Anybody can give me some suggestion on choosing between a Tundra and a Chevy Silverado? My major concern is Chevy's reliability. Does anybody have any opinion on this? Thanks.
You kidding, GO FOR THE TUNDRA, its the best truck I ever drove. My lease is up on my 1998 F-150 in a couple of months and I am buying a 2000 Toyota Tundra SR5 with a 4.7L 245HP V8!
Better plan on spending more for fuel since the EPA rates the smaller, lighter 245 hp Tundra 4x4 with 4.7L engine to get worse fuel economy than the larger, heavier 270 hp Silverado 4x4 with 5.3L engine. Silverado has 4 wheel disc brakes and locking rear axle too. Silverado extended cab has much more room in back seat also.
I just don't see how you can compare a Tundra to a full size Chevy Silverado, Ford F150 or a Dodge Ram. The interior of the Tundra is smaller, back seat area smaller, it just seems like it compares more with the Dodge Dakota. Also, don't forget about the problems Toyota had with head gaskets on its T100's. This truck was an absolute flop for Toyota. My opinion, you want FULL size go with the Silverado!
Man, this "buy the truck I bought/am buying" bit is just too much for me.
Fangg, what do you use your truck for? Buying or leasing? Keeping it for 2 year or 5? Are you looking for a V6 5sp work truck or a decked out V8 luxo truck?
The T-100 was a good truck, the only real problem was that it was slapped with an import tariff that priced it out of range. Fair comparison, huh?
Enough already with the head gasket spiel and Tundra-Dakota comparison. Don't you guy get tired of badmouthing what you don't like and blowing your own horn? Jeez...
I can just see it, 10 years from now somebody is gonna ask about the 2010 Tundra and some dude's gonna say: "BTW, don't forget the Toyota head gasket problem." Should I start with the GM exploding gas tank bit?
You know what, I happen to like the overall package of the Sierra Ext. cab particularly with the 4.8L - great power, 4-wheel disc, ABS std., bigger everything than everybody else. Too bad it's a little too big for my taste and needs, which may change by the time I buy a full-size. For now, I like the Tundra better, particular the V6 model. But all this matter squad unless I know what it is that fangg is looking for. My $0.02
Volfy, I've always been a toyota fan. They make good stuff. What you are hearing is other full size truck owners sounding off on it's shortcomings. This looks to be a nice dependable mid size truck that toyota is trying to pass off as full size. These people are just voiceing disappointment.
Thank you all for the input and I see you can make quite different statements if you are looking from different angles. The truck I'm looking for is mostly for personal use and some light hauling for now but maybe a small to med size boat in the future. I'm driving a small pickup now that I really want a bigger one and it can be full-size or "full-size lite" as the Tundra. I need extended cab to seat more people, although infrequently, when necessary. I probably will keep it for about 5 or 6 years. My shopping list is now narrowed down to the Tundra V8 (either SR5 or Ltd) or a Chevy Silverado 4.8 or 5.3. What I like about the Tundra is it's performance, 4 doors, smooth ride and its Toyota name which spells quality and reliability. Oh another thing is since it's a bit shorter, I think I will be able to keep it in my garage. What I like in the Chevy or what I don't like in the Tundra is the rear seat leg room, ABS (optional on Tundra), disc brakes(4-wheel on Chevy and front-wheel on Tundra) and the price.
I think now the two trucks have almost the same weight on my decision making scale. If I can add anything to any side of it, like "Chevy trucks are just as reliable as Toyota", or "My personal experience with Chevy truck is a nightmare", the decision will be an easy one
Even though I am jaded and happy with my 99 Silverado, to be fair, you have to factor all things into the decision, and especially including price and availability.
So with that in mind, who knows, the Dakota, or Ranger might be right for you if you want something smaller. (Or Mazda or Nissan) Or the F150 Lightning if you want the fastest truck around. Or the Ram Cummins if you want the best looking hauler.
But between the Silverado and Tundra, they are about the same price. I think the Chevy makes the better hauler, Toyota the better off road machine.
As for reliability, well if you read all the complaints about the 99 Silverado/Sierra, I think most of them fall into the category of quality issues, not reliability. Rubber molding, wind leak etc. But important things like engine and tranny are thoroughly tested, 3 years in the C5, 2 years in the F bodys. The engine manages best in class economy, and the 5.3L is still a match for the Tundra 4.7L in acceleration, while using simpler pushrod technology, and re-designed heads which flow like OHC types, re-vised firing order, 100,000 mile maintenance, and can run for 50 miles with no engine coolant.
Overall quality, tightness, feel, maneuverability, sophistication and refinement might find the Tundra with an edge.
I have a 95 Chevy extended cab Z71 with every option I could get on it at the time. It was my first full sized truck, and I went in head first. I have loved having the truck for the past 4+ years for a number of obvious reasons, but have been extremely disappointed with Chevy quality/reliability. The big things to happen were complete AC failure at 20k miles, both electric window motors failed at different mileages, battery busting open at 5k miles (engine compartment corrosion started soon after all around the battery and Chevy couldn't explain how it bust), radio melting a cassette tape forcing total radio replacement, and so on. . . Now, to be fair, maybe I got a lemon of a new truck. Fortunately most of the problems hit and were covered under the warranty period. What made it crappy though was having to deal with Chevy dealerships. No loaners for warranty work, sometimes taking 2-3 days for basic work, and finally, and most important to me, being treated poorly. So, I've finally had enough of Chevy. I am returning to Toyota (I had a 4Runner and Supra before). I can honestly say I have nothing bad to say about my experiences with Toyota. So this fall I'm buying a Tundra 4x4 limited, loaded out. I called about 4 dealerships until I found one to commit to $800 over cost (We'll see if they follow through). I agree the back seats suck, and keyless entry would be nice, but it's a Toyota through-and-through with a bed that a 4' sheet of plywood can lay flat in. It tows with the best of them, no more three point parking, and ahh the quiet. It's the best the truck market has to offer right now.
