Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

explorerx4 said:

Sent the listing for this house to my wife. She's in Wisco visiting one of the kids.
Wonder what she'll say? I'm ready to move.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/6708-Spring-Glen-Dr_Valley-City_OH_44280_M42975-71386

6 car garage! You may have to buy some more cars to fill it up!

jmonroe1

@tjc78 said:

@explorerx4 said:
@stickguy,
Taxes shocked me too, in a good way.
BTW, I think we would be the grandparents.

LMAO $4800. That is less than I pay for my condo down the shore!

Do you want to laugh some more?

My taxes are just a tick over 3 grand for a 4 BR, 2/12 bath, 2 car garage house with around 2300 square feet.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

Original sticker was about $22,500. Insanity.

https://worcester.craigslist.org/ctd/d/worcester-2010-ford-ranger-super-cab/7369378431.html

jmonroe1

@imidazol97 said:
I frequent car shows and cruise-ins as a spectator, which many of you here know already. I saw a listed just now for a car show inside a correctional facility run by the State. This is inside the facility and the "guests" of the facility will be the ones judging the entries.

What could go wrong? Should I go? it's a fur piece away but I sometimes travel to promising shows because I've seen so many vehicles within the 30 mile radius already.

https://www.facebook.com/ohiodrc/posts/4468956363162515?cft[0]=AZXghEgRsdA_0qQQ2vQ8FNIlWKn5w73wXKlKy7cFOJ1_sEentO3sLJM2yn9OLbPpD8xRIoEWS4JqRO_GZW-3zTXa5QwiSLYy2DgOtij827R3hF7w5MffdsH_0IW7j2CPZwDQvKEbSTEZU6pNA9pXQ50HqI-wlM2meu4hKdpJBEGVH9N_uaXgnhli4y-oEghF1XP3ecTLUHPBrsd9u3J9KgVL&tn=-UC%2CP-R

Well, when one of the cars goes missing they won’t have to go looking very far.

jmonroe

imidazol97

jmonroe1 said:

Well, when one of the cars goes missing they won’t have to go looking very far.

jmonroe

I wonder if the car owners will leave the keys in the ignition as they often do at car shows I've attended. I can just see one of the State's guests using a car as battering ram through the gates to the outside world.

tjc78

@jmonroe1 said:

@tjc78 said:

@explorerx4 said:
@stickguy,
Taxes shocked me too, in a good way.
BTW, I think we would be the grandparents.

LMAO $4800. That is less than I pay for my condo down the shore!

Do you want to laugh some more?

My taxes are just a tick over 3 grand for a 4 BR, 2/12 bath, 2 car garage house with around 2300 square feet.

jmonroe

I’m not laughing … I’m crying!

Only a true masochist would own two homes in Jersey! 😜🤪

roadburner

@jmonroe1 said:

@tjc78 said:

@explorerx4 said:
@stickguy,
Taxes shocked me too, in a good way.
BTW, I think we would be the grandparents.

LMAO $4800. That is less than I pay for my condo down the shore!

Do you want to laugh some more?

My taxes are just a tick over 3 grand for a 4 BR, 2/12 bath, 2 car garage house with around 2300 square feet.

jmonroe

My real estate taxes were $3884 for my house and the farm.

stickguy

@oldfarmer50 said:
Original sticker was about $22,500. Insanity.

https://worcester.craigslist.org/ctd/d/worcester-2010-ford-ranger-super-cab/7369378431.html

I was expecting $10k maybe. That is nuts. Also why I gave up shopping used. That one is clean, but not even AWD.

Can order a new Maverick XL for barely more than that.

benjaminh

Yeah, use stickguy's dealer in Philly who apparently is still taking Maverick orders for 4% under invoice, and a Maverick XL with the optional 2.0T ecoboost engine could potentially be yours in a few months for about $21k + TTL.

kyfdx

tjc78 said:

If my primary residence taxes were to double I’m putting the for sale sign right up. I’m not paying nearly 34K in a taxes a year.

No, your taxes wouldn't double. But, if you'd lived there 20 years, with years of under-assessments, and the next guy buys your house for 3-4 times what you paid for it, the taxes on that house might double.

