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Stop here! Let's talk about brakes

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't think so unless the veering only occurs when you step on the brake...then you have a brake problem not an alignment problem.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    To more specificly answer your question... NO! incorect alignment cannot damage the brakes in any way whatsoever.

    Your question is sorta like asking if dirty carpeting can cause a headlight to burn out... there is no connection.

    HOWEVER: As mentioned in the last post, if your vehicle is veering to one side when you step on the brakes, you have either a BRAKE problem... or a sloppy suspension component (like a tie-rod-end)
  • pmckcpmckc Member Posts: 1
    I OWN A 1991 MAZDA MPV 4X4, THE PROBLEM I HAVE
    IS THE HAND BRAKE AND THE ANTI LOCK BRAKE LIGHTS ARE ON AT THE SAME TIME,

    THE LAST TIME I HAD THIS PROBLEM THE MECANIC AT THE GARAGE BLEED THE REAR BRAKES AND IT SOLVED THE PROBLEM TEMPORALY.

    IT IS BACK, WHAT CAN CAUSE THIS AND HOW TO I FIX IT. CAN I HAVE THE ANTI LOCK SYSTEM BYPASSED?
  • dreamingofmoredreamingofmore Member Posts: 4
    If your pedal travels to the floor pop the hood and look at the master cylinder and see if you have enough brake fluid it should look clear. If it's not have it changed that should fix it. If not look at the brake lines to see if anything is damaged.
  • impact_driverimpact_driver Member Posts: 8
    I have a problem with a 1998 mercury villager this being it has a very intermittent brake pedal failure as in sometimes not for a couple months then once and then not again for a long period of time (ect) have replaced front and rear brakes also rear wheel cylinders did a complete fluid change when wheel cylinders were replaced but problem persists problem is pedal will travel to floor with seeminly no brake but let up and hit again brakes fine for along time as stated earlier has been to dealership but of course it wouldnt do it dose'nt do this enough to lead me to think its the MC wondering if possibly ABS unit malfunction although throws no codes or lights any info helpful THANKS
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    bpeebles: Good call! I've been there and done that-- (speaking of worn tie rod ends, leading to wear-clearance and play, resulting in excessive torque steer.)
    impact_driver: That sure sounds like a failing master cylinder.
  • warrenulwarrenul Member Posts: 50
    I recently notice that my l left side rear pads were dragging and wore the pads down. Upon disassembly, I noticed that the brake pad was not properly aligned in the piston groove and that there was a slight residue on the piston that may have also hindered its retraction into the caliper.

    I used a little liquid penetrant and flushed it out with clean brake fluid. However, I think that the left brake caliper may still be slightly dragging.

    After driving 12 highway miles to work with using brakes minimally, the right rear rotor is warm to the touch when the other three are cooler. Is a slight brake drag normal?

    Inspection of the Caliper Pins indicated that they were greased and operating properly.

    I was not looking to rebuild the caliper at this time. However, can I go back in and coat the piston with caliper grease or use liquid silicon brake spray?

    Thanks for any suggestions.

    PS: If the rear rotor retracts only by turning it clockwise, how is it that it relieves the pressure from the piston?
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    When a caliper fails - it usually starts to "stick" and cause the pads to drag. Unfortunately, installing new pads can make this problem WORSE because when the caliper is retracted, the corroded area can bind even worse. Even calipers with plastic pistons can get "stuck" on the corroded portion of the steel cylinder.

    Since the corrosion is INSIDE the cylinder walls, there is virtually nothing you can "spray on" that would make much difference. I have personal experince with this.... Just replace the caliper and be done with it. Your time to take it all apart over and over and over to spray somthing on it is not time well spent.

    Also, the heat from a dragging caliper will burn off all the grease from the wheelbearing and can cause even more damage.

    It is NOT recommended for you to attempt to "rebuild" a sticky caliper. Make some phonecalls to some autoparts stores. Most of them have a "core return" policy wheras they will take back your old caliper. A caliper rebuilt under sterile conditions using the proper equipment will last farr longer than any "rebuild" you would attempt at home.

