2013 and earlier-Honda Accord Prices Paid and Buying Experience

1439440442444445628

Comments

  • jjrod3jjrod3 Member Posts: 1
    Just picked up a v6 EX-L Coupel w/o Nav for $24,990 + TTL. Zip Code is 52246. This price also reflects a trade-in on a 1997 Cutlass Supreme SL 4-door with non-working brakes in fair shape (which I figured would get me about $700 or so, not sure if I got that out of it or not).

    I think I might have been able to get this deal for around $300-$400 less, but I didn't want the hassle of the back and forth for the next couple weeks. The $24,990 includes the dealer fees and destination (they had to do a dealer swap to get my color choices), so with TTL it should be around $26,326 (sales tax of 6.0%).
  • canddmeyercanddmeyer Member Posts: 410
    I don't see any Honda APR deals, so I suggest going with the best deal she can get, whether it be from Honda or elsewhere.
  • hubble1701hubble1701 Member Posts: 1
    Hi sj6538. Great to hear about your good experience. What was your OTD price for EX? :confuse:
  • hp6130hp6130 Member Posts: 49
    Can you really get a 2009 accord ex-l v-6 for $24,498? If Edmund's numbers are correct (invoice $26014 plus destination $670 = $26684) that's an incredible $1786 under invoice. I pose this question to the honda salesman, can this deal really be had? I thought I did O.K. last feb. getting $2600 off of msrp. on our 08 ex-l 4 cyl. I'm taking the car in for PA. state inspection tomorrow. Hell I'm tempted to see what they will say about trading the 08 in on a 09 6cyl. Since I own the car outright, what kind of numbers can I expect? When we bought the 08 there was no trade. thanks.
  • jb_turnerjb_turner Member Posts: 702
    His price included a trade so there is can be no comparison to the price.
  • packerjohnpackerjohn Member Posts: 10
    I got an Internet quote in Illinois for $25,384 for a 4 dr 6 cyl EX-L (no trade involved), includes destination charges, but not taxes, doc fees, etc. How does this compare to what others are seeing? Also any feel for what Honda will do at the start of March when the $1,000 dealer cash on the 6 cyl expires?
  • whitesox2005whitesox2005 Member Posts: 7
    I just got a quote of $25,571 + TTL on a 4 dr 6 cyl EX-L, in the Chicago area this evening. I think they're low on my trade, but plan to see what I can do from here.
  • packerjohnpackerjohn Member Posts: 10
    What I always do when getting prices is ask the dealer for the price on the new car without a trade, then what he would buy my trade in for, with the explanation that I'm looking at selling my old car on my own. This way you can see what's going on. Had a couple dealers balk at that and I walked out the door.
  • dolsey01dolsey01 Member Posts: 92
    The best quote I received here in Boston was 25,200 but I seen quotes lower than 25K on this board.
  • whitesox2005whitesox2005 Member Posts: 7
    I'm getting slightly lower quotes on Passat's, leaning in that direction right now.
  • rik4rik4 Member Posts: 90
    if you need a 6cyl and you need a deal then look at hyundai. they will be much lower for sure
  • whitesox2005whitesox2005 Member Posts: 7
    Just got back, ended up getting the Passat for 26K, plus 0% financing for 5 years. I'm figuring on dumping the cash amt into my mortgage at 5.25%, which probably makes that worth $2,000 or so. I'm too lazy to do the time value of money calc to really get that $ amount. Passat is a turbocharged 4 that performed close to the 6 Accord in my opinion.
  • JaxScotJaxScot Member Posts: 5
    Well I don't think I got ripped off, but I certainly didn't rip them off, and might should have done a little better.

    LXP. Silver with gray interior. No trade. No money down (3.9% through local credit union). Florida, with 6% sales tax and a few standard state fees. Tag transfer. Includes trunk liner, splash guards, and window tint.

    OTD, 21,414. Hope it helps.
  • skrishskrish Member Posts: 2
    I am planning to buy an Accord LX-P. I live in Houston area. The quotes am receiving from the dealers are much higher than the prices posted in this forum. Any tips on a dealer offers good discounts??
  • nexofanexofa Member Posts: 31
    I'm no car-buying guru, but a couple tactics that I used a few weeks ago turned out pretty well.

