up on Sunday.

    To be continued. B)

    Verdugo, Please be patient, but what am I missing? How did you factory order a car and not know what the price was going to be? I may be a klutz or something, but, please explain. Or someone else explain what actually took place on this transaction.

    Also, it sounds like the dealer is kind of blackmailing you. This is the car you special ordered, now we can get whatever we want for it. I could be totally wrong, but what did I miss?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,340
    driver100 said:

    verdugo said:

    Thank you again (you'll hear me say that a few more times over the next couple of days.)

    Driver, this is a factory order, so I can't go to another dealer to pick another Jeep. However, if this deal doesn't play ball, I will get my deposit back and go to another deal. I don't need it right this minute, so I can wait another 5 weeks.

    If we were talking a difference of a few dollars, I would probably let it go. After all, my time is also worth money, but $130x36 is not pocket change.

    Hope to have this all sorted out soon and pick it up on Sunday.

    To be continued. B)

    Verdugo, Please be patient, but what am I missing? How did you factory order a car and not know what the price was going to be? I may be a klutz or something, but, please explain. Or someone else explain what actually took place on this transaction.

    Also, it sounds like the dealer is kind of blackmailing you. This is the car you special ordered, now we can get whatever we want for it. I could be totally wrong, but what did I miss?

    Are you referring to the sticker price or the negotiated selling price?

    I've got a deposit on a particular Subaru Outback that will be delivered to the dealer in the next few weeks. I know what the sticker price will be, but we haven't spoken of any selling prices yet - I'll deal with that once the car hits the lot.

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,593
    edited February 2015
    Michaell said:

    driver100 said:

    verdugo said:

    Thank you again (you'll hear me say that a few more times over the next couple of days.)

    Driver, this is a factory order, so I can't go to another dealer to pick another Jeep. However, if this deal doesn't play ball, I will get my deposit back and go to another deal. I don't need it right this minute, so I can wait another 5 weeks.

    If we were talking a difference of a few dollars, I would probably let it go. After all, my time is also worth money, but $130x36 is not pocket change.

    Hope to have this all sorted out soon and pick it up on Sunday.

    To be continued. B)

    Verdugo, Please be patient, but what am I missing? How did you factory order a car and not know what the price was going to be? I may be a klutz or something, but, please explain. Or someone else explain what actually took place on this transaction.

    Also, it sounds like the dealer is kind of blackmailing you. This is the car you special ordered, now we can get whatever we want for it. I could be totally wrong, but what did I miss?

    Are you referring to the sticker price or the negotiated selling price?

    I've got a deposit on a particular Subaru Outback that will be delivered to the dealer in the next few weeks. I know what the sticker price will be, but we haven't spoken of any selling prices yet - I'll deal with that once the car hits the lot.
    Oh, so this like you special order a car, but you don't know if you want it until you actually see it. So, you put a down payment on it, so you have first crack at it. Then, if you like it you start negotiating.

    Now, I think I get it. But, the dealer could blackmail you a bit. If you don't like their deal you have to start all over at another dealer...and wait another 5 weeks. Why not work out a price beforehand based on the price, and then you either take the car at the prearranged price, or get your deposit back? Seems to be too much left up in the air that could go wrong.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,340
    driver100 said:

    Michaell said:

    driver100 said:

    verdugo said:

    Thank you again (you'll hear me say that a few more times over the next couple of days.)

    Driver, this is a factory order, so I can't go to another dealer to pick another Jeep. However, if this deal doesn't play ball, I will get my deposit back and go to another deal. I don't need it right this minute, so I can wait another 5 weeks.

    If we were talking a difference of a few dollars, I would probably let it go. After all, my time is also worth money, but $130x36 is not pocket change.

    Hope to have this all sorted out soon and pick it up on Sunday.

    To be continued. B)

    Verdugo, Please be patient, but what am I missing? How did you factory order a car and not know what the price was going to be? I may be a klutz or something, but, please explain. Or someone else explain what actually took place on this transaction.

