Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

andres3

stickguy said:

The real swing point on the lease is incentives. If there are lease incentives that at least cover inception (lease specific) fees, then really just left with selling price to compare to a purchase.

Break it down to selling price (purchase vs cap cost + lease fees), and finance rate (APR vs. MF), and comparing apples to apples over the term of ownership.

Only wildcard is what it’s worth later (depreciation vs. residual). So leasing has to be better, since residual is fixed but depreciation is infinite to 100%!

Don't forget the "end the lease fees." Which could include disposition and mysterious charges for Key FOB's, but no one on this forum has an excuse for that to happen to them after my ordeal.

Sandman6472

Have heard about the extra fee's that come with a lease from others. Just have to do my homework once I decide on whether to finance or lease next time around. It'll be much easier once the chip situation comes to an end and prices go back to a more reasonable amount. No way will I pay an admin fee on any vehicle, especially not on something like a Toyota Corolla!!! Like many others I've talked to, just plan on waiting things out and if my current ride has an issue, I'll just fix it and move on. Time is something I have plenty of right now!
Did learn a lesson these last few years though. When going with certain vehicles, leasing is the best way due to their high percentage of issues down the road. In hindsight, we both should've leased our current fleet due to their reliability issues. I was warned by my mechanic at the time but didn't listen. Not doing that again!!

sda

My 89 Seville still had the 85 speedometer and it was digital. IIRC at 85+ it would display a blinking 85. I only did that once as 65-73 was a comfortable speed and it got 25+mpg at those speeds. I didn't need a speeding ticket.

andres3

I honestly am curious how they arrived at an 85 MPH speedometer mandate instead of 55 MPH. It's like they were condoning law breaking, but only up to 30 over!

roadburner

Sandman6472 said:

Just looked at a Hyundai Kona N-Line and loos to be interesting though a bit pricey. Does have the Harman Kardan audio system with the Infinity speakers and the sun/moon roof so right there, I'm interested. Found a gray over gray one at the dealer across the street and a white over black at the dealer in Miami where we got the kid's Accent last year though there's a $400 charge for the special white paint. But spending around $30K for a Hyundai that's probably $5K cheaper when things are in sync is a bit much. But, might go for a test drive just for kicks to see how well it drives. Does have the 1.6t engine which I also like and the size is very doable. And of course, love the Hyundai long warranty. Our 2020 Accent has been a flawless vehicle up till now and expect it to continue being flawless, just pray that no one else hits it!
We've had good luck with our Hyundai products, I blame the Tucson fiasco on me as it was a good vehicle, I just didn't like the size. And the Hyundai's/Kia's I drive at work all drive nicely. Just never thought about owning/leasing a Kona so really need to take it for an educational test drive to see if I can lve with one as my d d the next few years!

All show(slow) and no go.
Wait for the Kona N.

jmonroe1

driver100 said:

@explorerx4
Funny how they always seem to go off in the middle of the night.
Someone should invent one that only goes off during the day time.

You could wake up dead by then.

jmonroe

driver100

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

@explorerx4
Funny how they always seem to go off in the middle of the night.
Someone should invent one that only goes off during the day time.

You could wake up dead by then.

jmonroe

At least my sleep won't be interupted.

stickguy

Test drives are free. Go for it!

I can vouch that the 1.6t/DSG combo in a lite car is a great drivetrain. Fast, responsive, and can still get excellent mpg.

driver100

i am at MB waiting for car to be serviced, oil, fluids, new battery......old one is 8 years old, Takata airbags exchanged.
I saw a lady in the left lane on I 75, she was slow and cars were zig zapping around her,
Of course she came to her exit, 0ut on her brake lights, slowly moved over 3 lanes and then edged her way into the 4th exit lane.
An average day in Florida.

sda

driver100 said:

i am at MB waiting for car to be serviced, oil, fluids, new battery......old one is 8 years old, Takata airbags exchanged.
I saw a lady in the left lane on I 75, she was slow and cars were zig zapping around her,
Of course she came to her exit, 0ut on her brake lights, slowly moved over 3 lanes and then edged her way into the 4th exit lane.
An average day in Florida.

