Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

stickguy said:

I liked my Gremlin. I forget the specific year, but it had the same bumpers as that blue one. Though I think it had the stripes that angled up the C pillar instead. Mine was yellow with black stripes.

I liked those Gremlins too.....it appeals to minimalists. I went to my AMC dealer to look at one in 1973, the salesmen were n't available, they were having a sales meeting, so I went over to the Ford dealer and made a great deal on a 1973 Maverick with a V8 engine.
I never saw a Gremlin painted like this but I like this one;

I wonder if they would sell today, they look a lot better than most of the small low priced cars on the market.

oldfarmer50

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

The Clubman just had the coolant and brake fluid changed and no sooner than it was ready for pickup the 2er threw a CEL: code P0456, "evaporative emission system leak detected(very small leak)." I did a bit of digging and found that the usual culprit- the leak detection module(NVLD) is covered by a 10 year/120,000 mile warranty extension. I figured that since it was a free repair I'd go ahead and get the oil, coolant and brake fluid changed a couple of months early. With jury trials firing up again in may I thought I'd get that maintenance over with. That only leaves the Club Sport and Wrangler- which I'll probably just service in my own garage.

As an aside, my BMW dealer's gain was my loss; they are moving as much new metal over the curb as they can get- and it has depleted the loaner fleet and I ended up with a Nissan Versa from Enterprise. After one day I had more than enough of the CVT and a touchscreen that locks out most every function while the car is moving and I returned it a day early.

Even Enterprise can’t make up for it being a Nissan Versa

Speaking of Enterprise do you think their CEO has a car with the license plate NCC 1701?

I don’t know but both the starship Enterprise and Enterprise car rental were named after the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise on which founder Jack Taylor served.

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

In all the hub bub over Carmax and Edmunds today, we almost overlooked that today is the "G-Day" in history.

The Gremlin was introduced today, 50 years ago.






https://automotivehistory.org/this-day-in-automotive-history/april-1-1970-amc-introduces-the-gremlin-2/

My brother had one of those but he ruined it by not changing the oil. He then got a Javelin with a 3 speed IIRC. That one was fun to drive.

The Javelin got stolen and dumped in the river.

stickguy

I really lived on the edge. I not only had the Gremlin (6 cyl, 3 speed on the floor), I followed it up with a Hornet 2 door hatch (so, 3 door?). Also 6 cyl, 3 speed on the floor. But I think that one started as a column shift, and some prior owner converted it.

jipster

My 1978 AMC Concord was similar to this one. Funky brown hub caps. 6 cyl automatic. Bought around 1983 with 70kish miles. Nice car for about 5 years, then literally started to fall apart. I called her "Sweet Brown Sugar"...until things started to turn sour.

ab348

Interesting to learn that Honda has sold their U.K. assembly plant in Swindon, where the Civic hatch and Type R are made, and will be decommissioning it next year. It is apparently going to be turned into an Amazon logistics center for the U.K. They have been producing about 150,000 vehicles a year there but they have struggled in the European market. Seems odd considering how well they do here.

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-japanesecars/honda-sells-swindon-plant-to-panattoni/43946

explorerx4

Honda discontinued selling the Civic in Japan.
https://www.drivespark.com/four-wheelers/2020/honda-civic-discontinued-in-the-japanese-market-031580.html

kyfdx

ab348 said:

Interesting to learn that Honda has sold their U.K. assembly plant in Swindon, where the Civic hatch and Type R are made, and will be decommissioning it next year. It is apparently going to be turned into an Amazon logistics center for the U.K. They have been producing about 150,000 vehicles a year there but they have struggled in the European market. Seems odd considering how well they do here.

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-japanesecars/honda-sells-swindon-plant-to-panattoni/43946

Didn't that start out as a CR-V assembly location?

bwia

Never thought about it much until this morning. And that is, the aggravating destination fee tucked at the bottom of the Mulroney sticker. Would you believe that in the last decade that fee has gone up 40% and there's nothing one can do about it? I'm sure most of that charge goes straight to the dealer's bottom line. According to CNet the best way to get rid of this fee is to buy a slightly used or previously loved car. That way, the previous owner eats that fee and some depreciation too.

jmonroe1

Hey, I know I’m late with this but happy Pesach to our kosher poster buddies who observe Passover.

jmonroe

stickguy

bwia said:

Never thought about it much until this morning. And that is, the aggravating destination fee tucked at the bottom of the Mulroney sticker. Would you believe that in the last decade that fee has gone up 40% and there's nothing one can do about it? I'm sure most of that charge goes straight to the dealer's bottom line. According to CNet the best way to get rid of this fee is to buy a slightly used or previously loved car. That way, the previous owner eats that fee and some depreciation too.

