Welcome, Toyota Tundra

dayle

My Tundra driving experience and opinions are
very close to those expressed by folks who are
loyal to Toyota. The back seat is bad, bad. I
had some trouble with getting the right seat belt
section without turning to look and I was puzzled by the delay in upshifting back into OD
after the hill was topped or speed restored. I
guess I would have to give my Ford 150 the edge in rear seating room and utility and their
way of handling tranny kickdown while in cruise.
ie: converter unlock first and then kickdown if
speed still drops.

netnovice

The more I hear everyones opinions... the more I am leaning towards taking a long break before I consider buying the Tundra.

Even if I could get it for the price I want, they won't build the Limited 4x4 until September or later. And what's up with not offering limited slip or full time 4 wheel drive?

Even with Toyota's excellent build quality, I think the bugs they need to work out lay in the options, back seat design, and pricing. I have always been disgusted with the pricing on the 4x4 Tacomas... it's not made of gold!

Someone wake me up when Toyota finds reality...

rander

I saw my first Tundra last night parked next to a new Silverado. I have to tell you that I'm not particularly impressed with the Tundra styling - but, it looked pretty good next to the Chevy. I have been extremely disappointed in the Chevy looks, too boxy and too much like the old Chevy I already have.

I'm likely to wait a few months like other comments here before I look seriously at the Tundra. I'm afraid the dealers will be awfully proud of them. Also, the Tundra and Chevy were sticker priced just about the same, even though the Chevy had more standard features (but only 3 doors).

I've been waiting to buy one of these new trucks (Chevy or Tundra) for over a year and really intended to buy a new Chevy last fall, but couldn't live with the idea of 3 doors in a 'transition' truck. Now, the Tundra gives me another option. I can wait until fall.

mackabee

WAKE UP! Reality is here! Some people see the value in the truck and can afford it and some people don't see the value and can't afford it. Which category are you in?

; )

Mackabee

rander

I can afford it.

I have a Chevy truck and have enjoyed it - no troubles. In fact, it is running and looks as good as ever. But, I want a new truck with an extended cab. I like vehicles that look good and get noticed. The new Chevy's look so much like my current truck that I would have to tell people I had traded. Since I seldom carry passengers, I would probably settle for a 3-door if it was on the drivers side. Again, with a 3rd door on the othe side, I might as well keep my old Chevy.

Obviously, value is a relative measure. Residual value is not so important to me as enjoying my new truck and liking the way it looks. So, I intend to buy a Tundra, Chevy , etc. based on my personal preferences. The Chevy didn't particularly impress me. And, the Tundra didn't either - until I saw it next to the new Chevy. The Tundra looked sleeker and more refined, more like a personal truck and less like a farm truck.

Actually, I would not buy a new Tundra until I hear feedback from new buyers. Chevy has had lots of problems introducing theirs the first year. I want to make sure Toyota has their act together. I don't particularly want to help a manufacturer develop new models at my expense.

lwf

I went down to our local Toyota dealer for my look at the Tundra. It seeme ok, but nothing spectacular. It seems that almost everything that can be said has already been said in this column. But, since it doesn't come in fire-engine red, I'll never be tempted to buy one.

The one I looked at had captain-chair front seats, but without a lumbar-support adjustment. I notice the new Nissan pickup doesn't have that either.
Obviously, Japanese truck manufacturer's don't think it's important. Does anyone think it would cost more than $5 for them to include that really nice feature?

scape2

I also went down and drove the Tundra. It was a nice truck but nothing to write home about. It seemed smaller inside than the Dodge/Ford/Chevy. Also the seats were not as comfortable either. I found nothing revolutionary or industry leading about the truck. I still believe this truck has a nitch between the full size and the mini trucks to fill. Dodge Dakota will be the one who has to come out swinging on this one.

truamapro

I have been waiting to see a Tundra. Are they trully out there? I live near a very large city and I have not seen one at the dealer yet..

mackabee

Every Toyota dealer in the USA has at least one Tundra on the lot or in the showroom for you to see.

Mackabee

rcn

desertrat1:

What is the ratio of the one rear end that is available?

arkie6

If I remember correctly, the Tundra V-8 model has a 3.91 rear end and the V-6 has 4.10.

