Honda Accord Quality Control Issues

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    Actually I don't spend much if any time trying to detect difference between cars.

    But if I'm not qualified, then who is?

    Maybe it's the guy who has a Japan built Accord and a US Civic. Turns out the Civic has a slight paint imperfection that the Accord doesn't.

    The muffler lasts 120,000 miles in the Civic but only 110,000 on the Accord.

    So...at the cocktail party he tells everyone that the quality on Japan cars is better...BANG! It's gospel!

    I have no real argument with you or anyone else. You can think whatever you choose.

    Heck, you might even be right!!

    I, on the other hand can see on differences nor can tha majority of the people who buy them.
  • elgritonelgriton Member Posts: 67
    "Actually I don't spend much if any time trying to detect difference between cars."

    "But if I'm not qualified, then who is?"

    Those self-contradictory statements pretty much sums up your standing regarding who is qualified to pass judgement about quality control issues.

    As to your analogies, I hope you give more credit to the intelligence of potential buyers when they walk into your dealership. If those analogies have any merit to our discussion, then might I add that a Yugo salesman telling his customer that Yugos have impecable fit/finish as far as he can "spot" them is analogous to your qualifications concerning Hondas.

    "I, on the other hand can see on differences nor can tha majority of the people who buy them."

    Finally, lets not generalize and speak for the masses when you have trouble qualifying yourself rationally or logically. I'm sure Honda owners of American and Japanese made Accords have and will speak differently to your blanket statement.
  • anselmo1anselmo1 Member Posts: 163
    When I started this topic, it was designed to highlight Honda Accord quality assurance issues.

    The V-6 transmission problem was discussed in detail as well as fit and finish. One of the biggest quality assurance issues that Honda faced was the balancer shaft seal problem. Honda finally admitted it was a design flaw and installed a $3.00 clip that solved the problem. Prior, balancer shaft seals were blowing which caused the seal, timing belt and sometimes the water pump to be replaced prematurely. A friend of mine had the problem and it cost him $700.00 to have the car towed and the problem corrected. Eventually, he was fortunate enough to have Honda reimburse him for all his expenses except towing when they had their recall bulletin.

    The fit and finish issue has been ongoing. As everyone knows by now, the Japanese factories do not have the same EPA standards as US factories. Japanese utilize an "oil base" whereas the American factories use a "water base" in its car painting process. Hazing on the dark colored painted Accords such as hunter green was a result of the water base standard.

    In conclusion, Honda does have its share of quality assurance issues to address in recent years. I guess, people remember the "bullet proof" Accords produced in the late 80's and early 90's and use this as a benchmark. Accords at that time were considered one of the best cars produced in America.
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    Does anybody, anywhere have any documented evidence that there is a difference in quality between the U.S. built cars and the Japanese built?

    Consumer Reports doesn't seem to note any distinctions, which I suspect they might if there were significant differences; alternately the alleged lower quality of U.S. built cars would drive down the ratings on all Accords and thus the CR rating would reflect that lower level.

    I also wonder if anyone has checked to see what pollution laws in Japan are regarding painting cars. Does anyone have any evidence that the Japanese cars are painted differently? Different paint codes perhaps? An easy way to check that would be to see if the touch-up paints are different for Japan cars vs. U.S. models. Bet they aren't.

    I have said in other topics that I think that Honda had decontented their cars in recent years (although they are perhaps starting to 'recontent'them), but I still believe that Honda's quality is better than almost anybody else's except Toyotas. Nobody,however, including the God Toyota has PERFECT quality.

    Sometimes I think we are arguing about how many Angels will fall while dancing on the head of a pin, here.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    I guess I should have chosen my words more carefully...

    O.K....In the six years I've sold Hondas, I have heard an ocassional comment that the quality level in Japan built cars is somewhat higher than in U.S. cars. Mostly in these forums.

    Curious, I have from time to time inspected two cars sitting side by side that were built in the two different factories.

    And...I haven't been able to detect even the slightest difference!

    I think in those six years, I may have had TWO customers ask that I find them a Japan built car for the reason you mention.

    That is TWO people out of the literally HUNDREDS of Accords I've sold.

    So, I guess the majority of our customers don't care either way.

    THAT has been my point throughout this exchange.

    You seem to want to make this some kind of a flame war...I decline.

    Perhaps someday there will be empiracle evidence to prove you are correct in some way.

    But..."far superior" (not your words) no way!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    I have a buddy who likes Henry Weinhards beer.

