Honda Pilot 2003 through 2005

nofeer

Where do you see the white in EX trim? is there a link?

How do you that use a laptop for nav set it up and place it. does it talk to you and where do you place it. I've got a company laptop (dell 15in screen) so if my wife wants in indash cd changer i can't get my nav, so i need options. Would this then be the better way to go with nav (if you already have a windows laptop) or get it from factory.

tow kit--what about after market units, i have a utility trailer less than 1000 lbs max.(i use to transport my dog, and snowblower, stuff from lowe's) If this is like the ody, why not an after market tow hitch, now i just need to know if and where it can be installed...$700 is steep. My last tow hitch i had installed was around $225 (granted no trans cooler or radiator cooler but it works for a small trailer.

The sand colored pilot on its site, which color is that, and will it be delayed till august?

nofeer

First drive in a recent car mag loves it, softer ride than the mdx, quiet etc.
They feel the competition is the trailblazer, explorer, Highlander. 2.5 inches taller than the HL, slightly smaller than the explorer but more interior room.
For me the only competition is the Highlander (quality issues and resale value) butthe HL doen'st have NAV or a 3rd seat and is smaller also the mag says HL is more $$$.
Does the HL have NAV for '03 this fall

This will be one hot tamale for sales, and put big pressure on MDX HL and others. Does the MDX with NAV get the in dash cd changer? WHen comparing $$$ a pilot ex leather with nav will be about 5-7k less than the MDX but the mdx can get memory seats and wood grain interior.

paisan

Laptop: I use Delorme Street Atlas. It has voice recognition and speaks your turns. There are several mounts you can buy or there is a "how-to" in the "how-to" section of http://isuzu-suvs.com on how to build one for under $50. I find it far more useful than one that is built in from a car company, more versitile, upgradable, etc.

towing: For a trailer of 1000lbs I'd personally just get an aftermarket hitch, but check the owner's manual. If it states you need to have the "tow-package" for any trailerweight, putting a hitch on from aftermarket *could* (but depending on your dealer/situation) void part of your warrranty. Some companies only require the package if you tow above Xlbs.

Competition: The Kia Sorento is gonna be a contendor in this market very soon as well. Not sure of Nav, but volume-wise it will be close and it's gonna have a full frame, 3.5l engine and about 250hp. Also if you don't need 7 pass seating the Axiom is very close as well.

-mike

jay_24

a 4500# boat is big, and probably not as areodynamic as a popup camper thats 3500#. And yes the popups are getting to that weight. They even have sideout units like the big travel trailers.

Thing is I have a 2000# camper. You add 5 people plus stuff for the trip and you have another 1200# or so. Your now at or very near 3500# but not near 4500#.

--jay

paisan

Don't forget how these numbers work. You have to take the tounge weight (usually 10% of the trailer weight) and add that to the weight of your passengers/cargo (in vehicle) and that needs to be deducted from the total cargo weight on the vehicle. So your 1200# of people and gear + 200# tounge weight equals 1400#, this cargo capacity doesn't relate in any way to the weight of the trailer you pull. If you take a 3500# camper you would add 350# to the cargo/people weight.

On the boat v. camper, if the camper has a profile like a boat (like a popup) then I'd probably not worry about hitting the 4000# or 4500# mark. Axles on trailers are generally rated at no more than 3500lbs each, so to get over 3500lbs on a pop-up would require a dual axle trailer, haven't seen many of them around, which leads me to believe that most if not all pop-ups are less than 3500lbs.

-mike

moonkat

nofeer:
What/where is this first mag article you refer to???

Also second paisan's recommendation of "delorme Street Atlas" (I have both SA, and MS S&T). The SA allows trips to be uploaded to my gps receiver, which I use standalone. The device has allowed me to say "I never have to ask for directions"......I just don't know where I'm going.

I have connected a laptop on long trips, and in my Ody it fits nicely on the shelf between the front seats with the monitor reclining on the dash like a huge flat screen.

