More than a few truck drivers need to understand and respect the nature of the beasts they are piloting.
Tailgating a car traveling at 70 mph does not show an understanding or respect for the different braking and handling capabilities of a big rig versus a passenger vehicle.
Taking 3 miles to pass another truck, because one truck is limited to 61 mph while the other is limited to 60 mph, can defined as "inconsiderate" by any standard.
I can't understand people who ride your bumper on residential streets with a posted speed limit of 25mph. Or, the one's who coming zipping down your street at 40+mph when there are children at play. :mad:
It's because there isn't enough volume for the cops to cherry-pick the speeders
My street is posted at 30...not many children about, but quite a few adult pedestrians...I often see cars zip by at 60+, because the cops stick to the higher volume streets.
The flip side to that are the ones who won't go more than 10MPH on a side street regardless of conditions.
Here is something very interesting, all the neighborhood streets in my area have 25 MPH speed limits. Even the ones that are through streets, except one through street that is posted 30MPH. Well the police keep setting up one of those mobile speed things, you know one of those things that has the speed limit on it and it shows your speed and flashes if you exceed the speed limit. Well they set it up on that 30MPH street set to 25 MPH. :confuse:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
We get our share of speeders but because our street isn't straight they can't get up to much speed. I think the best I have seen is 35-40. Not to mention that our town is speed bump central. Well they are really speed tables and if you hit them at 25MPH you usually won't have much of a problem, but I wouldn't go much faster than that over them.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Nope...just saying that truckers are responsible for their fair share of inconsiderate driving.
And more than a few of them don't respect the capabilities (or, more accurately, the limitations) of their vehicles anymore than drivers of passenger vehicles.
And since truckers are in a better position than anyone else to know those limitations, I hold them to a higher standard when doing something stupid (i.e., tailgating or blocking the passing lane).
Many smaller residential streets here have speedbumps. Unfortunately, I live downtown, and those would never fly. I also live on a small/moderate hill, which encourages them even more. Sometimes I'll hear a roar, and barely see a car fly by as it goes 60+++. It'll probably take a fatality to get the "speed enforcers" to wake up.
I agree with you totally. And if a trucker loses it, he can cause a lot more damage than if a car crashes. If the truck hits a car, in something like 90% of all fatal crashes, people in the car die (for obvious reasons).
You need to learn to be submissive to the bigger rigs because you will be safer when you are.
Sure, I am afraid of them like I am afraid of snakes. But, that does not mean that if I see a snake in my bedroom, I am going to leave my house, my family and go live elsewhere.
Probably it got lost, but all I am saying is that I am going to pass a truck at the earliest opportunity, I am not going to go out of my way to accommodate a trucker due to his special "needs" and I do not crave to become friends with truckers.
Finally, I consider those drivers that are too afraid to pass a truck as inconsiderate.
So what does that have to do about car drivers being aware of the nature of driving trucks and acting accordingly?
We were discussing giving a little extra leeway to truckers because of the size of their vehicles makes maneuvering difficult. Then you start rambling about how truckers are always tailgating and blocking lanes as if you're saying "why should I be considerate of them, I don't think they are considerate of me".
FWIW I get tailgated by very few trucks and tons of cars, and I would say 85-90% of those I see blocking a passing lane are cars.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Its not an issue of being afraid to pass the truck but an issue of not being able to pass safely. Remember the law says you cannot pass unless it is safe to do so, in the situation I gave it wasn't safe to do so until the truck completed its turn.
Do you pass on a narrow shoulder? Do you pass on a two lane road when oncoming traffic is way to close? If you say no then why do you complain when someone wont pass a truck when they know very well that the truck will be crossing over their lane?
If you say yes, I want to know how you lived so long.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I agree...I'm not saying that all truckers are inconsiderate drivers, but quite a few of them don't seem to appreciate the limitations of their vehicles. And they are in a better position to know and appreciate what those limitations mean than drivers of passenger vehicles.
And since truckers are in a better position than anyone else to know those limitations, I hold them to a higher standard when doing something stupid (i.e., tailgating or blocking the passing lane).
