My question is this, What if the dealers don't have the car I'm looking for? I've been to the closest dealership to my house (that's where I did the test drive), and they don't have the car I'm interested in - when I first went in, they didn't even an XLE; they had the LE and an SE. They now have an XLE but not in the color I want, and it has none of the options I'm looking for.
Perhaps I'm just not clear on your "Jipst" method If you wouldn't mind, will you please clarify? Are you suggesting I go to each dealer and find a car similar to that which I want, and go from there?
Because as it is, I have already compiled a list of the exact things you mentioned in your post (minus the VIN #, of course), which is what I e-mailed to the Internet Managers. With all due respect, I'm not seeing the difference between what you suggested I do, and what I did do, with the exception of the fact that I've not been on the lot of each of the dealers.
If you don't get any acceptable responses by email, I guess you could go talk to them in person. That's one alternative.
The other alternative is to be less selective in your choice of cars. If you ask the dealer something like, "I am looking for an XLE V6 Camry. If you have one, what is your best OTD price?" Maybe they will respond to an email like that.
Toyotas seem to come with a bunch of different options so it may be hard to find the exact car you want. Please let us know how it turns out.
By the way, the one response you got seemed reasonable to me.
I've visited a few local dealers online, and I've not (yet) found a dealer with the XLE V6. It would seem that, while Toyotas themselves are ubiquitous, the XLE V6 seems to be a bit less so. Figures.
I will continue to check online inventories - I'll start in a few minutes, in fact!
I can understand why Toyota may be less responsive than other dealers due to their growing sales, but, sheesh ... what's the point of even having an Internet Department if they don't actually deal on the Internet!?!?
It's not that I'm concerned about whether I'll get a car - I'm not in a rush, I'm not short of money, and I have a car to drive - but the entire concept of dealing via the Internet seems to be somewhat of a sham if this is what I am to expect.
I also know that today's the first day I've sent e-mails, and my expectations of expediency may be unrealistic, so I may be prematurely over reacting. :-)
Wow, I'm actually typing to the originator of the famous (infamous?) Bobst Method! Cool. :-)
You're right, I may ultimately have to visit a few dealers in person. I have a week off work starting Friday, and I've got all of the papers, notes and information I've accumilated over the past few weeks consolidated into a nice folder. :-)
And, sure ... I guess I could be less picky as to the options I want - I could ratchet my list down a bit - but isn't the point of buying a new car actually getting what you WANT? Are you saying that I can find out what they have, and then have them add the options I'm looking for later? Or am I to look for less, ask for less, and, well ... get less. Bleh.
What about those folk who order their cars, isn't their reason for doing so because what they're looking for isn't on the lot, so they then order what they want for the best price possible? How do people go about ordering cars, anyways? Don't you just, you know, ORDER them - figure out the price and then order it? Guess I've been misunderstanding this process. :-(
I can imagine this post is sorta all over the map - truth be told it's a fairly accurate reflection of how my BRAIN feels at the moment - and I appreciate the indulgence of those of you who actually read it.
I need to get some rest because I work tomorrow (I get up at 0400), but I have full faith that I'll wake up with a renewed energy, motivation and excitement at this process (my first EVER), and that in the end ... I'll walk (drive) out of this a happy girl. :-)
So I just submitted the above post and was ready to prepare to get horizontal. I thought I'd check my e-mail before doing so, and this is what I found from one of the dealers to whom I'd sent an e-mail.
Here it is:
Hello Catherine,
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to earn your business. It was very nice to hear from you today. I have a 2007 Toyota Camry V6 XLE color Titanium Metallic with Ash leather interior arriving soon. The vehicle has a production date of 12/22/06. I will send out pricing information shortly.
Now THIS is more like it, now we're talkin'! I mean, at least there's a discussion to be had! What a completely different response he gave to my e-mail; and what a completely different response his e-mail elicited from me.
The first dealer's response left me feeling shut out from the very beginning; there was NO room for discussion. But this response provides me with an open door through which I may enter. I definitely prefer the latter over the former. :-)
I shall now go to sleep ... thankful that I checked my e-mail. :-)
Sounds like your last post indicated a dealership had what you were looking for. While I have my fingers crossed for you that this lead will pan out, I would remain cautious and not get my hopes up to high. Many dealerships will lead a customer into thinking they have what you want, then try the old "bait and switch" when you've become time invested into the negotiation process. Another discussion in Smart Shoppers "Dealerships to Busy for Online Shoppers" may also be of interest to you.
Often online dealer inventories aren't kept up to date. That's why I suggested visiting your local Toyota dealerships to see what they have. The reason I wouldn't call is often you will call, the dealership will say they have the car in stock, then you get there and it's "already been sold". What is different between the Jipst method and what you are doing, is that by going to the different dealerships I get rock solid confirmation that the car is there and available for sale. Dealerships will try much harder to sell the vehicles they have on the lot, then go to the added trouble of trying to locate one for an internet shopper. You're more likely to get a better deal with a car on the lot than one a dealership has to order or trade for.