Don't know about Travroute software, but isn't it pricey, like $500? SA and MS S&T are both sub $30.

mark189

I have used the Traveroute software for almost 2 years, mostly on vacations. It also has voice recognition. It works great, and is far better than Street's and Trips desktop software, with their "proceed .5 miles on frontage road, to local access road...." directions. It will automatically recalc if you take a wrong turn, and advise you (with a synthesized voice) of future turns. I wouldn't take a trip without it now. If you already have a laptop, the cost of the software is relatively inexpensive. On the other hand, $2,000 for navigation is difficult to justify unless you work on the road and would use it daily. The tradeoff is even a laptop is a little clumsy to fit. The best bet is for the passenger to place it on the floor in front of them.

wmquan

Mind sharing which magazine it was? I don't know if I like the sound of a softer ride than the MDX. The MDX has a ride that is slightly firm but not marshmallowy and certainly not uncomfortable (many have called it a near-ideal balance between ride comfort and handling). The penalty for a softer ride is more body roll.

I'd imagine one reason for a softer ride could be the tire size and maybe the type. Perhaps Honda has tuned the suspension slightly.

I agree that this vehicle will put a lot of pressure on the Highlander. A lot of folks will cross-shop it. The Highlander has some nice attributes (e.g. VSC), but so far you can't get it with nav. The Pilot has "5+3" seating, as someone here so eloquently put it, which is better than "5+0" seating. Not to mention more cargo room.

(Yes, the MDX Touring or the MDX Touring with Nav both come with the 6-disk, in-dash, magazine-less CD changer. It's a terrific feature.)

mark189

I'm more concerned about the lack of side curtain airbags (or some type of head air bag) than luxury add-ons. This is an important safety feature already offered by some of the competition, including the Explorer and Pathfinder.

Below is a link to an article on the iihs.org site regarding side impact crashes (which kill 10,000 people a year), and the benefit of head air bags.

http://www.hwysafety.org/news%5Freleases/2000/pr121400.htm

jay_24

Mike,

Agree the tongue weight does play an issue with the rear axle and how much its rated for.

However cargo capacity does play into the towing. A vehical has a GCWR (gross combined weight rating) this is basically:
vehical + trailer = GCVW.
so if the GVWR is 8000# the vehical empty is 4500# and the trailer is 2000# I can add 1500# of people and cargo. If the trailer is 3000# I now have only 500# of cargo and people.

Honestly I never new much about this stuff until a week or so ago when I bought my camper. I learned alot from multiple web sites and message boards about towing campers.

--jay

paisan

Oh right, the GCWR. Is the GVWR 8000lbs on the pilot? I'm used to GVWRs of frame-based vehicles which usually out-weighs what you could pack-in + trailer.

Also I would check for trailer ratings of your vehicle outside the US. Amazingly most if not all vehicles have a higher tow rating outside the US because the ones sold here want to make sure that they don't get sued. For instance my trooper is rated at 5000lbs here for towing, in the UK, Japan, and Australia, it has 7500lb towing with the same setup. (engine, suspension, etc). Thank the lawyers for the lower tow capacities

-mike

joepugs

Check out this advertisement I got for the Pilot

http://adcontroller.unicast.com/upload/hnda/pilo/hnda_pilot1_a_300_Primedia_-rend_html_ad_doc.html

wmquan

I think Side Curtain Airbags, or some form of head protection, is important in vehicles. However, IMHO, I do believe their use in higher-riding vehicles is somewhat overrated. That's not to say that I don't want them, I'd rather have them and would pay extra for them anyway. Just that they don't add as much safety benefit as one might think.

The reason is simply that if you're sitting up higher, the risk to your head is significantly lower. Even if you're in a sedan, and you get hit on the side by another sedan, the head injury is not usually significant.

While NHTSA does NOT test head injury in its side impact tests, EuroNCAP does (www.euroncap.com). If you check their site, you'll find that generally, a car getting hit by another car in the side doesn't cause significant head injury. This is true for vehicles with and without head protection. Even when the head hit the door sill, there was not a very high potential for injury.

It thus follows that if one is riding higher in an SUV and gets hit by a sedan, injury potential is distributed even lower than if one was in a sedan. That's why many SUV's easily score 5-stars in the NHTSA side impact tests. If the SUV gets hit by another SUV or a minivan, the injury forces are distributed higher, but probably not to the head.