    1) Tell the salesperson (only if it's true) that you're ready to buy the specific model + trim by a particular date, and that the dealer who gives you the best deal by the close of business on the day before that date will get your business. The very end of the month is usually a good time to buy since sales performance bonuses are usually determined on a monthly basis. Make sure they know you've done your homework, but that you're not desperate to close a deal. I bought mine (ACcord EX-L sedan 4cyl no nav) on New Year's Eve.

    2) Get your financing lined up ahead of time. Get your credit score online for free. Get pre-approved at a local bank, credit union, or with Honda Finance. Don't play the "monthly payment game" with the dealer. That's a signal to the dealer that they can easily distract you from the bottom line. Remember they make money off the financing as well. Only go with the dealer financing if it's a better deal, then use it as leverage in your negotiation. And don't be distracted by the "cash back" incentives, factory rebates, etc. - just focus on the bottom line.

    3) I don't know if it works this way everywhere, but I was told that the Internet sales staff at the dealer where I eventually ended up buying my Accord are paid a flat fee per car they sell, instead of a commission based on the price they negotiate, like the showroom salespeople. Which means that they can give you a lower price since their motivator is simply to close as many deals as they can. So I called around and asked to speak to an Internet Saleserson.

    3) Keep a detailed spreadsheet of all the people at the different dealers that you speak to, the dates you last spoke to them, the prices they quote you. And make sure they quote you prices on your terms, not theirs. My spreadsheet had a column for each dealer, then rows for every single cost: base cost, freight, tags, tax, etc. and a bottom line total for the OTD price. Don't be shy about asking them to repeat themselves and to let them know that you're building a spreadsheet to compare various dealers' prices. That lets them know you're serious. If you know you want a particular option (I knew I wanted the side moulding) get the price up front, and don't let them tell you that those prices are handled by someone else. Don't let them make you feel bad about asking them to repeat the numbers, and repeating their promise that there are no other hidden costs. I just told them that if any of the numbers on the final work order were different than the ones we were agreeing to, that I would simply walk out of the room. And be prepared to do that.

    After I finally determined exactly what car I wanted, I began calling dealers about two weeks before the end of the month, getting their "first number" - about $24k in my case. A week later I did a second round of calls, letting them know that I was still serious about buying on the date I had mentioned previously, and asking them to re-visit the price they had given me ("I've been talking to dealers x, y, and z about this car, and I just wanted to make sure that this is your very best price"). I got prices in the low-mid $23k range.

    As luck would have it, the deal I ended up with was from a post on this board, which I stumbled upon about three or four days before the end of the month. I spent the last couple days seeing if anyone could beat it, and was told that my price couldn't possibly be true, that the dealer was going to switch something at the last minute. It ended up being about $1000 lower than the next best price. I ended up with a base price of $21,800, and about $23,900 OTD.
  • ajcloneajclone Member Posts: 6
    nexofa, your price was outstanding. I'm just curious if anyone else has come close to that base + destination price. I was shooting for about 1k under invoice or around 23k (including destination fee, ads, etc.) before tax, title, license...but your post makes me want to be more aggressive. But that may be out of reach around here (midwest).
  • packerjohnpackerjohn Member Posts: 10
    Honda has $750 incentives to the dealer on 4 cyl Accords ($1,000 on 6 cyl) until 3/02. Based on that if the dealer sold the car for invoice and gave you the $750 you'd be close to the $1,000 under invoice. A bit of work might get you there.
  • ajcloneajclone Member Posts: 6
    Yep..that's still my goal but nexofa got much deeper under invoice...that's what I was commenting about. Also, it looks like I typed the wrong number as I think invoice for the EX-L with destination here is about 24600. Still, I'd love to get to 23k but yes, I think 23.5k is probably within reach.
  • dnhxdnhx Member Posts: 7
    Last year I was looking for the EX-L belize blue coupe, but an i4 manual. I couldn't even find a manual EX-L coupe of any color, or even a manual coupe to test drive. I ask several dealers in the area (Dallas, Ft. Worth) about ordering one, but they said they couldn't do it, the bigger dealers said they could get what I wanted, but after 3 weeks of them trying to sell me something else, I gave up on them.

