Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

My LS-V8 was OK for the time I had it. It immediately followed my 350Z when I found out we were pregnant. It just wasn't very thrilling to drive. And 20mpg bugged me. But I LOVED the ventilated seats. I still can't figure out why that never caught on as standard fare in luxo cars across the board.

Didn’t that car have the same 3.9L motor Ford put in some Jags?

explorerx4

@oldfarmer50,
That 3.9 was a Jag motor put in a Lincoln. It was kind of British.
Other alternative was a 3.0 Duratec.

explorerx4

Since we are on the Lincoln topic, I'm taking one for a test drive tomorrow.
The dealership advertises 'Transparency'.
When I look at the MSRP on their website it was $750 higher than the actual bottom line sticker price, which included a $750 regional discount.
Not off to a good start, but I'm going to take a shot.
Need to keep up on my dealer interaction skills.

driver100

At least they were transparent about putting the $750 higher price on the website. They said they were transparent, not honest.

abacomike

qbrozen said:

My LS-V8 was OK for the time I had it. It immediately followed my 350Z when I found out we were pregnant. It just wasn't very thrilling to drive. And 20mpg bugged me. But I LOVED the ventilated seats. I still can't figure out why that never caught on as standard fare in luxo cars across the board.

I wouldn't own a car without those ventilated seats down here in South Florida - especially in the summer. I agree they should be standard on Luxury cars and SUV's. They also come in handy with your heated seats during the winter.

abacomike

driver100 said:

qbrozen said:

My LS-V8 was OK for the time I had it. It immediately followed my 350Z when I found out we were pregnant. It just wasn't very thrilling to drive. And 20mpg bugged me. But I LOVED the ventilated seats. I still can't figure out why that never caught on as standard fare in luxo cars across the board.

I hear one problem is they can short out or something if you spill a drink on them, and the liquid leaks through. Wouldn't want to spill my coffee and get 3rd degree burns on my buns.

I never drink coffee in my car - and can only recall one or two times I drank soda in the car.

When I was looking at the E450, they could not locate one with ventilated seats - it's an option obviously. But why wouldn't dealers order cars with ventilated seats down here in Florida? I would have to special order an E450 if I wanted that option.

Speaking of which, the 2021 E450 will have that new inline 6 with turbos developing over 400 horsepower. That is one car I might be interested in for November, 2020 - with ventilated seats of course.

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

qbrozen said:

My LS-V8 was OK for the time I had it. It immediately followed my 350Z when I found out we were pregnant. It just wasn't very thrilling to drive. And 20mpg bugged me. But I LOVED the ventilated seats. I still can't figure out why that never caught on as standard fare in luxo cars across the board.

I wouldn't own a car without those ventilated seats down here in South Florida - especially in the summer. I agree they should be standard on Luxury cars and SUV's. They also come in handy with your heated seats during the winter.

I’ve driven cars where someone left the cooling seats on high and it felt kind of creepy, like the seat was wet. I much prefer heated seats in winter. I suppose I might feel different in the Florida sauna.

oldfarmer50

Ever see a 2 door Ford Fusion?



Or does it even have doors?

explorerx4

@oldfarmer60,
I have cooled seats in my truck. Like you, I don't really like them.

stickguy

well, paint lines where the door cut would be!

houdini2

qbrozen said:

houdini2 said:

Well, the Mustang was a gigantic success when Ford put its body on a Ford Falcon, or maybe Pinto, so why not give it a try!

I know you were being facetious, but let's look at that anyway. The Futura 2-door hardtop was $2226, while the Mustang squareback was $2427 and base Falcon was $1996.

So, even compared to the Falcon, the Stang had 21.9% markup. Vs the Futura, it was only 9%. At $24,995 for the Escape vs $35,945 on the Corsair, that's a whopping 43.8% premium! The aforementioned TLX is 39.1% more expensive than the Accord; the ES350 is only 11% more than the Avalon; and the Q3 is 35.6% more than the Tiguan. Those are just a few I looked up for the heck of it.

Yes, but the Mustang was just a "new" Ford, it didn't change to a Mercury or Continental.

houdini2

oldfarmer50 said:

tjc78 said:

bwia said:

A $60,000 Ford Escape? Not quite. But rather this is a 2020 Lincoln Corsair, a baby Aviator, not quite but close. It looks good inside and out and a strong competitor to the GLC, RDX, BMW X3 and others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD6Eur1RUzE

I’m sure it will be very nice ... but when the heck will the fascination with SUVs end ?

