Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

andres3

Michaell said:

andres3 said:

jmonroe1 said:

andres3 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

mjfloyd1 said:

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

I also wait if needed to get the check in receipt when returning a rental car. I’m not trusting enough to drop the keys so they can send me a receipt later. Been burned on that before.

If I have no choice (did this recently with a U haul) I took pictures of everything, making sure you could see the location. Odometer, gas gauge, and exterior body shots. Just in case!

Not paying the $350 when you have no supporting evidence is what I call choosing to make a bad situation even worse by trashing your credit

I don't know about you, but in my line of work I don't pay for unsupported invoices and bills without evidence and backup, and I just chose to do the same in my personal business. Kia provided me no evidence or back up that 1 Key Fob was returned other than a bill that came much later. Not an invoice I'm going to pay 99% of the time.

I agree a greater amount of evidence on my side would have helped, but so would the same have helped their cause too. If I had signed on any dotted line that 1 Key Fob was returned, I'd gladly fork over the cash.

Just my 2 cents.

By now I’m sure you know they had the upper hand.

Look at it like this...they had a gun with bullets while you just had a gun that went click, click.

jmonroe

I agree with that analogy, but you have to add, even with the gun fired, and me on the ground, they didn't get the $350 out of my wallet.

So long as you don't initiate any new loans, you'll be OK. But, if you do, what will the higher interest rate cost you due to the credit score hit?

According to Bill Luke Dodge in Phoenix, they wanted something like 15%! LOL. That was to get the "advertised" price $1,000 less than they really wanted to sell it at. I've never in my entire life had a car loan over 5.95%

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

mjfloyd1 said:

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

I also wait if needed to get the check in receipt when returning a rental car. I’m not trusting enough to drop the keys so they can send me a receipt later. Been burned on that before.

If I have no choice (did this recently with a U haul) I took pictures of everything, making sure you could see the location. Odometer, gas gauge, and exterior body shots. Just in case!

Not paying the $350 when you have no supporting evidence is what I call choosing to make a bad situation even worse by trashing your credit

I don't know about you, but in my line of work I don't pay for unsupported invoices and bills without evidence and backup, and I just chose to do the same in my personal business. Kia provided me no evidence or back up that 1 Key Fob was returned other than a bill that came much later. Not an invoice I'm going to pay 99% of the time.

I agree a greater amount of evidence on my side would have helped, but so would the same have helped their cause too. If I had signed on any dotted line that 1 Key Fob was returned, I'd gladly fork over the cash.

What would you take as evidence of only one key fob being returned?

A receipt of property transfer with both parties signatures on it (that states the quantity of KEY FOB's returned as 1. Heck, even 1-party (me) would be good enough.

I don't think that's too much to ask. If they don't like it, they should have rejected receipt of the vehicle, and told me to come pick it up.

Did you ask for this receipt?

I asked if there was any paperwork at the dealership, they told me no, everything was fine.

Months and months later, they said they had a piece of paper, that yet to this date I've never seen, because they want me to schedule an "appointment" prior to 5 PM when this elusive lease return manager is present to get this paperwork out of their storage file.

Based on hearsay I surmise that this paperwork created several days after the car was returned listed 1 Key FOB. It matters not to me what was doctored behind closed doors in the middle of the night though.

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

mjfloyd1 said:

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

I also wait if needed to get the check in receipt when returning a rental car. I’m not trusting enough to drop the keys so they can send me a receipt later. Been burned on that before.

If I have no choice (did this recently with a U haul) I took pictures of everything, making sure you could see the location. Odometer, gas gauge, and exterior body shots. Just in case!

Not paying the $350 when you have no supporting evidence is what I call choosing to make a bad situation even worse by trashing your credit

I don't know about you, but in my line of work I don't pay for unsupported invoices and bills without evidence and backup, and I just chose to do the same in my personal business. Kia provided me no evidence or back up that 1 Key Fob was returned other than a bill that came much later. Not an invoice I'm going to pay 99% of the time.

I agree a greater amount of evidence on my side would have helped, but so would the same have helped their cause too. If I had signed on any dotted line that 1 Key Fob was returned, I'd gladly fork over the cash.

