Hidden Hitch does make a round tube Class 3 hitch for the MDX, so likely there will be one for the Pilot as well.
Part # 70545 Class III Trailer Hitches - Round Tube Style
I would think that the ability to lock the rear clutch pack would allow you to pull up the boat ramp rather easily in first gear, the MDX/Pilot motor does have a good low torque curve and 2500 pounds w/trailer isn't horribly close to the towing limits of the Pilot/MDX.
You might post this in the MDX forum as well to see if people are towing boats with their MDX's and see if they have problems. There is some discussion on 'weak' transmission, or at least easily overheating a transmission. Of course, this being a concern for towing long distances or on long, steep grades.
Doing a quick search of other boards found these two posts, can't comment on the validity of them: alt.autos.acura "MDX couldn't send enough torque to the rear wheels for towing my 3500 lb boat up a wet boat ramp. It's primarily a front-drive SUV which is not good for towing."
misc.legal.moderated "I purchased a 2001 Acura MDX in Mid November of 2000. At that time, the owners manual - the one that came with my vehicle - indicated that the vehicle did not require any additional fluid coolers to haul a trailer of 2,500 pounds or less. I haul a 1,500 pound trailer. About a month after I took delivery of the vehicle, Acura apparently changed their mind and issued a bulletin to dealers that ANY trailer towing would not require the optional coolers. They now claim that failure to install the coolers on any vehicle with a trailer hitch, regardless of the weight being towed, may invalidate the transmission warranty. Obviously I could simply install the coolers, but Acura wants nearly $500 for this and I do not feel that I should have to shoulder the expense under the circumstances. Acura Customer Service has been less than helpful or accommodating on this matter."
Is the silver on the Pilot closer to the Odyssey/MDX (satin silver) or the silver on the CR-V?
Also, is the grey interior light or dark? My wife's Odyssey has grey that is close to charcoal. The superspy photographs make the interior look almost ivory (way too light...shows dirt too easily).
There may have been some. The majority of people I speak with are not familiar with it? Acura what? Anyway without much advertisment at all, they already have people lined up to get the Pilot.
"I have heard conjecture about heated seats and CD changer with the EX - however neither is shown on the Honda web site under the specifications section. I think we are setting ourselves up for a letdown on these items."
You know, you've got a point there. I had assumed that the EX would have a CD changer, based on the collegehillshonda.com site, and its early listing of Pilot accessories.
But when you go to pilot.honda.com, it says:
"EX models are equipped with a 7-speaker, 5-channel 155-watt AM/FM/Cassette/CD audio system including a subwoofer. LX models feature a 4-speaker, 120-watt AM/FM/CD audio system."
But no mention of a CD changer. It's usually quite prominently mentioned in marketing literature. The accompanying photo (of an EX system because it has the cassette) doesn't seem to come with a CD changer:
I thought "DISC-" and "DISC+" might be for changing the disks but I think it's just for the tracks. There is a button that says "CD/CHG" but I wonder if it means "switch to the CD or the Changer if you have it installed"?
But the collegehillshonda.com site says that the EX has a built-in changer?
Based on this limited information, I would guess that the CD changer may only be available as a dealer-installed (or self-installed) accessory. Perhaps it's a decision Honda made late in the game.
It's just another reason to justify the MDX's price.
I think that's a huge problem for Honda - how to turn an MDX into a Pilot without decontenting it too much. It would've been easier to upgrade a Pilot to an MDX. Like any other maker, all they would've had to do was add more stuff.
Please let me know which dealership is selling a new 2002 MDX for $34,700. I don't believe that car exists. I will drive within a 3 state radius of CA. and buy it.
A recent post stated that the EX would not have outside air temp. Isn't this feature part of the automatic climate control system? I believe the EX V6 Accord that I owned several years back had this feature as a button on the climate control system. Anyone have any ideas or confirmation? This element is key to winter driving, and could make/break the sale for me.