Welcome back!

imidazol97

My long saga of a paper income tax return to the feds reached a new level. A couple weeks back I got a letter. It was not about the repayment of the withdrawal accidentally issued by the company for one of my retirement funds. It was because I didn't check the box on line 7 that all the income shown on that line was from 1099div reports from mutal fund companies.

Wouldn't a properly set up computer system show the 1099div total and look for a Sched D for capital gains. If the total of 1099div's is the number on the line, voila, no schedule D needed.

So they wasted more time with letter out and a letter back. Still showing my return is in "processing."

They're as bad as the post office has been in past years. They're better now, but still subsidized by tax money.

andres3

I wonder what the mileage might be with the VW Taos with the AWD and 1.5T with 7-speed DSG. If you go with FWD you get penalized with a slushbox transmission so the fuel pros/cons probably offset and they are equal. Does the EPA agree?

imidazol97

It's about time we should be hearing from @abacomike as he recovers...

snakeweasel

@ronsteve said:
From 1978-1984 (give or take a year) it was a federal requirement that the speedo went to 85 mph and had 55 somehow highlighted. I think a big part of the reduction in deaths was fewer passenger miles traveled!

I sort of liked those 85 MPH speedometers. Both cars I have now have speedometers that go up to 160 MPH. So close to 50% of that speedometers is never going to have the needle over it. Seriously who can get a Sonata to 160?

A speedometer that goes up to a lower number ( say 120) tend to be easier to read simply because you're not cramming in more numbers into the same space.

snakeweasel

@driver100 said:
You have probably seen this commercial for the Mercedes AA Class Battery powered car, if not, here it is, well worth seeing;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k1tbf8muMc

Does this mean that the C Class Benz is powered by.....

snakeweasel

@andres3 said:
I wonder what the mileage might be with the VW Taos with the AWD and 1.5T with 7-speed DSG. If you go with FWD you get penalized with a slushbox transmission so the fuel pros/cons probably offset and they are equal. Does the EPA agree?

The EPA gives the FWD 8 speed auto 28/36 with a combined 31. It gives the AWD with the 7 speed 25/33 with a combined 28.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=2022&year2=2022&make=Volkswagen&baseModel=Taos&srchtyp=ymm&pageno=1&rowLimit=50

There is a much bigger mileage penalty with AWD than with the so called "slushbox".

sda

snakeweasel said:

@andres3 said:

I wonder what the mileage might be with the VW Taos with the AWD and 1.5T with 7-speed DSG. If you go with FWD you get penalized with a slushbox transmission so the fuel pros/cons probably offset and they are equal. Does the EPA agree?

The EPA gives the FWD 8 speed auto 28/36 with a combined 31. It gives the AWD with the 7 speed 25/33 with a combined 28.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=2022&year2=2022&make=Volkswagen&baseModel=Taos&srchtyp=ymm&pageno=1&rowLimit=50

There is a much bigger mileage penalty with AWD than with the so called "slushbox".

From what I've read the DSG in the AWD Taos is poorly calibrated and hesitates badly from a standing start and is clunky in low speed driving. The FWD with the conventional auto does much better in these conditions.

snakeweasel

@sda said:
From what I've read the DSG in the AWD Taos is poorly calibrated and hesitates badly from a standing start and is clunky in low speed driving. The FWD with the conventional auto does much better in these conditions.

Dual clutches tend not to be the best at very low speeds. Creeping forward in traffic should be avoided as it's pretty much the same as driving a manual with the cluch partially engaged.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

Hyundai has some nice EVs. Kona included.

I agree. Tons of torque too. Sandy probably has some seat time in those already.

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

My long saga of a paper income tax return to the feds reached a new level. A couple weeks back I got a letter. It was not about the repayment of the withdrawal accidentally issued by the company for one of my retirement funds. It was because I didn't check the box on line 7 that all the income shown on that line was from 1099div reports from mutal fund companies.

