Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

Michaell

stickguy said:

simple answer is to just pass through the delivery charge. if nothing else, a lot more people would go pick it up themselves. That is what I do. Hate delivery. so I order, prepay usually, then just show up and they hand it to you and you are off. Plus I make sure to arrive early so get it right out of the oven instead of sitting around for ages waiting for a driver to show up.

Exactly. Usually a couple times a week, I'll call in to our favorite Mexican/Italian/Pizza/Chinese/steakhouse restaurant and place an order for pickup. Gets me out of the house and I don't pay a third party to bring it to me.

Try to keep the money local, as much as possible. Only the steakhouse is part of a chain.

snakeweasel

ab348 said:

Speaking of restaurant problems, up here right now there is a lot of chatter about how local restos are being taken advantage of by outfits like Uber Eats, Skip the Dishes, DoorDash, etc, who have become very popular during the pandemic when sit-down eating has been eliminated for the most part. They are complaining that those orders are virtually zero profit for them because the delivery services charge them 30% off the top for their services, and incredibly, are calling for govt regulation of the percentage they can charge.

I don't understand why they don't have a take-out only menu with proportionally higher prices to offset the delivery fees. Nor do I accept that a typical mid-to-high-end sit down place is losing money on a $25-$30 entree where they don't have servers and other staff working except for those in the kitchen. Maybe I'm off-base, I dunno.

A restaurant still has costs that don't go away with the lock down. They still have to pay rent, clean, heat the building, and other utilities, maintain the property and equipment, service debt and the such. As for non kitchen staff you still have to have your manager working and people working the curbside pickup, not to mention the back office work that needs to be done. Add to that the fact that delivery services are taking a huge cut and sure they could lose money on a $25 entre.

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

they are building a Tim Hortons about a mile from my house. Will probably stop in once just to check it out, and then never again. We try to avoid donuts, and don't drink coffee. So not sure how much is left!

Based on what you just said, I agree with you. You don’t have much to live for.

jmonroe

Michaell

snakeweasel said:

ab348 said:

Speaking of restaurant problems, up here right now there is a lot of chatter about how local restos are being taken advantage of by outfits like Uber Eats, Skip the Dishes, DoorDash, etc, who have become very popular during the pandemic when sit-down eating has been eliminated for the most part. They are complaining that those orders are virtually zero profit for them because the delivery services charge them 30% off the top for their services, and incredibly, are calling for govt regulation of the percentage they can charge.

I don't understand why they don't have a take-out only menu with proportionally higher prices to offset the delivery fees. Nor do I accept that a typical mid-to-high-end sit down place is losing money on a $25-$30 entree where they don't have servers and other staff working except for those in the kitchen. Maybe I'm off-base, I dunno.

A restaurant still has costs that don't go away with the lock down. They still have to pay rent, clean, heat the building, and other utilities, maintain the property and equipment, service debt and the such. As for non kitchen staff you still have to have your manager working and people working the curbside pickup, not to mention the back office work that needs to be done. Add to that the fact that delivery services are taking a huge cut and sure they could lose money on a $25 entre.

All true - our kids cooking studio has had to shut down twice in the last year. The first time we were closed from mid-March to the end of May, then again from just before Thanksgiving to New Years Day.

Still had rent and utilities, plus debt servicing (though, luckily, not much debt). No staff costs, since we weren't holding camps, parties or classes. We were lucky to qualify for a grant through the CARES act that allowed us to supplement the lost revenue we had from December.

Now that we've been opened a few weeks, there is a lot of demand for our services, and we've also had quite a few registrations for our summer camps come in.

Here's hoping that we can stay open, and deliver all the services that folks have paid for.

oldfarmer50

omarman said:

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

My father in law explained to me that I was tipping too much because I figured the percentage before I subtracted any taxes. Yet he bought a new Park Avenue every three years- and would get hosed on the trade as well as the new four wheeled Barcalounger. I suggested that it would almost certainly be less expensive to lease a car rather than flipping one every 36 months, but he insisted that he wanted to own his car...

I used to tip 15% but lately I’ve become more generous. Yesterday I left $20 for a $14 lunch. I think wait staff have had it hard lately.

$34 lunch? "strip joint?" Nah, that sounds like Hooters.

Nah, $20 total. $6 tip. I’m not jmonroe rich you know.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
Here's the pic.

That doesn’t look too bad. If the hatch opens all you really need is a new tail light and screws to attach the bumper cover. If you can buy it back cheap it would be a good winter beater. My go-to body guy has patched up a few cars to pass inspection for a couple hundred dollars. Let’s say you buy it back for $500 and put another $500 into minimal repairs, you have yourself a good knock around vehicle.

Just wear dark glasses if you don’t like the disapproving stares of your neighbors.

Watch a few episodes of Auto Auction Rebuilds.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

they are building a Tim Hortons about a mile from my house. Will probably stop in once just to check it out, and then never again. We try to avoid donuts, and don't drink coffee. So not sure how much is left!

The only Tim Hortons I’ve ever seen in the states was in Greece NY just outside Rochester.

explorerx4

@oldfarmer50,
It's hard to see in that picture, but the left rear quarter is buckled, so floorpan damage underneath, too.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

Speaking of restaurant problems, up here right now there is a lot of chatter about how local restos are being taken advantage of by outfits like Uber Eats, Skip the Dishes, DoorDash, etc, who have become very popular during the pandemic when sit-down eating has been eliminated for the most part. They are complaining that those orders are virtually zero profit for them because the delivery services charge them 30% off the top for their services, and incredibly, are calling for govt regulation of the percentage they can charge.