Are sedans dead forever?

I agree, I don’t get it either.

SUV's are the new mini vans. Women love them, so they are here to stay. Anyone have any stats on % of women who drive SUVs vs men who drive them?

sda

After 2 Pilots, 1 CR-V and now a Q5 my wife is sold on this type of vehicle. She really likes the nimble handling, ride, refinement of the Q5. I still prefer a car.

abacomike

houdini2 said:

qbrozen said:

houdini2 said:

Well, the Mustang was a gigantic success when Ford put its body on a Ford Falcon, or maybe Pinto, so why not give it a try!

I know you were being facetious, but let's look at that anyway. The Futura 2-door hardtop was $2226, while the Mustang squareback was $2427 and base Falcon was $1996.

So, even compared to the Falcon, the Stang had 21.9% markup. Vs the Futura, it was only 9%. At $24,995 for the Escape vs $35,945 on the Corsair, that's a whopping 43.8% premium! The aforementioned TLX is 39.1% more expensive than the Accord; the ES350 is only 11% more than the Avalon; and the Q3 is 35.6% more than the Tiguan. Those are just a few I looked up for the heck of it.

Yes, but the Mustang was just a "new" Ford, it didn't change to a Mercury or Continental.

The Mercury Cougar (1967) was an offshoot of the 1967 Mustang. I had one - 3 speed manual on the floor.

stickguy

I prefer a station wagon or 5 door hatch (the style that looks more like a sedan). Much less of a choice there!

my wife too likes sitting up a bit higher, and not having to fall in and clamber out of the car.

qbrozen

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
That 3.9 was a Jag motor put in a Lincoln. It was kind of British.
Other alternative was a 3.0 Duratec.

What I could never understand is why it was 3.9 in the LS and Tbird but 4.0 in the S Type.

At the time, I drove both the Jag and LS. I liked the Jag a little better but decided to go with the Lincoln for lower repair costs. Of course, I didn’t keep it long enough to ever repair anything.

fintail

Only SUV I'd really want is a new G-Wagen, and as it would cost close to 150K, aint gonna happen as I seldom buy lottery tickets. I drive a wagon these days and love it, an ideal car,

stickguy

qbrozen said:

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
That 3.9 was a Jag motor put in a Lincoln. It was kind of British.
Other alternative was a 3.0 Duratec.

What I could never understand is why it was 3.9 in the LS and Tbird but 4.0 in the S Type.

At the time, I drove both the Jag and LS. I liked the Jag a little better but decided to go with the Lincoln for lower repair costs. Of course, I didn’t keep it long enough to ever repair anything.

my guess, marketing. Same reason the Mustang with a 4.9 was badged 5.0.

venture

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer60,
I have cooled seats in my truck. Like you, I don't really like them.

My son has cooled seats in the Jeep and/or the Landrover (I forget which one - maybe both). I don't like them either.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
That 3.9 was a Jag motor put in a Lincoln. It was kind of British.
Other alternative was a 3.0 Duratec.

What I could never understand is why it was 3.9 in the LS and Tbird but 4.0 in the S Type.

At the time, I drove both the Jag and LS. I liked the Jag a little better but decided to go with the Lincoln for lower repair costs. Of course, I didn’t keep it long enough to ever repair anything.

Maybe it’s like the the pre 2018 5.0 being not quite 5 liters and the post 2018 5.0 being a little bit more but both being called a 5.0L

venture

sda said:

After 2 Pilots, 1 CR-V and now a Q5 my wife is sold on this type of vehicle. She really likes the nimble handling, ride, refinement of the Q5. I still prefer a car.

I still like a car too while my wife hasn't had anything other than a van or SUV for a long time. My 7 month experience driving an Escape let me know that I'm not an SUV guy.

venture

@oldfarmer50

I ran into the sales manager at my Subaru dealer and asked him about the increase in the trade-in allowance. He said that after I left on Saturday he checked further and decided to raise the offer by $1,500.

The only problem was that nobody told me. Someone dropped the ball.

If we hadn't stopped in the following Monday to let my salesman know that we were on our way to the Honda place we would probably have a Pilot sitting in the garage. When the salesman pulled up the offer sheet on his computer it had the higher offer listed.

driver100

I think of a car as a fun vehicle....an SUV is a kids hauler or a work car. Some people buy them because of the height and the extra room, especially in the front seat. I like the lower center of gravity and cornering of a sedan, and I like a closed off trunk area, instead of riding with my junk, groceries etc.

bwia

Speaking of who's buying new SUVs and trucks, here is some demographics details for 2019.
When it comes to car ownership by age, buyers that are ages 25 to 54 purchase most new vehicles. SUV buyers tend to skew a bit older. Here’s a look at car and truck buyer demographics by age group.

