I measured my front differential clearance, and it is lower than quoted in the specification. It's about 180mm, so is the rear differential that cannot be higher unless you change the tire size. I think Jeep played a trick on us.
today. Had an oil and filter change, new ball joints, heat shields and the free 17 point safety check [it passed}. I took about an 75 minutes for everything. Wonder what the flat rate is for all that service? I asked what they did with the defective ones, and the service writer said they sent them all to some dealer in Ontario, Canada.
a recall notice. When I arranged for the oil change, I asked if they would check them out. The service writer entered my vin # and went from there. I didn't know they were being swapped until I saw the service slip. When I asked if they were bad, he said the mechanic looked for heat damage and went from there. I figure this dealership makes out nicely by replacing them assembly line style and does very little inspecting. Haul your piece of **** down to S.W. Illinois and I'm sure they'll take care of everything quick and easy. And as an added incentive, I've got coupons for Denny's.
Over here refineries have their own recepies for additives. I think a nationwide refinery like Petro-Canada delivers equal quality fuels. Winter conditions also change diesel mileage. I am getting 11.6 liters/100 Km now instead of 10.3 in the summer. It's 2L/100Km more than the Jeep spec. Winter driving conditions here are almost the same as in Montreal region.
I'm new to the forums and am thinking about a Liberty. Look through grand cherokee forums and know the problems, probably wouldn't buy one now b/c of that. My questions lie now with the liberty. Is it possible that the liberty is going to (or already is for that matter) follow in the footsteps of the JGC? My question(s) is/are any problems worth noting, major or minor that would steer me away from buying one; besides the gas mileage that any SUV gets. I am concerned now that if i would buy one the service bay guys would no my intimate experiences buy the time I sell my vehicle. So, advice, pointers problems . . . whatever, feed it this way, thanks for the help
With 180 mm front differential clearance you are one of those lucky guys, who became the Liberty unchanged so as it was planned. You can make another control: The front half-shafts (halfaxles)should go out from the differential nice directly, parallel to the ground. Shafts of newer vehicles ("modified to increase the stability") are going slightly up from the diff to the wheels as " V ". These vehicles have the front clearance 157 mm. I´d like to know: When started it. I founded vehicles build even in Nov. 2001 and they was low too. You are right, Jeep played a bad trick on us.
From what I read in the Liberty posts, I presume the new factory building the 2.8L CRD automatic has different quality standards than on the local market. Everything works fine on my truck, even cold starts at -14C like this morning. My front half shafts are horizontal, I get no dust inside, brake moaning stopped recently (perhaps because I use the hand brake quite a lot). The new stock tires (Wrangler S4) are performing quite well even on black ice, so is the ABS if you don't forget to shift into neutral going down an icy road. My only 'worry' is the rattle of the waste gate at 2100 RPM. If I can't have it fixed during the warranty, I will repair it myself unless I get the new variable pitch turbocompressor.
Well, I have had 5 sets of brake pads now (including the QUIET brake pad)...and the rotors were replaced per the TSB last week and the noise is back. I called the Service MGR this morning and said I was ready to have a "Bon-fire"..he laughed and said maybe that was a good idea. This is the ONLY problem I have with my Liberty but a major one....I sell real estate and it's embarassing to back out of a driveway with clients in your Jeep and have it MOAN forever.....
Take your money and run as far away from DC as you can get. Liberties are JUNK. I'm selling a 2003 that has been to the shop every week since I bought it. front end problems, brake problems, ball joint broke front end collapsed. Run for you life.
Is the brake moaning common to disk and drum brakes? I have the 4 disks version, and noticed the moan used to change by pulling the hand brake. The hand brake is a small drum brake located inside the hub of the disk; it is not a dual mechanism pinching the disk pads. If the brake moaning is common to both types of rear axel, then I would look for a resonnating mechanical element that is common to both (typically in the differencial).
les01 is absolutely right.If you are searching some full time hobby, want to meet a lot of "good" DC people and do like solving problems, then buy Liberty! Best you can do: Read www-odi.nthsa.dot.gov, "recalls", Liberty, and when 336.000 potential n. of units affected with loss of lubrication of lower control arms (could result in a crash) doesn satisfy you, so nobody else can do. Run for your life .