What would you take as evidence of only one key fob being returned?

A receipt of property transfer with both parties signatures on it. Heck, even 1-party (me) would be good enough.

I don't think that's too much to ask.

Do you have that stating that you turned in two key fobs?

If not then it's a he said/she said situation. With that I would tend to lean towards believing the one that should have two fobs but only has one.

Aside from the receipt what evidence would you take?

andres3

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

stickguy said:

mjfloyd1 said:

You just don’t get it

If you had a picture of the 2 key fobs in the Kia time stamped on the day of the car return or a receipt for the 2 key fobs from the dealer that you returned the car to, then you would be fine. You have neither. You are screwed. Your choices are to pay the $350 or claim moral superiority and trash your credit.

Bill Murray was right

I also wait if needed to get the check in receipt when returning a rental car. I’m not trusting enough to drop the keys so they can send me a receipt later. Been burned on that before.

If I have no choice (did this recently with a U haul) I took pictures of everything, making sure you could see the location. Odometer, gas gauge, and exterior body shots. Just in case!

Not paying the $350 when you have no supporting evidence is what I call choosing to make a bad situation even worse by trashing your credit

I don't know about you, but in my line of work I don't pay for unsupported invoices and bills without evidence and backup, and I just chose to do the same in my personal business. Kia provided me no evidence or back up that 1 Key Fob was returned other than a bill that came much later. Not an invoice I'm going to pay 99% of the time.

I agree a greater amount of evidence on my side would have helped, but so would the same have helped their cause too. If I had signed on any dotted line that 1 Key Fob was returned, I'd gladly fork over the cash.

What would you take as evidence of only one key fob being returned?

A receipt of property transfer with both parties signatures on it. Heck, even 1-party (me) would be good enough.

I don't think that's too much to ask.

Do you have that stating that you turned in two key fobs?

If not then it's a he said/she said situation. With that I would tend to lean towards believing the one that should have two fobs but only has one.

Aside from the receipt what evidence would you take?

Since I have personal knowledge of the certainty 2 KEY FOB's were indeed turned over, no evidence short of my signature mistakenly agreeing to 1 KEY FOB in writing would be sufficient to convince me they had a leg to stand on.

Regarding he said she said, if 2 Key Fob's results in no action by either party, and 1 key Fob results in action of a $350 bill, I'd say the default is 2 Key Fob's, or someone should make sure the paperwork is in order.

As I've previously said, it's a flawed model ripe for this kind of mistake to happen all too often. Can't play ball.

mjfloyd1

Sounds like you should make an appointment with the lease return manager

omarman

mjfloyd1 said:

I'm in a pickle. A hospital sent me a bill for $96,000 for a robotic radical prostatectomy but they did not let me take the prostate gland home or send me pictures of the removed gland. I do have undetectable PSA levels but I am wondering if I should pay the bill or fight it since they are offering no evidence. I understand that I will be trashing my credit rating if I do not pay the bill.😂

They didn't even give me a receipt for the gland signed by either them or me...

I'd be careful asking for "proof" because the unreimbursed hospital and surgeon might offer to put it back where they found it! I can't find a specific emoji for that but that's probably just as well.

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

Sounds like you should make an appointment with the lease return manager

What would that accomplish after the fact? Give me the chance to tell them they suck to their face? I cut my losses of wasted time after several phone calls with the dealership.

mjfloyd1

omarman said:

mjfloyd1 said:

I'm in a pickle. A hospital sent me a bill for $96,000 for a robotic radical prostatectomy but they did not let me take the prostate gland home or send me pictures of the removed gland. I do have undetectable PSA levels but I am wondering if I should pay the bill or fight it since they are offering no evidence. I understand that I will be trashing my credit rating if I do not pay the bill.😂

They didn't even give me a receipt for the gland signed by either them or me...

I'd be careful asking for "proof" because the unreimbursed hospital and surgeon might offer to put it back where they found it! I can't find a specific emoji for that but that's probably just as well.