New SUV Buyers by Age Group:
Age 24 and younger ...... less than 1%
Age 25 to 54 ..... 43%
Age 55 to 64 ..... 26%
Age 65 and up....... 31%

New vehicle by gender varies a lot. For example, the majority of new truck buyers (86%) are male, while SUV buyers are more evenly distributed

New SUV Buyers by Gender:
Female ..... 43%
Male .....57%

Source: https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2019/01/new-car-buyer-demographics-2019/

houdini2

venture said:

@oldfarmer50

I ran into the sales manager at my Subaru dealer and asked him about the increase in the trade-in allowance. He said that after I left on Saturday he checked further and decided to raise the offer by $1,500.

The only problem was that nobody told me. Someone dropped the ball.

If we hadn't stopped in the following Monday to let my salesman know that we were on our way to the Honda place we would probably have a Pilot sitting in the garage. When the salesman pulled up the offer sheet on his computer it had the higher offer listed.

If you came in and told them they had a deal, do you think that extra $1500. would have ever seen the light of day?

stickguy

I am not sure how they figure out the male/female split. By registration? Who they say the car is for? If I went out today and bought a new RDX, it would be in my wife's name (we keep a car in each name) and her car, even if she only appeared to sign the final papers.

ronsteve

driver100 said:

ronsteve said:

tjc78 said:

but when the heck will the fascination with SUVs end ?

Are sedans dead forever?

I was vaguely shocked when I stepped outside for a quick (non-smoking as I never have) break a while ago. With 9 people on duty today, our parking lot contained just 2 SUVs (my RDX and the boss's CR-V), 1 convertible, and SIX(!) sedans.

Maybe SIX sedans because that is what people are trading in....and buying the SUVs.

Ha! That's 9 vehicles driven by the 9 people that were working yesterday. No buying or trading going on because we're not in the car biz.

ab348

bwia said:

Speaking of who's buying new SUVs and trucks, here is some demographics details for 2019.
When it comes to car ownership by age, buyers that are ages 25 to 54 purchase most new vehicles. SUV buyers tend to skew a bit older. Here’s a look at car and truck buyer demographics by age group.

New SUV Buyers by Age Group:
Age 24 and younger ...... less than 1%
Age 25 to 54 ..... 43%
Age 55 to 64 ..... 26%
Age 65 and up....... 31%

That sub-25 demographic would seem to run counter to most CUV/SUV TV ads, many of which show sporty young people out in the wilderness.

stickguy

that just means under 25 don't buy that many cars out of the total population. And likely skew toward cars, because they are still cheaper.

ronsteve

stickguy said:

that just means under 25 don't buy that many cars out of the total population. And likely skew toward cars, because they are still cheaper.

All these stats really need some reflection of the overall sales figures for us to know what they actually mean!

driver100

ronsteve said:

driver100 said:

ronsteve said:

tjc78 said:

but when the heck will the fascination with SUVs end ?

Are sedans dead forever?

I was vaguely shocked when I stepped outside for a quick (non-smoking as I never have) break a while ago. With 9 people on duty today, our parking lot contained just 2 SUVs (my RDX and the boss's CR-V), 1 convertible, and SIX(!) sedans.

Maybe SIX sedans because that is what people are trading in....and buying the SUVs.

Ha! That's 9 vehicles driven by the 9 people that were working yesterday. No buying or trading going on because we're not in the car biz.

In that case all your employees must be over 54 if Bwias figures are accurate;
New SUV Buyers by Age Group:
Age 55 to 64 ..... 26%
Age 65 and up....... 31%

Yup, 6 to 3 makes it pretty accurate.

driver100

ab348 said:

bwia said:

Speaking of who's buying new SUVs and trucks, here is some demographics details for 2019.
When it comes to car ownership by age, buyers that are ages 25 to 54 purchase most new vehicles. SUV buyers tend to skew a bit older. Here’s a look at car and truck buyer demographics by age group.

New SUV Buyers by Age Group:
Age 24 and younger ...... less than 1%
Age 25 to 54 ..... 43%
Age 55 to 64 ..... 26%
Age 65 and up....... 31%

That sub-25 demographic would seem to run counter to most CUV/SUV TV ads, many of which show sporty young people out in the wilderness.

