Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50

venture said:

houdini2 said:

venture said:

@oldfarmer50

I ran into the sales manager at my Subaru dealer and asked him about the increase in the trade-in allowance. He said that after I left on Saturday he checked further and decided to raise the offer by $1,500.

The only problem was that nobody told me. Someone dropped the ball.

If we hadn't stopped in the following Monday to let my salesman know that we were on our way to the Honda place we would probably have a Pilot sitting in the garage. When the salesman pulled up the offer sheet on his computer it had the higher offer listed.

If you came in and told them they had a deal, do you think that extra $1500. would have ever seen the light of day?

Very unlikely.

I think that next time I buy a car I’m going to walk out even if they meet my price.

Just to see what happens.

I like that strategy of going back to “just tell them” I was on the way to a competitor. (I wanted a smiley face here but the system glitched).

driver100

ab348 said:

I’ll have to wait and see one in person, but pics of the 2020 Escape seem to make it look too short for its height, sort of like a Chevy Trax.

When my 2015 was totaled one of the rentals I had was a 2015 Ford Escape. It was a very competent rental, had lots of extras, felt pretty solid....but, it sure wasn't a "drivers" kind of car.....can't picture Roadburner buying one.
It really felt like a bus....big windshield, very little hood, you are sitting way forward over the front wheels. Although the write ups for a 2020 sound positive, I think the reality will be very different. Doubt if the Escape will match the feel of a Macon.
2015;

houdini2

oldfarmer50 said:

venture said:

houdini2 said:

venture said:

@oldfarmer50

I ran into the sales manager at my Subaru dealer and asked him about the increase in the trade-in allowance. He said that after I left on Saturday he checked further and decided to raise the offer by $1,500.

The only problem was that nobody told me. Someone dropped the ball.

If we hadn't stopped in the following Monday to let my salesman know that we were on our way to the Honda place we would probably have a Pilot sitting in the garage. When the salesman pulled up the offer sheet on his computer it had the higher offer listed.

If you came in and told them they had a deal, do you think that extra $1500. would have ever seen the light of day?

Very unlikely.

I think that next time I buy a car I’m going to walk out even if they meet my price.

Just to see what happens.

I like that strategy of going back to “just tell them” I was on the way to a competitor. (I wanted a smiley face here but the system glitched).

You sound like Rodney Dangerfield. "Anyone who meets my price, I would never do business with".

qbrozen

oldfarmer50 said:

venture said:

houdini2 said:

venture said:

@oldfarmer50

I ran into the sales manager at my Subaru dealer and asked him about the increase in the trade-in allowance. He said that after I left on Saturday he checked further and decided to raise the offer by $1,500.

The only problem was that nobody told me. Someone dropped the ball.

If we hadn't stopped in the following Monday to let my salesman know that we were on our way to the Honda place we would probably have a Pilot sitting in the garage. When the salesman pulled up the offer sheet on his computer it had the higher offer listed.

If you came in and told them they had a deal, do you think that extra $1500. would have ever seen the light of day?

Very unlikely.

I think that next time I buy a car I’m going to walk out even if they meet my price.

Just to see what happens.

I like that strategy of going back to “just tell them” I was on the way to a competitor. (I wanted a smiley face here but the system glitched).

Reminds me of when we bought our Pilot. Tried to make a deal on an Envoy but they weren’t hitting my number, so we walked. Told the wife we’d go test drive the new Pilot. On the way to Honda, the GMC salesperson called to say they’d meet our price. (Why the hell they waited for us to be 10 mins down the road, I don’t know.) Wife said we’d call them back after driving the Pilot. Turned into an even bigger mistake for the GMC dealer because the Pilot was so much better that they wouldn’t have been able to give us an Envoy at that point.

sda

I wish I had done that recently when I bought the Q5. I did walk because they wouldn’t agree to providing a second key fob. About 10 minutes down the road they called and said we had a deal. Knowing how disappointed my wife was that I walked, I agreed. Happy wife, happy...

driver100

Reminds me of when we bought the 2013 A4. The BMW dealer was $2000 shy on my trade-in. Wanted to test another dealer, test drove an A4, liked it better, gave me what I wanted for my trade-in, we liked the A4 more, and it cost $9000 less than a BMW 328. When we got home there was a message from BMW guy on the answering machine...call me when you get home, the appraiser will come up on your trade-in (probably by $500). The salesman told me the A4 was going to be completely revamped next year.....turned out not to be true!

