Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

stickguy

JM, good idea. buy up lots and do new house flipping. Build one, move in, then build the next one, move, sell the first. lather, rinse, repeat.

and please don't talk to my wife. She thinks building from scratch is so she can have a house that nobody lived in. When it is really so I can build in all the extras I want, like bigger garage and provision for the lift. The rest of the house, I don't care about.

stickguy

some dealers by me seem to have a few more cars. the Ford dealer actually has some F150s in stock now.

sure there will be pent up demand, but if the chip dam suddenly broke, it could clear quick if stock flooded the dealers. Once they have spare inventory on the ground, pressure is to beat out the other dealers. Prices won't stay crazy forever, but could be a while before you see huge discounts or big incentives again.

Michaell

The Subaru dealer where we got the Outback has 29 new vehicles for sale:

12 Ascent
1 Crosstrek
1 Forester
7 Impreza
1 Legacy
4 Outback
3 WRX

The MINI dealer has 16:

5 Clubman
7 Countryman
3 HT 2-door
1 HT 4-door

Michaell

Michaell said:

The Subaru dealer where we got the Outback has 29 new vehicles for sale:

12 Ascent
1 Crosstrek
1 Forester
7 Impreza
1 Legacy
4 Outback
3 WRX

The MINI dealer has 16:

5 Clubman
7 Countryman
3 HT 2-door
1 HT 4-door

Michaell

Hyundai dealer (#1 volume in the state) has 75:

2 Elantra
1 Ioniq hybrid
4 Ioniq PHEV
7 Kona
14 Kona EV
2 Palisade
17 Santa Fe
2 Santa Fe PHEV
17 Sonata
1 Sonata hybrid
2 Tucson
5 Tucson hybrid
1 Tucson PHEV

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

stickguy said:

at some point supply will ramp back up. hopefully normalizes (or close to) by the spring. when it does, prices will crash. Particularly used cars, new probably just settles back to MSRP without ADMs is my guess. But the absurd overpays on used inventory, the bottom could fall out of that quickly.

my only worry about buying something this year, with potentially planning to trade it in next spring when the next ordered car arrives! But I guess worst case, just keep the first one.

I just wonder how much prices will crash when supplies ramp back up? Dealerships are now paying higher prices for trade ins meaning that if the used car prices drop significantly they will take a bath on used cars. And they are getting good prices on new ones and may be hesitant on lowering their prices. Dealerships are going to resist any downward price movements.

But then again it only takes a few dealerships undercutting their competitors prices for prices drops to occur. So it will be interesting to see how car prices go over the next few years.

Used cars have gone up in price by about 25% on dealers lots....but, they don't have very many. Once the supply chain is fixed there will be a lot of pent up demand for new cars, and a flood of used cars will come in. Dealers won't make a profit on high priced used cars, but there won't be many left to sell.

I am wondering hos does a car salesman survive these days...with nothing to sell?

I notice that our resale lot is starting to get a few cars, maybe 20 as opposed to 500 but our other lot has been getting in a bunch of new car too. So maybe, just maybe things are starting to change.

Once the rental companies get back in the car sales business there should be lots of used inventory but much of it with a lot higher miles than before.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

@kyfdx said:

I think normalization is going to take a long time. From our shopping experience, yesterday, no cars available, all coming in are spoken for (which isn't a lot). Car shopping can be put off, but not indefinitely. Demand is going to continue to build, as long as supply is short.

Typically spring is a pretty popular time for shopping. If supply doesn’t increase I could see next March/April bringing even higher prices.

S60 goes back mid-August next year. Supply will most likely be thin negating any chance of a good lease. I may end up extending my lease (if Volvo Finance does that) and hope for better inventory in the winter.

Option 2 could be to turn it in, and buy a 5K beater for the limited driving I do

The only trouble with the beater plan is that the $5k beater is the former $2k beater with multiple issues.

ab348

stickguy said:

and please don't talk to my wife. She thinks building from scratch is so she can have a house that nobody lived in. When it is really so I can build in all the extras I want, like bigger garage and provision for the lift. The rest of the house, I don't care about.