Sometimes they do that to win over that demographic....sometimes easier to try and convert than get people to switch brands.

carnaught

stickguy said:

I prefer a station wagon or 5 door hatch (the style that looks more like a sedan). Much less of a choice there!

my wife too likes sitting up a bit higher, and not having to fall in and clamber out of the car.

That also suits the young women around here for putting on their makeup in the morning while driving their way to work .

explorerx4

Got back form my foray to the car dealer to take a test drive.
We did talk numbers, In the end, no deal.
They brought a guy out who showed me some auction reports to support their first trade in offer
Negotiated a higher number and we still didn't come to an agreement,
I told the sales person their report started with cars having 26K and up miles. Mine only has 21k.
Lots of little stuff like that.
Once I said 'No Deal', they couldn't find my keys. HAHA!
I don't really think it was on purpose, they got them mixed in with a car about to be delivered.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

I am not sure how they figure out the male/female split. By registration? Who they say the car is for? If I went out today and bought a new RDX, it would be in my wife's name (we keep a car in each name) and her car, even if she only appeared to sign the final papers.

All our cars are in my name so how does that skew the stats?

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

bwia said:

Speaking of who's buying new SUVs and trucks, here is some demographics details for 2019.
When it comes to car ownership by age, buyers that are ages 25 to 54 purchase most new vehicles. SUV buyers tend to skew a bit older. Here’s a look at car and truck buyer demographics by age group.

New SUV Buyers by Age Group:
Age 24 and younger ...... less than 1%
Age 25 to 54 ..... 43%
Age 55 to 64 ..... 26%
Age 65 and up....... 31%

That sub-25 demographic would seem to run counter to most CUV/SUV TV ads, many of which show sporty young people out in the wilderness.

How do they factor in all the dogs who buy Subaru’s?

oldfarmer50

Must have shares in an oil company:

https://youtu.be/z2ieDAEPzeE

explorerx4

@oldfarmer,
Maybe the person was just a jerk.
One of my cars got keyed just after I had the rear fender repaired(repainted) in the parking lot at the movies.
No reason for it.

omarman

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

bwia said:

Speaking of who's buying new SUVs and trucks, here is some demographics details for 2019.
When it comes to car ownership by age, buyers that are ages 25 to 54 purchase most new vehicles. SUV buyers tend to skew a bit older. Here’s a look at car and truck buyer demographics by age group.

New SUV Buyers by Age Group:
Age 24 and younger ...... less than 1%
Age 25 to 54 ..... 43%
Age 55 to 64 ..... 26%
Age 65 and up....... 31%

That sub-25 demographic would seem to run counter to most CUV/SUV TV ads, many of which show sporty young people out in the wilderness.

How do they factor in all the dogs who buy Subaru’s?

Mark(et)ing their territory.

stickguy

My daughter was pushing the RDX, and I came back with labs drive Subarus, but you never saw one driving an Acura.

bwia

Just read a surprising fact, that for September, Chevy Equinox sales are up substantially. Over at GMC, Buick and Cadillac their small SUV sales were up as well. On other hand, company-wide
sales at Jaguar, Nissan, and Toyota fell precipitously. Go figure.

snakeweasel

ab348 said:

bwia said:

Speaking of who's buying new SUVs and trucks, here is some demographics details for 2019.
When it comes to car ownership by age, buyers that are ages 25 to 54 purchase most new vehicles. SUV buyers tend to skew a bit older. Here’s a look at car and truck buyer demographics by age group.

New SUV Buyers by Age Group:
Age 24 and younger ...... less than 1%
Age 25 to 54 ..... 43%
Age 55 to 64 ..... 26%
Age 65 and up....... 31%

That sub-25 demographic would seem to run counter to most CUV/SUV TV ads, many of which show sporty young people out in the wilderness.

I would think the sub 25 demographic doesnt have the funds to buy a new SUV and therefore gets a compact car or used car.

oldfarmer50

snakeweasel said:

ab348 said:

bwia said:

Speaking of who's buying new SUVs and trucks, here is some demographics details for 2019.
When it comes to car ownership by age, buyers that are ages 25 to 54 purchase most new vehicles. SUV buyers tend to skew a bit older. Here’s a look at car and truck buyer demographics by age group.

New SUV Buyers by Age Group:
Age 24 and younger ...... less than 1%
Age 25 to 54 ..... 43%
Age 55 to 64 ..... 26%
Age 65 and up....... 31%

That sub-25 demographic would seem to run counter to most CUV/SUV TV ads, many of which show sporty young people out in the wilderness.