I don't understand why they don't have a take-out only menu with proportionally higher prices to offset the delivery fees. Nor do I accept that a typical mid-to-high-end sit down place is losing money on a $25-$30 entree where they don't have servers and other staff working except for those in the kitchen. Maybe I'm off-base, I dunno.

I don’t think you’re off base at all. When any product is in high demand prices will tend to rise. In a free market the consumer is free to decide if the price is reasonable or go elsewhere. The “invisible hand” Adam Smith talked about in the 18th century.

Delivery service like Grubhub was charging 20-30% of the bill. This is what the market would bear. In come the local county politicians who decided to “help” by fixing the max delivery price at 5% because...you know...justice or something.

As expected this disrupted the market with the delivery services refusing to deliver to certain parts of town or not at all. My son went to order from a chain restaurant just down the hill and the app wouldn’t respond. Instead he had to order from the same chain in the adjacent county where the price cap was not in effect. The apps eventually did a work around and now put a surcharge on each order in effect negating the executive order.

I don’t know why politicians have trouble with the laws of supply and demand.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
It's hard to see in that picture, but the left rear quarter is buckled, so floorpan damage underneath, too.

I’ve driven vehicles that had no floors at all so it wouldn’t matter to me that it was damaged. I see your point though.

ab348

snakeweasel said:

ab348 said:

Speaking of restaurant problems, up here right now there is a lot of chatter about how local restos are being taken advantage of by outfits like Uber Eats, Skip the Dishes, DoorDash, etc, who have become very popular during the pandemic when sit-down eating has been eliminated for the most part. They are complaining that those orders are virtually zero profit for them because the delivery services charge them 30% off the top for their services, and incredibly, are calling for govt regulation of the percentage they can charge.

I don't understand why they don't have a take-out only menu with proportionally higher prices to offset the delivery fees. Nor do I accept that a typical mid-to-high-end sit down place is losing money on a $25-$30 entree where they don't have servers and other staff working except for those in the kitchen. Maybe I'm off-base, I dunno.

A restaurant still has costs that don't go away with the lock down. They still have to pay rent, clean, heat the building, and other utilities, maintain the property and equipment, service debt and the such. As for non kitchen staff you still have to have your manager working and people working the curbside pickup, not to mention the back office work that needs to be done. Add to that the fact that delivery services are taking a huge cut and sure they could lose money on a $25 entre.

Sure. But are they losing money netting $21 on a $30 item? They aren’t getting what they would have gotten but they aren’t paying servers, washing dishes or linens, etc. They are still getting a contribution towards that overhead you described. Got to be better than missing that sale entirely.

qbrozen

ab348 said:

Speaking of restaurant problems, up here right now there is a lot of chatter about how local restos are being taken advantage of by outfits like Uber Eats, Skip the Dishes, DoorDash, etc, who have become very popular during the pandemic when sit-down eating has been eliminated for the most part. They are complaining that those orders are virtually zero profit for them because the delivery services charge them 30% off the top for their services, and incredibly, are calling for govt regulation of the percentage they can charge.

I don't understand why they don't have a take-out only menu with proportionally higher prices to offset the delivery fees. Nor do I accept that a typical mid-to-high-end sit down place is losing money on a $25-$30 entree where they don't have servers and other staff working except for those in the kitchen. Maybe I'm off-base, I dunno.

I was not aware those services charge the restaurants as well as the consumers. Wow, they must be raking it in.

I’ve used all the services during these past many months. I have discovered that the cost of items is indeed higher through them than through the restaurant directly. Add the fees and we’re talking a BIG difference. For example, was trying to order for the wife’s bday this past weekend. Total with fees and tip came to $169. BUT, then doordash said I was not allowed to break $100 on the order. Fine, so I went to the restaurant website and placed the same exact order. It came to $129! Yeah, I’ll pick it up myself for $40!!

snakeweasel

ab348 said:

snakeweasel said:

ab348 said:

Speaking of restaurant problems, up here right now there is a lot of chatter about how local restos are being taken advantage of by outfits like Uber Eats, Skip the Dishes, DoorDash, etc, who have become very popular during the pandemic when sit-down eating has been eliminated for the most part. They are complaining that those orders are virtually zero profit for them because the delivery services charge them 30% off the top for their services, and incredibly, are calling for govt regulation of the percentage they can charge.

I don't understand why they don't have a take-out only menu with proportionally higher prices to offset the delivery fees. Nor do I accept that a typical mid-to-high-end sit down place is losing money on a $25-$30 entree where they don't have servers and other staff working except for those in the kitchen. Maybe I'm off-base, I dunno.

A restaurant still has costs that don't go away with the lock down. They still have to pay rent, clean, heat the building, and other utilities, maintain the property and equipment, service debt and the such. As for non kitchen staff you still have to have your manager working and people working the curbside pickup, not to mention the back office work that needs to be done. Add to that the fact that delivery services are taking a huge cut and sure they could lose money on a $25 entre.

Sure. But are they losing money netting $21 on a $30 item? They aren’t getting what they would have gotten but they aren’t paying servers, washing dishes or linens, etc. They are still getting a contribution towards that overhead you described. Got to be better than missing that sale entirely.