I´m just waiting for that recall... Thanks les01 for nthsa web!!!
So, I just am not going to buy any jeeps until i hear years down the road they fix multiple problems. My only assumption now is that they stay afloat b/c "looks sell" and they are fortunate enough to have a large following. Thanks for the advice and making i don't waste my money
well, I have 4 wheel disc brakes and NO ABS.....I have tired using the parking brake off and on and that didn't change anything. It makes me so mad because after 15 months this is the only problem I have had other than my power seat motor malfunctioning ont he drivers side.
I was thinking of a sticky locking differential, as in the old days of the Norton Manx when we had to unstick the wet clutch before starting the engine. Do you remember that ? The moaning on my Jeep always occured while being in a curve, and the differential has a wet clutch for locking.
Unstick the clutch,hope you had it in the right position on the compression stroke or kickback city!Our Liberty is doing great;so says my wife.She,for a lady,is a pretty good gearhead and much prefers the Liberty to the Trailblazer.
Could someone try to put the truck's rear end on a jack and spin the rear wheels free when they're cold (next morning)? This method could incriminate the brakes, leaving the Trac-Loc out of the game (assuming in 2WD, and manual check against brake seizure).
My (2,5 L Diesel) Liberty was produced in April 2002. It has rear drums and as I know, rear discs started on Model 2003 with 2,8 L (on diesels).
I also have ABS, but only 3-channel. The rear blocking sensor is in rear differential and deliver impulses for board computer too (I know it because it failed once).
Trac-lok is also there, and I remember having problems with MOANING in sharp curves. It was really from the clutches in diff and the dealership solved it with adding MOPAR friction modifier. Unfortunately, with moaning disappeared the locking effect (today I would prefer stay moaning and locking). I tried to get locking back with changing oils, (synthetic too) but it never happened.
Dealerships have various explanations to the adding of modifier, but in Austria they told me, there is no modifier added in production. It is added by the first inspection (some 12.000 miles) and the volume can be varied under the country or state conditions (average temperature, humidity of air, snow and so on). Too much can affect the locking effect - also be carefull! More isn´t allways better.
Bingo (maybe) renegaded, and thanks to caribou1 for a lot of ideas.
Have you tried reving the engine and shifting gears with the transfer case set into neutral? If this makes you nervous, it will take you 10 minutes to disconnect the two drive shafts (8 bolts). There is a vibration absorber fixed on the right hand side of my rear transmission; do you also have one? I don't know if it's for tuning the diesel alone or just the transmission? People who do maintenance on ventilation systems and cooling towers use portable accelerometers (vibration amplitude + frequency). If you put the truck on a lift and do dynamic measurements in several places you will be able to locate your problem rapidly.
Maybe I was not clear enough last time: After some 12.000 miles (one year) in 2. summer came that diff moaning (every time by dead start especially on crossing, with front wheels turned sharp left or right. DC said, it was eliminated by adding that Mopar friction modifier. Then no moaning more, but no locking too. 1)Can you explain the real effect of friction modifier? (in- or decreasing of locking) 2)What can be done for increasing of locking now (wash out and refill?) 3)How should I measure the locking effect 4)What is normal locking according DC?
Now we measured some 90 Nm, I can turn one lifted rear wheel by one hand, while the other stays on ground. That is few or..?
"les01 is absolutely right.If you are searching some full time hobby, want to meet a lot of "good" DC people and do like solving problems, then buy Liberty! Best you can do: Read www-odi.nthsa.dot.gov, "recalls", Liberty, and when 336.000 potential n. of units affected with loss of lubrication of lower control arms (could result in a crash) doesn satisfy you, so nobody else can do. Run for your life ."
Completely untrue. In fact the Liberty has had fewer recalls than the Honda CRV and one third the recalls the Escape has had. I personally own one and have had nothing great things to say about it. The dealership I work for has not had one problem in the service area regarding them. The ball joint recall is the only one. Just because you have had a bad experience doesn't mean that everybody else does.
I´m sorry, the website does exist and everybody can find the data. There is one letter in "documents" from 5.10.2003, written by Mr. Speth, Director Vehicle Compliance and safety Affairs DC to NHTSA Enclosure: "Recall #C38" and this letter from I took the number of units 332,400 .
