The bad news:
This weeks GM recalls:
*The largest U.S. recall Friday was for 202,115 older Saturn VUE crossover SUVs for an ignition key cylinder problem.
*GM SUV models. The problem, revealed in documents posted by federal safety regulators this week, is so serious that GM is telling customers to park the SUVs outdoors until they are repaired because they could catch fire when left unattended.
The vehicles will be left outside for a while. Parts won’t be ready until October at the earliest, according to GM. The automaker also has ordered its dealers to stop selling the SUVs as used cars until they are fixed.
The recall covers about 189,000 vehicles in North America, mainly from the 2006 and 2007 model years. Models affected include the Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy, Buick Rainer, Isuzu Ascender and Saab 97-X.
**The good news is **GM sales are booming. Seems people get a $500 coupon when they come in for their recall notice and they can't stop from buying a new car. I think they figure their old car isn't safe, or they will wait for months to get parts, might as well buy a new car. It will be interesting to see how much the trade ins will be worth, some are predicting they will take a hit.
@Kirstie_H said:
Have you had any strange interactions or bloopers with the voice command system in your car? A reporter would like to talk with you. Please send your story to pr@edmunds.com by Wednesday, August 13, 2014.
A couple of years ago I was test driving a new Lincoln(only in order to get a $50 gift card and because the dealer was making a donation to Food for the Poor for every test drive). I don't remember which model it was, but the sales guy was eager to show off the "new" voice recognition system; he said "Tune to FM station nine seven point five." The Linc replied, "Now tuning to gay radio station." My son and I couldn't stop laughing, my wife just shook her head, and the sales guy just turned beet red and said not a word for the rest of the drive.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
**The good news is **GM sales are booming. Seems people get a $500 coupon when they come in for their recall notice and they can't stop from buying a new car. I think they figure their old car isn't safe, or they will wait for months to get parts, might as well buy a new car. It will be interesting to see how much the trade ins will be worth, some are predicting they will take a hit.
Might make for some real bargains once they get fixed.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
@driver100 said: The bad news:
This weeks GM recalls:
*The largest U.S. recall Friday was for 202,115 older Saturn VUE crossover SUVs for an ignition key cylinder problem.
This must mean we need to start reporting all recalls and TSBs here. It seems, however, that finding TSBs for brands is difficult because they are usually indexed by models and years. Also some brands seem more successful at not issuing public TSBs for their vehicles but instead effecting repairs in quieter ways.
So we need to start looking for those TSBs.
They are car specific and year specific in the list here:
@oldfarmer50 said:
Might make for some real bargains once they get fixed.
GM's getting all and any problems out there and fixing them. I love the people who criticize
GM for not having run recalls and then criticize them when parts aren't immediately
available for fixing all the recalls when they do run the recalls.
@imidazol97 said:
I love the people who criticize GM for not having run recalls and then criticize them when parts aren't immediately available for fixing all the recalls when they do run the recalls.
Yeh, but, to not be able to park your SUV in the garage for 3 months because it might burn your house down - I would be very upset. If I owned such a vehicle I for sure would not buy another car from them.
I know GM is an easy target right now, and I won't say any more, until there is another recall at least, but, I haven't heard of this many serious recalls from any other manufacturer. Going forward, GM cars may be better than average because they will be monitoring the situation carefully. For the last few years though they have had a serious problem with quality control.
@driver100 said: The bad news:
This weeks GM recalls:
*The largest U.S. recall Friday was for 202,115 older Saturn VUE crossover SUVs for an ignition key cylinder problem.
*GM SUV models. The problem, revealed in documents posted by federal safety regulators this week, is so serious that GM is telling customers to park the SUVs outdoors until they are repaired because they could catch fire when left unattended.
The vehicles will be left outside for a while. Parts won’t be ready until October at the earliest, according to GM. The automaker also has ordered its dealers to stop selling the SUVs as used cars until they are fixed.
The recall covers about 189,000 vehicles in North America, mainly from the 2006 and 2007 model years. Models affected include the Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy, Buick Rainer, Isuzu Ascender and Saab 97-X.
This is a misleading copy/paste. The problem with the Trailblazer/Envoy group is not an ignition switch issue but a faulty master power window switch that can apparently short out. It is a problem only in climates where road salt is used. They have already addressed this issue twice with previous campaigns but now are going to replace the entire switch assembly with a new design.
Of course, you could just disconnect the switch until the recall is completed.
I think GM is taking flack because now they are recalling everything for every little problem that in the past might have been just a TSB. The media has the GM bone and is chewing it like usual. They have a tendency to kick when someone is down.
I don't think and more or less of GM because of the recalls.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
@ab348 said:This is a misleading copy/paste. The problem with the Trailblazer/Envoy group is not an ignition switch issue but a faulty master power window switch that can apparently short out.
What is misleading about GM advising people to leave their SUV outside because it could burn the house down whether it is a copy/paste or not.
We may be overdoing the recalls (though I think it isn't a good thing personally), but, some people will defend GM no matter what. What would it take to say GM made a mistake, a steering wheel coming off in your hands?