Typical restaurant margins wouldn't come close to supporting a 30% hit. Sure you're not paying servers but you have to pay someone to get the product to the deliverer, Sure you're not washing dishes and linens but you have to pay for all the take out packaging.

ab348

snakeweasel said:

Typical restaurant margins wouldn't come close to supporting a 30% hit. Sure you're not paying servers but you have to pay someone to get the product to the deliverer, Sure you're not washing dishes and linens but you have to pay for all the take out packaging.

If that's true then why would they sign up with these outfits in the first place then?

ab348

qbrozen said:

I was not aware those services charge the restaurants as well as the consumers. Wow, they must be raking it in.

I’ve used all the services during these past many months. I have discovered that the cost of items is indeed higher through them than through the restaurant directly. Add the fees and we’re talking a BIG difference. For example, was trying to order for the wife’s bday this past weekend. Total with fees and tip came to $169. BUT, then doordash said I was not allowed to break $100 on the order. Fine, so I went to the restaurant website and placed the same exact order. It came to $129! Yeah, I’ll pick it up myself for $40!!

When I heard the complaints from the resto owners my first thought was, why not just use a taxi or set up your own delivery service like pizzerias/Asian restos typically do.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

snakeweasel said:

Typical restaurant margins wouldn't come close to supporting a 30% hit. Sure you're not paying servers but you have to pay someone to get the product to the deliverer, Sure you're not washing dishes and linens but you have to pay for all the take out packaging.

If that's true then why would they sign up with these outfits in the first place then?

Desperation.

I’d like to hear Mitchaell’s take on this as he used to deliver pizzas. He should know the relative costs of delivery vs take out.

stickguy

restaurants took the deal so they could stay in business. Probably the services took advantage. But unless they are in collusion, competition among them should sort things out.

Restaurants also had extra costs. Those big outdoor propane heaters aren't cheap (and all the propane tanks). And everything else they did to handle outdoor dining.

some local places by me really did a good job servicing outside until winter hit, and went all in on a good take out system. Probably doing darned near as much, if not more, total business. And your favorite pizza/Italian place is so busy on the weekends it is hard for them to keep up. But they always did a fairly small eat in business, so were prepared for all the takeout and delivery.

we try to avoid any kind of chain place anyway, even more so now.

imidazol97

Gasoline prices are jumping up the last weeks and now today another big jump in this area.
We're up to $2.499 for RUG and $3.099 PUG.

stickguy

I have noticed that too around here. going up quick.

explorerx4

Those restaurants are paying for the delivery service, brand recognition and not having to vet/hire their own drivers.

roadburner

jmonroe1 said:

stickguy said:

they are building a Tim Hortons about a mile from my house. Will probably stop in once just to check it out, and then never again. We try to avoid donuts, and don't drink coffee. So not sure how much is left!

Based on what you just said, I agree with you. You don’t have much to live for.

jmonroe

My wife used to be a Registered Dietician; she would come home and mention that a patient died. I’d often suggest that once the patient saw his dietary restrictions he probably lost the will to live.

driver100

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

kyfdx said:

stickguy said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

driver100 said:

Reminds me of a certain unnamed person who goes to Wendy and gets a $1.49 Jr Burger and a 25 cent Seniors Coke...........how do you have the nerve asking for a kids burger and a seniors drink to go with it?
Personally, I don't think I would eat that if they paid me $5 to eat it!
It is pathetic for the poor business owner too, how is he supposed to survive with someone thinking they are outsmarting him by buying a loss leader item?

Same person would go to a little restaurant and buy a $1.99 breakfast every morning...2 eggs, bacon, home fries and toast....with coffee and tax came to $2.74 every morning for years.
One morning he went in and it came to $2.86 so he asked the owner why the price increased. The owner told him to get out of his restaurant and to never return again.
I am not sure if it was a slight increase in price or if he had asked for an extra jam!

Driver, that’s a sandwich on the regular menu, not a kids meal. Jr. just means a smaller patty. When we stop there, we always get a Jr. cheeseburger deluxe.

The soda is no big deal. They actually give you free refills (though many stores now have self serve drink machines).

I didn't realize that but how can they make a profit on a 99 cent hamburger....I am almost afraid to ask?
And how does Checkers in Florida - I have never been there - sell 2 hamburgers, 2 fries, 2 drinks for like $3, does it qualify as food? Maybe it is delicious, I am afraid to try it!
The soft drinks I get....they cost almost nothing to make.

material cost is low. Might be a loss leader. Make it up in volume. But most people buy more expensive stuff, so in aggregate, they make more (higher average). But they never made all that much on us when the wife and I would stop. 2 Jr. deluxe burgers, one small fry to split and 1 drink to share (sometimes 2 baby fries since I always get yelled at for taking one too many). Ends up being a whopping $6-$7.

Plus.. American Dollars.

I checked the Canadian website...Deluxe Jr Burger in Canada is $1.39, now don't tell me it is less than that in the U.S.
It costs less to buy a Jr Burger than it would cost to make your own lunch! (not saying whether it is better or not). Probably the paper packaging has more nutrition.

Isn't Wendy's and Tim Horton's owned by the same corporation?

Wendys acquired Tim's in 1995, but set it free later, and in 2014 U.S.- and Brazil-based 3G Capital merged it with Burger King under a new parent company, Restaurant Brands International. Lots of cost cutting done by each, not the same but still the number one food chain in Canada.
One cost saving measure was making donuts and freezing them in central locations. Before each store made their own, bakers had to start at 4 a.m. and if they didn't show up it was a major problem. But, anyone can heat them up at anytime. Quality went down, but efficiency improved.........