    Just wondering how many others have been able to "order" the car they wanted at a good price.
  • skrishskrish Member Posts: 2
    nexofa
    Thanks for your tips!
  • bkc101bkc101 Member Posts: 4
    Hey Rickwjenn, I got my 09 EX-L V6 6spd w/o NAV in last November in Baltimore. Being early enough in the model year I got the EXACT car I wanted (black w/ blk leather). They didn't have it in stock, but they were able to trade with another local dealer. I even got 3.9% financing to boot! Call around to some dealers out of your area....a 2-3 hour drive to get the car with color/features you want is worth it, otherwise you'll be kicking yourself for getting something that you weren't totally satisfied with. Good luck to you.
  • oneder1oneder1 Member Posts: 6
    I am a first-time car buyer about 45 minutes south of Houston. This forum has helped a ton in understanding the buying prices and how to negotiate prices.

    Over the weekend I went out to test drive cars for the second time, and I finally decided on the '09 Honda Accord LX-P Polished Metallic. I already have all my financing set-up, but now that I know which car I'm buying I'm just trying to find the best deal. We have not talked about any prices at the local dealer in our area so far I've just test drove and picked the car, but after I went home on Saturday I immediately started gathering internet quotes from the Houston dealers. Of course, we'd prefer to buy local, but Houston is still close enough to provide more options. One Houston dealer came this morning back with (rounded prices):

    $20,457 Base Price
    $1,278 Tax (6.25% in TX)
    $51 Inventory Tax
    $50 Document Fee
    $33 Title Fee
    $72. License Fee
    $24 Inspection Fee
    $21,965 Total Drive Out

    Does this look like a good deal? Friday is the day I plan to go with my dad to finalize a price.
  • nexofanexofa Member Posts: 31
    >> ...I immediately started gathering internet quotes...

    Do you mean that you went through the dealers' Web sites to get a quotes? I found that I got much better pricing from calling and asking to speak to an "Internet Salesperson" than I did when I just got the quotes through the Web sites.

    Why? Salespeople evaluate how serious a buyer is through a variety of means, and a form on a Web site doesn't give the salesperson a enough of that information, a lot of which is intangible. So the Internet quote is, I believe, not going to be a dealer's "best" number. For that you need to call and speak to a real live person (preferably an Internet Salesperson; see my previous posts for the reasons). It can be intimdating, especially doing it for the first time, but just focus on getting the right numbers, and don't be afraid to ask them to explain anything you don't understand, and to repeat the numbers so you know exactly should be on the final order form. Playing dumb ("Can you explain the difference between x and y?") can actually be a good tactic, because they might make the mistake of underestimating you, which gives you leverage in a couple ways.

    And be firm on doing the deal on your terms - I had a couple sales people tell me that I would have to come in to the showroom to get final pricing. I just said (nicely) something like - "Here's the deal - I know what car I want, and I'm buying one on Friday. And I'd really like to give you a shot at my business, but I can't come into your showroom. So it's your choice."

    Let them know that you're serious - that you know exactly what car/trim/color/options/warranty you want, that you have your financing lined up, and especially be clear that you're ready to buy on Friday and that you're talking to other dealers and whoever gives you the best price by the end of the day Thursday will get your business on Friday. A firm deadline like COB Thursday will make them focus.

    Good luck! Let us know how you do!
  • alphavaalphava Member Posts: 1
    Hello guy,

    Would you guys be nice enough to tell me if i got a good deal on this. This is for an older year 08 Accord EX-L V6 sedan but NEW. I got it for 24,000 before taxes and registration. I was able to get them to throw in HID lights ($895), Lojack($795) and Lojack lifetime activation ($695) included for the price. Is this a good deal???

    Thanks in advance!
  • oneder1oneder1 Member Posts: 6
    Thank you for taking the time to respond! I appreciate it. You're right this process is intimidating for first-time buyers, and especially me as I know next to nothing about cars and am learning as I go. My dad is helping me out when I actually sit down to sign the final papers, but I am doing all the research on prices and everything myself.

    I've been hesitating start talking price over the phone, because all the fees added on to the base price confuse me. Mainly, I'm not sure what fees can and can't be negotiated. I will go back and read your previous posts for some extra information.

