Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

graphicguy

qbrozen said:

Honestly didn't think much of her before, but found this one and like her WAAY better in this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTTvp2HaNvM

I saw that. I think there’s little in the way of made up drama or theatrics with Sarah’s Vids. And, admit it...she’s better looking than Wizard, JR, Samcrac or any of those other YouTube wrenchers.

I catch all of her videos.

ab348

omarman said:

Interesting story. After reading that post I looked at the FICO acquisitions listed on wiki in the time frame you mentioned. Wow. Had no idea.

Yesterday I found a scholarly research study on some of the history of Fair-Isaac and it was fascinating. The two founders were a pair of Stanford self-described nerds who wanted to use their statistical and burgeoning early computer expertise to help assess credit risk. In those days loan approvals were all done locally by individuals who often had no methodology at all or used ones devised by their predecessors or the lending company which might or might not have any validity. These fellows figured they could develop a model that could be accurate and cheaper in the long run.

It took them years to gain a foothold and the stories of data acquisition and coding/entry from back then were mind-boggling. But they stayed with it and gained traction in the '70s. The interesting thing was that as the company grew they hired more people like the founders, not professional managers but statisticians and programmers/modellers. The result was a unique kind of corporate culture that was very collegial and not all that concerned about profits and growth. When they went public and had to start paying attention to Wall Street types that began to change, and once the founders and other early hires stepped aside and they hired their first external CEO (ex-Andersen Consulting) the former culture got destroyed. The interesting thing is that once those original people left, there was nobody left who actually seemed to know much about how the overall modelling all worked or what went into it and why. When the housing market took off in the early 2000s the demand for FICO scores began to skyrocket and the profits for the company followed suit. The result is as you see it now, where FICO scores (each one a revenue stream back to the company) are used everywhere, all the time.

qbrozen

These are the things that blow my mind when it comes to the market.
Both of these things happened between tonight and this morn:
Ford beats analysts’ earning predictions by TRIPLE, and the stock rises half a point.
The company I work for beats earnings by a whopping 6 cents, and it gains 5 points!

HUH?? Is Ford simply THAT hated? I mean, that's a HUGE number. $2.4B in Q3.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

These are the things that blow my mind when it comes to the market.
Both of these things happened between tonight and this morn:
Ford beats analysts’ earning predictions by TRIPLE, and the stock rises half a point.
The company I work for beats earnings by a whopping 6 cents, and it gains 5 points!

HUH?? Is Ford simply THAT hated? I mean, that's a HUGE number. $2.4B in Q3.

Ford cut their dividend earlier in the year. It used to yield 6%+, now nothing. The stock was $13 in 2016, and now it is $8. So, yeah, no one loves it.

Also, at their price, half a point is 6%. That's a pretty healthy bump.

stickguy

Prices also have expectations already built in.

stickguy

I never get gas at those no name places because I don’t trust them in general. But a major screw up like that can happen at any brand station.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

Prices also have expectations already built in.

Yes.... plus, forward guidance is a better barometer than the current quarter's results.

omarman

graphicguy said:

qbrozen said:

Honestly didn't think much of her before, but found this one and like her WAAY better in this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTTvp2HaNvM

I saw that. I think there’s little in the way of made up drama or theatrics with Sarah’s Vids. And, admit it...she’s better looking than Wizard, JR, Samcrac or any of those other YouTube wrenchers.

I catch all of her videos.

Admit what? I'm not against anybody or their choices. But there is drama and theatrics in "Sarah’s Vids." 🤣

After watching a straight forward "YouTube wrencher" taking time to explain how to pick a safe and cheap daily driver for yourself or your kid, you gotta like the wizard. Just saying.

qbrozen

kyfdx said:

Also, at their price, half a point is 6%. That's a pretty healthy bump.

Yeah, I guess that's a way to look at it. My company was 6.7%. But, that 6.7% is exactly the number by which it exceeded earnings projection vs Ford's ~300%.

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

qbrozen said:

Ugh. Typical car company marketing BS.
I received a survey request from Hyundai. I can't make this stuff up.
My responses thus far include:
Ute (El Camino and Ranchero)
Bi-drive Recreational All-terrain Transporter (Subaru's BRAT)
Multiple-Choice Vehicle (Subaru's Baja)
VehiCross pick-em-up

Category....a SCUT, Sports Car Utility Truck

hey, hey, they said don't use the word Truck. You failed. lol.

That’s what happens when he doesn’t hire “The Guy” to interpret posts for him.

jmonroe

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

I forgot what else you must do:

3). Do not be so self absorbed that you think that any corporate entity thinks about or cares about your position of moral superiority ; especially if you are ignoring points 1) and 2).