Do I trust the salesman. No, but if I want a BMW next time I would give him a chance. I would say this after checking out prices - Give me the best price for the new BMW, and the best price possible on my trade-in, and if it isn't an incredible price, the lowest price I have researched, you will never see me again.

abacomike

There are several factors and/or variables that affect when, where and how we buy cars. These factors or variables are interdependent upon each other - if one variable is not known or controlled by the buyer, the other 2 variables are meaningless.

One variable is knowing what your trade is worth. There are several ways to determine this within a few hundred dollars - CarMax will usually offer wholesale value or a few hundred more for your car on an outright purchase. Another avenue would be Manheim auction values - several members here on this site have access to Manheim. Others would include the NADA black book, Blue Book, etc.

The next variable would be to determine what you are willing to pay for the new car considering optional equipment, transportation cost (around $950) and various and sundry fees. You can acquire this knowledge several ways - Edmunds (build a car model with options on their site which results in average pricing for the equipped vehicle, invoice, and MSRP) is a great source for this as are TruCar, Cars.com, and many other sites. I add $250 to the invoice once I subtract any incentives or trunk money available to the dealer or consumer as well as the $699-$899 dealer fees. I just add sales tax and DMV fees for registration and tags.

Another variable is where you are going to buy the car. That is not always easily determined. This is because a dealer 25 miles away might be $300 less than the dealer around the corner from you. You also weigh how you were treated as a customer, the condition of the showroom and service department, availability of loaners, etc. I personally would be willing to pay a few hundred more for car at a dealer that treated me professionally and courteously - also a dealer that is 1 mile from me vs. a dealers 25 miles from me.

Finally, the last variable is "WHEN" is the best time to buy a car? At some dealerships that are high volume, the end of the month or end of the year is the best time. At low to moderate volume dealerships, there is really no best time - it all depends upon your own research and manner in which you approach the process. I have found that the first few days of the month are also good times to buy a car because dealers want to start the month off with a bang, so to speak.

Shopping for a car once you have determined trade value, MSRP with options, invoice, incentives, etc. is usually a bit tedious because you need to be flexible. Why flexible - because the dealer may not have a car in stock or on its way from the manufacturer or on order that you would accept - such as the wrong color exterior or interior, a few options more or a few options less than your ideal choice. But dealers are ALWAYS more flexible on pricing for cars or SUV's they have in stock or on their way to the dealership. You must keep that in mind when getting ready to pull the trigger.

I ended up leasing my S450 at a dealership that is 49 miles from my Condo vs. the dealership 2 miles from me where I service the car. The difference in price was over $5,000 on the cap cost when compared to three more local dealers. I just caught the dealership at the right time - they also offered me the best cash value for my trade by $2500.

In conclusion, the more variables you can control in the car-buying process, the better deal you will get. But when the price and conditions are right, you must be willing to pull the trigger at the right time. Quite frequently, your crazy offer to a dealship on a new vehicle (after a bit of negotiating) will be met - but good for only a short period of time - like NOW! That is what a dealership loves to hear - a customer who is ready, willing and able to purhcase a car NOW - not tomorrow or next week or next month. They are much more willing to be flexible when they have a "...bird in the hand, not 2 in the bush..." so to speak.

venture

Excellent comments Mike. Thanks.

venture

I just finished showing Mrs. Venture how Waze works with Apple Car Play in her Ascent. (After cleaning out the rabbit that was in her iPhones charge port so the cable would stay in).

I suspect factory navigation is going to be a hard sell for car makers. I will admit that I do like being able to just speak the place I want to go to the navigation in my Legacy without wires and extra bother, but I'm not sure it is worth the extra initial cost plus updates.

driver100

I have a good built in GPS in the E400. But, you can't beat WAZE for letting you know there is a cop up ahead, an accident, a dead animal on the road, and it tells you if a traffic light has cameras.
Does anyone know how it knows there is a cop car ahead, or a red light camera?