    Also, it sounds like the dealer is kind of blackmailing you. This is the car you special ordered, now we can get whatever we want for it. I could be totally wrong, but what did I miss?

    Are you referring to the sticker price or the negotiated selling price?

    I've got a deposit on a particular Subaru Outback that will be delivered to the dealer in the next few weeks. I know what the sticker price will be, but we haven't spoken of any selling prices yet - I'll deal with that once the car hits the lot.
    Oh, so this like you special order a car, but you don't know if you want it until you actually see it. So, you put a down payment on it, so you have first crack at it. Then, if you like it you start negotiating.

    Now, I think I get it. But, the dealer could blackmail you a bit. If you don't like their deal you have to start all over at another dealer...and wait another 5 weeks. Why not work out a price beforehand based on the price, and then you either take the car at the prearranged price, or get your deposit back? Seems to be too much left up in the air that could go wrong.

    Right .. plus, we have a trade in to be evaluated. There is a CarMax down the street from the Subaru dealer. When the Subaru dealers calls to tell me the car is in, I'll take the trade to CarMax for an evaluation. That gives me a number to work with on the trade, plus I've done my research here at Edmunds on the price of the new car.

    If we don't come to a deal, we get our deposit back and the wife continues to drive the Mazda. It's not that she doesn't like her current car, she just likes the Subaru more.

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Or another salesperson will sell it out from under you as they unload it from the truck. :'(
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,593
    Michaell said:

    driver100 said:

    Michaell said:

    driver100 said:

    verdugo said:

    Thank you again (you'll hear me say that a few more times over the next couple of days.)

    Driver, this is a factory order, so I can't go to another dealer to pick another Jeep. However, if this deal doesn't play ball, I will get my deposit back and go to another deal. I don't need it right this minute, so I can wait another 5 weeks.

    If we were talking a difference of a few dollars, I would probably let it go. After all, my time is also worth money, but $130x36 is not pocket change.

    Hope to have this all sorted out soon and pick it up on Sunday.

    To be continued. B)

    Verdugo, Please be patient, but what am I missing? How did you factory order a car and not know what the price was going to be? I may be a klutz or something, but, please explain. Or someone else explain what actually took place on this transaction.

    Also, it sounds like the dealer is kind of blackmailing you. This is the car you special ordered, now we can get whatever we want for it. I could be totally wrong, but what did I miss?

    Are you referring to the sticker price or the negotiated selling price?

    I've got a deposit on a particular Subaru Outback that will be delivered to the dealer in the next few weeks. I know what the sticker price will be, but we haven't spoken of any selling prices yet - I'll deal with that once the car hits the lot.
    Oh, so this like you special order a car, but you don't know if you want it until you actually see it. So, you put a down payment on it, so you have first crack at it. Then, if you like it you start negotiating.

    Now, I think I get it. But, the dealer could blackmail you a bit. If you don't like their deal you have to start all over at another dealer...and wait another 5 weeks. Why not work out a price beforehand based on the price, and then you either take the car at the prearranged price, or get your deposit back? Seems to be too much left up in the air that could go wrong.

    Right .. plus, we have a trade in to be evaluated. There is a CarMax down the street from the Subaru dealer. When the Subaru dealers calls to tell me the car is in, I'll take the trade to CarMax for an evaluation. That gives me a number to work with on the trade, plus I've done my research here at Edmunds on the price of the new car.

    If we don't come to a deal, we get our deposit back and the wife continues to drive the Mazda. It's not that she doesn't like her current car, she just likes the Subaru more.
    I still don't see why you couldn't lock in a price. This way, the dealer holds a lot more cards. You've waited 5 or 6 weeks for your car to come in, you've told all your friends you have ordered a new Suburu (which is something car salesmen love), then you go to see it, you like it, and most of your bargaining power has evaporated. Are you going to start all over again with another dealer for a few hundred dollars or even $1000? I think it would be more reasonable to lock in a price - and they know what your trade in will be worth 5 or 6 weeks later, and put down a bit of a down payment, say $100 or $200 which you will forfeit for their trouble in the unlikely event you don't take the car.