You guys are amazing, you know for $200 roughly you can get an auto-dimming mirror and outside temp guage for your car? How could something like a $200 item "make or break" a car purchase?
the 2500lb. rating is probably 'dry' weight. Adding gas, bateries and your gear adds to it considerably. Your most likely closer to 2800 or 3000lbs. Adding passangers to the vehical also subtracts from the towing capacity. So if you add 5 adults, your at 3700lbs? or so.
But this is a boat and according to Honda boat pounds are not equal to trailer pounds so you get another 1000lbs capacity. I haven't figured that one out yet. Why else is the Pilot rated for 3500lbs or 4500lbs if its a boat? Most 19 and 20ft boats have a very high profile, so I doubt wind resistance is a big factor.
Your s-10 (4.3 v6?) had a tow rating I believe of over 5000lbs.
I'm still looking for a good tow vehical for a family of 5 with a camper. I was hoping the Pilot would do, but I doubt it in the long run.
Even a large boat has a much much more aerodynamic profile than a full-height camper does.
Jay: Why not look into a 2002 Trooper: inexpensive (about 25.5K) tows up to 5K lbs w/o any upgrades, seats 5 very comfy (no 3rd row, but the 2nd row is big) very reliable, AWD. Flip over to the Trooper forum if you want more details.
To my understanding which may be wrong, the driver side is heated and powered, the passenger is SOL, ha ha. Of course it's all speculation and mainly based on the Oddy's config
Suprisingly my uncle's Acura TLS has heated driver's seat where the bottom and back are heated, but the passenger only gets a heated bottom. He and I thought that was odd, even his dealer did and was trying to order a replacement part for the back heat on the pass side, eventually they talked to the factory and found out the pass back isn't heated, go figure.
Paisan - The seat back in the TL isn't heated because of a conflict with the side airbag sensors. The air bags have a set of sensors which prevent it from going off if the occupant is too small or positioned improperly.
Regarding the Pilot, I've seen absolutely nothing from Honda that leads me to believe that the leather option includes seat heaters. That said, a good pair can be had for about $300.
Yep that is what they said. But you'd think that a luxo car could compensate for that, by putting in or engineering a different sensor or something. Just seems odd, like the wrong way-swing door on the CRVs.
I hope those prices quoted include shipping, if not, a used MDX looks better. OK, we are down to about 3 weeks till they sell the things and we still don't know all the details or prices. Tactics like these make me mad.
Please let me know which dealership is selling a new 2002 MDX for $34,700. I don't believe that car exists. I will drive within a 3 state radius of CA. and buy it.
I've heard some readers opting for a less expensive portable DVD or laptop rather than the RES. I'm considering this, but how does one get a portable player to play through the car speakers?
There is a little adapter you buy @ radio shack for like $20. It looks like a cassette with a wire on it. You plug the wire into the headphone jack on the laptop and stick it in your tape deck. Then it plays the computer sounds through the stereo, very nice sound usually.
I've heard some readers opting for a less expensive portable DVD or laptop rather than the RES. I'm considering this, but how does one get a portable player to play through the car speakers?
I've heard some readers opting for a less expensive portable DVD or laptop rather than the RES. I'm considering this, but how does one get a portable player to play through the car speakers?
You can buy a wireless FM modulator that broadcasts a signal that your radio will pickup and play through the car. Again radio shack would have one. If you are getting a 3rd party RES, you can have the FM Modulator wired in, and get wireless headphones for peace and quite--yeh
Seems clear cut to me. I can get 8 seats, and MDX mechanics (or close to it for everyday use)for $27,000. Why pay an extra $8,000 (base vs. base) for an MDX just to add some frivolous options. I can switch CD's and adjust my seat manually for that much money. I know a moon roof is deal breaker for some people, and I wonder how our parents survived without them. I guess I should be glad that other buyers disagree. That extra $8,000 for the Acura helps Honda keep the prices down on its own nameplate vehicles.
BTW, I checked out the Explorer just to get ballpark prices. It confirmed why I like dealing with Honda. Nicely equipped base models with a fair price upfront. Ford: a lot full of vehicles loaded with pricey options. The lowest I could find was $31,000. Maybe after hours of endless haggling I could get it for less. GM is the same way. I'll take a Pilot at MSRP any day.