Although many people in these rooms know me to be a GM/Ford/Dodge crusader, I am fair. I just get sick and tired of hearing about how bad Ford/GM/Dodge products are. So in my quest to dispell these rumors I stumble at times upon a site that gives some pretty good reliability numbers. And yes, the Chevy does not get that great of a rating, in all fairness here is the site www.carpoint.msn.com. Read away!
pj, I would think that by September you'll be able to find anything you want on a dealer's lot. Toyota should have a glut of Tundras on the market. It has nothing to do with quality but rather over optimistic production capabilities. I'm guessing that there'll be huge discounts and rebates during late fall and through the winter. By late winter Toyota should be able to flip the 100K unit Indiana plant into producing other vehicles.
How is the Tundra selling? It is now a week since they have been officially released and my local dealer has 5+ on the lot. I would think if it was so hot...there would be a waiting list like the Honda Odyssey..
Thanks, Willbt. I noticed you live in Texas. You don't happen to live in the DFW area, do you? I would love to know which dealership could give you a price of $800 over invoice if you do.
Test drove the tundra. powerful and comfortable. but, for a 6'4" person a little tight up front. tried to just sit in the back and impossible. whats interesting is the commercial they have for the tundra. 4 manly construction workers shown getting out out of the cab. what a joke. maybe more room in the next model? i'll continue looking but the tundra is on hold for me now.
Have a '95 T100 Extra Cab V6 and think the V6 has plenty of power, despite the manly need for a V8. I haul bedloads of dirt, etc sometimes and have no pblm. I also get around 19-21mpg. Expect the EPA estimates to be quite low for the V6 & V8. Auto-trans is a gem. Have had no pblm w/engine, drivetrain, etc. I agree the back seat could have been larger but my T100 fits in my garage, where the domestics can't. Still I think that US truck byers are US loyal so the volume may never reach its potential. That's OK. It means the Tundra that replaces my T100 will be cheaper.
My initital impression from having driven both the Tundra access cab v-8 4x4 and the GMC Sierra x cab 5.3l 4x4 are as follows...
Tundra smooth, quiet, powerful not as full sized as the GMC, shorter, meaning will fit easily in my garage. Nice front seat area but I have to put seat all the way back for my legs. Room in back is very small and back seat reminds me of a peice of foam tacked onto a board. I like the design of the 4 doors with the outside handles. Price is reasonable.
GMC Sierra- Spacious, cavernous you get the point. I had to move the seat Forward to reach the pedals. Still had room in x cab for me to sit behind the drivers seat, but it was a little tight. Not quite as quiet as the Tundra but very close. Transmission didn't shift as smoothly but wasn't abrupt either. Didn't seem quite as peppy but I think it is heavier, I just haven't checked the figuires. Would barely fit in my garage with lot of rearranging. Doesn't feel huge when driving in traffic though. Turned well. Sticker price was much higher $30,000 to about $28,000, but you get 4 wheel disks and abs on GMC.
Verdict is- not sure. And it will depend on how I plan to use it. I will wait for the 4th door to be introduced and wouldn't buy either one in the first year. For me to even think of buying a GM product is amazing, I wouldn't have touched one a year ago but I am impressed enough with the new truck to not automatically discount it right away as I would have before. I still think they have some build quality issues to address but they can't be any worse than the Jeep Cherokee I purchased brand new in 1995.
Rich, Three point parking - Having to make initial bid into a parking slot, stop, throw it into reverse, reorient entry vector, finally pull in. Not a major complaint, but Tundra has better turn radius and while on the test drive I tried it out in a grocery store parking lot with no problem.
fangg, My uncle taught me this about buying a new car: 1. Use either this site (or their book) or Kelly Blue Book (www.kbb.com) to figure out exactly what you want, including the codes for vehicle and options. Figure out the dealer cost for the vehicle and options. 2. Get on the phone with the dealerships, but try to talk to the fleet manager first, then the sales manager if the fleet guy won't help or isn't available. Tell him what you want and that you want it $800 over cost, you'll walk in with check in hand (or financing complete)if he can have it on his lot waiting for you. For most of these guys all it requires is a phone call, a little bit of paperwork, and they make $800 bucks plus the holdbacks, etc. These guys usually don't work on commission. Knowing the codes helps him find your vehicle for you. Knowing the prices covers your [non-permissible content removed]. The other thing to keep in mind though is that there are other charges you'll have to pay no matter what: Destination charge, Toyota has an advertising fee for both national and local stuff, and a few other minor ones. That's how I bought my Chevy, but I got it $500 over cost back in 95. $800 seems fair, but maybe you can do better. And I live in San Antonio. Hope that was helpful.