    One other thing though, when we went on Saturday to our local dealer, I asked for the Internet Salesperson whom I'd made the appointment with for test driving, but we sort of got handed off to a floor salesman once we were there. Is this normal? My mom and I even asked who we were dealing with towards the end because they were both talking to us at some point and were told it was the both of them.
  • nexofanexofa Member Posts: 31
    >I asked for the Internet Salesperson whom I'd made the appointment with for test driving, but we sort of got handed off to a floor salesman once we were there.

    That's what happened to me too, and it worked out fine. When I walked in I asked for the person to whom I had spoken on the phone, the Sales manager looked down his list of appointments, saw my name, and just said that David would be helping me today. He had the exact figures that the Internet Salesperson had given me, except for the side molding, and he just took my word for the price we had discussed. I had made the woman on the phone promise several times that the numbers she was giving me were the exact numbers that would be on the final order form (and they were), and that their wouldn't be any surprises (there weren't). And we went over the numbers several times until I was comfortable that everything added up. Again, don't feel bad asking them to repeat things and explain things. You can just say something like "I've never spent $20,000 before so I just want to make sure I get this right. And decide ahead of time if you want a warranty or not, if you want LoJack, and all those dealer options. If you want any of these options, know what they're worth before you sit down with the finance manager. Google "Confession of an Auto Finance Manager" and "Confessions of a Car Salesman" - both are definitely worth the time to read.

    >all the fees added on to the base price confuse me...

    All the fees and stuff will begin to seem more managable if you write them down in a spreadsheet. Again, look back through some of my posts over the last few weeks for a description of how I did my spreadsheet (not that mine is the only way that works, but it made the process a lot less confusing, and if I spoke to someone and they lowered the price since the last time I spoke to them, it was really easy to see if that was the best price overall). And ask lots of questions - like it might not seem obvious to a first time buyer that "freight" is the same as "destination charge". The dealers do stuff like that just make it just a little harder for some people to compare apples to apples. A spreadsheet helps keep all that straight. If you don't have Excel, try Google Docs (free and available from anywhere). Plus, telling a salesperson that you're tracking everything in a spreadsheet lets them know that you mean business, and that they probably won't be able to BS you.

    And regardless of all the fees and stuff - all you're looking for is the absolutely best bottom line number, and you should be totally comfortable with how the salesperson arrived at it. Don't be distracted by the rebates, cash back, incentives, which fees can be negotiated and which can't, the "we're losing money on this deal..." comments, , etc. Don't play the monthly payment game. It's all irrelevant, and it's designed to distract you and to make you think you're getting a better deal. If you want a dealer to knock $500 off the price of a car to match a competitor, it shouldn't matter to you whether it comes off the base price of the car, or from the document fees, or whatever. Let them worry about that. Even though buying your first car is a very emotional thing, don't let your emotions take over the process. Kepp telling yourself that this is a business transaction, pure and simple.

    And try to overcome your reluctance to talk money. That's a signal to a salesperson, and not one that works in your favor. Don't expect to get their best price right away. You get an initial figure one day, then as the big day approaches you call to tell them that you've been shopping around, that you're ready to buy on Friday, and "is that really your very best price?" And then get them to repeat all the figures to make sure they match up to what they've told you before.
  • nexofanexofa Member Posts: 31
    Great link alamocity.

    With the salesman at the nearby dealer where we take my wife's CRV for service, I tried making the argument (Step 5) that we should get a better deal on my new Accord because we'll be bringing in not one but two cars for service there. He didn't seem to care. I ended up buying somewhere else.
  • stripe1stripe1 Member Posts: 72
    Been to five dealers in the past month to trade my 08 Acura TL w/nav, six months old, and 3300 miles even up, for an 09 Accord EX Sdn L V-6 W/Nav. I had no takers, and was about to call it quits. I had one Honda Dealer in Manahawkin, NJ, state $8,000, and my car. I thought that he was joking, but he was serious. He on three occasions told me to sit tight, and wait a minute. He finally got it down to $6,000. It was time to leave. On my last try with another dealer in North Jersey, which was this past Saturday, I finally met a sales person who offer no b/s. His first offer was $3,600, and my car. I stated $1,500, and after a few minutes of waiting he came back, and said OK. It's the green color Accvord, which for some reason is difficult to come by in the V-6 W/Nav. He stated that he should be able to have it in his dealership by the end of this week.