Most internet managers don't want to give prices via e-mail because the customer will shop their price and end up buying from another dealership. Most internet salespeople will try to call you or get you to come into the dealership, rather then give you a price via e-mail. For these reasons many people feel the free internet price quote system is a sham.
But, you are right in trying to get the car you want. Don't settle for less if time or money is not much of a concern. If you have to order one or go into a dealership... we'll talk you through it. The fact that you have plenty of time works in your favor.
what's the point of even having an Internet Department if they don't actually deal on the Internet!?!?
It will vary a lot. I've had dealers who won't give firm prices by email and yet email things like "so can I expect you here tonight to sign and finalize this great deal" and others that give the all the information desired by email and no pressure to buy.
Glad to hear that you have at least one positive reply. Many internet departments have ONE person assigned to them. If you send an inquiry on their day off or vacation week, it could delay their response. Also, part of the reason why their on-line STOCK inventory isn't always up to date.
I was going to suggest asking for a Toyota XLE V6 in color XXXXX with options XXXXX that's "currently in-stock or in-transit". Sounds like your second dealer rep checked their in-bound and will work with you on it. You may receive additional replies by Friday.
Don't rush it...you know what you want...the car won't be delivered today...work with the best (price and integrity)...be honest in your deal and expect them to do the same...if they play games, tell them to help you understand why they must XXXXXX, make your decision (to drop any dishonest representation)... Best of luck!
Yes, it takes days... and you should leave yourself time to do this right! Dealers love nothing more than a person that must buy today. Response rates are not the best and you should expand your search to 20, 30 or more. I typically reach outside of my state just to get a better feel for the left tail of the price dispersion. You might be surprised that by driving 2-5 hours you may save $1-3k.
Personally, I think you are at a disadvantage if you make a personal appearance because you are a woman. Do not take it the wrong way, but salespeople think that women know nothing about cars... that is their stereotype. If I were you, I would only give them F. Lastname; I prefer to give them nothing because it allows me to email all Internet managers at the dealership (from different emails) if I so desire. I find that this strategy could keep one more informed without letting the other party know what is know. For example, I have found some folks less than honest about their inventory, "free care" services or their fees. A quick enquiry from "another" email account is a great way to dig up more details...
"this response provides me with an open door through which I may enter."
Yes, by all means, enter, but don't close the door behind you.
The sales person could be very friendly, but he may try to charge you way too much.
Do some research to determine a fair price for the car you want. The Prices Paid forum helped me sale about $700. There must be other places that give prices.
From my experience, the Edminds TMV price is way to high.
Bobst: do not complain too loudly about TMV or mods will delete your post or even ban you! I have compared TMV to basic internet price posting places like carsdirect and carmax and it sometimes thousands too high. TMV "secret" formulation is not worth much!
Dealers will understandably will not give you an OTD price because they know you will shop around their price.
I do not understand why some people are affraid to actualy go to the dealer... you are making a major purchase and the purchase can not be made upon the internet because at some point you will have to go to the dealer (most of the time).
The dealer is correct the price can change and they certainly wll not order a car based upon e-mail contact.
If you continue to shop via e-mail these are the type of responses you will get so and you will have a tough time purchasing a car.
"I do not understand why some people are affraid to actualy go to the dealer... you are making a major purchase and the purchase can not be made upon the internet because at some point you will have to go to the dealer (most of the time)."
I just bought over the internet, and I don't think it's about being afraid to go to the dealer. It's just a matter of preferred style, each of which can be appropriate for different situations.
At one extreme is traditional car buying, with a lot of horse trading and games. At the other extreme is the scion or saturn style rigid pricing. The latter pricing is probably higher than folks around this forum would get face-to-face, but lower than a rip off.
Internet buying is somewhere in between. The ease of the medium encourages less emotional attachment, less spontaneity, more fact-oriented negotiation. Less "being at the right place at the right time". But it's still negotiation.
The primary plus of the internet is you don't have to drive around. The big defect of internet negotiation is the same defect one finds with all internet communication: too much info and too easy to spew. Dealers have to deal with hoards of queries, most of them useless. Buyers have to deal with the fact most dealers are leery of putting in time for low-ball specifics to someone across a vacuum. You also lose the buyer's leverage of "cash in hand" and "walking out" etc.
I used the internet primarily because everything was in writing. Not only prices and terms, but also other dealer's bids. Since I am buying a Honda Fit--a car hard to find, and one that goes for msrp at best--the internet made sense. Less chance of bait-and-switch, adding on last-minute fees, or buying a car that didn't yet exist. It's not like I was going to get some terrific price: I just wanted a fair price and reasonable time-frame.