@driver100 said:
What is misleading about GM advising people to leave their SUV outside because it could burn the house down whether it is a copy/paste or not.
We may be overdoing the recalls (though I think it isn't a good thing personally), but, some people will defend GM no matter what. What would it take to say GM made a mistake, a steering wheel coming off in your hands?
I used the word misleading because you started with a reference to an ignition switch recall on another vehicle and left out the part about this one actually being for a power window switch, that's all. Since it is a window switch it is considerably easier to just disconnect it or pull the appropriate fuse and continue using the vehicle until parts are ready. Or park it in your garage. I'm not making any allegation on your part, just a statement.
GM makes all kinds of mistakes. All car manufacturers do. The implication left by some that they are alone in that is what I take offense to. When the new Fusion and MKZ were introduced one had a door fire at the Detroit Auto Show for a very similar reason as this. The issue is the continued focus on GM recalls with little mention of any others. Hyundai was just forced (under duress I might add, with the pain of a $17 million fine from the US govt for covering it up) to recall a bunch of Santa Fes because the front springs corroded and snapped into bits. Just thought I'd mention it in the interests of balance.
@ab348
I have to agree; I'm no fan of GM and I will almost certainly never own another GM product(like Toyota, they simply don't make anything I would ever want to own- C7 excepted) but I think that they are no worse than any other mass-market automaker. I've even recommended GM products to a few of my friends and acquaintances.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
@ab348 said:I used the word misleading because you started with a reference to an ignition switch recall on another vehicle and left out the part about this one actually being for a power window switch, that's all.
You make some very good points ab, but, honestly, if the keys were falling out of BMWs and doors were catching on fire and Ihad to disconnect the wiring so I could park in the garage I doubt if I would be buying another one.
Yes, all companies have recalls, and as cars get more complex there will be more recalls, and in some ways a recall can be a good thing. But, I have other choices and I don't have the patience for incompetence. And, maybe, just maybe these are the things that have to be reported. What if there are other issues that aren't safety related and the time has gone by where GM has to honor doing any repairs. And if faulty parts or poor engineering are showing up in the recalls that have to be made, how many other issues could there be?
I don't think I am being against GM, if I owned a bmw that had those kinds of issues I would switch brands.
Casa Roadburner is hopping- in between watching the PGA Championship my son and his friends have a large cache of firearms; target and skeet shooting are the order of the day.
And my son scored a ticket to the PGA for tomorrow; he's a bit excited...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I would certainly never want to buy a BMW because they have had problems
like this with fires. I can only imagine how many problems are in them
that we don't know about.
It's a pain having to shovel snow out to it, but there's a lot to be said for having a detached garage. No worries about CO getting into your house either.
Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm changing my profile pic for a little bit to show support & solidarity for Mike. I thought the pink ribbon license plate was appropriate for our forum. If anybody would like, I'll gladly email the image if you'd like to do the same.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Here is what it said about that recall. "Volkswagen Group of America is recalling approximately 3,594 2013-'14 Audi S6 and S7 cars in the U.S. because a fuel line leak may result in a fire."
Fuel line leaks and other similar problems (brake lines, fuel line too close to manifold etc) can happen. Usually a design flaw, but, these are caught and fixed before there is an incident.
I'd never buy an S6 or S7 anyway, but, these kind of recalls happen frequently, not in the same category as an electric window setting your car on fire when it is sitting in a garage.
@stever said:
BMW did have a fire problem not that long ago. 3-Series and X5s mostly iirc. The ones that made the news were the ones that burned up garages (link)
Thanks for the links and it does seem bmws and as one fellow said on your links....if you search any car you will find incidences of fires.
Most fuel line or electrical problems seem to get caught before there is an incident.
My point still, is if I got a notice saying I had to park my car outside for 3 months because it could catch fire I wouldn't buy another one.
But, thanks for making the point to everyone, I had no idea how many cars seem to burst into flames.
@imidazol97 said:I would certainly never want to buy a BMW because they have had problems like this with fires. I can only imagine how many problems are in them that we don't know about.
Interesting. Some of these cars look pretty old and they also could be modified. Might not even been taken care of......they don't look like regular cars.
I am surprised at how many cars catch on fire. Like one guy said, if you search for fires in any make you will find them.
It's an eye openner for me....how many cars seem to be able to catch on fire.
All these years and I only have one friend who lost his pickup to fire. He was on a long trip on gravel roads and thinks his carb basically shook apart.
"Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm changing my profile pic for a little bit to show support & solidarity for Mike."
What a thoughtful and much appreciated gesture, Bradd. It's been a tough couple of months for me.
Right now I am at my son's place in La Quinta, CA. It's 8:25 PM here and we just finished watching my grand kids on a baseball game. My oldest grandson (13) hit two home runs - good grief - a future major leaguer.
The doctor did not have great news. He said that even if the tumor turns out to be benign (which he doubts very much from the size and shape and location in his frontal lobe), it is obviously having negative affects on his behaviors and ability to maintain long periods of consciousness.
