Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

bwia

Michaell said:

Question is - if the dealer splits the difference and comes back at $30,700, will Jip take it?

No, he will not. He is not a serious buyer. He is simply stringing us along down a rabbit hole. Quite frankly, @jipster is not ready to buy, lease or rent. He needs to put his finances in order before pulling the trigger.

28firefighter

Shots fired!

suydam

I’m enjoying the saga, as I can’t be out at dealerships now. I’m living vicariously! It will be fun to see what @jipster ends up with!

driver100

But, if he buys, we got nothing else going on.......

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

Oil at $11.12 a barrel? What the heck is going on? I know demand is way down, but $11 a barrel? Not very good for world economies.

Besides, even if gasoline drops to $.79 (RUG) and $1.10 (PUG) a gallon, who can take advantage of those low prices? My tank is full and has been for almost 2 weeks.

Oil prices are not the big worry for world economies. World economies are going to have a hard time recovering from being shut down, the longer they are shut down the longer they will take to recover.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

28firefighter said:

PUG up here at Costco was $2.59/gallon when I filled up this weekend - I put a tank of PUG through the Outback periodically and since it has been sitting, now seemed as good a time as any. It was last filled up 7 weeks ago and it has gone 275 miles in that time.

I filled with top tier PUG on Friday for $2.77. I think the stations are all colluding to maintain prices. There are a few indie stations selling regular for $1.99 but most of them are stuck at about $2.15.

Some of the prices can be blamed on high NY taxes but at $11/bbl. the prices aren’t anywhere near the sub $1 prices of the 1990s when oil was around $12/bbl.

Remember that the price per barrel of oil is only one of the costs involved it the price of a gallon of gas. There is the cost of transporting the oil, refining it, other chemicals involved in the refining method, transporting the finished product, labor and a ton of other things. Those costs have not dropped to 1990s level so I seriously doubt we will see sub $1 gas.

jipster

@driver100 Thx. Dont worry. I bought one of those 40 gallon Arctic coolers the other day. Will hold a lot of subs for when I hit the dealerships again.

I'm actually getting more pressure to buy from my wife than any salesman. I told her my Edmunds advisors are saying don't pull the trigger till I'm ready.
She replied, "Who?"

@Michaell Nope. I won't meet in the middle. Ive already crept up enough as it is. 30 big ones is it.

@suydam Thx. I'm curious as to what I will end up with as well.

Don't worry @bwia , I'm gonna get you guys a car if its the last thing I do.

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

Oil is now selling at -$1.43 a barrel - in other words, oil producers will pay "you" $1.43 to take a barrel of oil off their hands. Never seen this before.

I’m pumping my pond dry and filling it with a few thousand barrels. I’ll make money on both ends.

And as usual the Simpsons foresaw the future again:

https://youtu.be/am4wXKLxjxw

oldfarmer50

jipster said:

Just emailed sales manager $30k otd would do it.

Don’t let them bump you. It’s a buyers market.

explorerx4

I see that Ohio just cancelled the rest of the school year.
Going to be a while before everything opens back up.

graphicguy

abacomike said:

$4.00 a barrel for oil? This is a significant and ominous occurrence as it relates to the world economy. Something serious is about to happen and it ain't good!

Oil is a commodity...always has been. The times they've tried to artificially propped it up have eventually backfired. If the demand isn't there, it isn't there. They can't limit production too much, as the cost of producing will go up as they start losing the economy of scale while prices stay down. That's an even greater recipe for disaster.

I kind of expected the economy was overheated the past 2-3 years, so we were due for a "reassessment". The whammy is it wasn't expected that the deficit would be so huge, and that the economy would come to a screeching halt.

So unfortunately, the businesses that planned for a downturn after the crisis in 2007-2008, perhaps can weather it. Those that didn't, well, things aren't going to look too rosy for them.

The good news, other businesses and markets will rise up in their place.

graphicguy

@jipster ...why do I get the distinct feeling you're going to do what your wife feels you should do and buy what she likes?

oldfarmer50

bwia said:

Michaell said:

Question is - if the dealer splits the difference and comes back at $30,700, will Jip take it?

No, he will not. He is not a serious buyer. He is simply stringing us along down a rabbit hole. Quite frankly, @jipster is not ready to buy, lease or rent. He needs to put his finances in order before pulling the trigger.

