Stop here! Let's talk about brakes

Mr_Shiftright

Belts usually squeal if they are a)loose or b) glazed from slipping too much, so that even tightening won't help anymore.

fordhorror

thank you sir.

fordhorror

Is it just me or there is any other soul here thats happy because ford is bringing the TAURUS back....
My first was a taurus and my 2nd was a SHO....!!
I got a mustang now but always atop to check out a taurus...
they have changed design so many times....although the 500 looks good..
I need to go to the mustang forum to complain on the new mustang-based interceptor design...
later...

anitap

I just had brake work done on my car replacing the routers and pads. When I make a left turn or apply the brakes in a left turn I hear this high pitched squealing sound. Can anyone give me any info on this problem?

bolivar

Take it back, it shouldn't do this.

Guesses - didn't put 'clips' in or in correctly or entire rotor is not tightened down correctly.

anitap

I called the machanic that did the brake job for me and since I picked up all the parts for the job myself, he told me that I needed to purchase a better grade of brake pads and that should take care of my problem.Do you think that would help or should I just insist that he take my brakes apart and look for another possible cause before I go and get new pads?

Mr_Shiftright

if you provided the brake pads, then you should pay him to fix the squeal. It may not be due to your pads but then again it might. In any event, asking that he take possible responsibility for your parts isn't really fair. But of course, he might do it as a favor, that's something entirely different.

bpeebles

Gee -- your brakes are not even seated in yet.... give it some time befoere you condider the "squeel" a problem.

Dont forget to follow the procedure for seasoning the rotors before bedding the pads. If you do not season the rotors 1st, you may experience less than optomal brake performance.

As a reminder... here is a link which describes seasoning the rotors before bedding the pads. http://www.shotimes.com/brakes/part1.html

eurocar01

I also use the same brake bleeder and love it,did a complete brake fluid flush in under 30 minutes. I found mine at the location below:

http://www.speedibleed.com

eurocar01

"No. You're referring to manual bleeding. Pressure bleeders work by pressurizing the master cylinder reservoir to push fluid through the system. This is the one I use"

http://www.speedibleed.com/products/completekit2.php

I use the same brake pressure bleeder also and love it. When I phoned them they told me about some newer DIY kits that will be available soon on their website at

http://www.speedibleed.com

vamom1001

I have a mazda MPV.. 02. Since the Fall I have been wrestling with a persistent brake issue. First thing in the morning.. or if the car has sat for a long time.. my brakes seem to be almost frozen.. they are so stiff I practically have to stand on them.. after a few minutes of pumping them they depress and act tlike normal. I checked my car manuel and they said that if this happens it is typically that you need additional brake fluid. So I went to my local garage.. they flushed the lines, replaced the fluids and did a spot check of the brakes themselves to verify that they were fine. Problem still persisted so I took it to the dealer... they said it had to do with the brake lines deteriorating.. replaced that and the front rotors... still had problem... took it back.. this stime they kept it over night and encountered the problem..said it was some sensor that was off..(something about the brakes thinking that the engine was still shifting)..seemed fixed for about 2 weeks.. no the problem is back. Same thing really stiff first thing..if I pump the brakes then all of sudden my brake will depress like normal and it will be fine again.... Does anyone have any idea what is wrong..I have lost faith in my dealers ability to diagnose this but I have to bring it to them so I can recover under my warranty... Thanks for any advise you give me in advance!!!

Mr_Shiftright

I would definitely check the power brake booster. The idea of "needing brake fluid" makes no sense to me whatsoever as a cause for this symptom. Plugged up brake lines or crimped brake lines was a decent guess--one gold star...new rotors makes no sense to me either however, so give us back that gold star.

The hard pedal would indicate either loss of power brake vacuum to the booster (a leaking vacuum line to the booster?) OR a jammed up relief valve in the master cylinder itself.

Don't know about this "sensor" thing, not sure what they are talking about...maybe an ABS issue? I guess ABS problems are a possibility.

donnal

I have a 2001 Jetta. Last week I brought the car in for service - new front brakes (pads/rotars) and tire rotation. The next day while drivng the brakes locked up causing tires to overhead/smoke coming out of tire area. Brought it back to dealership. At first they said they could not find a problem but after driving it on the highway, it locked up for them. They uninstalled and reinstalled the new brake pads/rotars and said it was fixed. Within 2 days brakes starting locking up again and overheating. What would cause the brakes to lock?

kiawah

The calipers could have corrosion in them, which is now binding the piston. You have to squeeze the pistons back in when you replace the brake pads, so there is clearance for the thicker pad. Any corrosion that is inside, now binds up the piston. The pistons stick and do not float back when you take your foot off the brakes, resulting in the brakes being on all the time. They overheat, smell, and wear down in a couple thousands miles. You're probably going to need your calipers replaced, not sure why your dealer didn't get to that conclusion when you brought it back in second time.

bpeebles

Over the years, I have seen several times wheras some calipers will "stick" ONLY when hot.... after sitting for awhile, they work perfectly.