I ignored the dealers who refused to give me concrete figures in email and ones who only used the phone: that defeats the point of the internet. If I wanted that I would visit the dealer. I ignored dealers that had gimmicks like 'special internet pricing' that they wouldn't specify without coming in.
If I had been buying a different type of car I'd probably go in person to the dealership to maximize my leverage for cash-in-hand--say a model where the dealer was trying to clear old models, there was a glut, or the dealer had one on his lot ready to go. Unfortunately the boring low-end utilitarian Toyotas and Hondas I like never are like that. :-)
Ironically, I did find myself being somewhat less aggressive in negotiating in email than I am typically face to face. But that seems to fit the medium, which is typically businesslike and to the point.
Huh? We don't delete posts that are simply critical. However, I will tell you that TMV is based on data received from dealerships, and represents an average price paid for that vehicle in your area. It certainly doesn't represent the best price you can get.
A high TMV usually indicates that there are some folks paying a lot more for the vehicle than you would!
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"My question is this, What if the dealers don't have the car I'm looking for? I've been to the closest dealership to my house (that's where I did the test drive), and they don't have the car I'm interested in - when I first went in, they didn't even an XLE; they had the LE and an SE. They now have an XLE but not in the color I want, and it has none of the options I'm looking for."
I'm sure I'll get flack for this but: If you're really dead-set on a specific color and options, and the car is not available immediately in your vicinity, you might want to consider offering a "refundable deposit" on 12/28 to show good faith if they can show you a buy order with your car on it (either ordered or traded). That way the dealer would know you were serious and might be willing to work with you. Yes, you could go look at specific cars like jipster but that seems to go against your buying style.
I wanted to pop in for a minute to let you know that, while I've not posted for a couple days, I've been reading the board(s) daily and believe myself to be up-to-date. :-)
I'm writing this with the intentions of conveying just how much I appreciate the input of each and every one of you. It means so much to me to have a place like this, and people like you who take the time to share your experience and opinions.
If I were to address each of you individually with responses to your responses to my posts, I'd be here, like, ALL NIGHT, and the truth is ... I'd like to spend this Saturday evening away from the computer. :-)
But I do want to relay a big Thank-You to each of you - I've paid attention to, and taken away something from, every one of your posts! Really. I carry your words and suggestions with me everywhere I go.
I'm opting to hold off from posting until I'm at the end of this exciting journey - or unless I find myself in need of your wisdom, like, pronto! :-)
I'm feeling very good about this process, and in my ability to navigate my ship in a relatively straight course. I also realize that, unlike for some of you, it's gonna take a few days, which is fine with me. Time is on my side. And, besides ... What's that they say about Rome?
I will continue to peruse these boards daily, and if I don't "talk" to any of you beforehand, I wish all of you a wonderful new year!
Warm regards, Catherine
PS: I'm also going to post this on the "Prices Paid & Buying Experience" board, so if you see this over there, please do yourself a favor and skip right over it. :-)
I'm confused. I thought the Bobst method dictates that if your offer is refused you walk out, go to a DIFFERENT dealer and raise your offer by $100. Assuming enough dealers you will eventually hit a price that will be accepted. I never liked calling a dealer back after they have refused my offer because then my first offer wasn't FINAL and we would then start getting the BUMP. How long would you wait before calling a dealer back who refused your offer?
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Twice I called a dealer back and made an offer higher than the offer I had made before. Once I had the new offer accepted, and the other time they said they would get back to me but never did, so I bought a car somewhere else.
I don't have any problem making a new offer to the same dealer.
The main point to the patented Bobst Method is that you only make one offer on each visit to a dealer.
I don't understand negotiation. It seems logical that we should not increase our offer until we know our first offer has been refused. The only way we know it has been refused is to walk out and see if they follow us into the parking lot.
On our last three car purchases, we made offers, they were refused, we started walking out, and the offers were accepted.
Of course, sometimes people follow us around because my wife is very nice looking, but I am used to that.
This is my whole problem with even walking into the dealership: this creates problems when they know your name/look. If you email them from an email like oldfarmer50@something.com, you can "revisit" with another name and it does not create any "problems". You only really need to give them your name once they starting writing up a purchase order.
(I posted this last night over on the "Prices Paid & Buying Experiences," so I apologize for the redundancy - feel free to skip right on over this).
I thought I'd report in with my good news, which is that I just returned home from the dealer ... driving my new XLE V6!
I'm very pleased with the price I paid: $28, 217 without TTL; $30,498 w/TTL, OTD (for any of you inclined to to inform me I could have/should have done better, I respectfully request you refrain from sharing. First of all, it's a done deal; it would be completely moot at this point. And secondly ... I'm happy with my purchase, which is what matters most, right?)
It has a build date of 12/22/06 (I'd requested the car I buy be built after November). The color is Titanium Metallic exterior; Ash Leather Interior.