Michaell

driver100 said:

I have a good built in GPS in the E400. But, you can't beat WAZE for letting you know there is a cop up ahead, an accident, a dead animal on the road, and it tells you if a traffic light has cameras.
Does anyone know how it knows there is a cop car ahead, or a red light camera?

Crowdsourcing.

Other WAZE users post the information they see for others to benefit from.

oldfarmer50

Just had the system throw me out and when I tried to sign back in I was only able to register for a new account. It wanted me to set up a profile and everything. After several unsuccessful attempts it let me back in normally. Weird.

driver100

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

I have a good built in GPS in the E400. But, you can't beat WAZE for letting you know there is a cop up ahead, an accident, a dead animal on the road, and it tells you if a traffic light has cameras.
Does anyone know how it knows there is a cop car ahead, or a red light camera?

Crowdsourcing.

Other WAZE users post the information they see for others to benefit from.

Really.....people report there is a police car ahead,.......it knows exactly how far ahead....as in 2.5 miles.

sda

oldfarmer50 said:

Just had the system throw me out and when I tried to sign back in I was only able to register for a new account. It wanted me to set up a profile and everything. After several unsuccessful attempts it let me back in normally. Weird.

I had the same experience when I was going to use my Surface to include an article I thought would be of interest. Normally Edmunds gives the selection on the bottom by signing in as existing user. I gave up fearing I’d make a mess of things. My I-pad remained signed in so no issues yet. I just need to learn how to cut and paste on this thing, which I do from my Surface.

ab348

I haven't been able to post a local picture from my PC or use an emotorcon from the pulldowns in weeks now on either PC or on the iPad, browser choice makes no difference. We had a brief period where things started working a month or two back but now its all gone pear-shaped again.

I'm a member over at a golf forum (Golfwrx) and they moved to Vanilla back in March. It has been a total disaster.

abacomike

ab348 said:

I haven't been able to post a local picture from my PC or use an emotorcon from the pulldowns in weeks now on either PC or on the iPad, browser choice makes no difference. We had a brief period where things started working a month or two back but now its all gone pear-shaped again.

I'm a member over at a golf forum (Golfwrx) and they moved to Vanilla back in March. It has been a total disaster.

Same here. I used to be able to post pics from my iPhone right to this site - but I cannot do it now. I used to be able to use the site's emoticons - not now. I have to use my own emoticons. That goes for my PC as well.

But we've had issues with this for years - nothing is going to change - we just go with the flow, I guess.

explorerx4

I am able to post pictures when using Chrome as a browser, but not IE(Edge).

imidazol97

Pict posting check:

Posted with Chrome Windows 10
Cadillac parked at edge of car show at local casino.

imidazol97

Pict posting check:

Posted with Chrome Win10 on second hp laptop.

I go to many car shows and cruise ins. But there are some that I avoid like this one
that's tied to an annual festival with 4-500 cars parked along streets. The problem is
all the happy tipper folks who come out to wander around. It's impossible to get a good
photo of a worthy car. Walking is irritating because Mable is talking to Mildred and
slowly moving along.

abacomike

imidazol97 said:

Pict posting check:

Posted with Chrome Win10 on second hp laptop.

I go to many car shows and cruise ins. But there are some that I avoid like this one
that's tied to an annual festival with 4-500 cars parked along streets. The problem is
all the happy tipper folks who come out to wander around. It's impossible to get a good
photo of a worthy car. Walking is irritating because Mable is talking to Mildred and
slowly moving along.

Reminds me of local art and food festivals. To be quite honest, I abhor large crowds of people like the one showed above. Not just because of slow moving people, but also because of the ease of transmission of viruses and flu between people - especially this time of year (Fall). One of the major reasons I avoid flying in my advanced years.