4) please do not claim moral superiority while trying to weasel out of a speeding ticket where you were actually speeding and hoping that the police officer will not show up in the court room. This negates all claims of moral superiority. 😂

But they do have #5

5) The corporate entity most definitely cares about profits, losses, and costs. If the hoodlum collection agencies they hire were paying .25 on the dollar, forcing them to take a loss lowers that just a bit, even if only a fraction of a penny. If "everyone" does what I did, soon they'll be paying pennies on the dollar. The corporate entity will feel that cost eventually.

6) The moral superiority of a speeding ticket comes if the speeding ticket doesn't take the basic speed law into account. The basic speed law basically states that the driving must be hazardous and dangerous in some way, not just an exceeding of two arbitrary black numbers on a white aluminum sign. Now the "maximum speed" law is absolute (greater than 65 in CA). You could argue since the "basic speed law" doesn't apply to maximum speed cases, the cases against the CHP lack moral superiority. However, every single City PD/Sheriff speed case I've fought had the moral superiority, even by the wording of the law. Besides, I don't like fighting the speeding cases, it's the other BS vehicle codes they come up with that I put up a bigger fight against. The list that comes to mind is:

A) Following Too Closely (yeah Officer, did you notice they cut me off severely and almost caused a collision?)
Passing on the Right Shoulder (yeah Officer, one, it wasn't a shoulder, and two, I didn't pass anyone).
C) Failure to Obey a Sign (You mean the "no U-turn sign" that's obscured from view Officer? How about the fact that no one was impeded and no right-of-way was violated by my U-turn?)
D) No Right Turn on Red Sign Violation - You mean a sign can tell me whether my right turn is safe or not better than I can with my own judgment observing traffic in real-time?
E) Failure to Stop at a Stop Sign - Saving the world one CA stop at a time!
F) Red Light Violation - 1) Cameras are unconstitutional, 2) It was a right turn, are you sure I didn't stop for a millisecond? 3) No right of way violated 4) The light was still yellow (doesn't apply to every case but certainly did on one) 5) You know darn well the Law Enforcement vehicle in the middle of the intersection with it's emergency lights on trumps the red light for my right turn.
G) I'm sure there's another I'm forgetting that didn't hold up in Court.

One thing it has taught me is that maybe the only ticket Officers are trained enough on to be qualified to write and apply correctly is speeding tickets.

Lastly, and maybe more importantly, every American, even if 100% guilty, has a right to not self-incriminate, and a right to force the State/People to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt in a Court of Law. If it's not worth it or important enough for the State to go through all the steps required for due process, then perhaps they shouldn't be writing the accusations and allegations in the first place? I'd say so.

mjfloyd1

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

mjfloyd1

Interesting information

https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/but-wait-theres-more/a34493979/study-wrx-drivers-are-fast-bmw-drivers-are-rude/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_aut&utm_medium=email&date=102920&utm_campaign=nl21931588&utm_term=AAA -- High Minus Dormant and 90 Day Non Openers

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

An Indie Gas Station in town had their tanks loaded the wrong way, people who filled up with Diesel got PUG and those filling up with PUG got diesel. The oil company supplying the fuel made the mistake....it will be very costly to repair the cars....they estimate around 50 cars will be affected.
https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/ontario-gas-station-mixes-up-diesel-and-premium-ruining-some-drivers-cars

Both fuels must be ignited to perform, but diesel uses air compression and gasoline requires a spark plug. If you put diesel in your gas engine, it will chug along until any gas is burned and then stop: your car won’t fire the diesel.

The gas-in-diesel is more deadly to your engine. While various scenarios dictate the extent of damage (Did you start your car? How much [correct] fuel was already in the tank? How far did you drive and infiltrate your engine with the wrong fuel?) when a consumer has unwittingly been provided the wrong fuel, it makes for a worst case.

Can you imagine what you would have to go through if you were caught in this mess? Repairs, rental car, dealing with the oil company....not knowing if your car will ever be right. Makes you wonder too, is it worth it buying gas at an indie to save a few cents per gallon, and what happens to these cars when they get traded in - who is the next owner?

I don't think this is simply because they are an indie gas station, this can happen at any gas station that sells both gas and diesel.

stickguy

mjfloyd1 said:

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

I also wait if needed to get the check in receipt when returning a rental car. I’m not trusting enough to drop the keys so they can send me a receipt later. Been burned on that before.

If I have no choice (did this recently with a U haul) I took pictures of everything, making sure you could see the location. Odometer, gas gauge, and exterior body shots. Just in case!

explorerx4

I like the Car Wizard, but I think he made that $2500 car video in retrospect. Either that or he should have followed his own advice.

mjfloyd1

stickguy said:

mjfloyd1 said:

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

I also wait if needed to get the check in receipt when returning a rental car. I’m not trusting enough to drop the keys so they can send me a receipt later. Been burned on that before.

If I have no choice (did this recently with a U haul) I took pictures of everything, making sure you could see the location. Odometer, gas gauge, and exterior body shots. Just in case!