It's loaded (Nav; HD; SK; P2: WL; MG; Z1), with the exception of the VS. Apparently it's challenging to get cars in this region equipped with it, and since I'd rather not wait for one to be ordered (I could have waited; I merely opted not to), I chose to go with a car without it. I guess if you said I "settled" on anything this would have been it, and I'm OK with that.
Our interactions via e-mail were friendly, mutually respectful and up-front ... just how I had envisioned it to be! Since we'd already established a rapport, it felt like knew each other; it wasn't like walking in to a total stranger. And my experience at the dealer was absolutely fun, light and pleasant. We laughed a LOT, and it was enjoyable for all involved.
The price was agreed upon before I went in; there was no haggling once I got to the dealership. They had someone come out to pick me up (40 minutes away) since I wasn't going to be trading in my current vehicle.
Once I arrived, we went for a test drive, and he walked me through an overview of the car (Navigation, etc...). He spent a couple of hours with me reviewing; it is this which has left me exhausted, not because I was wore down from the back-and-forth pricing stuff - there's a lot to know about this car!
I enjoyed the F&I guy, merely because I was prepared as to what to expect as a result of reading the forums here (you guys ROCK!); had I not been prepared, who KNOWS what I would have walked out buying!
I just smiled and repeated "No, thank you" a lot. He was surprised I was getting such a low price for the Premium Warranty, and once he realized I wasn't going to alter my plan, he offered me the warranty for the same price! I politely declined; I'd already mentally committed to the gentleman from Midwest, as he was so helpful and informational.
I had gone in pre-approved for financing at an APR of 6.09%, but when he said that he could give me 6%,I took it. Though it's not that great of a difference, when it comes to things of this nature every bit counts!
I've left out a lot of the details of how I got to where I was and how we agreed upon the price, but I'm just too tired to go into it at the moment. Suffice it to say I'm satisfied.
I just want to thank you all, once again, for participating on these boards. I couldn't have done it without the various forums I've been regularly reading - the information here is invaluable - and what I've learned has turned what may have been unpleasant, stressful and unnecessarily expensive into an adventure over which I felt in control, informed and prepared. Yay!
Based on this experience, I would say I'm quite glad that the option of doing this over the Internet exists. I'd certainly consider doing it again this way. :-)
It's so weird to see this new vehicle sitting side-by-side to my current car, but I think I can get used to it.
Just because I've bought the car doesn't mean I won't be keeping current with the boards; there's information to be learned with regards to ALL stages of vehicle ownership.
You can't sell outside of your zip code defined market?
A more clear-cut illegal franchise provision can scarely be imagined.
Glad I always refuse to provide my zip when asked while buying at all too many stores. If I gave it while shopping out of town, perhaps they too would refuse to sell to me.
Oh we can sell outside our market territory if we want but it means those sales don't count towards objectives, don't qualify for bonus money, don't count towards extra volume allocation, and most importantly those sales don't qualify for business builder payments.
All of that adds up to thousands of dollars of potential lost revenue if a rover is sold to a residence outside our zip code range.
Well it is not like our market area is small. We can sell to almost any zip code in CT (there is some overlap among the territories) the eastern edge of NY, western Mass and southern VT.
Congrats on the new car purchase Catherine!!! Sounds like you found a good dealer to work with and it was a pleasent experience. I hope you can reward him with servicing the vehicle there.
Controling pricing is certainly illegal but "adjusting" incentives in an attemp to segment the market probably passes the legality test. However, it is certainly "NOT NICE" and basically has the same effect as price manipulation.:mad: Some of these practices could explain Rover's tiny market share and lack of good profits... Frankly, this brand was dominating the SUV segment before it was a segment but it failed to cash in on that trend.
I typically do not give my name, zip, etc, :confuse: but at some places you cannot request a quote without a number. Irony is that the systems often do not check if it real or even yours. This is not the kind information I like giving out because I have no benefit at all to disclose it. Basically, you can make it all up if want, just make sure it is not too obvious like: Joe Buyer... In fact, you can email a person from one account and then a few days later try a very different approach from another email. It is like seeing someone's openning (in chess) and them playing them again and assuming their opening is the same, which it often is... :shades:
I think there are online buyers that are of the same mind set so that folks like BR would never get our business!
that's probably because you don't have to pay for that lead then... right?
doesn't matter... all buyers shop around. all buyers use every internet lead provider for a price quote. all buyers send in a request via the local dealers web site, which is easily found on the manufactures site, all buyers shop at least 3 dealers before they sign on the bottom-line, everybody knows *that*.
Some people are simply too busy for all of that. They will ask a family member or friend for a referral. They will go to that person for a quick, painless deal.
Not everybody is hellbound to squeeze the last dime out of a deal!
It is not about squeezing pennies, it is about getting the best value.