Hmmm, by that logic, big honkin SUV drivers should be very considerate :-P
snakeweasel: So what does that have to do about car drivers being aware of the nature of driving trucks and acting accordingly?
It has to do with this: based on the behavior exhibited by SOME truck drivers that I see, SOME truck drivers aren't aware of "the nature of driving trucks and acting accordingly."
snakeweasel: We were discussing giving a little extra leeway to truckers because of the size of their vehicles makes maneuvering difficult. Then you start rambling about how truckers are always tailgating and blocking lanes as if you're saying "why should I be considerate of them, I don't think they are considerate of me".
Let's start from the beginning:
1. You said that drivers of passenger cars need to respect the limitations of trucks. (For the record - I never disagreed with that statement, and still don't.) 2. I replied that, based on the behavior of some truck drivers I see on the road, the truck drivers themselves need to respect the limitations of their vehicles.
No rambling there. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
And please show me where I said that truck drivers are "always" blocking lanes or tailgating?
I'll make it easier for your - I never said that.
I said that some truck drivers engage in their FAIR SHARE of inconsiderate driving by exhibiting those behaviors on the road.
As for your statement: "as if you're saying "why should I be considerate of them, I don't think they are considerate of me".
Interesting, except that I never said that, or implied it.
li_sailor: Hmmm, by that logic, big honkin SUV drivers should be very considerate
Yes, I hold "big honkin SUV drivers" to a higher standard, too.
The flaw in your logic, however, is that I never said that truck drivers will be more considerate just because I expect them to know the limitations of their vehicles. The same would hold true for SUVs.
Just because someone holds the driver of a class of vehicle to a higher standard because of its inherent limitations does not meant that said drivers will live up to those expectations.
Well, I interpreted his statement a little different than you (I don't know or care who is right here).
I thought he meant that since they drive for a living and had to earn a tougher license (CDL) that they should be better drivers than Joe Schmo in his Tahoe or Mary Dupree in her Mazda 3.
The most that could be read into my post was that truckers aren't always the innocent victims of rude, inconsiderate drivers who don't respect the limitations of their vehicles.
That thought does not lead to the conclusion that because a few bad-apple truckers show inconsiderate behavior behind the wheel, that other drivers are free to ignore the inherent limitations of trucks.
The flaw in your logic, however, is that I never said that truck drivers will be more considerate just because I expect them to know the limitations of their vehicles.
Well, (as you would say) I never said "will". I said "should".
I think we need a court reporter in here. Perhaps we can get the NSA to eavesdrop
The most that could be read into my post was that truckers aren't always the innocent victims of rude, inconsiderate drivers who don't respect the limitations of their vehicles.
Oh, you underestimate what can be read into any given post
I think it's safe to say that truckers are not always victims and they are not always inconsiderate. Same for car drivers and SUV drivers. The jury is still out on those MVers and Segwayists.
As a former long haul truck driver, I felt I had to put in my 2 cents worth here. Yes, there are some bad truck drivers, as there are bad sedan, SUV, minivan drivers. What happens with a vehicle that can haul 80,000 lbs is that everything is magnified. I think some of the problem with the rash of truck/car accidents can be blamed on the companies that own or the driver works for. To explain: The company says they want the merchandise there in a certain time. I didn't feel some of these time frames were real world. So, to keep his job, the driver goes past his state/federal time behind the wheel to make up time. He/she keeps a log book on time driving, and time off. It's pretty easy to doctor up this log book. Some of the new trucks have electronic log books. I never dealt with those. So, the driver is tired, and makes mistakes. That's not saying it's all the companies fault. There are some "cowboys" out there. It used to be pro drivers were courteous, but I don't see that anymore. Part of the reason I got out of the business was above, and I was tired of being gone from home for long periods of time. Plus, now the Feds have allowed more weight/vehicle on the roads because of comlaints from companies that the time behind the wheel had to be shortened because of the rash of car/truck accidents. Also the companies are in direct competition with railroads that can haul more merchandise per mile than trucks.