I was going to post all of my opinions but many are so similar to lgreg's I'll just post some personal notes.
I'm 5'7" and no one in my family is any taller so the Tundra back seat is just fine for me. Plus in general, I just don't like the ever increasing size of the full-size trucks. Makes parking and turning into side-loading garages that much more difficult.
I find the LT1-derived Vortec V8 engines very satisfying. The OHV 4.8L's HP and torque are within 10% of the Toyota DOHC 4.7L, despite Toyota's claim of DOHC's supposed superiority. Still, the Toyota V8 is just a gem of a motor. I don't have first hand experience with GM reliability, but I'll have to give Toyota a definitive edge simply by their engineering reputation and track record alone. Nevertheless, if enough other areas tips the scale towards the Sierra for me, I won't loose sleep over buying GM.
If you're keeping your truck for 5-6 years, resale value is probably slightly in Toyota's favor. I expect both trucks to hold up equally well under light/homeowner/commute duty for that period, barring a lemon. Any heavy/commercial duty I'll actually have to go with a domestic, as maintenance cost will invariably increase and domestics parts are cheaper/easier to get. Plus the beefier GM beds will hold up better under commercial (ab)use.
I have to say that I too am very surprised I'm giving GM serious consideration. If I move into a house with a 24' deep garage I'll be even more convinced. As of now, the Sierra, whose front end I like better, simply won't fit my current garage.
The LS1 is an entirely new design with heads that flow as well as overhead cam designs, but with the simplicity of pushrods.
The Toyota 4.7L DOHC is a gem of a motor, but the new vortecs manage more horsepower and better fuel economy, even in larger heavier trucks. Shouldn't that count?
The Toyota certainly does have the definitive edge for their reliability and engineering reputation for cars, but for trucks, this is not so clear, since most Toyotas are used mainly as personal use vehicles rather than the more arduous fleet duty.
I don't know whether to be happy or sad about the sales numbers. I'm kinda glad to see the Tundra doing well, but this just means no chance in Hell for rebates and big discounts. At least till production meets demand.
quadrunner, I'd say the 4.8L Vortec and the 4.7L i-Force are comparable in that their HP and torque are within 10% of each other. One is higher in HP; the other higher in torque. Their EPA mileage are so close, the actual mileage is likely to be again comparable.
I don't think Toyota will ever have any motor any time soon to compete with the domestic big block V8s or diesels. Toyotas are good for some light duty commercial fleet use like AutoParts and such, but, I agree heavy haulers are better off buying domestic.
Volfy, you can keep comparing that 4.8L Vortec to the Tundra V8 if you like. But even the larger 270 hp 315 ft/lb Vortec 5.3L in the Silverado/Sierra in both 2WD and 4x4 gets a better EPA mileage rating for BOTH city and highway driving than the Tundra 4.7L.
Has anyone received a quote on a new Tundra pickup yet. I have always had toyota pickups and had good luck with them. Soon I will be in the market for a new pickup, and the truck that catches my eye is this Tundra pickup. I know someone who just test drove this truck. Was told the Tundra has lots of power and has a very good ride. Need to if anyone has received a good price on this truck or is this truck overpriced.
You know if you look at the sales figures from their "record sales" press release it really isn't that impressive. Let's look at what it says, but more importantly what it means and what they are not telling us.
First off, I have test drove this vehicle and like it, a lot. Just a nice ride - so now my biases are known.
"TORRANCE, Calif., June 10 /PRNewswire/ -- In its first week on the market, the full-size V8-powered Tundra pickup recorded the fastest sales start of any new product in Toyota history."
This is great for them but...
"Launched nationally on June 1, Tundra sales tallied 4,565 units through June 7, a selling rate of 650 units per day. Demand is stronger than current supply, as Toyota dealers report an additional 5,000 units are already on order."
Now here is where it is great for anyone wanting to buy this rig. They say above that this truck was nationally launched June 1 but they have been on the lot for 2-3 weeks before that plus their have been pre production models for test drive for a couple months. They sold less than 5,000 trucks in actuality over the past 2-3 months not in the first week. Think about it, there were some pre-sold units from those early test drives, plus all the units sold prior to june first and through the first week of June. They than state a rate of 650 per day, what a bunch of bull. It is much less than that due to them summing all sales from prior to the "official launch".
So for the sake of aurgument we won't even take into consideration the pre sold units and just say that most dealers had trucks on their lot 2 weeks before the official launch. So for 21 days they sold 4565 units or at a rate of 217 per day. Now this is at the excitement phase of sales too, right at launch so it may slow down, but extrapolate that forward and it is <80K units annually. (toyota also stated in a different release I now can't find they had 5000 pre sold tundras- so what happened)
Considering in my relatively small market place here on the west coast (portland OR) Every toyota dealership has at minimum a few on the lot, and one dealer has a dozen. If this vehicle was such a hot seller than why are there any around on lots. Well mainly cause they are unwilling to come too far off MSRP, that can't last so hold out. The more of us that do the quicker the price will fall into more closely resemble that of domestic trucks. That is not far off invoice.
I drove a Tundra at a dealer Thursday. The salesman said they hadn't sold any yet. They had 3 or 4 on the lot and the salesman said she was sure sales would pick up when they have several to choose from. She was surprised they haven't sold any. I wasn't after looking at the price. $33,000 for cheap imitation of a Ford F150.