    On every bottle, there is a batch number.

    He SWEARS some batches are better than others and has gone from store to store looking for the number he likes the best.

    He has tried to prove his theory to me via a taste test. For the life of me, they tasted the same.

    Maybe I'm not picky enough or something?
  • codog1codog1 Member Posts: 12
    I've got a 2001 Accord EX V6 the owners manual says to use 5w-20 oil. Since no independent garages or Auto part stores carry this, I've been taking it to a local dealer, Honda North in Danvers, MA (15 miles north of Boston).

    When I get the receipt it says "oil - Texaco 10"
    When I asked the service rep what grade oil they use, i got a "We use what Honda recommends"

    I bet these guys are just throughing in the cheapest stuff they can get 10W-30. What affect will this have on my engine? Is there any way to make sure they're using the right oil? can Anybody recommend any local dealers?

    Thanks
  • elgritonelgriton Member Posts: 67
    How on earth did you conjure up "flame war" from our discussion? Perhaps your defensive retort when someone questions your opinion? Anyhow, lets move on to the more obvious rather than get bogged down on the subtleties.
  • elgritonelgriton Member Posts: 67
    Anywhere you take your vehicle for an oil change, it's most likely that they're using recycled oil purchased in bulk. If you want to make certain they're using the brand/specification of oil you prefer, just purchase the oil yourself.
  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    Motorcraft makes this weight oil. I saw it on the shelf of the local Wal Mart recently.

    My Honda dealer uses Castrol 10W30, or at least that is what they put on the service ticket.

    You can use 10W30 in you 2001 with no ill effects.
  • accord_loveraccord_lover Member Posts: 27
    I have watched my Honda dealership change my motor oil. They use Kendall 5W30 in a plastic bottle in my Accord along with a Honda filter. They do not use bulk motor oil where I purchased my vehicle.

    In addition, I have watched them changed my transmission fluid with Honda Transmission fluid.
    I guess you have to ask what type of motor oil they use when changing you oil and filter.
  • paulo3paulo3 Member Posts: 113
    Just ask the service manager what type and grade of oil they use for oil changes. Ask them if it is bulk motor oil? Be on the safe side and have synthetic oil put in your vehicle. There are no bulk drums of synthetic motor oil.
  • ed_swansfegered_swansfeger Member Posts: 45
    I have a mechanic that does all my work on my Accord. He uses a genuine Honda filter and Castrol 5W30 in the bottle. He swears that Castrol is the best oil on the market for my type of engine. That is a matter of conjecture but I tend to believe him.

    He did say that Hondas and Toyotas are the best built cars that he works on. Ironically, he says that his Honda and Toyota customers come in for only oil changes and routine maintenance as indicated in the owners guide.
  • dc_sports_ruledc_sports_rule Member Posts: 134
    My dealership charges $19.95 for oil and Honda filter change. Come to think of it, they have never told me what kind of oil they put into my car.

    Next time, I will ask. Hope it isn't that bulk motor oil that comes in those 50 gallon drums!
  • lugwrenchlugwrench Member Posts: 213
    Which oil filter is better for the Accord? Read that K&N oil filters really do a good job. Comments please?
  • accord_loveraccord_lover Member Posts: 27
    Was at the dealership to have my brakes adjusted this morning and had the opportunity to talk to a Honda salesman. He was telling me that the Honda Insight isn't selling well at all and they still have new 2000 models on the lot and the 2002's are arriving. I questioned him about the Accord redesign for 2003 and he wasn't aware of it happening. I guess the poor guy is misinformed or unaware of the model change.

    I did notice that there were only 3 2002 Accords on the lot. One V-6 and two I-4's. Ironically, both I-4's vin numbers began with J. He told me that the Accords are flying off the lot. Did notice that 8 new Civics were delivered while I was there. The salesman told me that the Civics are also selling briskly.

    In the service department, I say one of the service advisors handed new TSB's titled "Transmissions". Just thought I would relay this information.
  • steve05401steve05401 Member Posts: 50
    i have an '01 Accord LX sedan 4 cyl. auto., assembled in Japan (VIN starts with a "J").

    i've been disappointed by rather minor quality issues: the driver's side window regulator needs to be replaced (the window-- if open to any extent rattles when i shut the door); and there's an unlocateable irritating creaking/cracking/squeaking sort of noise somewhere in the rear shelf on the left side, but only when the outside temperature is below freezing.

    so-- after owning a canadian built 97 Civic and then a '00 Ohio-assembled Accord-- and having a few similar problems with each, i'd have to say they all seem about even. just my 2 cents.
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJMember Posts: 10,379
    I'll swear this question has been going on as long as there have been American built Hondas.

