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I can vouch for Intermed. He is a regular poster on these boards and holds strong opinions which doesn't distinguish him appreciably from many of the other Town Hall members! :-)
tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
The point is, your "rules for posting" aren't going to fly.
The Honda transmissions were brought up because this board took a big turn towards the Honda vs. Ford argument a long time ago.
Geez, Baggs, what rules of posting?? I am just saying that you guys criticizing the Honda tranny as if the CRV has that problem. It does not.
However, STALLING is a specific problem of the Escape. Therefore, you cannot compare the two. It is logical, no?
The reason why the transmission problems in OTHER Honda vehicles was brought up was Because.. now listen.. or read..
Honda folks kept beating the drum and spreading panic about the stalling issues in the Escape/Tribs. Making it sound like ALL Escapes/Tribs have this problem.. This is extreme and is NOT True.
Now pay attention.... are you still with me?
Someone from another room had actually looked up numbers and did a quick percentage. numbers showed roughly 1.8% of Escapes/Tribs seem to have this problem. As I have been saying over and over and over and over and over and over this is a low percentage if you would visit other chat rooms around the net you will see for yourself very few people are experiencing this issue.
Are you still with me?
Another person did a like comparison of Honda's with transmission problems, Accords, Civics/Oddessy ect.. and 1.8% of them have had transmission issues. Why isn't anyone spreading panic and rumors and stories about these issues?
Took time again today to head on over the my friends Honda dealership. I test drove an 02 CRV in brown that had been returned for a trade in for an Accord??? Anyhooo.... It was a 4spd automatic in EX trim. Asking price was 22,999!! I thought CRV's were supposed to be less expensive than Escapes..?? I still don't see how you can say the CRV is just as quick or drives just as nice as an Escape... or that the engine is any quieter or smoother than an Escape?? or the plastics are of better quality than an Escape?? The reality is here folks these two are about right dead even for interior quality/fit/finish.....
tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
"The reality is here folks these two are about right dead even for interior quality/fit/finish....."
Right on!!!
I think we can all agree that this board has been very alive with debate because we all are very loyal to the vehicle we own. This in itself proves that our cars are Great and we are often argueing about stupid little things...
It is fun to debate though
and
Q: "Geez, Baggs, what rules of posting?? " intmed: post 2309
A: The "rules of posting" that you stated in the first quote above.
What we can and cannot discuss is not up to you. Thank God for that!
It's true that the Accord/Odyssey/Acura transmission woes do not directly affect the CR-V. It was only pointed out to show that Honda does have it's problems too. Like davegh said: "I think we can all agree that this board has been very alive with debate because we all are very loyal to the vehicle we own. This in itself proves that our cars are Great and we are often argueing about stupid little things...
It is fun to debate though
It's kind of a pride thing. Get it?
Just because you can't discern the differences, doesn't mean they don't exist. Those remarks (or similar) have been made by owners and reviewers.
BTW, it's "brakes", not "breaks". I'm sure there was plenty of "breaking" during the crash tests.
He did own one until this year and is still quite active in CRV forums. I think he has plenty of experience first hand with a CRV to be able to speak knowledgably about it.
I think anytime anybody gets pinned by facts here they change the subject to FORD VS HONDA in general or pick an area where their vehicle shines as opposed to admitting an actual advantage by the 'opponent'. Since this discussion is CRV VS ESCAPE, I think comparrisons should be limited to those models.
Assertion: The CR-V is safer as shown in crash tests.
Counter: The Escape is safer as related to stopping distances.
The Honda vs Ford arguments might hold water if they were somehow tied to the specific vehicles. You might find a trend in Honda vehicles which is apparent in the CR-V and contrast it with a common Ford trait. But that's not what we had here. This is what we had:
Assertion: The Escape has problems with stalling.
Counter: The Accord has an equal number of problems with transmissions.
Since the problems with the tranny are not a Honda trait and are not shared with the CR-V, that counter is just plain bogus. This reminds me of when Scape was trying to prove something with TSBs. He thought he had a smoking gun, but didn't know where to point it. As a result, he used it as an all-purpose counter to anything and everything.