Daaaaaaaaaaaamn!

stickguy

driver100 said:

But, if he buys, we got nothing else going on.......

Second hand reports About my sister looking at Subaru’s wont get us too far. Jip really is carrying the team here!

graphicguy

explorerx4 said:

I see that Ohio just cancelled the rest of the school year.
Going to be a while before everything opens back up.

Not much to cancel....there were only 2 months left in the school year, and they're already making plans to start early next Summer/Fall.

imidazol97

explorerx4 said:

I see that Ohio just cancelled the rest of the school year.
Going to be a while before everything opens back up.

I wonder if we'll get a refund on the school taxes we pay in our property tax along with the part that's in income taxes and sales taxes? Since the schools aren't open, including the colleges, the teachers and overpaid administrators shouldn't be profiting. I wonder if Gov. DeWine has considered that. He's still following the guidance from the group that wants to prolong this closing of lots of small businesses to hurt the economy. I was reading today about more and more data that many people have had the virus in Santa Clara county, CA. 50 to 85 times the number of cases ill enough that they were found positive via testing. And then there's Sweden.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/a-little-more-light-in-a-vast-sea-of-viral-darkness/

stickguy

jipster said:

@driver100 Thx. Dont worry. I bought one of those 40 gallon Arctic coolers the other day. Will hold a lot of subs for when I hit the dealerships again.


@suydam Thx. I'm curious as to what I will end up with as well.

Don't worry @bwia , I'm gonna get you guys a car if its the last thing I do.

Well, might be heresy, but IMO you should end up with whichever car you like the best, and will enjoy living with for the next 10-12 years. As long as it fits under whatever the real budget cap is. And if need be, pull out the patented Driver100 amortization rationalization schedule.

stickguy

Are they actually canceling school, or just doing like NJ and doing virtual learning as long as it takes? At this point might as well finish out the year that way.

stickguy

Imid, I’m sure there are a lot more people that got infected (heck, I think me and my wife had it, but no proof until we all get antibody tests). Which just proves how infectious it is. The part that matters the most is how many serious cases there are. That’s what all the restrictions are trying to smooth out.

explorerx4

@grapghicguy,
That means people are going to be staying home with their kids for a couple of extra months, not getting back to their regular schedule.

pensfan83

My BIL whose office is in downtown Cinci doesn't expect he or his group will be back in the office until August at the earliest and was already informed he won't be doing any travelling until the 4th quarter at the earliest.

I myself don't expect to be back in the office until at least June, maybe July and don't expect to be travelling either until much later this year.

benjaminh

jipster said:

Just emailed sales manager $30k otd would do it.

That would be a really good deal on a really nice car.

As you know, imho the TLX is overall a better car than the Accord. If you really like the TLX best it might be worth going a little higher?

But the Accord with the single touchscreen has an easier to learn AA/CP system. And given that you're coming from an SUV the slightly larger trunk of the Accord, along with the slightly greater legroom for backseat passengers, might be considerations.

And the Mazda 6 is a very good car too!

All best wishes with whatever car works out.

stickguy

I do still like these. Room to shave the price a bit, likely extra incentives, and zero % financing for 5 years makes it even cheaper. Comparable to an Accord EX In this trim. Very nice, upscale interior too.

https://www.subaruofsterling.com/new/Subaru/2020-Subaru-Legacy-sterling-va-b4d1c8960a0e0adf1dab4777401a3626.htm

28firefighter

I'm a big fan of the new Legacy XT Touring.

driver100

Jip, if for some reason (ha ha) they say NO.....ask THEM to work it out to see what the best deal would be on a lease...to see if overall that could come out to $30k. Might as well make them work their a$$s off.

driver100

explorerx4 said:

@grapghicguy,
That means people are going to be staying home with their kids for a couple of extra months, not getting back to their regular schedule.

Never mind their regular schedule, what about their lives after living with their kids for 3 months?

abacomike

Hit 97 degrees this afternoon - broke record for highest April temperature ever and highest low temperature of 80 degrees. I cannot believe the heat and humidity so early in the spring. Been running my AC 24/7 since March 1st - earliest ever.

It's downright murder down here.

fintail

And the serious likelihood of deaths being under reported along with cases.

