Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

qbrozen

Since so many people here know a little bit about everything, it is storytime ...

Several years back, my father bought a lightly used 5th wheel camper. A really big one. I wish he had gotten one with an engine, but that's another story. Anyway, they tired of it rather quickly and he tried to sell it. After not having any luck, a man approached him who could not buy it outright but would, instead, take over the loan payments (while not actually taking the loan into his name). Yes, it was a stupid thing for my father to do, of course.

As you may recall, my father died unexpectedly in April. After much work, we tracked this guy down. He ducked us for a while, but after some threats, he finally gave us a call. I explained the situation and offered that he take on the loan. He refused. Ok, well, you can keep paying it and maybe they won't notice the actual note holder died, but don't be surprised when they come knocking. What then happens? The moron stops paying the very next month.

Bank sends a letter, we call and explain the situation and where the trailer now resides (at this guy's father's house). Longer story shorter, they attempt repossession but are unable to due to him living in it and the utility hookups. So... now what? I'm assuming my only course of action is to go to the local police and report it stolen. Any thoughts?

28firefighter

qbrozen said:

Since so many people here know a little bit about everything, it is storytime ...

Several years back, my father bought a lightly used 5th wheel camper. A really big one. I wish he had gotten one with an engine, but that's another story. Anyway, they tired of it rather quickly and he tried to sell it. After not having any luck, a man approached him who could not buy it outright but would, instead, take over the loan payments (while not actually taking the loan into his name). Yes, it was a stupid thing for my father to do, of course.

As you may recall, my father died unexpectedly in April. After much work, we tracked this guy down. He ducked us for a while, but after some threats, he finally gave us a call. I explained the situation and offered that he take on the loan. He refused. Ok, well, you can keep paying it and maybe they won't notice the actual note holder died, but don't be surprised when they come knocking. What then happens? The moron stops paying the very next month.

Bank sends a letter, we call and explain the situation and where the trailer now resides (at this guy's father's house). Longer story shorter, they attempt repossession but are unable to due to him living in it and the utility hookups. So... now what? I'm assuming my only course of action is to go to the local police and report it stolen. Any thoughts?

I wonder is it actually your problem or is it the banks problem?

jipster

explorerx4 said:

@jipster,
We had an 09 Escape with the 3.0. If I still have the service records, I will go through them.
Seem to remember something about valve timing solenoids, no guarantees I still have the records
My bad assuming the Milan was a 4 cyl.
I did see the throttle body was covered under a satisfaction program for 10 years/150k.

. Milan is the 6 cylinder with the 3.0. I couldnt find out much about those solenoids on the web. One diagram shows it on top of engine, other info says its under the valve cover.

I already bought a throttle body, but havent had a chance to install. I'll call dealership and see if they'll replace for free, return the one I bought. Thx.

tjc78

Tough spot on the camper. I would start with the police and see what’s next. Perhaps in this case they will facilitate the repossession?

I’m sure this guy has to leave it at some point and then you are only dealing with the utility hook ups. May need a PI work on your behalf to learn his schedule.

As for just leaving it, I guess that answer depends on how large your Dad’s estate is. They can come after the estate for the difference on value. Is it upside down or is there equity?

jipster

qbrozen said:

Since so many people here know a little bit about everything, it is storytime ...

Several years back, my father bought a lightly used 5th wheel camper. A really big one. I wish he had gotten one with an engine, but that's another story. Anyway, they tired of it rather quickly and he tried to sell it. After not having any luck, a man approached him who could not buy it outright but would, instead, take over the loan payments (while not actually taking the loan into his name). Yes, it was a stupid thing for my father to do, of course.

As you may recall, my father died unexpectedly in April. After much work, we tracked this guy down. He ducked us for a while, but after some threats, he finally gave us a call. I explained the situation and offered that he take on the loan. He refused. Ok, well, you can keep paying it and maybe they won't notice the actual note holder died, but don't be surprised when they come knocking. What then happens? The moron stops paying the very next month.

Bank sends a letter, we call and explain the situation and where the trailer now resides (at this guy's father's house). Longer story shorter, they attempt repossession but are unable to due to him living in it and the utility hookups. So... now what? I'm assuming my only course of action is to go to the local police and report it stolen. Any thoughts?