I drove a Toyota Tundra today 6/12/99 in Fall River Mass and was very impressed with the ride and handling as well as the acceleration. However I found the price somewhat steep $29000. and only one to sell on the lot with no moving away from the MSRP. I will wait for more production and better incentetives and meanwhile test the competition. I received a questionare several months back on my opinion of how Toyota should build this truck as well as an offer for a free mag light to test this truck. I would think that a more suitable offer from Toyota for their loyal customers would be a discount price on their new truck no matter how small.
Berg, you make a very good point. Isn't amazing how they can smudge numbers to their advantage! Have you forwarded this to the author? The two Toyota delears by me have only sold a total of 3 Tundras. One dealership only had 1! The other had 3! where do they get these sales numbers??
I tried the Tundra out and liked it a couple of weeks before the were available. I placed an order and on the 28th of May it was here for me. Cost loaded was $25,353. It is everything I wanted, far more car like that the 97 Silverado I traded in. It rides unusually well for a truck, is more quiet than my wife's Acura Legend, and accelerates very well. It is a great truck and is going to be a home run for Toyota. Hope they can make plenty of them. The Japanese taught us make decent cars and now they are showing us a thing or two about trucks.
A proud owner of five prior Toyota trucks,and now , after test driving the Tundra i'm again a new Toyota owner, the Tundra is the soothest, hottest, best driving heavy half ton i've driven!!! the great American machine is greatly improving when you can buy an American built truck that is this so well smoothed with quality, and guts. America,,,keep up the great work!!thanks,, a very pleased tundra owner,,Doug Marion
Well, I have a 4x4 F150 and while it still runs decent I have no love for it. Haven't yet test driven a Tundra, but dwelling on it. I also have a Tacoma 4x4 TRD and love it. Still the F150 is one tough truck to beat.
I tested drove the Tundra V8 (again) last weekend and I think I'm gonna get one sometime soon. Really excellent machine. Talked with the dealer for about 15 minutes on ordering a Limited 4*2 and the best they can do is $800 under MSRP. Since they were the first dealer I ever talked number with on a Tundra, I left with hope that I could find some better deal later with the same or another dealer.
One thing I forgot to do both time test driving was starting the truck. Both times the salesmen started it and backed it up for me. I heard from other discussion forums that some people are complaining about that one has to crank some usually long time (about 5 secs) before the engine will start. The proud owners of the new Tundra trucks, did you ever have the same problem?
fangg, My SR5 does seem to crank a little longer than you'd expect, not 5 sec. but about 2-3 sec. which still seems a little long to me. BTW, I paid $1761 under MSRP and they threw in a class 3 hitch to boot.
I'm A died-in-the-wool Toyota fan for several decades now. Have always had good success. From 2 pick-ups to several cars including my Camry V6LE with 120K miles and no complaints between them. Took my first test drive recently on the Tundra. Have been very interested in buying a full size truck (currently have an '86 Toy p/u). After checking out the Tundra, the verdict is: I'm still waiting for a full size truck from Toyota worthy of spending $25K+. The Tundra definately has many things I like about it. First V8 in a truck from Toyota, very comfortable interior (got spoiled in the camry), smooth, quiet, etc. But at 6ft, I find it a little cramped up front and next-to-impossible to get in the back. I dont get Toyotas's mentality. They did all of this work to build a new truck to compete with American companies, then make it smaller. They most likely will not win converts used to buying (real) full-size American trucks. The only thing they end up doing is making die-hard Toyota fans like myself wish they had the option of buying a full-size truck from Toyota. If I wanted a slightly smaller full-size truck, I would have bought the T-100! Instead of doing right the first time(or second, if you count the T-100), they downsize it slightly, probably for cost-savings to stay competitive. Unfortunately, this means that if I want to take my wife, nephew and neice skiing this year, I will still have to borrow my brother's Chevy extracab, which is large enough for 5 plus equipment. I sure hope someone from Toyota is listening to these message boards, because a lot of them are saying the same thing. Paul
PSTACHO or Carl, I want a Tundra, but I have to order one and it takes 10 to 12 weeks or more. Can you get me the dealer's number who has a Sunfire Red or Thunder gray? Will I get one for under 28K. I can't get one under 28K in MN. Thanks.
I kind of think they know they aren't going to pull to many people away from Ford, Dodge, and Chevy. Poeple that buy and USE those trucks are pretty loyal. I kind of wonder if they aren't going for the Tacoma truck people that want/need something larger. Since I have only sat in a T-100 once a long time ago, I can't really remember how large they were in comparison to the Tundra. I do know that I am seeing more T-100 in the area that I live in than I thought were ever bought/sold. The value of the ones that have the 190hp v-6 since 1995 I believe seems to be staying quite high by the listings I see in the paper in Denver.
the motor in the truck is fine but the light weight doors are a joke. The fenders are still bolted on with cheap bolts that break off two years later when a bodyman tries to remove one. Talk to a good body man and he'll point out their cheapness for you. Don't get hit in one of these. I've have owned seven toyota trucks last one being a t100, I bought for 3500 under list. A give away. Until I tried to trade it in at a gmc dealer and was offered 5k less than trade in book. It wasn't easy but I finally got rid of it for book. The tundra still has shoe brakes in the rear, what a joke, and no limited slip. Toyota get it together. The diesel they make is excellant. I drove a Landcruiser in Australia with one. Great. Why not import it. That might make me consider going back. Now I'll stick with my 99 sierra with its 5.3 and great disc brakes. Its the one to beat.