    Maybe I am wrong........but, it seems you a lot of trust in the hands of the dealer.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    OK - being dumb here. Looking reasonably soon at a new 2015 Prius III. For the life of me I can't find the list for MSRP and invoice of options. Just keeps sending me to dealers. The question is what those prices are for the solar roof package (sorry, roadburner) and remote start. A link to where those are would work fine.

    Meanwhile, as long as the lease gurus are at it take a shot at a 3 year lease (15K a year). We'd likely buy at the end of the lease. Right now I've got a price of $24.000 with the roof but not the starter.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    fezo said:

    OK - being dumb here. Looking reasonably soon at a new 2015 Prius III. For the life of me I can't find the list for MSRP and invoice of options. Just keeps sending me to dealers. The question is what those prices are for the solar roof package (sorry, roadburner) and remote start. A link to where those are would work fine.

    Meanwhile, as long as the lease gurus are at it take a shot at a 3 year lease (15K a year). We'd likely buy at the end of the lease. Right now I've got a price of $24.000 with the roof but not the starter.

    Look used -- same car but depreciation is massive. My 2010 IV runs perfect with 42k miles. Easy buy for 13k. Nobody wants them outside of the West Coast.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I have a couple of used ones in mind as a possibility.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Finding one with the sunroof is difficult.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    fezo said:

    Finding one with the sunroof is difficult.

    But profitable.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I'll tell you over here on the East coast they aren't going for $13,000. Even at fitzmall, which is usually pretty low. a 2010 IV is running $15,300. Of course no sunroof.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    fezo said:

    I'll tell you over here on the East coast they aren't going for $13,000. Even at fitzmall, which is usually pretty low. a 2010 IV is running $15,300. Of course no sunroof.

    There is a lot of give on that price if you deal hard. 2k off could be possible. With gas prices down -- they can't move these hybrids. The market is small -- people don't trust them. Some of these have been on the lots for 5 months. Good luck on your search.
  • ventureventure Member Posts: 3,168
    fezo said:

    OK - being dumb here. Looking reasonably soon at a new 2015 Prius III. For the life of me I can't find the list for MSRP and invoice of options. Just keeps sending me to dealers. The question is what those prices are for the solar roof package (sorry, roadburner) and remote start. A link to where those are would work fine.

    Meanwhile, as long as the lease gurus are at it take a shot at a 3 year lease (15K a year). We'd likely buy at the end of the lease. Right now I've got a price of $24.000 with the roof but not the starter.

    Solar sunroof is $1,500. http://www.toyota.com/efc/#!/build/step/package/year/2015/series/prius/model/1225/exteriorcolor/08S6/interiorcolor/FB40/packages/option1

    Remote start is $499. http://www.toyota.com/efc/#!/build/step/accessory/year/2015/series/prius/model/1225/exteriorcolor/08S6/interiorcolor/FB40/packages/option2/accessories/

    If they are the only options MSRP is $28,589.

    Here's where I started: http://www.toyota.com/efc/#!/build/step/model/year/2015/series/prius/model/1223

    2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2015
    There's a gold 2012 Prius for sale down the street from me. 22,500 miles, and it has the solar roof. Forget if it was a III or something else. They are asking $22,500 (TMV is more like $16k).

    They didn't get the memo (hasn't sold yet either and it's been FSBO on the corner for 2 weeks now).

    That said, Consumers Still Want Higher-Mileage Vehicles Despite Low Gas Prices, Study Says.