Wouldn't a properly set up computer system show the 1099div total and look for a Sched D for capital gains. If the total of 1099div's is the number on the line, voila, no schedule D needed.

So they wasted more time with letter out and a letter back. Still showing my return is in "processing."

They're as bad as the post office has been in past years. They're better now, but still subsidized by tax money.

My son finally got his federal refund this week. Filed mid May. At this rate they’ll never catch jmonroe.

imidazol97

oldfarmer50 said:

imidazol97 said:

My long saga of a paper income tax return to the feds reached a new level. A couple weeks back I got a letter. It was not about the repayment of the withdrawal accidentally issued by the company for one of my retirement funds. It was because I didn't check the box on line 7 that all the income shown on that line was from 1099div reports from mutal fund companies.

Wouldn't a properly set up computer system show the 1099div total and look for a Sched D for capital gains. If the total of 1099div's is the number on the line, voila, no schedule D needed.

So they wasted more time with letter out and a letter back. Still showing my return is in "processing."

They're as bad as the post office has been in past years. They're better now, but still subsidized by tax money.

My son finally got his federal refund this week. Filed mid May. At this rate they’ll never catch jmonroe.

I feel really dumb that I didn't copy the check mark in front of the numbers for long term capital gains. I had it checked on the scratch copy (I still have it ).

snakeweasel

@sda said:
From what I've read the DSG in the AWD Taos is poorly calibrated and hesitates badly from a standing start and is clunky in low speed driving. The FWD with the conventional auto does much better in these conditions.

I was thinking about this and hesitating from a standing stop. These transmissions are not automatic transmissions, they are automated manual transmissions. On level ground at a stop if you take your foot off the brake the vehicle should stay stationary. It would basically be the same as being in a manual car with it in gear but the clutch pedal depressed. Pressing the gas engages the clutch and then the car starts to move.

So I wonder how much of the perceived hesitation is due to the fact that the car won't start moving as soon as the brake is released like in a car with an automatic transmission.

tjc78

@snakeweasel said:

@driver100 said:
You have probably seen this commercial for the Mercedes AA Class Battery powered car, if not, here it is, well worth seeing;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k1tbf8muMc

Does this mean that the C Class Benz is powered by.....

Just couldn’t help yourself 🥴🥴🥴

explorerx4

@snakwesel,
DCT's are well known to be clunky/jerky. Having driven them before, I'd never buy one.

stickguy

DCTs are like anything else. there are good examples, and bad examples. My Elantra was just fine, and the TLX was excellent. But that design IIRC actually had some sort of torque converter to take care of the jerkiness from a start issue. I never noticed any issues with that car even in stop and go traffic. Don't remember any on the Elantra either but it has been a while, and I don't spend that much time in stop and go anyway.

Still, for a normal car, I would probably just want a good version of a traditional AT (like the one BMW uses).

snakeweasel

@tjc78 said:

@snakeweasel said:

@driver100 said:
You have probably seen this commercial for the Mercedes AA Class Battery powered car, if not, here it is, well worth seeing;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k1tbf8muMc

Does this mean that the C Class Benz is powered by.....

Just couldn’t help yourself 🥴🥴🥴

Nope, it's an illness, an illness that I love.

snakeweasel

@explorerx4 said:
@snakwesel,
DCT's are well known to be clunky/jerky. Having driven them before, I'd never buy one.

My only real experience with DCT's is with my bike. I, as well as many others, love it on motorcycles. I have never felt it to be clunky or jerky and have never had issues with it. And yes I am aware that on a bike and on a car might have its differences but as of now I like em.

stickguy

considering that for 30 years I only drove manuals (well, for my car), maybe a DCT just feels more natural! ATs always felt weird to me when I didn't drive them very often.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

@snakwesel,
DCT's are well known to be clunky/jerky. Having driven them before, I'd never buy one.

