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Comments
buy...There are no facitities at Auto Shows to print conracts, DMV docs, etc.
Typically cars that are presented at Auto Shows are the newest offerings...Discounts are available on older, more readily available items...Just like every other commodity...
There is a big difference between life without dealerships and life without car salesmen. The service department is the one that keeps my car running. The sales department... they're the ones who buy me a can of Coke or Pepsi once every few years. They are far more dispensible--I can get my own can from the vending machine.
Tony
I guess you're right, that's what this discussion is all about: buying cars on the Internet, eliminating the hassle of traditional sales.
Tony
"I'm soooooo confused." ~ Fonzie
If manufacturers sold direct to the consumer, cutting out the "middle men/women", what a world!
Who would sell "Mop and Glow", overpriced accecessories, stereo upgrades and gasp....pin striping and window etching.....LOL.
Why the cost alone to the cheap suit manufacturing industry would be terrible....:)
Colors on the 'net also look identical to real life, so no problems there. Or yo could just sit on the side of the road, waiting for all the variations of a model to go by.
All kidding aside, cars and houses are 2 big ticket items that can be researched to death on the internet, but have to be experienced in person before you buy (for ost people).
Dealers serve a valuable purpose, it just seems to be the sales process that people don't like, not the convenience of picking up a fully prepped car, and having someone show you how it works, not to mention doing all the paperwork for you.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
BUY DIRECT! That's the way!
Hey, sounds good to me! Sense more consumers are becoming informed due to the internet, less need for non-value added parts of the sales chain, in cars apples or potatoes. Oh and less games to boot.
Other than laws in states that protect the dealership model, very little in the way of progress to a new model of distribution, i.e. direct sales IMHO. Wonder when Wally's world will start selling cars?
Most of the stuff you mention - prep, paperwork, warranty service, eyeball shopping, etc. - could be (and, will be, IMO) easily worked around once manufacturers and customers recognize the benefits and savings.
I don't see dealerships totally eliminated, but already there are good alternatives to 'old school' sales; and the market for that can only grow as sales floor customers continue to get jerked around AND come to recognize it's not necessary.
Just a few years ago there was a very substantial automaker who purchased quite a few major dealer groups all around the country...they filled the showrooms with factory trained product specialists, instituted a low one price selling philosophy, built beautiful, bright and well staffed dealerships etc. Just what consumers told them they wanted...They failed to realize that consuemrs say one thing but do something else.
The local independent dealers clobbered them and essentially wiped them out of business. The major mfg sold all the dealerships back to local dealers and crawled back to corp hq with their tails between their legs and checkbook a few billions lighter.
I'm pretty sure BMW owns the Westchester BMW store.
I think also that a manufacturer w/o a large market share would have the most incentive to make a major alternatives sales effort.
Suzuki?
How are things in the world of Subee??
online and most of my emails to dealers asking for
a price quote on a specific unit ARE IGNORED!!
Why would dealers do that, you ask? Cuz they
want me to CALL them so that they can make all
sorts of promises they can deny later! Dealers
make their profits by obscuring the deal, and many
just won't respond to one's emails.
This is particularly acute in limited compet'n
areas such as Hawaii. I'm so tired of getting
NO responses and NO cooperation from Hawaii stores
who routinely rip off the customers for thousands
ABOVE msrp that I'm on the verge of buying used
from Hertz, just cuz I can pull up data & PRICE
on hertzcarsales.com. Cars must be the only
product in America getting the real price is a
challenge----I'm a real estate investor and even
on apartment buildings the Agent will help you
come to a "real" value...amazing, huh....
SO, onine shopping IS simple...and in Calif I
find half the dealers are willing to respond...but
if you're in a small or remote town forget it!
p.s. ever known a poor car dealer?? (NOT
salesman, I said "dealer")...
of the internet deal is that you request a deal
upfront...if the dealer condescends to respond, if
the price is close to Edmunds TMV or Cars Direct.
com or your bookstore-bought price guide, then you
go ahead and go to the dealer to complete, right??
If the price is out of line, I say don't give
that dealer another shot at your business. I feel
the net quote should be "real", and, if not, then
try to find another dealer...and I don't mean you
should walk over $100 on a $20K to $40K vehicle,
either!
I'm moving to Volvo at the end of the month, and already have meetings going regarding the business development end of it.
I'm selling cars like crazy, though! It's fun being back in the game. I hope to have at least 20 burning gas by the 31st.
Thought about dropping the manufacturer a complaint? I've read here on Edmunds that some dealers only have an internet dept because the manufacturer forces them to. I'm wondering what the manufacturer would think about the lousy service and price gouging.