I do admit that they are very rare and speeders vastly outnumber them but every so often I get behind someone and wonder "why don't they walk, they will get there faster".
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'd probably use that if my roads were littered with speed cameras too. Some of their roads have speed limits that change arbitrarily (like when they turn on the sign that says there's congestion ahead, even if there isn't), and a lot of people get caught out.
There was also a proposed product that would make your accelerator pedal a lot stiffer after reaching the speed limit. I'd dislike that one less.
I think we're 10-20 years away from this sort of thing here. Better get ready.
Will you let that one rest. Why are you the only one who thinks I was inconsiderate for not crashing my car into the side of a truck thereby blocking a busy intersection during rush hour?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
just wait until the first time a US driver (if they started that here) was in an accident becasue they tried to accelerate out of the way of another car, but their car said no!
One other big hurdle is the cost to retrofit the equipment. Who's going to pay for it? And if it just gets added to new cars, it would be a big mess.
I think they can get away with some of these ideas for London because it is a relatively small number of people that drive there, and they already charge them to do so! So, not a big stretch to say you need this gizmo if you want to drive in town.
I think what'll happen is that you'll get an insurance discount for having one of those, especially on your kid's car. Once more than half the drivers have switched over, it'll be more of a penalty if you don't use one. Then GEICO or one of the pickier companies will only insure people who use the device. Everyone else will follow and suddenly it'll be illegal not to have one (in a state with mandatory insurance).
I rented a motorhome (38 ft., diesel pusher, 4 slides) to northern California driving about 1,400 miles over two weeks.
This being my third year to do this, I wanted to see if I could maximize my mpg's. So, 99% of the time, I followed the "Trucks and cars with trailers maximum 55 MPH" signs; the regular speed limit was 65 or 70. I hope that I wasn't being too inconsiderate as I don't think there were many trucks following that rule but there were some. I manage to average 8.24 mpg on the 300 CAT engine.
Occaisionally, I would be on two lane mountain roads (Lake Tahoe) and I would pull off to let trafic around. Most of the time, the cars passing would give a quick toot to their horn in appreciation.
One thing that I found odd, on the interstates, I would flash my lights to let truckers in as they passed me. Of the many, many trucks that passed me, only one gave the "blinking light" signal of appreciation. In the past, whenever I would flash truckers in my car, they ALWAYS would give a signal of appreciation.
It made me wonder if Truckers don't like campers on the road, etc., maybe they thought we were a nuisance (?). Driving a vehicle with a gross weight of 38,000 lbs, I liked holding back and letting traffic pass. It makes for a more rested arrival and not feeling tensed.
mark156
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
I've been on I-5 south of Seattle a little bit in the past couple days. Here are my winners:
A first gen Neon pulling a U-Haul trailer creating chaos as it crawled down the freeway at no more than 30 mph. The thing was like a pylon, everyone was changing lanes to dodge it, and this created a little bottleneck. The stupidity of people amazes me...pulling a trailer with an old Neon, and then going half the limit? No WSP to be seen of course, they were busy protecting us from those scofflaws going 67 in a 60 no doubt.
The next was a black Ion driven by a 9000 year old man who hit the highway at about 40 and wound her up to about 45 before settling down. I saw this one about half a mile ahead, and I just knew it would play out to be a mess. It created another bottleneck as every other vehicle positioned to get around the geezer.
Same here in Birmingham, AL. I flash my lights to signal that I'm welcoming trucks to move over in front of me after passing...they return the "flash" 4 out of 5 times I do it.
Many do here in midOhio also. But the ones who seem to really appreciate it are the ones who need/want into your lane and you flash to let them know to come over in front of you so they can pass when they put that blinker on expecting the 4-wheeler to try to block them and get around them.