Some of us would be happy to pay extra for the effortless deal, however, the system is intentionally designed to waste consumer time (because it is free to the dealer). Thus, a spiral of distrust and ugliness is maintained ...
Im not a broker, Im sorry that we in the auto indusrty have created the need for someone like me. Just read these threads. People dont like to deal with car salemen. After 10 years and well over 1 thousand cars sold the one thing I know for sure is people despise the car buying process.
I know, it sat there for nearly TWO HOURS!! Kinda un-freakin'-believable that I wasn't sitting at my computer hitting "refresh" on this discussion all day in case someone made an inappropriate post. :confuse:
There... whew... I got that off my chest. Thanks to a kind member for the e-mail heads-up on the out-of-line post!
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"They will go to that person for a quick, painless deal."
by quick, painless deal do you mean something like if you can't over change your friend, who can you?
Either way, someone may show an invoice and say $100 over it plus tax, license and doc. Sadly, there might be a $3000 cash incentive to the dealer. Now that's a friend, one of those quick, painless deals. If a person doesn't shop at *least* three dealers then they pretty much get what they deserve.
That is right, ShopAround! IMHO: A reference is not a substitute for doing your own research. My preference is to get 20+ email quotes!
I have had the pleasure of getting references for a few salespeople and most were nice enough and the deals would have been "easy". However, they typically did try to charge "more". Furthermore, doing business with a friend or a relative can have pretty nasty side-effects.
If you want to minimize search costs because you are super wealthy and/or short on time, referals are for you!
Rover, you already admited that rover incentive structure is as such that that many quotes would "NOT" work.
I admit to using references to buy things when I must have instant service: my heating is out and it is freezing out! If I needed a vehicle in 2 hours, I would also do the same. However, spending 20-30 hours is not a problem if the pay off is $2-3k (after taxes).
Example: I recently contacted a dealer and he was very nice and told me that they are a no-haggle dealership and then proceeded to give me a quote on a vehicle with 2k miles when I can buy one with 20-50 miles form a dozen places for same or even far less if I were to shop around a bit more.
This is the landscape in which buyers operate. What do you think we should do so that we do not get ripped off?
Comments
My question is this, What if the dealers don't have the car I'm looking for? I've been to the closest dealership to my house (that's where I did the test drive), and they don't have the car I'm interested in - when I first went in, they didn't even an XLE; they had the LE and an SE. They now have an XLE but not in the color I want, and it has none of the options I'm looking for.
Perhaps I'm just not clear on your "Jipst" method
Because as it is, I have already compiled a list of the exact things you mentioned in your post (minus the VIN #, of course), which is what I e-mailed to the Internet Managers. With all due respect, I'm not seeing the difference between what you suggested I do, and what I did do, with the exception of the fact that I've not been on the lot of each of the dealers.
I'm interested in your comments!
Catherine
The other alternative is to be less selective in your choice of cars. If you ask the dealer something like, "I am looking for an XLE V6 Camry. If you have one, what is your best OTD price?" Maybe they will respond to an email like that.
Toyotas seem to come with a bunch of different options so it may be hard to find the exact car you want. Please let us know how it turns out.
By the way, the one response you got seemed reasonable to me.
I will continue to check online inventories - I'll start in a few minutes, in fact!
I can understand why Toyota may be less responsive than other dealers due to their growing sales, but, sheesh ... what's the point of even having an Internet Department if they don't actually deal on the Internet!?!?
It's not that I'm concerned about whether I'll get a car - I'm not in a rush, I'm not short of money, and I have a car to drive - but the entire concept of dealing via the Internet seems to be somewhat of a sham if this is what I am to expect.
I also know that today's the first day I've sent e-mails, and my expectations of expediency may be unrealistic, so I may be prematurely over reacting. :-)
Catherine
Wow, I'm actually typing to the originator of the famous (infamous?) Bobst Method! Cool. :-)
You're right, I may ultimately have to visit a few dealers in person. I have a week off work starting Friday, and I've got all of the papers, notes and information I've accumilated over the past few weeks consolidated into a nice folder. :-)
And, sure ... I guess I could be less picky as to the options I want - I could ratchet my list down a bit - but isn't the point of buying a new car actually getting what you WANT? Are you saying that I can find out what they have, and then have them add the options I'm looking for later? Or am I to look for less, ask for less, and, well ... get less. Bleh.
What about those folk who order their cars, isn't their reason for doing so because what they're looking for isn't on the lot, so they then order what they want for the best price possible? How do people go about ordering cars, anyways? Don't you just, you know, ORDER them - figure out the price and then order it? Guess I've been misunderstanding this process. :-(
I can imagine this post is sorta all over the map - truth be told it's a fairly accurate reflection of how my BRAIN feels at the moment - and I appreciate the indulgence of those of you who actually read it.