Rich

lwf,
I agree with you on the axle ratios! A most strange set of numbers!

On the over all quality issues. Rather than go into the ravings of "I had this problem with this brand, etc." Let me express some observations of experiences in renting cars. Rental cars are the most abused cars in the world. Don't ever buy one because people like me rent them!

Over the last 25 years or so I've probably rented an average of 15 cars a year, each year. When I first started renting cars on a regular basis there was a very big difference in the overall quality among brands. Usually a rental car with about 20K miles was about what your own vehicle would be like between 60K and 80K.

In the last 5 years or so, three things have happened with rental car fleets. First, the quality of foreign makes has dropped off slightly. Second, the quality of domestic makes has improved significantly. Third, the rental car companys dispose of their vehicles at about 12K miles.

What this observation really means is that we only see the various makes at their best and near best. We no longer see the various makes getting closer to their worst in rental car fleets. What we do see in the rental car fleets is that the initial quality (first 12K) is comparable between various makes.

If that isn't like throwing gasoline on a fire, I don't know what is. :-)
Rich

volfy

Hey Rich, I think you're right on the money there. I never really cared much for the "Initial Quality Surveys" mostly because they are just surveys of people who have wildly different background and expectation of their vehicles. Another reason is precisely what you've brought up. Most brand new vehicles, even the crappy ones, run pretty good the first year or so.

The domestics have improved tremendously, but I tend to keep my vehicles for longer than 5 years, so "extended quality" does weight heavily in my decision. I won't dismiss the domestics on that, since better initial quality DOES translate to better extended quality. How fast the Big Three's curves drop off the charts after 5 years, I don't know.

Lohengrin

I see plenty of older pickups from the Big Three out there on the road, so the curve can't drop off that fast. And those were made back before the initial quality "improved significantly". I see old Toyotas too, but not in any larger quanity than domestic trucks. Just my observations.

volfy

I think the minute differences are meant to optimize against the various powertrain combinations, not for tow ratings, etc. like the big three does them.

shamus

Toyota, like most other foreign manufacturers, does not offer keyless remote entry on the Tundra, is that correct?

Rich

Lohengrin,
In all fairness to T, the numbers sold is no where near what C D F have been selling over the years. There just ain't that many old T trucks to see.

It's really a brutal market place. Any place else, selling 22,000 units a year is a success! In this market 22,000 units is barely adequate to survive.

Rich

Rich

volfy,
You're right! The problem with initial quality surveys is that by the time there is enough data, the model year is over. The results don't mean much for the new model year.

Your best bet is to buy a truck built on Wednesday. If not Wednesday, then Tuesday or Thursday. It was true 30 years ago, it's true today.

Rich

quadrunner500

How can you find out the date of manufacture, Rich? And is the entire vehicle manufactured on a single day, or can it spread out over several?

Rich

The actual build date can usually be found on the dealer paper work. I believe that some vehicles the date is placed on the factory sticker that is on the door jam. A way to find out the build date is required for recalls and TSBs.

I remember when I picked up my '99 F-250 the dealer looked at the sticker to determine if it needed the TSB applied for brake problems.

Rich

Rich

I may be showing my age, but the last time that I visited an assembly plant was to see how they made my father's first new car, a '58 Chevy.

To assemble the vehicle was really symphonic production with sub assemblies arriving at just the correct moment to be bolted into the vehicle. The frame was placed onto the conveyor system and gradually all parts arrived to be bolted on. The body, doors, fenders, hood and deck all arrived at different times and were pre-painted. The engine arrived assembled. I can't remember if the transmission was attached (to the engine) at that time. I think that the power train was attached to the frame before the body, but I'm not positive. The whole process took only a little more than an hour. The tour tried to keep up with the one vehicle so that the tourists could see one car built from scratch.

I guess that things are fairly similar today. Obviously all the component parts of the car are built at different times. I'm reasonably sure that there are some vehicles that are built over two days. Just think of the management mentality at any auto plant. At the start of the shift, you can't have the guys at the end of the line standing around waiting for the first car to arrive. Nor at the end of the shift can you have the guys at the beginning of the line doing nothing. So at quitting time, the line stops, where it is and then starts up the next day. I guess the "Built On Date" is when the vehicle rolls off the line. (In '58 it was onto a tread mill / dyno sort of thing and ran up to 60 MPH before being loaded onto rail car or truck. That was touted as the final quality check.)