Top line or bottom line, MSRP is going to be the same. It is odd to break that out. Plus, you dont pay sticker anyway most of the time, so what foes it matter? New or used, you pay what the car is worth at that point in time to the market (you and the seller).

I assume they just started that practice to be able to advertise a lower price (with an *).

roadburner

stickguy said:

bwia said:

Never thought about it much until this morning. And that is, the aggravating destination fee tucked at the bottom of the Mulroney sticker. Would you believe that in the last decade that fee has gone up 40% and there's nothing one can do about it? I'm sure most of that charge goes straight to the dealer's bottom line. According to CNet the best way to get rid of this fee is to buy a slightly used or previously loved car. That way, the previous owner eats that fee and some depreciation too.

Top line or bottom line, MSRP is going to be the same. It is odd to break that out. Plus, you dont pay sticker anyway most of the time, so what foes it matter? New or used, you pay what the car is worth at that point in time to the market (you and the seller).

I assume they just started that practice to be able to advertise a lower price (with an *).

Agreed.

jmonroe1

bwia said:

Never thought about it much until this morning. And that is, the aggravating destination fee tucked at the bottom of the Mulroney sticker. Would you believe that in the last decade that fee has gone up 40% and there's nothing one can do about it? I'm sure most of that charge goes straight to the dealer's bottom line. According to CNet the best way to get rid of this fee is to buy a slightly used or previously loved car. That way, the previous owner eats that fee and some depreciation too.

The way I understand it is, the destination charge is not a profit center for the dealer. It’s a fee charged by the manufacturer. So if anyone is making a buck on this it is the manufacturer not the dealer. That being said, negotiate the price you want to pay for all in costs. Even mop and glow stuff.

The bottom line should be your bottom line.

jmonroe

explorerx4

If anything, the transportation fee would go to the manufacturer, not the dealer,.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

Honda discontinued selling the Civic in Japan.
https://www.drivespark.com/four-wheelers/2020/honda-civic-discontinued-in-the-japanese-market-031580.html

That’s ironic.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

If anything, the transportation fee would go to the manufacturer, not the dealer,.

Thinking about it, why is the destination fee the same no matter how far the car is delivered? If you buy a used car from Carvana or Enterprise it costs more to have it sent across the country vs across the state. Shouldn’t it cost less to ship a car down the street in Detroit than to California?

Do the just average the cost of all shipping?

kyfdx

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

If anything, the transportation fee would go to the manufacturer, not the dealer,.

Thinking about it, why is the destination fee the same no matter how far the car is delivered? If you buy a used car from Carvana or Enterprise it costs more to have it sent across the country vs across the state. Shouldn’t it cost less to ship a car down the street in Detroit than to California?

Do the just average the cost of all shipping?

Because it isn't really a fee.. As noted, it's just a way to advertise a lower price on the vehicle.

driver100

jmonroe1 said:

Hey, I know I’m late with this but happy Pesach to our kosher poster buddies who observe Passover.

jmonroe

....and Happy Easter to those who celebrate that occasion too!

driver100

From Truecar:
While destination fees are hardly the most exciting part of buying a new car, you should know that they aren’t a money-making line item. This fee is the full amount the dealership pays the manufacturer for each car delivered to their lot. To keep things fair, costs are averaged out so that dealers pay the same amount whether they’re five miles or five thousand miles away from the factory.
https://www.truecar.com/blog/destination-fees-on-new-cars-what-you-should-expect-to-pay/#:~:text=A destination fee is the,car onto the dealership lot.&text=This fee is the full,car delivered to their lot.