I am very susceptible to viruses. I used to get pneumonia frequently - but I avoid large crowds of people and small enclosed areas where I can pick up a flu bug. Down here, we hate the influx of tourists - knowing full well that tourists and snowbirds keep our economy booming without the need for a State Income Tax. Thank heavens for all the casinos, too, and the billions of dollars they pay into the state coffers in taxes.

abacomike

imidazol97 said:

Pict posting check:

Posted with Chrome Windows 10
Cadillac parked at edge of car show at local casino.

What year Cadillac is that - 1954 or 1955?

driver100

License says 1442!

ab348

Mid-50s Cadillac front ends all look the same to me. I never cared much for that design language.

imidazol97

IIRC 1955 60 Special. Note the narrow centerpost.

driver100

Neighbors down the street had one when I was a kid....always think of them as mobster cars. But, the people down the street were very nice (as far as I know) real estate people (but maybe that meant cement shoes).

stickguy

Driver, I don't use Waze, but the way I understand how they do it is the app has icons on the screen, for stuff like accident, radar trap, etc. When you pass one, you tap the right symbol, and it get registered to that spot. Enough people do the same, and it counts.

I agree about the OEM navi. The interface in the TLX looks like a hand held video game from 1998 compared to Google Maps on the iPhone.

but, it comes in handy when I want to see the map but don't need directions (like when I know what road I need and generally where to go, just need to see what roads are coming up. I can just push the maps button and it pops right up. I normally never plug the phone in (just sits in my pocket) unless I need to use google maps to navigate, or I have to charge it.

roadburner

The OEM navigation systems in the X1 and M235i work well and still look modern- and I really like the Real Time Traffic Information- I can even set the systems to make route changes on the fly to accomodate traffic issues. In contrast, the Clubman's nav system looks like it was cribbed from a C64.

abacomike

roadburner said:

The OEM navigation systems in the X1 and M235i work well and still look modern- and I really like the Real Time Traffic Information- I can even set the systems to make route changes on the fly to accomodate traffic issues. In contrast, the Clubman's nav system looks like it was cribbed from a C64.

What I particularly like about the OEM NAV system on my car is the ability to use the App on my phone to send a destination to my car. Also, if there is an accident, construction or traffic delay on my route the computer reroutes me and alerts me of the reason for the rerouting using the system's voice control.

When I bring the car in for its B Service in a few weeks, they update my computer and the NAV system by downloading it right to the car. New roads, streets and routes are updated.

sda

I have yet to take the time to program the Navi in the Q5. But it is handy and has a crisp but somewhat small display. Without subscribing to Audi Connect it still shows
road speed limits, and road delays, accidents, etc. It will allow you to zoom in/out and will provide an explanation such as serious accident, all lanes blocked on I 77 S at Tyvola.

roadburner

abacomike said:

What I particularly like about the OEM NAV system on my car is the ability to use the App on my phone to send a destination to my car. Also, if there is an accident, construction or traffic delay on my route the computer reroutes me and alerts me of the reason for the rerouting using the system's voice control.

When I bring the car in for its B Service in a few weeks, they update my computer and the NAV system by downloading it right to the car. New roads, streets and routes are updated.

I can send addresses to my cars as well; I really like that feature.

stickguy

that is why Car play is so nice. I can do any route planning on the phone, and when I get in the car just plug it in and go.

nyccarguy

A friend of mine used to drive an M5. During one of the many times it was in for service, he kept calling BMW assist from the loaner and telling them to send him to different adult entertainment establishments. He took a screen shot of the “previous destinations” & it was hysterical. I only wish he could have gotten to see the looks on the face of the next person.

driver100

Thanks for explaining how WAZE works. But, how do people know they are going through a light where there is a red light camera? WAZE told us we were coming up to a one.

stickguy

those are known so always in the system.

driver100

Sounds like WAZE could save on fines......detecting cop cars and red light cameras. Sometimes the car GPS gives us a slightly different route than WAZE, seems to me they take turns giving the better route.

bwia

abacomike said:

imidazol97 said:

Pict posting check:

What year Cadillac is that - 1954 or 1955?