    Well, I'm on my third Accord - one Japanese and two American. Darned if I can see a slip in quality. My current car is a 2000 Accord EX. I will admit to being tempted by an SE at the time because it was built in Japan (and it was available in red). I wanted my 5-speed (not available on the SE) more than I wanted a Japanese built car. I'm nearing 40,000 miles and not so much as a little warranty repair.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • ebd135ebd135 Member Posts: 4
    Like a good little Honda owner, I've been bringing my 2001 Accord EX to the dealership where I purchased the car for oil changes. The great thing about the place is that you can watch the teenage luberactation "technicians" change the oil in my car. I swear that the oil I watched them put in my car was Honda Oil from the individual quart containers. I asked the kid about it and that's what they said they always put in the cars that they service.
    Later that month, I had the oil changed on my 91 Mazada Protege (175,000 miles and purring) at the same dealership. However, the oil they placed in my Mazda was the standard Pennzoil 5W-30 from the 55 gallon containers.
    The bill was about 3 dollars cheaper, but I was surprised by the apparent oil switch-a-roo that was going on. Granted, I take pride in the way I maintain my cars and in my humble opinion, unless you're will to spend major bucks on synthetic; oil is oil, but I was still surprised that the dealership would give not use Honda oil in a non-Honda vehical.
    As for this Japanese v. American/Canadian built issue, my Japanese built Accord has gone through it's share of teething problems. I think that those of us that own Honda's regardless of where it's built, can rest assured that we've got a tight and reliable car with a great resale value. Never mind I'm keeping mine till the tires fall off.
  • ed_swansfegered_swansfeger Member Posts: 45
    I have test driven both and the Altima is definitely rocket compared to the EX V-6 Accord.
    I would say the Altima is slightly more quiet than the Accord at highway speeds.

    The Altima interior looks cheap as compared to the Accord. Absolutely the worst leather seats I have ever had the pleasure sitting in--the Altima.

    Fit and Finish---I would give it a dead heat. Both cars looked flawless.

    Transmission (automatic)---I would rate the Altima a slight favorite.

    Exhaust sound---Altima all the way. Sounds like an expensive European-German sedan.

    Price---Accord hands down right now. I bet in a few months though you will be able to wheel and deal on the Altima like other Nissan products.

    Reliability--Edge goes to Honda unless the new Nissan Altima develops a proven track record.

    Anyone else drive both vehicles?
  • paulo3paulo3 Member Posts: 113
    The Altima V-6 looks nice but I am questioning the reliability over the long haul. The car is built in Cleveland, TN. Heard also that the redesigned Maxima will no longer be built in Japan but TN.
  • anselmo1anselmo1 Member Posts: 163
    According to Consumer Reports, the Accord has outstanding reliability whereas the 2001 Altima has above average reliability. Just wondering if the 2002 Altima will log in at above average?

    Read some Nissan board complaints about paint from their US plant on cars and trucks. Sounds sort of familiar doesn't it. It has to be the EPA guidelines of a "water based" paint.
  • rbruehlrbruehl Member Posts: 85
    The analogy is quite interesting. Have drank many imported beers and noticed that sometimes a brewery makes the same beer with a different taste. Guess Honda makes the same car in two different countries and both might look the same but are actually different.

    Lowenbrau from Germany made an excellent beer in the late 1970's that was exported to the USA. Miller brewery bought the Lowenbrau name and bottled it here in the USA. Same bottle but quite a different beer. Try to find a bottle of Lowenbrau today?
  • paulo3paulo3 Member Posts: 113
    Has anyone seen any pictures of the 2003 Accord?
    If so, please post them here.
  • m9431m9431 Member Posts: 38
    I just took delivery of a '02 Accord LX with auto trans. This one was assembled in Japan. I traded in my '01 Accord EX which had frustrated me with engine problems since day one! (see my earlier postings). Anyway, the '02 feels like a very different car--the engine works properly (something my '01 never did) and has no squeaks or rattles like the '01. Quite honestly, if Honda didn't come thru with a rebate for my problems with the '01, it would have been my last Honda--I was that frustrated. I owned two fine Hondas previously.

    After about 200 miles, I hear a slight 'whine' from the transmission. Shifting into neutral or park eliminates the whine. In drive, under acceleration off the line, it becomes a little louder. Is this normal? (By the way, all my other vehicles were 5-speeds; this is my first auto trans!)