I like the talk about not making things political, but then going for pieces by the National Review/Victor Davis Hanson, who are by far not neutral sources.

Maybe relevant to those in OH

stickguy said:

Imid, I’m sure there are a lot more people that got infected (heck, I think me and my wife had it, but no proof until we all get antibody tests). Which just proves how infectious it is. The part that matters the most is how many serious cases there are. That’s what all the restrictions are trying to smooth out.

explorerx4

Depending where you live, your area may still be trending up the curve.
NYC seems to be trending down, but Boston is trending up.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

I do still like these. Room to shave the price a bit, likely extra incentives, and zero % financing for 5 years makes it even cheaper. Comparable to an Accord EX In this trim. Very nice, upscale interior too.

https://www.subaruofsterling.com/new/Subaru/2020-Subaru-Legacy-sterling-va-b4d1c8960a0e0adf1dab4777401a3626.htm

The Subaru is definitely a lot of car for the money, although I'd guess that more Toyotas and Hondas make it to 200k than Subarus. Car and Driver likes the Legacy, but also says....

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a28811392/2020-subaru-legacy-drive/

"The base engine moves the Legacy adequately at best, and it sounds labored when pushed hard. In our 2.5-liter Sport test car, the sprint to 60 mph happens in a lazy 8.0 seconds and the quarter-mile passes in 16.2 seconds with a modest trap speed of 88 mph, well behind its key competitors from Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, and Toyota....Subaru says the 2020 model is the best-handling Legacy ever, and it probably is, but it still lacks the crisp steering and overall agility of the Honda Accord. While its suspension tuning makes for a rather plush ride quality, body motions are poorly managed and almost floppy over rougher roads."

Michaell

Not that I need a car, or anything, but some random surfing did turn up this:

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/805618740/overview/

qbrozen

Michaell said:

Not that I need a car, or anything, but some random surfing did turn up this:

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/805618740/overview/

gorgeous color. Personally, I'd have to hold out for a T6, though.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

Michaell said:

Not that I need a car, or anything, but some random surfing did turn up this:

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/805618740/overview/

gorgeous color. Personally, I'd have to hold out for a T6, though.

More Powah?

250hp would be fine, and I could live with FWD

qbrozen

I don't want to just "live with" a car. I want to actually like it, or even love it. ;b

Michaell

qbrozen said:

I don't want to just "live with" a car. I want to actually like it, or even love it. ;b

Given what my vehicle history is (4 Fords & 3 Saturns among them), a Volvo would be a pretty big step up.

stickguy

Michaell said:

qbrozen said:

Michaell said:

Not that I need a car, or anything, but some random surfing did turn up this:

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/805618740/overview/

gorgeous color. Personally, I'd have to hold out for a T6, though.

More Powah?

250hp would be fine, and I could live with FWD

I am with you here. That engine is plenty quick enough, and no AWD makes for a safer long term relationship. That one seems to be pretty low spec though. Pretty sure no BLIS, and can't even tell if it has a BU camera.

that bugs me about Vroom (and Carvana). On many of their cars, you just can't tell what is on it. And they don't show the right pictures always to figure it out. And don't have accurate listings (and copies of original window stickers of course are too much to ask for, though Carvana sometimes lists a knock-off version at least on a BMW),

I do love that color combo. Price seems OK for the miles.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

Imid, I’m sure there are a lot more people that got infected (heck, I think me and my wife had it, but no proof until we all get antibody tests). Which just proves how infectious it is. The part that matters the most is how many serious cases there are. That’s what all the restrictions are trying to smooth out.

With all the steering wheels I handled I wouldn’t be surprised if I was exposed. Some of those vehicles were biohazards regardless.

imidazol97

fintail said:

And the serious likelihood of deaths being under reported along with cases.

I like the talk about not making things political, but then going for pieces by the National Review/Victor Davis Hanson, who are by far not neutral sources.

Are the facts wrong in that story? Here's a link to another article on same study.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-antibodies-widespread-in-santa-clara.html

imidazol97

oldfarmer50 said:

With all the steering wheels I handled I wouldn’t be surprised if I was exposed. Some of those vehicles were biohazards regardless.

Yup. And those would be hands from folks who have been traveling contacting others who were traveling.