Further information for all:
The involved vehicle identification number range is:
LOW/HIGH: 2W100268/2W368517, 3W500001/3W682294
(Data also from DC letter)
When you work for Jeep dealership, so be kind and help us with any advice. We will love you!
Results : 3 | All records displayed Make : JEEP Model : LIBERTY Year : 2002 NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 01V311000 Recall Date : OCT 01, 2001 Component: OTHER Potential Number Of Units Affected : 72000
Check to Request Research. Submit below. Get Summary
Make : JEEP Model : LIBERTY Year : 2002 NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 01V373000 Recall Date : DEC 05, 2001 Component: AIR BAGS:FRONTAL Potential Number Of Units Affected : 102000
Check to Request Research. Submit below. Get Summary
Make : JEEP Model : LIBERTY Year : 2002 NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 03V460000 Recall Date : NOV 04, 2003 Component: SUSPENSION:FRONT:CONTROL ARM:LOWER BALL JOINT Potential Number Of Units Affected : 336000
By pressing the clutch or going into neutral, as long as the engine goes to idle speed, you relax the front ball bearing on the input shaft of your gearbox. This is a frequent source of trouble, especially when the clutch is out of balance / center. A sticky clutch disk on it's splined shaft could also lead to premature wear. Also check for excessive clutch lining dust on this shaft. Engine oil treatment has nothing to do with the transmission bearings and could have been a pure coincidence in your case.
Just wondering if anyone out there finds the standard liberty drivers seat extremely uncomfortable? After driving for several days in the Liberty, I can't take the lower back and leg pain anymore. Too bad I couldn't tell this from the test drive. I can't wait to sell this thing.
With nearly 40,000 miles on my 2002 Limited, I've finally decided to bite the bullet and get rid of the stock "Good for a Years". I've searched the message database and could only find mention of BF Goodrich all-terrains as a nice replacement.
Any suggestions on whether BF Goodrich tires are all right? Any other brands you'd recommend?
How much should I expect to pay for 4 new tires? Also, does the spare need to be replaced, or is it all right for emergency purposes?
I'm sorry to hear about your discomfort. Have you considered aftermarket seats or some kind of seat covers/cushions? Perhaps someone here has experience with them?
I appreciate your quick response to the tire issue. I've got take the Liberty in to the dealership tomorrow morning for yet another round of repairs (mysteriously low coolant fluid and power steering fluid, despite meticulous maintenance at every interval) and to hopefully get the ball joint recall work performed (although I've yet to receive the notice from DC) and was hoping to get some opinions on the tires beforehand.
As far as tolerating another set of "Good-for-a-Year's", I don't think so. Ever since I bought the truck brand new in January 2002 I've had squeaking, slippery tires, despite proper rotation, inflation, etc. It just isn't worth it.
Just bought a Jeep liberty 3.7L V6 in late November. Thus far I am spending around $50 weekly in gas and getting between 10-12mpg. I also find that when I go through a puddle the water is splashed directly onto the windscreen obscuring my view of the road. Also, the handling in bad weather is worse, even in 4WD than my Jaguar. Are my findings consistent with everyone elses?
All friction additives like the STP oil treatment have to be dissolved either using trichlorethilene vapour or BIOSANE which is a vegetal product or mechanically abraded. If you don't remove and dismantle your clutch pack, you can severely damage all your oils seals (liprings) by doing a simple 'bath' treatment. You may even come across people who will tell you to do a chemical etching to get rid of it. To evaluate the torque you need, just assume you have 500 Kilograms per wheel: you don't want to peel your tires on dry roads (friction coeff.=0.3) and you accept the spin on a wet road (coeff.=~0.1). Just in the middle you get (~0.2* 500)= a force of 100 Kg*. From this you can easely extract the torque depending on tire size.
If you suspect a head gasket leak, open the oil filler plug of the motor when it runs and put your hand above it. You should feel practically nothing on a good engine (it displaces a fixed volume of air inside), and when the gasket is going or gone, your hand will be pushed away as well as the cooling liquid from it's circuit. You really do have a lemon!
Providing that caribous quick test shows not otherwise, you probably need not to be worried.
I have had that yellow creme inside filler neck on some my gasoline cars before - it is only air humidity absorbed by oil. Your oil simply did his job full 20.000 km.
