Something else. The amber ABS light is turned on when the ABS control module detects a fault in one of it's monitored electrical circuits. Most common are wheel speed sensor circuits, but could be anything. The only way to know for sure is to use a scan tool to retrieve the diagnostic trouble code(s) stored in the control module. Otherwise you're guessing.
Does anyone have experience with AIMCO aftermarket rotors? I've checked prices online with Autozone, and the AIMCO are the next step up in price from the basic white box rotor they sell.
I have a 2000 Ford Ranger, and with all the snow in the Northeast and the sudden changes in humidity, I noticed a sudden touch the brakes when I first start driving and it stops on a dime. So I try to use the peedle to warm them up when I'm moving and the problem goes away. I also have a Legend and and a Vigor, last yer I wrecked the Vigor, how you might ask, well when I hit my brakes, they felt like "am I ever going to stop". ABS had nothing to do with it, I DON'T KNOW. There were no skid marks at all from my car, and I wonder if the ABS prevented that. So, I guess I will always wonder if that is, "in fact" what prevented the wheels from locking up, and if it is, I beleive I would have stopped had I not had the ABS system. Oh yea, my 92 Legend brakes feel the same way. I guess I'll have to ask other Legend owners if they have similar thoughts.
Recently purchased a 92 Legend from a private owner, the passenger seat does not go back far enough for me to stretch my legs out to relax, nor can my wife. Although the rails on the floor are the same length, the driver's side will go back at least three inches farther than the passenger side seat. Are there any other adjustments that can be made on the sliding mechanism or do I have to move the complete assembly back to get what I need for leg room. I'm 5'11" and wife is 5'6", average people, I thought. My 92 Vigor has plenty of leg room for the passenger, so does anyone know what's up with this. Thank you.
the issue with the ranger brakes is rotor rust, not unusual if you ride the truck hard and put it away wet. polish off the surface with the first few brakings and you're OK. you're handling it well. it won't affect the overall life of the brakes.
if the vigor wasn't stopping, nay, not even slowing down, you lost the hydraulics. usual causes for this failure are a munged master cylinder, broken hose, or loss of fluid. this is serious stuff, whacking the parking brake while you hold the release button/lever provides emergency braking at a longer distance through the mechanical park brake linkage.
if you seemed to have no brakes, but using both feet on the pedal and trying to push it through the floor caused braking, the issue was probably loss of vacuum to the power brake system, and you were using the brakes 1950-style (plus wasting some effort pushing against power brake stuff that was broken.)
as for the seat rails, that's dependent on the car and application. this stuff has backup pads on the bottom of the floor pan so the seat remains stable in a crash and allows the seat belts, airbags, etc. to save your life where possible. I would be really, really reluctant to move the seat to newly-drilled holes a bit further back, because you lose that mounting integrity under crash stress. I'd trade it before I moved it.
I am looking for some advice. For the last year, I have been hearing a rattle (or clunk, depending on the severity) in the front end of my 1997 Olds Achieva. The clunk/rattle started after I had my brakes redone (new rotors/pads, new rear shoes, hardware, checked calipers, pistons, and master cylinder/booster -- $600 worth). I've had them checked several times since then, and had other front end components replaced (struts, strut mounts, steering rack, to name a few), and the rattle remains. Important note: the rattle disappears when the brakes are applied. The car rides well, steers fine (it ought to, after a new rack), and stops well. My question is this: could the rattle be caused by the wrong size brake pads? Is it possible that the rotors are oversized on the wheel hubs? Or is it all in my head? (The last possibility is unlikely because my wife hears it, too.) Any advice or help you can provide will be greatly appreciated. And, oh, yeah: I'm taking it back tomorrow. Good thing the work's under warranty...
I just had the brakes checked again, and the anti-rattle clip was in place. The noise is the most apparent when I drive over rough roads (not large bumps). The brake tech told me he thought it might be the strut mounts, to which I basically told him I refused to spend another dime on the strut mounts. He relayed a story about his car, in which he discussed the same problem.
Would strut mounts create such a noise? It seems like there's something going on in there that nobody has been able to pin down yet. I'm getting really frustrated with this thing, and I hope I can stumble on something that can help. Thanks!
Well, if the noise stops when you apply the brakes, and the noise is a light rattling sound, I'm still suspicious of the anti-rattle clips. They could be "in" but not tight enough. Or (gulp!) the brake pad securing pins could be loose.