They are going to do more tests Monday morning and felt that the local hospital on Rancho Mirage had the right equipment to accomplish these radiological tests. That saves us long trips to Loma Linda for the time being.
His SO is terrific! She takes care of him like they were husband and wife. We are lucky to have her.
I have to do all my posting using 4G data since they don't have WiFi at the house. So it's much slower using my phone all the time and please excuse any typos.
Yes, it's such a heartache to lose one child to cancer and only weeks later to find out I could lose my last child. So young - early 40's for both. And I lost my wife at the age of 48. I am just beside myself.
I will be out here for several more weeks - or until the tests are done and we have some hope he will live longer than the doctors' prognoses. Our only hope is that they are wrong and it is not malignant. No matter what, they will probably go in eventually to remove it. They say that there is a good chance it may be operable.
Thanks to all of you who sent prayers our way - much appreciated.
We are blessed to have each day. Life is so tenuous.
An acquaintance from the neighborhood, who visited a lot with the shade tree mechanic that lives nearby and who helps me with car maintenance items with his full set of tools on loan, died unexpectedly at 48 leaving a wife and daughter last Tuesday night. Massive heart attack. Went in to take a shower and was found shower running but he was on the floor.
A 21-year old who was in our boy scout troop died at Maryland International Raceway last week crashing his motorcycle while learning how to race. I'm told it was the third death at the school recently from crashes.
Enjoy life while you can. Tomorrow is not promised.
@stever said:
All these years and I only have one friend who lost his pickup to fire. He was on a long trip on gravel roads and thinks his carb basically shook apart.
I don't recall any friend, aquaintance, or anyone I knew who had a car that caught on fire. It seems to happen on cars that have been modified or got old and something came loose.
Some of these stories seem to be like the Audi brake problem.....it is more than an actual fault with the car.
@driver100 said:
I'd never buy an S6 or S7 anyway, but, these kind of recalls happen frequently, not in the same category as an electric window setting your car on fire when it is sitting in a garage.
This included A6 and other models for a flawed part in 2001-2004. Doesn't mention if Passats had the same flaw.
"NHTSA has determined that over time the plastic material used for the fuel tank rollover valve when coupled with the stress from the bending of the aluminum ventilation line to the rollover valve nipple can cause cracking of the nipple. The end result is a fuel leak, which can potentially lead to a vehicle fire."
Waiting for parts, for which GM has been criticized, must not be so unusual. Here's a car report in June and dealers won't even start looking at vehicles until July;
"Starting in June Audi dealers will begin inspecting, reinforcing and repairing the nipples in question."
And another safety recall. This one reported publicly in December but dealers won't start until sometime
January. That means not driving car because if you have accident side air bags might not be competent.
"VOLKSWAGEN IS RECALLING CERTAIN MODEL 2012 AUDI A6 VEHICLES MANUFACTURED FROM APRIL 8, 2011, THROUGH MAY 26, 2011. DUE TO A PROBLEM IN THE STITCHING PROCESS OF THE CURTAIN AIR BAG, THE SEAM OF THE AIR BAG MAY NOT BE STITCHED PROPERLY."
@houdini1 said:
Some of you guys are acting like paid shills..... @roadburner said:
Yep
Assuming someone is including myself in that group, if I were supportive
of Range Rover as the perfect car brand for everyone and if I were criticizing
GM and posting about GM's misadventures with fires and problems, would
the reaction have been the same?
If so, good.
(I picked Range Rover as an expensive
vehicle that I don't believe anyone here owns or is tied to as a supporter.
If I'm wrong I apologize.)
I'm not paid by nor have I ever worked for GM directly or indirectly.
I'm sort of like a judge having to make decisions as to whether someone
has been fairly treated.
I would feel the same about Ford were it not that they sold me a
1973 Windsor 351 with timing gear/chain problems after 60K miles
and had been building the engine for years so they knew it was flawed.
The dealers told me if it was over 60Kmi, then the chain was worn
too much.
I had it fixed at the Ford dealer, who ripped me off, and traded it while
they had it in their possession finalizing the deal the afternoon I picked
up the vehicle from the repairing dealer. The Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
for which I had traded for arrived on the truck while I was finishing
the paperwork.
Flawless.
@oldfarmer50 said:
What's the difference between a paid shill and a non paid rabid fan?
I think even a rabid fan will-or should-admit when their favored marque drops the ball. For example, I will be the first to admit that BMW is "losing the plot" as the Brits say, by building cars that are bigger, heavier, and worse- softer than their immediate predecessors. I've even said that my mildly modified Mazdaspeed 3 is much more engaging to drive than any new 3 Series I have sampled.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
My parents are currently shopping for a Jeep Grand Cherokee. After a test drive, we keep getting "follow-up" emails from the sales person. I understand following up is a crucial sales tool, especially in the auto sales biz. Make sure it is genuine. The following comes to my inbox at 6:17 every AM:
"Anything I can do to assist you in your vehicle purchase? I am dedicated to providing you a wonderful buying experience. While I am eager to share the many benefits available to you when purchasing your new vehicle at our dealership, I certainly do not want to impose.