The remidy is the same either way... Replace the calipers. There is no way to "fix" stickey caplipers that will last very long.

taztang68

I just had the fuel service done, and an overall inspection of our 96 Neon highline, and when I got it back, it almost felt like I had 4-wheel drive on it when I hit the brakes (brakes shuddered when held down.) Started being noisy, but didn't/doesn't squeel, it's more like a "rough road" kinda sound. (front brakes got hot, but weren't smelling)
Today, it started to make the godawfullest noise, first only when I hit the brakes, later just when the wheels were turning, like it was rubbing metal to metal, and it didn't feel like I had ANY breaks when I got it home.............. Any suggestions I can take to the dealership tomorrow (other than some I can't print, and probably shouldn't tell them about anyway if I want this fixed)? I'm wondering if they maybe didn't put the wheels/brakes back on right?

Thanks!

bpeebles

Overheated brakes (due to dragging pads) will get soooo hot that they will not even work when you push the brake pedal.

Installing new pads necessatates pushing the caliper pistons back into the cylinders. Oftentimes, with old calipers, this causes the calipers to "stick" and not release the brakes when you let go of the brake pedal. This it the first thing I would look for.

The only real fix for this condition is to REPLACE the calipers. It is NOT the fault of the mechanic.... just old calipers.

Of course, there are other possibilites - let us know how it works out for you.

okko1

did this inspection cause the tech to remove or rotate wheel positions and have you raise the vehicle to check wheel torgue. were any repaires made

malibu013

I own a 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass 442. It has an aftermarket small diameter power booster and new master as well as a new proportioning valve. The brakes "work" that is, there is plenty of pedle and they're not spongy, but are quite hard to apply. The cam is a fairly aggressive hydrolic grind but the vacuum appears reasonable at idle. Would the larger factory style power booster help with this? I've heard the larger booster may offer more "leverage". Is this true?

bpeebles

Yes -- All else being equal, a larger diameter diaphram will provide more "power assist" to your brake-pedal.

If your new master cylinder differs from the original in piston-size, this will also be a factor in your brake-pedal effort.

malibu013

Thanks, bpeebles. I had not even considered the master cylinder piston size; will check this.

psepeda

On a 2005, Mazda3, when installing new rear disc brakes, do you just push the piston back into the caliper or is there an other way to get it back in. I tried pushing it in but it wouldn't go in.

askperry

Bpeebles, Thanks very much.

Sorry for the late response. The email got caught in my spam filter. I just found because I bought a new version of Norton ISS.

I had to adjust the rod to the very end. Actually, I turned it until the first thread on the nut showed. It still has some slack in it before the brakes engage, but its a lot better...maybe 90% better.

Thanks again.

askperry

The problem existed when I bought the car, but I bought the car used. It didn't bother me too much until I took off the cheap tires it had and bought better tires. The tires had so much grip that it was hard to lock them up...meaning I wasn't getting as much power out of my brakes as I should have. Yes, I know you should lock up your brakes, but the system should have enough power to do so.

Perry

bolivar

Not sure about your car, but on many rear disk brakes, the piston must be screwed back into the caliper. There is a little tool sold to help do this.

stockjeeper

I noticed it when it was extremely hard to get up to speed on the highway. then i turned onto a gravel road and spun out of control into a ditch because my front brakes were so tight. with much effort i made it home. The next morning everything was fine. but a few days later on the highway my jeep pulled hard to the left for no reason and i noticed a rubber burning smell, I pulled over and my front brakes were smoking. after a while of sitting there they became normal again. I haven't got a clue. hoping someone could help me find a solution.

burdawg

Have the brakes been worked on recently? The front brakes on YJ jeeps have bushings for the pads that are selected when the pads are installed. They come in various thickness, and you select the right ones when installing the pads by checking the clearance between the pad backing plate and the caliper. If bushings that are too thick are installed, when the brakes heat up (like the conditions you describe), then the pads won't retract and will overheat and expand, causing the conditions you describe.
Of course it could also be caused by a bad caliper with a stuck piston, but then it would most likely be that way all the time, not just when the brakes get heated up to normal operating temperature.