I tend to agree with you except for the following:
I bet Honda offers very few of the initial Pilots in the base configuration - much like the MDX. I have checked with three dealers and I have not found an LX that will be delivered as a part of the initial allotment yet. In addition, I was informed by one dealer that the Pilots would go to those customers who were willing to ante up a "market adjustment" premium or those that would accept a bunch of dealer-installed options. This parallels the MDX, where you couldn't find a base model if your life depended on it.
If you find a good dealership - one who is actually willing to order the vehicle you are looking for - then I tend to agree. However, I think those are few and far between...
Last I checked Honda doesn't offer any prices on their "options" they are all listed as DIOs w/o a list price. This was a few years ago so things may have changed now. This policy though left the door open for dealers to charge whatever they wanted for any and all options.
"Seems clear cut to me. I can get 8 seats, and MDX mechanics (or close to it for everyday use)for $27,000."
I hope you do, but based on Honda dealers' notoriety for price gauging, it'll be very difficult. When I first heard about the Pilot (before it even had a name), the rumors said 23K. Then when more info came out, it bumped up to 25-27K. And now they're saying even up to 32K (!) for the top of the line Pilot. And those are numbers BEFORE taxes, title, registration, and of course, dealer markups.
Since people pay for what they want, the Honda dealers are taking advantage of those willing to pay. It has played out over and over; The Miata, the PT Cruiser, on-and-on. After a short period of time, the 'thrill' wears off and prices come down. Honda may be deliberatly limiting production of the MDX in an effort to keep pricing pressure up. How else would they 'suddenly' be able to build 60,000 Pilots using the same mechanicals as the MDX?
The Accord is a great car and a popular seller. However, due to market pressure, Honda has to sell the Accord at or near invoice. And since they sell what, almost 300,000 of them a year, they can certainly build in quantity.
Honda has set what they feel is an appropriate price - they call it 'sticker' pricing. It is going to be real interesting to see what actually happens to Pilot AND the MDX pricing when the Pilot comes out. Any dealer gouging and charging OVER sticker as a 'market adjustment' will never-ever get my business, period - and they shouldn't get yours.
Judging from the other posts, we must have an exceptional dealer here in Southern New Hampshire. They took deposits, the sales manager called a while back to find out what color/trim I wanted so they could make sure it was in the 1st allocation. They intend to sell at MSRP, not lower or higher. Today he told me that we're looking at a 2-4 week window for delivery. Of course, we are repeat customers, so don't know if that makes a difference. Definitely agree that giving in to gouging dealers is a no-no.
My dealer in Mass (not the automile man) is selling me an LX at MSRP and told me the production date is May 08-11. That should translate into a delivery in 2 to 4 weeks as well. I would expect to get it delivered no later than the first week of June.
Just read the reviews of the Pilot in the magazines. 0-60 times of roughly 8.1 seconds...wow! Is it just me or is that faster than the average 9.0 seconds that the MDX gets?
Mkaye - The Ontario plant where the MDX is built is also the same plant where the Ody is manufactured. Now Honda has a new line here in the states where additional Ody units will be made. That new plant went on-line a few months ago. This frees up resources at the Ontario plant to make the Pilot along side the MDX.
Diploid - The MDX has also run to 60mph in the low eight range. Consider that the 8.1 second run comes from Motor Trend. At MT, they run the vehicle to 60 mph several times, then take the fastest time. Other mags take an average of three runs, so they tend to be higher (slower). In fact, check the back of that MT mag and you'll see the MDX's time is also 8.1 seconds with the 1/4 mile at 16.3/84.3. The Pilot in that issue runs 8.1 and 16.4/85.13. Pretty close.
Just saw a pair of new Dodge commercials. One for the Ram and another for the Durango. At the end of the Ram ad, they mention the 7 year warranty and how it's longer than either GM or Toyota. At the end of the Durango ad, then state that the warranty is longer than GM, Chrysler, or Honda. Who's already worried about the competition?