The only DCT I’ve driven was in various Ford Focus rentals. The ones from later models 17’-18’? Seemed to shift as well as any automatic, in fact I couldn’t tell the difference.

On a 15’ higher milage lease return I experienced all the problems associated with that transmission, jerky starts, feeling of slipping etc. I don’t know if that was because the 15’ was beat up or because it was in that 12’-16’ range that experienced all the problems.

cdnpinhead

Hope @abacomike did okay on Wednesday. I thought we might hear yesterday, but I guess not.

andres3

snakeweasel said:

@sda said:

From what I've read the DSG in the AWD Taos is poorly calibrated and hesitates badly from a standing start and is clunky in low speed driving. The FWD with the conventional auto does much better in these conditions.

I was thinking about this and hesitating from a standing stop. These transmissions are not automatic transmissions, they are automated manual transmissions. On level ground at a stop if you take your foot off the brake the vehicle should stay stationary. It would basically be the same as being in a manual car with it in gear but the clutch pedal depressed. Pressing the gas engages the clutch and then the car starts to move.

So I wonder how much of the perceived hesitation is due to the fact that the car won't start moving as soon as the brake is released like in a car with an automatic transmission.

None of the DSG's I've driven stay stationary at idle, they all creep forward as programmed to do I'm sure.

andres3

snakeweasel said:

@explorerx4 said:
@snakwesel,

DCT's are well known to be clunky/jerky. Having driven them before, I'd never buy one.

My only real experience with DCT's is with my bike. I, as well as many others, love it on motorcycles. I have never felt it to be clunky or jerky and have never had issues with it. And yes I am aware that on a bike and on a car might have its differences but as of now I like em.

I too, like DCT's. I've never had an issue with jerkiness or clunkyness in almost hundred(s) of thousands of miles. They seem smooth to me. I'm used to a little lurch at stop I guess.

It feels natural to me, like a manual. Regular automatics are noticeably smooth, but they feel rubber-band like, and slushy/slow to me. When an old geezer drives one, it seems you can "train" them to act like a normal automatic too (S6 test drive experience).

While I'd value aftermarket DSG tunes at about $9.99 tops (basically not worth it at market prices), it seems every B9 S4 owner's answer to the ZF8 is "it's good when you tune it = $750 extra to make it good enough). And then you have to wonder about durability and reliability if you "have to" tune it to make it right.

My TTS DSG is tuned, but honestly the only difference I notice is that I know what gear I'm in at all times on my display. "D1 , D2, D6, S1, S4 , S6" instead of just D or S. Before, you have to go to "Manual mode" to get M1, M2, M3..... and so forth.

JustinS

Hey everyone. @kyfdx hit 200k posts today! https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/67471/general/x/kyfdx-just-hit-200-000-posts

snakeweasel

@andres3 said:
None of the DSG's I've driven stay stationary at idle, they all creep forward as programmed to do I'm sure.

The bike doesn't creep forward nor did the two other vehicles I've driven.

snakeweasel

@JustinS said:
Hey everyone. @kyfdx hit 200k posts today! https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/67471/general/x/kyfdx-just-hit-200-000-posts

Wow 200k posts, that makes a lot of us look like slackers.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

@driver100 said:

You have probably seen this commercial for the Mercedes AA Class Battery powered car, if not, here it is, well worth seeing;

Does this mean that the C Class Benz is powered by.....

That was funny. I forgot to tell you at the time, I remembered at 3 a.m. this morning!

driver100

snakeweasel said:

@JustinS said:

Hey everyone. @kyfdx hit 200k posts today! https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/67471/general/x/kyfdx-just-hit-200-000-posts

Wow 200k posts, that makes a lot of us look like slackers.