    My Kia salesguy tried to call me today while my wife had the phone. She answered after the 2nd ring but the salesperson had hung up (no idea how many rings the salesperson heard - I guess the number you hear may be different from what the caller hears). No message left either.
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,340
    fezo said:
    OK - being dumb here. Looking reasonably soon at a new 2015 Prius III. For the life of me I can't find the list for MSRP and invoice of options. Just keeps sending me to dealers. The question is what those prices are for the solar roof package (sorry, roadburner) and remote start. A link to where those are would work fine. Meanwhile, as long as the lease gurus are at it take a shot at a 3 year lease (15K a year). We'd likely buy at the end of the lease. Right now I've got a price of $24.000 with the roof but not the starter.
    Can you post your question in the Prius lease questions forum as well? That way, it will be easier for others to find the information.

    Toyota leases are notoriously difficult to figure out. First, the numbers are highly regional. Second, they don't residualize the entire MSRP like most manufacturers do. The dealers have to look at each stock number and figure out the residual based on the options on any particular car.

    That said, we do have some "base MSRP maximum lease residual percentages".  59% for Prius 3 for 36/15, with a .00001 MF (that would be .024% APR, for those of you scoring at home). If you can get the MSRP as well as the net cap cost, we can model the payment for you.

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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    driver100 said:

    Michaell said:

    driver100 said:

    verdugo said:

    Thank you again (you'll hear me say that a few more times over the next couple of days.)

    Driver, this is a factory order, so I can't go to another dealer to pick another Jeep. However, if this deal doesn't play ball, I will get my deposit back and go to another deal. I don't need it right this minute, so I can wait another 5 weeks.

    If we were talking a difference of a few dollars, I would probably let it go. After all, my time is also worth money, but $130x36 is not pocket change.

    Hope to have this all sorted out soon and pick it up on Sunday.

    To be continued. B)

    Verdugo, Please be patient, but what am I missing? How did you factory order a car and not know what the price was going to be? I may be a klutz or something, but, please explain. Or someone else explain what actually took place on this transaction.

    Also, it sounds like the dealer is kind of blackmailing you. This is the car you special ordered, now we can get whatever we want for it. I could be totally wrong, but what did I miss?

    Are you referring to the sticker price or the negotiated selling price?

    I've got a deposit on a particular Subaru Outback that will be delivered to the dealer in the next few weeks. I know what the sticker price will be, but we haven't spoken of any selling prices yet - I'll deal with that once the car hits the lot.
    Oh, so this like you special order a car, but you don't know if you want it until you actually see it. So, you put a down payment on it, so you have first crack at it. Then, if you like it you start negotiating.

    Now, I think I get it. But, the dealer could blackmail you a bit. If you don't like their deal you have to start all over at another dealer...and wait another 5 weeks. Why not work out a price beforehand based on the price, and then you either take the car at the prearranged price, or get your deposit back? Seems to be too much left up in the air that could go wrong.

    This makes no sense for either the buyer or the store.

    A customer special orders a car that they "might" buy?

    No store should be dumb enough to do this unless the car is a hot item that they have no fear will quickly sell to someone else.

    The deal should have been struck in writing with all numbers agreed to before this happened.