I need to get some rest because I work tomorrow (I get up at 0400), but I have full faith that I'll wake up with a renewed energy, motivation and excitement at this process (my first EVER), and that in the end ... I'll walk (drive) out of this a happy girl. :-)
Thanks to each of you for your input. Really.
Catherine
.
Here it is:
Hello Catherine,
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to earn your business. It was very nice to hear from you today. I have a 2007 Toyota Camry V6 XLE color Titanium Metallic with Ash leather interior arriving soon. The vehicle has a production date of 12/22/06. I will send out pricing information shortly.
Now THIS is more like it, now we're talkin'! I mean, at least there's a discussion to be had! What a completely different response he gave to my e-mail; and what a completely different response his e-mail elicited from me.
The first dealer's response left me feeling shut out from the very beginning; there was NO room for discussion. But this response provides me with an open door through which I may enter. I definitely prefer the latter over the former. :-)
I shall now go to sleep ... thankful that I checked my e-mail. :-)
Catherine
Often online dealer inventories aren't kept up to date. That's why I suggested visiting your local Toyota dealerships to see what they have. The reason I wouldn't call is often you will call, the dealership will say they have the car in stock, then you get there and it's "already been sold". What is different between the Jipst method and what you are doing, is that by going to the different dealerships I get rock solid confirmation that the car is there and available for sale. Dealerships will try much harder to sell the vehicles they have on the lot, then go to the added trouble of trying to locate one for an internet shopper. You're more likely to get a better deal with a car on the lot than one a dealership has to order or trade for.
Most internet managers don't want to give prices via e-mail because the customer will shop their price and end up buying from another dealership. Most internet salespeople will try to call you or get you to come into the dealership, rather then give you a price via e-mail. For these reasons many people feel the free internet price quote system is a sham.
But, you are right in trying to get the car you want. Don't settle for less if time or money is not much of a concern. If you have to order one or go into a dealership... we'll talk you through it.
It will vary a lot. I've had dealers who won't give firm prices by email and yet email things like "so can I expect you here tonight to sign and finalize this great deal" and others that give the all the information desired by email and no pressure to buy.
I was going to suggest asking for a Toyota XLE V6 in color XXXXX with options XXXXX that's "currently in-stock or in-transit". Sounds like your second dealer rep checked their in-bound and will work with you on it. You may receive additional replies by Friday.
Don't rush it...you know what you want...the car won't be delivered today...work with the best (price and integrity)...be honest in your deal and expect them to do the same...if they play games, tell them to help you understand why they must XXXXXX, make your decision (to drop any dishonest representation)... Best of luck!
Personally, I think you are at a disadvantage if you make a personal appearance because you are a woman. Do not take it the wrong way, but salespeople think that women know nothing about cars... that is their stereotype. If I were you, I would only give them F. Lastname; I prefer to give them nothing because it allows me to email all Internet managers at the dealership (from different emails) if I so desire. I find that this strategy could keep one more informed without letting the other party know what is know. For example, I have found some folks less than honest about their inventory, "free care" services or their fees. A quick enquiry from "another" email account is a great way to dig up more details...
I don't know how general that is but such salespeople are certainly placing themselves at a severe market disadvantage.
tidester, host
Yes, by all means, enter, but don't close the door behind you.
The sales person could be very friendly, but he may try to charge you way too much.
Do some research to determine a fair price for the car you want. The Prices Paid forum helped me sale about $700. There must be other places that give prices.
From my experience, the Edminds TMV price is way to high.
Dealers will understandably will not give you an OTD price because they know you will shop around their price.
I do not understand why some people are affraid to actualy go to the dealer... you are making a major purchase and the purchase can not be made upon the internet because at some point you will have to go to the dealer (most of the time).
The dealer is correct the price can change and they certainly wll not order a car based upon e-mail contact.
If you continue to shop via e-mail these are the type of responses you will get so and you will have a tough time purchasing a car.
I just bought over the internet, and I don't think it's about being afraid to go to the dealer. It's just a matter of preferred style, each of which can be appropriate for different situations.
At one extreme is traditional car buying, with a lot of horse trading and games. At the other extreme is the scion or saturn style rigid pricing. The latter pricing is probably higher than folks around this forum would get face-to-face, but lower than a rip off.
Internet buying is somewhere in between. The ease of the medium encourages less emotional attachment, less spontaneity, more fact-oriented negotiation. Less "being at the right place at the right time". But it's still negotiation.
The primary plus of the internet is you don't have to drive around. The big defect of internet negotiation is the same defect one finds with all internet communication: too much info and too easy to spew. Dealers have to deal with hoards of queries, most of them useless. Buyers have to deal with the fact most dealers are leery of putting in time for low-ball specifics to someone across a vacuum. You also lose the buyer's leverage of "cash in hand" and "walking out" etc.