Rich

brucec35

My enthusiasm for the new Tundra's "reasonable" prices has dampened with further investigation. When I saw the stickered $29,000 !!!! 2wd model on the dealers lot, I had to chuckle. The typical dog n pony show Toyota add-on sticker added a whopping $6000 to its price.

Add in a less-than-impressive interior and fairly homely looks, and well.....looks like another F-150.

GRB123

I ordered a Tundra last week from the dealership in my area. The MSRP sticker price was $28,200 and the dealer took $1,300 off to make the sale. I visited three dealers. Each had at least one available in the initial delivery. Not one had a premium attached to the price. And only one was firm on the MSRP. I should be taking delivery before memorial day.

sizemore

Looks like the Tundra is a winner, but I found a few faults... Test drove the Limited 4x4 with a V8...
Things i did not like were;
1. mirror on the drivers side did not have a cover, very distracting for myself...
2. back seats are just slightly worse than useless... Three Toyota engineers need to ride in the back of a Tundra for a 100 miles and then ride in the back seats of a silverado... I think they will see my point...
3. I use my 94 Toyota T100 for serious four wheeling fun, but the dealer and i could not get the new Tundra to shift into 4X4 low, only high...
4. A larger fuel tank would be nice for long trips...
5. The price tag is still a little high compared to the new Chevy...

Things I like are;
1. That beautiful V8 coupled to a smooth shifting automatic... (just wish i had the option for a stick)
2. The ride is smooth and quite..
3. The Toyota Quality... You can see it inside and out...

I have three kids, ages 14, 12 and 10... The biggest turn off is the back seat... The Toyota design team earns a D- on that one... I'm a real Toyota fan, but deciding between the Chevy and Toyota is tough... My kids and I need a back seat that will not put em in the hospital for life... But when it comes to a well built four wheel drive, I still want the Toyota... Anyone out there wanta buy a used T100 4X4???...

artt

Found this in a newspaper.

By Jean Halliday
AUTOMOTIVE NEWS

May 15, 1999


Armed with computers, Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. began pitching its
Tundra pickup six months before it was even set to reach the showroom
floor.

The carmaker started a three-phase program of direct mailings to just
over 300,000 prospects in January, says Dave Cordes, Toyota's manager
of direct marketing.

The mailings for Toyota's first eight-cylinder, full-sized pickup serve as an
example of a rapidly growing trend: Automakers are using advance
mailings and events to build awareness and consideration up to a year
before their products go on sale.

Direct mail has increased in all industries in the past five years since
improved database technology provides more detailed prospect
information, says John Bissell, managing partner of Gundersen Partners,
a management consulting firm in Bloomfield Hills, Mich.

He describes today's direct mail as a device to build rapport with
customers -- not a one-time selling tool.

Recipients of the Tundra mailing were asked to fill out a survey about
truck needs and usage. Toyota received 14,300 completed surveys,
translating to a return rate of about 4.5 percent, a better-than-average
rate, according to Bissell.

In addition, an identical survey was posted on Toyota's Web site, where
nearly 2,800 people responded. Nearly all online survey respondents
were Toyota owners.

The second mailing went to almost 40,000 prospects, including the
combined 17,100 respondents to the mail and online surveys.

Most of the other recipients had sought more Tundra information via the
Internet or an 800 number or had sent a business reply card from an auto
show brochure. All got a 10-minute video about the pickup and one of four
brochures, depending on their answers on usage.

In addition to a generic brochure, the other three were customized for
weekend warriors, commercial users and light-duty personal users.

Cordes says the program has given Toyota a better idea of how prospects
will use the 2000 Tundra, which will help fine-tune positioning for the
pickup.

A surprising finding: Prospects plan to use the Tundra as an image
vehicle, not simply for utility.

The final mailing is the biggest. Nearly 500,000 prospects, including all the
original 300,000, will receive invitations, the first on May 24, to test-drive
the pickup. Participants will get a flashlight kit as a thank you for the
test-drive.

Toyota worked with Polk, a Detroit-based research firm that tracks vehicle
registrations, to develop the Tundra mailing list. The test-drive invitation
will be staggered in three waves, 14 days apart, so dealers are not
swamped with prospects.

