Jeep Liberty: Problems & Solutions

byrdman1107

Regarding my 2002 Jeep Liberty Limited, which pulls to the right since I purchased the vehicle.
After every wheel alignment, I have requested a copy of the computer print-out from the alignment machine for my records. The service shop has refused to give me a copy, saying "it's a factory warranty repair policy and we can't give the customer a copy." The last wheel alignment service call, the technician did show me the computer printout, explained why the numbers are different from side to side to compensate for the misalignment to the left, but still refused to give me a copy of the report. I don't even have any proof that I have ever been to the service shop for a wheel alignment. It's my Jeep, my warranty, why can't I get a copy of the service work performed on my vehicle. Does this sound hokey ((noticeably contrived; artificial( definition for the international readers ))? My Jeep looks great in the parking lot too! I guess my problem is that I acutally want to drive the Jeep, and not have to keep turning left to make the vehicle track straight.

birdhumm

I have had my 2002 5 speed Lib to the dealer twice for fouled plugs. The first time, the dealer replaced the #1 plug and told me it was just a "bad plug" that was at 9k mileage. I just had another plug foul at 17k milage. The dealer told me that I should replace all plugs (at my cost) because "it would just keep happening" I think there is something wrong with this. The manual says that plugs are good for 45k mileage. Has anyone else had an issue with this.

galileo423

I just signed up on this board tonight in hopes of finding others with this problem. I bought my 03 Liberty in August and have taken it in several times for this problem. Still no solutions. I also drove a co-worker's Liberty, and it does the same as mine. I was hoping the recall on the ball joints would correct (obviously, I know nothing about cars). Has anyone filed a complaint with DC? How do you go about doing this? I enjoy this vehicle, but I hate driving on the interstate because I am constantly steering to the left so that I do not run off of the road. Any advice?

stacpa

I have a 5 month old 2003 Liberty and and in the past few weeks there is a whining sound when I turn the steering wheel either when the car is at a standstill or making a turn. It also raises and lowers it's pitch/volume when I accelerate or decelerate. It does it more on cold mornings though it can and will do it at anytime of the day/night. rather loud sometimes. Any ideas what this could be? Thanks for you responses...

xbomber

Thanks for the pump suggestion on the tranny. I'm guessing it's probably the cause. After researching the TSB's on the Liberty there's one that explains the symptom and fixing it with a new pump and reprogramming the trans. Now I just have to get the dealer to do it.

For your HVAC fan; I've know that to happen on other Chrysler vehicles when snow gets sucked or blown into the bottom of the fan motor housing, melts, then freezes. The ice will seize the motor until it melts or breaks loose.

It sound like you have all the recall details. If you think you have a ball joint problem and your Jeep is in the recall group, take it in for inspection without a recall notice. The dealer would be crazy to refuse to perform the recall service on this. If your still under warranty, it should be easy to get in without any risk to your wallet.

jayrider

link to the magnet site. The theory behind the application seems sound but the claims seem a bit infomercialistic. Makes me a bit suspicious. Did you click on the Roo?
Either Denny's or Waffle House sounds good to me as long as they serve Canadian cheese on their omelets.

suvshopper4

"infomercialistic"
I like it.

caribou1

Babbit lining (on connecting rods and crankshaft)is where you endanger your engine with the very small particles. To create erosion, you need to trap hard particles in a softer material. Think of a diamond saw. But if your filter has been changed several times, chances are that the harm has already been done. In principle we should change filters only when their backpressure gets too high or the acidity of the oil is wrong. The threat or particulate challenge on a filter works in the opposite way of our thinking. Given a backpressure, the more material there is against the filter wall, the better the trapping of oncoming particles.

jayrider

I think Ronco. And when I think Ronco, I think set it and forget it rotisserie chicken. I'm not particularly adept at surfing the web but maybe someone could find out if a device exists whereby you can cook a chicken or pot roast by strapping the entree of choice to an accessable hot spot on the car and taking a road trip of specified duration. You could attach yours to your rear rotors Renegaded, but the rest of us would probably have to wire dinner somewhere around the exhaust or manifold.
A 50 lb magnet on the oil pan might hold some promise if you don't mind using two hands to pull out the dipstick.

stever

Try duct (or duck, if you prefer) tape first:

Gadgets Put To The Test (KIRO)

Steve, Host

caribou1

I checked european specs about oil filtration of recent Liberty diesel engines:
-the break-in filter for the first 12,500 miles is rated less than 10 microns.
-standard filters are rated less than 16 microns.
This is what I read in my user's manual for the 2.8L CRD, and is common to other manufacturers.
Magnetic particle trapping is thus irrelevant here. There is a similar north-american approach at:
http://www.americansyntheticoil.com/synthetic-oil-sd-filter.htm
Today I have ~7500 miles on my KJ. The oil level is still max. and is as clear as coffee. There is nothing to compare with previous diesels.