I was watching a This Old House rerun the other day of a project they did a year or two back in Barrington, RI right on the ocean. Like most of their projects in recent years this one was very high-end although unlike others it was not super-large. They expanded and totally remodeled an existing place so it wasn't totally from scratch, but they tore everything apart to the extent that it might as well have been. The owners used an architect to design their new space and in the final show where they did the tour of the place I wondered what they were thinking. They had a master bedroom that was only big enough for the bed and a chair. No room for a dresser or other furniture, to the point where they had to use a smallish walk-in closet for all their clothes/shoe/misc storage. To my eye it looked nowhere near adequate. The trade off was a large "sleeping porch" (a covered deck) outside the MBR which was quite expansive and that I could not imagine them using that often, certainly not enough to justify the small size of the bedroom. This was just the most odd of a number of very odd choices they made with the design and fitting-out of the place. My point here is that while you are smart to care about the things you want most, you would be wise not to ignore the rest, lest Mrs. Stickguy gets a 400 sq ft shoe storage room while you (as these folks did) get a "TV room" in an 8'x12' space that could at best handle a 40" screen.

driver100

jmonroe1 said:

stickguy said:

at some point supply will ramp back up. hopefully normalizes (or close to) by the spring. when it does, prices will crash. Particularly used cars, new probably just settles back to MSRP without ADMs is my guess. But the absurd overpays on used inventory, the bottom could fall out of that quickly.

my only worry about buying something this year, with potentially planning to trade it in next spring when the next ordered car arrives! But I guess worst case, just keep the first one.

I have a solution to that problem. When you move be sure you have your house built and buy the lot next door. Then use that lot as a car lot until the township comes after you for doing that. You know the price of land ain’t going to go down so when you sell that lot you’ll be rolling in money and then you can build another house and get at least a 4 car garage and that lift you’ve always wanted.

jmonroe

Actually, the price of land could go down, and sometimes it does, like it did around 2008 or 9. When we bought in 2011-12 prices were about 40% lower than the peak, and today they recovered to about the peak.
I'm not saying I'm a genius (even if I am), I was lucky because it was a good time for us to buy. But, prices can go down, and with high inflation, high mortgage rates, lack of jobs, possible recession etc., it can happen again.

driver100

kyfdx said:

Michaell said:

kyfdx said:

I think normalization is going to take a long time. From our shopping experience, yesterday, no cars available, all coming in are spoken for (which isn't a lot). Car shopping can be put off, but not indefinitely. Demand is going to continue to build, as long as supply is short.

How many dealers did you visit?

After shopping, went home and discussed. They decided on the CX-30, and we went back and bought it. We had a trade. Taking delivery tomorrow.

So how much over sticker did they charge?
Was the trade-in price more than you expected?

kyfdx

driver100 said:

kyfdx said:

Michaell said:

kyfdx said:

I think normalization is going to take a long time. From our shopping experience, yesterday, no cars available, all coming in are spoken for (which isn't a lot). Car shopping can be put off, but not indefinitely. Demand is going to continue to build, as long as supply is short.

How many dealers did you visit?

After shopping, went home and discussed. They decided on the CX-30, and we went back and bought it. We had a trade. Taking delivery tomorrow.

So how much over sticker did they charge?
Was the trade-in price more than you expected?

$430 off MSRP
But, $349 doc fee and $199 VIN etch, so…. pretty close to MSRP.

Got pretty much exactly what we expected on the well-used trade.

Not a great time to get a car, but considering all that, they did okay.
The dealer’s first offer was just $450 higher, so they weren’t trying to kill us on it.

driver100

@kyfdx All considered, you did well. I was reading in the Tampa Bay Times today that some 2 and 3 year old used cars are selling for more than a new one would...if it was available. Dealers are scrambling to try and get decent used cars too, many have to go to the dreaded auction where competition is fierce. I'd say you lucked in not having to pay a premium for a new car.

carnaught

Attention all gurus and gear heads.

My neighbor has a 2020 GMC Sierra 2500 Denali and he’s just had his 5th battery replaced which is now dead. When it goes dead, not even the interior lights go on when a door is opened. Something is eating through batteries and he and the dealer are stumped. Any ideas?

The guy is no slouch to the mechanics of vehicles and keeps his fleet pristine.

bwia

tjc78 said:

@bwia said:

But why were you driving at 70 mph on 295 in rush hour? Thank God you made it in one piece but putting oneself and family in jeopardy to arrive one minute early is not worth it.

Why are you judging? Do I judge your posts? That was the flow of traffic and I had time to stop. Is this a particular road you know well?