It's similar to the MDX, no surprise. Only slow MDX time I'm familiar with was the Car and Driver comparo, which was run on a slow track (as all the vehicles were significantly slower). Motor Trend timed the MDX at 8.1 seconds. Edmunds claimed 8.1 for the MDX.
The best MDX time ever recorded was by Motor Week, at 7.6 seconds.
Curiously, the Mountain Democrat of El Dorado county had the MDX clocked at 8.14, but after six months and 15k it was clocked at 8.0, supposedly under the same test conditions.
Don't let anyone tell you you'll never use your Pilot off-road. Sometimes the roads we drive today barely qualify as roads I live near a park in NJ in which engraved upon a cement wall if a quote from Gen George C Marshall that says: "If We Are Not Careful We Shall Leave Our Children Nothing But A Legacy Of Billion Dollar Roads, Leading No Where But To Other Congested Places, Like The Ones They Left Behind" When I see the proliferation of SUVs and other utility vehicles I see an adddem to that visionary, Marhsall's quote "If We Are Not Careful We Shall Leave Our Children Nothing But A CRUMBLING Legacy Of Billion Dollar Roads, Leading No Where But To Other Congested Places, Like The Ones They Left Behind" Yes crumbling. We as the USA seem to have a penchant for laying out roads ONCE, maybe even well, according to anachronistic designs for traffic patterns decades out of date. Our roads die horrible deaths well before their time and everyone who lives with cold winters dreads the inevitable re mapping of the local roads avoiding the old hazards with the new hazards of poorly patched,never drainging, eroded, potholed roads. You can't tell me in any of your coupe and sedan experience you haven't bottomed out on 'regular' paved road, or damaged a wheel on a 3"+ tire eating pothole. It's not some sick 'Big is better' fantasy to want a sturdy enviroment eating SUV to navigate even our 'regular' roads. It's Self Defense against the constantly degraded definition as to what On-Road driving conditions are. Tell me the pucker factor isn't topped out when going over 50mpg through the cross bronx expressway dodging parts of less fortunate cars , gully-sized ruts, manhole sized potholes that you swear the brimstone and smoke of hell can be seen. Then turn around and tell me I'm a bad guy for not wanting a frame that can take a beating and ground clearence to triumph over a topography of asphalt, macadam, and patching rocks that changes yearly and mostly for the worse. I see the Outbacks, and Pilots, and other nigh-offroad vehicles as the defense against a road that more and more often bites back.
I'm the first on the list for Sagebrush EX-L in August at MSRP no add-ons. My dealer is getting 6 in his first allotment and there's one Silver LX in there. They are taking orders already for August on all colors other than Sagebrush, so they are about mid-20's deep on the list. Then again nobody has seen the car yet or driven one, or knows what is costs, or knows exact options and stats, or ect...
I too have an order at a southern NH dealer (in Nashua) at MSRP as well as one in Mass at MSRP. I wouldn't pay a dime over and wouldn't pay for any dealer add ons that I didn't want. I'm not aware of any price gouging out here on the Pilot or for that matter the Odyssey which we also bought at MSRP. I backed out of an MDX deal a year or so ago because of the trade in value they were offering me but again that was an MSRP deal. Is this price gouging primarliy a California phenomena or a large metropolitan area thing? I think anyone who buys above MSRP is just plain foolish and feeding into the dealerships greed. I like Honda's but there are plenty of decent alternatives out there...
diploid: I remember the speculation about MDX times back at this stage of its introduction two years ago. Honda (Acura) was absolutely inscrutable about MDX performance. It appeared initially that Honda would not allow timed runs of its new vehicle; everything reead "less than 9 sec". Now we generally see "8.1 sec, 0-60" reported. You know, that's the same number reported by Consumer's Reports, and they measure from a standstill, no engine braking, and engine at idle! Think C&D can do better ?-)
What is overlooked is that Honda does not want to sell its MDX based on acceleration numbers, and to hot-rodders. Bad for MDX insurance rates, and statistics. I continue to believe that they actively suppress HP, and acceleration numbers on some vehicles. The mags and other manufacturers are glad to go along with this. BMW's x5 3.0 in particular benefits from this. As I recall, early reviews clocked and promoted the BumW at 8.1, while they generally agree on 8.5 now (see Edmunds review). The mags are able to promote their premium marks (read ad revenues, and great rides) and keep Honda happy.