I guess I should take their word for it but maybe they just made 5 poke holes in my belly so they could charge me? Should I play ball?

mjfloyd1

andres3 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

Sounds like you should make an appointment with the lease return manager

What would that accomplish after the fact? Give me the chance to tell them they suck to their face? I cut my losses of wasted time after several phone calls with the dealership.

You should have done that immediately when you got the bill. Unfortunately there is no reasoning with you.

dino001

mjfloyd1 said:

Interesting information

https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/but-wait-theres-more/a34493979/study-wrx-drivers-are-fast-bmw-drivers-are-rude/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_aut&utm_medium=email&date=102920&utm_campaign=nl21931588&utm_term=AAA -- High Minus Dormant and 90 Day Non Openers

I'm in best company of the rudest drivers, apparently, not just the brand, even the model.

dino001

mjfloyd1 said:

Not paying the $350 when you have no supporting evidence is what I call choosing to make a bad situation even worse by trashing your credit

But you get to go on Edmunds and tell everybody about incredible injustice happening to you. That, my friend, Mastercard commercial priceless.

explorerx4

@omarman,
I'm disappointed you didn't post a GIF for that.

mjfloyd1

explorerx4 said:

@omarman,
I'm disappointed you didn't post a GIF for that.

It doesn’t come out the way you have it checked...

oldfarmer50

jmonroe1 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

An Indie Gas Station in town had their tanks loaded the wrong way, people who filled up with Diesel got PUG and those filling up with PUG got diesel. The oil company supplying the fuel made the mistake....it will be very costly to repair the cars....they estimate around 50 cars will be affected.
https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/ontario-gas-station-mixes-up-diesel-and-premium-ruining-some-drivers-cars

Both fuels must be ignited to perform, but diesel uses air compression and gasoline requires a spark plug. If you put diesel in your gas engine, it will chug along until any gas is burned and then stop: your car won’t fire the diesel.

The gas-in-diesel is more deadly to your engine. While various scenarios dictate the extent of damage (Did you start your car? How much [correct] fuel was already in the tank? How far did you drive and infiltrate your engine with the wrong fuel?) when a consumer has unwittingly been provided the wrong fuel, it makes for a worst case.

Can you imagine what you would have to go through if you were caught in this mess? Repairs, rental car, dealing with the oil company....not knowing if your car will ever be right. Makes you wonder too, is it worth it buying gas at an indie to save a few cents per gallon, and what happens to these cars when they get traded in - who is the next owner?

There are ways to prevent that from happening, if they cared, but obviously they don’t. It must be cheaper to fix screw ups than preventing them. No mercy for stupidity.

jmonroe

How do you prevent it when the supplier puts diesel in the PUG storage and puts PUG in the diesel storage?

That's what I would like to know too!

C’mon man, think about it for just a minute. Then, if you must, ask the question again.

jmonroe

I guess you could have "keyed" hose ends different for diesel and gas, but they could still put the wrong fuel in the truck.

You could also pump fuel and smell it but I have no idea how much fuel needs to be pumped to clear the lines to the nozzle

Having keyed nozzles is the answer but you have to do this all the way back to when you take the fuel out of the pipe lines from the refineries. Gas stations already have larger diameter nozzles on the the diesel nozzles to prevent them from being inserted in cars that require gas but the smaller diameter nozzle on the gas pumps can be inserted into the larger diameter filler tubes on diesel cars. This can be prevented by having a tab on the smaller diameter gas nozzle so it cannot enter the diesel cars filler tube. Now this would mean all drivers of gas powered cars would have to line up the tab on the nozzle to get it into their filler tube. Can you imagine all the moaning that gas powered cars owners would make if this happened? I’d be willing to bet that half of the women driving couldn’t do it and even some men couldn’t do it which is probably why car manufacturers haven’t done it.