I have never questioned paying the destination fee.....it isn't really negotiable since the dealer has to pay to get the car to your location. And, yes, if you buy a domo or CPO car you can avoid paying that fee.

kyfdx

driver100 said:

From Truecar:
While destination fees are hardly the most exciting part of buying a new car, you should know that they aren’t a money-making line item. This fee is the full amount the dealership pays the manufacturer for each car delivered to their lot. To keep things fair, costs are averaged out so that dealers pay the same amount whether they’re five miles or five thousand miles away from the factory.
https://www.truecar.com/blog/destination-fees-on-new-cars-what-you-should-expect-to-pay/#:~:text=A destination fee is the,car onto the dealership lot.&text=This fee is the full,car delivered to their lot.

I have never questioned paying the destination fee.....it isn't really negotiable since the dealer has to pay to get the car to your location. And, yes, if you buy a domo or CPO car you can avoid paying that fee.

Actually, you don't pay the destination fee. You only pay the price you negotiate for the vehicle. Focusing on that fee being any different than any other part of the vehicle just takes your eye off the prize.

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

If anything, the transportation fee would go to the manufacturer, not the dealer,.

Thinking about it, why is the destination fee the same no matter how far the car is delivered? If you buy a used car from Carvana or Enterprise it costs more to have it sent across the country vs across the state. Shouldn’t it cost less to ship a car down the street in Detroit than to California?

Do the just average the cost of all shipping?

We called that "postage stamp" shipping cost when I was in the liquor business. Obviously it cost us a lot less to supply a pallet of vodka to our big box store down the street from our main distribution center than it did to deliver a custom mixed case to our tiny store in the boondocks 300 miles away, but we didn't take that into account in our specific pricing. All locations charged the same. Made it easier to maintain a useful website, promotional material, etc. Total outbound freight was an overhead item that wasn't included in the product pricing model, while inbound freight cost from the product origin location did enter into pricing.

dino001

What's even more annoying to me are these "starting at" ads from manufacturers that list MSRP without destination, like there is an option to not to pay that somehow. It should fall under deceptive ad laws, but because final price is set by a dealer anyway, I guess it gives the a free pass to simply lie. Or perhaps there are some "diplomat" or other special programs that drop that from the price, which allows them to claim these ads are "true". The list of cheaters is quite surprising - I've seen all German premium brands using MSRP ex. destination as "starting price" in their marketing materials at some point (Audi is most consistent, does it everywhere, including the website, BMW and Benz have done it on occasion in the past). I think I've seen some other brands doing it it, too.

driver100

Are these pages looking more faded or is my Pfizer kicking in?

driver100

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

From Truecar:
While destination fees are hardly the most exciting part of buying a new car, you should know that they aren’t a money-making line item. This fee is the full amount the dealership pays the manufacturer for each car delivered to their lot. To keep things fair, costs are averaged out so that dealers pay the same amount whether they’re five miles or five thousand miles away from the factory.
https://www.truecar.com/blog/destination-fees-on-new-cars-what-you-should-expect-to-pay/#:~:text=A destination fee is the,car onto the dealership lot.&text=This fee is the full,car delivered to their lot.

I have never questioned paying the destination fee.....it isn't really negotiable since the dealer has to pay to get the car to your location. And, yes, if you buy a domo or CPO car you can avoid paying that fee.

Actually, you don't pay the destination fee. You only pay the price you negotiate for the vehicle. Focusing on that fee being any different than any other part of the vehicle just takes your eye off the prize.

I understand what you are saying....but, one way or the other you will pay that amount for destination....since that money goes to the manufacturer. The dealer isn't going to discount that amount unless he is OK with taking a loss. He can rob it from another department, but it will be collected and paid to the manufacturer, one way or the other.

stickguy

driver100 said:

Are these pages looking more faded or is my Pfizer kicking in?

Just you getting old(er).

Actually must be the new format they promised us.

Kirstie_H

driver100 said:

Are these pages looking more faded or is my Pfizer kicking in?

Why not both? Format changes did, indeed, just go live. We've asked for some fixes to the profile pages, so if you were just about to make changes to yours, please hold off.

stickguy

It would be really nice to have some contrast between posts.

driver100

Kirstie_H said:

driver100 said:

Are these pages looking more faded or is my Pfizer kicking in?

Why not both? Format changes did, indeed, just go live. We've asked for some fixes to the profile pages, so if you were just about to make changes to yours, please hold off.

Blinker Fluid....where can you get that....I like to keep some on hand in case I run low?