I used the internet primarily because everything was in writing. Not only prices and terms, but also other dealer's bids. Since I am buying a Honda Fit--a car hard to find, and one that goes for msrp at best--the internet made sense. Less chance of bait-and-switch, adding on last-minute fees, or buying a car that didn't yet exist. It's not like I was going to get some terrific price: I just wanted a fair price and reasonable time-frame.
I ignored the dealers who refused to give me concrete figures in email and ones who only used the phone: that defeats the point of the internet. If I wanted that I would visit the dealer. I ignored dealers that had gimmicks like 'special internet pricing' that they wouldn't specify without coming in.
If I had been buying a different type of car I'd probably go in person to the dealership to maximize my leverage for cash-in-hand--say a model where the dealer was trying to clear old models, there was a glut, or the dealer had one on his lot ready to go. Unfortunately the boring low-end utilitarian Toyotas and Hondas I like never are like that. :-)
Ironically, I did find myself being somewhat less aggressive in negotiating in email than I am typically face to face. But that seems to fit the medium, which is typically businesslike and to the point.
A high TMV usually indicates that there are some folks paying a lot more for the vehicle than you would!
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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I'm sure I'll get flack for this but: If you're really dead-set on a specific color and options, and the car is not available immediately in your vicinity, you might want to consider offering a "refundable deposit" on 12/28 to show good faith if they can show you a buy order with your car on it (either ordered or traded). That way the dealer would know you were serious and might be willing to work with you. Yes, you could go look at specific cars like jipster but that seems to go against your buying style.
I'm writing this with the intentions of conveying just how much I appreciate the input of each and every one of you. It means so much to me to have a place like this, and people like you who take the time to share your experience and opinions.
If I were to address each of you individually with responses to your responses to my posts, I'd be here, like, ALL NIGHT, and the truth is ... I'd like to spend this Saturday evening away from the computer. :-)
But I do want to relay a big Thank-You to each of you - I've paid attention to, and taken away something from, every one of your posts! Really. I carry your words and suggestions with me everywhere I go.
I'm opting to hold off from posting until I'm at the end of this exciting journey - or unless I find myself in need of your wisdom, like, pronto! :-)
I'm feeling very good about this process, and in my ability to navigate my ship in a relatively straight course. I also realize that, unlike for some of you, it's gonna take a few days, which is fine with me. Time is on my side. And, besides ... What's that they say about Rome?
I will continue to peruse these boards daily, and if I don't "talk" to any of you beforehand, I wish all of you a wonderful new year!
Warm regards,
Catherine
PS: I'm also going to post this on the "Prices Paid & Buying Experience" board, so if you see this over there, please do yourself a favor and skip right over it. :-)
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I don't have any problem making a new offer to the same dealer.
The main point to the patented Bobst Method is that you only make one offer on each visit to a dealer.
I don't understand negotiation. It seems logical that we should not increase our offer until we know our first offer has been refused. The only way we know it has been refused is to walk out and see if they follow us into the parking lot.
On our last three car purchases, we made offers, they were refused, we started walking out, and the offers were accepted.
Of course, sometimes people follow us around because my wife is very nice looking, but I am used to that.
I thought I'd report in with my good news, which is that I just returned home from the dealer ... driving my new XLE V6!
I'm very pleased with the price I paid: $28, 217 without TTL; $30,498 w/TTL, OTD (for any of you inclined to to inform me I could have/should have done better, I respectfully request you refrain from sharing. First of all, it's a done deal; it would be completely moot at this point. And secondly ... I'm happy with my purchase, which is what matters most, right?)
It has a build date of 12/22/06 (I'd requested the car I buy be built after November). The color is Titanium Metallic exterior; Ash Leather Interior.
It's loaded (Nav; HD; SK; P2: WL; MG; Z1), with the exception of the VS. Apparently it's challenging to get cars in this region equipped with it, and since I'd rather not wait for one to be ordered (I could have waited; I merely opted not to), I chose to go with a car without it. I guess if you said I "settled" on anything this would have been it, and I'm OK with that.
Our interactions via e-mail were friendly, mutually respectful and up-front ... just how I had envisioned it to be! Since we'd already established a rapport, it felt like knew each other; it wasn't like walking in to a total stranger. And my experience at the dealer was absolutely fun, light and pleasant. We laughed a LOT, and it was enjoyable for all involved.
The price was agreed upon before I went in; there was no haggling once I got to the dealership. They had someone come out to pick me up (40 minutes away) since I wasn't going to be trading in my current vehicle.
Once I arrived, we went for a test drive, and he walked me through an overview of the car (Navigation, etc...). He spent a couple of hours with me reviewing; it is this which has left me exhausted, not because I was wore down from the back-and-forth pricing stuff - there's a lot to know about this car!
I enjoyed the F&I guy, merely because I was prepared as to what to expect as a result of reading the forums here (you guys ROCK!); had I not been prepared, who KNOWS what I would have walked out buying!