I would again like to extend my services to you, and I look forward to serving you when you feel I can be of assistance. Should you have any further questions, please feel free to call me.
Thank you again for the opportunity. I look forward to working with you in the future."
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
@houdini1 said:
Some of you guys are acting like paid shills.....
Because I only have my iPhone with me out here in California and my son does not have a computer in his house, I've not posted very much. But we are at my son's SO's house for lunch today, and she has a wild set-up.
In any case, we all have to think back about 50-60 years ago when our fathers bought cars. During the mid century (20th obviously), families were either GM families, Ford families or Chrysler families. There were no BMW families, Mercedes families, Toyota families, Hyundai families, etc., because of the way our fathers were brought up in their homes. Ford was Ford, Chevy was Chevy, Olds was Olds, etc. What I am trying to say is there are still many, many drivers who buy cars the way their Dads bought cars. As an example, "....if it ain't a Ford, I ain't buyin' it!" Or, "...if it ain't a GM product, I ain't buyin' it!" These were, and are, people who are downright attached to a specific make of product. The same can be said for refridgerators, ovens, electronics, etc.
Just because ab348 and imidazol espouse GM doesn't mean they are paid "shills". It's just their way of thinking, like our fathers' used to think. They have a certain attachment to a brand, which is far more American than apple pie.
I, frankly, have not attachments to brands. I buy what works and what has an excellent reputation for longevity and maintenance free performance, no matter if it's a car, an appliance, electronics/computers, etc. Although I tend to lean more toward Hewlett/Packard when it comes to desktops because of many years of experience with them. But otherwise, I am open to almost anything.
I have a slightly negative opinion about BMW, but that was because of some recent negative experiences with their 535i sedans. But I would still consider a BMW in the future. I buy many Mercedes Benz sedans, but not because I am part of a Mercedes Family, but rather because of mostly positive experiences with their brand.
Imidazol and ab348 are merely "brand" loyal consumers. I am sure if they had repeated bad experiences with GM products, they wouldn't be buying them either. But their experiences are obviously positive or they would not be espousing their high quality or performance.
There used to be something said for those who bought "AMERICAN" rather than foreign. But today's foreign manufacturers all have plants, for the most part, here in the U.S. Mercedes is building all of their new "C" class cars here in the U.S. along with all their SUV's. BMW builds most of their SUV's here in the U.S. So when you are out buying a new "foreign" made car, most of them are built here in the U.S. by American workers.
I conclude my essay on why people are brand loyal by saying, "...if brand loyal people were not happy with the products, they would not be brand loyal any longer!"
Most of us have been here for a long time, and certainly I don't believe that we actually have any "paid shills" here. However, if someone new happened by, they might get the wrong idea.
In your case Imid...I believe you are just a Patriot, and that is a good thing.
@nyccarguy said:
My parents are currently shopping for a Jeep Grand Cherokee. After a test drive, we keep getting "follow-up" emails from the sales person. I understand following up is a crucial sales tool, especially in the auto sales biz. Make sure it is genuine. The following comes to my inbox at 6:17 every AM:
"Anything I can do to assist you in your vehicle purchase? I am dedicated to providing you a wonderful buying experience. While I am eager to share the many benefits available to you when purchasing your new vehicle at our dealership, I certainly do not want to impose.
I would again like to extend my services to you, and I look forward to serving you when you feel I can be of assistance. Should you have any further questions, please feel free to call me.
Thank you again for the opportunity. I look forward to working with you in the future."
My local Mazda dealer did the exact same thing in 2007- except that they couldn't even get the model of the car right. The idiot kept asking me if I was still considering a Protege- which had gone out of production four years previously...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
@imidazol97 said:And another safety recall. This one reported publicly in December but dealers won't start until sometime January. That means not driving car because if you have accident side air bags might not be competent
Guess I'll have to scratch Audi from the list.
Once again, these recalls were for small numbers, no actual mishaps (accidents or death), and no cover-up, no possibility of a garage getting burned to the ground, not to mention house.
Like I say, recalls are a fact of life with complex products that are changing constantly, and car makers are at the mercy of their suppliers.
I am OK with standard recalls. You have made some good points that recalls can happen to any make and I did learn something of value. Number of recalls ****will not be as much of a factor ****when choosing my next car.
@abacomike said:I conclude my essay on why people are brand loyal by saying, "...if brand loyal people were not happy with the products, they would not be brand loyal any longer!"
People are lyal to a brand for those reasons and also to defend what they bought. Just human nature. You don't go out and buy a $30k car because you think it is junk. That's OK, if someone can put it down, someone can defend it. That's why they make so many different kinds of cars.
@roadburner said:I will be the first to admit that BMW is "losing the plot" as the Brits say, by building cars that are bigger, heavier, and worse- softer than their immediate predecessors
Unfortunately RB, they don't care what you think. The market for racing cars is small, the market for affluent Americans is large. It's a numbers game and the more people the car appeals to the more they will sell. BMW may have lost their heritage, but they are laughing all the way to the bank.