Most deaalers aren't dumb enough to give you a number to shop.
A method that works better wold be to offer a price. " I'm willing to pay 20,775 for your car"
Or better yet, why not go in (gasp)in person?
Pick out a car you like, and make them a serious, committed offer to buy.
Also...sorry...but judging by the tone of your post, you are hostile toward the car business. This may show in your e-mails and perhaps that's why you are being ignored.
If you want to buy a car, follow Isell's advice. I know that some people don't like the car buying experience, but if you have a definite plan and stick to it, you can enjoy it and get a car for a decent price.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/faq/rizzo.html
Good luck!
Tony
Perhaps you prefer to go down to the dealer's showroom, spend the whole day negotiating with manipulative salespeople and end up paying close to MSRP!
"Want that car with or without the lube job, sir?"
Is that a rhetorical question?
I will say that if you want to get the absolute lowest, no doubt about it, my neighbor won't beat me on this, price, then, yeah, you got to phone, fax, and/or visit every dealer in a 100 mile radius. I was willing to accept that my price was probably $200-300 above the "absolute lowest" to spare myself that hassle.
I agree with you, but in order for you to 'know what you're willing to pay' you have to 'do your homework' on the internet first. When you have the right info you can go either way: contact different dealers with your offer, or go down to a certain dealer and 'cut to the chase'!
Of course, the salesman has to go talk to the sales manager, so we wait around for 5 or 10 minutes looking at the car brochures or other new cars in the showroom. No problem.
Of course, many of our offers are turned down. If that happens, we leave.
Violinist's point was about using remote buying to eliminate a portion of the hooey, and I still think his method has value. I did essentially the same thing only via the net; and the result was to eliminate a bunch of driving around, pointless jabbering, and attempts to strike a deal where we just weren't close enough to begin with.
It beats me why one dealership is willing to sell at $1-2K less than another; and, frankly, I don't much care. As buyer, I wanna find out which is which with the least hassle and buy the durned car.
'Tain't a date; it's a deal.
audi--I believe what you are saying about the manufacturer direct disaster, but your explanation leaves me wanting for more accurate info on this matter. It is hard for me to believe that if a store was as nice as what you describe with knowledge product specialist and the lowest price in town, that they failed. They may have had a low price, but if they were undercut by other local dealers, then that explains their failure. They would have to be willing to (as one local add in my paper says) "beat anyone elses best price by $500".
The internet has definately changed car buying. In pre internet days dealerships had to support every aspect of the car buying experience, including reasearch and pricing. IMHO, the discusion here is about these roles changing. Yes we need dealerships to look and test drive cars and to prep and deliver cars. We need dealerships for service, etc. But like what has been said earlier, it is basically state laws that are making buyers buy from dealerships, no market forces. Buyers can research technical aspects, prices, etc online. Buyers can use phone and email to get prices (when the dealers are willing to sell this way). The role of the dealership and the salesman is changing. It is sad to see this great new idea being wasted. It held such promise when first introduced, but unfortunately has been manipulated into just another lead feeder for dealerships. No one, except carsdirect.com has real pricing online, no one will email a real price quote without you giving a bunch of personal info, and very few dealers have accurate up to date inventory info on the web.
"no one will email a real price quote without you giving a bunch of personal info" - not entirely so. Maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of the dealerships I contacted via their own websites responded with competitive quotes, and there was no personal info in my quote requests beyond an e-mail address. I've described the tone of my quote requests above, and I think an intelligent person would infer from my request that I was a serious buyer seeking to narrow down the field before beginning more specific negotiations. Several dealerships 'got it', and we moved forward.
"very few dealers have accurate up to date inventory info on the web" - I didn't verify accuracy, but most of the dealerships (Honda) I approached had online inventory searches, which I believe were accurate. Of course, the way Honda merchandises (trim lines with few options) works well for this; but I believe even manufacturers which play the option game (Toyota, for example) could be well shopped if the customer is wanting a common build.
My take on the market in my area (West Tenn) was that some dealerships support an effective net sales effort while some simply use traditional sales methods on the internet. The beauty of it, for me the buyer, was that I could separate one from the other and cut through a huge amount of traditional sales hooey.
My other big take was that once you've struck an initial deal via the net, the dealer has a chance (mine took it) to run the old games.
Having a straightforward buying option is a wonderful aid, even if one chooses to 'deal' with a 'dealer'.
LOL, 'offering a price first' is totally different when you've got control over the time you spend and real alternatives to the 'negotiation' you're involved with at the moment.