    Again, I have about 25 years of experince with this stuff. Dont mess around with it, just take it apart ONCE and replace the caliper.... there is nothing else you can do that will fix it. Brakes are too important to your safety to even consider anything else.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    caliper rebuilding is risky...even the best shops shy away...the success rate is about 50% unless it's done by a professional rebuild factory.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Sage advice...
    During 30 or more years of caliper heartbrake (a play on words) I have learned the same lesson: Change 'em out with rebuilts.
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    I always buy new ones. With the poor quality of rebuilt parts today it's just to risky. Plus I abhor having to do a job twice!
  • rivers1rivers1 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 97 Caravan that I replaced rotors, and drums, pads, and shoes. Brake pedal was high as expected. Brakes not bleed at this time. After a short trip to town pedal goes to floor. Brakes bled this time. Air from both rear cylinders no air from front. Short trip pedal to floor. Re bleed and same. Air from rear cylinders. I checked all brake lines before both bleeds, and no sign of leaks. The fluid level in the resevor doesn't go down. From what I can see the RH. front caliper is on the same line as the LH. rear, and LH. front on RH rear break line.

    Please help.
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    In my younger and cheeper days, I've done rebuilds. A master cylinder, a wheel cylinder (old drum brakes), and a full set of calipers on an 81 Corvette.

    None leaked as long as I owned the cars, each for several years.

    On all of these, I had a cylinder 'reamer', which is abrasive 'stones' on a drive that chuckes into a variable speed drill and hones the cylinder out. Then, new rubber parts are installed.

    The Vette calipers were especially worrisome, since there were significant 'pits' where water had accumulated and rusted the bores. But my more experienced friend that was helping felt they would hold and not leak even though we did not hone out the bore enough to get rid of the pits. And, they did not leak after assembly and for a few years more of ownership.

    Now-a-days, when I hear about 'cheep', it pertains to the foreign made rotor and calipers sold as 'new' replacement parts. But I did install the cheepest rotors I could find (Made in China) onto my 94 Ranger. This cured the warped induced braking shimmy and lasted for several years til sale of the truck.

    And, in the future I would probably replace rather than rebuild. The replacements, either new or rebuilds, including brake parts and starters, alternators, etc are about as cheep as buying the parts - bearings, brushes, seals, boots, hones, etc.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Excellent points you make. Nowadays, it seems that even experts (Alcan?) recommend new disks if you really see a need for resurfacing old disks. I did it that way on my daughter's 2004 Jeep GC, using new (high grade) NAPA disks and pads. I couldn't be happier about the results. I haven't had to rebuild/replace calipers since doing it for my father's 1978 Chrysler New Yorker, back in the late 1980's.
  • impact_driverimpact_driver Member Posts: 8
    thanks for the info (wtd44) that was the cheapestn way out of this but I didnt want to replace MC then still have ABS issue so I thought maybe someone else had this issue just for a 2nd opinion guess its off to the autoparts store for me thanks again
  • jackjensenjackjensen Member Posts: 1
    I test drove a 99 Jetta that I am thinking about buying for my daughter. Car is owned by individual, not a dealer. Loved the feel of the car except for brakes. I am used to a smooth transition as I depress a brake pedal but on this car the brakes grabbed noticeably harder after about a 2 or 3 inch depression of the pedal. What could be the problem? I have never owned a Jetta and I'm assuming this is not normal. Should I run away from this purchase or would this be a minor, inexpensive repair?
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    I can assure you this is NORMAL for VW Jetta. (there may have been some surface-rust on the rotors too)

    That is NOT a "problem" we have 3 VWs in the family and the brakes on all of them are VERY powerful. Most high-performance vehicles have powerful brakes like this. Dont forget that VW is HIGH QUALITY GERMAN ROAD CAR!!...not a ford ;-)

    After driving an automobile with excellent brakes for awhile... most other cars feel like they have whimpy brakes.

    Another thing you will notice with VW brakes, their ABS system is different than some other cars. Hit the brakes too hard on loose gravel or snow-coverd roads and the brake pedal will "vibrate" noticably. (telling you ABS is active)

    VW also uses ABS system to give you EDL (Electronic Differential Lock)traction-control by applying brakes on the wheel that is slipping. (forcing torque to other drivewheel)
  • ygyzysygyzys Member Posts: 2
    I think you have a misconception about brake feel and performance.

    Sensitive brakes do not necessarily equal better brakes.
    Saying VW is a "HIGH QUALITY GERMAN ROAD CAR" (and implying that Ford is not) is short0sighted and simple-minded.

    Some VWs are made in the USA, and Fords in Europe. Both have high and low quality examples.

    To generalize (which isn't fair, but it's generally true), Europeans prefer their brakes to be less sensitive, so they can modulate the brakes appropriate to the situation. Brakes that don't 'grab' are much easier to modulate to reduce highway speeds for instance, or to smooth out congested traffic.