Kirstie_H

stickguy said:

It would be really nice to have some contrast between posts.

I can't promise anything, but I can certainly ask.

abacomike

This new format sure lacks contrast. It’s also quirky. But I am sure, with some patience on our part, this, too, shall pass!

tjc78

I saw this new format for a few post the other night and then it disappeared. Seems fine on my IPad.

imidazol97

For a minute or two I thought I had a Gremlin in my laptop's operating system.

imidazol97

The text shows up as a medium gray print. Hard to read.

The titles or headers need to be slightly larger and in darker print.

oldfarmer50

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

If anything, the transportation fee would go to the manufacturer, not the dealer,.

Thinking about it, why is the destination fee the same no matter how far the car is delivered? If you buy a used car from Carvana or Enterprise it costs more to have it sent across the country vs across the state. Shouldn’t it cost less to ship a car down the street in Detroit than to California?

Do the just average the cost of all shipping?

Because it isn't really a fee.. As noted, it's just a way to advertise a lower price on the vehicle.

Wow, my understanding of how the world works just crumbled.

Kirstie_H

imidazol97 said:

The text shows up as a medium gray print. Hard to read.

The titles or headers need to be slightly larger and in darker print.

We're relaying feedback about the contrast to the product team.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

From Truecar:
While destination fees are hardly the most exciting part of buying a new car, you should know that they aren’t a money-making line item. This fee is the full amount the dealership pays the manufacturer for each car delivered to their lot. To keep things fair, costs are averaged out so that dealers pay the same amount whether they’re five miles or five thousand miles away from the factory.
https://www.truecar.com/blog/destination-fees-on-new-cars-what-you-should-expect-to-pay/#:~:text=A destination fee is the,car onto the dealership lot.&text=This fee is the full,car delivered to their lot.

I have never questioned paying the destination fee.....it isn't really negotiable since the dealer has to pay to get the car to your location. And, yes, if you buy a domo or CPO car you can avoid paying that fee.

That’s what I suspected. Whew! My world just uncrumbled.

Now if I can only get used to the changes on this page.

oldfarmer50

bwia said:

Sticker Shock: The Truth About Destination Fees. This article appeared in Consumer Reports and Yahoo! news. It mentions that the Stellantis Group is especially egregious in raising their destination fees in recent years.

For example, "Stellantis, the company formerly known as Fiat Chrysler that’s behind the Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Jeep, and Ram brands, among others, is a notable example. Destination fees rose an average of 90 percent on Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep vehicles; 74 percent on Ram trucks since 2011; and 114 percent on Fiats since 2012. The charges on one model, the Jeep Cherokee, rose to $1,495 in 2019 from $995 in 2016, a 50 percent increase in just three years." https://www3.citizensbankonline.com/efs/servlet/efs/default.jsp

Well, all the parts have to be shipped from Italy.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

If anything, the transportation fee would go to the manufacturer, not the dealer,.

Thinking about it, why is the destination fee the same no matter how far the car is delivered? If you buy a used car from Carvana or Enterprise it costs more to have it sent across the country vs across the state. Shouldn’t it cost less to ship a car down the street in Detroit than to California?

Do the just average the cost of all shipping?

We called that "postage stamp" shipping cost when I was in the liquor business. Obviously it cost us a lot less to supply a pallet of vodka to our big box store down the street from our main distribution center than it did to deliver a custom mixed case to our tiny store in the boondocks 300 miles away, but we didn't take that into account in our specific pricing. All locations charged the same. Made it easier to maintain a useful website, promotional material, etc. Total outbound freight was an overhead item that wasn't included in the product pricing model, while inbound freight cost from the product origin location did enter into pricing.

When I ordered materials for the farm, suppliers had a “zone” shipping fee which charged more for longer distance.

snakeweasel

bwia said:

Never thought about it much until this morning. And that is, the aggravating destination fee tucked at the bottom of the Mulroney sticker. Would you believe that in the last decade that fee has gone up 40% and there's nothing one can do about it? I'm sure most of that charge goes straight to the dealer's bottom line. According to CNet the best way to get rid of this fee is to buy a slightly used or previously loved car. That way, the previous owner eats that fee and some depreciation too.