But his boss only has 50!

mjfloyd1

@jmonroe1 said:
You could wake up dead by then.

jmonroe

The weird predictable part of being dead means that you do not wake up

jmonroe1

JustinS said:

Hey everyone. @kyfdx hit 200k posts today! https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/67471/general/x/kyfdx-just-hit-200-000-posts

That’s a lotta hot air.

jmonroe

driver100

mjfloyd1 said:

@jmonroe1 said:

You could wake up dead by then.

jmonroe

The weird predictable part of being dead means that you do not wake up

Yeh, I hate when that happens!

Sandman6472

Justin, a lot of us have been in these forums for years but for some strange reason, our accounts were corrupted or for whatever reason, and many of us have a lot more posts then are currently being shown. Think I've been in these forums for almost 20 years now, give or take, I somehow found this site soon after my kids showed me how to use the internet. So I know for a fact my current number of posts are just not accurate. Would be interesting if there was a real way to go back to the very first post and one, see what we wrote back then and second, see the actual number of posts up to now we each truly have.
Just something interesting to think about! Still a great site to come into & do, on a daily business. Probably my favorite place to come after my email and financial accounts.

andres3

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

This is just the tip of the iceberg, the main purpose of AB 43 is to gut the use of the objective subjective 85th percentile in favor of arbitrary and subjective lower speed limits for various loophole reasons now included, which will of course maximize traffic tickets and revenue generation.

There fixed it for you.

The 85th percentile is in no way subjective. It is measurable and repeatable. The very definition of science. You are just wrong here, as usual and/or almost always.

There is a mountain of evidence for the 85th as opposed to the 80th, or 75th, and again, it's from that pesky thing called repeatable results. The goal posts don't have to move; the results are what they are.

Most explanations of the 85th percentile state that it is an assumption that 85% of the people and that it is a "rule of thumb". Both of those refute it as being objective. It isn't measurable as there are plenty of examples were more than 15% of individuals were doing unsafe activities. it isn't repeatable as many studies show that the 85th percentile doesn't work in urbanized areas. because of that in 2018 a UCLA study recommended that California should end its practice of setting speed limits based on the 85th percentile speed and shift the authority for setting speed limits to local jurisdictions.

The "rule of thumb" seems to only be yours, the IIHS's, and other Vision Zero proponents position.

Go figure, the Engineers at:

1) US Dept. of Transportation
2) Federal Highway Administration
3) Members of the ITE (Institute of Transportation Engineers)

All see it differently than you do and your so-called uncited UCLA study.

https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/ref_mats/fhwasa12004/fhwasa12004.pdf

1. On page 10, when discussing methods of setting speed limits, the following terminology is used, and the 85th percentile method is brought up under the heading:
   
2. • "Engineering approach: A two-step process where a base speed limit is set according to the 85th
   percentile speed, the design speed for the road, or other criterion."
   
3. 
   

Further on in page 11 another section titled "Engineering Approach" (in reference to setting speed limits):
Engineering Approach
The steps in the engineering approach to setting speed limits include planning, coordination, data
collection and analysis, and finally, determination of the speed limits. A traffic engineering study is
the observation and analysis of road and traffic characteristics to guide the application of traffic
engineering principles. The study of speed limits includes the following:
Figure 1. Speed Limit Study Process for Engineering and Expert Systems Methods.
Select Study
Methodology
• Determine issue
at hand.
• Does the study
require a small or
large sample?
• Select the method
for collecting speed
data.
Select Location
• Select the proper
location.
• Plan the data
collection
preparations.
• Select a day
(Tuesday, Wednesday,
or Thursday).
• Complete
the pre-study
documentation.
Complete Study
• Collect the data.
• Evaluate the data.
• Calculate the speed
percentiles.
• Develop the limits of
the zone.
• Develop sign
locations.
Document
• Finalize the report.
• File the report.
• Communicate
the results.
12
• Review of the road’s environment, features, and condition and traffic characteristics.
• Observation and measurement of vehicle speeds at one or more representative spots along the
road in ideal weather and under free-flowing traffic conditions.
• Analysis of vehicle speeds to determine 85th percentile speed and other characteristics.
• Review of the road’s crash history.
• Review of any unusual conditions not readily apparent.