In fact, that IIHS article you mentioned has to resort to "the pole test" to test the head protection airbag. E.g. an SUV losing control and sliding sideways into a telephone pole. IIHS had to resort to this type of test since an SUV-into-SUV test wouldn't have produced the type of head injury they want to point out.

I don't question that the pole scenario can happen, but I have to wonder how frequent this scenario is, relative to full-frontal, offset-frontal, rear-enders, and vehicle-into-the-side impacts.

Side curtains also don't help children much. If you look closely, they have a "sweet spot" and very little cushioning toward the edges. A child's head wouldn't hit that spot in many cases.

Thus I think side curtains are somewhat overrated. Though again, I'd rather have them than not have them. And I would, personally, not buy another lower-riding sedan without them. In the case of a sedan, the concept of a tall SUV or minivan plowing into the side does invite large head injury. NHTSA's side impact tests do NOT illustrate a higher vehicle hitting you; their barrier is roughly the size of a smaller sedan.

dimaria

I ordered an EX-L in Silver or Black on March 5, 2002. I just got a call from my dealer. He said my car was on his delivery sheet for this month. He will call when it comes in. He said it should be in by the end of May. I thought that the offical launch date wasn't until June 10?

sailing216

not sure of the exact Pilot kick-off date, but if it's like the MDX, they start selling them, then 2 weeks later the dealerships all have a customer night for them to check the Pilot out, test drive, and have snacks and drinks. The MDX was by invitation only and the dealership had one of each model to test drive and they had champagne while you waited. Honda will probably only have Coke, LOL, but it may go this route.

I was #6 on a list of 17 people waiting(as of 3 weeks ago), I called today and changed from Silver exl to the first to wait for Sagebrush. As soon as the commercials hit the airwaves, I think the whole Oddy waiting game will become a reality (4-6mo wait) for the Pilot. $500 can be knocked off a MDX now, wonder about the barganing of the Oddy in a few months (not that it matters to me).
Any idea of if the Leather is Heated? What about the Oddy and CRV for comparison?

sbcooke

With people talking about May delivery, when is Honda expected to release pricing details? It seems a little excessive to be holding back information this late in the game.

robr2

Honda is famous for holding back information for as long as possible. Pricing info will probably be released about 2 weeks prior to official introduction.

As for their holding back info, just think about this - there is a new Accord coming out this fall. No info - afaik, not even a spy photo has been shown of their bread and butter product. They like to keep us guessing.

mark189

The test on the site I linked has a pick-up truck hitting a sedan and causing impact likely to result in death, according to their analysis. The dummy's head actually hit the hood of the truck. In their second test, with a side curtain air bag, low forces were recorded.

That's not the same as a higher riding vehicle. However, if the truck hits an SUV lower (than it does the sedan), the driver's head would still whiplash into (and through?) the window. This would likely cause serious injury that could be avoided with a head type airbag.

The bottom line is that I agree with you. I'd rather have it, and would pay for it as an option.

I would add, If ford can price it into an explorer, so can Honda. And worse yet, it's not even offered on the MDX.

wmquan

"However, if the truck hits an SUV lower (than it does the sedan), the driver's head would still whiplash into (and through?) the window. This would likely cause serious injury that could be avoided with a head type airbag."

IMHO, I would replace "would" with "could." In theory, you're correct. But as I indicated in my previous message, crash testing has shown that this doesn't happen quite as badly as one might think.

Body/head recoil in a side impact simply isn't the same as it is in a forward impact. Videos of side impact crash tests demonstrate this. Rarely does the occupants' head come through the window. It'd be even rarer for the head to go through the window, and then bend down enough to hit the hood of a pickup impacting on the lower portion of the vehicle. Perhaps if one is an idiot and doesn't buckle up, it might happen.

At worse (and this is not very frequent), in side impact tests, the dummy's head tends to simply bounce off the door sill or the pillar. Unfortunately most side curtains don't cushion those areas. In the tests, most of the time there is no head injury, hence my original point. EuroNCAP tests confirm this.

That's one reason side airbags are not as large or as forceful as front airbags, there just isn't much recoil. Also why NHTSA doesn't currently instrument head injury in their side impact test.