Not paying the $350 when you have no supporting evidence is what I call choosing to make a bad situation even worse by trashing your credit

jmonroe1

driver100 said:

An Indie Gas Station in town had their tanks loaded the wrong way, people who filled up with Diesel got PUG and those filling up with PUG got diesel. The oil company supplying the fuel made the mistake....it will be very costly to repair the cars....they estimate around 50 cars will be affected.
https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/ontario-gas-station-mixes-up-diesel-and-premium-ruining-some-drivers-cars

Both fuels must be ignited to perform, but diesel uses air compression and gasoline requires a spark plug. If you put diesel in your gas engine, it will chug along until any gas is burned and then stop: your car won’t fire the diesel.

The gas-in-diesel is more deadly to your engine. While various scenarios dictate the extent of damage (Did you start your car? How much [correct] fuel was already in the tank? How far did you drive and infiltrate your engine with the wrong fuel?) when a consumer has unwittingly been provided the wrong fuel, it makes for a worst case.

Can you imagine what you would have to go through if you were caught in this mess? Repairs, rental car, dealing with the oil company....not knowing if your car will ever be right. Makes you wonder too, is it worth it buying gas at an indie to save a few cents per gallon, and what happens to these cars when they get traded in - who is the next owner?

There are ways to prevent that from happening, if they cared, but obviously they don’t. It must be cheaper to fix screw ups than preventing them. No mercy for stupidity.

jmonroe

stickguy

explorerx4 said:

I like the Car Wizard, but I think he made that $2500 car video in retrospect. Either that or he should have followed his own advice.

He’s very upfront when he buys a money pit for himself, that you should not do it if you have to pay a shop to do everything.

mjfloyd1

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

An Indie Gas Station in town had their tanks loaded the wrong way, people who filled up with Diesel got PUG and those filling up with PUG got diesel. The oil company supplying the fuel made the mistake....it will be very costly to repair the cars....they estimate around 50 cars will be affected.
https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/ontario-gas-station-mixes-up-diesel-and-premium-ruining-some-drivers-cars

Both fuels must be ignited to perform, but diesel uses air compression and gasoline requires a spark plug. If you put diesel in your gas engine, it will chug along until any gas is burned and then stop: your car won’t fire the diesel.

The gas-in-diesel is more deadly to your engine. While various scenarios dictate the extent of damage (Did you start your car? How much [correct] fuel was already in the tank? How far did you drive and infiltrate your engine with the wrong fuel?) when a consumer has unwittingly been provided the wrong fuel, it makes for a worst case.

Can you imagine what you would have to go through if you were caught in this mess? Repairs, rental car, dealing with the oil company....not knowing if your car will ever be right. Makes you wonder too, is it worth it buying gas at an indie to save a few cents per gallon, and what happens to these cars when they get traded in - who is the next owner?

There are ways to prevent that from happening, if they cared, but obviously they don’t. It must be cheaper to fix screw ups than preventing them. No mercy for stupidity.

jmonroe

How do you prevent it when the supplier puts diesel in the PUG storage and puts PUG in the diesel storage?

driver100

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

An Indie Gas Station in town had their tanks loaded the wrong way, people who filled up with Diesel got PUG and those filling up with PUG got diesel. The oil company supplying the fuel made the mistake....it will be very costly to repair the cars....they estimate around 50 cars will be affected.
https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/ontario-gas-station-mixes-up-diesel-and-premium-ruining-some-drivers-cars

Both fuels must be ignited to perform, but diesel uses air compression and gasoline requires a spark plug. If you put diesel in your gas engine, it will chug along until any gas is burned and then stop: your car won’t fire the diesel.

The gas-in-diesel is more deadly to your engine. While various scenarios dictate the extent of damage (Did you start your car? How much [correct] fuel was already in the tank? How far did you drive and infiltrate your engine with the wrong fuel?) when a consumer has unwittingly been provided the wrong fuel, it makes for a worst case.

Can you imagine what you would have to go through if you were caught in this mess? Repairs, rental car, dealing with the oil company....not knowing if your car will ever be right. Makes you wonder too, is it worth it buying gas at an indie to save a few cents per gallon, and what happens to these cars when they get traded in - who is the next owner?

I don't think this is simply because they are an indie gas station, this can happen at any gas station that sells both gas and diesel.

Definitely, but probably less likely at a name brand. And if you do sue them there is more chance they will still be in business, also more likely they will pay to fix your car as they want to maintain their reputation.

driver100

mjfloyd1 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

An Indie Gas Station in town had their tanks loaded the wrong way, people who filled up with Diesel got PUG and those filling up with PUG got diesel. The oil company supplying the fuel made the mistake....it will be very costly to repair the cars....they estimate around 50 cars will be affected.
https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/ontario-gas-station-mixes-up-diesel-and-premium-ruining-some-drivers-cars

Both fuels must be ignited to perform, but diesel uses air compression and gasoline requires a spark plug. If you put diesel in your gas engine, it will chug along until any gas is burned and then stop: your car won’t fire the diesel.