According grey/brown munge in the coolant overflow bottle - I have it there too for long time, but test (in independent service) was O.K.
I have the same experience, but it seems be O.K. The fan clutch should be automatically initiated with rising temperature. Try turn the fan by hand by cooled engine - it should go free without moving the belt.
Best thing I ever did for my jeep, both performance and looks. Very good in the snow! They spin, and dig until the hit something then off you go!!!!! I love them.
I just found this site tonight- I have an 03 Liberty Sport (5,000 miles) and have noticed, like others, it seems, that it pulls to the right...
For those of you who have taken your jeep in with this problem already, what did the dealer say? Mine went to a dealer a month ago for tire rotation and oil change and they found nothing wrong to explain the pull. I don't believe them. I just made my appointment for the recall at a different dealer, and am wondering what to expect...
From the day I used synthetic oil, I no-longer had this problem. A possible cause could be the gasket of the filling cap or the oil sniffer tube. On a well sealed oil sump (motorcycle) this never occurs.
Today I asked another independent car repair service and they say: Yes, the yellow cream occures especially in winter or rainy periodes on some engines, especially without or bad rubber gasket !agrees with caribou1! But the browned coolant is NOT usual!!! I remember it was clear by new. Did you have any reason for coolant change in the past? (I did, my Jeep has the aftermarket independent heater so I can assume the unmatched refilling).
We measured the real torque delivered trough diff on rear wheel. It is only 100 Nm. Dealership gave a written statement and declared 90 - 200 Nm to be normal (and they will do nothing for me, like usual). But with one wheel on snow and other on the pavement I feel no effect. By new car I heard "click" and it took me out. Will try overdose.
You are picking up (iron) oxyde somewhere in the circuit. Get a corrosion inhibiter first, flush the circuit then refill with a coolant that has it already premixed. This problem was understood 25 years ago.
Inspired by Nr.1114 from you, we tried "vibrations" on my Lib 2,5 CRD with manual. The result is a bit different, but it has something common:
Common features: Vibration appears 1) about 2000 rpm 2) speed 50-60 mph (80-95 km/h) 3) only under acceleration, they disappear when clutched or neutral shifted or decelerated with the engine. The lower acceleration, the lower vibs.
Other features: Vibs are by far most powerful (really earthshaking) in 5th gear and only with shifted 4x4. Above 100 km/h they disappear. The lower gear, the less vibs. In 2WD no unacceptable vibs at all.
And what said DC? Importer said "the problem with vibrations exists only on two vehicles of all we sold. These two are fitted with independent heater. The vibration is caused by incompetent installation of the aftermarket independent heater (Eberspaecher), whose exhaust pipe resonates with drivetrain" (imagine 200g shaking 2 tons of Lib) and prescribed removal of heater under loss of vehicle guarantee. I did not - they really took me the guarantee away for the drivetrain.
Gag 1: The heater was mounted by DC dealership before I purchased Lib.
Gag 2: I have found another 2.5 CRD, produced half year sooner but less driven, without any heater and it vibrates identically.
Caribou1, can you compare vibs 4x4 and 4x2 on yours?
I have read that the Liberty has a long break-in period for it to be a bit more fuel efficient. But has anyone had the problem of filling the tank and it not showing a true full tank? Mine is a bit above the 3/4 mark. But not at Full. And when I have driven only 150 miles I am at the 1/4 mark. The dealership gave an excuse of the gas guzzling and the break-in period. Are they trying to screw me?
41 NewtonMeter is the value you would use on a 1/4" soft steel bolt, or spark plug in an aluminium head. If you have time, Canadian Tire stores have a range of torque wrenches that can give you a hint. Look at the range of settings on the ones with the 3/4" square. The 1/4" model is for the lawn mower. In an earlier post I said 100 Kg force would be an average setting, "off the nose". My tire center is 34.5cm, so I would expect a clutch pack torque close to 35~daNM (KG*M)
I don't get a clear understanding of your problem. In my case, especially with the automatic, in 4x4 permanent mode I believe transmission oscillations originate from the transfer case differential being fully operational. This behaviour is not bad enough to become a syndrom, because it's normal tension+relax+tension transitions of the drive shafts.
Renegaged, I put in 13 gallons. I filled her up and even topped off a little. So I figured the needle would point to "F" but it is a bit off the 3/4 mark. Which is what is troubling me.