One can't complain about poor visibility or safety concerns in this caddy. The curb feelers perhaps was an upgrade comparable to todays front and side cameras. Even the door handles are high tech and the car runs on leaded gasoline. No catalytic coverter needed. I wonder what was the MSRP when new?

stickguy

Waze to me has a problem being too popular. When the highway backs up, so many people get notified of alternate local street route and take it, that those roads quickly jam. Different apps project the future better than others.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

Waze to me has a problem being too popular. When the highway backs up, so many people get notified of alternate local street route and take it, that those roads quickly jam. Different apps project the future better than others.

But then the original route clears up quicker. It would balance out eventually.

stickguy

Which is why I usually tell my wife to just stay on 295 instead of getting stuck in backroad traffic.

snakeweasel

bwia said:

abacomike said:

imidazol97 said:

Pict posting check:

What year Cadillac is that - 1954 or 1955?

One can't complain about poor visibility or safety concerns in this caddy. The curb feelers perhaps was an upgrade comparable to todays front and side cameras. Even the door handles are high tech and the car runs on leaded gasoline. No catalytic coverter needed. I wonder what was the MSRP when new?

An educated guess would be they started between $3,500 to $4k and went up from there depending on body style and options.

snakeweasel

Saw the BMW Genius Saturday, I had figured out most things either by reading the manual or just playing around with the car. However she was able to answer a few questions and clear up a couple of things I wasn't quite sure of. Overall it was a good experience.

Afterwards we took a drive in the country and went apple picking. It was a good day.

tjc78

WAZE did me well on Saturday snaking me through two developments avoiding a backup due to an accident.

bwia

In a Massachusetts affluent town, north of Boston, WAZE directed traffic is banned during morning and evening rush hours. Don't know how they are enforcing this but it is a good idea.

ab348

bwia said:

In a Massachusetts affluent town, north of Boston, WAZE directed traffic is banned during morning and evening rush hours. Don't know how they are enforcing this but it is a good idea.

Answer: they aren't. Just another govt ban that is generally meaningless.

snakeweasel

bwia said:

In a Massachusetts affluent town, north of Boston, WAZE directed traffic is banned during morning and evening rush hours. Don't know how they are enforcing this but it is a good idea.

The only possible way to ban it would be to make certain turns illegal during rush hour.

Such as on my normal route into work there is a traffic light where traffic does back up and it will take you three or four cycles to get through. To prevent people from driving through residential areas to avoid the light all the side streets have no right turns during rush hours.

snakeweasel

ab348 said:

bwia said:

In a Massachusetts affluent town, north of Boston, WAZE directed traffic is banned during morning and evening rush hours. Don't know how they are enforcing this but it is a good idea.

Answer: they aren't. Just another govt ban that is generally meaningless.

Well they do have a point, WAZE can and does sent more traffic down roads that were not designed for high volumes. Some residential roads at times will see so much traffic that residents cant even leave their driveways. One time I was kept from making a turn on a residential intersection due to an unending line of cars rerouted due to an accident.

nyccarguy

bwia said:

In a Massachusetts affluent town, north of Boston, WAZE directed traffic is banned during morning and evening rush hours. Don't know how they are enforcing this but it is a good idea.

They did that in Fort Lee & a few other towns in NJ right on the other side of the GW Bridge. Certain streets are for local residents only. They enforce it too with BIG, flashing signs, & a traffic enforcement officer.

stickguy

at least one town in north Jersey, up near the GW Bridge, did this. I think they had cops set up at certain intersections. Not sure if they passed an ordinance about it, or just did it as a traffic safety effort (same as if there was an accident and they blocked off a road). they had a terrible problem with people going down small, narrow residential streets and creating total gridlock. And probably not saving any time either!

carnaught

My $.02. I like Waze but if you aren’t on a high allowance or unlimited data plan, it uses up a fair amount of data and battery memory on one’s smartphone. I have found traffic alert quite worthless unless involved in the process of navigation routing. When I’ve tried to find out why my highway traffic was moving so slowly, I’d get a warning of slow moving traffic .

driver100

stickguy said:

Waze to me has a problem being too popular. When the highway backs up, so many people get notified of alternate local street route and take it, that those roads quickly jam. Different apps project the future better than others.

That's a Yogi Berra-ism. No one wants to use it any more because it has become too popular.