Strut mounts are a pretty "heavy" sound. I presume we are talking here about a fairly "light" noise, like loose bolts in a can, not bowling balls in a washing machine. If it is a "heavy" noise, I suppose braking could cause the front end to dive, compression the struts, and taking up some slack, yes. Have you checked the bolts that hold the struts? Has anyone checked the alignment spacers in the front end, to see if they might have fallen out?
I had my Century diagnosed with a bad "hub assembly" that has the ABS sensor included in it. The ABS light would come on, most of the time at hwy speeds. I had this replaced, and the light still goes on at various speeds, but more commonly at about 65-68 mph. After the new assembly was put on I had someone check the codes, and it said speed sensor open left front. This was the wheel that was worked on. The place I had it worked on does not have a computer to check the codes. Could the "brains" in the computer be going? Anyone have anything like this happen, or can give me a clue what to look for?
wtd44: The only nearby Olds dealer has shut its doors (no Oldsmobiles left to sell), and I haven't had much good luck with a GM dealer. But the last time I had one "try" to fix my strut mounts, yes, it did cost.
Mr_Shiftright: This is more of a "clunk" than a "rattle"...yes, it is a much heavier sound than if some small piece of something were loose. The bolts holding the struts to the steering knuckle are solid, as are the strut-to-body bolts on top of the strut tower (checked the torque last night). I never thought about the alignment spacers...that's a good thought. I'll check on that and let you know.
I have a 97 VW Jetta and took it to a shop on 7/28/03 to get my 60,000 tuneup. I was actually at around 64-65,000 miles. At that service, I was informed that in addition to the other necessary services (oil filter, spark plugs, steering belt, etc) I needed new front brake rotors and brake pads. This sounded reasonable to me, and the shop even showed me my old brake pads and how worn down they were.
fast foward to today, 8 months later, and I am at 68,000 miles now. I started to hear a scraping noise every time I braked and thought it was coming from the rear brake pads. I took it to the same garage thinking it was time to replace the rear brakes now.
the shop called me back and said that it was my front brake pads and rotors again!! unfortunately I did not have my paperwork from the first time and so I wasn't 100% sure they were doing the same work. I consented and they went ahead and replaced the front brake pads AND rotors. The owner of the shop said that the sound was coming from the front because the front rotors were completely worn down, and that the rear brakes were fine...
now that I am home, i found my old paperwork and it is confirmed that they did replace the front brake rotors/pads, only about 3,000 miles ago. My father says this is unheard of and I just want to have further "ammunition" when I call the shop on monday to find out what the heck happened. Is it impossible to wear down brakepads and rotors so quickly? I only work 5 miles from home and drive a stick shift. I am not heavy on the brakes at all.
My humble opinion: 1) You've been scammed (the first or second repair.) 2) The first repair was done incorrectly, wearing out pads and rotors.
Either way, you've been cheated.
Take it to another shop for a written inspection of the current condition of the front brakes. They should be able to give a written opinion about whether the pads and rotors are a few days or 8 months old.
...and write all this out as a narrative history. I'll bet you have a case, and may need to go to (small claims?) court. In the final analysis you might consider going to a VW dealership to get the "mess" in the front brakes straightened out.
I believe they didn't replace the rotors first time, they resurfaced it and installed low quality pads which they were very hard on your rotors. So both components ate each other...
So this is another reason why I have been working my own cars. Did my wife's front brakes pads and rotors. Topnotch quality parts and all together it was $133
I would be interested in how you finally resolve this brake pad and rotor issue with your repair shop.
Your description beings up a few questions and actually touches on a few issues that are Jetta specific (I have a 2003 VW TDI with 27k ) but your VW Jetta specific issues applies to the general thread, i.e., applicable to most folks.
While you mentioned 1. the "wear rates" on the brake pads the other issue is:
2. the wear rate on the rotors.
While you might sometimes hear that Euro brake pads and rotors NEED to be replaced at the same time, it is not technically true. In the case of the VW Jetta there are specific wear parameters for 1. brake pads 2.(and/or) brake discs. To complicate matters there can be front brake pads and rotors and rear brake pads and rotors differences. (Additionally, VW Jetta technical data also indicates trouble shooting for a right front passenger position wearing slightly faster than the left side.)
In your specific case, with 3k miles on new pads and rotors, unless you somehow rode your brakes or otherwise abused them, or in less than 3,000 miles a malfunctioning caliper and/or piston condition developed (unlikely) it would seem like it falls under the category of warranty work the vendor should honor. Since they are at it, you might want to ask them to inspect the rear brake pads and rotors.