I'd report it stolen and talk to a lawyer. Sounds like this guy is a squatter now, could take months to have him evicted.

Seems to me your dads estate would still be responsible for making the payments. The moron's agreement was with your dad, not the bank.

jipster

A bolder approach...wait till the guy goes to work, hook the thing up to your truck...and drive off with it.

explorerx4

@jipster,
Couldn't find any records for the 09 Escape. I must have purged them when it went to one of the kids.

qbrozen

So, yes, the bank is coming after the estate, hence it has become our problem.

I have zero clue if there is equity. I have no way of knowing the trailer's value.

Not sure if this is an eviction process when it can't really be a home? That part is unclear. And there was certainly no rental agreement. I think one could argue a similarity to loaning a friend your car. If they start living in that car, does that then turn from theft to squatting?

I fear going onto private property to take what is yours is illegal. We tried talking to a trailer moving company and they refuse to go on private property without invite.

28firefighter

Then yes, talk to the police. They’re likely going to say it’s a civil matter, but you can try reporting it stolen as long as you give them full context.

driver100

tjc78 said:

Tough spot on the camper. I would start with the police and see what’s next. Perhaps in this case they will facilitate the repossession?

I’m sure this guy has to leave it at some point and then you are only dealing with the utility hook ups. May need a PI work on your behalf to learn his schedule.

As for just leaving it, I guess that answer depends on how large your Dad’s estate is. They can come after the estate for the difference on value. Is it upside down or is there equity?

Good comments on the trailer....this would be good to know " Is it upside down or is there equity?" Report to police may be a good place to start, but, my guess is you will need a lawyer....it is like when someone buys something but doesn't make payments. Also, what does the contract actually say, or was this some kind of loosey goosey deal? Might be able to repossess, but only a lawyer is going to be able to figure that one out.

stickguy

well, if it is a civil matter, then the estate has to sue him. Regardless of what happens it will likely be messy.

how much is the note? can always make payments temporarily. at least threaten the heck out of the guy (police, lawyers, the whole enchilada) to get him to start making payments again.

easiest resolution might be to sic lawyer on him, and give him the option to just buy it out and be done with it.

jipster

Lady across the street was squatting in her boyfriends house. Wouldn't move out, even after her utilities cut off. Took over 6 months to get her squatting rear out of the house,..which she left a total disaster.

If your guy was making regular payments, one would assume he had a job. That he's living in his dads yard...in a trailer down by the river, tells me he doesnt have much money.

laurasdada

explorerx4 said:

@laurasdada,
I think you are trying to send us a message, but for the life of myme, I can't figure what it could be.

Ooopsie, meant to post this to CCBA. Jag goes in for brake review tomorrow (warning message on screen of low pads, want to know how much longer I can go before...). I'll have to invest a few $$$ in the beauty come December (6 year maintenance, some stuff to replace, probably new battery, oil change, rotation, etc...), so I'm debating moving on to something newer and shinier. Problem is, I just love this car. Still get unsolicited comments on it; since I don't personally, it's my only ego boost!

qbrozen

Guy claims to be going through a nasty divorce so he is avoiding having any possessions. In any case, I’m hoping having it stolen means insurance kicks in. We know those people are ruthless, so maybe they’ll be happy to yank it out of there.

We have found no contract anywhere.

stickguy

well, that makes it easier for you. if the guy has no written contract, and you don't have one, then it is just his word which means nothing. so, send the cops out on the theft claim and hit up insurance.

If the cops are in the mood to tell him he can either hook it up to a truck and give it back, or hold out his hands for cuffs, that could work!

kyfdx

New Jersey? Don’t you have a “guy” for that?

qbrozen

kyfdx said:

New Jersey? Don’t you have a “guy” for that?

Unfortunately, me and my guy haven't spoken in a while. So I gotta be my own guy. Lucky for him, I've settled down in my old age. Trying to set a good example for my kids. But if, in the end, this winds up costing my mother money. ... well... fuhgettaboudit. nuff said.

cdnpinhead

Having read this thread and several others, isn't it wonderful how decent people are?