Not a 2002 CR-V which is what we are supposedly comparing. varmint doesn't have one either, but he stays out of most discussions that don't involve hard data.
"Since this discussion is CRV VS ESCAPE, I think comparrisons should be limited to those models."
I think so too, but we can't always get what we want. Besides, we've already argued everything there is to argue about concerning these two vehicles to death.
I thought this board was dead because all of the Honda folks moved over to the "Honda vs the World" discussion (please tell me that it doesn't exist).
It was mentioned before that the current Civic has had 5 recalls issued on it. The CR-V is directly related to the Civic. The 2001 Civic only had one of those issued to it in 2001 and the other 4 came out during the 2002 MY.
So far the CR-V has had one recall issued during it's first year. Are we to expect a few more during the 2003 MY?
Does that fit your formula varmint?
Unfortunately for you and Scape2, i also know a lot about the Escape/Tribute. I love SUVs...i study almost all of them! It is my hobby.
Where in this forum rule does it state that i have to own a vehicle to participate??
Scape2, since you're recently at a Honda dealership, did you look underneath the '02 CRV to check out the strong front control arms??
What is "hard data", Baggs?? Also, why are you sooo sensitive?? Did i insult you or something?? I don't even remember who you are! I just remember debating with Scape2 a while back. Who are you again, Baggs?? Man, you need some Xanax!
Are YOU following me??
For the record, the forum rules do not state that! :-)
tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
Steve, Host
But you can't...
Intmed - The Escape/Tribute twins are loosely based on the 626 platform, not the Focus.
Exactly! Where in the rules does it say someone can't post something slightly off topic? If it does say that somewhere, every board at Edmunds should be shut down. Flaming someone, and telling them what they can and cannot post, for discussing an off-topic issue is not what this is all about.
"I am a "co-founder" of a CRV forum (both 1st gen and 2nd gen). I know the 1st gen CRV like the back of my hand. I also know quite a bit about the '02 CRV too! I am sure i know more about it than most '02 owners."
I've had conversations with GatorGreg and Looksha over at your CR-V forum before. Looksha helped me find a place to drive on the beach in the OBX of NC. You were even the moderator on both of the boards I posted in!
Owning it and "knowing about it" are two different things. You can compare all the numbers you want, but it's the real world experiences that count in the end. Things like how I got a little over 25 mpg on my last trip. The numbers don't show that, but it is possible. There are capabilities beyond what the numbers say.
Maybe I'm just tired of discussing all the same old things that I know you are going to bring up again.
My friend is a conservative driver and her tire pressure is at the recommended amount and she never got above 20 mpg with her V6 Escape! 25 mpg is very good, are your tires about to burst from being over-inflated???
Not sure if you know this, but i did own my CRV for over 4 years! I off-roaded many times (you know where the pics are i assume). I had over 99,000 miles on it. I HAVE REAL-WORLD EXPERIENCE with my CRV! Is this board ONLY for 2nd gen CRV??
Man, when did i say that Scape is not allowed to post about the above topic?? I just QUESTIONED the logic! I flammed Scape2?! My apologies if i did! Many apologies!
The hosts are in TOTAL agreement! :-)
tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
Varmit, thanks for the spelling lesson :-) Breaks vs Brakes... oooopssss.....
Intmed, you just crack me up! Stronger control arms.. what the he.. are you talking about??? I am still waiting for the link showing the CRV has a stronger suspension or "boxed control arms" as you keep saying. You can't find one, because it doesn't. There is no reason for Honda to fork out the extra cash for this type of development on an entry level SUV. And, over 95% of 4x4 owners barely even see even a gravel road. Anyone who puts an Escape XLT 4x4 V6 on a lift side by side with a CRV 4x4 EX will see the EScapes suspesion/skid plates ect.. are just more robust..
"There is no reason for Honda to fork out the extra cash for this type of development on an entry level SUV. And, over 95% of 4x4 owners barely even see even a gravel road."