If you would like to know what the wear parameters are for your brake pads and rotors, they are in your VW shop/technical manuals or I can read them off to you. But it is to your best interest to know what they are. Once you know what they are, you can extrapolate your wear patterns and actually get better service from your vendor if you do not do them yourself.
I had a speed sensor replaced with an after market part and the light kept coming on. After great deliberation I had a "GM" part at significant additional cost installed and this seems to have taken care of the problem. Seems like this car has a "taste" for GM parts. Had the same issue with a cat converter-it would only take a GM one or the computer did not like it!
(michaelcozens) This is not only a "GM" thing. There are a lot of aftermarket manufacturers out there that make junk. It is cheep and built to stay that way ;-)
Alternators are a very good example. You can get pretty cheep remanufactured alternators at "AutoZone-type" stores that even come with a lifetime warantee. .... good thing too, you will be removing/replacing it many-many times. Personally, I feel my time is worth somthing to me so I have learned to install the best quality parts I can find. I work on my own vehicles and keep them for over 12 years.
Since this forum is about brakes, I have been replacing my own brakes since I started driving at age 16. I used to call every part-seller around and purchase the very cheepest parts I could find. The brake pads/shoes would wear quickly and leave black dust all over the wheels. The rotors would eithet rust badly or warp. NO MORE! I now use the good stuff and enjoy LOOONNGGG service life and very little black gunk on my wheels.
BTW: Most original-equipment rotors are junk. They last almost as long as the warantee if you are lucky. I have had diecent luck with "PowerSlot" brand rotors or any of the german-made ones.
My Toyota Corolla brake pedal goes down gradually and almost touches the floor after depressing the pedal for about a minutes. I have replaced the master cylinder as well as the booster, but the problem still exists. There is no sign of leaking from any of the front and back brake cyliner. All the vacuum tubes are clamped. The problem puzzles me. Do you think either the master cylinder or booster is still defected? Anyone knows an auto shop where booster test service is offered. I appreciate your diagnose.
If there are no external leaks, then the pedal sinking is almost always a defective master cylinder leaking internally. A booster won't cause it. Fluid can't be compressed, so if the pedal's going down the fluid has to be going somewhere, usually past master cylinder seals and back up into the reservoir. A defective rebuilt master cylinder isn't uncommon.
Thank you Alcan. I took your advice and replaced the master cylinder yesterday, and my observation is that I don't have the sinking pedal feeling anymore.
Another way to put it is that "new does not mean good". It is a very common mistake to assume that something that is "new" is somehow "good" at the same time. Many manufacturers have eliminated the "testing" of the final assembly. It is a simple way to reduce costs. They assume that the customers will do the testing for them and return the bad ones.
I am a professional technition and I learned over 20 years ago that a new part NEVER guarantees that it is any good. A "known good" part is farrrrr more valuable than a "new" one.
The thought process of this logic can be extended into purchasing a used car. Given the proper "eye" to identify a decent one, a used car will be significantly more reliable than a new one. It is obvious that a car with the kinks worked out of it will be more reliable than one that is nothing more than an assembly of all new (possibly bad) parts.
"Another way to put it is that "new does not mean good". It is a very common mistake to assume that something that is "new" is somehow "good" at the same time."
Both my 2001 Honda Civic and 2000 Lexus RX300 require changing the brake fluid every 30k miles. The 3rd car in the household (1992 Chrysler 5th Ave) doesn't have an owner manual. But Chilton's repair manual for the car doesn't say the brake fluid needs to be changed at all. It only mentions adding the brake fluid if the fluid level is low.
Is Chilton's making a mistake? If not, why do the newer Honda and Lexus require changing the brake fluid? What are the most likely consequences if I don't change the brake fluid so frequently?
Most brake fluid is hygroscopic. It absorbs moisture from the atmosphere through microscopic pores in the walls of the flex hoses and reservoir cap seal. Water causes corrosion of brake system components and lowers the boiling point of brake fluid.
Practicality seems to indicate that not changing brake fluid as frequently as is recommended in owners manuals is not altogether unreasonable. I presume that very few people change the fluid at any time other than when they get brake renewal services such as new pads and shoes, and rotor resurfacing or replacement.