I wouldn't worry about it, I would look at the bottom line. At the end of the day all that really matters is what you paid out the door. They could give me the car for free and tack on a $25K destination charge or charge me $25K and no destination fee, it's pretty much half of one 6 dozen of the other.

snakeweasel

bwia said:

Sticker Shock: The Truth About Destination Fees. This article appeared in Consumer Reports and Yahoo! news. It mentions that the Stellantis Group is especially egregious in raising their destination fees in recent years.

For example, "Stellantis, the company formerly known as Fiat Chrysler that’s behind the Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Jeep, and Ram brands, among others, is a notable example. Destination fees rose an average of 90 percent on Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep vehicles; 74 percent on Ram trucks since 2011; and 114 percent on Fiats since 2012. The charges on one model, the Jeep Cherokee, rose to $1,495 in 2019 from $995 in 2016, a 50 percent increase in just three years." https://www3.citizensbankonline.com/efs/servlet/efs/default.jsp

Look at it this way, if you go to the local Piggly Wiggly and buy a can of corn it costs someone some good old Yankee Green Backs to get it there and that cost is buried in the price of the can of corn. All car manufacturers are doing is breaking it down by line item.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

Kirstie_H said:

driver100 said:

Are these pages looking more faded or is my Pfizer kicking in?

Why not both? Format changes did, indeed, just go live. We've asked for some fixes to the profile pages, so if you were just about to make changes to yours, please hold off.

Blinker Fluid....where can you get that....I like to keep some on hand in case I run low?

Any auto parts store sells it, you can find it right next to the relative bearing grease.

Kirstie_H

snakeweasel said:

Any auto parts store sells it, you can find it right next to the relative bearing grease.

It's usually right underneath the headlight lubrication spray. DO NOT get suckered into buying the high-altitude battery, though. That's just a waste of money.

driver100

Kirstie_H said:

snakeweasel said:

Any auto parts store sells it, you can find it right next to the relative bearing grease.

It's usually right underneath the headlight lubrication spray. DO NOT get suckered into buying the high-altitude battery, though. That's just a waste of money.

I think my blinkers have been going slower and don't make as much sound lately, is OK one of the better makers of blinker fluid?
I think we need some fluid to make the print darker and make the headers more bold around here.

kyfdx

explorerx4 said:

If anything, the transportation fee would go to the manufacturer, not the dealer,.

Except the buyer doesn't pay the manufacturer for anything. He pays the dealer the negotiated price. What the dealer does with the money is not my concern.

Michaell

Kirstie_H said:

DO NOT get suckered into buying the high-altitude battery, though. That's just a waste of money.

Wait, WHAT?

I spent extra for new batteries for both the MINI and the Subaru, only now to find out I didn't need to?

I'm outraged.

driver100

Michaell said:

Kirstie_H said:

DO NOT get suckered into buying the high-altitude battery, though. That's just a waste of money.

Wait, WHAT?

I spent extra for new batteries for both the MINI and the Subaru, only now to find out I didn't need to?

I'm outraged.

You can get most of that money back when you trade the car in...they should give you an allowance for that.

imidazol97

Is everybody seeing grey letters instead of black? Or is it just me and my laptopS, both of them?
HP Pavilion G7 and HP ENVY dv6. both Win 10 fully up-to-date.
I noticed that when editing, the lines of text are double vertical spacing apart.
The blue shading on the number box telling which page of that topic you're
on is too light to show up on my machines.

Kirstie_H

imidazol97 said:

Is everybody seeing grey letters instead of black? Or is it just me and my laptopS, both of them?
HP Pavilion G7 and HP ENVY dv6. both Win 10 fully up-to-date.
I noticed that when editing, the lines of text are double vertical spacing apart.
The blue shading on the number box telling which page of that topic you're
on is too light to show up on my machines.

The double-spacing is weird, but I can get used to that. Your feedback on the contrast is noted - we have that down to discuss with our product team. It bothers us too.

explorerx4

Aftermarket already coming out with upgrades for the Mach E.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gECeqdVJ5Gw&t=34s

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

Aftermarket already coming out with upgrades for the Mach E.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gECeqdVJ5Gw&t=34s

That’s funny. I was watching Doug Demoro’s review and he mentioned that the Mach-e actually does pump some phony sound into the cabin.