My son flew several different places on business. He occasionally had flu-like symptoms. But since 80% seem not to have debilitating symptoms sending them to the doctor or after hours care, nothing stood out until March when testing started and the obvious rapid increase in cases found among those whom doctors thought had appropriate symptoms for testing. Most cases appear not to have been tested.

I'd pay to have the test run for my antibodies because of the cough and aches I had that I saw the doctor for earlier. Because we bumped elbows with lots of people from the tech area side of town and around the base at Chick Fil A, someone there may have passed it along and I caught it.

I certainly wouldn't wish on folks at risk to catch the Virus from others as punishment, whether it's reduced immune systems or being overweight or diabetes.

We want everyone to be around to buy all those cars they'll finally be allowed to build after some governors decide they have to open up businesses.

imidazol97

qbrozen said:

I don't want to just "live with" a car. I want to actually like it, or even love it. ;b

Is this what most are really wanting? ""The real question is when u turn on your car.... does it return u the favor?"
Whether it's in driving agility or comfort or quiet or status symbol value...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DfGknbfFYE

graphicguy

stickguy said:

Are they actually canceling school, or just doing like NJ and doing virtual learning as long as it takes? At this point might as well finish out the year that way.

They’re doing home schooling in OH, too. Teachers are emailing lesson plans and materials to parents.

Michaell

stickguy said:

Michaell said:

qbrozen said:

Michaell said:

Not that I need a car, or anything, but some random surfing did turn up this:

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/805618740/overview/

gorgeous color. Personally, I'd have to hold out for a T6, though.

More Powah?

250hp would be fine, and I could live with FWD

I am with you here. That engine is plenty quick enough, and no AWD makes for a safer long term relationship. That one seems to be pretty low spec though. Pretty sure no BLIS, and can't even tell if it has a BU camera.

that bugs me about Vroom (and Carvana). On many of their cars, you just can't tell what is on it. And they don't show the right pictures always to figure it out. And don't have accurate listings (and copies of original window stickers of course are too much to ask for, though Carvana sometimes lists a knock-off version at least on a BMW),

I do love that color combo. Price seems OK for the miles.

Right - I'm not going to dig into it that much to find out what it does, and doesn't, have.

The color combo, price and miles are what caught my attention.

Just a little quarantine browsing.

graphicguy

fintail said:

And the serious likelihood of deaths being under reported along with cases.

I like the talk about not making things political, but then going for pieces by the National Review/Victor Davis Hanson, who are by far not neutral sources.

Maybe relevant to those in OH

stickguy said:

Imid, I’m sure there are a lot more people that got infected (heck, I think me and my wife had it, but no proof until we all get antibody tests). Which just proves how infectious it is. The part that matters the most is how many serious cases there are. That’s what all the restrictions are trying to smooth out.

Our bars and restaurants have been closed for sit down dining/drinking for many weeks. Our Governor was one of those who were early on the shutdowns. I don’t know of anyone who wants to protest that decision around here, either.

graphicguy

abacomike said:

Hit 97 degrees this afternoon - broke record for highest April temperature ever and highest low temperature of 80 degrees. I cannot believe the heat and humidity so early in the spring. Been running my AC 24/7 since March 1st - earliest ever.

It's downright murder down here.

70º and sunny in the Ohio Valley!

jipster

Acura wouldn't go for my offer. Here was their reply.

"Thanks. I appreciate the opportunity, however, I am already $1500 under cost using Acuras $5,000 dollar incentive to purchase. You can either use the $5,000 incentive or use the .9% with only a $1,500 incentive. That leaves me with no room. We are eager to sell cars at this time but we have to be smart about it too."

Really not interested to lease. You'd think the S.M would have tried.

I did come across the Subaru Legacy when browsing the other day. It seems to get really good reviews. Doubtful though.

Honda Worlds owner sent me an email asking why I didn't buy, said we couldn't meet on price, but feel free to try to earn my business.

graphicguy

jipster said:

Acura wouldn't go for my offer. Here was their reply.

"Thanks. I appreciate the opportunity, however, I am already $1500 under cost using Acuras $5,000 dollar incentive to purchase. You can either use the $5,000 incentive or use the .9% with only a $1,500 incentive. That leaves me with no room. We are eager to sell cars at this time but we have to be smart about it too."