The gas-in-diesel is more deadly to your engine. While various scenarios dictate the extent of damage (Did you start your car? How much [correct] fuel was already in the tank? How far did you drive and infiltrate your engine with the wrong fuel?) when a consumer has unwittingly been provided the wrong fuel, it makes for a worst case.

Can you imagine what you would have to go through if you were caught in this mess? Repairs, rental car, dealing with the oil company....not knowing if your car will ever be right. Makes you wonder too, is it worth it buying gas at an indie to save a few cents per gallon, and what happens to these cars when they get traded in - who is the next owner?

There are ways to prevent that from happening, if they cared, but obviously they don’t. It must be cheaper to fix screw ups than preventing them. No mercy for stupidity.

jmonroe

How do you prevent it when the supplier puts diesel in the PUG storage and puts PUG in the diesel storage?

That's what I would like to know too!

driver100

mjfloyd1 said:

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

Right on! It would be nice of them to accept the customers word for it.....but, they don't have to do that. Like the judges say on Hot Bench, you have to prove your case with a preponderance of the evidence.

If you are going to stake your credit rating on a he said they said without any proof, you are asking for trouble.

jmonroe1

driver100 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

An Indie Gas Station in town had their tanks loaded the wrong way, people who filled up with Diesel got PUG and those filling up with PUG got diesel. The oil company supplying the fuel made the mistake....it will be very costly to repair the cars....they estimate around 50 cars will be affected.
https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/ontario-gas-station-mixes-up-diesel-and-premium-ruining-some-drivers-cars

Both fuels must be ignited to perform, but diesel uses air compression and gasoline requires a spark plug. If you put diesel in your gas engine, it will chug along until any gas is burned and then stop: your car won’t fire the diesel.

The gas-in-diesel is more deadly to your engine. While various scenarios dictate the extent of damage (Did you start your car? How much [correct] fuel was already in the tank? How far did you drive and infiltrate your engine with the wrong fuel?) when a consumer has unwittingly been provided the wrong fuel, it makes for a worst case.

Can you imagine what you would have to go through if you were caught in this mess? Repairs, rental car, dealing with the oil company....not knowing if your car will ever be right. Makes you wonder too, is it worth it buying gas at an indie to save a few cents per gallon, and what happens to these cars when they get traded in - who is the next owner?

There are ways to prevent that from happening, if they cared, but obviously they don’t. It must be cheaper to fix screw ups than preventing them. No mercy for stupidity.

jmonroe

How do you prevent it when the supplier puts diesel in the PUG storage and puts PUG in the diesel storage?

That's what I would like to know too!

C’mon man, think about it for just a minute. Then, if you must, ask the question again.

jmonroe

mjfloyd1

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

An Indie Gas Station in town had their tanks loaded the wrong way, people who filled up with Diesel got PUG and those filling up with PUG got diesel. The oil company supplying the fuel made the mistake....it will be very costly to repair the cars....they estimate around 50 cars will be affected.
https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/ontario-gas-station-mixes-up-diesel-and-premium-ruining-some-drivers-cars

Both fuels must be ignited to perform, but diesel uses air compression and gasoline requires a spark plug. If you put diesel in your gas engine, it will chug along until any gas is burned and then stop: your car won’t fire the diesel.

The gas-in-diesel is more deadly to your engine. While various scenarios dictate the extent of damage (Did you start your car? How much [correct] fuel was already in the tank? How far did you drive and infiltrate your engine with the wrong fuel?) when a consumer has unwittingly been provided the wrong fuel, it makes for a worst case.

Can you imagine what you would have to go through if you were caught in this mess? Repairs, rental car, dealing with the oil company....not knowing if your car will ever be right. Makes you wonder too, is it worth it buying gas at an indie to save a few cents per gallon, and what happens to these cars when they get traded in - who is the next owner?

There are ways to prevent that from happening, if they cared, but obviously they don’t. It must be cheaper to fix screw ups than preventing them. No mercy for stupidity.

jmonroe

How do you prevent it when the supplier puts diesel in the PUG storage and puts PUG in the diesel storage?

That's what I would like to know too!

C’mon man, think about it for just a minute. Then, if you must, ask the question again.

jmonroe

I guess you could have "keyed" hose ends different for diesel and gas, but they could still put the wrong fuel in the truck.

You could also pump fuel and smell it but I have no idea how much fuel needs to be pumped to clear the lines to the nozzle

abacomike

Trying to get into my condo community 15 minutes ago was like trying to get into the White House. Biden is speaking at a huge crowd at Broward College which is right across the street from me. Police using marked and unmarked cars are stopping everyone driving on Coconut Creek Parkway - I am sure there were Secret Service people there as well.