Hahahaha..... I live only 10 miles from the start of the highway and I've never even managed the trip to the Arctic Circle, let alone driven to Coldfoot or further north. I have lived here 11 years now. Give me a call when you get ready to drive it. :shades:
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Oh I am ready to do it, the problem is getting the time to do it and getting she who must be obeyed to join in. I will get back to Alaska someday but what I will do and where I will go is yet to be determined.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I live in London, and saw a similar article in the local press. It didn't seem to be imminent however, so I would assume this will come in after the plan for speed limiting on our motorways, which they have been threatening for some years. Not sure how they would get older cars limited but they are discussing a compulsory chip on the vehicle licence plate which could be used to trace via GPS, and I would imagine that would be used to monitor speeding. Re the cameras, I read somewhere that we have more CCTV in London than anywhere else on earth, but at least they have to show where speed cameras are - they are painted yellow - so you have a bit of a chance. Variable speed limit signs are actually quite useful sometimes on motorways, if they are used properly, but around London the roads are so full that you can come to a crawl before you get to the first 'slow down' sign, and sometimes they forget to turn them off so everybody goes back up to 85, while passing signs for about ten miles flashing 50. Worst of all for me was the time I was on the M25, the London ring road, and the signs on the overhead gantry were all set to 60, but as I approached one, the sign over my lane suddenly started to flash 50 then 40 - 30 - 20 - 10 - Stop, while on both sides they were still showing 60. It was obviously a mistake but the idiot in front of me started to brake heavily, and I had to go round him, which was exciting, as the adjoining lanes were pretty busy.... Despite the above, however, no-one here actually obeys speed limits closely, unless they are being followed by a cop, or they are learner drivers. On ordinary streets the limit is 30, and most people do 35/40, and the only way to get people to obey the more limited areas where there is a 20 zone (usually near schools etc) is to put in speed humps on the road, but even then small cars like mine tend to nip round them if possible - the only time when you can't speed near a school is when the kids are about and thats because all the parents drive up in their 4x4s or MPVs so the whole area jams up....
I am not sure who told you there are only a relatively small number of people who drive in London, but they must mean London Ontario or somewhere - we have continuous traffic day and night, and the rush 'hour' is 7am to about 10.30 and 15.30 to about 19.30 so it can be quite frustrating... The congestion zone (£8 per day) is only the central area of London, about 4 miles by 2.5 miles, it only applies 7.00 to 18.30 Monday to Friday, not at weekends or public holidays and outside the zone you don't have to pay any toll (apart from a couple of tunnels and bridges). If you live in the congestion zone you can get a season ticket discount so it costs about 10% of the charge the rest of us pay. I never go into the middle during the day anyway as I live about 8 or 9 miles out - still well within the built up area but suburban. The tubes etc are more use for central London, when they are behaving themselves and not subject to breakdowns or bomb scares (about every month for the last 30 years (at least) someone has caused one of these - it isn't a new phenomenon).
Comments
Tailgating a car traveling at 70 mph does not show an understanding or respect for the different braking and handling capabilities of a big rig versus a passenger vehicle.
Taking 3 miles to pass another truck, because one truck is limited to 61 mph while the other is limited to 60 mph, can defined as "inconsiderate" by any standard.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Or, the one's who coming zipping down your street at 40+mph when there are children at play. :mad:
My street is posted at 30...not many children about, but quite a few adult pedestrians...I often see cars zip by at 60+, because the cops stick to the higher volume streets.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Here is something very interesting, all the neighborhood streets in my area have 25 MPH speed limits. Even the ones that are through streets, except one through street that is posted 30MPH. Well the police keep setting up one of those mobile speed things, you know one of those things that has the speed limit on it and it shows your speed and flashes if you exceed the speed limit. Well they set it up on that 30MPH street set to 25 MPH. :confuse:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
And more than a few of them don't respect the capabilities (or, more accurately, the limitations) of their vehicles anymore than drivers of passenger vehicles.
And since truckers are in a better position than anyone else to know those limitations, I hold them to a higher standard when doing something stupid (i.e., tailgating or blocking the passing lane).
Sure, I am afraid of them like I am afraid of snakes. But, that does not mean that if I see a snake in my bedroom, I am going to leave my house, my family and go live elsewhere.
Probably it got lost, but all I am saying is that I am going to pass a truck at the earliest opportunity, I am not going to go out of my way to accommodate a trucker due to his special "needs" and I do not crave to become friends with truckers.