On a related subject, remember when they first came out with “lead free gas” and they put a restricter in the filler tube of cars so you couldn’t put the larger diameter nozzle of “leaded gas” (that was still being sold for the older cars on the road) into cars designed for “lead free” gas? Back then the “leaded gas” was better for valve seats. So, me being a non-conformist, I decided to cut a few slots in the filler neck and open it up so I could get the larger diameter leaded nozzle into my “lead free” cars. When one wise guy at work wanted to know how I did this, I explained I took a rag and saturated it with oil then tied a small diameter piece of safety wire to the rag and pushed it into the filler tube so it would collect the metal saw dust created by a hack saw blade. Once I had a few relief cuts made in the restricter, I pulled out the rag that captured the metal saw dust then I whacked the metal to bend it in. This guy said something like, “that’s really brilliant, banging on a chisel and taking a chance of creating a spark”. He goes on and on about how dumb I was and when he was finished I asked him if he was done before I answered him. He said “yep, I’m done”. I then said I wasn’t using a steel chisel. I used a piece of copper sweat tubing (like what’s used in house supply plumbing) that I pounded flat on the end that struck the filler tube. I got one of those deer in the head light looks and he slithered away without another word. The other guys that were gathered around just smiled and asked for more details. Like the man said, “where there’s a will there’s a way”.

jmonroe

And who helped you push your car when the leaded fuel clogged up your cat?

explorerx4

@mjfloyd1,
Omarman has many times come through with some great GIFs.
I know enough about anatomy to figure out where the belly is.

roadburner

On the TV front, I'm going with either a 75" Samsung Q90T or a 75" Sony 950H. Sadly, the Q90T is actually a downgrade from last year's Q90. Even sadder, I can still get an 82" Q90- but it's $1,500 more than the 75" Q90T.

kyfdx

This is a family friendly forum. Thanks!

qbrozen

Tell ya what, if a local dealer screwed me out of a few hundred bucks, you can be damned sure I would be back in that office to speak with that person I handed my fobs to.

mjfloyd1

explorerx4 said:

@mjfloyd1,
Omarman has many times come through with some great GIFs.
I know enough about anatomy to figure out where the belly is.

I know but I offered no evidence 😂

mjfloyd1

qbrozen said:

Tell ya what, if a local dealer screwed me out of a few hundred bucks, you can be damned sure I would be back in that office to speak with that person I handed my fobs to.

That would be too obvious and logical

jmonroe1

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe1 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

An Indie Gas Station in town had their tanks loaded the wrong way, people who filled up with Diesel got PUG and those filling up with PUG got diesel. The oil company supplying the fuel made the mistake....it will be very costly to repair the cars....they estimate around 50 cars will be affected.
https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/ontario-gas-station-mixes-up-diesel-and-premium-ruining-some-drivers-cars

Both fuels must be ignited to perform, but diesel uses air compression and gasoline requires a spark plug. If you put diesel in your gas engine, it will chug along until any gas is burned and then stop: your car won’t fire the diesel.

The gas-in-diesel is more deadly to your engine. While various scenarios dictate the extent of damage (Did you start your car? How much [correct] fuel was already in the tank? How far did you drive and infiltrate your engine with the wrong fuel?) when a consumer has unwittingly been provided the wrong fuel, it makes for a worst case.

Can you imagine what you would have to go through if you were caught in this mess? Repairs, rental car, dealing with the oil company....not knowing if your car will ever be right. Makes you wonder too, is it worth it buying gas at an indie to save a few cents per gallon, and what happens to these cars when they get traded in - who is the next owner?

There are ways to prevent that from happening, if they cared, but obviously they don’t. It must be cheaper to fix screw ups than preventing them. No mercy for stupidity.

jmonroe

How do you prevent it when the supplier puts diesel in the PUG storage and puts PUG in the diesel storage?

That's what I would like to know too!

C’mon man, think about it for just a minute. Then, if you must, ask the question again.

jmonroe

I guess you could have "keyed" hose ends different for diesel and gas, but they could still put the wrong fuel in the truck.