    Americans, (in general) seem to complain about the brakes on European cars, so the European marques have designed the brakes differently for the US market. More mechanical advantage.

    Take a test drive in any pre-1998 Audi A6 for instance. They're certainly "HIGH QUALITY GERMAN ROAD CAR"s , but they have progressive brakes. You can stop on a dime, but you are expected to put some effort into it.

    The European outlook may be that the Americans are either too simple-minded to appreciate progressive braking (which I disagree with), or too lazy (want everything 'power' and pushbutton), or drive too aggressively in traffic (compared to Europeans).

    Try to look at things a little more open-mindedly.
    Ironically, your typical US-market VW brakes may not be very 'German' in it's performance.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    I am not aware of any VWs being manufactured in the USA since the plant in Pennsylvania shut down in the 1980s. The fact is that VW may be the most 'globaly' manufactured automobile in the world. If you were to take the time to read the federally-required sticker that lists the point of origin. The components in a VW come from at least 4 different countries.... and are assembled into an automobile in 2 others.

    Contrary to your suggestion, I am quite open-minded. I am also tained in engineering so my 'open-mindedness' about automibiles goes signicantly deeper than most folks. I see things from a mechanical point-of view. Most German-designed automobiles are years ahead of the others from that perspective. (DSG xmission, Electonic power-steering, 56 MPG diesels, 12-year/unlimited-milage corrosion warantee)

    You are correct when you say "Sensitive brakes do not necessarily equal better brakes." I was referring to the components, design and implementation of the braking system. not the perceved 'sensitivity' of the brake pedal.

    For example:
    The brakes on my VW are VERY advanced... the onbord computer can apply ANY ONE WHEELBRAKE to compensate for yaw (skidding). They can also apply themselves to force drivetorque to the wheel with the most traction. The brake system is also tied to the "fly by wire" throttle and will cut engine power under low traction conditions. (And this is just a 'lowly' VW Jetta... Imagene what the VW Phaeton can do?)

    It is possible to get this kind of technology on other automobiles... but they will not say Ford on them ;-)

    In any case, the original posters question was answered and they have no need for concern for the 'touchy feel' of the brakes on their daughters Volkswagen.
  • ygyzysygyzys Member Posts: 2
    Right - my post was attempting to shed light into why the original post's opinion is a valid preference.
    He thought the brakes on the Jetta were a little too sensitive (my words).

    Your post implied that such sensitivity is "whimpy" .
    As long as you were at it, you denigrated other marques (Ford in particular) without good reason. The sensitivity of the brakes is simply a design choice. There's no inherent benefit in being "German". Ford has used plenty of VW parts in the past, and probably still does (I'm obviously not currently mapping the automakers of the world). VW designs and builds in Brazil (among many other countries).

    I don't like baseless nationalism, or folks using honest well-though out questions to launch into brand-name snobbery.
    I'm no fan of Ford, but they don't deserve baseless cheap shots.

    Also - I've driven many cars with ABS from Honda, Nissan, Mercedes, Acura, Lexus, Chevrolet, Audi, VW, Ford and more - and in every one you feel the brake pedal vibrate when the ABS engages.
    So, what was your point about the VW system ?

    BTW - I am a professional engineer. I own a Passat 4-motion , an A6, as well as a couple Japanese and American-marque vehicles.
    And, we're aware that VW has no lock on ABS or traction control. There are many systems. They all have merits and faults. Don't let anyone fool you into thinking there is one perfect system.

    Do the original poster (and the rest of us) a favor, and don't imply that his preference (for progressive braking)is uninformed. The throttle is progressive, why shouldn't the brakes be progressive ?
    It's like describing a car's engine as "VERY powerful" simply because the throttle goes from 0 to 100% with very little displacement. It's not as safe as a progressive throttle. Same for brakes.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I'm inclined to pay attention to what Consumer Report Magazine says about VW quality. I would be quite reticent about buying one at this point in automotive history.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Consumer Reports data is based on the inputs from their SUBSCRIBERS... certainly not a rounded cross-seciton of automobile buyers. Since CR has been "pushing" Hondas for over 20 years... it is not surprising that most of their subscribers like Hondas.

    BTW: Please do not confuse QUALITY (like as seen in VW) with RELIABILITY (as seen in Honda / Toyota) The automakers use those terms interchangeably... but they are often not the same thing.