Not judging you as much as reminding you that you are not the only one sharing the road. Be careful out there and drive responsibly. Speeding is never a good idea no matter the justification. Rant over.

roadburner

carnaught said:

Attention all gurus and gear heads.

My neighbor has a 2020 GMC Sierra 2500 Denali and he’s just had his 5th battery replaced which is now dead. When it goes dead, not even the interior lights go on when a door is opened. Something is eating through batteries and he and the dealer are stumped. Any ideas?

The guy is no slouch to the mechanics of vehicles and keeps his fleet pristine.

All I can suggest is to hook up an ammeter in series with the positive cable and measure the amp draw with everything turned off- then start pulling fuses until you find the circuit that stops the amp draw.

ab348

So the annual Consumer Reports reliability assessment is out.

Discuss.

jmonroe1

roadburner said:

carnaught said:

Attention all gurus and gear heads.

My neighbor has a 2020 GMC Sierra 2500 Denali and he’s just had his 5th battery replaced which is now dead. When it goes dead, not even the interior lights go on when a door is opened. Something is eating through batteries and he and the dealer are stumped. Any ideas?

The guy is no slouch to the mechanics of vehicles and keeps his fleet pristine.

All I can suggest is to hook up an ammeter in series with the positive cable and measure the amp draw with everything turned off- then start pulling fuses until you find the circuit that stops the amp draw.

I agree. Given the dealer must not have done this, I don’t think too much of them.

jmonroe

qbrozen

@carnaught said:
Attention all gurus and gear heads.

My neighbor has a 2020 GMC Sierra 2500 Denali and he’s just had his 5th battery replaced which is now dead. When it goes dead, not even the interior lights go on when a door is opened. Something is eating through batteries and he and the dealer are stumped. Any ideas?

The guy is no slouch to the mechanics of vehicles and keeps his fleet pristine.

Option 1: new dealer with competent mechanic.
Option 2: lemon law

roadburner

ab348 said:

So the annual Consumer Reports reliability assessment is out.

Discuss.

I bought an online subscription to CR when I was looking at new appliances, and I checked out the reliability of several cars. A lot of the owner comments described issues that I'd be willing to bet were due to incompetent dealer service. For example, a Mini Cooper owner complained about the heater not warming up the car- and claims he was told by the tech "they all do that." Completely wrong on all counts.

carnaught

@roadburner, @jmonroe1 and @qbrozen thanks for the input. Neighbor is bringing the car to the dealer with the recommendation and has already been working on the lemon law return. I’ll let you know.

stickguy

oldfarmer50 said:

tjc78 said:

@kyfdx said:

I think normalization is going to take a long time. From our shopping experience, yesterday, no cars available, all coming in are spoken for (which isn't a lot). Car shopping can be put off, but not indefinitely. Demand is going to continue to build, as long as supply is short.

Typically spring is a pretty popular time for shopping. If supply doesn’t increase I could see next March/April bringing even higher prices.

S60 goes back mid-August next year. Supply will most likely be thin negating any chance of a good lease. I may end up extending my lease (if Volvo Finance does that) and hope for better inventory in the winter.

Option 2 could be to turn it in, and buy a 5K beater for the limited driving I do

The only trouble with the beater plan is that the $5k beater is the former $2k beater with multiple issues.

that's why I gave up on the lower priced car to use for a while. I still have to convince the wife to get in it, and be willing to drive it. Prices on something that qualifies are so high now, might as well just get the new one.

driver100

ab348 said:

So the annual Consumer Reports reliability assessment is out.

Discuss.

Thanks, very interesting. Well, what I would discuss is that some of the problems in some cars are pretty scary. Like the Tahoe:
the redesigned Tahoe is well below average. The Tahoe has multiple reports of major engine and transmission problems, both requiring a rebuild or replacement.

How would you like to buy a new car and have those problems?

stickguy

lemon law that baby if he can. Probably easier overall.

Car Wizard has done a couple of really good videos on the process he uses to track down phantom draws. I forget the details on the interesting devices he uses but basically what RB said, you put a meter on to track total draw and then go circuit by circuit to see which one stops it.

tjc78

Very true on the 5K car… knowing me it would be a Panther or something GM with the 3800. Nothing highly desirable lol

stickguy

Considering I wouldn't get any domestic barge, my options are even more limited!

qbrozen

Might I suggest an Escape/Mariner/Tribute?

stickguy

Know of any that might be for sale soon?