Both my 2001 Honda Civic and 2000 Lexus RX300 require changing the brake fluid every 30k miles. The 3rd car in the household (1992 Chrysler 5th Ave) doesn't have an owner manual. But Chilton's repair manual for the car doesn't say the brake fluid needs to be changed at all. It only mentions adding the brake fluid if the fluid level is low.
Is Chilton's making a mistake? If not, why do the newer Honda and Lexus require changing the brake fluid? What are the most likely consequences if I don't change the brake fluid so frequently?
(jjpcat) Perhaps Chiltons is not the definitive answer to your vehicle-care needs ;-) Oftentimes, the Chiltons manual is just an echo of the factory recommendations.
Some automakers still try to lean on planned-obsolecense. 30 years ago, virtually no vehicle on the road lasted more than 5 years or 50K miles. Changing the brake fluid was not a big concern. In 1992, Chrysler was not owned by Damler-Benz and that mindset was still prevelant.
ALL hydrolic brake systems absorb water and will corode from the inside-out. If you plan on keepiing your vehicle for more than 5 years, replace the brake fluid regularly. (Or expect to be replacing master-cylinder and wheel-cylinders)
Also keep in mind that todays vehicles have ABS which greatly increases the complexety and cost of the hydrolic systems. Replacing the fluid is good insurance to keep things working.
I had some 60s mopars that got 150K, and a 76 buick that went 142K before I sold it. what you probably meant was 50 years ago cars fell apart quickly... no oil filters in lots of the 40s and 50s engines, you had head gasket and rod and crank issues frequently... good thing nobody made 2-hour commutes, because they'd have to dump cars annually like the salesmen did.
Our current vehicles are a tremendous improvement over the models of 50 years ago. jjpcat:: Most any car these days will go considerably further than 30K miles on brake fluid, but if your two Japanese cars call for changing the fluid, you can comply and avoid unknown complications, don't you suppose? I have always considered changing fluid when changing any brake components such as caliper pads and/or rotors. I would not worry about changing the fluid at 30K as a routine maintenance thing. But then, I almost never keep a vehicle that I buy new beyond, say, 85K miles. I hope I don't one day discover I'm pressing my luck.
(swschrad) Apparently, you never lived in Vermont. I can assure you that in the 70s, most cars rusted into oblivion within 5 years. No amount of bondo or repainting would save a vehicle from becoming a "Flintstone-mobile" and thus be ILLEGAL to register for the road. ...this 5-years was not much beyond the 50K miles I suggested above.
The Chloride used on the roads in the winter was the contributing factor to the rust.
The "good" thing about this was that the hydrolic brake system did not have a chance corrode and self-destruct. No need to change the brake-fluid because the body would be a rusted hulk long before the brakes became a problem.
in the brake fluid no matter what. after 4 years, it would definitely be red, from caliper, master cylinder, and line rust. no question about it, I had some ugly crud in 4 years in my ranger.
salt is definitely going to cut any car's life short, and we have a lot of it spread here in minnesota. I feel for your vermont wheels.
especially if top-line parts from an old-line brake specialist... wagner, raybestos, or bendix... were used. if so, she may never have to replace anything except pads again on the fronts for the life of the car. something with that many miles on it, if the repair was done as flat-rate labor, could run a little higher than normal because of extra work busting rusted parts off the car without wrecking anything else.
if the guy used dock sweepings from whatever island was above water last week, it's overpriced by about $150, and will be more subject to warpage in case of a hard panic stop or two.
But at 140,000 miles, you can't complain too much about it.
Unless - I think these cars have weak brake systems, so these type repairs might have been done, and done, and done before. Unless she has owned the car for a lot of these miles, and knows what was done before, who knows????
Price? Since I do my own work, I can't help. I did pads, rotors (cheapest China made I could find), seals, brake fluid on the front on my 94 ranger and it was about $135 just for these parts.
Calipers, at a wild guess would be about $100 for a pair. So, say about $250 for parts for her car, $200 for labor. Seems about right for someone that takes it in and says 'fix it'.
I have 105k on my front brakes (Honda OEM pads/rotors). Anyway after hard stops I sometimes get a swish swish metallic sound with the brake pedal released. If I apply it goes away and returns when I let go of brake pedal. This sound only last for about 5 minutes. Two shops said my pads were fine but rotors were rusty/rough. Anyway do you think I'm due, both shops interestingly said wait till the screeching occured?
Rust can very definitely cause noise. So noise in and of itself on rusty rotors is not a big deal.