wlbrown9

Different Jeep, but one of the problems with the WJs (Grand Cherokee) '99-0x?) was the caliper slide pins, whatever they are called. They would bind up and keep the pads on the rotors, heat up and cause problems like you were having. IF that is the case (don't know if the Wranger calipers are similar) lubricating the slide pins 'might' help. One other option to check.

stockjeeper

I herd from an old jeeper that it was most likely to be my caliper. I know every part of my jeep except the brake system(and of course that is what is giving me problems). I will check that. thank you for your help. I know that the early 90s cherokees are built the same way as my model. I had a girlfriend that had a 91? laredo (we did a lot of work on it!). well looks like its time to break out the good ol repair manual! haha

njinman

Replaced the front rotors, calibers and brake pads on my 2004 Chevy Malibu Maxx with 60,000 miles. Bled the brakes and noticed the old brake fluid was dark green in color?? I have maintained the car exclusively and this is the first time the brakes have been touched since new, except to top off the brake reservoir with fresh DOT 3 brake fluid so this had to come from the factory this color. The only other brake fluid I could find was hydraulic system mineral oil brake fluid (HMSO) which is green but supposedly incompatible with DOT 3. Owners manual and top of brake reservoir specify DOT 3. What gives?

paisan

They can put a die in it. We use ATE Superblue racing fluid which is Dot 3, 4 and IIRC 5.1 compatible on our cars. What we usually do actually is alternate between SuperBlue and regular "clear" fluid when we do a flush. This is a very easy way to know when you've cleared the line of all the fluid that is old.

-mike

njinman

Thanks Mike, for the reply and the tip. I have heard of ATE Superblue racing fluid, but the green color I was getting had me puzzled. I just wanted to be 100% sure before going ahead and power bleeding the entire system with fresh DOT 3 brake fluid.

-Perry

ampete

This one has me baffled. I have a 95' Buick lesabre with 330,000 miles. The ABS light goes off & on when I hit a bump in the road. Took it to a mechanic and he said the wheel sensor is going bad but the brakes are ok. Now when I run my air conditioner, my brakes will sometimes get too hard to push down and I can barely stop. They are fine when I don't have the air on. Any answers for this one??

burdawg

I think your looking at two different things here. The explanation for the first problem sounds reasonable to me. Your second problem is probably a bad vacuum leak somewhere in the climate system that leaks when it's on, and depletes the vacuum available for the power brake booster. Even though the vacuum source for the brake booster should have a one way check valve, it won't take but a few brake applications to deplete the vacuum in the booster if there's not a good supply.

dchen2003

I have a 03 camry LE(4 cylinder, front disk, rear drum). This car only has 30k on it. After a 500 mi travel on freeway I am concern about the brake. I have to step on the pedal at least half way to the end to feel the brake force. It is ok for city driving, but it is kind of scary on free way when you need to stop from 60-0. I am not sure it is just happen to my camry or all other camry have the same problem. I test drive my friend's 00 V6 camry (front, rear disk) the brake is much better than mine. I check the brake fluid, it is at normal level. Is there any way to improve the brake or adjust the brake pedal. Because this car already out side of the warrantee, do I need to go to the dealer or just go to a shop like Midas.

Thank you for your information and suggestion

burdawg

What condition are the front pads in? I doubt if the rear shoes need to be replaced, but at 30K it's very likely it needs front pads.

paisan

It's most likely a brake flush you need. A full flush of the fluid every 2 years is required. Also at 30k you probably need pads too.

-mike

okko1

you might try checking the rear brake adjustment as this will directly effect how much brake pedal you have

bigdaddy81

i have a 98 envoy. about a month ago my drivers side front hub went out. went to autozone and purchased a new one installed it perfectly. now about a month after the abs light came one and stays on. took it in they told me it was the speed sensor and the wiring harness as well as i need to replace with updated hub. what of this sound right?. hubs new and it appears to have speed sensor permantly atteached. on the oem hub the sensor was removeable. also what can i expect when it comes to replacing my intake manifold gasket on this rig

dtownfb

Is possible it could be a differnt hub that needs replacing?