I think you have to look at independent testers for unbiased acceleration runs.
wmquan: you planning a trip to the raceway park anytime soon?
Comments
Part # 70545
Class III Trailer Hitches - Round Tube Style
I would think that the ability to lock the rear clutch pack would allow you to pull up the boat ramp rather easily in first gear, the MDX/Pilot motor does have a good low torque curve and 2500 pounds w/trailer isn't horribly close to the towing limits of the Pilot/MDX.
You might post this in the MDX forum as well to see if people are towing boats with their MDX's and see if they have problems. There is some discussion on 'weak' transmission, or at least easily overheating a transmission. Of course, this being a concern for towing long distances or on long, steep grades.
Doing a quick search of other boards found these two posts, can't comment on the validity of them:
alt.autos.acura
"MDX couldn't send enough torque to the rear wheels for towing my 3500 lb boat up a wet boat ramp. It's primarily a front-drive SUV which is not good for towing."
misc.legal.moderated
"I purchased a 2001 Acura MDX in Mid November of 2000. At that time, the owners manual - the one that came with my vehicle - indicated that the vehicle did not require any additional fluid coolers to haul a trailer of 2,500 pounds or less. I haul a 1,500 pound trailer. About a month after I took delivery of the vehicle, Acura apparently changed their mind and issued a bulletin to dealers that ANY trailer towing would not require the optional coolers. They now claim that failure to install the coolers on any vehicle with a trailer hitch, regardless of the weight being towed, may invalidate the transmission warranty.
Obviously I could simply install the coolers, but Acura wants nearly $500 for this and I do not feel that I should have to shoulder the expense under the circumstances. Acura Customer Service has been less than helpful or accommodating on this matter."
Also, is the grey interior light or dark? My wife's Odyssey has grey that is close to charcoal. The superspy photographs make the interior look almost ivory (way too light...shows dirt too easily).
there is a official Honda news site,
http://www.hondanews.com
Under "What's Hot", then "Production-Ready Pilot Steers Course For Honda Lineup"
it'll bring you to 100's Pilot's pitures, which are used for press download.
You know, you've got a point there. I had assumed that the EX would have a CD changer, based on the collegehillshonda.com site, and its early listing of Pilot accessories.
But when you go to pilot.honda.com, it says:
"EX models are equipped with a 7-speaker, 5-channel 155-watt AM/FM/Cassette/CD audio system including a subwoofer. LX models feature a 4-speaker, 120-watt AM/FM/CD audio system."
But no mention of a CD changer. It's usually quite prominently mentioned in marketing literature. The accompanying photo (of an EX system because it has the cassette) doesn't seem to come with a CD changer:
http://pilot.honda.com/images/popups/gallery_Interior_1.jpg
I thought "DISC-" and "DISC+" might be for changing the disks but I think it's just for the tracks. There is a button that says "CD/CHG" but I wonder if it means "switch to the CD or the Changer if you have it installed"?
But the collegehillshonda.com site says that the EX has a built-in changer?
Based on this limited information, I would guess that the CD changer may only be available as a dealer-installed (or self-installed) accessory. Perhaps it's a decision Honda made late in the game.
I think that's a huge problem for Honda - how to turn an MDX into a Pilot without decontenting it too much. It would've been easier to upgrade a Pilot to an MDX. Like any other maker, all they would've had to do was add more stuff.
I'm in the adirondacks, you up that far?