I can’t wait for the end of this mess along with Medicare commercials. We need PEACE!!!🤓

stickguy

The mess isn’t likely to end soon, but at least the commercials are done next Tuesday!

mjfloyd1

I bet it will get ugly no matter who wins.

It is sad. No one will work with the other side

explorerx4

Putting the wrong fuel in the tank could have happened when filling the tanker or filling the gas station tanks.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

These are the things that blow my mind when it comes to the market.
Both of these things happened between tonight and this morn:
Ford beats analysts’ earning predictions by TRIPLE, and the stock rises half a point.
The company I work for beats earnings by a whopping 6 cents, and it gains 5 points!

HUH?? Is Ford simply THAT hated? I mean, that's a HUGE number. $2.4B in Q3.

Don't even try to make heads or tails of the stock market. I have NO clue why what you said happens!

driver100

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

An Indie Gas Station in town had their tanks loaded the wrong way, people who filled up with Diesel got PUG and those filling up with PUG got diesel. The oil company supplying the fuel made the mistake....it will be very costly to repair the cars....they estimate around 50 cars will be affected.
https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/ontario-gas-station-mixes-up-diesel-and-premium-ruining-some-drivers-cars

Both fuels must be ignited to perform, but diesel uses air compression and gasoline requires a spark plug. If you put diesel in your gas engine, it will chug along until any gas is burned and then stop: your car won’t fire the diesel.

The gas-in-diesel is more deadly to your engine. While various scenarios dictate the extent of damage (Did you start your car? How much [correct] fuel was already in the tank? How far did you drive and infiltrate your engine with the wrong fuel?) when a consumer has unwittingly been provided the wrong fuel, it makes for a worst case.

Can you imagine what you would have to go through if you were caught in this mess? Repairs, rental car, dealing with the oil company....not knowing if your car will ever be right. Makes you wonder too, is it worth it buying gas at an indie to save a few cents per gallon, and what happens to these cars when they get traded in - who is the next owner?

There are ways to prevent that from happening, if they cared, but obviously they don’t. It must be cheaper to fix screw ups than preventing them. No mercy for stupidity.

jmonroe

How do you prevent it when the supplier puts diesel in the PUG storage and puts PUG in the diesel storage?

That's what I would like to know too!

C’mon man, think about it for just a minute. Then, if you must, ask the question again.

jmonroe

OK, I give up....how could the gas station have known? Should he do a taste test after the tanks are filled up?

driver100

explorerx4 said:

Putting the wrong fuel in the tank could have happened when filling the tanker or filling the gas station tanks.

The article said the delivery guy poured the wrong thing into the tanks.

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

mjfloyd1 said:

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

I also wait if needed to get the check in receipt when returning a rental car. I’m not trusting enough to drop the keys so they can send me a receipt later. Been burned on that before.

If I have no choice (did this recently with a U haul) I took pictures of everything, making sure you could see the location. Odometer, gas gauge, and exterior body shots. Just in case!

Not paying the $350 when you have no supporting evidence is what I call choosing to make a bad situation even worse by trashing your credit

I don't know about you, but in my line of work I don't pay for unsupported invoices and bills without evidence and backup, and I just chose to do the same in my personal business. Kia provided me no evidence or back up that 1 Key Fob was returned other than a bill that came much later. Not an invoice I'm going to pay 99% of the time.

I agree a greater amount of evidence on my side would have helped, but so would the same have helped their cause too. If I had signed on any dotted line that 1 Key Fob was returned, I'd gladly fork over the cash.

andres3

driver100 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

Right on! It would be nice of them to accept the customers word for it.....but, they don't have to do that. Like the judges say on Hot Bench, you have to prove your case with a preponderance of the evidence.

If you are going to stake your credit rating on a he said they said without any proof, you are asking for trouble.

I don't see it that way because they are the ones sending me a bill after the fact with no evidence or support. It's not the other way around. They have a claim. I denied and rejected it.

explorerx4

@driver100,
Maybe that's what the station owner thought happened and the reporter ran with it.
It is the most likely scenario, but not the only one.

jmonroe1

mjfloyd1 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

An Indie Gas Station in town had their tanks loaded the wrong way, people who filled up with Diesel got PUG and those filling up with PUG got diesel. The oil company supplying the fuel made the mistake....it will be very costly to repair the cars....they estimate around 50 cars will be affected.
https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/ontario-gas-station-mixes-up-diesel-and-premium-ruining-some-drivers-cars

Both fuels must be ignited to perform, but diesel uses air compression and gasoline requires a spark plug. If you put diesel in your gas engine, it will chug along until any gas is burned and then stop: your car won’t fire the diesel.