Both pads and rotors wear. Most folks know that brake pads eventually wear down. However most folks don't give much thought to rotors. The easiest way to tell if your rotors need changing is to measure them with calipers. Honda has the wear specs for them.
Your swishing sound may be intermittent contact between the rotor and the pads. It has to do with the automatic centering effect which occurs after braking. The rotor is in a sense pushing the pads back to allow the rotor to almost free wheel in the space between the pads. The swish represents the degree to which the rotor is not quite spinning freely. The on-off nature of the sound is an indication of warp in the rotation path of the rotor.
Please, can anyone tell me if the order in wheel you change fluid from the cylinders is different for cars with ABS brakes.
It used to be, REar Right, Rear Left, Front Right, and then Front Left.
But....recently I have heard that Honda in their Service manual for ABS recommends Rear Right, Front Left, Rear Left, and then Front right to bleed the system.
I have a 02 Avalon with ABS. The service maunal says does the rear before the front but is non-specific.
Generally, the concept is to bleed the LONGEST line first, the work your way towards the shortest line. Obviously, it is best to syphon the master cylinder dry then refill with clean fluid BEFORE starting the bleeding process.. (otherwise you will be pushing cruddy fluid from the MC all the way to the bleeder nipples with the possibility of causing problems later.)
As for the pattern to use, when there are no instructions available, do the longest-to-shortest pattern. Do not forget that some vehicles have a bleeder-nipple on the ABS unit. On some vehicles, a special lever must be activated on the ABS unit before starting the bleeding process.
I have even seen some vechicles that call for a "special tool" to be used on the ABS unit to allow complete bleeding. Otherwise, the ABS unit will sense a "problem" and react by shutting down the hydrolic fluid flow.... thus preventing the bleeding process to continue.
You are correct in that some high-quality vehicles may have the X-design. This, is a significantly more expensive design because of having to run TWO seperate hydrolic lines to the rear end of the vehicle.
Most designs just run ONE line to the rear and use the front for the other (redundant) brake system.
I know that VW and other German designs have has been using the X-system for at least 20 years. I just checked one of my Honda shop manuals and it has the X-design too.
My 2003 VW has 4 seperate braking systems. (1 for each wheel) This is required for the ESP (Electronic Stabilization Program) system to function. It is quite complicated and includes at least 7 different sensors. (including a yaw sensor)... but it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to make the vehicle slide out of control even in the snow. ESP is the best safety option since the introduction of the windshield!!
Vehicle quality has nothing to do with brake hydraulic system layout, vehicle design does. Since 1967 all cars and light trucks have been required to be equipped with dual brake hydraulic systems. The master cylinder has 2 separate pressure chambers, the primary closer to the booster or firewall, and the secondary closer to the front of the vehicle. Each provides pressure to a separate hydraulic system to provide a failsafe in the event of a hydraulic pressure loss.
Almost all rear wheel drive vehicles split the hydraulic system front/rear. A failure results in front or rear brakes only, depending on where the failure occurs.
Front wheel drive vehicles have a higher weight bias on the front tires, so they use a diagonal split hydraulic system. Left front and right rear are on one circuit, right front and left rear are on the other circuit. A loss of pressure in one circuit leaves 50% of braking, one front and the opposite rear, available.
Look under any K car, Tempo, Cavalier, or just about any basic front wheel drive econo-box you can think of, and you'll find 2 hydraulic lines leading to the rear wheel brakes. This is simply a function of vehicle design (front wheel drive).
Re ABS, if the vehicle is rear wheel drive with a 3 channel system, the master cylinder front brake output splits to 2 branches, each feeding a pressure modulator for each front wheel. Rear wheels are controlled as a pair, with 1 line to the rear. If it has a 4 channel system, then the master cylinder rear output also splits to 2 pressure modulators, one for each rear wheel.
Front wheel drive 3 and 4 channel ABS systems use 4 pressure modulators, one for each wheel. 3 channel systems control the fronts independently and the rears as a pair. 4 channel systems control each pressure modulator independent of the others.
I have a 2000 Alero, v-6 with 24,000+ miles. I just had to replace the front disc brakes and two new rotors. The unusual thing was that the inside pads on both wheels wore down completely but the two outside pads looked like brand new. The repaieman said the calipers were okay and he did not know why the brake pads wore on the inside only. Does anyone have a clue? I don't want to repeat the problem with my new pads.