I am not a paid shill either, but rather a longtime GM fan (who has also owned VWs and Toyotas) that is bothered by both a "piling on" attitude and what I perceive as a bias in the automotive media. Many of those now writing about cars are what I call the Honda generation, and have a preference for Asian cars that is very apparent in their work.
Regardless, what I find most interesting is that while GM is recalling everything, other domestic manufacturers are largely silent. Chrysler has never been a paragon of quality, yet have there been any recent recalls for them? I find it hard to believe they are producing vehicles without some issues. Ford sold my brother 2 new cars that are plagued with serious rust - a Ranger whose frame completely rusted out in 6 years, and a Focus that had a gas filler neck rust out in the same amount of time. Both of those strike me as safety-related, yet no recalls. I know that the Ranger frame rust is a widespread problem. When Toyota had that problem on Tacomas, they at least made an effort to make it good. Not so with Ford.
I have learned a lot reading some of the forums here, especially the ones where people talk about buying used BMWs. Many if not most seem to have serious needs - exploding radiators, etc - yet are there recall campaigns for them? I do not know.
Comments
Looking for bigger wheels for your car? Here's an ultimate example.
Wanting that car that screams "Look at me" when you drive by?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well I may have to abandon my search for a used Porsche 996 and look this baby up!
It screams "I am a moron" to me.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The bad news:
This weeks GM recalls:
*The largest U.S. recall Friday was for 202,115 older Saturn VUE crossover SUVs for an ignition key cylinder problem.
*GM SUV models. The problem, revealed in documents posted by federal safety regulators this week, is so serious that GM is telling customers to park the SUVs outdoors until they are repaired because they could catch fire when left unattended.
The vehicles will be left outside for a while. Parts won’t be ready until October at the earliest, according to GM. The automaker also has ordered its dealers to stop selling the SUVs as used cars until they are fixed.
The recall covers about 189,000 vehicles in North America, mainly from the 2006 and 2007 model years. Models affected include the Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy, Buick Rainer, Isuzu Ascender and Saab 97-X.
**The good news is **GM sales are booming. Seems people get a $500 coupon when they come in for their recall notice and they can't stop from buying a new car. I think they figure their old car isn't safe, or they will wait for months to get parts, might as well buy a new car. It will be interesting to see how much the trade ins will be worth, some are predicting they will take a hit.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
A couple of years ago I was test driving a new Lincoln(only in order to get a $50 gift card and because the dealer was making a donation to Food for the Poor for every test drive). I don't remember which model it was, but the sales guy was eager to show off the "new" voice recognition system; he said "Tune to FM station nine seven point five." The Linc replied, "Now tuning to gay radio station." My son and I couldn't stop laughing, my wife just shook her head, and the sales guy just turned beet red and said not a word for the rest of the drive.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Has that chrome paint too. I always wondered with those big wheels, how do you make turns without scraping the inner fender.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Might make for some real bargains once they get fixed.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
What would play on a "gay" radio station, Elton John 24/7? BTW, I like many of his songs so I might tune it in.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
This must mean we need to start reporting all recalls and TSBs here. It seems, however, that finding TSBs for brands is difficult because they are usually indexed by models and years. Also some brands seem more successful at not issuing public TSBs for their vehicles but instead effecting repairs in quieter ways.
So we need to start looking for those TSBs.
They are car specific and year specific in the list here:
http://www.edmunds.com/car-maintenance/guide-page.html
Recalls are available
http://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/recalls-technical-service-bulletins-and-other-good-stuff.html
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
GM's getting all and any problems out there and fixing them. I love the people who criticize
GM for not having run recalls and then criticize them when parts aren't immediately
available for fixing all the recalls when they do run the recalls.
Sounds hypocritical. It takes time to make parts.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yeh, but, to not be able to park your SUV in the garage for 3 months because it might burn your house down - I would be very upset. If I owned such a vehicle I for sure would not buy another car from them.
I know GM is an easy target right now, and I won't say any more, until there is another recall at least, but, I haven't heard of this many serious recalls from any other manufacturer. Going forward, GM cars may be better than average because they will be monitoring the situation carefully. For the last few years though they have had a serious problem with quality control.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
This is a misleading copy/paste. The problem with the Trailblazer/Envoy group is not an ignition switch issue but a faulty master power window switch that can apparently short out. It is a problem only in climates where road salt is used. They have already addressed this issue twice with previous campaigns but now are going to replace the entire switch assembly with a new design.
Of course, you could just disconnect the switch until the recall is completed.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
I think GM is taking flack because now they are recalling everything for every little problem that in the past might have been just a TSB. The media has the GM bone and is chewing it like usual. They have a tendency to kick when someone is down.
I don't think and more or less of GM because of the recalls.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
What is misleading about GM advising people to leave their SUV outside because it could burn the house down whether it is a copy/paste or not.