The gas-in-diesel is more deadly to your engine. While various scenarios dictate the extent of damage (Did you start your car? How much [correct] fuel was already in the tank? How far did you drive and infiltrate your engine with the wrong fuel?) when a consumer has unwittingly been provided the wrong fuel, it makes for a worst case.

Can you imagine what you would have to go through if you were caught in this mess? Repairs, rental car, dealing with the oil company....not knowing if your car will ever be right. Makes you wonder too, is it worth it buying gas at an indie to save a few cents per gallon, and what happens to these cars when they get traded in - who is the next owner?

There are ways to prevent that from happening, if they cared, but obviously they don’t. It must be cheaper to fix screw ups than preventing them. No mercy for stupidity.

jmonroe

How do you prevent it when the supplier puts diesel in the PUG storage and puts PUG in the diesel storage?

That's what I would like to know too!

C’mon man, think about it for just a minute. Then, if you must, ask the question again.

jmonroe

I guess you could have "keyed" hose ends different for diesel and gas, but they could still put the wrong fuel in the truck.

You could also pump fuel and smell it but I have no idea how much fuel needs to be pumped to clear the lines to the nozzle

Having keyed nozzles is the answer but you have to do this all the way back to when you take the fuel out of the pipe lines from the refineries. Gas stations already have larger diameter nozzles on the the diesel nozzles to prevent them from being inserted in cars that require gas but the smaller diameter nozzle on the gas pumps can be inserted into the larger diameter filler tubes on diesel cars. This can be prevented by having a tab on the smaller diameter gas nozzle so it cannot enter the diesel cars filler tube. Now this would mean all drivers of gas powered cars would have to line up the tab on the nozzle to get it into their filler tube. Can you imagine all the moaning that gas powered cars owners would make if this happened? I’d be willing to bet that half of the women driving couldn’t do it and even some men couldn’t do it which is probably why car manufacturers haven’t done it.

On a related subject, remember when they first came out with “lead free gas” and they put a restricter in the filler tube of cars so you couldn’t put the larger diameter nozzle of “leaded gas” (that was still being sold for the older cars on the road) into cars designed for “lead free” gas? Back then the “leaded gas” was better for valve seats. So, me being a non-conformist, I decided to cut a few slots in the filler neck and open it up so I could get the larger diameter leaded nozzle into my “lead free” cars. When one wise guy at work wanted to know how I did this, I explained I took a rag and saturated it with oil then tied a small diameter piece of safety wire to the rag and pushed it into the filler tube so it would collect the metal saw dust created by a hack saw blade. Once I had a few relief cuts made in the restricter, I pulled out the rag that captured the metal saw dust then I whacked the metal to bend it in. This guy said something like, “that’s really brilliant, banging on a chisel and taking a chance of creating a spark”. He goes on and on about how dumb I was and when he was finished I asked him if he was done before I answered him. He said “yep, I’m done”. I then said I wasn’t using a steel chisel. I used a piece of copper sweat tubing (like what’s used in house supply plumbing) that I pounded flat on the end that struck the filler tube. I got one of those deer in the head light looks and he slithered away without another word. The other guys that were gathered around just smiled and asked for more details. Like the man said, “where there’s a will there’s a way”.

jmonroe

mjfloyd1

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

Right on! It would be nice of them to accept the customers word for it.....but, they don't have to do that. Like the judges say on Hot Bench, you have to prove your case with a preponderance of the evidence.

If you are going to stake your credit rating on a he said they said without any proof, you are asking for trouble.

I don't see it that way because they are the ones sending me a bill after the fact with no evidence or support. It's not the other way around. They have a claim. I denied and rejected it.

You deserve exactly what you are getting.

jmonroe1

andres3 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

mjfloyd1 said:

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

I also wait if needed to get the check in receipt when returning a rental car. I’m not trusting enough to drop the keys so they can send me a receipt later. Been burned on that before.

If I have no choice (did this recently with a U haul) I took pictures of everything, making sure you could see the location. Odometer, gas gauge, and exterior body shots. Just in case!

Not paying the $350 when you have no supporting evidence is what I call choosing to make a bad situation even worse by trashing your credit

I don't know about you, but in my line of work I don't pay for unsupported invoices and bills without evidence and backup, and I just chose to do the same in my personal business. Kia provided me no evidence or back up that 1 Key Fob was returned other than a bill that came much later. Not an invoice I'm going to pay 99% of the time.

I agree a greater amount of evidence on my side would have helped, but so would the same have helped their cause too. If I had signed on any dotted line that 1 Key Fob was returned, I'd gladly fork over the cash.

Just my 2 cents.

By now I’m sure you know they had the upper hand.