If there is nothing technically wrong, then I know for a fact that a few systems wear one side more than the other, usually the inside. You might want to ask that same tech if at about half the mileage (say 12,000) he would be ok with swapping the pads (outside to inside and vice versa) to even out the wear. The issue is really side pull vs center pull as on friction bike brakes of old.
Comments
if the vigor wasn't stopping, nay, not even slowing down, you lost the hydraulics. usual causes for this failure are a munged master cylinder, broken hose, or loss of fluid. this is serious stuff, whacking the parking brake while you hold the release button/lever provides emergency braking at a longer distance through the mechanical park brake linkage.
if you seemed to have no brakes, but using both feet on the pedal and trying to push it through the floor caused braking, the issue was probably loss of vacuum to the power brake system, and you were using the brakes 1950-style (plus wasting some effort pushing against power brake stuff that was broken.)
as for the seat rails, that's dependent on the car and application. this stuff has backup pads on the bottom of the floor pan so the seat remains stable in a crash and allows the seat belts, airbags, etc. to save your life where possible. I would be really, really reluctant to move the seat to newly-drilled holes a bit further back, because you lose that mounting integrity under crash stress. I'd trade it before I moved it.
I am looking for some advice. For the last year, I have been hearing a rattle (or clunk, depending on the severity) in the front end of my 1997 Olds Achieva. The clunk/rattle started after I had my brakes redone (new rotors/pads, new rear shoes, hardware, checked calipers, pistons, and master cylinder/booster -- $600 worth). I've had them checked several times since then, and had other front end components replaced (struts, strut mounts, steering rack, to name a few), and the rattle remains. Important note: the rattle disappears when the brakes are applied. The car rides well, steers fine (it ought to, after a new rack), and stops well. My question is this: could the rattle be caused by the wrong size brake pads? Is it possible that the rotors are oversized on the wheel hubs? Or is it all in my head? (The last possibility is unlikely because my wife hears it, too.) Any advice or help you can provide will be greatly appreciated. And, oh, yeah: I'm taking it back tomorrow. Good thing the work's under warranty...
I just had the brakes checked again, and the anti-rattle clip was in place. The noise is the most apparent when I drive over rough roads (not large bumps). The brake tech told me he thought it might be the strut mounts, to which I basically told him I refused to spend another dime on the strut mounts. He relayed a story about his car, in which he discussed the same problem.
Would strut mounts create such a noise? It seems like there's something going on in there that nobody has been able to pin down yet. I'm getting really frustrated with this thing, and I hope I can stumble on something that can help. Thanks!
Strut mounts are a pretty "heavy" sound. I presume we are talking here about a fairly "light" noise, like loose bolts in a can, not bowling balls in a washing machine. If it is a "heavy" noise, I suppose braking could cause the front end to dive, compression the struts, and taking up some slack, yes. Have you checked the bolts that hold the struts? Has anyone checked the alignment spacers in the front end, to see if they might have fallen out?
The ABS light would come on, most of the time at hwy speeds. I had this replaced, and the light still goes on at various speeds, but more commonly at about 65-68 mph. After the new assembly was put on I had someone check the codes, and it said speed sensor open left front. This was the wheel that was worked on. The place I had it worked on does not have a computer to check the codes. Could the "brains" in the computer be going? Anyone have anything like this happen, or can give me a clue what to look for?
Mr_Shiftright: This is more of a "clunk" than a "rattle"...yes, it is a much heavier sound than if some small piece of something were loose. The bolts holding the struts to the steering knuckle are solid, as are the strut-to-body bolts on top of the strut tower (checked the torque last night). I never thought about the alignment spacers...that's a good thought. I'll check on that and let you know.
fast foward to today, 8 months later, and I am at 68,000 miles now. I started to hear a scraping noise every time I braked and thought it was coming from the rear brake pads. I took it to the same garage thinking it was time to replace the rear brakes now.
the shop called me back and said that it was my front brake pads and rotors again!! unfortunately I did not have my paperwork from the first time and so I wasn't 100% sure they were doing the same work. I consented and they went ahead and replaced the front brake pads AND rotors.
The owner of the shop said that the sound was coming from the front because the front rotors were completely worn down, and that the rear brakes were fine...
now that I am home, i found my old paperwork and it is confirmed that they did replace the front brake rotors/pads, only about 3,000 miles ago. My father says this is unheard of and I just want to have further "ammunition" when I call the shop on monday to find out what the heck happened. Is it impossible to wear down brakepads and rotors so quickly? I only work 5 miles from home and drive a stick shift. I am not heavy on the brakes at all.
thank you.
a naive car owner
1) You've been scammed (the first or second repair.)