Dealers will get a kit to help them schedule and log test-drives and
manage leads.

Separately, Toyota partnered with Microsoft's online MSN Gaming Zone
for a customized tournament called Tundra Madness, which features the
pickup. Players at MSN's Web site at http://www.zone.com can vie to win a
Tundra. Four finalists will battle for that prize on June 18 at Toyota's plant
in Princeton, Ind.

Rich

Saw a Tundra on the freeway (I-405) on the way home tonight. It was painted similar to the ones I saw at the Long Beach Gran Prix. This one may have been from the display at the race. It had a ticked up paint job and 4" letters TRD. It was in the car pool lane and I couldn't read the license plate frame.

It's a nice looking truck. But the prices that you guys are talking about, WOW! About what my Super Duty Diesel cost. Double WOW.
Rich

volfy

This price gouging thing is what capitalism is all about. You see it whenever a high-demand low initial volume vehicle is first intrduced, like Honda Odyssey, VW New Beetle and now Toyota Tundra. Unless you need a new truck NOW or can afford it, wait a year or so for the production to catch up with demand.

BTW, I don't like the survey result that says most prospective Tundra owners are buying it for the image. Sad indeed that vehicles as utilitarian as trucks are bought because the owner thinks it's cool to be seen in one.

Rich

volfy,
I wouldn't worry much about the image thing. In a couple of years the "In thing" may be a stretched three wheel ATV with an out house over the rear axle. ;-)
Rich

quadrunner500

I noticed that the Chevy/GMC '99 Silverado/Sierra 4x4 with 5.3L engine gets better fuel mileage rating from the EPA for both city and highway driving than the lighter 4x4 Tundra with 4.7L V8 engine. What's up with that?

1greg

QuadRunner-Good questions on the mileage. When I talked to the Toyota people and saw the sticker I was surprised that it was rated at 14-17. The Landcruiser is rated 14-16 and I think it is substantially heavier than the Tundra. However, in one of the local papers here in Denver, the car test guy took the Tundra out for a spin and he said they got 18mpg in mixed driving. So we will see what it really is. I know I have seen trucks that had lower listings for the first model year and then they went up after they had actually been used. It might be that this is an estimate for this engine.

I would think this engine should get numbers around the new 4.8l engine that Chevy has, but we will see.

Greg Hoppes

Toyota17

The only other reason I can think it gets so low MPG is it is the only full-size pickup to get the E.P.A's Low-Emissions certificate

bslo33

All this talk on the V8.... What about the V6 in the Tundra? Is this the same engine used in the T100? How is it's reliability?

hindsite

Tundra uses regular gas while the Landcruisier uses premium gas.

volfy

I'm more interested in the V6 also, since I use my pickup mostly for light duty hauling/towing and commute. The V8 is nice, but it's more money and doesn't come with a 5-sp. The V6 doesn't get a whole lot better gas mileage, though. As far as I can tell, it's the same T-100 engine. They should have the head gasket problem fixed by now and I haven't heard of any other problem with the V6.

BTW Rich, ATV with an outhouse. That's funny. My bet is on 15 passenger conversion vans with a disco ball in the middle of the cab for the 70s nostalgic ;-)

qsqueen

I drove the Tundra 4x2, Ford F-150 4x2, and Dodge Ram 1500 4x2...I chose the Ford. The F-150 just feels and looks like a truck. That's what I want. Not a car. The Dodge feels like a large tin can and it sounds like one too. It also is a lot slower off the line. I also drove the Ford F-150 4x4 (my Toyota dealer did not have a Tundra 4x4) and after that I was sold. Also after reading your notes above from test drives of 4x2's and 4x4's, I will wait to buy a Tundra in a couple of years or so. Who buys first production anyway? I have never owned anything but Toyota 4x4 Trucks in the past - so this is a major move for me to Ford. I guess I am tired of little trucks. I love Toyota and I feel like I am betraying them, but I want a big 4x4 truck not a little one. Listen up Toyota, go full-size, not mid-size in your trucks especially if you are going to price them the same as a full-size. What gives?

wsnoble

bslo33

I have 98 Tacoma 4x4 with the V6. Toyota fixed the gasket problem was fixed after 96 I have had no problems at all. Smoothest V6 out there in my opinion...