I've made an issue of pointing out to the few who will listen that every key on your ring and every password (all 67 of them, plus the "security questions") are monuments to the fact that today's society is beyond help -- no one is to be trusted. In the old days you could leave your car and house unlocked. Now I have a three-page file listing all the passwords I use.

Isn't life grand?

Well, yeah, considering the alternative, at least for now.

driver100

Hey Cdn, do you want me to keep your passwords on file....just in case you misplace them?

driver100

I am amazed at the good solid information you guys are sharing with qb. No contract could be a lifesaver.....report the trailer stolen and see what happens from there. Do you still possess the ownership papers though, or were they handed over......could be troubling if signed over to him. What a mess.

oldfarmer50

jipster said:

qbrozen said:

Since so many people here know a little bit about everything, it is storytime ...

Several years back, my father bought a lightly used 5th wheel camper. A really big one. I wish he had gotten one with an engine, but that's another story. Anyway, they tired of it rather quickly and he tried to sell it. After not having any luck, a man approached him who could not buy it outright but would, instead, take over the loan payments (while not actually taking the loan into his name). Yes, it was a stupid thing for my father to do, of course.

As you may recall, my father died unexpectedly in April. After much work, we tracked this guy down. He ducked us for a while, but after some threats, he finally gave us a call. I explained the situation and offered that he take on the loan. He refused. Ok, well, you can keep paying it and maybe they won't notice the actual note holder died, but don't be surprised when they come knocking. What then happens? The moron stops paying the very next month.

Bank sends a letter, we call and explain the situation and where the trailer now resides (at this guy's father's house). Longer story shorter, they attempt repossession but are unable to due to him living in it and the utility hookups. So... now what? I'm assuming my only course of action is to go to the local police and report it stolen. Any thoughts?

I'd report it stolen and talk to a lawyer. Sounds like this guy is a squatter now, could take months to have him evicted.

Seems to me your dads estate would still be responsible for making the payments. The moron's agreement was with your dad, not the bank.

Was there a written payment agreement? Then I’d agree that lawyers and eviction would be the only solution. But if this was a handshake agreement you can pretty much tell the police anything and have them remove him. Then hire someone to disconnect the utilities and tow it away.

I often see those take over payments offers on CL and wonder if they’re legal without the banks approval.

abacomike

I have to hand it to FPL (Florida Power and Light) for attempting to get ahead of the next hurricane to hit South Florida. A day doesn’t go by when I am on the road that I don’t see a group of FPL trucks replacing old wooden and thin concrete power line poles with hefty concrete poles. Tree-trimming is another activity I see them doing to keep tree limbs from potentially breaking power lines in strong winds.

Municipalities and the State and Counties have been replacing traffic lights that hang from cables with sturdy metal one-piece poles for several years now.

I know that there has been a push from government(s) to place power lines underground, however due to the fact that you hit water only 8-10 feet in this area, it can be impractical in many areas. My Condo community (over 5000 condo units) was built and developed with all utilities underground - but unfortunately we get our power and cable from transmission lines that are not underground.

The most terrifying result of a hurricane is the loss of power which can last for up to 5-10 days, if not longer. That means no AC, no running water due to powerful pumps shutting down, and the difficulty of finding a gas station for fuel that has generators pumping gas.

Since we are entering the mid-August through mid-October height of the hurricane season, I am always wary and anxious about the Eastern Atlantic and the Gulf of Mexico producing tropical cyclones which strengthen in the 85-90 degree waters. Got my fingers crossed!

qbrozen

driver100 said:

I am amazed at the good solid information you guys are sharing with qb. No contract could be a lifesaver.....report the trailer stolen and see what happens from there. Do you still possess the ownership papers though, or were they handed over......could be troubling if signed over to him. What a mess.

Bank has the title, with loan in my dad’s name. I have registration, insurance, loan papers, and original sales contract. The guy may have some agreement in his pocket that my dad signed but we have never seen it.

My estate lawyer has no idea what should/could be done.

qbrozen

abacomike said:

I have to hand it to FPL (Florida Power and Light) for attempting to get ahead of the next hurricane to hit South Florida. A day doesn’t go by when I am on the road that I don’t see a group of FPL trucks replacing old wooden and thin concrete power line poles with hefty concrete poles. Tree-trimming is another activity I see them doing to keep tree limbs from potentially breaking power lines in strong winds.