Michaell

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

snakeweasel said:

Typical restaurant margins wouldn't come close to supporting a 30% hit. Sure you're not paying servers but you have to pay someone to get the product to the deliverer, Sure you're not washing dishes and linens but you have to pay for all the take out packaging.

If that's true then why would they sign up with these outfits in the first place then?

Desperation.

I’d like to hear Mitchaell’s take on this as he used to deliver pizzas. He should know the relative costs of delivery vs take out.

Costs? To the store or the customer?

The only difference with delivery is that we added a $2 delivery surcharge, half of which went to the driver. Then, there was whatever tip the customer gave us.

To the store, the $1 given to the driver. From a payroll perspective, there was a change during my tenure. Initially, we got $5/hr all the time. Then, it switched to a lower rate when we were out of the store doing delivery, and the state mandated minimum wage when we were in the store. My paycheck was never really all that large; it was the tips I took home each night that made the job worth it.

I have detailed records of all my tips that I earned. Over 6.5 years, I averaged $11.55/hr in tips alone.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

ab348 said:

Speaking of restaurant problems, up here right now there is a lot of chatter about how local restos are being taken advantage of by outfits like Uber Eats, Skip the Dishes, DoorDash, etc, who have become very popular during the pandemic when sit-down eating has been eliminated for the most part. They are complaining that those orders are virtually zero profit for them because the delivery services charge them 30% off the top for their services, and incredibly, are calling for govt regulation of the percentage they can charge.

I don't understand why they don't have a take-out only menu with proportionally higher prices to offset the delivery fees. Nor do I accept that a typical mid-to-high-end sit down place is losing money on a $25-$30 entree where they don't have servers and other staff working except for those in the kitchen. Maybe I'm off-base, I dunno.

A restaurant still has costs that don't go away with the lock down. They still have to pay rent, clean, heat the building, and other utilities, maintain the property and equipment, service debt and the such. As for non kitchen staff you still have to have your manager working and people working the curbside pickup, not to mention the back office work that needs to be done. Add to that the fact that delivery services are taking a huge cut and sure they could lose money on a $25 entre.

....also not as much spent on alcohol and people don't spend as much as they would if they dined in......and business is down by a lot. Few restaurants can be profitable with 30% delivery charges.

driver100

Michaell said:

snakeweasel said:

ab348 said:

Speaking of restaurant problems, up here right now there is a lot of chatter about how local restos are being taken advantage of by outfits like Uber Eats, Skip the Dishes, DoorDash, etc, who have become very popular during the pandemic when sit-down eating has been eliminated for the most part. They are complaining that those orders are virtually zero profit for them because the delivery services charge them 30% off the top for their services, and incredibly, are calling for govt regulation of the percentage they can charge.

I don't understand why they don't have a take-out only menu with proportionally higher prices to offset the delivery fees. Nor do I accept that a typical mid-to-high-end sit down place is losing money on a $25-$30 entree where they don't have servers and other staff working except for those in the kitchen. Maybe I'm off-base, I dunno.

A restaurant still has costs that don't go away with the lock down. They still have to pay rent, clean, heat the building, and other utilities, maintain the property and equipment, service debt and the such. As for non kitchen staff you still have to have your manager working and people working the curbside pickup, not to mention the back office work that needs to be done. Add to that the fact that delivery services are taking a huge cut and sure they could lose money on a $25 entre.

All true - our kids cooking studio has had to shut down twice in the last year. The first time we were closed from mid-March to the end of May, then again from just before Thanksgiving to New Years Day.

Still had rent and utilities, plus debt servicing (though, luckily, not much debt). No staff costs, since we weren't holding camps, parties or classes. We were lucky to qualify for a grant through the CARES act that allowed us to supplement the lost revenue we had from December.

Now that we've been opened a few weeks, there is a lot of demand for our services, and we've also had quite a few registrations for our summer camps come in.

Here's hoping that we can stay open, and deliver all the services that folks have paid for.

I am so glad we are retired from our business while covid is going on. It would be hard to stay in business, let alone try and make a profit. I really feel for business people. They often put everything on the line to build a business, and then through no fault of their own they have to make it through something like this.

driver100

Michaell said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

snakeweasel said:

Typical restaurant margins wouldn't come close to supporting a 30% hit. Sure you're not paying servers but you have to pay someone to get the product to the deliverer, Sure you're not washing dishes and linens but you have to pay for all the take out packaging.

If that's true then why would they sign up with these outfits in the first place then?

Desperation.

I’d like to hear Mitchaell’s take on this as he used to deliver pizzas. He should know the relative costs of delivery vs take out.

Costs? To the store or the customer?

The only difference with delivery is that we added a $2 delivery surcharge, half of which went to the driver. Then, there was whatever tip the customer gave us.

To the store, the $1 given to the driver. From a payroll perspective, there was a change during my tenure. Initially, we got $5/hr all the time. Then, it switched to a lower rate when we were out of the store doing delivery, and the state mandated minimum wage when we were in the store. My paycheck was never really all that large; it was the tips I took home each night that made the job worth it.

I have detailed records of all my tips that I earned. Over 6.5 years, I averaged $11.55/hr in tips alone.