Really not interested to lease. You'd think the S.M would have tried.

I did come across the Subaru Legacy when browsing the other day. It seems to get really good reviews. Doubtful though.

Honda Worlds owner sent me an email asking why I didn't buy, said we couldn't meet on price, but feel free to try to earn my business.

Sounds like you’ve hit the bottom with Acura if they won’t accept your offer in today’s climate. Good luck the rest of the way. Enjoy reading about your search.

28firefighter

Looks like you've hit the bottom now with Acura and with Honda.

benjaminh

jipster said:

Acura wouldn't go for my offer. Here was their reply.

"Thanks. I appreciate the opportunity, however, I am already $1500 under cost using Acuras $5,000 dollar incentive to purchase. You can either use the $5,000 incentive or use the .9% with only a $1,500 incentive. That leaves me with no room. We are eager to sell cars at this time but we have to be smart about it too."

Really not interested to lease. You'd think the S.M would have tried.

I did come across the Subaru Legacy when browsing the other day. It seems to get really good reviews. Doubtful though.

Honda Worlds owner sent me an email asking why I didn't buy, said we couldn't meet on price, but feel free to try to earn my business.

Before I leased my 2018 TLX I had never leased a car and was against leasing. But Acura paid me to change my mind. Your quote above shows why. You can get a $5k incentive with financing at probably c. 4.5% (what was the interest for that option?) or you can lease and get a $7350 incentive with a money factor (MF) that roughly equals a 4.5% loan. At the end of 3 years you then have the c.$18k residual, and overall you get the car for less with a lease. Why not pay less for the same car?

But also, overall, you do have to pay for the higher quality and better performance of the TLX with Tech package, which is a luxury performance car. Although it's competitive in price with an Accord EXL, it's going to be tough to get to the price of a lower level model. And just to say the obvious, only you can say if the TLX is worth just a bit more money. I think it's a significantly nicer car for just a little bit more.

And so a Honda EX CVT or Mazda 6 Touring should meet your price target. And both are really good cars.

The Subaru Legacy has the advantage of 4-wheel drive, but overall the acceleration, handling, and interior quality will not be quite at the level of the Accord or the Mazda 6.

Michaell

benjaminh said:

jipster said:

Acura wouldn't go for my offer. Here was their reply.

"Thanks. I appreciate the opportunity, however, I am already $1500 under cost using Acuras $5,000 dollar incentive to purchase. You can either use the $5,000 incentive or use the .9% with only a $1,500 incentive. That leaves me with no room. We are eager to sell cars at this time but we have to be smart about it too."

Really not interested to lease. You'd think the S.M would have tried.

I did come across the Subaru Legacy when browsing the other day. It seems to get really good reviews. Doubtful though.

Honda Worlds owner sent me an email asking why I didn't buy, said we couldn't meet on price, but feel free to try to earn my business.

Before I leased my 2018 TLX I had never leased a car and was against leasing. But Acura paid me to change my mind. Your quote above shows why. You can get a $5k incentive with financing at probably c. 4.5 % (What was the interest for that option?) or you can lease and get a $7350 incentive with a money factor (MF) that roughly equals a 4.5% loan. At the end of 3 years you then have the c.$18k residual, and overall you get the car for less with a lease. Why not pay less for the same car?

But also, overall, you do have to pay for the higher quality and better performance of the TLX. Although it's competitive in price with an Accord EXL, it's going to be tough to beat the price of a lower level model. And just to say the obvious, only you can say if the TLX is worth just a little bit more money. I think it's a higher level of car.

And so a Honda EX CVT or Mazda 6 Touring should meet your target. And both are really good cars.

The Subaru Legacy has the advantage of 4-wheel drive, but overall the acceleration, handling, and interior quality will not be quite at the level of the Accord or the Mazda 6.

Have you looked at the redesigned Legacy? Top trims have an interior modeled after Volvo, including the large, tablet like interface in the dash.

But, the natuarally aspirated base engine in the Legacy will pale in comparison to the 1.5T in the Accord.

roadburner

I'd just wait; I've heard used cars are moving pretty good, but not so with new cars.
On March 28th I emailed the Kia dealer to let me know if Kia decided to combine the $4,000 customer cash with 0% financing. Crickets.