Municipalities and the State and Counties have been replacing traffic lights that hang from cables with sturdy metal one-piece poles for several years now.

I know that there has been a push from government(s) to place power lines underground, however due to the fact that you hit water only 8-10 feet in this area, it can be impractical in many areas. My Condo community (over 5000 condo units) was built and developed with all utilities underground - but unfortunately we get our power and cable from transmission lines that are not underground.

The most terrifying result of a hurricane is the loss of power which can last for up to 5-10 days, if not longer. That means no AC, no running water due to powerful pumps shutting down, and the difficulty of finding a gas station for fuel that has generators pumping gas.

Since we are entering the mid-August through mid-October height of the hurricane season, I am always wary and anxious about the Eastern Atlantic and the Gulf of Mexico producing tropical cyclones which strengthen in the 85-90 degree waters. Got my fingers crossed!

I installed a generator last year hooked to the natural gas line. A couple of weeks ago, the damned thing caught fire. That was an exciting few mins. It was the generator part itself, not the engine, that sparked and set the wiring ablaze. I suppose that’s what I get for buying a low-end model off ebay.

tjc78

@qbrozen

I think a visit from the Police may be a good start for a shakedown or maybe a certified letter from an attorney. I would start the pressure from various angles. You stated he is going through a divorce, that stress along with "ball busting" about the trailer may be enough for him to waive the flag and allow it to be re-possessed

That is how I would handle it for a little while.

imidazol97

@abacomike says, "Got my fingers crossed!"


I tried to find info about how frequent hurricanes were in Florida.
"On average, one to two hurricanes make landfall on the eastern coast of America every year, and of those, only 40 percent hit Florida. Since 1851, 37 hurricanes have made direct hits on Florida"

Lots of real data in these tables. The listings are all hurricanes not just those that impact Florida. The categories in the table that are >=3 in the last table I find most interesting. There's a pattern in those numbers and 2018 was "2" so I would expect another low year. Remember that only 40% of those hit somewhere in Florida.

Based on normal variation in that last tables 3 column, I'll predict 2 hurricanes and 0.8 might impact Florida somewhere north or south.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_hurricane_season

You could always put a generator on your balcony and have an electrician connect it to your service box. Or run a long cable to the parking lot and power the house from your car. LOL

I laugh about running an electric line from your car in to your condo, because there's a 4 lane divided highway on the northeast side of metro with 2 electrical lines stretched across it to a work area on the north side in a field. On the south side are electrical sources because of water wells for the city/county, so they ran power to the north side of the limited access road. Possibly to another water well being developed over there.

stickguy

agreed. The cops showing up because of the complaint could light a fire under him. An attorney letter (nicely threatening in unspecific terms), especially if it could impact the divorce, could also be very effective.

Possible that he figures with your dad gone, like many estate handlers, you just want it done and gone so might not be up for a fight, so he is bluffing for now, hoping you just write it off and move on. If so, once he sees you are going to come full court press on him, he might cave. If nothing else, easier to take a trailer than a house.

If you really want to be mean, track down the wife and use her as leverage!

graphicguy

benjaminh said:

A couple of days ago I posted a google collage of an exploration of an abandoned railway line. Across the US there has been a movement over the last 30 or so years to transform these abandoned rail lines into paved paths for people and bikes. Yesterday I was at one of these successful "Rails to Trails" transformations in Ohio, the Little Miami River Scenic Trail, which is about 80 miles long....

https://www.miamivalleytrails.org/trails/little-miami-scenic-trail

I went for a bike ride on it yesterday and went past the big abandoned factory pictured below. The railway bridges as you can see have been converted for bikes and pedestrians. If you double click on this you should be able to see some details if you want. The upper left photo of the butterfly bench is actually at the Krohn Conservatory in Cincinnati, which I visited right after the bike ride. It's a beautiful place with lots of different kinds of plants. The flowers in the lower right are from there. And my trusty TLX made this a pleasant trip with a fun audiobook and some tunes from siriusxm.

https://www.cincinnatiparks.com/krohn/

Great pics. Thanks!