You could also pump fuel and smell it but I have no idea how much fuel needs to be pumped to clear the lines to the nozzle

Having keyed nozzles is the answer but you have to do this all the way back to when you take the fuel out of the pipe lines from the refineries. Gas stations already have larger diameter nozzles on the the diesel nozzles to prevent them from being inserted in cars that require gas but the smaller diameter nozzle on the gas pumps can be inserted into the larger diameter filler tubes on diesel cars. This can be prevented by having a tab on the smaller diameter gas nozzle so it cannot enter the diesel cars filler tube. Now this would mean all drivers of gas powered cars would have to line up the tab on the nozzle to get it into their filler tube. Can you imagine all the moaning that gas powered cars owners would make if this happened? I’d be willing to bet that half of the women driving couldn’t do it and even some men couldn’t do it which is probably why car manufacturers haven’t done it.

On a related subject, remember when they first came out with “lead free gas” and they put a restricter in the filler tube of cars so you couldn’t put the larger diameter nozzle of “leaded gas” (that was still being sold for the older cars on the road) into cars designed for “lead free” gas? Back then the “leaded gas” was better for valve seats. So, me being a non-conformist, I decided to cut a few slots in the filler neck and open it up so I could get the larger diameter leaded nozzle into my “lead free” cars. When one wise guy at work wanted to know how I did this, I explained I took a rag and saturated it with oil then tied a small diameter piece of safety wire to the rag and pushed it into the filler tube so it would collect the metal saw dust created by a hack saw blade. Once I had a few relief cuts made in the restricter, I pulled out the rag that captured the metal saw dust then I whacked the metal to bend it in. This guy said something like, “that’s really brilliant, banging on a chisel and taking a chance of creating a spark”. He goes on and on about how dumb I was and when he was finished I asked him if he was done before I answered him. He said “yep, I’m done”. I then said I wasn’t using a steel chisel. I used a piece of copper sweat tubing (like what’s used in house supply plumbing) that I pounded flat on the end that struck the filler tube. I got one of those deer in the head light looks and he slithered away without another word. The other guys that were gathered around just smiled and asked for more details. Like the man said, “where there’s a will there’s a way”.

jmonroe

And who helped you push your car when the leaded fuel clogged up your cat?

I guess you weren’t listening when I said I drained the pellets from my ‘75 Grand Prix cat. Yes, it had a screwed in plug on the bottom of it that allowed for that and then I installed a catalytic converter “test pipe” that I got from J. C. Whitney. Next up was my ‘80 Park Ave. By then GM wised up and used a pressed in plug on the bottom of the catalytic converter, maybe because of me and guys like me. So there was no way I was going to possibly ruin the cat digging that out (might have to install it some day if a state inspection shop called me on it) but by then catalytic converter “test pipes” were easy to come by at the local parts stores. Yes you’re right, I thought of everything.

jmonroe

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

andres3 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

Sounds like you should make an appointment with the lease return manager

What would that accomplish after the fact? Give me the chance to tell them they suck to their face? I cut my losses of wasted time after several phone calls with the dealership.

You should have done that immediately when you got the bill. Unfortunately there is no reasoning with you.

I don't see what that would have changed. Based on my experience at a later time, I see no reason to believe that the dealership would have acted more friendly if I had complained more timely in-person. I laid out a very nice case over the phone and used all sugar instead of vinegar. The response and answers I got turned my sugar into vinegar. That GM for that dealership had no interest in doing the right thing. He made his bed and decision.

The negative reviews of the dealership came later.

mjfloyd1

How do you know if you did not show up in person and ask for a copy of the receipt?

These circular arguments are exhausting.

If you knew that you were screwed then you should have acted like you were screwed and paid the $350 to avoid your credit rating being jacked up. If you did not do so, that was your choice. Deal with it. Don't complain about it.

andres3

I had a job that was too time-consuming and stressful to show up in person in El Cajon (Kia of El Cajon) from Escondido. You are talking about an extra 15 minutes drive time to my already long commute, and that's 1-way. So 30 minutes on top of a 45 minute commute. And to get there before 5 PM on a weekday? Just proved too difficult. If the dealership was on the way home, rather than beyond home, it might have worked.

mjfloyd1

So you thought it was worthwhile to screw yourself.

Probably would have been worthwhile to work through your lunch break and then leave work early.

Case closed.

mjfloyd1

kyfdx said:

This is a family friendly forum. Thanks!