I am kinda sorry I didn't stop to look at that one I saw a week or 2 back locally. Oh well.

qbrozen

I was also considering a Liberty or Nitro. Doesn’t seem to be any shortage of those. Of course, in our neck of the woods, finding them with minimal rust is the hardest part.

I’ll keep mine for a while. I like it. Wife is complaining of course. Fingers crossed for a Mach E this week to give her something new to tool around in.

sda

qbrozen said:

I was also considering a Liberty or Nitro. Doesn’t seem to be any shortage of those. Of course, in our neck of the woods, finding them with minimal rust is the hardest part.

I’ll keep mine for a while. I like it. Wife is complaining of course. Fingers crossed for a Mach E this week to give her something new to tool around in.

When do you get the ML back?

stickguy

qbrozen said:

I was also considering a Liberty or Nitro. Doesn’t seem to be any shortage of those. Of course, in our neck of the woods, finding them with minimal rust is the hardest part.

I’ll keep mine for a while. I like it. Wife is complaining of course. Fingers crossed for a Mach E this week to give her something new to tool around in.

I would be afraid to somehow deal us into only having old cars, and dealing with the wrath of the wife. If I swapped out her RDX for something like the beat up 2005 Pilot our neighbor sold recently, I would not have been popular.

qbrozen

@sda said:
When do you get the ML back?

Good question!

tjc78

@qbrozen said:
Might I suggest an Escape/Mariner/Tribute?

Always lean toward sedan for me, but beggars can’t be choosers.

bwia

Think Gas Prices Are Too High? In This California County, a Gallon Costs $6
Mono County, Calif., has the highest gasoline prices in the state with the country’s top prices as costs soar across the U.S.

benjaminh

Definitely helps make the case for owning an EV.

stickguy

Price gouging for sure.

graphicguy

Been a way for a little bit doing other things. Great to see the usual cast of characters are still here (at least the ones I’ve noticed on the last Forum page).

Everything good here. I think the last I left you all, I had decided to travel a bit as things loosened up from COVID. Travel I did. Went to Alaska, California, some “day trips” (Chicago, Georgetown KY, Michigan UP, etc) and am getting ready to head to France, Spain and Italy.

Enjoyed all of it.

The TLX is doing great. Got 9K miles with nothing untoward to report. As expected, it’s been solid as a rock, and probably will get it’s “A1” service over the holidays (checks, oil change, tire rotation). Got a dealership coupon for $49.99 for all of that. Getting around 22-24 MPG overall, which I’m pleased with given I keep it in Sport mode and am not gentle on the right pedal.

Both my previous Kia dealer and my Acura dealer said they’d give me what I paid for it in trade (~low-mid $40s). Nothing they’ve got that I want. Certainly don’t want to deal with my old Kia dealership. Car was great, the dealership dismal.

Test drove a new BMW M240 a week or so, ago. MERCY! NOt in the market. I must be getting old. I was happy to get into my TLX after the BMW test drive to get back into my familiar surroundings.

Have real estate people checking in with me all the time to sell my house. I’m sure it’s no different anywhere else, but they’re saying about $60K-$75K above what it was worth 12-24 months ago. Problem there….to buy something else, you have to pay that premium back. So far, think I’ll wait for the inevitable bubble to burst. But, given the traveling, I’m not home much. Plus, I’m only living in 40% of the house.

Gas prices…..just totally befuddled. Demand is predicted to drop 2+%/year for oil. More and more EVs are hitting the streets every day, with more and more being introduced. Yet, refineries and oil companies are gouging on prices. Keeping that up, and the move to EVs can just accelerate. Digging their own graves, so it seems. 12 months ago, there were NO EVs on my little cut-de-sac. Today? There are 6, with other neighbors making noises like that’s their next purchase.

Strange days.

Heard from @roadburner, @ab348, @henryn, @benjaminh and some of my other compadres a little while back. Not ignoring y’all. Just doing other things. Everything’s good here.. Hope everyone’s well. Happy Thanksgiving!

imidazol97

We haven't heard more from @abacomike. Last I read here he was heading to a rehabilitation area and
the urologist was going to work on regaining bladder function.