"the motor in the truck is fine but the lightweight doors are a joke. The "
Doors that are light and close easily are PROPERLY aligned doors!
Doors that feel heavy and require more "push" are out of alignment!
How do you think it would be to open a door if the truck was on its side? It would be unusually heavy. As you lean the truck back into its proper stance, the door will get easier and easier to open.
As for the brakes, you really screwed up there.
Quote from Citro:
"The tundrastill has shoe brakes in the rear, what a joke, and no limited slip. Toyota get it together. The"
Did you even bother to see the braking results for he Tundra? It completely outbraked the big three. The closet ruck was the Chevy.....20 feet behind!!! Unbelievable! Even while towing and with a full load it beat them. Toyota makes absoultely THE best brakes for trucks, Ever check out the Tacomas brakes? Those are even stronger brakes than what the big three e full sizes use. Compare the tacoma brakes to say, a f-150 or a ranger. I think you will be surprised. the tundra offers and industry first 4 piston MONSTEr brake caliper. Thats just awesome.
If your gonna rip the tundra, rip it for its lack of manual with a v-8 , it size, and its looks. But dont rip on toyotas engineeering, because it is always top notch and the cream of the crop. They really, really know how to put the mechanical componenets together. Those are the finest full size truck brakes EVER
made.
Also, the Tundra is the only Full size to use a 4 piston brake caliper! Thats some heavy duty brakes my man. Even the Dodge v10 extra cab longbed doesnt use brakes that powerful.
Sorry spoog the shoe brakes are still primative. the truck faster because its much lighter. You don't see shoes on a porsche or even a lexus. And the doors are cheap and light. take off the door panel and laugh. The support bar could be kick in. The eary t100 didn't even have a bar in the door if you recall. Yes toyota does care much about integrity. The engine is the only real attractive thing and their diesel the best engine they have is'nt imported. Buy a real truck gm or a big ford diesel and you'll get better value and trade in in the future.
I agree with you on all counts. Seems like Toyota handicapped themselves in going after a very loyal market. So the only other explanation is, as you mentioned, probably targeting the Tacoma-buyer market. Considering the size of the Tacoma (especially the so-called back seat), the Tundra is cavernous by way of comparision. I've noticed the price isnt all that far behind either. About $4k less, comparably equipped (sans the V8, of course). Ive noticed quite a few of the t-100's in this area as well(Bay Area). Was interested in buying one a few months back, until I saw the resale prices. Most 97's to 98's with 10-30K miles were selling for almost the same or more as the Tundra's MSRP.
I have a ten year old Toyota pickup and will buy a new truck this fall. It will be between a Dakota or the Tundra. For me the questions will be about adding the 4.7 Jeep engine in the Dakota and not doing away with the extended cab. I won't purchase a Tundra unless they add a limited slip differential. I have suffered without one for ten years on my old Toyota. I'd like to hear from Toyota about their plans about the limited slip.
I must say that I like GM trucks' new 4-wheel disk brakes very, very much. But I must also say that unless you do a lot of heavy-duty hauling and trailering, good front brakes are much more important, especially on light rear end vehicles like pickup trucks. The front brakes do 70-80% of the braking with an empty bed. I will have to give the Tundra with beefy 4-piston calipers a slight edge with light or no payload. Heavily loaded, Silverado/Sierra with rear disc brakes are more reassuring. This is another reason why I consider GM trucks a better match for the trades, and the Tundra tailored for personal use. Of course as always, your payload may vary.
Still, I wish Tundra had rear discs. I've messed with both discs and drums, and you couldn't pay me enough to R&R 'em d*mn shoes.
I am not sure if the Tundra has the rear antilocks or not? I had rear antilocks on my 1995 Nissan and it was okay. Nothing to write home about. I had 4wheel abs on a 1995 Cherokee I owned and on my current 1998 Pathfinder and to be homest, I am not a big fan of abs, or at least with these two particular systems especially in the snow. I just haven't seen much benefit. When you drove your Silverado last winter the few times we actaully had snow what was your impression of the usefulness of the abs?
My impression? Really never had a good opportunity to test them on snow or ice except on a patch in a parking lot. They are quick to react, and you feel the pedal buzz under your foot.
Where I have noticed them is during hard braking on the dry when you have the steering wheel turned just a bit. The pedal buzzes. I guess I would be locking up one tire in that situation. I probably wasn't even aware I was locking a tire before.
But on a snowy mountain pass, in the past if I felt them locking, I would pump the brake pedal in an emergency. But the bottom line is if you don't have enough braking distance, you will still have a collision. But you will roll into the accident instead of sliding into it.
Comments
You kidding, GO FOR THE TUNDRA, its the best truck I ever drove. My lease is up on my 1998 F-150 in a couple of months and I am buying a 2000 Toyota Tundra SR5 with a 4.7L 245HP V8!
Also, don't forget about the problems Toyota had with head gaskets on its T100's. This truck was an absolute flop for Toyota.
My opinion, you want FULL size go with the Silverado!
Fangg, what do you use your truck for? Buying or leasing? Keeping it for 2 year or 5? Are you looking for a V6 5sp work truck or a decked out V8 luxo truck?