    Anyway, as for the oil, my '01's engine was loud--until I used 5W30 oil in place of the 5W20. I noticed no performance difference and will continue to use 5W30 in the '02. The Owner's manual alludes to using 5W30 if 5W20 is not available.

    I saw one photo of the '03 Accord--if I can find it again, I'll post. It's supposed to have a new engine, 160 HP, VVT-i--the one that is being placed in the forthcoming CRV. Sleeker lines.

    By the way, in my search for an Accord replacement, I thoroughly tested the Camry, Altima, Subaru Legacy, and Passat. The new Camry has an excellent 4-cylinder! But that's all I can say for it; I'm not impressed with it's styling or bland interior. The Altima looks like a good contender but has a few things I disliked--the interior looks chintzy to me although the body style is great. It's also a new design, so a few bugs may happen. Ah, the Passat. The BEST of the bunch that I drove--my first choice. (But the deal on a trade combined with Honda's rebate made me go with the Accord after I could not find a Passat on local dealers' lots equiped as I wanted.) Oh, the Accord STILL is an excellent buy with good styling and holds its own when all factors are considered.

    One last observation: the sound system in the LX is audibly superior to the EX! (Yes, I'm an audiophile and engineer.)

    Now--can anyone provide input on my LX's auto transmission's 'whine?' Thanks in advance!
  • anselmo1anselmo1 Member Posts: 163
    The transmission should not whine. The problem you are describing is not normal in the 2002 Accord. I drove my cousin's 2002 Accord which was also an LX. I did not hear any whine when I drove it. It was a very nice car and drove excellent.

    Ironically, a friend of mine had a 2001 Passat that gave him all kinds of problems.(documented by VW dealership). Volkswagen bought it back and gave him a rebate towards another VW product. He opted for the Jetta. (Mexican made). No problems with the Jetta as of yet.
  • martye320martye320 Member Posts: 45
    When I start my car, or sometimes when I am slow to almost a stop, and in idle, the engine seems like its gonna knock. The car shakes violently...

    Is it a dirty fuel injector? I've done maintainances as Honda says and this is very scary. Also, my door lock squeaks when I lock and unlock it, but when I bring it to the shop, it never squeaks!!! This 01 Accord is annoying.
  • lugwrenchlugwrench Member Posts: 213
    I have had my steering wheel shake while stopped at an intersection but it never shakes violently. It shakes when it is cold out and the car is warming up. Others have stated this is a "Honda trait".

    I would try to duplicate the violent shake with a service advisor the next time you bring your car in for maintenance. Take him for a ride and show him what you mean.

    By the way, you mentioned you have an 01 Accord but you didn't say if it was an I-4 or a 6 cylinder.
  • ed_swansfegered_swansfeger Member Posts: 45
    My Accord's steering wheel also shakes when cold and at a stop light. Didn't know that this was a Honda trait?

    The transmission whine is not normal m9431. Have it checked ASAP at the dealership. If they tell you it is a normal sound, tell them they are wrong. Ask them to take another model out with you in it and compare the cars.
  • rbruehlrbruehl Member Posts: 85
    The old transmission in my Accord V-6 started whining at around 20K. It is not a normal sound and I suggest take it to the dealer immediately!
  • martye320martye320 Member Posts: 45
    Thanks! Actually, the whole car shakes and when I look at the RPM gauge (sorry I forgot what the darn thing is called) it is almost zero and it does feel like the car is just gonna die! Again, hard to duplicate because it does not seem to do it when I take it to the dealer...
  • paulo3paulo3 Member Posts: 113
    The new 2003 Honda Accord will definitely be the number #1 selling car in the nation next year. Will Honda address the quality assurance concerns on this new model? Will the V-6 transmission be fine tuned once and for all?
  • accord_loveraccord_lover Member Posts: 27
    I was wondering if anyone has seen any photos of the new 2003 Accord?
  • ed_swansfegered_swansfeger Member Posts: 45
    Automobile Magazine or Car and Driver should have some pictures shortly. Can't wait to see the new Accord Coupe.