Finally, I consider those drivers that are too afraid to pass a truck as inconsiderate.
We were discussing giving a little extra leeway to truckers because of the size of their vehicles makes maneuvering difficult. Then you start rambling about how truckers are always tailgating and blocking lanes as if you're saying "why should I be considerate of them, I don't think they are considerate of me".
FWIW I get tailgated by very few trucks and tons of cars, and I would say 85-90% of those I see blocking a passing lane are cars.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Do you pass on a narrow shoulder? Do you pass on a two lane road when oncoming traffic is way to close? If you say no then why do you complain when someone wont pass a truck when they know very well that the truck will be crossing over their lane?
If you say yes, I want to know how you lived so long.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Hmmm, by that logic, big honkin SUV drivers should be very considerate :-P
It has to do with this: based on the behavior exhibited by SOME truck drivers that I see, SOME truck drivers aren't aware of "the nature of driving trucks and acting accordingly."
snakeweasel: We were discussing giving a little extra leeway to truckers because of the size of their vehicles makes maneuvering difficult. Then you start rambling about how truckers are always tailgating and blocking lanes as if you're saying "why should I be considerate of them, I don't think they are considerate of me".
Let's start from the beginning:
1. You said that drivers of passenger cars need to respect the limitations of trucks. (For the record - I never disagreed with that statement, and still don't.)
2. I replied that, based on the behavior of some truck drivers I see on the road, the truck drivers themselves need to respect the limitations of their vehicles.
No rambling there. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
And please show me where I said that truck drivers are "always" blocking lanes or tailgating?
I'll make it easier for your - I never said that.
I said that some truck drivers engage in their FAIR SHARE of inconsiderate driving by exhibiting those behaviors on the road.
As for your statement: "as if you're saying "why should I be considerate of them, I don't think they are considerate of me".
Interesting, except that I never said that, or implied it.
Yes, I hold "big honkin SUV drivers" to a higher standard, too.
The flaw in your logic, however, is that I never said that truck drivers will be more considerate just because I expect them to know the limitations of their vehicles. The same would hold true for SUVs.
Just because someone holds the driver of a class of vehicle to a higher standard because of its inherent limitations does not meant that said drivers will live up to those expectations.
I thought he meant that since they drive for a living and had to earn a tougher license (CDL) that they should be better drivers than Joe Schmo in his Tahoe or Mary Dupree in her Mazda 3.
And I agree with that ^
You never said it but you sure did imply it, there really was no other usage for that post.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That thought does not lead to the conclusion that because a few bad-apple truckers show inconsiderate behavior behind the wheel, that other drivers are free to ignore the inherent limitations of trucks.
Well, (as you would say) I never said "will". I said "should".
I think we need a court reporter in here. Perhaps we can get the NSA to eavesdrop
Oh, you underestimate what can be read into any given post
I think it's safe to say that truckers are not always victims and they are not always inconsiderate. Same for car drivers and SUV drivers. The jury is still out on those MVers and Segwayists.
What makes you think they are not?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Part of the reason I got out of the business was above, and I was tired of being gone from home for long periods of time. Plus, now the Feds have allowed more weight/vehicle on the roads because of comlaints from companies that the time behind the wheel had to be shortened because of the rash of car/truck accidents. Also the companies are in direct competition with railroads that can haul more merchandise per mile than trucks.
Just my input.
I don't think I've ever seen someone doing 10mph, unless they were delivering pizza looking for an address.
While 10mph is ridiculous, at least it keeps the kids safe(er).
I don't play video games.
I don't read or write blogs.
Other than that, I think you nailed it
Just pretend you're talking about other drivers and they won't notice the code words.
oops...
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
There was also a proposed product that would make your accelerator pedal a lot stiffer after reaching the speed limit. I'd dislike that one less.
I think we're 10-20 years away from this sort of thing here. Better get ready.
Also, they would be automatically slowed down if they attempted to pass a a low boy in the adjacent lane!