I will test out your trouble shoot. If it is still like that I guess I will tell the dealer to check the sender unit.
I'm thinking of 3 possible causes: On a production line, when the symptom is recurrent, one could imagine a problem of misalignment of the front to rear axels by: 1- Jigs 2- Out of tolerance suspension locating holes/pins in the body of the Jeep 3- Defective lot in the procurement of suspension parts
My first approach to understand this would be: 1- Measure with a thin nylon cord on the right and left sides of the vehicle the lateral alignment of the front to rear tires. Two people are needed to do this, one assures tension and visual contact at the rear wheel, the other checks that the front tire is at a given distance of the cord. This can also be done with a mason's ruler. 2- Compare with the other side. The "pinch" (in french) between the front wheels can now be evaluated (~3mm). 3- If there is a true misalignment between the axels, it will not be possible to have a symmetric difference. 4- Check that the vehicle sits horizontally.
In France, unleaded fuel is 'recent'. I asked a senior chemist : - why do I feel headpain when I come close to a gasoline vessel, or sometimes just sitting inside a car? (the same applies for motorcycles) His first answer was quite short: the additives. - I reacted saying it was the case even when there were no leaks.
Then came this bit: The newer gasoline additives start evaporating at low temperatures and their molecular chains are such that they continuously migrate through the walls of cheap fuel hose material and this causes the gasoline smell in cars. Vapours collect in the engine compartment and penetrate the same way in the ventilation systems because no particular attention is given to the extra cost of chemically adapted moulding materials.
A simple test : open your hood, grab the fuel hose and then smell your hand. There will be a trace of smell in many cases. From this point of vue, considering the fuel gauge I think that a wrong choice of material exposed in the gas tank could lead to chemical agression then stress corrosion and early malfunction. It could also simply be cheap quality. I just hope DaimlerChrysler has not hired this world famous european buyer that killed both Volkwagen and Opel reputations a few years ago. These two companies have not yet fully recovered, but the Japaneese are doing very well. Welcome to Europe.
But it won't help you a bit. The dealership had the Liberty for two full days (thankfully they gave me a free loaner--I have the extended warranty) and "couldn't find any reason why the coolant fluid became mysteriously low or why the power steering fluid became mysteriously low." So they refilled them both, performed the other work I had requested and sent me on my way.
I've had a great relationship with this dealership (and my service manager, in particular) for over five years now. I'm disappointed that they can't find anything, but I also feel like they are being honest that they tried their best. Having said that, however, I'm not going to relax. I don't think two different fluids just "disappear" coincidentally and for no reason. Perhaps we'll hear from some other folks about any similar issues.
Hope you get your "munge" problem figured out. By the way, I looked and mine doesn't have any munge.
Comments
Haul your piece of **** down to S.W. Illinois and I'm sure they'll take care of everything quick and easy. And as an added incentive, I've got coupons for Denny's.
I ma finding that gas mileage is better when I buy from the local Citgo convenience store.
Winter conditions also change diesel mileage. I am getting 11.6 liters/100 Km now instead of 10.3 in the summer. It's 2L/100Km more than the Jeep spec. Winter driving conditions here are almost the same as in Montreal region.
My question(s) is/are any problems worth noting, major or minor that would steer me away from buying one; besides the gas mileage that any SUV gets. I am concerned now that if i would buy one the service bay guys would no my intimate experiences buy the time I sell my vehicle. So, advice, pointers problems . . . whatever, feed it this way, thanks for the help
You can make another control: The front half-shafts (halfaxles)should go out from the differential nice directly, parallel to the ground.
Shafts of newer vehicles ("modified to increase the stability") are going slightly up from the diff to the wheels as " V ". These vehicles have the front clearance 157 mm. I´d like to know: When started it. I founded vehicles build even in Nov. 2001 and they was low too.
You are right, Jeep played a bad trick on us.
Best you can do:
Read www-odi.nthsa.dot.gov, "recalls", Liberty, and when 336.000 potential n. of units affected with loss of lubrication of lower control arms (could result in a crash) doesn satisfy you, so nobody else can do. Run for your life .
I´m just waiting for that recall... Thanks les01 for nthsa web!!!