Intake manifold gasket - $600-$900 depending on if it is done by dealer or independent shop.

bigdaddy81

i took it to the local vendor and they told me it was the same hub i replaced, as far as the intake i can't afford to take it to a dealer and i don't have any issues doing it myself, i was just wondering what to epect as far as how long it should take and how envasive it gets

jipster

A new brake business (Brakeway) has opened 8 stores in the Louisville area. For $99 they install front and rear premium pads or shoes, resurfance rotors, pack bearings and complete brake inspection. All warranties include parts and labor. Sound too good to be true?

shipo

And then there's the fine print...

Metallic and semi-metallic brake pads extra.
Ceramic brake pads extra.
Low dust brake pads extra.
Rotors and drums will only be resurfaced if they meet certain criteria. New rotors and drums are extra.
Dot 4 brake fluid extra.
Foreign cars extra.
Electronic wear sensors extra.
Brake pads with wear tabs extra.
Brakes with anti-squeal backings extra.

And the list goes on…

Best Regards,
Shipo

jipster

Well, one should already know that ceramic, metallic brakes would be extra... as well as the other stuff you mentioned. Can't turn a rotor due to liability issues if it's too thin. Any brake, muffler, car repair facility will try to upsell, no surprize there.

But, no... there is no "fine print" in the ad. They do run a LOUD SCREAMER ad on the radio that is a real turn off... almost as loud as Kia's radio ads. :sick:

Mr_Shiftright

It's just a way to get you in the store to sell you more stuff, to say nothing of the junk pads they will put on the car for that price. The word "premium" has no meaning--it's like "luxury" or "special". There is no industry standard for "premium".

paisan

Well, one should already know that ceramic, metallic brakes would be extra... as well as the other stuff you mentioned. Can't turn a rotor due to liability issues if it's too thin. Any brake, muffler, car repair facility will try to upsell, no surprize there.

But, no... there is no "fine print" in the ad. They do run a LOUD SCREAMER ad on the radio that is a real turn off... almost as loud as Kia's radio ads.

Also it's kinda funny, because almost all brakes on cars these days have squeeler tabs and anti-squeek backings. So basically they are offering this service for a car brake pad that doesn't exist or only exists in <1% of the cars on the road.

Scam....

-mike

0patience

Well, there is no fine print, because they go by the standard that their "brake job" is pad replacement and "resurfacing" the rotor.
Understand that there are several interpretations of "resurfacing" the rotors and not all of them involve turning the rotors. Some use ball hones and are pretty worthless.

Their brake pads are more than likely 30,000 mile quality brake pads.
The kind you buy at the parts store for $18, they probably buy them for $6. And one can assume that they come in a plain white box.

So you think you are getting a good deal for $99?
Let's break this down for say a 99 Lumina.
My customer's prices for same job, better quality parts.
Front Break pads Metallic $19.99
If I like you, I can get them cheaper.
Turning the rotors using a professional on the vehicle lathe. $30.00
If rotors need replaced, $30 each.
Labor to replace front brake pads 1.0 hours.

So my price for the same job would be with in $30 of their "special".
Would I do that same job? No.
I don't do cut rate jobs like that.

There is more to brake jobs than replacing the brake pads and resurfacing the rotors. Inspection of all moveable parts, flushing the brake fluid and bleeding the system of any air should be a standard and you will find that quite a few high quality shops include this in their labor and materials (some may call it incidentals) charges.

paisan

Very few places bleed or flush the brakes. I've never seen it done, even during a 30k service which requires it, most dealers will skimp on that because it's not something the customer can see.

I agree though, if you want a $99 job you will get $99 worth of a job. Being in the brake business, I could do it but I wouldn't, our brake jobs cost anywhere from $250 up to $500+ depending on what services are done, what level of pads are used, etc.

-mike

shipo

I'm not sure that I've had a car in the last twenty-five years what I would be able to do a brake job myself for $99.00 per axle much less $99.00 for all four corners. That said, I cannot remember the last time I did a brake job without putting on new rotors as well, so maybe part of the high cost is of my own doing. Even still, brakes aren't something to trifle with, and to my way of thinking, buying a 4-Wheel job for $99.00 is just begging for trouble.

Best Regards,
Shipo

0patience

Most of my brake jobs involve rotors, pads and flushing the brake fluid. About half the time, I recommend caliper replacement, just because a caliper shows signs of hanging up. If they refuse the calipers, then I let them know that if they have premature wear on the pads, the warranty will be void.

In my area, the humidity pushes 90%+ most the time, so moisture is a problem.
So brake flushing is a needed thing.