But, you've only owned it a year or two, right? Doesn't apply to you.

mjfloyd1

Came home from Friday night lights and the garage door shut really loudly. Left side spring is now in two pieces. I’d forgotten how hard it is to lift a garage door with a broken spring.

kyfdx

mjfloyd1 said:

Came home from Friday night lights and the garage door shut really loudly. Left side spring is now in two pieces. I’d forgotten how hard it is to lift a garage door with a broken spring.

Almost impossible.

28firefighter

@mjfloyd1 said:
Came home from Friday night lights and the garage door shut really loudly. Left side spring is now in two pieces. I’d forgotten how hard it is to lift a garage door with a broken spring.

You had it covered, right Mooscles?

mjfloyd1

I gave up and took another car!

fintail

My mom lives in a small coastal town, recently bought an early 1900s bungalow in a normal neighborhood, property taxes are something like $1600, before the senior discount. Here for my pending house, taxes on a typical 50s planbook build in a decent neighborhood are ~$2300 (prior elderly owners were paying like $500). WA has some high taxes, especially sales and gas that can be regressive, but no real income tax, and lowish property tax rates (which still result in high bills in expensive areas, as is much of metro Seattle) help make this state attractive to many.

tjc78 said:

If my primary residence taxes were to double I’m putting the for sale sign right up. I’m not paying nearly 34K in a taxes a year.

roadburner

kyfdx said:

mjfloyd1 said:

Came home from Friday night lights and the garage door shut really loudly. Left side spring is now in two pieces. I’d forgotten how hard it is to lift a garage door with a broken spring.

Almost impossible.

Mike Miller the BMW CCA Roundel tech editor slipped raising his garage door manually and the door came down on his head. He suffered a closed-head injury and is just getting back on his feet.

mjfloyd1

@roadburner said:
Mike Miller the BMW CCA Roundel tech editor slipped raising his garage door manually and the door came down on his head. He suffered a closed-head injury and is just getting back on his feet.

Good thing I could only raise it chest high before it came back down. It came right back down pretty quickly when I stopped trying to raise it up. I’ve already had one hernia repaired and it didn’t seem worth another with two available cars.

sb55

The talk of low real estate taxes is making me sad because Vermont has a very weird way of figuring the school portion of RE taxes. My tiny town of 1600 is considered a "sending town" and it collects about $7 million just in school taxes. It all gets sent to the state. The state ed dept. then "equalizes" the expenses for the whole state and sends about 1/2 back to this town for the school. So, in effect, we pay about double what it costs to educate a kid. Because I live on Lake Champlain my property is pretty valuable compared to what we paid 22 years ago. But, in 22 years my taxes have quadrupled.

abacomike

@benjaminh said:
Yeah, use stickguy's dealer in Philly who apparently is still taking Maverick orders for 4% under invoice, and a Maverick XL with the optional 2.0T ecoboost engine could potentially be yours in a few months for about $21k + TTL.

$1495 for destination charges? My G90 was $1200 6 months ago. Talk about inflation!!! My 2020 E 450 had destination charges of $1095. Those charges are horrendous! Before you know it, we’ll be paying $2000 for destination charges on new cars. 😩😩😩😤

dino001

2055 pricing sheet:

$55,000 vehicle price
$155,000 destination
$1,555,000 dealer fee (in Florida).

stickguy

just a different way of raising the price without it being as obvious. All that matters in the end, is the bottom line.

ab348

Destination charges here in Canada are commonly $2K or more in worthless Canadian dollars.

dino001

ab348 said:

Destination charges here in Canada are commonly $2K or more in worthless Canadian dollars.

Eh, keep proportion, mister. Canadian dollars may be worth less, but they're not worthless. You guys still have a way to go to achieve value of peso, real, or God save, bolivar.

abacomike

@stickguy said:
just a different way of raising the price without it being as obvious. All that matters in the end, is the bottom line.

Destination charges on the new car sticker are added on by the manufacturer after all options and base price amounts. These charges are not discountable as the dealer pays that amount after the invoice price is listed.