Again, I'd rather have them than not, and Acura should put them in the MDX. Toyota doesn't yet have them in the Highlander, though. I just think that side curtains in SUV's are overrated and won't produce as many safety benefits as one might think.

Also, when Honda/Acura eventually introduces head protection, it'll be interesting to see if it's in the form of side curtains for the front and rear, or just multi-chambered side airbags for the front occupants only (e.g. 2003 Subaru Forester, some of the GM SUV's). We'll see.

mark189

Good points. I guess I don't have to buy the new Volvo SUV (with side curtains for all passengers) after all:)

diploid

"However, if the truck hits an SUV lower (than it does the sedan), the driver's head would still whiplash into (and through?) the window. This would likely cause serious injury that could be avoided with a head type airbag."

I think that would depend on the speed at which the truck strikes the SUV on its side. If it's so severe that the whiplash could cause the driver's head to hit the window, I wouldn't worry about head curtains. The driver's spinal cord would've probably already snapped at this point.

tidester

Perhaps if one is an idiot and doesn't buckle up, it might happen.

I wouldn't characterize folks that don't buckle up as idiots. Certainly, they are foolish. People don't buckle up for lots of reasons including being very busy people, thoughtlessness and ignorance (not in the pejorative sense - meaning only that they don't fully understand the consequences.) Most of these people have normal intelligence.

tidester
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paisan

They actually have less intelligence. It's common knowledge in 2002 that seatbelts are the #1 way to be safe in a car accident.

-mike

cct1

I read in a highly reliable source ("People Magazine") that there was a direct correlation to not wearing your seatbelt and owning a Pontiac Aztek....Which makes sense; if I owned one of those I wouldn't wear mine either...

diploid

lol cct...

skiparty

First new car in a long time. Any special advice on how to drive and for how long so I don't screw up the car for the next 100k miles?
thanks,
mike

jchan2

Geez, Toyota better jam a third row seat onto the Toyota Highlander now or you'll see 400 at your local Toyota dealer. The Odyssey will be discounted like Civics, and the new Accord will create another 6 month wait like Odyssey (99-00) Acura MD-X (01-early 02) and CR-V (97) The pilot will probably haul in profits 4 Honda.

nofeer

Car and Driver june issue just recieved yesterday, page 47.

After market hitches may take a while since this is a new vehicle.

Thanks for the info on using your laptop for gps, my wife says she would rather save 5-7k, get NAV without the in dash cd changer. but will the cd player be a single player with a changer added on or just a changer (installed away fromthe dash) she changes cd's a lot.

Just got back from China saturday, adopted a little girl, that's why we need a new vehichle, have to sell the turbo bug 2dr, sell the ml320 (we need an update) it's got 65k miles, and will probably sell to a famliy member.

If you all would like to see pictures of our little girl Chloe (8 months) here is the link

http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=86573740403&n=1445491042

We are trying to get her on a schedule, but after a 14 hour flight in economy class it's tough they are 12 hours different. But my wife has been working real hard on exercises, and keeping to a regimine. she is getting stronger every day (she's at a 6 month development level 5-10 percentile for US babies, but she will catch up.

varmint

However, if the truck hits an SUV lower (than it does the sedan), the drivers head would still whiplash into (and through?) the window. This would likely cause serious injury that could be avoided with a head type airbag.

Hey, everybody else is quoting it....

Ive watched a number of side impact videos and, AFAIK, the window always shattered before the dummys head came near it. There are several where you can watch the dummys head pass through the opening, but the glass is already gone. Since the vehicle is pushed away from the impact, theres not reason t suspect that the occupants head would hit the shards either.

These pics are for the CR-V, but you can see in both cases that, even when the glass doesnt shatter, it can be pulled away from the occupant.