Glad I found this site to share info with other Jeep owners.
Thanks to all who participate !
I also have ABS, but only 3-channel. The rear blocking sensor is in rear differential and deliver impulses for board computer too (I know it because it failed once).
Trac-lok is also there, and I remember having problems with MOANING in sharp curves. It was really from the clutches in diff and the dealership solved it with adding MOPAR friction modifier. Unfortunately, with moaning disappeared the locking effect (today I would prefer stay moaning and locking). I tried to get locking back with changing oils, (synthetic too) but it never happened.
Dealerships have various explanations to the adding of modifier, but in Austria they told me, there is no modifier added in production. It is added by the first inspection (some 12.000 miles) and the volume can be varied under the country or state conditions (average temperature, humidity of air, snow and so on). Too much can affect the locking effect - also be carefull! More isn´t allways better.
Bingo (maybe) renegaded, and thanks to caribou1 for a lot of ideas.
People who do maintenance on ventilation systems and cooling towers use portable accelerometers (vibration amplitude + frequency). If you put the truck on a lift and do dynamic measurements in several places you will be able to locate your problem rapidly.
1)Can you explain the real effect of friction modifier? (in- or decreasing of locking)
2)What can be done for increasing of locking now (wash out and refill?)
3)How should I measure the locking effect
4)What is normal locking according DC?
Now we measured some 90 Nm, I can turn one lifted rear wheel by one hand, while the other stays on ground. That is few or..?
Best you can do:
Read www-odi.nthsa.dot.gov, "recalls", Liberty, and when 336.000 potential n. of units affected with loss of lubrication of lower control arms (could result in a crash) doesn satisfy you, so nobody else can do. Run for your life ."
Completely untrue. In fact the Liberty has had fewer recalls than the Honda CRV and one third the recalls the Escape has had. I personally own one and have had nothing great things to say about it. The dealership I work for has not had one problem in the service area regarding them. The ball joint recall is the only one. Just because you have had a bad experience doesn't mean that everybody else does.
Enclosure: "Recall #C38" and this letter from I took the number of units 332,400 .
Further information for all:
The involved vehicle identification number range is:
LOW/HIGH: 2W100268/2W368517, 3W500001/3W682294
(Data also from DC letter)
When you work for Jeep dealership, so be kind and help us with any advice. We will love you!
Report Date : February 6, 2004 at 11:46 AM
TYPE : VEHICLE
YEAR : 2002
MAKE : JEEP
MODEL : LIBERTY
Results : 3 | All records displayed
Make : JEEP Model : LIBERTY Year : 2002
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 01V311000 Recall Date : OCT 01, 2001
Component: OTHER
Potential Number Of Units Affected : 72000
Check to Request Research. Submit below. Get Summary
Make : JEEP Model : LIBERTY Year : 2002
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 01V373000 Recall Date : DEC 05, 2001
Component: AIR BAGS:FRONTAL
Potential Number Of Units Affected : 102000
Check to Request Research. Submit below. Get Summary
Make : JEEP Model : LIBERTY Year : 2002
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 03V460000 Recall Date : NOV 04, 2003
Component: SUSPENSION:FRONT:CONTROL ARM:LOWER BALL JOINT
Potential Number Of Units Affected : 336000
Any suggestions on whether BF Goodrich tires are all right? Any other brands you'd recommend?
How much should I expect to pay for 4 new tires? Also, does the spare need to be replaced, or is it all right for emergency purposes?
tidester, host
As far as tolerating another set of "Good-for-a-Year's", I don't think so. Ever since I bought the truck brand new in January 2002 I've had squeaking, slippery tires, despite proper rotation, inflation, etc. It just isn't worth it.
To evaluate the torque you need, just assume you have 500 Kilograms per wheel: you don't want to peel your tires on dry roads (friction coeff.=0.3) and you accept the spin on a wet road (coeff.=~0.1). Just in the middle you get (~0.2* 500)= a force of 100 Kg*. From this you can easely extract the torque depending on tire size.
I have had that yellow creme inside filler neck on some my gasoline cars before - it is only air humidity absorbed by oil. Your oil simply did his job full 20.000 km.
According grey/brown munge in the coolant overflow bottle - I have it there too for long time, but test (in independent service) was O.K.