An example would be:

Base price………………….$32,540
Options Total…………….$. 5,625
Destination Charge…….$ 1495

Total Price…………………..$39,660

The dealer would pay $39,660 less $1496 = $38,165 X .88 = $33,585.20 + $1495 = $35,080.20.

So from the above example, the destination charges are first subtracted from list price before the 12% discount is applied to arrive at dealer invoice and then the destination charges are added back into the price the dealer actually paid for the car.

These are aspects of dealer invoice not usually known to most people.

explorerx4

@coldinoohio,
I think we've been to that National Park before. It has a nice walking/biking trail.
Train stops along part of it?

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

@stickguy said:

just a different way of raising the price without it being as obvious. All that matters in the end, is the bottom line.

Destination charges on the new car sticker are added on by the manufacturer after all options and base price amounts. These charges are not discountable as the dealer pays that amount after the invoice price is listed.

An example would be:

Base price………………….$32,540

Options Total…………….$. 5,625

Destination Charge…….$ 1495

Total Price…………………..$39,660

The dealer would pay $39,660 less $1496 = $38,165 X .88 = $33,585.20 + $1495 = $35,080.20.

So from the above example, the destination charges are first subtracted from list price before the 12% discount is applied to arrive at dealer invoice and then the destination charges are added back into the price the dealer actually paid for the car.

These are aspects of dealer invoice not usually known to most people.

So before we start grinding away we should back out the destination charge? I asssume the 12% you quote is model specific. Which of your cars had a 12% mark up?

mjfloyd1

Correct, the dealer does not get a discount on the shipping/ destination charge.

driver100

benjaminh said:

Yeah, use stickguy's dealer in Philly who apparently is still taking Maverick orders for 4% under invoice, and a Maverick XL with the optional 2.0T ecoboost engine could potentially be yours in a few months for about $21k + TTL.

But in the review I read no one is going to buy that base model

benjaminh said:

Yeah, use stickguy's dealer in Philly who apparently is still taking Maverick orders for 4% under invoice, and a Maverick XL with the optional 2.0T ecoboost engine could potentially be yours in a few months for about $21k + TTL.

Remember....steel wheels, CVT, FWD, 191 hp....bare bones interior.
An excellent price for a new vehicle, but a little bit spartan for most people.

qbrozen

@tjc78 said:

@explorerx4 said:
@stickguy,
Taxes shocked me too, in a good way.
BTW, I think we would be the grandparents.

LMAO $4800. That is less than I pay for my condo down the shore!

We’re told $900/yr for our myrtle beach choice.

roadburner

@qbrozen said:

@kyfdx said:
I really like that house. Not sure I want to mow 1.5 acres. Also, it's really out in the boonies. But, I guess that's where you go, to get that much land. It's about the same age as our house, which we built in 1998.

1.5? Hahaha. Child’s play!

;b

I mow a bit over 2 acres and I’ve managed to get the total mowing time to under 75 minutes- 90% of the time is spent on a ZTR.

imidazol97

On the subject of lawn mowers, I'm considering replacing my push Toro with a self-propelled.

Is front wheel drive or rear wheel drive better on a lawn mower? (That makes it sound automobile related!)

I use my neighbor's Lawn Boy which seems to have rear drive with the fronts somehow being turned as well, but the rear wheels are the power drivers. Son and DIL have my Toro while their EGO EV mower is being replaced at 1 year!!! Drive power failed. And electronics then totallly failed 4 weeks ago. So much for EV models.

kyfdx

imidazol97 said:

On the subject of lawn mowers, I'm considering replacing my push Toro with a self-propelled.

Is front wheel drive or rear wheel drive better on a lawn mower? (That makes it sound automobile related!)

I use my neighbor's Lawn Boy which seems to have rear drive with the fronts somehow being turned as well, but the rear wheels are the power drivers. Son and DIL have my Toro while their EGO EV mower is being replaced at 1 year!!! Drive power failed. And electronics then totallly failed 4 weeks ago. So much for EV models.

RWD is the best. I've had two Hondas in the last 30 years. Had a FWD Toro before that.