Pizza is a bit different. Large volume of take-out orders and most of the delivery cost is built into the price of the pizza. Also, pizza is an extremely profitable item. When they charge $2 delivery charge all of that should go to the delivery person, why should they make anything on the delivery part? If a restaurants business always had a large take-out component than they could do even better during covid...they are set up for these times. Now, what if a pizza place had to pay a delivery service 30% of the price of the pizza....even they would have a hard time making a profit? Instead they get 100% of the price plus $1!

ab348

explorerx4 said:

Those restaurants are paying for the delivery service, brand recognition and not having to vet/hire their own drivers.

So in that case the 30% is buying them something they do not/cannot provide for themselves.

Who knows what the margin is for the delivery services. Is it half of the 30%? We simply don't know.

The reality is that being a bar/resto is probably one of the worst businesses one could be in during this situation. Asking govt regulators to enact rules that put delivery services into a loss position isn't going to do anyone any good, as those services will simply disappear.

If resto owners don't want to take on the delivery themselves then they need to price their delivery items accordingly to what the cost base including delivery is and then sink or swim instead of playing the victim card. I'm reminded of the old line:

"Mr. Business Owner, you've priced everything below cost and are losing money on every item you sell!"

"Yes, but we make it up on volume!"

tjc78

We ordered a chain restaurant with one of the services (Doordash, maybe) and it took so long the food was cold. I called the restaurant and they said they make dozens of orders and they just sit waiting for the service to pick them up.

The systems are not only money bleeders, but grossly unrefined. I’m sure everything they do is 100% reactionary right now as their volume went up exponentially almost over night.

I’ll never order food that way. It will either be picked up or from a restaurant that has their own drivers.

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

snakeweasel said:

Typical restaurant margins wouldn't come close to supporting a 30% hit. Sure you're not paying servers but you have to pay someone to get the product to the deliverer, Sure you're not washing dishes and linens but you have to pay for all the take out packaging.

If that's true then why would they sign up with these outfits in the first place then?

Desperation.

I’d like to hear Mitchaell’s take on this as he used to deliver pizzas. He should know the relative costs of delivery vs take out.

Costs? To the store or the customer?

The only difference with delivery is that we added a $2 delivery surcharge, half of which went to the driver. Then, there was whatever tip the customer gave us.

To the store, the $1 given to the driver. From a payroll perspective, there was a change during my tenure. Initially, we got $5/hr all the time. Then, it switched to a lower rate when we were out of the store doing delivery, and the state mandated minimum wage when we were in the store. My paycheck was never really all that large; it was the tips I took home each night that made the job worth it.

I have detailed records of all my tips that I earned. Over 6.5 years, I averaged $11.55/hr in tips alone.

$1 to the driver? Boy that’s cheap. I wonder what UberEats and Grubhub pay? I’m not sure that in my state that would be allowed. I’m guessing minimum wage for all work time. On a delivery that takes a half hour that might account for a 30% fee.

I look at my son’s Uber job and wonder how anybody can make much money doing it. Some of the drivers at work do a similar delivery service called Roadie. It’s a package delivery service for all sorts of stuff from places like Home Depot. Drivers get paid by the trip. One guy was bragging how he made $12,000 in six months. I asked him how many miles he put on his brand new truck doing that. He said something like 30K miles. I asked him if he had calculated how much depreciation he had suffered in that time and he had no clue. A few weeks later he quit and got a job doing deliveries for a car dealer. He must have done the math.

venture

roadburner said:

jmonroe1 said:

stickguy said:

they are building a Tim Hortons about a mile from my house. Will probably stop in once just to check it out, and then never again. We try to avoid donuts, and don't drink coffee. So not sure how much is left!

Based on what you just said, I agree with you. You don’t have much to live for.

jmonroe

My wife used to be a Registered Dietician; she would come home and mention that a patient died. I’d often suggest that once the patient saw his dietary restrictions he probably lost the will to live.

Easy. If it tastes good, spit it out.

roadburner

venture said:

roadburner said:

jmonroe1 said:

stickguy said:

they are building a Tim Hortons about a mile from my house. Will probably stop in once just to check it out, and then never again. We try to avoid donuts, and don't drink coffee. So not sure how much is left!

Based on what you just said, I agree with you. You don’t have much to live for.

jmonroe

My wife used to be a Registered Dietician; she would come home and mention that a patient died. I’d often suggest that once the patient saw his dietary restrictions he probably lost the will to live.

Easy. If it tastes good, spit it out.

My wife didn’t appreciate that comment either.
I used to say that I thought I would get off easier if she caught me with a 22 year old Hooters waitress than I would if she caught me with a cream filled Krispy Kreme doughnut.

tjc78

We are back on a health kick. Early 2020 was a tough year and put lots of weight back on. Trying to get back on track. Haven’t had a drink since New Years and been eating clean. It’s tough to do, but worth it in the end.

We haven’t had take out or gone out to eat either. Valentine’s Day will probably be our first restaurant trip this year.

stickguy

I stayed about the same (within a few pounds up or down) but the wife backslid a bit. Trying to also get back focused on getting back on the healthier lifestyle, but between work pressure and sore feet, it’s been hard.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

Michaell said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

snakeweasel said:

Typical restaurant margins wouldn't come close to supporting a 30% hit. Sure you're not paying servers but you have to pay someone to get the product to the deliverer, Sure you're not washing dishes and linens but you have to pay for all the take out packaging.

If that's true then why would they sign up with these outfits in the first place then?

Desperation.

