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USED European Luxury Cars (pre 1990)
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This raises a host of questions. For example, with cars such as the new Infiniti G35, Lexus LS, and Cadillac CTS arguably closing the performance, styling, and driving dynamics gaps with the European models, will the European cars continue to be relatively high cost rides? Or, will the competition force costs of operation to equalize? How much of the life cycle operating cost differential is attributable to the prestige of the marques?
Comments?
In other words, I think American drivers tend to "withdraw" from their car's bank account (that is, use the car) but do not "deposit" anything periodically except when the car begs for it.
Well, when an expensive German car begs for something, it doesn't hold out a small cup. It grabs you by the ankles and shakes you until all the coins roll out of your pocket.
You are MUCH better off giving that Benz or BMW the $1000 a year in fastidious maintenance and stop pretending it's a Camry. It's not. It is more complex than a Camry, and more narrowly engineered (that is, it does things with more precision).
Modern Japanese luxury cars or the German-American CTS will be hell to repair when they are old and out of warranty, if something major goes wrong. Pity the man, for instance, who has to replace the special shock absorbers/suspension on his older and now hard-riding Infiniti Q45. How does $4,500 sound?
I have seen a lot of older Japanese HighTech cars that require a ton of maintinence. Q45s? Supras?
Shifty is dead spot on on the Q45s with the computer-controlled shocks. A set of which ften exceed the cars' wholesale value!
Bill
To be fair, most European sedans have suffered, and will suffer, the same fate. But since Europe has produced many stylish coupes and roadsters in limited enough numbers in the past, large restoration costs do not deter the collector. But why try to restore a C5 Corvette when you can just go buy another? There must be 200,000 on the road. But a Z8, NSX, 911 Turbo, and maybe even a Viper, these cars will live on I think, despite the considerable complexity.
Most of the ones I've seen are not driven much anyway, so you'll see them around for some time. But you won't see them being dragged out of barns or from the bottom of lakes to be restored. If you crash an Allante, you'll probably junk it.
Of course, every man is free to restore whatever he wishes, be that a foolish economic move or not.
Basically, what I was saying is that any car with 400HP will always get some attention, unless the day comes when such cars are absolutely useless to drive. Even then, maybe they will end up like steam locomotives in a shed somewhere.
I don't think the Viper will ever be really valuable but I think most of these cars will be kept running by people who love them unless of course they are totalled.
Viper values haven't bottomed out yet and we don't know how low they will go. So far, they are just falling through $30,000 and may reach $25K or lower. If that is the case, a totalled Viper will not be restored I don't think as it would not pay to do so, and there are still perhaps 15,000 of them out there anyway.
Prowlers will be second-tier collectibles, minor celebrities like Deloreans and Studebakers. Again, I don't see them as becoming really valuable cars.
In any event, with continued developments in engine and drive train technology, Viper-like performance may become more commonplace (with better fuel consumption and driving comfort) -- who will then want a crude old-fashioned monster [particularly at a collector premium] when a modern, under-warranty and comfortable car can offer similar performance?
For that matter, a Gullwing is no joy to drive (the best kept secret of the 300SLs is that the roadster is cheaper and way more enjoyable to drive).
My one ride in one involved Long Island Expressway rush-hour traffic inJuly.
That SUCKED!
Bill
On the Barrett-Jackson auction on Speedvision,did anyone see the 300 SL convert? It looked like light lavender,and was the canvas top a darker lavender? Or do I need a new color TV? This combination isn't factory,is it?
Bill
However, the 528i is much more fun to drive, especially with a manual transmission. That would be an okay older BMW to own.
But the Bavaria being a dog...doesn't it have a 3 litre engine? With a four speed,I'd think it would be fairly peppy.
Also,wasn't it one of those Max Hoffman creations,like the Speedster and the 300SL convert?
I recall that Max suggested taking the 3.0 sedan,adding some options,getting rid of the leather,and lowering the price.
When new,the press seemed to be overjoyed at this new creation. So when I infrequently see one,I tend to give it respect.
Shifty,could you comment further on the Bavaria,please?
For all the pain, effort and money, just go buy a 5 series and be done with it. Much better car and far less hassles.
Early 70s 2002s are nice cars, if you can get used to the German Atomic Toaster styling. I don't think the 75-76s are as attractive, nor are they as fast, and obviously the market doesn't think so either, as 75-76s are priced lower than the early 70s models. The 2002Tii is a fun car, and really the only valuable 2002 worth collecting aside from the Baur convertible.
As for it's staying power, I admit our '71 280SL is more of an event when out driving but not a lot more than a 2002 Electron Blue Metallic Coupe. I know the C4's are not collector items but there are 14 years of them out there and some are in fantastic shape and in some cases seem to get better with age, and lots of care. Guess it goes back to all the electronics, not sure I would want to deal with HUD and DIC codes after more than 10 years myself if I could still afford the newer one. But that leaves all the older ones for guys that only drove Mustangs or F-Bodys until they could get into something more powerful, and they still have 350 hp.
Probably the worst thing you can say about them is that they are very boring to drive.
Indeed there are not many Peugeots on the roads anymore, but if they still have a Peugeot listing in the sunday paper here, there have to be more in bigger cities.
The 505 with the 2.0 and with the diesel were mechanically reliable, very similar in sturdiness and behavior to a Volvo 240. the V6 was another story.
The 405 and 406 were not as reliable, but the 406 which ended up not having a full product run here, is an amazing car. They worked out the reliability kinks and it went on to be one of Europe's best selling cars.
I think the 505s might be a 'bit' better, if only because they were sold in the U.S. for quite a bit longer. Still, I wouldn't consider one, unless you need unique driveway decoration.
Peugeots were neither German nor luxury. Discuss.
Well, we need a place to talk about old European cars.. and this is the closest it gets.
At least the German cars retain some resale value, so you can bail out if they become too demanding. And you can easily get parts and service for most older German automobiles.
Other German "dogs" I've driven: '86 Audi 5000S auto, '85 BMW 528e auto, '87 VW Fox 4-speed.