-mike
thanx
Thanks
-mike
But this is a boat and according to Honda boat pounds are not equal to trailer pounds so you get another 1000lbs capacity. I haven't figured that one out yet. Why else is the Pilot rated for 3500lbs or 4500lbs if its a boat? Most 19 and 20ft boats have a very high profile, so I doubt wind resistance is a big factor.
Your s-10 (4.3 v6?) had a tow rating I believe of over 5000lbs.
I'm still looking for a good tow vehical for a family of 5 with a camper. I was hoping the Pilot would do, but I doubt it in the long run.
--jay
Jay: Why not look into a 2002 Trooper: inexpensive (about 25.5K) tows up to 5K lbs w/o any upgrades, seats 5 very comfy (no 3rd row, but the 2nd row is big) very reliable, AWD. Flip over to the Trooper forum if you want more details.
-mike
-mike
-mike
LX 27,210
EX 29,710
EXL 31,210
EXL-RES 32,710
EXL-NAVI 33,210
I wonder how accurate that info is or if they are even close.
Regarding the Pilot, I've seen absolutely nothing from Honda that leads me to believe that the leather option includes seat heaters. That said, a good pair can be had for about $300.
-mike
http://www.manhonda.com/sales/newauto.cfm?Action=List&ModelID=34
Their price is estimated.
OK, we are down to about 3 weeks till they sell the things and we still don't know all the details or prices. Tactics like these make me mad.
For 3.5K more I can get an MDX with all they have plus a track record.
If this is true, I can't see getting a Pilot assuming my Acura dealer is being honest.
Very disappointing.
For 3.5K more I can get an MDX with all they have plus a track record.
If this is true, I can't see getting a Pilot assuming my Acura dealer is being honest.
Very disappointing.
update: http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog_name=CTLG&category_name=CTLG_002_001_019_005&product_id=12-1999
-mike
For 3.5K more I can get an MDX with all they have plus a track record.
If this is true, I can't see getting a Pilot assuming my Acura dealer is being honest.
Very disappointing.
For 3.5K more I can get an MDX with all they have plus a track record.
If this is true, I can't see getting a Pilot assuming my Acura dealer is being honest.
Very disappointing.
What's up with the dup postings?
You can buy a wireless FM modulator that broadcasts a signal that your radio will pickup and play through the car. Again radio shack would have one. If you are getting a 3rd party RES, you can have the FM Modulator wired in, and get wireless headphones for peace and quite--yeh
BTW, I checked out the Explorer just to get ballpark prices. It confirmed why I like dealing with Honda. Nicely equipped base models with a fair price upfront. Ford: a lot full of vehicles loaded with pricey options. The lowest I could find was $31,000. Maybe after hours of endless haggling I could get it for less. GM is the same way. I'll take a Pilot at MSRP any day.
I bet Honda offers very few of the initial Pilots in the base configuration - much like the MDX. I have checked with three dealers and I have not found an LX that will be delivered as a part of the initial allotment yet. In addition, I was informed by one dealer that the Pilots would go to those customers who were willing to ante up a "market adjustment" premium or those that would accept a bunch of dealer-installed options. This parallels the MDX, where you couldn't find a base model if your life depended on it.
If you find a good dealership - one who is actually willing to order the vehicle you are looking for - then I tend to agree. However, I think those are few and far between...
-mike
I hope you do, but based on Honda dealers' notoriety for price gauging, it'll be very difficult. When I first heard about the Pilot (before it even had a name), the rumors said 23K. Then when more info came out, it bumped up to 25-27K. And now they're saying even up to 32K (!) for the top of the line Pilot. And those are numbers BEFORE taxes, title, registration, and of course, dealer markups.
The Accord is a great car and a popular seller. However, due to market pressure, Honda has to sell the Accord at or near invoice. And since they sell what, almost 300,000 of them a year, they can certainly build in quantity.
Honda has set what they feel is an appropriate price - they call it 'sticker' pricing. It is going to be real interesting to see what actually happens to Pilot AND the MDX pricing when the Pilot comes out. Any dealer gouging and charging OVER sticker as a 'market adjustment' will never-ever get my business, period - and they shouldn't get yours.