Then there's this doozy:

Within the engineering approach to setting speed limits there are two basic methods: the operating
speed method and the road risk method. Each of these is detailed below.
Operating Speed Method
Most engineering approaches to speed limit setting are based on the 85th percentile speed—the speed
at which 85 percent of free-flowing traffic is traveling at or below.

They sure do use the term "engineering" a lot when writing about the 85th percentile method. Sorry to burst your fake news bubbles.

benjaminh

I was on an Interstate in a 55 zone yesterday and almost all of the traffic was going 65-75. If someone was actually going 55, which no one (including the police car) were doing, it might possibly have been a bit dangerous.

@andres3 : What have you decided to get to replace your S4?

imidazol97

driver100 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

@jmonroe1 said:

You could wake up dead by then.

jmonroe

The weird predictable part of being dead means that you do not wake up

Yeh, I hate when that happens!

It happened to my buddy 12 or so years ago. He remembers part of it to this day.

Luckily they revived him since he was in the hospital when it happened after a surgery
botched by the surgeon.

tjc78

Just installed a Nest thermostat at the shore. Pretty neat device. Like how I can see what it is doing through the app. Perfect to check on the place while we aren’t here to see if something may be wrong with the heater.

Also will be great to have the place heated or cooled before we get there on Friday nights.

Can’t beat the price, previous owners left it brand new in the box.

Michaell

tjc78 said:

Just installed a Nest thermostat at the shore. Pretty neat device. Like how I can see what it is doing through the app. Perfect to check on the place while we aren’t here to see if something may be wrong with the heater.

Also will be great to have the place heated or cooled before we get there on Friday nights.

Can’t beat the price, previous owners left it brand new in the box.

We use Nest equipment at the house - thermostat and 4 cameras.

roadburner

Next week marks 26 years since I took delivery of the Club Sport. With over 148k miles on the clock I'll admit that I had a bit of trepidation about taking it to Hilton Head since the cooling system is totally original with the exception of a thermostat and a heater hose fitting. Nonetheless, it never gave a moments trouble, even when driving for hours on end at 4000 rpm or more. With the exception of the Miata and the BRZ/86, there aren't any small light cars with manual gearboxes that offer such an involving driving experience.

tjc78

@Michaell said:
We use Nest equipment at the house - thermostat and 4 cameras.

I may look into the cameras for the shore too. Probably on need one or two.

tjc78

@roadburner said:
Next week marks 26 years since I took delivery of the Club Sport. With over 148k miles on the clock I'll admit that I had a bit of trepidation about taking it to Hilton Head since the cooling system is totally original with the exception of a thermostat and a heater hose fitting. Nonetheless, it never gave a moments trouble, even when driving for hours on end at 4000 rpm or more. With the exception of the Miata and the BRZ/86, there aren't any small light cars with manual gearboxes that offer such an involving driving experience.

So cool you have a real history with the car and still love it. I assume it will never leave the stable.

I didn’t buy it brand new, but really wish I kept my 89 Town Car. I’d have it 20 years this month if I kept it.

roadburner

tjc78 said:

@roadburner said:

Next week marks 26 years since I took delivery of the Club Sport. With over 148k miles on the clock I'll admit that I had a bit of trepidation about taking it to Hilton Head since the cooling system is totally original with the exception of a thermostat and a heater hose fitting. Nonetheless, it never gave a moments trouble, even when driving for hours on end at 4000 rpm or more. With the exception of the Miata and the BRZ/86, there aren't any small light cars with manual gearboxes that offer such an involving driving experience.

So cool you have a real history with the car and still love it. I assume it will never leave the stable.

I didn’t buy it brand new, but really wish I kept my 89 Town Car. I’d have it 20 years this month if I kept it.

Yes, I can't ever see selling it. If my son doesn't want it(doubtful) I'm leaving it to the BMW CCA Foundation.
Your Town Car is very much akin to my ti in that it's a car from an era we won't see again- and that is what makes it truly special.