I really like my Sony but I’d probably check online reviews

andres3

qbrozen said:

Tell ya what, if a local dealer screwed me out of a few hundred bucks, you can be damned sure I would be back in that office to speak with that person I handed my fobs to.

Feel free to picket them for me. I'll help design the signs.

explorerx4

@mjfloyd1,
I figured I could trust YOU on that.

mjfloyd1

explorerx4 said:

@mjfloyd1,
I figured I could trust YOU on that.

I like how you think

mjfloyd1

andres3 said:

qbrozen said:

Tell ya what, if a local dealer screwed me out of a few hundred bucks, you can be damned sure I would be back in that office to speak with that person I handed my fobs to.

Feel free to picket them for me. I'll help design the signs.

Probably too far of a drive. Your 15 minutes vs his plane ride

They call me... Captain Obvious

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

How do you know if you did not show up in person and ask for a copy of the receipt?

These circular arguments are exhausting.

If you knew that you were screwed then you should have acted like you were screwed and paid the $350 to avoid your credit rating being jacked up. If you did not do so, that was your choice. Deal with it. Don't complain about it.

I had several conversations with both the Kia Finance collections people, and the dealership's assistant manager over the phone. I was able to ascertain that their paperwork said "1 Key Fob" based on what they told me verbally. The collections people thought that the dealership would take the doctored inaccurate document, and correct it, by changing the 1 to a 2. The dealership didn't want to do that.

The collections people insisted it wouldn't cost the dealership a penny to do so. My money is on that was a bold faced lie. I think the dealership knew they'd be on the hook for the $350 if they corrected the doctored record, and so they chose not to. The dealership decided to say they haven't lost a Key FOB in 8 years or something silly, rather than help me out.

Not a problem, Kia joins Rite Aid on the list of businesses I'd rather not do business with.

My list is deadly for companies. Circuit City was on the list. Look how they turned out.

mjfloyd1

Agreed but you were still in the same position. Either pay $350 and have intact credit or not pay $350 and Jack your credit up.

It would have cost the dealership the cost of the key fob plus programming. That’s not free.

This is where you pick your poison. If you pick jack up your credit then deal with it and don’t complain about the choice that you made

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

Agreed but you were still in the same position. Either pay $350 and have intact credit or not pay $350 and Jack your credit up.

It would have cost the dealership the cost of the key fob plus programming. That’s not free.

This is where you pick your poison. If you pick jack up your credit then deal with it and don’t complain about the choice that you made

I think were in agreement, just one minor correction.

The Key FOB being "found" would not have satisfied Kia Finance. They wanted $350, or an admission from the dealership that they received 2 Key FOB's from me. It was too late by the time I received a bill to "find the Key FOB." I told them that the charge was in error, it took them a long time to tell me that they didn't care that I told them the charge was in error, and that this was going to be a real problem.

Lastly, I didn't know $350 would change my credit score by 150 points. Turns out the repercussions were a bit more than I had estimated. I was also overly confident I'd win the "dispute" with the credit keepers. I definitely won't make that mistake again. I give 0% chance of winning a dispute unless it's some kind of fraud that you can prove.

This is where FICO needs some tweaking and improvement. The $350 has no bearing on my credit-worthiness. It is just a petty dispute between a bank and a consumer. All other debts has been paid on-time and in full just as Kia was except for this $350.

mjfloyd1

Choices have consequences.

They said that you owed $350. You told them to pound sand.

You ended up pounding sand.

You would have been better off paying $350.01. Then they would have spent money sending you letters and then a check for .01.

That’s how I play the game

dino001

Whatever. His point is you chose “high road”, but now complaining about having to pay the toll.

andres3

dino001 said:

Whatever. His point is you chose “high road”, but now complaining about having to pay the toll.

My complaint is lessened, now that I know I'm back up to 695. Almost 1/3 of the damage has been recouped on my credit score. Still, Kia Finance didn't have to report the account as a derogatory charge off. Seems like they get off on it though. Sort of like how I got some satisfaction from leaving the dealership a 1-star review on Google.

mjfloyd1

Exhausting

jmonroe1

mjfloyd1 said:

Exhausting

Only if you keep posting.

jmonroe

mjfloyd1

Agreed

snakeweasel

kyfdx said:

This is a family friendly forum. Thanks!