-wsn

volfy

Apparently according to Toyota, Tundra is still a "future model" until the official launch date of June 1, 1999. Does this mean that the current Tundra owners are beta testers? Gawd, I hate how Microsoft's vaporware strategy has pervaded every other industry. :-(

cruetzel

I am intrigued by the Tundra, but wonder what experience others have with extended cabs and how much room there really is in the back. For the larger extended cab trucks , such as the Sierra (and possibly the Tundra now), how comfortable is it back there for an extended trip?

Rich

I had a couple of ladies in the rear seat of my 99 Super Duty F-250 Super Cab for a 2 hour freeway trip. (San Diego to LA) I'm 6' and my buddy is 6' 4". The ladies are 5' 11" and 5' 9".

We stopped half way so my buddy could take a smoke break. The ladies chose to remain in the back seat rather than walk about the rest area.

I guess the seats were comfortable. I do think that 2 hours is probably the maximum.
Rich

1greg

CRUETZEL-

If you look furthur back in this topic there are several people's thoughts and opinions on the extended cab topic and how everyone fit in them, myself included. At 6'2" none of them fit me very well, but I think that my wife at 5'2' would fit fine. Seat quality is another issue. The Tundra seat was not very good. I have found the Chevy and Ford much more comfortable. Dodge third and then the Toyota.

Overall I prefer the Chevy/GMC and Toyota Tundra if I were going to purchase, but the reasons are mixed. I have often thought if I could have the Chevy 4.8/5.3 or Tundra 4.8 in the Ford F150 that would be my idea of perfect, but what do I know.

I think all the above mentioned trucks have some redeeming values, but all are not perfect for me. Based on my previous experience with Chrysler, I probably wouldn't purchase a Dodge even though I like the look.

Greg Hoppes

romeo1

Thank You all for the info. I'm going out on Tuesday to see if I want to buy a Tundra V8 SR5. seems big. The 1990 Sr5 V6, I own is super.My wife inssists that I buy a new truck and donate this one to a church.

td1

I'm considering the Tundra for personal use; I've test-driven the SR5 and found it exceptionally quiet with good handling and maneuveribility, although I thought it would be roomier up front -- I didn't sit in the back because i don't plan on having rear passengers frequently. My questions concern 1. Safety: For me, a former Corolla owner who felt somewhat vulnerable in that otherwise excellent car, a big issue is safety. Logic suggests that the Tundra would provide ample protection, but I invite comments. 2. How might a 4x2 rear wheel drive such as the Tundra fare in occasional snow drifts? I currently live in SoCal, but forays to the ski areas are something I need to consider. 3. The MPG seems abysmally low; does anyone know how accurate, + or -, these MPG estimates generally are? Appreciate comments.

Toyota17

Safety wise the IIHS recently said that they predict the Tundra to be among the safest of the full-size pickups. It will be using the same technology as the Sienna which got the hihest safety rating in a vehicle ever!

volfy

Any 4x2 pickup with an empty bed will be dicey on snow and ice. 500 lbs of lanscape rock over the rear axle will help, but really your best bet is to drive another vehicle up Big Bear Mtn.

My guess on the gas mileage is that the numbers are pretty good for comparison between make and models. Actual mileage obviously depends on your right foot, but I doubt you could better EPA by any more than a few mpg, even if your do [non-permissible content removed]-foot these big trucks.

batad

how much can the standard V-6 haul?
what is the MPG?
is the engine big/strong enough to haul 5 adults and some light cargo or can it haul a bedload of gravel? thanks.

skiefer

Whats going to be available for 2001? My biggest issue is with the rear legrooom

jimcarr

Is the limited slip rear axle an available option on the Tundra?

mikej4

I just stumbled across this by mistake. Sure am glad i made the mistake. You see I am in the market to purchase a 1/2 ton pick-up. I will now add the Tundra to my list of possible candidates. Thank you all for the info.

cgames

Just test-drove the Tundra. I'll take mine in
green. Need some info.

Is limited-slip available?

Option code EJ (audio) premium sound w/6disc
changer available on model 7728?

tp4unc

No limited slip at this time.