chez63

I have a 2002 Liberty Sport. It has 25,000 miles, and has just been one headache after another. Thank goodness this is a lease because if I was stuck with this I would be very upset. When the car had 12,000 miles there was a problem with a broken lifter spring. Then they had to adjust something with the computer. Then it was diagnoses as a bad fuel pump the car spent 20 days in the shop, 1 day short of the lemon law requirement. The dealer kept telling trying to get the okay from DC to take it apart but they just kept dragging their feet, saying they wanted to document everything they were doing. Sorry but I did not know I was buying a $25,000 science experiment. When I got it back it has been running rough every since. At 17,000 miles I started to get a whining from the front end when traveling at 30 mph or faster. The car like others does pull to the right. At 19,000 miles the steering started to make squealing noises, when brought in, they dealer said the power steering fluid was low, but could not find a leak!! To this day it still makes some bad sounds. Well, 12 more months on this clunker lease and I am done with Jeeps. I have had Grand Cherokees, and the old Cherokee both were solid, but the way DC dealt with this has soured me forever. If buying look elsewhere.

caribou1

DC has a written commitment in France to either get you going again with your own vehicle within ~3 hours, or pay a ***hotel for 3 days during repair, or a replacement vehicle of the same category, or the plane ticket to bring you back home including your passengers. This is for a two years period, or 50,000 miles. They will even replace your flat tire (too heavy for most ladies). This applies when you call DC directly. It may have a different flavour if you have to beg for repair by your local dealer...

spdmtr5

Wow!Next DC product I buy;I'm flying to France to get it.By the way,how many vehicles does MB sell in France?

stever

Glad you liked the link - I swiped it from another Town Hall poster yesterday (and already have forgotten who to give credit to).

Got an Xbox? (actually the Liberty game option is going to be available to play online this month).

Steve, Host

jayrider

clarification/discussion.
1. On page 209 of my manual, there are recommendations for using mid-grade gas---89 octane in hot weather, towing, hard acceleration, hills, and low humidity. Has anyone tried 89 octane and found it improved driveability or MPG?
2. How do you determine whether ball joints need replacing? Do they put the vehicle up on the lift and shake the hell out of the wheel listening for noise or excessive play?

jayrider

Enter moog ball joints on Google. Click on the first site and see who else has big problems.

caribou1

The french automobile club
http://w2.automobileclub.org/news/index_essai.php?code=56
claims the sales of the Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD automatic were foreseen at 1000 units and 700 were sold in 2002. Apparently we are getting the diesel KJs built in the new assembly plant where quality control has been improved. I confirm excellent QA, no rattle-squeak nor wind noise. But the diesel sounds quieter outside than inside...

spdmtr5

I guess my question was how the French feel about buying the 3 pointed star.Many in the USA have an adversion to buying "foreign" stuff-even though most vehicles these days have parts from all over the world.

caribou1

You would be surprised.
Many say they bought a car; an american car. Apart from the Jet-Set, this means they bought something good and different associated to a stereotype. When an american product is good and fulfills the demand, it sells like hotcakes. You must also know that there are many lemons out here that people are not proud to talk about. If you look for a Renault or Peugeot, buy it outside the country... Another funny thing about the KJ is that my insurance company gave me a huge rebate: they claim people who buy these trucks have fewer accidents! Let's see...

caribou1

They walk in the shade with sunbathing goods and umbrellas instead of ...

caribou1

In the last 20 years, most of Bosch gasoline fuel injectors were made by the french bar-turning industry. The early ABS systems (Teves Belgium) were also sub-contracted here. Bendix brake pistons as well. An italian firm (Recaro) makes most of our seats, another one near Milano make the seat-belt mechanisms that never rewind and damage the door panels. Traditional industry is specialised geographically to bring down costs of raw materials and expertise.

caribou1

This make is as common as GM for you. They have a solid reputation and are leaders in the 'clean' motors trend of today. Most of their sedans have the Common Rail Diesels, and it's quite common to catch a MB taxi with 300,000 miles on the speedo.

spdmtr5

Thanks for the info.We see older Mercedes diesels here and for the most part they are real smokers.It may be from the lower quality fuel offered here.I'm looking forward to a Liberty diesel drive.