Look at it like this...they had a gun with bullets while you just had a gun that went click, click.

jmonroe

andres3

jmonroe1 said:

andres3 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

mjfloyd1 said:

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

I also wait if needed to get the check in receipt when returning a rental car. I’m not trusting enough to drop the keys so they can send me a receipt later. Been burned on that before.

If I have no choice (did this recently with a U haul) I took pictures of everything, making sure you could see the location. Odometer, gas gauge, and exterior body shots. Just in case!

Not paying the $350 when you have no supporting evidence is what I call choosing to make a bad situation even worse by trashing your credit

I don't know about you, but in my line of work I don't pay for unsupported invoices and bills without evidence and backup, and I just chose to do the same in my personal business. Kia provided me no evidence or back up that 1 Key Fob was returned other than a bill that came much later. Not an invoice I'm going to pay 99% of the time.

I agree a greater amount of evidence on my side would have helped, but so would the same have helped their cause too. If I had signed on any dotted line that 1 Key Fob was returned, I'd gladly fork over the cash.

Just my 2 cents.

By now I’m sure you know they had the upper hand.

Look at it like this...they had a gun with bullets while you just had a gun that went click, click.

jmonroe

I agree with that analogy, but you have to add, even with the gun fired, and me on the ground, they didn't get the $350 out of my wallet.

I just checked my credit again, I'm able to get back up and dust myself off now already at 695. Screw Kia Finance, the Kia dealership, and their families and heirs too!

Michaell

andres3 said:

jmonroe1 said:

andres3 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

mjfloyd1 said:

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

I also wait if needed to get the check in receipt when returning a rental car. I’m not trusting enough to drop the keys so they can send me a receipt later. Been burned on that before.

If I have no choice (did this recently with a U haul) I took pictures of everything, making sure you could see the location. Odometer, gas gauge, and exterior body shots. Just in case!

Not paying the $350 when you have no supporting evidence is what I call choosing to make a bad situation even worse by trashing your credit

I don't know about you, but in my line of work I don't pay for unsupported invoices and bills without evidence and backup, and I just chose to do the same in my personal business. Kia provided me no evidence or back up that 1 Key Fob was returned other than a bill that came much later. Not an invoice I'm going to pay 99% of the time.

I agree a greater amount of evidence on my side would have helped, but so would the same have helped their cause too. If I had signed on any dotted line that 1 Key Fob was returned, I'd gladly fork over the cash.

Just my 2 cents.

By now I’m sure you know they had the upper hand.

Look at it like this...they had a gun with bullets while you just had a gun that went click, click.

jmonroe

I agree with that analogy, but you have to add, even with the gun fired, and me on the ground, they didn't get the $350 out of my wallet.

So long as you don't initiate any new loans, you'll be OK. But, if you do, what will the higher interest rate cost you due to the credit score hit?

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

mjfloyd1 said:

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

I also wait if needed to get the check in receipt when returning a rental car. I’m not trusting enough to drop the keys so they can send me a receipt later. Been burned on that before.

If I have no choice (did this recently with a U haul) I took pictures of everything, making sure you could see the location. Odometer, gas gauge, and exterior body shots. Just in case!

Not paying the $350 when you have no supporting evidence is what I call choosing to make a bad situation even worse by trashing your credit

I don't know about you, but in my line of work I don't pay for unsupported invoices and bills without evidence and backup, and I just chose to do the same in my personal business. Kia provided me no evidence or back up that 1 Key Fob was returned other than a bill that came much later. Not an invoice I'm going to pay 99% of the time.

I agree a greater amount of evidence on my side would have helped, but so would the same have helped their cause too. If I had signed on any dotted line that 1 Key Fob was returned, I'd gladly fork over the cash.

What would you take as evidence of only one key fob being returned?

ab348

Man, that “mute user” function would sure be sweet.

imidazol97

Here in Ohio, the diesel nozzle is on the opposite side of the pump if diesel can be gotten at that pump. The 3 grades (usually) to choose by pressing a button are on the right with one nozzle; the diesel is on the left with its one button is on the left.

The diesel nozzle is GREEN. The diesel nozzle smells bad.

I don't know if there's a common color for the the 3 (or more) gasoline grades.

The only deviation I've seen from this (other than Casey's) is a new BP station in my area. IT has a green diesel on the left and a Silver covered nozzle for the Silver recreational NO ALCOHOL fuel on the left. Both are parked on the left and the other 3 gasoline grades are on the right. I forget where the button for SILVER no alcohol was...
The nozzle for the Silver recreational gas is SILVER.

I picked up Silver for my oil/gas small engine mixing a couple nights ago.