I would expect to get it delivered no later than the first week of June.
Diploid - The MDX has also run to 60mph in the low eight range. Consider that the 8.1 second run comes from Motor Trend. At MT, they run the vehicle to 60 mph several times, then take the fastest time. Other mags take an average of three runs, so they tend to be higher (slower). In fact, check the back of that MT mag and you'll see the MDX's time is also 8.1 seconds with the 1/4 mile at 16.3/84.3. The Pilot in that issue runs 8.1 and 16.4/85.13. Pretty close.
Just saw a pair of new Dodge commercials. One for the Ram and another for the Durango. At the end of the Ram ad, they mention the 7 year warranty and how it's longer than either GM or Toyota. At the end of the Durango ad, then state that the warranty is longer than GM, Chrysler, or Honda. Who's already worried about the competition?
The best MDX time ever recorded was by Motor Week, at 7.6 seconds.
Curiously, the Mountain Democrat of El Dorado county had the MDX clocked at 8.14, but after six months and 15k it was clocked at 8.0, supposedly under the same test conditions.
I live near a park in NJ in which engraved upon a cement wall if a quote from Gen George C Marshall that says:
"If We Are Not Careful We Shall Leave Our Children Nothing But A Legacy Of Billion Dollar Roads, Leading No Where But To Other Congested Places, Like The Ones They Left Behind"
When I see the proliferation of SUVs and other utility vehicles I see an adddem to that visionary, Marhsall's quote
"If We Are Not Careful We Shall Leave Our Children Nothing But A CRUMBLING Legacy Of Billion Dollar Roads, Leading No Where But To Other Congested Places, Like The Ones They Left Behind"
Yes crumbling. We as the USA seem to have a penchant for laying out roads ONCE, maybe even well, according to anachronistic designs for traffic patterns decades out of date. Our roads die horrible deaths well before their time and everyone who lives with cold winters dreads the inevitable re mapping of the local roads avoiding the old hazards with the new hazards of poorly patched,never drainging, eroded, potholed roads. You can't tell me in any of your coupe and sedan experience you haven't bottomed out on 'regular' paved road, or damaged a wheel on a 3"+ tire eating pothole. It's not some sick 'Big is better' fantasy to want a sturdy enviroment eating SUV to navigate even our 'regular' roads. It's Self Defense against the constantly degraded definition as to what On-Road driving conditions are. Tell me the pucker factor isn't topped out when going over 50mpg through the cross bronx expressway dodging parts of less fortunate cars , gully-sized ruts, manhole sized potholes that you swear the brimstone and smoke of hell can be seen. Then turn around and tell me I'm a bad guy for not wanting a frame that can take a beating and ground clearence to triumph over a topography of asphalt, macadam, and patching rocks that changes yearly and mostly for the worse.
I see the Outbacks, and Pilots, and other nigh-offroad vehicles as the defense against a road that more and more often bites back.
tidester
Host
SUVs
I remember the speculation about MDX times back at this stage of its introduction two years ago. Honda (Acura) was absolutely inscrutable about MDX performance. It appeared initially that Honda would not allow timed runs of its new vehicle; everything reead "less than 9 sec". Now we generally see "8.1 sec, 0-60" reported. You know, that's the same number reported by Consumer's Reports, and they measure from a standstill, no engine braking, and engine at idle! Think C&D can do better ?-)
What is overlooked is that Honda does not want to sell its MDX based on acceleration numbers, and to hot-rodders. Bad for MDX insurance rates, and statistics. I continue to believe that they actively suppress HP, and acceleration numbers on some vehicles. The mags and other manufacturers are glad to go along with this. BMW's x5 3.0 in particular benefits from this. As I recall, early reviews clocked and promoted the BumW at 8.1, while they generally agree on 8.5 now (see Edmunds review). The mags are able to promote their premium marks (read ad revenues, and great rides) and keep Honda happy.
I think you have to look at independent testers for unbiased acceleration runs.
wmquan: you planning a trip to the raceway park anytime soon?