caribou1

I checked our local specs about diesel fuel:
-we have no premium diesel
-cetane is just below 50%
-it freezes around -25 Celcius (paraffin wax)
The difference with heating oil (taxes) is due to a color additive that leaves a trace in the filter. There can be more paraffin in the cheaper heating oil. For info, we change diesel fuel filters every 30,000 miles and drain eventual water during normal service intervals. There is very little sevice required (~120 USD every 10,000 miles). Glow plugs last about 60,000 miles in cold areas and are changed with the timing belt making the total bill around 300 USD. This is the budget for running a TDI-HDI-D4D type of engine here. The small diesel engines are cheaper and more reliable on the long run from experience.

spdmtr5

In the literature I read I have gotten the impression that American diesel is not as highly refined as that found in Europe.I've never owned a diesel but my eyeball opinion is that older diesel motors have given rise to the statement that they"sound funny and smell bad."

jayrider

I was chatting with the service writer at my dealer while having my oil changed and the discussion lead to computers. He said that the new tire pressure monitors on the 04 Liberty is keeping them real busy with problems. They weren't available on the 03's. Sometimes you get lucky with less.
Does anyone have any experience with the pressure monitors that replace the valve stem covers? You set them to a particular pressure and the color changes in the tip if it drops too low.

elmoblatch1

I am taking my Liberty in for an oil change & tire rotation tomorrow. Any recalls, service bulletins, etc. that I should know about & bring to the dealer's attention ?

stevenjh

My first post to the board, I searched for threads on this ABS component, but didn't find anything. I have an 04 Liberty with 797 miles on it. A few evenings back I was leaving work and both the ABS and Brake lights lit on the dash, Dealer Service says the CAB control failed and needs replacing. Can anyone shed any light on this component?

div2

CAB = Controller Antilock Brake. This is the brain of the ABS system that monitors the wheel sensors and the vehicle speed etc. and tells the Hydraulic Control Unit(HCU) what to do. It also logs fault codes if it sees a problem. Your CAB failure is known as an "infant mortality" in the industry, meaning that the component failed at a very early point in its service life. The good news is that if a solid state components does not fail early it will almost certainly have a normal service life. I know it's aggravating to have something fail on a brand new car, but it can happen with any new car you buy-from Lexus to Ferrari. Especially Ferrari.

jayrider

then something is wrong. Forgive me for stating the obvious but my 03 tracks straight and true. If I take my hands off the wheel while braking to a stop, it doesn't wander a bit. Solid and straight. If it develops a pull in the future then something will have to happen that has to be fixable. I would take it to several dealers and if that didn't get it right, take it to an independent alignment/suspension specialist and pay for a diagnosis. If they find the problem you can take it to the dealer to repair with the work order. What would they do in that case? Could you go to small claims court to recoup any expenses that you incurred because they couldn't or wouldn't fix a problem that you documented? I guess this could all be resolved if the ball joint fix cures the problem but that seems too simple. Maybe not.

caribou1

I've tried several times to measure the difference between 95 and 98. It always came out close to even apart from the occasional 'knocking' of a higher compression engine. On small engines between 1.6 and 3.0 Liters equipped with Bosch injection, there used to be an octane selection jumper. If it was set to 95, you could burn 98. The inverse made it feel a bit softer. Where you can feel a difference is between two filling stations: when gas was leaded, lead helped to keep a homogenious octane mixture but it's no longer the case.

tutonic

Well here you have it.
I met with a DC Rep and was handed a service notice stating that 2003 and some 2004 were to have their rear brake pads, discs, calipers and brake fluid changed because of a clearance problem in temperatures of 50 degrees or lower. The Brake Moan...
Let us hope this works.

spdmtr5

Do you happen to know the service bulletin number?Thanks in advance;our 04,produced in Sept.has only 1500 miles on it and so far I hear no brake moan.

renegader

After seven happy years with German VW/AUDI TDI diesel engines I have now 21 months experience with Liberty diesel : The engine is every time in your ears - as you drive some tractor. Winter starts are terrible, it smokes white some seconds and smells. Now, the second winter, is double starting sometimes necessary. Dealership says it is normal... I have compared an KIA Sorrento, where is probably the same engine (Detroit diesel made by VM motori Italy) but in KIA is the diesel noise much better damped, it sounds inside the car like a gasoline machine. From the summer there are growing problems with oil leakage from turbocharger. Liberty was not born for this diesel...

jayrider

of 89 octane gas. I can buy it for the same price as 87 so there is no cost penalty. I don't see or expect any improvement in MPG but am trying to be sensitive to any subtle changes in engine noise and response. I still remember how fast I could run and how high I could jump when I ran around the block in 1956 with those new sneakers so I'm giving it more time.
Renegader-- I wish I could speak Czech as well as you do with english. " The engine is every time in your ears..." couldn't have described your experience with the Liberty diesel any better. Renegaded might suggest turning up the volumn on your radio as a better solution than complaining to the dealer.

tutonic

FYI

Service notice number is 05-001-04 Date January 13 2004. This supersedes 05-003-03 issued August 15 2003.