    On the agreement, it states the following; "If A Purchase, The Following Apply: Vehicle Protection Program $198.00, Credit Inquiry Fee (if applicable) $19.00, Co-Buyer Credit Inquiry Fee (if applicable) $19.00 (Wife will be on title), Registration/ Title Fee, with Transfer checked off, $40.50, DOC Fee, $279.00, and Online Registration Fee, $7.70. The registration fee is hand written, and the rest highlighted on the form that was there when form was made.

    Before I signed form, I stated that I wanted what was on my TL at no charge, and that was pin stripe, wheel locks, mud guards, and matching color door edge guards. When I'm called to inform me that the car is in, I'm going to ask at no charge, for matching color door protection molding.

    I new that I would take a hit in selling the TL after such a short time of ownership. I could have sold it privately, but would of paid sales tax big time when purchasing the Accord at agreed price. I'll pay sales tax only on $1,500. However, I strongly feel that my hit wasn't as bad as I thought. The TL is a great car, but because of a personal situation I had to sell it.

    MSRP for Accord is apprx. $31,575. The price accepted by the dealer for the Accord was $27,400.
  • oneder1oneder1 Member Posts: 6
    Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a detailed response; honestly it is all very helpful. I do intend to take your advice on the spreadsheet, before I've just been keeping a stack of papers with all the e-mails I've gathered which makes it hard to keep all the figures and all the dealers straight.

    Thank you alamocity that link was great. I had not seen that site yet in my searching on the internet. It is very well laid out with steps for someone like me.

    We shall see how it goes! I'll be sure to stop back by in a few days (and hopefully I've bought my Accord).
  • brim180brim180 Member Posts: 15
    Just bought yesterday in Maryland.

    I don't have the exact numbers (except the OTD price) on the top of my head, but I think I got a good deal.

    2009 Accord EX 4cyl Auto Sedan in Royal Blue

    Base Price = $20500 + Tax & Fees = $22000 Out the door

    I knew it was the last day for the incentives, so I tried to get it as low as I can.
  • mg0108mg0108 Member Posts: 1
    Hi,
    I am trying to see what a good price in NC is is the 09 Honda Accord EX-L 4 Cyl Auto Sedan. I don't need any additional options. Our sales tax is 3% and most fees are 400.00. Is 23,000 before tax and fees good? Thanks.
  • pp1982pp1982 Member Posts: 4
    Hi,
    I am trying to figure out a good price in North Carolina for 2009 Honda Accord EX-L 6Cyl Automatic Sedan. NC sales tax is 3% and dealer fees are $400. Is $24,998 price before taxes and title a good price? Thank you for all the help.
  • rsaxbergrsaxberg Member Posts: 1
    That's a really great deal. Can you tell me where? give me a name and is it okay that I put you as a reference.

    Thanks,

    Richard
  • brim180brim180 Member Posts: 15
    I just checked the incentives and it seems be $1000 for all accords.
  • pp1982pp1982 Member Posts: 4
    Hubert Vester Honda in Wilson, NC. The internet sales manager is Janel Buckingham. The MSRP for this EX-L V6 Auto sedan is is $29,225. I hope this helps.
  • pp1982pp1982 Member Posts: 4
    I am sorry that I gave incorrect information. The numbers I mentioned above are for 2009 Accord EX-L. auto sedan.
  • gadudegadude Member Posts: 10
    I am planning to buy a 2009 Accord EX 4 door but not sure what price should I offer to them.
    Did anyone recently buy EX 4 door model from a dealer near by Atlanta ? Do you guys have any idea what should be good deal (Out the door price with 7% tax) ?
  • brim180brim180 Member Posts: 15
    I got mine for $20455 (Base Price) in Maryland and that was with the $750 incentive. This month I believe they have a $1000 incentive, so you might be able to do better. I got it for $22000 OTD. Maryland taxes are 6%. I would aim for around that.
  • gadudegadude Member Posts: 10
    brim180,
    Can you tell what all fees you have paid ? Dealer is asking following fee

    Destination Charge $670
    Document Fee $599.00
    Wra fee $3.00
    Title $18.00
    Tax 7%
  • brim180brim180 Member Posts: 15
    -gadude,

    Here's the breakdown of my 2009 Honda Accord EX 4 Cyl Automatic Sedan:

    Base Price - $20450.94
    Electronic Title Transmission Fee - $20.00
    Dealer Processing Charge - $100.00
    Tire Recycling Fee - $4.00
    Title Fees - $50.00
    Lien Filing Fees - $14.00
    Title Tax (6% in Maryland) - $1233.06

    OTD = $22000

    The car also has the "appearance package" that consists of wheel locks and mud guards.
    .
    I pretty much just negotiated the OTD price with dealers until I was happy. It was the last day for the February incentives and we had that snow storm that came in that day. I think they were pretty desperate to make a sale that day since no customers was there when I picked it up.
  • ibuyhondaonlyibuyhondaonly Member Posts: 13
    dude,i think you got ripped off!!1st they charged you almost $450 for processing fees?it should only cost around $200.2nd,the car you got at $22,738 has some room,i got mine at $22,694 but with moonroof visor(retail at 595),i didn't have the side molding,but they put the window tint for me and told me it is life time warranty.i almost got trick because they made me buy the intire(some tire protection plan,i guess they didn't make money front,they want to make some money for their finance guy at least) from them,by the time i went to finance room i told them i dont think i got a good deal and some other dealer offered me cheaper,then they told me they will take care me and give me tire warranty for free,and its interest free if i finance.i said" if it is free why not".so they told me they took care it and made me feel like i got a better deal,after i signed my paper work,i figured out when i got home by reviewing the papers i signed(lots yellow and pink)it was not free!!,it is charged on a pink paper,but they dropped their car's price $565 additional to make it looks even.and guess what,i went there after i bought the car and just told them i want to cancel my intire warranty and they did it for me.but they asked me to give them a good survey which i did as a favor in return.

    so i think you at least paid $1000 more for your car.or maybe there was no incentives at your time,i bought mine at feb 28th,which they said it should be the best time to buy the car.

    but i didnt finance,dealer said there is no special rate but they can match what i have with my own bank.but my bank says 8% which is too high for me,so i paid cash.
  • godeacsgodeacs Member Posts: 481
    uh, don't think rsaxberg was asking you for that info!!!.....Also, you're not supposed to list sales folks' names here........ :)
  • LocaRojaLocaRoja Member Posts: 9
    Just bought a 2009 Honda Accord EX-L 4-cylinder automatic with no/navi tonight in central NJ. I had received the $500 off coupon from Honda (off your best negiotiated rate). Here's what I left with:

    Base car: 21850.00 (invoice = 23,935 so it was 2,000 under invoice)
    Destination: 670.00
    Sales tax (7%): 1576
    New tire fee: 7.50
    Online processing fee: 8.30
    Registration/title: 251.00
    Documentation fee: 259.00
    OTD: 24,622

    I think I did okay? Thoughts.... :confuse:
  • LocaRojaLocaRoja Member Posts: 9
    Forgot to mention this was for a sedan.
  • ibuyhondaonlyibuyhondaonly Member Posts: 13
    if you bought a exl without any addons you paid too much.but if none of us let dealer make any money even a dollar,all dealer will go out for business.so let's hope there is still someone who will pay some gross for the dealer.so we can keep stealing some cars from them in the future.
    and you should not pay any fees but tax title lincens.and a $50 dmv doc fee.first time i heard there is new tire fee and online processing fee.and it is only 15 bucks,they wont throw in for you???

    btw ,in the future let's post the done deal with vin number or dealer quote with stock number,otherwise no one gonna believe us.
  • ibuyhondaonlyibuyhondaonly Member Posts: 13
    man you should wait,feb's incentive is only 750,march is going for 1000 now.
  • jb_turnerjb_turner Member Posts: 702
    This is a high price. Are you sure it does not have NAVI? The price you mentioned would be for one with NAVI.
  • lyakirlyakir Member Posts: 21
    Are you saying your netcap cost was $20500 for an EX auto? With MSRP $25075?
  • brim180brim180 Member Posts: 15
    lyakir,

    See my post #22918. The selling price also included the Destination charge and yes it was $20450 for an EX auto. So I think I did pretty good. I had to negotiate hard though.
  • brim180brim180 Member Posts: 15
    yeah, i didn't know what the incentives were going to be for march, so i didn't want to risk it. i think i got a great deal either way.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.