We may be overdoing the recalls (though I think it isn't a good thing personally), but, some people will defend GM no matter what. What would it take to say GM made a mistake, a steering wheel coming off in your hands?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I used the word misleading because you started with a reference to an ignition switch recall on another vehicle and left out the part about this one actually being for a power window switch, that's all. Since it is a window switch it is considerably easier to just disconnect it or pull the appropriate fuse and continue using the vehicle until parts are ready. Or park it in your garage. I'm not making any allegation on your part, just a statement.
GM makes all kinds of mistakes. All car manufacturers do. The implication left by some that they are alone in that is what I take offense to. When the new Fusion and MKZ were introduced one had a door fire at the Detroit Auto Show for a very similar reason as this. The issue is the continued focus on GM recalls with little mention of any others. Hyundai was just forced (under duress I might add, with the pain of a $17 million fine from the US govt for covering it up) to recall a bunch of Santa Fes because the front springs corroded and snapped into bits. Just thought I'd mention it in the interests of balance.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
@ab348
I have to agree; I'm no fan of GM and I will almost certainly never own another GM product(like Toyota, they simply don't make anything I would ever want to own- C7 excepted) but I think that they are no worse than any other mass-market automaker. I've even recommended GM products to a few of my friends and acquaintances.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
You make some very good points ab, but, honestly, if the keys were falling out of BMWs and doors were catching on fire and Ihad to disconnect the wiring so I could park in the garage I doubt if I would be buying another one.
Yes, all companies have recalls, and as cars get more complex there will be more recalls, and in some ways a recall can be a good thing. But, I have other choices and I don't have the patience for incompetence. And, maybe, just maybe these are the things that have to be reported. What if there are other issues that aren't safety related and the time has gone by where GM has to honor doing any repairs. And if faulty parts or poor engineering are showing up in the recalls that have to be made, how many other issues could there be?
I don't think I am being against GM, if I owned a bmw that had those kinds of issues I would switch brands.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Casa Roadburner is hopping- in between watching the PGA Championship my son and his friends have a large cache of firearms; target and skeet shooting are the order of the day.
And my son scored a ticket to the PGA for tomorrow; he's a bit excited...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
BMW did have a fire problem not that long ago. 3-Series and X5s mostly iirc. The ones that made the news were the ones that burned up garages (link)
I would certainly never want to buy a BMW because they have had problems
like this with fires. I can only imagine how many problems are in them
that we don't know about.
Click on top picture to play video.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It's a pain having to shovel snow out to it, but there's a lot to be said for having a detached garage. No worries about CO getting into your house either.
Here's an Edmunds link to Audi fires:
http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2013-14-audi-s6-and-s7-recalled-for-fire-risk.html
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm changing my profile pic for a little bit to show support & solidarity for Mike. I thought the pink ribbon license plate was appropriate for our forum. If anybody would like, I'll gladly email the image if you'd like to do the same.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Here is what it said about that recall. "Volkswagen Group of America is recalling approximately 3,594 2013-'14 Audi S6 and S7 cars in the U.S. because a fuel line leak may result in a fire."
Fuel line leaks and other similar problems (brake lines, fuel line too close to manifold etc) can happen. Usually a design flaw, but, these are caught and fixed before there is an incident.
I'd never buy an S6 or S7 anyway, but, these kind of recalls happen frequently, not in the same category as an electric window setting your car on fire when it is sitting in a garage.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Thanks for the links and it does seem bmws and as one fellow said on your links....if you search any car you will find incidences of fires.
Most fuel line or electrical problems seem to get caught before there is an incident.
My point still, is if I got a notice saying I had to park my car outside for 3 months because it could catch fire I wouldn't buy another one.
But, thanks for making the point to everyone, I had no idea how many cars seem to burst into flames.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Interesting. Some of these cars look pretty old and they also could be modified. Might not even been taken care of......they don't look like regular cars.
I am surprised at how many cars catch on fire. Like one guy said, if you search for fires in any make you will find them.
It's an eye openner for me....how many cars seem to be able to catch on fire.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
All these years and I only have one friend who lost his pickup to fire. He was on a long trip on gravel roads and thinks his carb basically shook apart.
"Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm changing my profile pic for a little bit to show support & solidarity for Mike."
What a thoughtful and much appreciated gesture, Bradd. It's been a tough couple of months for me.
Right now I am at my son's place in La Quinta, CA. It's 8:25 PM here and we just finished watching my grand kids on a baseball game. My oldest grandson (13) hit two home runs - good grief - a future major leaguer.
The doctor did not have great news. He said that even if the tumor turns out to be benign (which he doubts very much from the size and shape and location in his frontal lobe), it is obviously having negative affects on his behaviors and ability to maintain long periods of consciousness.
They are going to do more tests Monday morning and felt that the local hospital on Rancho Mirage had the right equipment to accomplish these radiological tests. That saves us long trips to Loma Linda for the time being.
His SO is terrific! She takes care of him like they were husband and wife. We are lucky to have her.
I have to do all my posting using 4G data since they don't have WiFi at the house. So it's much slower using my phone all the time and please excuse any typos.