    Makes zero sense!
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,340
    Thank you again (you'll hear me say that a few more times over the next couple of days.) Driver, this is a factory order, so I can't go to another dealer to pick another Jeep. However, if this deal doesn't play ball, I will get my deposit back and go to another deal. I don't need it right this minute, so I can wait another 5 weeks. If we were talking a difference of a few dollars, I would probably let it go. After all, my time is also worth money, but $130x36 is not pocket change. Hope to have this all sorted out soon and pick it up on Sunday. To be continued. B)
    Verdugo, Please be patient, but what am I missing? How did you factory order a car and not know what the price was going to be? I may be a klutz or something, but, please explain. Or someone else explain what actually took place on this transaction. Also, it sounds like the dealer is kind of blackmailing you. This is the car you special ordered, now we can get whatever we want for it. I could be totally wrong, but what did I miss?
    Are you referring to the sticker price or the negotiated selling price? I've got a deposit on a particular Subaru Outback that will be delivered to the dealer in the next few weeks. I know what the sticker price will be, but we haven't spoken of any selling prices yet - I'll deal with that once the car hits the lot.
    Oh, so this like you special order a car, but you don't know if you want it until you actually see it. So, you put a down payment on it, so you have first crack at it. Then, if you like it you start negotiating. Now, I think I get it. But, the dealer could blackmail you a bit. If you don't like their deal you have to start all over at another dealer...and wait another 5 weeks. Why not work out a price beforehand based on the price, and then you either take the car at the prearranged price, or get your deposit back? Seems to be too much left up in the air that could go wrong.
    This makes no sense for either the buyer or the store. A customer special orders a car that they "might" buy? No store should be dumb enough to do this unless the car is a hot item that they have no fear will quickly sell to someone else. The deal should have been struck in writing with all numbers agreed to before this happened. Makes zero sense!
    Isell - in my case it was a car already allocated to the dealer. No special order. 

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    My friend did that when he special ordered a new 2015 C Class. No talk of negotiated price or trade. The dealer could have sold the car to anyone once it came in, because the pipeline was empty and the colors/options were good.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    So they have a VIN number on an incoming car

    I still can't see why they wouldn't have worked the deal and run you through finance to seal the deal but I guess they run a loose ship.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    There's not much risk of a specially ordered Subaru languishing on a dealer lot in Colorado either.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    The last time I was in Boulder I honestly think four out of every five cars was a Subaru!
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I've seen some dealers take a deposit on incoming units just to "board" a deal on a slow day. I've seen it many times, with a bunch of subjects on the paper:
    -subject to viewing vehicle
    -subject to trade
    -subject to wife
    -subject to financing
    -etc.....

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,340
    boomchek said:

    I've seen some dealers take a deposit on incoming units just to "board" a deal on a slow day. I've seen it many times, with a bunch of subjects on the paper:
    -subject to viewing vehicle
    -subject to trade
    -subject to wife
    -subject to financing
    -etc.....

    Let's review ...

    We've seen the color that's coming in - wife likes it

    Trade still to be evaluated

    Wife has test driven and approves

    700+ FICO for both of us

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  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I've got a guy who's calling me back on a deal I intentionally made a bit less than I think he can do. If he fools me and comes through great. If not this 12 looks very promising -
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    edited February 2015
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Gotta relearn my html. That car is as close to an exact match of what my wife wants as you're ever going to get.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Michaell said:

    boomchek said:

    I've seen some dealers take a deposit on incoming units just to "board" a deal on a slow day. I've seen it many times, with a bunch of subjects on the paper:
    -subject to viewing vehicle
    -subject to trade
    -subject to wife
    -subject to financing
    -etc.....

    Let's review ...

    We've seen the color that's coming in - wife likes it

    Trade still to be evaluated

    Wife has test driven and approves

    700+ FICO for both of us
    I know you're pretty serious, but I'm just saying that quite a few loose deals get logged just to make it seem like there's business happening.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,356
    I like the roof on that Fezo. I actually kind of like the Prius for some reason. Though I have never driven one. that might change my mind. But, If I got back in the market I would take a look at the Hybrid this time, especially if it was to be used by my daughter for going back and forth to college.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,356
    I have done in the past what Michael just did. Basically just picked out an incoming unit, and called "dibs" on it. though once I worked out a price. But, if you haven't seen the car, you can't really work a deal!

    so assuming the dealer honors their word, Michael gets a call when it arrives, and has a couple of days to get over there, look at it, and work out a deal. If they can't, it goes back to available. No risk to the dealer. They were getting that unit in regardless.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    @Fezo, Car looks great except one thing. Has all options, but plastic wheel covers? Maybe they came that way, but you might want to see if that's the case.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,593
    Michaell said:



    driver100 said:

    Michaell said:

    driver100 said:

    verdugo said:

    Thank you again (you'll hear me say that a few more times over the next couple of days.)