I hope he's improving.

jmonroe1

@graphicguy, good to hear from you again.

Glad you’re enjoying yourself. The word on the street was that you got a hold of an unlimited supply Woodford Reserve and you were having the time of your life. In a way sorry to hear that wasn’t true but good to have you back anyway.

jmonroe

stickguy

GG good to hear from you. Eye doing ok?

Agreed it has to be price gouging while they can. Root cause blamed on so many domestic producers shutting down when demand and barrel price crashed. Takes time to ramp that back up, and OPEC doing their usual market manipulation while they can. still, with raw prices where they are they seem to be padding to make up for prior lost revenue.

graphicguy

stickguy said:

GG good to hear from you. Eye doing ok?

Agreed it has to be price gouging while they can. Root cause blamed on so many domestic producers shutting down when demand and barrel price crashed. Takes time to ramp that back up, and OPEC doing their usual market manipulation while they can. still, with raw prices where they are they seem to be padding to make up for prior lost revenue.

Thanks! All good here. Lost vision in the eye I had all the surgeries on. Actually, I can see light and dark in that eye. But, that’s about it. Took me a little to realize my field of view is off, and depth perception was off for a little while. But, I’m kinda/sorta getting used to it. If nothing else, I’m much more careful while driving these days. I look at my mirrors much more…check my sides 2X-3X more than I used to. It’s helpful to have the safety nannies. As much as I used to hate them, now I embrace them.

But, I’m lucky. As they say…..things could be worse.

Hope you’re well.

I’ll hang out here for a few days. But, headed out Wednesday to visit family for Thanksgiving. So, will probably go “dark” again for a while.

graphicguy

jmonroe1 said:

@graphicguy, good to hear from you again.

Glad you’re enjoying yourself. The word on the street was that you got a hold of an unlimited supply Woodford Reserve and you were having the time of your life. In a way sorry to hear that wasn’t true but good to have you back anyway.

jmonroe

All good, my friend. Glad to see you’re still around and “schooling” those who doubt your prodigious knowledge base. J/K! Good to see your post.

benjaminh

graphicguy said:

....Everything good here. I think the last I left you all, I had decided to travel a bit as things loosened up from COVID. Travel I did. Went to Alaska, California, some “day trips” (Chicago, Georgetown KY, Michigan UP, etc) and am getting ready to head to France, Spain and Italy.

Enjoyed all of it.

The TLX is doing great.....

Good to hear that you're enjoying your travels and enjoying your TLX. All best wishes....

tjc78

@graphicguy Good to hear from you. Happy Thanksgiving

driver100

benjaminh said:

Definitely helps make the case for owning an EV.

Out there....where do you plug it in?

jmonroe1

@graphicguy, Not good to hear about your eye but from what you say it sounds like you’re adjusting. Still, that sucks.

Let me give you a little bit of advice. If you wise off and your girlfriend comes at you make sure you turn to the side of your good eye. If somehow she stuns you with a wild punch, do what I do, get into your rope-a-dope position ASAP.

Good luck.

jmonroe

ab348

I have been keeping quiet about my medical situation but it is time to give the group an update. Tomorrow I am scheduled for a TAVI procedure to replace my heart's mitral valve. TAVI is where they go in through the femoral artery in your leg and with some sort of medical science miracle, insert a new valve inside the existing one . I had this done 3 years ago for my aortic valve and it was a breeze to get over. The mitral is apparently more difficult to do but they believe it is my best option as compared to conventional surgery in my case, because of both my overall health and the complications I had after my open-heart in 2009.

I just got back from a couple of hours at the hospital for pre-surgery work and the signing of forms. It is always disquieting when they ask you what you want to happen if things do not go according to plan. They say that those sort of things happen only in 2%-3% of TAVI procedures but the mitral version is still somewhat new for them. Anyway, I gave them my wishes on that question and will be passing them on to my family members who are the emergency contacts. I'm feeling positive and think it will go well, but who knows.

It is likely I will be out of commission for a few days even if all goes well so don't fret if you don't hear from me for a while.

Thanks in advance.

Greg

texases

It's amazing what they can do now. Best of luck!

[Deleted User]

Yes, good luck Greg, hope it goes better than well and you're back on your feet again!

graphicguy

@ab348 …praying for a swift and successful recovery!!!!!!!

benjaminh

@ab348 : All best wishes Greg.