Yes, it's such a heartache to lose one child to cancer and only weeks later to find out I could lose my last child. So young - early 40's for both. And I lost my wife at the age of 48. I am just beside myself.
I will be out here for several more weeks - or until the tests are done and we have some hope he will live longer than the doctors' prognoses. Our only hope is that they are wrong and it is not malignant. No matter what, they will probably go in eventually to remove it. They say that there is a good chance it may be operable.
Thanks to all of you who sent prayers our way - much appreciated.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
We are blessed to have each day. Life is so tenuous.
An acquaintance from the neighborhood, who visited a lot with the shade tree mechanic that lives nearby and who helps me with car maintenance items with his full set of tools on loan, died unexpectedly at 48 leaving a wife and daughter last Tuesday night. Massive heart attack. Went in to take a shower and was found shower running but he was on the floor.
A 21-year old who was in our boy scout troop died at Maryland International Raceway last week crashing his motorcycle while learning how to race. I'm told it was the third death at the school recently from crashes.
Enjoy life while you can. Tomorrow is not promised.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Mike, we are all hoping and praying with you.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I don't recall any friend, aquaintance, or anyone I knew who had a car that caught on fire. It seems to happen on cars that have been modified or got old and something came loose.
Some of these stories seem to be like the Audi brake problem.....it is more than an actual fault with the car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
If I wasn't holding out for a 2015 mustang I might jump on the deals they're giving on the 2014s. TrueCar says they are discounting $5k off sticker.
Do any of you folks have links to any road tests on the '15 GT? Best I've seen is an article on a pre production 4cyl. Turbo.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
nyccarguy,
That's a nice gesture.
Mike,
Starting to feel stupid saying this but we're all pulling for you and your family. Wish there was more we could say.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
5K off? Hmmmm.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
This recall indicates VW didn't learn from an earlier recall involving the fuel system:
http://www.leftlanenews.com/recalled-6000-audi-a6-s6-and-rs6-models-for-fire-risk.html
This included A6 and other models for a flawed part in 2001-2004. Doesn't mention if Passats had the same flaw.
"NHTSA has determined that over time the plastic material used for the fuel tank rollover valve when coupled with the stress from the bending of the aluminum ventilation line to the rollover valve nipple can cause cracking of the nipple. The end result is a fuel leak, which can potentially lead to a vehicle fire."
Waiting for parts, for which GM has been criticized, must not be so unusual. Here's a car report in June and dealers won't even start looking at vehicles until July;
"Starting in June Audi dealers will begin inspecting, reinforcing and repairing the nipples in question."
And another safety recall. This one reported publicly in December but dealers won't start until sometime
January. That means not driving car because if you have accident side air bags might not be competent.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/14/2012-audi-a6-recalled-due-to-improperly-stitched-airbags/#continued
"VOLKSWAGEN IS RECALLING CERTAIN MODEL 2012 AUDI A6 VEHICLES MANUFACTURED FROM APRIL 8, 2011, THROUGH MAY 26, 2011. DUE TO A PROBLEM IN THE STITCHING PROCESS OF THE CURTAIN AIR BAG, THE SEAM OF THE AIR BAG MAY NOT BE STITCHED PROPERLY."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Some of you guys are acting like paid shills.....
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Yep...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
What's the difference between a paid shill and a non paid rabid fan?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Rabid implies diseased?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Assuming someone is including myself in that group, if I were supportive
of Range Rover as the perfect car brand for everyone and if I were criticizing
GM and posting about GM's misadventures with fires and problems, would
the reaction have been the same?
If so, good.
(I picked Range Rover as an expensive
vehicle that I don't believe anyone here owns or is tied to as a supporter.
If I'm wrong I apologize.)
I'm not paid by nor have I ever worked for GM directly or indirectly.
I'm sort of like a judge having to make decisions as to whether someone
has been fairly treated.
I would feel the same about Ford were it not that they sold me a
1973 Windsor 351 with timing gear/chain problems after 60K miles
and had been building the engine for years so they knew it was flawed.
The dealers told me if it was over 60Kmi, then the chain was worn
too much.
I had it fixed at the Ford dealer, who ripped me off, and traded it while
they had it in their possession finalizing the deal the afternoon I picked
up the vehicle from the repairing dealer. The Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
for which I had traded for arrived on the truck while I was finishing
the paperwork.
Flawless.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I think even a rabid fan will-or should-admit when their favored marque drops the ball. For example, I will be the first to admit that BMW is "losing the plot" as the Brits say, by building cars that are bigger, heavier, and worse- softer than their immediate predecessors. I've even said that my mildly modified Mazdaspeed 3 is much more engaging to drive than any new 3 Series I have sampled.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
My parents are currently shopping for a Jeep Grand Cherokee. After a test drive, we keep getting "follow-up" emails from the sales person. I understand following up is a crucial sales tool, especially in the auto sales biz. Make sure it is genuine. The following comes to my inbox at 6:17 every AM:
"Anything I can do to assist you in your vehicle purchase? I am dedicated to providing you a wonderful buying experience. While I am eager to share the many benefits available to you when purchasing your new vehicle at our dealership, I certainly do not want to impose.