I’d like to hear Mitchaell’s take on this as he used to deliver pizzas. He should know the relative costs of delivery vs take out.

Costs? To the store or the customer?

The only difference with delivery is that we added a $2 delivery surcharge, half of which went to the driver. Then, there was whatever tip the customer gave us.

To the store, the $1 given to the driver. From a payroll perspective, there was a change during my tenure. Initially, we got $5/hr all the time. Then, it switched to a lower rate when we were out of the store doing delivery, and the state mandated minimum wage when we were in the store. My paycheck was never really all that large; it was the tips I took home each night that made the job worth it.

I have detailed records of all my tips that I earned. Over 6.5 years, I averaged $11.55/hr in tips alone.

$1 to the driver? Boy that’s cheap. I wonder what UberEats and Grubhub pay? I’m not sure that in my state that would be allowed. I’m guessing minimum wage for all work time. On a delivery that takes a half hour that might account for a 30% fee.

I look at my son’s Uber job and wonder how anybody can make much money doing it. Some of the drivers at work do a similar delivery service called Roadie. It’s a package delivery service for all sorts of stuff from places like Home Depot. Drivers get paid by the trip. One guy was bragging how he made $12,000 in six months. I asked him how many miles he put on his brand new truck doing that. He said something like 30K miles. I asked him if he had calculated how much depreciation he had suffered in that time and he had no clue. A few weeks later he quit and got a job doing deliveries for a car dealer. He must have done the math.

I have a few clients that to Uber/Lyft work and looking at their taxes there is no way that I would even consider it. The miles you put on you vehicle just isn't worth what they pay you.

Now back in the 80's I knew a kid that owned a Town Car and did his own limo service on the side. He actually did OK on that.

snakeweasel

roadburner said:

jmonroe1 said:

stickguy said:

they are building a Tim Hortons about a mile from my house. Will probably stop in once just to check it out, and then never again. We try to avoid donuts, and don't drink coffee. So not sure how much is left!

Based on what you just said, I agree with you. You don’t have much to live for.

jmonroe

My wife used to be a Registered Dietician; she would come home and mention that a patient died. I’d often suggest that once the patient saw his dietary restrictions he probably lost the will to live.

My wife is an activities coordinator at a nursing home. Since she is working with people in the final part of their journey through life she is frequently mentioning someone dying at work. It really bums her out at times.

snakeweasel

tjc78 said:

We are back on a health kick. Early 2020 was a tough year and put lots of weight back on. Trying to get back on track. Haven’t had a drink since New Years and been eating clean. It’s tough to do, but worth it in the end.

We haven’t had take out or gone out to eat either. Valentine’s Day will probably be our first restaurant trip this year.

I also have increased the work load of my chair and now I'm trying to reduce that workload.

jmonroe1

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

snakeweasel said:

Typical restaurant margins wouldn't come close to supporting a 30% hit. Sure you're not paying servers but you have to pay someone to get the product to the deliverer, Sure you're not washing dishes and linens but you have to pay for all the take out packaging.

If that's true then why would they sign up with these outfits in the first place then?

Desperation.

I’d like to hear Mitchaell’s take on this as he used to deliver pizzas. He should know the relative costs of delivery vs take out.

Costs? To the store or the customer?

The only difference with delivery is that we added a $2 delivery surcharge, half of which went to the driver. Then, there was whatever tip the customer gave us.

To the store, the $1 given to the driver. From a payroll perspective, there was a change during my tenure. Initially, we got $5/hr all the time. Then, it switched to a lower rate when we were out of the store doing delivery, and the state mandated minimum wage when we were in the store. My paycheck was never really all that large; it was the tips I took home each night that made the job worth it.

I have detailed records of all my tips that I earned. Over 6.5 years, I averaged $11.55/hr in tips alone.

Pizza is a bit different. Large volume of take-out orders and most of the delivery cost is built into the price of the pizza. Also, pizza is an extremely profitable item. When they charge $2 delivery charge all of that should go to the delivery person, why should they make anything on the delivery part? If a restaurants business always had a large take-out component than they could do even better during covid...they are set up for these times. Now, what if a pizza place had to pay a delivery service 30% of the price of the pizza....even they would have a hard time making a profit? Instead they get 100% of the price plus $1!

Once again you surprise me, then again maybe not. Why should a pizza shop owner give a buck of his delivery charge to the driver. It’s his store and he’s in business to make as much as he can. If his prices are more than his competitors he either lowers his price or goes away. Cheapening his product will hasten his departure. Of course charging a little more for quality can keep him in business and I get my pizzas from a shop that is a little more than the run of the mill shops in my area but I know it’s worth it to me.

Years ago I kidded with guy I knew who had a smallish menswear shop about why he didn’t have as many sales as his competitors? His answer was he priced his clothing right which was proven by the business he did. He then relayed to me what his father (who started the biz) said to him, “you don’t give away what you can sell”. That sounded logical to me. You as a past business owner should know this.

jmonroe

graphicguy

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

jmonroe1 said:

Funny you should ask. In the late 80’s I did get a chance to do some sightseeing up that way. It was the week before Thanksgiving and Mrs. j came along that time. We stayed at the Oxnard Embassy Suites and while I worked Mrs. j lounged at the beach reading a book. It was not warm enough to go into the ocean but plenty of sun. I always took the week of Thanksgiving off so we drove up the coast the following week to Santa Barbara and a town that was like an old German village, kinda novel place but I can’t remember the name of that place. Even went to a famous place called the Pea Soup Inn which was in a Best Western Motel.