This is small
Same goes for the Escape!!!
Read my words carefully so you don't jump to conclusions
Btw, go park the CRV next to the Escape, I think you will see that the Escape has advantages and the CRV has advantages.
One example on the CRV is everything is nicely tucked away and is very flush compared to the Escape.
The CRV has MORE skid plates then the Escape but the Escape doesn't need them in some spots because the metal is thick enough where it doesn't need the additional skid plates the CRV has.
=> not much difference here
I am not sure about the strength of the control arm for both vehicles.
I can assure you the CRV has a more rigid torsional and bending strength then the Escape.
The Escape has an advantage with the four wheel drive system and with ground clearance if you get the oversized tires.
Excuse all the colors and fancy stuff, I just figured out how to adjust font, and I am experimenting with the options.
Recommended pressure for the 16 inchers is 30 psi. I bumped them all up to 33 psi to compensate for some extra weight (food, beer, beach chairs, etc.). I did end up over compensating a bit as it turned out. Plus, the tires will heat up after a while thus increasing the pressure a little more, but I still wouldn't say that they were over-inflated by any stretch of the imagination.
I did notice a slight harshness to the ride, but it was in no way unbearable.
On the other hand, I left the recommended 30 psi in the tires on our last trip and got somewhere between 23 ad 24 mpg. I do use the cruise control a lot. Maybe your friend doesn't?
This board is used to discuss many things even though the title implies that we are discussing the Escape and CR-V. It should probably carry the name "Honda and the CR-V vs Ford and the Escape" or something to that effect.
I once tried to compare the Escape to the last gen CR-V because so many posters owned them, but someone (I'm not going to use names) lashed out at me for not keeping the discussion within what he/she deemed as the appropriate context. He/She informed me that we were only to be discussing the 2002 CR-V vs the Escape. That didn't exactly fly either.
I'm not trying to defend scape either because he can surely hold his own.
That's the shortened version. See where I'm coming from?
Let's get back to something more constructive now.
Most of my friends driving was in the country with no interstate nearby. There were highways though. In the same are with my 2002 CRV I have been consistently getting 22 to 25 mpg. On some long trips I have achieved 30 mpg! I haven't achieved that high mileage since I put the Blizzacks on my CRV. Last winter pretty much did the tires in and I have been wearing them out over the summer as recommended. I wonder if the soft tire has an effect on my mileage.
I also should inflate my tires more because of the weight of beer in my CRV alone!
A bit of topic drift is normal and tolerated.
Steve, Host
ZX2, Focus, Focus SE Wagon ,SVT Focus, Mustang Coupe, Mustang Convertible, SVT Mustang Cobra Coupe, SVT Mustang Cobra Convertible, Thunderbird, Taurus, Taurus Wagon, Ranger, F-150, SVT F-150 Lightning, F-250, F-350, Econoline E-150, Econoline E-250, Econoline E-350 Crown Victoria, Windstar, Escape, Explorer Sport, Explorer Sport Trac, Explorer, Expedition, Excursion, LS, Continental, Town Car, Aviator, Navigator, Blackwood, Cougar, Sable, Sable Wagon, Grand Marquis, Marauder, Villager, Mountaineer, Miata, Protege, 626, Millenia, MPV, Tribute, B Pickup, Vs. Accord Coupe, Accord Sedan, Civic Coupe, Civic Hybrid, Civic Sedan, Civic Si, CR-V, Element, Insight, Odyssey, Pilot, S2000, RL, RL-Type S, TL, CL, CL Type-S, RSX, RSX Type-S, NSX, MDX
intmed, I guess its just based on ones perception or what they want to see. I know that anyone who actually parks these two vehicles side by side and checks overall fit/finish/quality will see very few if any minor differences. And, anyone who has the ability to actually lift a CRV and an Escape side by side (Like I did) will also see the differences, to what I believe would be in the Escapes favor.
I vote we keep this Honda CRV vs Ford Escape....
All the Escape news on the Ford web site seems to concern the HEV. I couldn't find anything about a new four banger.