CR-V without SAB

CR-V w/ SAB

In short, I don't think that hitting the window is a big deal. Whiplash is a greater possibility, but I don't know that an airbag would prevent that.

varmint

ps Those are some cute pics of Chloe. She seems to get along well with the cat.

socalscott

I received a call today from a dealer in southern cal that went on a ride and drive yesterday. Said the pilot handled and felt very MDX like. Also was told msrp would be 26k - 32k, same increments as the ody. This equates to 1300 over ody pricing, which is pretty close to the 1400 that has been the consensus on this forum. Not overly confident about this dealer's knowledge/connections though. I'm also 1st on waiting list at a different dealer, but was told no deposit necessary, pricing would be msrp w/ no dealer add ons, 4.9 - 5.9 financing, and would get a call when they're arriving. Sounds a little too good to be true so I'll probally shoot for some other dealers as backup. I prefer sagebrush, but not sure about fern interior (I want EX cloth) so might go w/ silver and gray interior. Any sandstone sightings or what current honda color it's comprable to. Thanks for all the posts on aftermarket ent. & navi systems, I'll be taking this route & it seems the laptop is the best way to go.

nofeer

When we were getting pictures together of our house and family (my wife and I) we were told not to include our pets, seems in china it's a new big city luxury to have pets, usually they eat dog, and cat. So our social worker said, it isn't appropriate to have pictures along side your food.
Wonderful people, there were 6 couples in our group in Nanchang, every time we stopped hordes of people would crowd around us to touch and look at the baby, they love children over there, we would plug up streets, walkways, grocery stores, people are just amazed that we have a chinese baby. children would run up to us to try out there english. it's amazing. great experience.:)

I'll get back on subject on the pilot--excuse the tangent.

wmquan

varmint:

Yes, I think we've seen some similar videos. If the window shatters, a side curtain doesn't have much to brace itself to keep the head from sticking out the window (in the event that it does happen). If anything, the head protection seems to be much more effective when something is actually smashing through the window, and the airbag acts as a cushion to keep your head from impacting against it and sustaining severe trauma.

That's why IIHS had to resort to smashing an SUV sideways with a pole ;-) They couldn't have generated the same type of head trauma with the pickup they used against the sedan, and it was their objective to dramatize (sensationalize?) the benefits of head protection.

Again, I'd like to see Honda/Acura introduce head protection into their sedans and SUV's. Certainly it's of value in the sedans, and is of some, albeit limited, value in the SUV's.

tidester:

Perhaps "idiot" is too aggressive a word and not politically correct, in which case I apologize. But, given the fact that there is such information given out about the benefits of seat belts, I'm not too sure I can think of very good words for those who don't buckle up.

It's everyone's freedom of choice to do what they want in life. But given that most fatalities result from not being buckled up, all they're doing is driving up the insurance rates for the rest of us!

I just can't buy into excuses like some people are "very busy" to buckle up.

This may sound harsh, but it's my opinion.

nofeer:

Congratulations, you're doing a great thing!

And now, back to the Pilot ...

paisan

Yeah that must have been a lapse in judgement. Heck I'm too busy to stop for traffic lights and stop signs... and I am so busy I MUST speed to get there quickly

-mike

g_husky

June issue, page 57. They have article comparing "image factor" of various SUVs, crossovers and minivan. Pilot is included and their review was very complementary on Honda hitting the market. Average ranking for off-road prowess and image due to minivan roots, but otherwise had good marks. Was at NY dealer today and learned that they have sold the first few coming in but that generally interest has been low (no comparison at all to what they saw for CR-V). Could be the SUV glut, or maybe people aren't thinking of Honda as larger SUV provider (yet). They have confirmation on first units coming their way in June, which sounds late to me. Let the lines begin.

stever

Nofeer - nice tangent. Congratulations!

Steve
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tidester

Congratulations! Chloe is a doll!

tidester
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diploid

"Perhaps 'idiot' is too aggressive a word and not politically correct, in which case I apologize. But, given the fact that there is such information given out about the benefits of seat belts, I'm not too sure I can think of very good words for those who don't buckle up."

Nope. Right on. "Too busy," "I just forgot," "I didn't know the consequences of not wearing a seat," bla bla bla. I say if a driver can close the door, turn on the radio, and adjust the mirrors, he or she can remember to buckle up, too.

tidester

I would guess that it's not completely irrational to drive without seatbelts simply in terms of the odds - 40,000 traffic fatalities each year out of population of some 280 MILLION.