The T-100 was a good truck, the only real problem was that it was slapped with an import tariff that priced it out of range. Fair comparison, huh?
I can just see it, 10 years from now somebody is gonna ask about the 2010 Tundra and some dude's gonna say: "BTW, don't forget the Toyota head gasket problem." Should I start with the GM exploding gas tank bit?
You know what, I happen to like the overall package of the Sierra Ext. cab particularly with the 4.8L - great power, 4-wheel disc, ABS std., bigger everything than everybody else. Too bad it's a little too big for my taste and needs, which may change by the time I buy a full-size. For now, I like the Tundra better, particular the V6 model. But all this matter squad unless I know what it is that fangg is looking for. My $0.02
The truck I'm looking for is mostly for personal use and some light hauling for now but maybe a small to med size boat in the future. I'm driving a small pickup now that I really want a bigger one and it can be full-size or "full-size lite" as the Tundra. I need extended cab to seat more people, although infrequently, when necessary. I probably will keep it for about 5 or 6 years.
My shopping list is now narrowed down to the Tundra V8 (either SR5 or Ltd) or a Chevy Silverado 4.8 or 5.3. What I like about the Tundra is it's performance, 4 doors, smooth ride and its Toyota name which spells quality and reliability. Oh another thing is since it's a bit shorter, I think I will be able to keep it in my garage. What I like in the Chevy or what I don't like in the Tundra is the rear seat leg room, ABS (optional on Tundra), disc brakes(4-wheel on Chevy and front-wheel on Tundra) and the price.
I think now the two trucks have almost the same weight on my decision making scale. If I can add anything to any side of it, like "Chevy trucks are just as reliable as Toyota", or "My personal experience with Chevy truck is a nightmare", the decision will be an easy one
So with that in mind, who knows, the Dakota, or Ranger might be right for you if you want something smaller. (Or Mazda or Nissan)
Or the F150 Lightning if you want the fastest truck around. Or the Ram Cummins if you want the best looking hauler.
But between the Silverado and Tundra, they are about the same price. I think the Chevy makes the better hauler, Toyota the better off road machine.
As for reliability, well if you read all the complaints about the 99 Silverado/Sierra, I think most of them fall into the category of quality issues, not reliability. Rubber molding, wind leak etc. But important things like engine and tranny are thoroughly tested, 3 years in the C5, 2 years in the F bodys. The engine manages best in class economy, and the 5.3L is still a match for the Tundra 4.7L in acceleration, while using simpler pushrod technology, and re-designed heads which flow like OHC types, re-vised firing order, 100,000 mile maintenance, and can run for 50 miles with no engine coolant.
Overall quality, tightness, feel, maneuverability, sophistication and refinement might find the Tundra with an edge.
Now, to be fair, maybe I got a lemon of a new truck. Fortunately most of the problems hit and were covered under the warranty period. What made it crappy though was having to deal with Chevy dealerships. No loaners for warranty work, sometimes taking 2-3 days for basic work, and finally, and most important to me, being treated poorly.
So, I've finally had enough of Chevy. I am returning to Toyota (I had a 4Runner and Supra before). I can honestly say I have nothing bad to say about my experiences with Toyota. So this fall I'm buying a Tundra 4x4 limited, loaded out. I called about 4 dealerships until I found one to commit to $800 over cost (We'll see if they follow through). I agree the back seats suck, and keyless entry would be nice, but it's a Toyota through-and-through with a bed that a 4' sheet of plywood can lay flat in. It tows with the best of them, no more three point parking, and ahh the quiet. It's the best the truck market has to offer right now.
What is "Three Point Parking"?
pj,
I would think that by September you'll be able to find anything you want on a dealer's lot. Toyota should have a glut of Tundras on the market. It has nothing to do with quality but rather over optimistic production capabilities. I'm guessing that there'll be huge discounts and rebates during late fall and through the winter. By late winter Toyota should be able to flip the 100K unit Indiana plant into producing other vehicles.
Rich
Tundra smooth, quiet, powerful not as full sized as the GMC, shorter, meaning will fit easily in my garage. Nice front seat area but I have to put seat all the way back for my legs. Room in back is very small and back seat reminds me of a peice of foam tacked onto a board. I like the design of the 4 doors with the outside handles. Price is reasonable.
GMC Sierra- Spacious, cavernous you get the point. I had to move the seat Forward to reach the pedals. Still had room in x cab for me to sit behind the drivers seat, but it was a little tight. Not quite as quiet as the Tundra but very close. Transmission didn't shift as smoothly but wasn't abrupt either. Didn't seem quite as peppy but I think it is heavier, I just haven't checked the figuires. Would barely fit in my garage with lot of rearranging. Doesn't feel huge when driving in traffic though. Turned well. Sticker price was much higher $30,000 to about $28,000, but you get 4 wheel disks and abs on GMC.
Verdict is- not sure. And it will depend on how I plan to use it. I will wait for the 4th door to be introduced and wouldn't buy either one in the first year. For me to even think of buying a GM product is amazing, I wouldn't have touched one a year ago but I am impressed enough with the new truck to not automatically discount it right away as I would have before. I still think they have some build quality issues to address but they can't be any worse than the Jeep Cherokee I purchased brand new in 1995.