I would think the sub 25 demographic doesnt have the funds to buy a new SUV and therefore gets a compact car or used car.

Many use Uber or rent cars for longer trips.

laurasdada

I'm not an SUV guy, perhaps tainted by driving an '02 Lexus RX300 too many times. Fine as a comfy, practical, mpg unfriendly, luxurious transportation appliance. But, a turning radius the size of Texas, slow, handling not a language well spoken there....dull...

But, I'm considering a Porsche Macan; if you want an entry level Porsche, and need some adult practicality, that's the one. I did drive one, quite enjoyed, will have to drive again, and the size is nice, if not as practical as others. BUt, I just couldn't shake the bus driver feeling I get sitting up high... no offense to bus drivers, of course.

I'll never say never, but I think I preferred the drive of the '20 Jag XE. Which is low...and I'm old. I either pulled a muscle or bruised my right lower rib after a sneezing fit Thursday. Ouch, I"m not kidding. And, my runner/skier knees let me know occasionally that it's a long way down into my XF...

driver100

omarman said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

bwia said:

Speaking of who's buying new SUVs and trucks, here is some demographics details for 2019.
When it comes to car ownership by age, buyers that are ages 25 to 54 purchase most new vehicles. SUV buyers tend to skew a bit older. Here’s a look at car and truck buyer demographics by age group.

New SUV Buyers by Age Group:
Age 24 and younger ...... less than 1%
Age 25 to 54 ..... 43%
Age 55 to 64 ..... 26%
Age 65 and up....... 31%

That sub-25 demographic would seem to run counter to most CUV/SUV TV ads, many of which show sporty young people out in the wilderness.

How do they factor in all the dogs who buy Subaru’s?

Mark(et)ing their territory.

Some car maker should appeal to cat owners

driver100

laurasdada said:

But, I'm considering a Porsche Macan; if you want an entry level Porsche, and need some adult practicality, that's the one. I did drive one, quite enjoyed, will have to drive again, and the size is nice, if not as practical as others. BUt, I just couldn't shake the bus driver feeling I get sitting up high... no offense to bus drivers, of course.
...

Some articles say the 2020 Escape looks like a Porsche Macon:

If imitation is the highest form of flattery, Porsche should be blushing over what Ford has done with its 2020 Escape. From the headlights to the overall silhouette, the all-new Escape takes on some very Porsche Macan-like features. Heck, even the side moldings and lettering on the rear deck look so Macan-like, it would be easy to mistake one for the other in the dark.

Some SUVs feel like buses, especially if you can't see a hood in front of you. Besides, SUVs are too practical....a car is made for driving, not hauling. Even the balance is right, long hood, short trunk, no attempt to maximize storage space. But, if I had trouble getting into a car, I would consider an SUV, and the Macon is very appealing.

ab348

I’ll have to wait and see one in person, but pics of the 2020 Escape seem to make it look too short for its height, sort of like a Chevy Trax.

fintail

Yeah, those proportions are awkward. Kind of reminds me of a LR Discovery (new style), which looks kind of squished into a too-short wheelbase, just a little off somehow.

Sandman6472

The ingress/egress of a small CUV/SUV can not be beat, I found just sliding over in my Tucson was quite easy and pain free, the best part for me. It was just a bit too big for me. But going forward, will look at other CUV's and could bu one if the size fits me better. Do enjoy sitting up a bit higher and getting out of say something like a Honda Civic is painful for me.
Luckily, we each also buy our own vehicles and they're in our own names as I would never tell my wife what to buy and wouldn't let her tell me. It's funny, but she's never driven my VW and when I had the Tucson, had to make her drive it once so she'd be familiar just in case she ever had to use it. I do drive hers every so often but only to get petrol or take it in for service. And since we buy our own, the price point we go by is strictly up to us. I generally spend a bit less but next time, that might change as really have no clue what to get.

venture

houdini2 said:

venture said:

@oldfarmer50

I ran into the sales manager at my Subaru dealer and asked him about the increase in the trade-in allowance. He said that after I left on Saturday he checked further and decided to raise the offer by $1,500.

The only problem was that nobody told me. Someone dropped the ball.

If we hadn't stopped in the following Monday to let my salesman know that we were on our way to the Honda place we would probably have a Pilot sitting in the garage. When the salesman pulled up the offer sheet on his computer it had the higher offer listed.

If you came in and told them they had a deal, do you think that extra $1500. would have ever seen the light of day?

Very unlikely.