Krohn Conservatory is one of Cincinnati’s gems.

I bike or hike around the Loveland bike trail. But, Voice of America park is near my home and they have a dog park for my “pooch”. They’re getting ready to open a pretty large dog park in Fairfield, from what I’ve heard. I’ll check that out.

There’s another trail that goes from Fairfield to Hamilton that runs along the Great Miami River. I like that one, too. There’s a micro-brewery in downtown Hamilton (Municipal Brew Works) that was built in the city’s old Municipal Building that overlooks the Great Miami and is near the outdoor concert venue there. They also allow dogs, which is pretty neat!

ab348

Of course the problem with someone like the trailer occupant @qbrozen is wrestling with is that a visit from the police to put a scare into him might just result in him unhooking the utilities, getting a tow vehicle, and taking off with it for parts unknown.

tjc78

No one can hide today unless he goes off the grid completely.

oldfarmer50

jipster said:

Lady across the street was squatting in her boyfriends house. Wouldn't move out, even after her utilities cut off. Took over 6 months to get her squatting rear out of the house,..which she left a total disaster.

If your guy was making regular payments, one would assume he had a job. That he's living in his dads yard...in a trailer down by the river, tells me he doesnt have much money.

If it’s on dad’s property doesn’t the father technically have control over it’s disposal? If you kid parks his car in your driveway and refuses to move it can’t you have it removed? Maybe he could be persuaded to tow it away (at your expense) to another location. Might be worth it to explain the situation to dad and insinuate that he could avoid being dragged into litigation by doing the right thing.

stickguy

Good point OF. Possession of stolen property charge?

imidazol97

As much as I hate to recommend attorneys, I think qbrozen needs an attorney familiar with estates. A long time practicing attorney has been through this before and will know how to balance using the police, etc., as needed.

imidazol97

Graphicguy, I believe, mentioned gasoline that is 100% gas a few posts back. It is available near his area in Trenton at Casey's General store, a fast market type station. They sell a high octane premium with ethanol and a slightly lower octane premium that is all gasoline.

When I went to Pigeon Forge last spring, a new gas station in Sevierville on south bank of French Broad River had a large sign that they sold fuel that is 100% gasoline. Maybe the name was Weibel... the goldfish have been around the bowl several times since April so I may be wrong.

kyfdx

imidazol97 said:

Graphicguy, I believe, mentioned gasoline that is 100% gas a few posts back. It is available near his area in Trenton at Casey's General store, a fast market type station. They sell a high octane premium with ethanol and a slightly lower octane premium that is all gasoline.

When I went to Pigeon Forge last spring, a new gas station in Sevierville on south bank of French Broad River had a large sign that they sold fuel that is 100% gasoline. Maybe the name was Weibel... the goldfish have been around the bowl several times since April so I may be wrong.

The closest one to me is in the St Leon area, off I-74, just across the state line.

roadburner

Last night my wife and I installed the roof rack and the bike carriers on the Clubman. I went with the Mini rack and carriers in order to avoid any fitment issues. The installation was relatively simple as the car has the optional roof rails, but it still took a couple of hours- primarily due to my insistence that everything be “right.” So far so good, the rack doesn’t look bad and it doesn’t create too much noise at speed.

stickguy

If it doesn’t fly off on the highway, you did a good enough job.

oldfarmer50

Q might find this helpful. Particularly the second answer.

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/sold-a-car-to-someone-that-stopped-making-payments-1715707.html

ab348

qbrozen said:

Guy claims to be going through a nasty divorce so he is avoiding having any possessions. In any case, I’m hoping having it stolen means insurance kicks in. We know those people are ruthless, so maybe they’ll be happy to yank it out of there.

We have found no contract anywhere.