Out of 12 or so pump stations at this location, I think only a couple have the recreational no alcohol piped to them.

andres3

A few bucks can "ROCK" your credit. That is a lesson learned.

stickguy

I’m thinking it that diesel owners are probably much more aware of what they are pumping. Plenty of gasoline drivers are pretty oblivious about everything automobile related.

mjfloyd1

I'm in a pickle. A hospital sent me a bill for $96,000 for a robotic radical prostatectomy but they did not let me take the prostate gland home or send me pictures of the removed gland. I do have undetectable PSA levels but I am wondering if I should pay the bill or fight it since they are offering no evidence. I understand that I will be trashing my credit rating if I do not pay the bill.😂

They didn't even give me a receipt for the gland signed by either them or me...

andres3

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

mjfloyd1 said:

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

I also wait if needed to get the check in receipt when returning a rental car. I’m not trusting enough to drop the keys so they can send me a receipt later. Been burned on that before.

If I have no choice (did this recently with a U haul) I took pictures of everything, making sure you could see the location. Odometer, gas gauge, and exterior body shots. Just in case!

Not paying the $350 when you have no supporting evidence is what I call choosing to make a bad situation even worse by trashing your credit

I don't know about you, but in my line of work I don't pay for unsupported invoices and bills without evidence and backup, and I just chose to do the same in my personal business. Kia provided me no evidence or back up that 1 Key Fob was returned other than a bill that came much later. Not an invoice I'm going to pay 99% of the time.

I agree a greater amount of evidence on my side would have helped, but so would the same have helped their cause too. If I had signed on any dotted line that 1 Key Fob was returned, I'd gladly fork over the cash.

What would you take as evidence of only one key fob being returned?

A receipt of property transfer with both parties signatures on it (that states the quantity of KEY FOB's returned as 1). Heck, even 1-party (me) would be good enough.

I don't think that's too much to ask. If they don't like it, they should have rejected receipt of the vehicle, and told me to come pick it up.

snakeweasel

nyccarguy said:

qbrozen said:

These are the things that blow my mind when it comes to the market.
Both of these things happened between tonight and this morn:
Ford beats analysts’ earning predictions by TRIPLE, and the stock rises half a point.
The company I work for beats earnings by a whopping 6 cents, and it gains 5 points!

HUH?? Is Ford simply THAT hated? I mean, that's a HUGE number. $2.4B in Q3.

Don't even try to make heads or tails of the stock market. I have NO clue why what you said happens!

A lot has to do with expectations. If Ford is expected to exceed earnings projections by 275% then the market adjusts for that 275%. If it turns out to be 300% then there should be a slight uptick as it was better than expectations. However if it turns out that they exceeded it it by only 250% then the stock should have a slight hit in value due to not meeting expectations.

A companies stock usually sits based on where the market as a whole thinks is going to happen. It then adjusts to the news based on the difference between expectations and reality. That's why a stock can drop with good news (the good news wasn't as good as expected) and go up with bad news (the bad news wasn't as bad as expected).

kyfdx

imidazol97 said:

Here in Ohio, the diesel nozzle is on the opposite side of the pump if diesel can be gotten at that pump. The 3 grades (usually) to choose by pressing a button are on the right with one nozzle; the diesel is on the left with it's one button is on the left.

The diesel nozzle is GREEN. I don't know if there's a common color for the the 3 (or more) gasoline grades.

The only deviation I've seen from this (other than Casey's) is a new BP station in my area. IT has a green diesel on the left and a Silver covered nozzle for the Silver recreational NO ALCOHOL fuel. Both are parked on the left and the other 3 gasoline grades are on the right. I forget where the button for SILVER no alcohol was...

I picked up Silver for my oil/gas small engine mixing a couple nights ago.

Out of 12 or so pump stations at this location, I think only a couple have the recreational no alcohol piped to them.

My local BP station diesel nozzle is black, and gasoline is green. Why? No clue.

mjfloyd1

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

mjfloyd1 said:

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

I also wait if needed to get the check in receipt when returning a rental car. I’m not trusting enough to drop the keys so they can send me a receipt later. Been burned on that before.

If I have no choice (did this recently with a U haul) I took pictures of everything, making sure you could see the location. Odometer, gas gauge, and exterior body shots. Just in case!

Not paying the $350 when you have no supporting evidence is what I call choosing to make a bad situation even worse by trashing your credit

I don't know about you, but in my line of work I don't pay for unsupported invoices and bills without evidence and backup, and I just chose to do the same in my personal business. Kia provided me no evidence or back up that 1 Key Fob was returned other than a bill that came much later. Not an invoice I'm going to pay 99% of the time.

I agree a greater amount of evidence on my side would have helped, but so would the same have helped their cause too. If I had signed on any dotted line that 1 Key Fob was returned, I'd gladly fork over the cash.

What would you take as evidence of only one key fob being returned?

A receipt of property transfer with both parties signatures on it (that states the quantity of KEY FOB's returned as 1. Heck, even 1-party (me) would be good enough.

I don't think that's too much to ask. If they don't like it, they should have rejected receipt of the vehicle, and told me to come pick it up.

Did you ask for this receipt?