Greg Hoppes
Three point parking - Having to make initial bid into a parking slot, stop, throw it into reverse, reorient entry vector, finally pull in. Not a major complaint, but Tundra has better turn radius and while on the test drive I tried it out in a grocery store parking lot with no problem.
fangg,
My uncle taught me this about buying a new car:
1. Use either this site (or their book) or Kelly Blue Book (www.kbb.com) to figure out exactly what you want, including the codes for vehicle and options. Figure out the dealer cost for the vehicle and options.
2. Get on the phone with the dealerships, but try to talk to the fleet manager first, then the sales manager if the fleet guy won't help or isn't available. Tell him what you want and that you want it $800 over cost, you'll walk in with check in hand (or financing complete)if he can have it on his lot waiting for you. For most of these guys all it requires is a phone call, a little bit of paperwork, and they make $800 bucks plus the holdbacks, etc. These guys usually don't work on commission. Knowing the codes helps him find your vehicle for you. Knowing the prices covers your [non-permissible content removed]. The other thing to keep in mind though is that there are other charges you'll have to pay no matter what: Destination charge, Toyota has an advertising fee for both national and local stuff, and a few other minor ones.
That's how I bought my Chevy, but I got it $500 over cost back in 95. $800 seems fair, but maybe you can do better.
And I live in San Antonio. Hope that was helpful.
I'm 5'7" and no one in my family is any taller so the Tundra back seat is just fine for me. Plus in general, I just don't like the ever increasing size of the full-size trucks. Makes parking and turning into side-loading garages that much more difficult.
I find the LT1-derived Vortec V8 engines very satisfying. The OHV 4.8L's HP and torque are within 10% of the Toyota DOHC 4.7L, despite Toyota's claim of DOHC's supposed superiority. Still, the Toyota V8 is just a gem of a motor. I don't have first hand experience with GM reliability, but I'll have to give Toyota a definitive edge simply by their engineering reputation and track record alone. Nevertheless, if enough other areas tips the scale towards the Sierra for me, I won't loose sleep over buying GM.
If you're keeping your truck for 5-6 years, resale value is probably slightly in Toyota's favor. I expect both trucks to hold up equally well under light/homeowner/commute duty for that period, barring a lemon. Any heavy/commercial duty I'll actually have to go with a domestic, as maintenance cost will invariably increase and domestics parts are cheaper/easier to get. Plus the beefier GM beds will hold up better under commercial (ab)use.
I have to say that I too am very surprised I'm giving GM serious consideration. If I move into a house with a 24' deep garage I'll be even more convinced. As of now, the Sierra, whose front end I like better, simply won't fit my current garage.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/990610/ca_toyota_1.html
The LS1 is an entirely new design with heads that flow as well as overhead cam designs, but with the simplicity of pushrods.
The Toyota 4.7L DOHC is a gem of a motor, but the new vortecs manage more horsepower and better fuel economy, even in larger heavier trucks. Shouldn't that count?
The Toyota certainly does have the definitive edge for their reliability and engineering reputation for cars, but for trucks, this is not so clear, since most Toyotas are used mainly as personal use vehicles rather than the more arduous fleet duty.
Just FYI, from Yahoo Finance...
quadrunner, I'd say the 4.8L Vortec and the 4.7L i-Force are comparable in that their HP and torque are within 10% of each other. One is higher in HP; the other higher in torque. Their EPA mileage are so close, the actual mileage is likely to be again comparable.
I don't think Toyota will ever have any motor any time soon to compete with the domestic big block V8s or diesels. Toyotas are good for some light duty commercial fleet use like AutoParts and such, but, I agree heavy haulers are better off buying domestic.
yet. I have always had toyota pickups and had good luck with them. Soon I will be in the market for a new pickup, and the truck that catches my eye is this Tundra pickup. I know someone who just test drove this truck. Was told the Tundra has lots of power and has a very good ride. Need to if anyone has received a good price on this truck or is this truck overpriced.
First off, I have test drove this vehicle and like it, a lot. Just a nice ride - so now my biases are known.
"TORRANCE, Calif., June 10 /PRNewswire/ -- In its first week on the market, the full-size V8-powered Tundra pickup recorded the
fastest sales start of any new product in Toyota history."
This is great for them but...
"Launched nationally on June 1, Tundra sales tallied 4,565 units through June 7, a selling rate of 650 units per day. Demand is stronger than current supply, as Toyota
dealers report an additional 5,000 units are already on order."
Now here is where it is great for anyone wanting to buy this rig. They say above that this truck was nationally launched June 1 but they have been on the lot for 2-3 weeks before that plus their have been pre production models for test drive for a couple months. They sold less than 5,000 trucks in actuality over the past 2-3 months not in the first week. Think about it, there were some pre-sold units from those early test drives, plus all the units sold prior to june first and through the first week of June. They than state a rate of 650 per day, what a bunch of bull. It is much less than that due to them summing all sales from prior to the "official launch".
So for the sake of aurgument we won't even take into consideration the pre sold units and just say that most dealers had trucks on their lot 2 weeks before the official launch. So for 21 days they sold 4565 units or at a rate of 217 per day. Now this is at the excitement phase of sales too, right at launch so it may slow down, but extrapolate that forward and it is <80K units annually. (toyota also stated in a different release I now can't find they had 5000 pre sold tundras- so what happened)
Considering in my relatively small market place here on the west coast (portland OR) Every toyota dealership has at minimum a few on the lot, and one dealer has a dozen. If this vehicle was such a hot seller than why are there any around on lots. Well mainly cause they are unwilling to come too far off MSRP, that can't last so hold out. The more of us that do the quicker the price will fall into more closely resemble that of domestic trucks. That is not far off invoice.