    Driver, this is a factory order, so I can't go to another dealer to pick another Jeep. However, if this deal doesn't play ball, I will get my deposit back and go to another deal. I don't need it right this minute, so I can wait another 5 weeks.

    If we were talking a difference of a few dollars, I would probably let it go. After all, my time is also worth money, but $130x36 is not pocket change.

    Hope to have this all sorted out soon and pick it up on Sunday.

    To be continued. B)

    Verdugo, Please be patient, but what am I missing? How did you factory order a car and not know what the price was going to be? I may be a klutz or something, but, please explain. Or someone else explain what actually took place on this transaction.

    Also, it sounds like the dealer is kind of blackmailing you. This is the car you special ordered, now we can get whatever we want for it. I could be totally wrong, but what did I miss?

    Are you referring to the sticker price or the negotiated selling price?

    I've got a deposit on a particular Subaru Outback that will be delivered to the dealer in the next few weeks. I know what the sticker price will be, but we haven't spoken of any selling prices yet - I'll deal with that once the car hits the lot.
    Oh, so this like you special order a car, but you don't know if you want it until you actually see it. So, you put a down payment on it, so you have first crack at it. Then, if you like it you start negotiating.

    Now, I think I get it. But, the dealer could blackmail you a bit. If you don't like their deal you have to start all over at another dealer...and wait another 5 weeks. Why not work out a price beforehand based on the price, and then you either take the car at the prearranged price, or get your deposit back? Seems to be too much left up in the air that could go wrong.

    This makes no sense for either the buyer or the store.

    A customer special orders a car that they "might" buy?

    No store should be dumb enough to do this unless the car is a hot item that they have no fear will quickly sell to someone else.

    The deal should have been struck in writing with all numbers agreed to before this happened.

    Makes zero sense!

    Isell - in my case it was a car already allocated to the dealer. No special order. 

    Please clarify a bit more;
    Did you put a deposit on the vehicle?
    Will you be offered first chance to buy it?
    What happens if you like the car, but they are charging too much?
    How long did you wait before the car came in?
    What happens if someone else walks in and buys the car - can they get out of the deal?
    Could there be a bidding war for the car?
    Do you know what you should pay for the car and what you expect to get for your trade in?

    Not sure I understand the concept??????

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,356
    It is just like walking in and negotiating on any car they have in stock. sales price, trade, etc. if the numbers work, you buy it. if not, you walk.

    all he really did was put down the deposit to keep them from selling it before he has a chance to see it in person (right of first refusal). No risk at all for the dealer. They probably like having a guaranteed shopper coming in a few weeks from now when it arrives!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    fezo said:

    Gotta relearn my html. That car is as close to an exact match of what my wife wants as you're ever going to get.

    That's a decent price for a IV CPO. You will love the keyless entry and start. Once my wife realized she never had to fish for her keys in her purse it was all over.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    I think Driver100 was the one who I remember recommending Michael Connelly's books. Since then, I have read all his books, and am currently reading 'The Burning Room'.
    Big news is, Amazon has made a Harry Bosch TV series.
    Do a search and you can watch the first episode.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    But, wouldn't she have to fish in her purse to find the keyless remote?

    I know keyless start is all the rage now but I don't understand why.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602

    But, wouldn't she have to fish in her purse to find the keyless remote?

    I know keyless start is all the rage now but I don't understand why.

    If you carried a purse full of "stuff", you would understand. ;)
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,356
    my wife is addicted to the keyless go too. No chance I ever get another car without it.

    ISell, not the fob. They one where you just need to be near the car. I doubt my wife has seen her keyfob in 2 years, it is buried so deep in her overstuffed purse.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    OK, I forgot some cars unlock themselves when approached and the key fob is nearby.

    Another one of those "extras" that I couldn't care less about just like auto headlights.

    I may be getting old but I can still turn on my own headlights!
This discussion has been closed.