My son bought an EGO this year for his very small yard. Also, had to have some major items replaced on it.

tjc78

@kyfdx said:
No, your taxes wouldn't double. But, if you'd lived there 20 years, with years of under-assessments, and the next guy buys your house for 3-4 times what you paid for it, the taxes on that house might double.

But, you've only owned it a year or two, right? Doesn't apply to you.

Gotcha, It’s different here. Jersey doesn’t re-asses when you buy. They do that all at once depending on the town every X years.

tjc78

@qbrozen said:

@tjc78 said:

@explorerx4 said:
@stickguy,
Taxes shocked me too, in a good way.
BTW, I think we would be the grandparents.

LMAO $4800. That is less than I pay for my condo down the shore!

We’re told $900/yr for our myrtle beach choice.

Not bad at all.

abacomike

@oldfarmer50 said:
So before we start grinding away we should back out the destination charge? I asssume the 12% you quote is model specific. Which of your cars had a 12% mark up?

Mercedes was usually around 12%. Lowest mark-up was on the Genesis G90 at 10%. Average dealer cost is 11% below sticker after subtracting the destination charges and then adding them back in after the 11% is subtracted from prices.

But remember, there are factory and/or manufacturer incentives that are in addition to the dealer invoice thus reducing invoice by incentives.

jmonroe1

@roadburner said:

@qbrozen said:

@kyfdx said:
I really like that house. Not sure I want to mow 1.5 acres. Also, it's really out in the boonies. But, I guess that's where you go, to get that much land. It's about the same age as our house, which we built in 1998.

1.5? Hahaha. Child’s play!

;b

I mow a bit over 2 acres and I’ve managed to get the total mowing time to under 75 minutes- 90% of the time is spent on a ZTR.

That sounds like you can do a little over a 4 minute mile. At that pace, grass cutting can be a great way to stay in shape. When I was at my fighting weight I could have done that too.

jmonroe

dino001

oldfarmer50 said:

So before we start grinding away we should back out the destination charge? I asssume the 12% you quote is model specific. Which of your cars had a 12% mark up?

Not exactly. Destination is basically a pass-through part of the price, i.e. it does not carry any dealership markup. You can't really grind away destination, as it's not something that dealer can simply waive. It's the opposite, you can't reduce destination's impact on your final price as it is not marked up by the store, just as I said passed through to you by the dealer. Dealer cost (nominal of course, before any rebates, volume incentives, holdbacks, etc.) in this case is 0.88*(Retail price minus destination) PLUS destination.

I think 10+ percent nominal retail markups are rare today, but still more common in luxury brands, like BMW, MB, or Lexus. The dealers' compensation schemes were restructured some years ago to go "underground" with real profits and costs due to increased transparency of the invoicing. It's mostly in pre and post-sale manufacturer assistance, like volume-based incentives, bonuses, franchise support (investment assistance etc.) and also more inventive F&I activity, including junk fees/equipment/financial products. No dealer could realistically support their business if the nominal retail markup on new cars were their actual sales margins, even if we all bought at MSRP. It's not uncommon in other retailers to have backdoor manufacturer support on sales, either. The goal is to make the customer believe they got a deal of a lifetime (we're losing money), pay minimal compensation to the employees (you didn't meet your markup quota, Steve Richards or Andy Elliott will teach you how to improve it) and still somehow stay in business for decades.

carnaught

On another subject, our transition to the dominance and replacement to all electric cars. The future new Cadillacs will be all electric and other brands hope to, or will follow this trend. I think we all realize their advantages as far as maintenance and performance and less greenhouse gas emissions vs. the shortage of charging units and the environmental consequences of utilizing the non renewable energy sources to power our electrical grid and the eventual disposal of worn out batteries. So, my thoughts revolve around a logistical factor. We know that single home owners can set up charging units in their garages and utilize more public sites for charging when away from homes. But, since a large portion of our population rent apartments or reside in condos and that many of these buildings have charging units. If virtually everyone had electric vehicles in these buildings, they would need close to to a 1:1 ratio of cars to chargers in these buildings. In facilities that are where lower middle class people reside I cannot see this being viable or practical. Some of these situations would generate both conflicts and violence just to get one’s car charged. In a nutshell I cannot see us becoming “fully electric” for a very long time, if ever due to these logistics alone.

driver100

kyfdx said:

imidazol97 said:

On the subject of lawn mowers, I'm considering replacing my push Toro with a self-propelled.