I read that they are actually testing the HEV off-road right now to make sure it can live up to it's gasoline powered brothers and cousins.
I'd link everyone to some cool pictures of the HEV's interior and exterior (pretty sure they're real), but they reside in a post on another forum.
ZX2, Focus, Focus SE Wagon ,SVT Focus, Mustang Coupe, Mustang Convertible, SVT Mustang Cobra Coupe, SVT Mustang Cobra Convertible, Thunderbird, Taurus, Taurus Wagon, Ranger, F-150, SVT F-150 Lightning, F-250, F-350, Econoline E-150, Econoline E-250, Econoline E-350 Crown Victoria, Windstar, Escape, Explorer Sport, Explorer Sport Trac, Explorer, Expedition, Excursion, LS, Continental, Town Car, Aviator, Navigator, Blackwood, Cougar, Sable, Sable Wagon, Grand Marquis, Marauder, Villager, Mountaineer, Miata, Protege, 626, Millenia, MPV, Tribute, B Pickup, Vs. Accord Coupe, Accord Sedan, Civic Coupe, Civic Hybrid, Civic Sedan, Civic Si, CR-V, Element, Insight, Odyssey, Pilot, S2000, RL, RL-Type S, TL, CL, CL Type-S, RSX, RSX Type-S, NSX, MDX
How about if I shorten that to My Vehicle vs. Yours? :-)
tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
Scape - As I recall, you had the opportunity to closely inspect your Escape's fit an finish when a plastic handle broke off in your hand. Did you take a real close look at it then?
BTW, I have 68K on my 99 CR-V. Nothing but scheduled maintenance. I know of several CR-Vers with more than 200K and only a few wear and tear issues.
That sounds like a hint to declare victory and move on! :-)
tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
"I can assure you the CRV has a more rigid torsional and bending strength then the Escape"
How was this measured or determined?
----------
I think I saw where you mentioned this in relation to crash tests. However the rigidity and bending strength needed for off-roading is very different from that needed for superior crash test scores. In many cases the same rigidity that makes for a more sturdy 4x4 vehicle, makes it worse in crash tests because the lack of crumpling etc.
I don't think extra cushioning would've prevented the Escape to bend its metal frame as much as it did in the NHTSA picture.
My Escape has been reliable, functional and a good performer at 16,000 miles.
The Escape takes a real beating in the 4cyl arena. Ford needs to offer a good strong 4cyl engine. I read alot about the HEV also, but nothing any longer about the 2.3..
Since Saturn is planning on Using the 240 HP Honda V6, should we be expecting to see the 3.5 in the Escape and all the others that use the 3.0 sometime down the road? I wouldn't doubt it. IF that happens, I think we'll see a V6 in the CR-V around the same time too.
I don't doubt you will see a 3.5 in the Escape/Tribute in the next generation. I think the next redo for the Escape is do in 2004/5?? I think Honda will drop a V6 in the CRV in its next major redo also..
The small V6 engines available today give you the HP/Torque needed to tow/haul/pull if needed.
My point goes along with what Diploid said.
Scape & Baggs,
I bet we will see a bigger V6 in the Escape and we will probably see a V6 in the CRV in a couple years.
Scape,
I think the CRV has much better plastic material on the top dash and the arm rest on the door is far superior. There really is no comparison there.
A lot of the plastic in the CRV and Escape is similar though.
I found it to be better looking, but just as hard in the end.
scape's right though, these are entry level vehicles and no one should expect much more that what they got.
There probably is truth to that. Didn't the Escape get a material upgrade for its plastics for the 2003 models???
I think you'll see a 200hp Hybrid CR-V before you see a V6.
I think it was just the leather that was upgraded. The door panels and such remained unchanged. I have not yet seen the interior of a 2003 up close though.
varmint,
I remember someone talking about that too. I think it was a door handle. I can't imagine how that happened though. You'd really have to pull hard.
Although I have to say that even the cheaper materials they use are higher in quality than in some other cars.