For those of you who have taken your jeep in with this problem already, what did the dealer say? Mine went to a dealer a month ago for tire rotation and oil change and they found nothing wrong to explain the pull. I don't believe them. I just made my appointment for the recall at a different dealer, and am wondering what to expect...
Great to find the site!
Yes, the yellow cream occures especially in winter or rainy periodes on some engines, especially without or bad rubber gasket !agrees with caribou1!
But the browned coolant is NOT usual!!! I remember it was clear by new. Did you have any reason for coolant change in the past? (I did, my Jeep has the aftermarket independent heater so I can assume the unmatched refilling).
Common features:
Vibration appears
1) about 2000 rpm
2) speed 50-60 mph (80-95 km/h)
3) only under acceleration, they disappear when clutched or neutral shifted or decelerated with the engine. The lower acceleration, the lower vibs.
Other features:
Vibs are by far most powerful (really earthshaking) in 5th gear and only with shifted 4x4. Above 100 km/h they disappear.
The lower gear, the less vibs.
In 2WD no unacceptable vibs at all.
And what said DC?
Importer said "the problem with vibrations exists only on two vehicles of all we sold. These two are fitted with independent heater. The vibration is caused by incompetent installation of the aftermarket independent heater (Eberspaecher), whose exhaust pipe resonates with drivetrain" (imagine 200g shaking 2 tons of Lib) and prescribed removal of heater under loss of vehicle guarantee.
I did not - they really took me the guarantee away for the drivetrain.
Gag 1: The heater was mounted by DC dealership before I purchased Lib.
Gag 2: I have found another 2.5 CRD, produced half year sooner but less driven, without any heater and it vibrates identically.
Caribou1, can you compare vibs 4x4 and 4x2 on yours?
In an earlier post I said 100 Kg force would be an average setting, "off the nose". My tire center is 34.5cm, so I would expect a clutch pack torque close to 35~daNM (KG*M)
I will test out your trouble shoot. If it is still like that I guess I will tell the dealer to check the sender unit.
Thanks so much for the reply!
On a production line, when the symptom is recurrent, one could imagine a problem of misalignment of the front to rear axels by:
1- Jigs
2- Out of tolerance suspension locating holes/pins in the body of the Jeep
3- Defective lot in the procurement of suspension parts
My first approach to understand this would be:
1- Measure with a thin nylon cord on the right and left sides of the vehicle the lateral alignment of the front to rear tires. Two people are needed to do this, one assures tension and visual contact at the rear wheel, the other checks that the front tire is at a given distance of the cord. This can also be done with a mason's ruler.
2- Compare with the other side. The "pinch" (in french) between the front wheels can now be evaluated (~3mm).
3- If there is a true misalignment between the axels, it will not be possible to have a symmetric difference.
4- Check that the vehicle sits horizontally.
I asked a senior chemist :
- why do I feel headpain when I come close to a gasoline vessel, or sometimes just sitting inside a car? (the same applies for motorcycles)
His first answer was quite short: the additives.
- I reacted saying it was the case even when there were no leaks.
Then came this bit:
The newer gasoline additives start evaporating at low temperatures and their molecular chains are such that they continuously migrate through the walls of cheap fuel hose material and this causes the gasoline smell in cars. Vapours collect in the engine compartment and penetrate the same way in the ventilation systems because no particular attention is given to the extra cost of chemically adapted moulding materials.
A simple test : open your hood, grab the fuel hose and then smell your hand. There will be a trace of smell in many cases.
From this point of vue, considering the fuel gauge I think that a wrong choice of material exposed in the gas tank could lead to chemical agression then stress corrosion and early malfunction. It could also simply be cheap quality.
I just hope DaimlerChrysler has not hired this world famous european buyer that killed both Volkwagen and Opel reputations a few years ago. These two companies have not yet fully recovered, but the Japaneese are doing very well. Welcome to Europe.
I've had a great relationship with this dealership (and my service manager, in particular) for over five years now. I'm disappointed that they can't find anything, but I also feel like they are being honest that they tried their best. Having said that, however, I'm not going to relax. I don't think two different fluids just "disappear" coincidentally and for no reason. Perhaps we'll hear from some other folks about any similar issues.
Hope you get your "munge" problem figured out. By the way, I looked and mine doesn't have any munge.