Bank already tried to repo it though. They contract that out to repo agencies who are not known for being kind and understanding. I find it hard to figure why the utilities could not be disconnected since the bank is the owner. Even if the bank was successful in the repo I would think there would still be a shortfall after the repo sale that your estate would be responsible for. My concern now that they guy is aware he is under scrutiny and facing the loss of it is that he would trash the thing before just abandoning it as happens to many repo houses.

stickguy

Different circumstance. Normally it’s the owner that does it, so just a financial transaction. This case, if there is legal action for theft, can go after him for destroying it too, outside of the bank.

ab348

stickguy said:

Different circumstance. Normally it’s the owner that does it, so just a financial transaction. This case, if there is legal action for theft, can go after him for destroying it too, outside of the bank.

I don't understand what you are saying. With payments not being made to the bank they are the ones trying to repo it. QB is in a tough spot if the bank is already trying to take possession.

driver100

QB might want to talk to the bank first, to let them know there may be a delay in paying them, and an explanation of why. Just me, but I would report it stolen to the police first....before getting a lawyer involved, just to see if the guy has any paperwork....that might be enough to scare him. Might want to explain to the police the full story first though.

driver100

laurasdada said:

explorerx4 said:

@laurasdada,
I think you are trying to send us a message, but for the life of myme, I can't figure what it could be.

Ooopsie, meant to post this to CCBA. Jag goes in for brake review tomorrow (warning message on screen of low pads, want to know how much longer I can go before...). I'll have to invest a few $$$ in the beauty come December (6 year maintenance, some stuff to replace, probably new battery, oil change, rotation, etc...), so I'm debating moving on to something newer and shinier. Problem is, I just love this car. Still get unsolicited comments on it; since I don't personally, it's my only ego boost!

I didn't realize there was a low brake pad warning light....that is a nice feature, hope my E has it.

You are at the crossroads. Once you get past the brake pads you may want to sit in a new model, Jag or other car you are interested in. Find out the cost and what they will give you for yours. This is a good thing to do now, you aren't desperate for a new car, and you can say you just began researching.

Then figure out what the maintenance costs will be to bring your car up to date, and how much difference a new car will cost. Also depends whether you want this to be your last car or how many more cars you will want to buy.

There is no 100% guaranteed best answer, but, once you have the numbers you can decide what is the best option for you.

qbrozen

We did talk to bank and I brought the payments up to date yesterday.

driver100

So, you are making the payments, and he is living in your trailer home. I don't see how he can prevail, but, it may cost a fair bit for a lawyer. Hate low life losers who take advantage of people.

stickguy

I still like the cops idea. they work for free!

berri

Property rights just don't seem to be respected here anymore in our legislation and legal system.

abacomike

imidazol97 said:

@abacomike says, "Got my fingers crossed!"


I tried to find info about how frequent hurricanes were in Florida.
"On average, one to two hurricanes make landfall on the eastern coast of America every year, and of those, only 40 percent hit Florida. Since 1851, 37 hurricanes have made direct hits on Florida"

Lots of real data in these tables. The listings are all hurricanes not just those that impact Florida. The categories in the table that are >=3 in the last table I find most interesting. There's a pattern in those numbers and 2018 was "2" so I would expect another low year. Remember that only 40% of those hit somewhere in Florida.

Based on normal variation in that last tables 3 column, I'll predict 2 hurricanes and 0.8 might impact Florida somewhere north or south.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_hurricane_season

You could always put a generator on your balcony and have an electrician connect it to your service box. Or run a long cable to the parking lot and power the house from your car. LOL

I laugh about running an electric line from your car in to your condo, because there's a 4 lane divided highway on the northeast side of metro with 2 electrical lines stretched across it to a work area on the north side in a field. On the south side are electrical sources because of water wells for the city/county, so they ran power to the north side of the limited access road. Possibly to another water well being developed over there.

Condo association prohibits generators on the terraces. I had checked into that a while ago.

driver100

stickguy said:

I still like the cops idea. they work for free!

That's what I would try first, but, usually they won't resolve an actual legal matter....at least from any of the Hot Bench shows I have seen that were similar. The good news is judges do seem to feel people shouldn't get a benefit.....without paying for it - especially a place to live in.

oldfarmer50

Just thought I’d tell you guys that you were right about changing the oil on my Mustang after a year even though I put only 2000 miles on it during that time. Noticeable improvement in performance.

I always thought a car felt better after an oil change but wasn’t sure if it was real or a placebo effect.