I would again like to extend my services to you, and I look forward to serving you when you feel I can be of assistance. Should you have any further questions, please feel free to call me.
Thank you again for the opportunity. I look forward to working with you in the future."
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Because I only have my iPhone with me out here in California and my son does not have a computer in his house, I've not posted very much. But we are at my son's SO's house for lunch today, and she has a wild set-up.
In any case, we all have to think back about 50-60 years ago when our fathers bought cars. During the mid century (20th obviously), families were either GM families, Ford families or Chrysler families. There were no BMW families, Mercedes families, Toyota families, Hyundai families, etc., because of the way our fathers were brought up in their homes. Ford was Ford, Chevy was Chevy, Olds was Olds, etc. What I am trying to say is there are still many, many drivers who buy cars the way their Dads bought cars. As an example, "....if it ain't a Ford, I ain't buyin' it!" Or, "...if it ain't a GM product, I ain't buyin' it!" These were, and are, people who are downright attached to a specific make of product. The same can be said for refridgerators, ovens, electronics, etc.
Just because ab348 and imidazol espouse GM doesn't mean they are paid "shills". It's just their way of thinking, like our fathers' used to think. They have a certain attachment to a brand, which is far more American than apple pie.
I, frankly, have not attachments to brands. I buy what works and what has an excellent reputation for longevity and maintenance free performance, no matter if it's a car, an appliance, electronics/computers, etc. Although I tend to lean more toward Hewlett/Packard when it comes to desktops because of many years of experience with them. But otherwise, I am open to almost anything.
I have a slightly negative opinion about BMW, but that was because of some recent negative experiences with their 535i sedans. But I would still consider a BMW in the future. I buy many Mercedes Benz sedans, but not because I am part of a Mercedes Family, but rather because of mostly positive experiences with their brand.
Imidazol and ab348 are merely "brand" loyal consumers. I am sure if they had repeated bad experiences with GM products, they wouldn't be buying them either. But their experiences are obviously positive or they would not be espousing their high quality or performance.
There used to be something said for those who bought "AMERICAN" rather than foreign. But today's foreign manufacturers all have plants, for the most part, here in the U.S. Mercedes is building all of their new "C" class cars here in the U.S. along with all their SUV's. BMW builds most of their SUV's here in the U.S. So when you are out buying a new "foreign" made car, most of them are built here in the U.S. by American workers.
I conclude my essay on why people are brand loyal by saying, "...if brand loyal people were not happy with the products, they would not be brand loyal any longer!"
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Most of us have been here for a long time, and certainly I don't believe that we actually have any "paid shills" here. However, if someone new happened by, they might get the wrong idea.
In your case Imid...I believe you are just a Patriot, and that is a good thing.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
My local Mazda dealer did the exact same thing in 2007- except that they couldn't even get the model of the car right. The idiot kept asking me if I was still considering a Protege- which had gone out of production four years previously...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
That's a Jeep thang. (You know, one of those foreign Italian companies).
Guess I'll have to scratch Audi from the list.
Once again, these recalls were for small numbers, no actual mishaps (accidents or death), and no cover-up, no possibility of a garage getting burned to the ground, not to mention house.
Like I say, recalls are a fact of life with complex products that are changing constantly, and car makers are at the mercy of their suppliers.
I am OK with standard recalls. You have made some good points that recalls can happen to any make and I did learn something of value. Number of recalls ****will not be as much of a factor ****when choosing my next car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
People are lyal to a brand for those reasons and also to defend what they bought. Just human nature. You don't go out and buy a $30k car because you think it is junk. That's OK, if someone can put it down, someone can defend it. That's why they make so many different kinds of cars.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Unfortunately RB, they don't care what you think. The market for racing cars is small, the market for affluent Americans is large. It's a numbers game and the more people the car appeals to the more they will sell. BMW may have lost their heritage, but they are laughing all the way to the bank.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I am not a paid shill either, but rather a longtime GM fan (who has also owned VWs and Toyotas) that is bothered by both a "piling on" attitude and what I perceive as a bias in the automotive media. Many of those now writing about cars are what I call the Honda generation, and have a preference for Asian cars that is very apparent in their work.
Regardless, what I find most interesting is that while GM is recalling everything, other domestic manufacturers are largely silent. Chrysler has never been a paragon of quality, yet have there been any recent recalls for them? I find it hard to believe they are producing vehicles without some issues. Ford sold my brother 2 new cars that are plagued with serious rust - a Ranger whose frame completely rusted out in 6 years, and a Focus that had a gas filler neck rust out in the same amount of time. Both of those strike me as safety-related, yet no recalls. I know that the Ranger frame rust is a widespread problem. When Toyota had that problem on Tacomas, they at least made an effort to make it good. Not so with Ford.
I have learned a lot reading some of the forums here, especially the ones where people talk about buying used BMWs. Many if not most seem to have serious needs - exploding radiators, etc - yet are there recall campaigns for them? I do not know.
All I seek is some balance.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6