2) The first repair was done incorrectly, wearing out pads and rotors.
Either way, you've been cheated.
Take it to another shop for a written inspection of the current condition of the front brakes. They should be able to give a written opinion about whether the pads and rotors are a few days or 8 months old.
So this is another reason why I have been working my own cars. Did my wife's front brakes pads and rotors. Topnotch quality parts and all together it was $133
Your description beings up a few questions and actually touches on a few issues that are Jetta specific (I have a 2003 VW TDI with 27k
While you mentioned 1. the "wear rates" on the brake pads
the other issue is:
2. the wear rate on the rotors.
While you might sometimes hear that Euro brake pads and rotors NEED to be replaced at the same time, it is not technically true. In the case of the VW Jetta there are specific wear parameters for 1. brake pads 2.(and/or) brake discs. To complicate matters there can be front brake pads and rotors and rear brake pads and rotors differences. (Additionally, VW Jetta technical data also indicates trouble shooting for a right front passenger position wearing slightly faster than the left side.)
In your specific case, with 3k miles on new pads and rotors, unless you somehow rode your brakes or otherwise abused them, or in less than 3,000 miles a malfunctioning caliper and/or piston condition developed (unlikely) it would seem like it falls under the category of warranty work the vendor should honor. Since they are at it, you might want to ask them to inspect the rear brake pads and rotors.
If you would like to know what the wear parameters are for your brake pads and rotors, they are in your VW shop/technical manuals or I can read them off to you. But it is to your best interest to know what they are. Once you know what they are, you can extrapolate your wear patterns and actually get better service from your vendor if you do not do them yourself.
part and the light kept coming on. After great deliberation I had a "GM" part at significant additional cost installed and this seems to have taken care of the problem. Seems like this car has a "taste" for GM parts. Had the same issue with a cat converter-it would only take a GM one or the computer did not like it!
Alternators are a very good example. You can get pretty cheep remanufactured alternators at "AutoZone-type" stores that even come with a lifetime warantee. .... good thing too, you will be removing/replacing it many-many times. Personally, I feel my time is worth somthing to me so I have learned to install the best quality parts I can find. I work on my own vehicles and keep them for over 12 years.
Since this forum is about brakes, I have been replacing my own brakes since I started driving at age 16. I used to call every part-seller around and purchase the very cheepest parts I could find. The brake pads/shoes would wear quickly and leave black dust all over the wheels. The rotors would eithet rust badly or warp. NO MORE! I now use the good stuff and enjoy LOOONNGGG service life and very little black gunk on my wheels.
BTW: Most original-equipment rotors are junk. They last almost as long as the warantee if you are lucky. I have had diecent luck with "PowerSlot" brand rotors or any of the german-made ones.
Alland
Alland
When I'm doing diagnosis, I NEVER say "well, that part is new, so it can't be that".
I am a professional technition and I learned over 20 years ago that a new part NEVER guarantees that it is any good. A "known good" part is farrrrr more valuable than a "new" one.
The thought process of this logic can be extended into purchasing a used car. Given the proper "eye" to identify a decent one, a used car will be significantly more reliable than a new one. It is obvious that a car with the kinks worked out of it will be more reliable than one that is nothing more than an assembly of all new (possibly bad) parts.
Ain't THAT the truth!
Is Chilton's making a mistake? If not, why do the newer Honda and Lexus require changing the brake fluid? What are the most likely consequences if I don't change the brake fluid so frequently?
Thanks.
Is Chilton's making a mistake? If not, why do the newer Honda and Lexus require changing the brake fluid? What are the most likely consequences if I don't change the brake fluid so frequently?
Thanks.
Some automakers still try to lean on planned-obsolecense. 30 years ago, virtually no vehicle on the road lasted more than 5 years or 50K miles. Changing the brake fluid was not a big concern. In 1992, Chrysler was not owned by Damler-Benz and that mindset was still prevelant.
ALL hydrolic brake systems absorb water and will corode from the inside-out. If you plan on keepiing your vehicle for more than 5 years, replace the brake fluid regularly. (Or expect to be replacing master-cylinder and wheel-cylinders)
Also keep in mind that todays vehicles have ABS which greatly increases the complexety and cost of the hydrolic systems. Replacing the fluid is good insurance to keep things working.
jjpcat:: Most any car these days will go considerably further than 30K miles on brake fluid, but if your two Japanese cars call for changing the fluid, you can comply and avoid unknown complications, don't you suppose? I have always considered changing fluid when changing any brake components such as caliper pads and/or rotors. I would not worry about changing the fluid at 30K as a routine maintenance thing. But then, I almost never keep a vehicle that I buy new beyond, say, 85K miles. I hope I don't one day discover I'm pressing my luck.