More like an Addams family friendly forum.

snakeweasel

mjfloyd1 said:

Choices have consequences.

They said that you owed $350. You told them to pound sand.

You ended up pounding sand.

You would have been better off paying $350.01. Then they would have spent money sending you letters and then a check for .01.

That’s how I play the game

Have you ever done that and if so have you ever gotten a check for the one cent?

qbrozen

andres3 said:

qbrozen said:

Tell ya what, if a local dealer screwed me out of a few hundred bucks, you can be damned sure I would be back in that office to speak with that person I handed my fobs to.

Feel free to picket them for me. I'll help design the signs.

Picketing? Good god, man. Building the sign would take more time than me going to confront the dude I handed my keys to.

mjfloyd1

snakeweasel said:

mjfloyd1 said:

Choices have consequences.

They said that you owed $350. You told them to pound sand.

You ended up pounding sand.

You would have been better off paying $350.01. Then they would have spent money sending you letters and then a check for .01.

That’s how I play the game

Have you ever done that and if so have you ever gotten a check for the one cent?

I have done that and I have gotten a check for .01

snakeweasel

mjfloyd1 said:

snakeweasel said:

mjfloyd1 said:

Choices have consequences.

They said that you owed $350. You told them to pound sand.

You ended up pounding sand.

You would have been better off paying $350.01. Then they would have spent money sending you letters and then a check for .01.

That’s how I play the game

Have you ever done that and if so have you ever gotten a check for the one cent?

I have done that and I have gotten a check for .01

Places I have worked at would have just treated the .01 as a rounding error and not issue a check.

stickguy

should have just snitched a fob at the dealer and handed that in as the 2nd one. Claim you found it afterwards. They would never be able to tell, since the car is long gone by that point.

hey, they just said you needed 2 fobs. Nothing in the fine print that they both have to work.

nyccarguy

omarman said:

mjfloyd1 said:

I'm in a pickle. A hospital sent me a bill for $96,000 for a robotic radical prostatectomy but they did not let me take the prostate gland home or send me pictures of the removed gland. I do have undetectable PSA levels but I am wondering if I should pay the bill or fight it since they are offering no evidence. I understand that I will be trashing my credit rating if I do not pay the bill.😂

They didn't even give me a receipt for the gland signed by either them or me...

I'd be careful asking for "proof" because the unreimbursed hospital and surgeon might offer to put it back where they found it! I can't find a specific emoji for that but that's probably just as well.

One of my favorite scenes from THE SOPRANOS:

“Double your garbage back if you aren’t satisfied.”

driver100

jmonroe1 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe1 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

An Indie Gas Station in town had their tanks loaded the wrong way, people who filled up with Diesel got PUG and those filling up with PUG got diesel. The oil company supplying the fuel made the mistake....it will be very costly to repair the cars....they estimate around 50 cars will be affected.
https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/ontario-gas-station-mixes-up-diesel-and-premium-ruining-some-drivers-cars

Both fuels must be ignited to perform, but diesel uses air compression and gasoline requires a spark plug. If you put diesel in your gas engine, it will chug along until any gas is burned and then stop: your car won’t fire the diesel.

The gas-in-diesel is more deadly to your engine. While various scenarios dictate the extent of damage (Did you start your car? How much [correct] fuel was already in the tank? How far did you drive and infiltrate your engine with the wrong fuel?) when a consumer has unwittingly been provided the wrong fuel, it makes for a worst case.

Can you imagine what you would have to go through if you were caught in this mess? Repairs, rental car, dealing with the oil company....not knowing if your car will ever be right. Makes you wonder too, is it worth it buying gas at an indie to save a few cents per gallon, and what happens to these cars when they get traded in - who is the next owner?

There are ways to prevent that from happening, if they cared, but obviously they don’t. It must be cheaper to fix screw ups than preventing them. No mercy for stupidity.

jmonroe

How do you prevent it when the supplier puts diesel in the PUG storage and puts PUG in the diesel storage?