I enjoy visiting dealers and making an offer face-to-face with a salesman. Other people like to do most of their negotiations over the internet. Whichever method you like, it really is nice when you find a way to make car buying more fun and still get a great deal.
With almost 100% certainty I bet if you walk on to landru's car lot and ask for the price of a vehicle he will quote you MSRP. This has happened to me a noumber of times. Kinda funny I guess. This seems like a big waste of time to me. It seems better to let the salesman know up front that you have done your research and that you know the vehicle you are looking at sells for $100 over invoice in your area. At one dealership the price went from MSRP to $2000 below invoice in about 20 minutes.
rivertown...great observations. i was also basing my posts on shopping from last spring. I got very few email price quotes back and the services like ABT and Stoneage are a joke. I have learned from here that sending an email with every dealer cc'd is not the way to go. I was thinking of writing an email and sending it to each dealer individually. Maybe some prose about a friend bought there and they said they got a really good price with not a lot of hassle. At least for the first round. Of course then, I would take the low bidder and see who could beat it. Should I sign the bottom "Who wants to sell a car today?" LOL
I agree, the multiple copies aren't the way to go.
I dunno, but I'm beginning to wonder if my experience wasn't uniquely good.
I was shopping/buying Honda for an over supplied car; there were Si's not selling like hotcakes. Maybe that was part of it.
It seems like Honda was really encouraging net sales. The sites were good - inventory searches and quote request forms. And, though a few dealers didn't have sites, most seemed to. And there was a good dealer find function on the Honda USA site.
Rather than e-mail, I used the quote request form available on the dealer sites. So, no dupes.
I filled out the request form completely and truthfully - with one exception. I gave no identifying info beyond my e-mail address. Where a phone or address was required, I put in an obvious dummy - along with a request to contact me only by e-mail; and where last name was required, I typed in 'none'.
In the comment section, I simply told the truth - that I was replacing a totalled car, that I expected the claim to be settled within 2 weeks, and that was my time frame for completing a purchase. I also said I'd be using either my bank or the dealership for financing, depending on the rate.
Some dealers replied immediately (within 2 hours) with a competitive quote. Others replied with 'questions', LOL. When the questions were legit, I replied quickly and truthfully (the only real choice to be made with that model is color). When the questions were sales hooey, I replied quickly, courteously, and directly: "Thanks for your reply, yada yada. I'd appreciate a quote on an '02 Civic Si, out-the-door price not including TTL. Before taking more of your time and mine, I want to find out if we're in the same ballpark with price."
In retrospect, I think it was clear that I was serious prospect who knew what he wanted carwise and that I just wasn't gonna play haggle games. I think it also helped that I didn't need to mess around with a trade-in and that I wasn't a problem financing case. I hope I'm not replacing a total again in the future, and my plan is to sell my trade-in privately - just to keep the deal simple. BTW, the reasons for my 'out-the-door not including TTL' request were that I live within 300 miles of several states AND that I wanted to cut out ALL of the haggle room.
Truly, about 1/2 the dealerships I contacted this way were willing and able to play by these rules. One even offered a competitive price, to complete the deal remotely, and to deliver the car and the final paperwork to my door. Very Cool!
Having thought a lot about it since Dec, I think the keys are to be serious about wanting a specific car, to use the net tools that are in place, to simplify the deal like you should anyhow, and stick to one's own buying plan. (This included a couple of replies reading, "Thank you for the info. I'll get back with you when I've seen some other quotes.") Honda, I think, is set up to do business like this. Other lines with an 'options sales strategy', like Toyota for example, could be bought the same way, I think, by visiting a lot or two to see what the common builds are.
Doing the MSRP haggle dance just isn't necessary, I'm convinced, unless, of course, the car one wants to buy is really selling at MSRP.
P.S. If anybody's interested, I'll share some of the hooey responses I got and the outcomes of those interactions.
Perhaps you could talk about how in a seance with your late grandmother, she told you to buy from dealer x, and that the final price would be 4k below invoice. People generally don't wanna mess with the dead, so they'll probably give it to you no questions asked!
So my question is this:
How SHOULD I respond to a customer that has obviously taken the time to educate themself and knows what they want, but it is either unavailable, or I need some other piece of info? Do I send a quote on something close just to show that I'm willing? Also, on the "Best price on Camry" customer, should I fish for more info, or, as other dealers seem to be doing, quote an LE 4cyl 5spd. with no added options? What is the best way to ask for more info, even complicated info, while still showing that as soon as I get my ducks in a row, a price will be forthcoming?