    A Honda may be quite reliable... but since they rust to the point of being illegeal, I have opted to own VWs which are backed up by the 12-year/unlimited-milage corrosion warantee. For me, it is farrrrr more important that the body lasts 12-15 years. I can replace some failed comonents... but RUST is not repairable. (I know because I have tried it ;-)

    Now-- lets get back to discussing brakes 8-)
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Reliability is one facet of what can be called quality in a vehicle, and that can include the braking system. I would say that the CR view of reliability is skewed by the group of people that tend to be the majority of owners of any particular vehicle model being reviewed. Now let's get into some objective thinking.
  • justmyluckjustmyluck Member Posts: 1
    I have a 98 Plymouth GrandVoyager and have recently replaced the front left caliper hoping to solve my sticky situation. Didn't work. I have done brake jobs many times and have never had this problem before. (help) what am i doing wrong? :cry:
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Check out your flex hose brake line on that caliper. It may have an internal obstruction that does not allow the fluid to readily leave the caliper after foot pressure on the pedal. Old flex hoses are often the culprits in conditions like (it seems) you are reporting.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Assuming that your new caliper is functioning OK (and that may be a leap of faith) It is possible that the brakepads themselves are not sliding easilly on the guides.

    I ususally install the pads WITHOUT the caliper and make sure that they can slide to-n-fro without binding. You should be able to slide the pads by hand along the guides.

    The next thing to check is that the CALIPER can slide easilly on the pins. To check this, install the caliper WITHOUT the pads and make sure it can move to-n-fro easilly by hand.

    Dont forget, modern disk brakes are called "fully floating" for a reason... the entier assembly is supposed to "float" on the guide and pins. Any binding will cause the brakes to not fully release and drag.

    Also, did you remember to file the burrs off of the guides before re-installing the pads?

    One last thought, air in the hydrolic system can act like a "spring" and keep the calipers pushed against the pads.

    (NOTE: due to differing brake designes, some of the above checks need to be done differently than I have described above)
  • deb15deb15 Member Posts: 1
    Hi

    I had a 2006 Cobalt that was doing the same thing, the last time I made a left hand turn and the steering locked and I hit a wall and total my new month old Cobalt, never buy one again
  • hjenningshjennings Member Posts: 1
    After starting my vehicle and moving foward I hear a noise under the floor board. This happens each time the vehicle is started and shifted into drive to move foward. As I move foward the noise occurs. The dealership maintenance department says this is normal and is caused by the anti-lock brakes re-setting. I have owned other vehicles with 4 wheel anti-lock brakes and have never heard any sounds coming from them. Can someone enlighten me on this subject? Is this only a KIA thing? Is there something wrong with the vehicle?
  • lorib2lorib2 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 93 Jimmy and every so often when I am driving the brake pedal becomes hard to push and I cannot brake. It does not matter at what speed but you never know when it will happen. My mechanic has replaced the power booster, master cylinder and a valve. The pressure has been checked and is fine. I have taken it off the road right now because I cannot trust it. My mechanic has been in the business 30 years and this is the first time he has come across this. Any suggests will help.
  • gonogogonogo Member Posts: 879
    They all self test on startup, yours just lacks insulation, or mounted to a part that transmits sound easily.
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    On many different makes of vehicles the ABS self-check after startup and when first moving foward can be heard and/or felt through the accelerator or brake pedals.

    This is normal.
  • bulbullbulbull Member Posts: 4
    have 1997 Nissan Maxima GLE. Failed inspection because the rear right brake had no pressure. I pulled out the the caliber and tried to turn it in. It was impossible. I used the proper tools. But it would not budge. Help. I have the caliber out and in a vise. I cut the rubber seal around the piston. I am wondering how to get it out.?
    ANY ONE Take a shot at this? Thanks
  • gonogogonogo Member Posts: 879
    About 150 psi air pressure will do it but you need to take precautions, it has to be set up so the piston is captured. A better idea is just get a new caliper assy.
  • bulbullbulbull Member Posts: 4
    Thanks, I have tried the air pressure. it did not work. I see rust between the piston and the seal.
    air pressure did not work because I donot have the proper fitting. I am tired of getting the piston out. I was trying to save some money. It seems that diy failed this time. A remanuf caliber is in the range of $90 to $160 with the core. so I'ill go and buy it. thanx all
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    That's your best option. You need an air fitting with a rubber end on it to make a seal on the hose bore on the caliper, and even then if you got the piston out the piston bore is probably damaged by the rust.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Even in the best of shops, the success rate with caliper rebuilds on the bench is not very high.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Rubber tipped air gun tools are not very expensive, and every home auto shop compressor user should have one. And I agree that buying a new caliper is the answer in this case.
  • eltonbeltonb Member Posts: 2
    My wife has a '97 Pontiac Sunfire with drum brakes on the back. When her parking brake is pulled all the way up, its doesn't stop the car whatsoever.