No seatbelts - foolish? Absolutely! It's the "won't happen to me" syndrome and the data is on their side. Inconsiderate? Totally! Not only will it drive up my insurance rates, it will certainly cause surviving loved ones agonizing grief IF it happens.

tidester
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varmint

My favorite: "I'd rather be thrown clear". Some folks watch too much television.

stever

Not to mention paying for the life support for years for the ones who hit a tree but manage to survive.

hmm, that's a bit morbid. Nevermind :-)

Steve
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wmquan

Ha, I think we've gotten our points through on the seat belts. Only thing I can add to it is the excuse a close friend of mine uses. Last time he came visiting in these parts, I had to yell at him constantly to put his belt on.

His comment, "I usually rely on the airbag." (!!!)

Back to the Pilot, I noticed its headrests are of a different design than the MDX? Are they similar to another Honda vehicle (e.g. the Odyssey or hopefully the new CR-V)?

Reason I'm asking is that while the MDX has thus far scored stellar crash test scores, the IIHS assessment of the headrests is not particularly good. Assessment for preventing whiplash, that is. The MDX's were rated only "marginal." This is disturbing given that Honda/Acura generally hasn't done well in the headrest assessments -- until perhaps now. The new CR-V now carries a top rating and the new RSX also gets it (though with a footnote).

Hopefully Honda is correcting this deficiency in its newer vehicles and the Pilot will benefit from it. Heck, if they work well and can be swapped, I'd consider trying to get the Pilot headrests for the MDX (or new MDX ones if they get updated). The current MDX headrests are not particularly comfortable and I can see how they don't do a very good job of preventing whiplash.

http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/head_restraints/head_honda.htm

varmint

Wmquan - I have to treat those headrest assesments with a healthy bit of skepticism. Take the CR-V for example. The headrest design between 1997 and 2001 never changed. Yet their rankings range from poor to acceptable.

The second row headrests are too small, IMHO. They seem to have been designed with the sole intention of increasing reaward visibility. They can be raised quite a bit (to an acceptable height), but they are still small. And how many times to people in the rear seats actually adjust them for a proper fit?

The third row headrests are the same design/size as the second row. However, the seatback is too low as demonstrated in this pic. (note the headrest could still be raised another notch, but it still wouldn't be high enough)

nofeer

Nice, i guess in a pinch an adult could fit, does anyone know how the rear a/c/h controls work, does it include fan and temperature control, like most minivans, or is it just vents to the rear. One of the reasons my wife wants a new SUV is for rear a/c/h, how does the mdx, and ody compare to what we know of the pilot.

Motor trend--on newstands yet or for subscribers?

paisan

Well at least if people who aren't wearing their belts are elminated from society, hopefully it's before they reproduced! Then at least we don't have to worry about a next generation of them, besides our world is way over populated, not wearing your belts is darwin at it's best! Heck I can't even move my car out of my driveway w/o putting on a belt, just second nature to me.

-mike

sbcooke

When the system is set for "full auto" the rear just works when needed. When you set a "mode" just using the regular fan, it is off (at least I believe), then you can also set "rear manual" and the rear occupants get to control it. I believe it is a separate AC condenser for the rear? There are two spots that drip water when the AC is on, one in the front and one under the rear controls. If so, that is nice, rather than just rear air vents that draw off the front compressor.

mhenderson1

I just received read in the new Motor Trend article about the Pilot. Seems that the remarks were positive. I also stopped by a Honda dealership in MD, and asked about any literature on the new pilot. The dealer immediately went off on a tangent and just raved how this truck will be a huge seller and that they already have 15 people on the their list and that they were only dealing with serious buyers. AAARRRRRGGHHH!!!!! (like the Garfield comic strip) ALL I WANTED WAS JUST A PILOT BOOKLET. I can see now that Honda is starting the same old tactics like their kissing cousins Acura. If they keep this up, there will be many disgruntled consumers, who will give up on Honda/Acura entirely.

moonkat

nofeer:
Thanks for the incredible perspective on what's really important in life.
Chloe is adorable.

vtec2

Sorry if this has been posted already. June issue of Motor Trend has Pilot at 8.19 sec. to 60mph. They tested a RRP EXL-RES.

kinnman

How tall is that guy in the pic? He looks like a 7 footer, it's hilarious.