Just my 2 cents...
Carl
Congratulations on your new trucks.
pstacho,
Care to share with us some info on what trim you got and what options?
marion,
How much did you pay for it?
Well, I have a 4x4 F150 and while it still runs decent I have no love for it. Haven't yet test driven a Tundra, but dwelling on it. I also have a Tacoma 4x4 TRD and love it. Still the F150 is one tough truck to beat.
and I think I'm gonna get one sometime soon.
Really excellent machine. Talked with the dealer
for about 15 minutes on ordering a Limited 4*2 and
the best they can do is $800 under MSRP. Since
they were the first dealer I ever talked number
with on a Tundra, I left with hope that I could
find some better deal later with the same or
another dealer.
One thing I forgot to do both time test driving
was starting the truck. Both times the salesmen
started it and backed it up for me. I heard from
other discussion forums that some people are
complaining about that one has to crank some
usually long time (about 5 secs) before the engine
will start. The proud owners of the new Tundra
trucks, did you ever have the same problem?
Took my first test drive recently on the Tundra. Have been very interested in buying a full size truck (currently have an '86 Toy p/u). After checking out the Tundra, the verdict is: I'm still waiting for a full size truck from Toyota worthy of spending $25K+.
The Tundra definately has many things I like about it. First V8 in a truck from Toyota, very comfortable interior (got spoiled in the camry), smooth, quiet, etc. But at 6ft, I find it a little cramped up front and next-to-impossible to get in the back.
I dont get Toyotas's mentality. They did all of this work to build a new truck to compete with American companies, then make it smaller. They most likely will not win converts used to buying (real) full-size American trucks. The only thing they end up doing is making die-hard Toyota fans like myself wish they had the option of buying a full-size truck from Toyota. If I wanted a slightly smaller full-size truck, I would have bought the T-100!
Instead of doing right the first time(or second, if you count the T-100), they downsize it slightly, probably for cost-savings to stay competitive. Unfortunately, this means that if I want to take my wife, nephew and neice skiing this year, I will still have to borrow my brother's Chevy extracab, which is large enough for 5 plus equipment.
I sure hope someone from Toyota is listening to these message boards, because a lot of them are saying the same thing.
Paul
I want a Tundra, but I have to order one and it takes 10 to 12 weeks or more.
Can you get me the dealer's number who has a Sunfire Red or Thunder gray? Will I get one for under 28K. I can't get one under 28K in MN.
Thanks.
Greg Hoppes
Quote from Citro:
"the motor in the truck is fine but the lightweight doors are a joke. The "
Doors that are light and close easily are PROPERLY aligned doors!
Doors that feel heavy and require more "push"
are out of alignment!
How do you think it would be to open a door if the truck was on its side? It would be unusually heavy. As you lean the truck back into its proper stance, the door will get easier and easier to open.
As for the brakes, you really screwed up there.
Quote from Citro:
"The tundrastill has shoe brakes in the rear, what a joke, and
no limited slip. Toyota get it together. The"
Did you even bother to see the braking results for
he Tundra? It completely outbraked the big three. The closet ruck was the Chevy.....20 feet behind!!!
Unbelievable! Even while towing and with a full load it beat them. Toyota makes absoultely THE best brakes for trucks, Ever check out the Tacomas brakes? Those are even stronger brakes than what the big three e full sizes use.
Compare the tacoma brakes to say, a f-150 or a ranger. I think you will be surprised.
the tundra offers and industry first 4 piston MONSTEr brake caliper. Thats just awesome.
If your gonna rip the tundra, rip it for its lack of manual with a v-8 , it size, and its looks.
But dont rip on toyotas engineeering, because it is always top notch and the cream of the crop.
They really, really know how to put the mechanical componenets together.
Those are the finest full size truck brakes EVER
made.
Also, the Tundra is the only Full size to use a 4 piston brake caliper! Thats some heavy duty brakes my man. Even the Dodge v10 extra cab longbed doesnt use brakes that powerful.
Considering the size of the Tacoma (especially the so-called back seat), the Tundra is cavernous by way of comparision. I've noticed the price isnt all that far behind either. About $4k less, comparably equipped (sans the V8, of course).
Ive noticed quite a few of the t-100's in this area as well(Bay Area). Was interested in buying one a few months back, until I saw the resale prices. Most 97's to 98's with 10-30K miles were selling for almost the same or more as the Tundra's MSRP.
Still, I wish Tundra had rear discs. I've messed with both discs and drums, and you couldn't pay me enough to R&R 'em d*mn shoes.
Greg Hoppes
Where I have noticed them is during hard braking on the dry when you have the steering wheel turned just a bit. The pedal buzzes. I guess I would be locking up one tire in that situation. I probably wasn't even aware I was locking a tire before.
But on a snowy mountain pass, in the past if I felt them locking, I would pump the brake pedal in an emergency. But the bottom line is if you don't have enough braking distance, you will still have a collision. But you will roll into the accident instead of sliding into it.