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
One other big hurdle is the cost to retrofit the equipment. Who's going to pay for it? And if it just gets added to new cars, it would be a big mess.
I think they can get away with some of these ideas for London because it is a relatively small number of people that drive there, and they already charge them to do so! So, not a big stretch to say you need this gizmo if you want to drive in town.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
This being my third year to do this, I wanted to see if I could maximize my mpg's. So, 99% of the time, I followed the "Trucks and cars with trailers maximum 55 MPH" signs; the regular speed limit was 65 or 70. I hope that I wasn't being too inconsiderate as I don't think there were many trucks following that rule but there were some. I manage to average 8.24 mpg on the 300 CAT engine.
Occaisionally, I would be on two lane mountain roads (Lake Tahoe) and I would pull off to let trafic around. Most of the time, the cars passing would give a quick toot to their horn in appreciation.
One thing that I found odd, on the interstates, I would flash my lights to let truckers in as they passed me. Of the many, many trucks that passed me, only one gave the "blinking light" signal of appreciation. In the past, whenever I would flash truckers in my car, they ALWAYS would give a signal of appreciation.
It made me wonder if Truckers don't like campers on the road, etc., maybe they thought we were a nuisance (?). Driving a vehicle with a gross weight of 38,000 lbs, I liked holding back and letting traffic pass. It makes for a more rested arrival and not feeling tensed.
mark156
A first gen Neon pulling a U-Haul trailer creating chaos as it crawled down the freeway at no more than 30 mph. The thing was like a pylon, everyone was changing lanes to dodge it, and this created a little bottleneck. The stupidity of people amazes me...pulling a trailer with an old Neon, and then going half the limit? No WSP to be seen of course, they were busy protecting us from those scofflaws going 67 in a 60 no doubt.
The next was a black Ion driven by a 9000 year old man who hit the highway at about 40 and wound her up to about 45 before settling down. I saw this one about half a mile ahead, and I just knew it would play out to be a mess. It created another bottleneck as every other vehicle positioned to get around the geezer.
On I-5 between LA and SF I see them signal all the time, including to cars who "spoke their language."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Re the cameras, I read somewhere that we have more CCTV in London than anywhere else on earth, but at least they have to show where speed cameras are - they are painted yellow - so you have a bit of a chance.
Variable speed limit signs are actually quite useful sometimes on motorways, if they are used properly, but around London the roads are so full that you can come to a crawl before you get to the first 'slow down' sign, and sometimes they forget to turn them off so everybody goes back up to 85, while passing signs for about ten miles flashing 50.
Worst of all for me was the time I was on the M25, the London ring road, and the signs on the overhead gantry were all set to 60, but as I approached one, the sign over my lane suddenly started to flash 50 then 40 - 30 - 20 - 10 - Stop, while on both sides they were still showing 60. It was obviously a mistake but the idiot in front of me started to brake heavily, and I had to go round him, which was exciting, as the adjoining lanes were pretty busy....
Despite the above, however, no-one here actually obeys speed limits closely, unless they are being followed by a cop, or they are learner drivers. On ordinary streets the limit is 30, and most people do 35/40, and the only way to get people to obey the more limited areas where there is a 20 zone (usually near schools etc) is to put in speed humps on the road, but even then small cars like mine tend to nip round them if possible - the only time when you can't speed near a school is when the kids are about and thats because all the parents drive up in their 4x4s or MPVs so the whole area jams up....
The congestion zone (£8 per day) is only the central area of London, about 4 miles by 2.5 miles, it only applies 7.00 to 18.30 Monday to Friday, not at weekends or public holidays and outside the zone you don't have to pay any toll (apart from a couple of tunnels and bridges). If you live in the congestion zone you can get a season ticket discount so it costs about 10% of the charge the rest of us pay. I never go into the middle during the day anyway as I live about 8 or 9 miles out - still well within the built up area but suburban.
The tubes etc are more use for central London, when they are behaving themselves and not subject to breakdowns or bomb scares (about every month for the last 30 years (at least) someone has caused one of these - it isn't a new phenomenon).
Thanks, Mark156