    Last night I looked on the back side of the drum to see if there was a rubber boot to pop out so I could manually adjust the shoes, b/c obviously backing up and stopping wasn't adjust them.

    I didn't see a mechanism for adjusting the parking brake neither inside the drum, nor on the cable linkage, nor on the hand brake under the console.

    I adjusted the shoes as tight as I could without binding the drum up.

    The hand brake when pulled up, still pulls all the way up as if the shoes aren't pressing as hard as the should be against the drum, but adjust the shoes did help a little bit.

    How to adjust the parking brake? Although the shoes looked OK, do I need to just get new shoes which will have thicker linings and a new drum?

    Could the parking brake cable just be that far stretched out?
  • gonogogonogo Member Posts: 879
    Try applying the parking brake on and off about 10-15 times, that is suppose to be the adjustment. I have had to replace the shoes to get a good parking brake.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    If you have not been using the parking brake EVERY time you park... it is likely that the cables/mechanism are sticking.

    The only REAL way to fix is to PM the rear brakes.

    PM= Preventive Maintainance
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Your parking brake activation cable may be stretched. It can happen.
  • mmorg29mmorg29 Member Posts: 1
    For the past two months, my 94 Blazer has shown an ABS light. It will extinguish after a few miles of driving. I also get a periodic hard brake pedal and stopping performance like I am on ice. I hear a "whine" from near the front left wheel when it locks and the brake pedal shimmies. On more than one occasion I have had to use the emergency brake to get car stopped. Mechanic says it was a bad right ABS sensor and replaced but three days later the problem is back. Any ideas what is going on?
  • richardsonrichardson Member Posts: 92
    Can anybody tell me if this car has floating or hubbed rear drums? I'm having a devil of a time trying to get them.
  • sbronssbrons Member Posts: 2
    i bought a 1998 Dodge Ram 2500 Van and had new brake pads rotors done ... the front driver side squeals when applying brakes ... after investigation by the mechanic who installed them he noticed a piece of metal ( bent into a shape that goes around pins etc ... ) that was sticking out and rubbing on the inside of the tire rim ... he has since replaced the pads and "sliders" and it resuned its sqealing after 10 minutes of driving ... why does this slier move to the point of rubbing on the tire rim?
  • sbronssbrons Member Posts: 2
    i bought a 1998 Dodge Ram 2500 Van and had new brake pads rotors done ... the front driver side squeals when applying brakes ... after investigation by the mechanic who installed them he noticed a piece of metal ( bent into a shape that goes around pins etc ... ) that was sticking out and rubbing on the inside of the tire rim ... he has since replaced the pads and "sliders" and it resuned its sqealing after 10 minutes of driving ... why does this slier move to the point of rubbing on the tire rim?
  • bartender2bartender2 Member Posts: 2
    i just bought a 1992 sed deville and can not get brake fluid to the left ft or rt rear, it has ABS could this be electricial? can anyone tell me how to diconnect antilock system. Darren
  • fordhorrorfordhorror Member Posts: 20
    My 93 volvo is squealing on the front, and the steering wheel vibrates while applying brakes. The mechanic says my pads are 75% good, but my rotors may be warped. Am thinking of getting pads and rotors changed, is it advisable to buy these online (its a little lesser that way).
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I would strongly suggest that you go to a local NAPA store and look into their "premium" grade pads and rotors.
  • glags11glags11 Member Posts: 8
    Just leased a brand new 06 envoy..after driving for 2 days i've noticed the brakes squeaking very loudly right before the truck stops and then again right after I press the gas. This happens for about 5 or so seconds each time i break and press the gas, then it stops. Sometimes this squeaking continues when i am driving as well. Any one have any ideas as to why this is happening? Thank you.
  • cgiblincgiblin Member Posts: 2
    I'm getting noise/pulsation @ brake pedal as I approach a complete stop in either forward or reverse. Feels/sounds as if ABS system is energizing, even though conditions don't warrant activation. Ideas, suggestions, etc.? 1996 Olds 88 LS w/80,000+ miles.
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