The Chloride used on the roads in the winter was the contributing factor to the rust.
The "good" thing about this was that the hydrolic brake system did not have a chance corrode and self-destruct. No need to change the brake-fluid because the body would be a rusted hulk long before the brakes became a problem.
salt is definitely going to cut any car's life short, and we have a lot of it spread here in minnesota. I feel for your vermont wheels.
-pads
-rotors
-calipers
-brake fluid
The bill-including sales tax(6%)-was $464.00. Was this a "reasonable" charge?
Her car is a '95 Taurus w/ 140k miles on it.
if the guy used dock sweepings from whatever island was above water last week, it's overpriced by about $150, and will be more subject to warpage in case of a hard panic stop or two.
But at 140,000 miles, you can't complain too much about it.
Unless - I think these cars have weak brake systems, so these type repairs might have been done, and done, and done before. Unless she has owned the car for a lot of these miles, and knows what was done before, who knows????
Price? Since I do my own work, I can't help. I did pads, rotors (cheapest China made I could find), seals, brake fluid on the front on my 94 ranger and it was about $135 just for these parts.
Calipers, at a wild guess would be about $100 for a pair. So, say about $250 for parts for her car,
$200 for labor. Seems about right for someone that takes it in and says 'fix it'.
Both pads and rotors wear. Most folks know that brake pads eventually wear down. However most folks don't give much thought to rotors. The easiest way to tell if your rotors need changing is to measure them with calipers. Honda has the wear specs for them.
It used to be, REar Right, Rear Left, Front Right, and then Front Left.
But....recently I have heard that Honda in their Service manual for ABS recommends Rear Right, Front Left, Rear Left, and then Front right to bleed the system.
I have a 02 Avalon with ABS. The service maunal says does the rear before the front but is non-specific.
Can anyone give me more specific advice.
thanks.
abfisch
As for the pattern to use, when there are no instructions available, do the longest-to-shortest pattern. Do not forget that some vehicles have a bleeder-nipple on the ABS unit. On some vehicles, a special lever must be activated on the ABS unit before starting the bleeding process.
I have even seen some vechicles that call for a "special tool" to be used on the ABS unit to allow complete bleeding. Otherwise, the ABS unit will sense a "problem" and react by shutting down the hydrolic fluid flow.... thus preventing the bleeding process to continue.
The Honda instructions would then make sense, flushing each leg of the X comfiguration?
Most designs just run ONE line to the rear and use the front for the other (redundant) brake system.
I know that VW and other German designs have has been using the X-system for at least 20 years. I just checked one of my Honda shop manuals and it has the X-design too.
My 2003 VW has 4 seperate braking systems. (1 for each wheel) This is required for the ESP (Electronic Stabilization Program) system to function. It is quite complicated and includes at least 7 different sensors. (including a yaw sensor)... but it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to make the vehicle slide out of control even in the snow. ESP is the best safety option since the introduction of the windshield!!
Almost all rear wheel drive vehicles split the hydraulic system front/rear. A failure results in front or rear brakes only, depending on where the failure occurs.
Front wheel drive vehicles have a higher weight bias on the front tires, so they use a diagonal split hydraulic system. Left front and right rear are on one circuit, right front and left rear are on the other circuit. A loss of pressure in one circuit leaves 50% of braking, one front and the opposite rear, available.
Look under any K car, Tempo, Cavalier, or just about any basic front wheel drive econo-box you can think of, and you'll find 2 hydraulic lines leading to the rear wheel brakes. This is simply a function of vehicle design (front wheel drive).
Re ABS, if the vehicle is rear wheel drive with a 3 channel system, the master cylinder front brake output splits to 2 branches, each feeding a pressure modulator for each front wheel. Rear wheels are controlled as a pair, with 1 line to the rear. If it has a 4 channel system, then the master cylinder rear output also splits to 2 pressure modulators, one for each rear wheel.
Front wheel drive 3 and 4 channel ABS systems use 4 pressure modulators, one for each wheel. 3 channel systems control the fronts independently and the rears as a pair. 4 channel systems control each pressure modulator independent of the others.