On the way back to LA we stopped off at Pepperdine University. Went to the top of the hill overlooking Malibu. That night we stayed at some place in Malibu then went to a restaurant for breakfast that was quite famous (can’t remember the name of that joint either) it had menu items and booths named after actors and actresses. To this day Mrs. j says she’d like to go back and do that again but so far we haven’t. To be honest, it was nice but it’s not on my bucket list.

EDIT: I just remembered the name of that old German village. I’m almost positive it was Solvang. Still can’t remember the name of the restaurant.

jmonroe

Hey, JM, w :@ ith your advanced age life experience, you should hang out over in the Mystery Car Pix board on here and regale us with these sort of stories about the places shown.

Yeh, JM's story must have happened about 60 years ago.......a nickel beer!

HEY, get your poster buddies straight. @venture is the guy who mentioned nickel beers not me. :@ However, I remember 2 cent beers to promote a charity back in my working days. Who says you can’t get a buzz for a dime?

jmonroe

Oh yeh, he was replying to your post but both stories were blasts from the past.
We used to go to the bar after volleyball in the old days.....when we ordered drinks they gave us free wings. One guy in the group never bought a drink, but sure ate as many wings as he could......and it wasn't me!

We used to hang out at a place that every Sunday had a deal where for a $10 cover charge you had a free buffet and two free drinks (beer and well drinks nothing fancy). It was a pretty good deal and we did take advantage of it often.

Sounds like a strip joint.

I’ve heard of those places and always thought....”who would want to eat...at a buffet...where women were naked and the men were sleazy?” Go ahead....raise your hands.

Michaell

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

snakeweasel said:

Typical restaurant margins wouldn't come close to supporting a 30% hit. Sure you're not paying servers but you have to pay someone to get the product to the deliverer, Sure you're not washing dishes and linens but you have to pay for all the take out packaging.

If that's true then why would they sign up with these outfits in the first place then?

Desperation.

I’d like to hear Mitchaell’s take on this as he used to deliver pizzas. He should know the relative costs of delivery vs take out.

Costs? To the store or the customer?

The only difference with delivery is that we added a $2 delivery surcharge, half of which went to the driver. Then, there was whatever tip the customer gave us.

To the store, the $1 given to the driver. From a payroll perspective, there was a change during my tenure. Initially, we got $5/hr all the time. Then, it switched to a lower rate when we were out of the store doing delivery, and the state mandated minimum wage when we were in the store. My paycheck was never really all that large; it was the tips I took home each night that made the job worth it.

I have detailed records of all my tips that I earned. Over 6.5 years, I averaged $11.55/hr in tips alone.

Pizza is a bit different. Large volume of take-out orders and most of the delivery cost is built into the price of the pizza. Also, pizza is an extremely profitable item. When they charge $2 delivery charge all of that should go to the delivery person, why should they make anything on the delivery part? If a restaurants business always had a large take-out component than they could do even better during covid...they are set up for these times. Now, what if a pizza place had to pay a delivery service 30% of the price of the pizza....even they would have a hard time making a profit? Instead they get 100% of the price plus $1!

Once again you surprise me, then again maybe not. Why should a pizza shop owner give a buck of his delivery charge to the driver. It’s his store and he’s in business to make as much as he can. If his prices are more than his competitors he either lowers his price or goes away. Cheapening his product will hasten his departure. Of course charging a little more for quality can keep him in business and I get my pizzas from a shop that is a little more than the run of the mill shops in my area but I know it’s worth it to me.

Years ago I kidded with guy I knew who had a smallish menswear shop about why he didn’t have as many sales as his competitors? His answer was he priced his clothing right which was proven by the business he did. He then relayed to me what his father (who started the biz) said to him, “you don’t give away what you can sell”. That sounded logical to me. You as a past business owner should know this.

jmonroe

The franchise owner of the store I worked in owned, I think, 15-20 stores, half in Colorado and half in the Dallas area. The owner's son would come into the store on Friday and Saturday nights and help out on the line - he was a good guy.

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

I stayed about the same (within a few pounds up or down) but the wife backslid a bit. Trying to also get back focused on getting back on the healthier lifestyle, but between work pressure and sore feet, it’s been hard.

Hint, go into the house flipping biz. I’m down about 25 pounds (pretty soon I’ll disappear) and have donuts without guilt on occasion. Life’s good, you just have to know how to live it.

jmonroe

ab348

Years ago I was friends with a fellow who ran a pizza shop. The way his operation worked was that no pizza left the place unless it was paid for. So on deliveries, he would collect the menu price from the delivery driver before he left. Anything the driver collected upon delivery was all his.

venture

roadburner said:

venture said:

roadburner said:

jmonroe1 said:

stickguy said:

they are building a Tim Hortons about a mile from my house. Will probably stop in once just to check it out, and then never again. We try to avoid donuts, and don't drink coffee. So not sure how much is left!

Based on what you just said, I agree with you. You don’t have much to live for.

jmonroe

My wife used to be a Registered Dietician; she would come home and mention that a patient died. I’d often suggest that once the patient saw his dietary restrictions he probably lost the will to live.

Easy. If it tastes good, spit it out.

My wife didn’t appreciate that comment either.
I used to say that I thought I would get off easier if she caught me with a 22 year old Hooters waitress than I would if she caught me with a cream filled Krispy Kreme doughnut.