That's what I would like to know too!

C’mon man, think about it for just a minute. Then, if you must, ask the question again.

jmonroe

I guess you could have "keyed" hose ends different for diesel and gas, but they could still put the wrong fuel in the truck.

You could also pump fuel and smell it but I have no idea how much fuel needs to be pumped to clear the lines to the nozzle

Having keyed nozzles is the answer but you have to do this all the way back to when you take the fuel out of the pipe lines from the refineries. Gas stations already have larger diameter nozzles on the the diesel nozzles to prevent them from being inserted in cars that require gas but the smaller diameter nozzle on the gas pumps can be inserted into the larger diameter filler tubes on diesel cars. This can be prevented by having a tab on the smaller diameter gas nozzle so it cannot enter the diesel cars filler tube. Now this would mean all drivers of gas powered cars would have to line up the tab on the nozzle to get it into their filler tube. Can you imagine all the moaning that gas powered cars owners would make if this happened? I’d be willing to bet that half of the women driving couldn’t do it and even some men couldn’t do it which is probably why car manufacturers haven’t done it.

On a related subject, remember when they first came out with “lead free gas” and they put a restricter in the filler tube of cars so you couldn’t put the larger diameter nozzle of “leaded gas” (that was still being sold for the older cars on the road) into cars designed for “lead free” gas? Back then the “leaded gas” was better for valve seats. So, me being a non-conformist, I decided to cut a few slots in the filler neck and open it up so I could get the larger diameter leaded nozzle into my “lead free” cars. When one wise guy at work wanted to know how I did this, I explained I took a rag and saturated it with oil then tied a small diameter piece of safety wire to the rag and pushed it into the filler tube so it would collect the metal saw dust created by a hack saw blade. Once I had a few relief cuts made in the restricter, I pulled out the rag that captured the metal saw dust then I whacked the metal to bend it in. This guy said something like, “that’s really brilliant, banging on a chisel and taking a chance of creating a spark”. He goes on and on about how dumb I was and when he was finished I asked him if he was done before I answered him. He said “yep, I’m done”. I then said I wasn’t using a steel chisel. I used a piece of copper sweat tubing (like what’s used in house supply plumbing) that I pounded flat on the end that struck the filler tube. I got one of those deer in the head light looks and he slithered away without another word. The other guys that were gathered around just smiled and asked for more details. Like the man said, “where there’s a will there’s a way”.

jmonroe

And who helped you push your car when the leaded fuel clogged up your cat?

I guess you weren’t listening when I said I drained the pellets from my ‘75 Grand Prix cat. Yes, it had a screwed in plug on the bottom of it that allowed for that and then I installed a catalytic converter “test pipe” that I got from J. C. Whitney. Next up was my ‘80 Park Ave. By then GM wised up and used a pressed in plug on the bottom of the catalytic converter, maybe because of me and guys like me. So there was no way I was going to possibly ruin the cat digging that out (might have to install it some day if a state inspection shop called me on it) but by then catalytic converter “test pipes” were easy to come by at the local parts stores. Yes you’re right, I thought of everything.

jmonroe

I forget....now why did you go through all this hassle so you could use leaded gas instead of unleaded....was it to save a few bucks? And what does all this messing have to do with putting the right fuel in the right tank? The oil company admitted it was their delivery persons fault, if they put the wrong fuel in the wrong tank how can the gas station owner or the customer know they are getting the wrong fuel ?

driver100

kyfdx said:

This is a family friendly forum. Thanks!

Yeh, be careful what you say, for the sake of the kids

driver100

mjfloyd1 said:

So you thought it was worthwhile to screw yourself.

Probably would have been worthwhile to work through your lunch break and then leave work early.

Case closed.

You should have heard about the watch he tried to return to CVS without a receipt. He wanted them to find the video footage of when he bought the watch. Maybe the garage has a video of the returning of the keyss!

driver100

mjfloyd1 said:

Exhausting

We have learned to scroll through.....you will never win.....or have closure!