I just smiled and repeated "No, thank you" a lot. He was surprised I was getting such a low price for the Premium Warranty, and once he realized I wasn't going to alter my plan, he offered me the warranty for the same price! I politely declined; I'd already mentally committed to the gentleman from Midwest, as he was so helpful and informational.
I had gone in pre-approved for financing at an APR of 6.09%, but when he said that he could give me 6%,I took it. Though it's not that great of a difference, when it comes to things of this nature every bit counts!
I've left out a lot of the details of how I got to where I was and how we agreed upon the price, but I'm just too tired to go into it at the moment. Suffice it to say I'm satisfied.
I just want to thank you all, once again, for participating on these boards. I couldn't have done it without the various forums I've been regularly reading - the information here is invaluable - and what I've learned has turned what may have been unpleasant, stressful and unnecessarily expensive into an adventure over which I felt in control, informed and prepared. Yay!
Based on this experience, I would say I'm quite glad that the option of doing this over the Internet exists. I'd certainly consider doing it again this way. :-)
It's so weird to see this new vehicle sitting side-by-side to my current car, but I think I can get used to it.
Just because I've bought the car doesn't mean I won't be keeping current with the boards; there's information to be learned with regards to ALL stages of vehicle ownership.
I wish you all a wonderful new year!
Warm regards,
Catherine
We are trying to enforce a policy that without a Full name, phone number and address we will not provide a quote.
Since our market territory is tightly defined by zip codes we can't sell outside of our market without risking loss of allocation and bonus money.
A more clear-cut illegal franchise provision can scarely be imagined.
Glad I always refuse to provide my zip when asked while buying at all too many stores. If I gave it while shopping out of town, perhaps they too would refuse to sell to me.
All of that adds up to thousands of dollars of potential lost revenue if a rover is sold to a residence outside our zip code range.
You got that right.
Glad to hear everything worked out so well for you Catherine. A build date of 12/22/06... WOW... talk about your new car smell. Enjoy.
Probably a good third or more of my sales are to people in other market areas.
I typically do not give my name, zip, etc, :confuse: but at some places you cannot request a quote without a number. Irony is that the systems often do not check if it real or even yours. This is not the kind information I like giving out because I have no benefit at all to disclose it. Basically, you can make it all up if want, just make sure it is not too obvious like: Joe Buyer... In fact, you can email a person from one account and then a few days later try a very different approach from another email. It is like seeing someone's openning (in chess) and them playing them again and assuming their opening is the same, which it often is... :shades:
I think there are online buyers that are of the same mind set so that folks like BR would never get our business!
So, I probably wouldn't get your business but that's O.K.
doesn't matter... all buyers shop around. all buyers use every internet lead provider for a price quote. all buyers send in a request via the local dealers web site, which is easily found on the manufactures site, all buyers shop at least 3 dealers before they sign on the bottom-line, everybody knows *that*.
Some people are simply too busy for all of that. They will ask a family member or friend for a referral. They will go to that person for a quick, painless deal.
Not everybody is hellbound to squeeze the last dime out of a deal!
Some of us would be happy to pay extra for the effortless deal, however, the system is intentionally designed to waste consumer time (because it is free to the dealer). Thus, a spiral of distrust and ugliness is maintained ...
Ask someone you know for a referral.
People don't like paying middlemen either.
I can't believe the hosts haven't seen (and deleted)your post by now!!
If they use them anymore we could risk causing a china syndrome event.
Actually, we've been having a slight glitch with our mail system. Authors of missing posts can expect a "belated greeting."
tidester, host
There... whew... I got that off my chest. Thanks to a kind member for the e-mail heads-up on the out-of-line post!
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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by quick, painless deal do you mean something like if you can't over change your friend, who can you?
Either way, someone may show an invoice and say $100 over it plus tax, license and doc. Sadly, there might be a $3000 cash incentive to the dealer. Now that's a friend, one of those quick, painless deals. If a person doesn't shop at *least* three dealers then they pretty much get what they deserve.
I have had the pleasure of getting references for a few salespeople and most were nice enough and the deals would have been "easy". However, they typically did try to charge "more". Furthermore, doing business with a friend or a relative can have pretty nasty side-effects.
If you want to minimize search costs because you are super wealthy and/or short on time, referals are for you!
Comments like that make me glad I don't work at a volume low-line store.
I admit to using references to buy things when I must have instant service: my heating is out and it is freezing out! If I needed a vehicle in 2 hours, I would also do the same. However, spending 20-30 hours is not a problem if the pay off is $2-3k (after taxes).
Example: I recently contacted a dealer and he was very nice and told me that they are a no-haggle dealership and then proceeded to give me a quote on a vehicle with 2k miles when I can buy one with 20-50 miles form a dozen places for same or even far less if I were to shop around a bit more.
This is the landscape in which buyers operate. What do you think we should do so that we do not get ripped off?