You couldn't get away with it either?

venture

tjc78 said:

We are back on a health kick. Early 2020 was a tough year and put lots of weight back on. Trying to get back on track. Haven’t had a drink since New Years and been eating clean. It’s tough to do, but worth it in the end.

We haven’t had take out or gone out to eat either. Valentine’s Day will probably be our first restaurant trip this year.

At my last check up with my doctor in, I think, October, as I was leaving he said, "You should try to lose a little weight".

That really took me by surprise because nobody has ever said that to me before. I was about to go over 200 pounds, but being 6'-1" it didn't seem like a lot. That being said I am usually around 185 - 190. Hibernation.

driver100

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

snakeweasel said:

Typical restaurant margins wouldn't come close to supporting a 30% hit. Sure you're not paying servers but you have to pay someone to get the product to the deliverer, Sure you're not washing dishes and linens but you have to pay for all the take out packaging.

If that's true then why would they sign up with these outfits in the first place then?

Desperation.

I’d like to hear Mitchaell’s take on this as he used to deliver pizzas. He should know the relative costs of delivery vs take out.

Costs? To the store or the customer?

The only difference with delivery is that we added a $2 delivery surcharge, half of which went to the driver. Then, there was whatever tip the customer gave us.

To the store, the $1 given to the driver. From a payroll perspective, there was a change during my tenure. Initially, we got $5/hr all the time. Then, it switched to a lower rate when we were out of the store doing delivery, and the state mandated minimum wage when we were in the store. My paycheck was never really all that large; it was the tips I took home each night that made the job worth it.

I have detailed records of all my tips that I earned. Over 6.5 years, I averaged $11.55/hr in tips alone.

Pizza is a bit different. Large volume of take-out orders and most of the delivery cost is built into the price of the pizza. Also, pizza is an extremely profitable item. When they charge $2 delivery charge all of that should go to the delivery person, why should they make anything on the delivery part? If a restaurants business always had a large take-out component than they could do even better during covid...they are set up for these times. Now, what if a pizza place had to pay a delivery service 30% of the price of the pizza....even they would have a hard time making a profit? Instead they get 100% of the price plus $1!

Once again you surprise me, then again maybe not. Why should a pizza shop owner give a buck of his delivery charge to the driver. It’s his store and he’s in business to make as much as he can. If his prices are more than his competitors he either lowers his price or goes away. Cheapening his product will hasten his departure. Of course charging a little more for quality can keep him in business and I get my pizzas from a shop that is a little more than the run of the mill shops in my area but I know it’s worth it to me.

Years ago I kidded with guy I knew who had a smallish menswear shop about why he didn’t have as many sales as his competitors? His answer was he priced his clothing right which was proven by the business he did. He then relayed to me what his father (who started the biz) said to him, “you don’t give away what you can sell”. That sounded logical to me. You as a past business owner should know this.

jmonroe

If the pizza costs $20 the store charges $20 plus a $2 delivery charge........the full $2 should go to the delivery guy. The store made it's money from the pizza, the delivery charge is not an expense for them. The driver could theoretically not get any tips, deliver 10 pizzas and make $10 which wouldn't cover the cost of gas. $20 would at least be closer....and why should a delivery person have to depend on tips to make a living? Only you would see that as fair.

The mens wear shop made a decision....either you charge full price and your customer is willing to pay that to get extra quality and service, or you discount and do it on volume. Both make sense, just depends on what market you are aiming for.

carnaught

Locally, the Door Dash type of delivering places became notorious. There are isolated stories of French fries being depleted, coleslaw missing and even a report of a bite or two in the food - eww...

jmonroe1

Hey @roadburner, I just thought of this. I should commented about it when you posted this (better late than never). You said your wife was a “Registered Dietitian”. You really are hung up on the registered thingy, huh?

jmonroe

stickguy

jmonroe1 said:

stickguy said:

I stayed about the same (within a few pounds up or down) but the wife backslid a bit. Trying to also get back focused on getting back on the healthier lifestyle, but between work pressure and sore feet, it’s been hard.

Hint, go into the house flipping biz. I’m down about 25 pounds (pretty soon I’ll disappear) and have donuts without guilt on occasion. Life’s good, you just have to know how to live it.

jmonroe

She’s too busy with work to flip houses, and knows nothing about tools. Though I did teach her how to change outlets! I’m skinny enough already.

qbrozen

jmonroe1 said:

stickguy said:

I stayed about the same (within a few pounds up or down) but the wife backslid a bit. Trying to also get back focused on getting back on the healthier lifestyle, but between work pressure and sore feet, it’s been hard.

Hint, go into the house flipping biz. I’m down about 25 pounds (pretty soon I’ll disappear) and have donuts without guilt on occasion. Life’s good, you just have to know how to live it.

jmonroe

That is probably something I could do. Have to get the damned renters out of my other house first so I can sell that. Lol.

fintail

Don't come out this way to flip, I think all spots are filled - prices are up 20% YOY, the lower end of the market is just as competitive as Seattle with a significant part of that due to opportunists and investors, and some of these quickie-doo remodels make me wonder if the houses will pass any kind of legit inspection, or if anything was done to code or with permits. Every 30-something with dad's wallet and some spare time is in on it now.

stickguy said:

She’s too busy with work to flip houses, and knows nothing about tools. Though I did teach her how to change outlets! I’m skinny enough already.

explorerx4

So there's a double meaning to 'stickguy'.