Is front wheel drive or rear wheel drive better on a lawn mower? (That makes it sound automobile related!)

I use my neighbor's Lawn Boy which seems to have rear drive with the fronts somehow being turned as well, but the rear wheels are the power drivers. Son and DIL have my Toro while their EGO EV mower is being replaced at 1 year!!! Drive power failed. And electronics then totallly failed 4 weeks ago. So much for EV models.

RWD is the best. I've had two Hondas in the last 30 years. Had a FWD Toro before that.

My son bought an EGO this year for his very small yard. Also, had to have some major items replaced on it.

How about AWD?

driver100

@carnaught I agree completely.
And, no one has come up with a way to dispose of old batteries, which are highly toxic, no one has figured out how we can generate enough power if everyone has an EV, and your point is well taken........what about older buildings that can't be easily converted, what about people who have to park on the street or away from their homes, what about people who have an inexpensive car now and can't afford an EV. What will we do with our gas burner trade-ins, who will buy them? Questions questions....and more questions. It can and should happen, but I don't know if it can be done the way they seem to think it can be done.

stickguy

All valid issues that would have to be resolved. And given the current government gridlock model, won’t be. So IMO it will be a class thing. Middle class and up (people with nice houses, and money for fancy cars) will go electric. Poor people, won’t.

To me, ST focus should be on commercial use. Anything that drives in a relatively small area and does a lot of local stop and go. Perfect case is USPS. mail trucks going electric is ideal. Not many miles per day, stop and go, low speeds. And they park the same place every night.

Delivery trucks should work too, as long as they don’t run 24/7 like cabs. Shuttle buses at an airport. Stuff like that.

What can work for anyone is a hybrid. Cut gas usage way down, and fewer recharge issues.

stickguy

There is also along ramp time. As driver noted, what about all the current gas cars? Is the government going to confiscate them and replace with a new EV? Not a chance. They will just have to linger on and slowly phase out.

sda

I am quite bummed but will be alright. Last Wednesday I slipped on a hill on the side of our house and broke my Tibia and Fibular on my right leg. I gave the neighborhood good gossip material as I was taken to the hospital in an ambulance. Great care by the care givers, doctors at the hospital. I have new found respect for all they do and their dedication. I have a plate and 8 screws to repair the injury. Came home Saturday afternoon. My wife has been incredible with her love and support. It is very humbling to need help with even the most basic functions and tasks. No driving for me for around 90 days. Having to go onto FMLA for the first time. Doing better by the day but I had to hang up my dancing shoes.

qbrozen

sda said:

I am quite bummed but will be alright. Last Wednesday I slipped on a hill on the side of our house and broke my Tibia and Fibular on my right leg. I gave the neighborhood good gossip material as I was taken to the hospital in an ambulance. Great care by the care givers, doctors at the hospital. I have new found respect for all they do and their dedication. I have a plate and 8 screws to repair the injury. Came home Saturday afternoon. My wife has been incredible with her love and support. It is very humbling to need help with even the most basic functions and tasks. No driving for me for around 90 days. Having to go onto FMLA for the first time. Doing better by the day but I had to hang up my dancing shoes.

OUCH. Sorry to hear it. Heal quick!

stickguy

That’s a rough one. Hope everything heals normally.

[Deleted User]

Yikes, no good for sure @sda, hoping for a quick recovery!

mjfloyd1

I hope you get back on your feet quickly @sda

tjc78

Oh man @sda that’s brutal. Hope it heals up quickly.

driver100

@sda
Really sorry to hear about that sda. It can happen so easily, a few seconds can alter your life.
The thought of things like that happening are one reason I was ready to give up manual transmissions anyway, and since MB wasn't offering them it made the decision even easier.

benjaminh

@sda
So sorry to hear that. All best wishes for your recovery.