    I agree, Honda needs to address the V-6 automatic transmission issue on the new model.
  • ed_swansfegered_swansfeger Member Posts: 45
    Saw this site 6 months ago. All those pictures have been doctored and is nothing more than a joke site.
  • dash400mdash400m Member Posts: 55
    Thanks Ed...
  • rbruehlrbruehl Member Posts: 85
    It will be at least 3 months before you see any pictures of the 2003 Accord. Automobile Magazine should have pictures of it in the February 2002 issue. This is what they normally do when there is a model changeover.
  • anselmo1anselmo1 Member Posts: 163
    Hope the new Accord is better insulted from road noise as compared to the 6th and 5th generation Accords. The air conditioning system could also use a boost.
  • accord_loveraccord_lover Member Posts: 27
    I can't wait to see the new 2003 Accord V-6 coupe. One of the things I would like to see is if they add molding strip to prevent dings on the doors. Hope Honda upgrades it sound system like other manufacturers. I am partial to the JBL system that I have heard on the new Camry.
  • riswamiriswami Member Posts: 192
    believe it. A poll is taken annually by a group of engineers who design and work in the automotive field. What Brand do they prefer - Ford.

    Maybe there is something to this Honda Quality Control thread.

    They did pick the Accord in the $15,000 to $24,000 class and they liked the Civic in its class. But I guess neither was that superior to edge out Ford overall!

    Here is another question - If the Accord is such a superior car why is it not used by some private individuals as a taxi? At least I've never seen one.You'd think that some individual who was smart would buy one due to its superior reliability which sould translates into lower operating cost.

    Or for that matter why aren't Acura's (3.5, Legends) used by limo companies? You'd think that someone would see that light.
  • lugwrenchlugwrench Member Posts: 213
    First of all, what source did you find that poll regarding Ford? Just this past week, the Ford CEO Mr. Nasser was pushed out the door due to the downward trend in Ford product's reliability.

    Ford might have some great ideas but their cars (I didn't say trucks folks) just don't hold up reliability wise. Some engineering fiascoes as the 1996 Ford Taurus and the Ford Contour come to mind.

    As far as Honda taxi cabs, you will find them in large numbers in Southeast Asia, China, Korea and Japan. Individuals are the prime owners of taxis in these regions and not large cab companies. Remember in the USA, Honda doesn't have any fleet sales such as Ford. That is why you don't see any Accord or Acura taxi cabs.
  • dudkadudka Member Posts: 451
    actually toyota's are used for cabs in japan. mostly toyota crown's. rear wheel drive v6 or v8 models with the modifications to the rear door so that the driver opens it for you, and if you don;t know how to use a japanese cab it wacks you in the shins.
    the reason chevy's and fords are used extencively as cabs and police vehicles in the US is the cheap parts, and lower labor rates by shops fixing those cars, as well as the brute force produced by their mammoth v8's. also fleet sales by these manufacturers give these big customers huge discounts that none of us will ever see.
  • dudkadudka Member Posts: 451
    hondas are used in nyc as cabs, but only honda oddysei and their sister/brother model isuzu oasis
  • ziggy21ziggy21 Member Posts: 13
    There are may posts on this board of a whining transmission on the accord, and what it was replaced at the dealer ship. Seems it is a mal-adjustment in the gears or somthing like that. From the posts, it appears that there is no hassle on getting immediate replacement.
  • walterchanwalterchan Member Posts: 61
    Which country that build the Honda Accord seems to be more quality with reliablity. Japan or USA?
  • anselmo1anselmo1 Member Posts: 163
    Without a doubt, Japan produces the better cars. The Japanese worker takes pride in workmanship and his job is a way of life.

    Some of the highest rated cars are manufactured in Japan. Names such as Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura to name a few. Given a choice between an American built and Japanese built Accord, I would opt for the Japanese model.
  • lugwrenchlugwrench Member Posts: 213
    You forgot to mention that the Nissan Maxima is also made in Japan. Unfortunately, this will be the last year since it will be now manufactured in Nissan's Tennessee plant. It will be interesting to track the new Maxima's reliability.

    Fit and Finish has always been the Japanese strong point in the automotive industry. JD Powers survey always lists the Lexus and Infinity right at the top in customer satisfaction.
  • ed_swansfegered_swansfeger Member Posts: 45
    I agree, I would want my new Accord built in Japan.
  • brettwerlybrettwerly Member Posts: 4
    I own a 2001 Accord-EX, my previous car was 1991 Civic DX.

    The Accord is a great car, but the fit, finish, and "solidity" of the Civic was substantially better.

    I used to (half) joke that closing the door on my Civic was like closing a bank vault door...

    I would have been happy to spend the extra 1-2k to get the better fit/finish/solidity that my old Civic had...

    -brett
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