Hopefully my brakes will be replaced next week so I'll keep you all informed.

caribou1

I got rid of a Citroen HDI 110 HP (common rail diesel) to buy the Liberty Sport 2.8 L CRD. The PSA (Peugeot-Citroen group) engine after more than one year also needed double heating of the glow plugs when the temperature went below freezepoint. I think this is imposed by absence of the precombustion chamber and fatigue of the plugs. As of the Jeep, I confirm that the sound of this engine is omnipresent when you drive in the city. In offroad conditions, it 'talks' to me.
The difference with the KIA is the residual value in a market where KIA is not established. I test drove the Sorento 2.5 diesel, and found it had no punch at low RPM.

renegader

What do you say to the "quietly" lowered Liberty? My Liberty (produced April 2002) had the front clearance only 157 mm (6,2 inches) instead of declared 217 mm (8,6 inches). I missed the space by going offroad, so I ordered the suspension lift. Now I have "the right Liberty" and must say with absolutely NO stability problems.
Do anybody have an "not lowered Liberty"? Or do anybody know when started the lowering? There must be vehicles from the production beginning, which are not so low...

caribou1

In France the clearance is quoted 231 mm (~9.1 inches). I just measured the height from ground to the bottom lip of the driver door: mine sits at 430 mm off the ground (~17 inches). I need 1.9 Meters vertical clearance in public parkings (6ft-3in). As of the white smoke on the cold engine, I think this is water vapour. Even the Volvo makes white smoke for a little while. I was never able to produce a large cloud of dust particles while pushing the warm engine which is new to me. I've had several cold starts around -8 Celcius and it showed no smell of unburned diesel yet. It has 13000 Km, no oil consumption, and a rattling waste gate at 2100 RPM which corresponds to 70 MPH. This will be annoying for North America, but can be fixed.

spdmtr5

Thanks for the service notice number.Keep us informed.To all;have you seen pictures of the concept"Liberator" built by DCs Skunk Works special vehicle unit? I think it's quite a unit and shows what can be done with the Liberty.

renegader

I had in mind the lowest ground clearance, which is by Liberty under the front differential (or front skidplate, if you had one).
Liberty was lowered by shortening of all springs from 216 to 157 mm (6,2 to 8,6 inch) under the front differential. The reason for it was an accident by so-called elk test in (I think)Germany. I have some photos from there. Chrysler wanted to reach more stability by bringing down center of gravity.
The dealership did not say anything and in the advertising leaflets was untrue.
The low clearance made me problems in off roads for a while, till I lifted it again. Now its much better and I feel no affecting the stability. I like it offroad and it looks great.
Your 231 mm (9,1 in)seems to be measured under the transmission skidplate, which is very unusual.

caribou1

In principle, ground clearance is measured with a horizontal gauge that fits between the wheels, and is shaped like a box. You can easely correlate standards using the height of the bottom lip of the door, assuming the truck sits in a horizontal position.

jayrider

Going in for first oil change on tuesday and dealer will check ball joints and replace if defective. He said a heat shield is installed no matter what.

sandhog2

had one of the lowered liberty's problem was after 6 to 8000 km. they start to bottom out.the local dealer wasn't much help had to go over their head right to chrysler that pissed them.replaced springs and shocks front and rear.6 months later same trouble? mileage sucks 16/17 hwy if you take it easy 55/60 mph. worst vehicle I ever owned. got balljoint recall 2nd week jan.

caribou1

It's hood has two vents near the windshield that sit above the large plastic cover of the motor where no air is circulated; what are they intended for?

caribou1

I found part of the answer here:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/gas_qanda/api_octane.shtml
The gasoline delivered in one area depends on average values of local temperature, altitude and humidity. In the US this is regulated by the American National Standards Institute code: ASTM D4814.
The same approach applies here, perhaps with the name of a pretty flower ??
 I once had engine knocking problems with gas purchased in the UK. It was rated in **** (stars).

spdmtr5

They may be to escape hot air from the engine compartment or only a cosmetic touch.Either way I think it's a nice treatment.

jayrider

Sorry to hear about your suspension melt down. What year is your Liberty? When was it built? Check the tag on the driverside front door. It's the series of numbers under the bar code on the left bottom of the tag following MDH. The numbers at the top of the tag give the month and year.
I'm going on a vacation soon to New Orleans and the Mississippi gulf coast and will post my mpg for the trip.

spdmtr5

We traded an 02 Trailblazer on our liberty because of many problems.All brands have their glitches and it seems the TB,Envoy bunch are having many more problems than the Liberty board.My 98 Dodge PU has been excellent.Your knowledge is a great addition to this board and I hope you will continue to give your input.