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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,095
    Ok, Mr. shipo-smarty-pants. Now that you've explained that, can you please explain how the Pats lost the Super Bowl??? :cry:

    Sorry, still having flashbacks... :sick:


    '13 Jaguar XF, possibly my favorite of all the cars I've owned. But, my '09 Jag XK was a beauty, as was my '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco (my first!). And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... Ok, I like a lot of the cars in my life.

  • smacdsmacd Posts: 1
    I bought new an 03 CL Type S (last year for the coupe) and it has been an awesome car. Only normal maintenance and I am at 96K miles. Excellent product, I am going to get the the 09 TSX too.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,609
    Giants were more connected to the desire to win...simple as that! More efficient parts in the GIANT Engine than NEP motor!

    NEP = GM

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,095
    "NEP = GM "

    Now, that was uncalled for, OW! Low blow! 15 yard penalty and loss of down! :sick:

    '13 Jaguar XF, possibly my favorite of all the cars I've owned. But, my '09 Jag XK was a beauty, as was my '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco (my first!). And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... Ok, I like a lot of the cars in my life.

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,609
    Sorry, the last time I got to vent as a Giants fan... :confuse:

    I apologize!

  • bfluegiebfluegie Posts: 21
    I’m looking for a new (to me) ride. I don’t have to decide just now, but probably sometime in the next couple of months. I thought I’d post this here as well as on the “help me decide” forum because this seems to be a very active discussion. Some of the cars I am considering do fit this category, so it’s not too much of a stretch. What I am considering is a (probably) pre-owned BMW 325xi (maybe a 330xi if the deal is right, but I’m not too sure I want a turbo), G35x (I have VPP so I might go new for this), Audi A3 or A4 (I like the A3 better but they’re hard to find in the northern IN vicinity), Acura TSX or maybe TL, but it’s larger and I don’t like it as much. I might consider the Altima coupe as well, but not the sedan. While I like the sedan styling more than the Accord or Camry, I don’t like it as much as the Infinity, and the Altima sedans are everywhere. I don’t want to put my car away for the winter, so I prefer all wheel or front wheel drive. That leaves out the Infinity G-coupe (sigh) and the BMW 3 series coupe. I know several people who drive the G coupe and they either garage it for the winter or get adequate but not great driving with winter tires. I prefer the security of good winter handling. I haven’t completely ruled out a small SUV or crossover, but after 8 years of driving an Exploder I’m ready for a more responsive ride. I joke about the Explorer, but with the exception of an unfortunate “Bambi” incident I have never been left stranded. No significant repairs other than normal wear and tear either. It just has over 130K miles and it is time to move on to something else. As long as I’m moving on, I want to add some fun. I won’t be racing or pushing for maximum speed, but I do like the feel of a car that you don’t have to slow to a crawl when going around a curve. I suppose I want to feel like I am part of a driving system rather than the occupant of a vehicle.

    I would consider a 2006-2007, maybe a 2005 as well. I know the Infinity was a new model in 2007 but I like the previous model as well. The BMW was a new model in 2006 and I don’t know anything about the 2005. I might be overlooking something else as well, so any suggestions for additional cars to consider (or avoid) are welcome. I’m considering a manual in the BMW or A4 but I didn’t like the manual in the ‘07 TL I drove (the clutch seemed to have a very tiny “sweet spot” and it didn’t help that the salesperson sneered a little when I lurched on a start). I don’t know if the TSX would be any better. The G35X is only available in an auto. Manual vs. auto isn’t a big factor for me so I probably wouldn’t rule out an auto BMW or Audi either. Since I’m going to continue getting older and creakier, the auto might be a smarter choice, just not as much fun in the pre-creaky years.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    You have a wide range of requirements...but you didn't clarify the price range you're looking for or any requirement for seating/space.

    I'm also assuming you're looking at purchasing as opposed to leasing

    For coupes...If you don't need back seat room very often a TT would be a nice "cool" coupe to have (2.0T FWD). A new Accord Coupe with the I4 5spd would be very economical but look a little different than everything else. I'm a big fan of the A5 (S-line)...especially the S5 (love the torque...gets pricey)...A5 with FWD and manual (s-line) starts in the low 40's. And of course the new BMW 1 series.

    4-doors...If you can wait the new A4 looks very interesting...the base IS250 can be had with manual and it starts our at a reasonable price...though NOT FWD (have yet to drive). I recently drove a CTS (doesn't get much love) both high end and base (manual) and found them very compelling (but probably not for my $'s)

    Manual...If you're weighing the pros and cos of a manual versus automatic you can check out VW's DSG. Last year I drove a VW Jetta fahrenheit and it was the most amazing FWD car I've driven (was 27k ish...)

    Non-Domestic? Most of you choices seem to be "non-domestic" If you want FWD you can add Volvo (S30, S40). Saab 08, 9-3 Turbo X looks aggressive.
  • alltorquealltorque Posts: 535
    Volvo C30 is cute but quite small and only 2 doors, (+hatch of course). S40 is nice and about 3-series size. S60 is a tad bigger than the 3-series, (but only a tad), and gets my vote - biased owner; albeit a diesel with Geartronic. S80 is well worth a look.

    Saab's are rated a bit so-so here in U.K. but are premium priced. Audi good in whatever size. A6 is about S80 size.

    Can't comment on the others, apart from VW, but the current ones are good.
  • bfluegiebfluegie Posts: 21
    Thanks for the input Ivan. While I have not ruled out domestic, I haven't found the blend of performance, features, and solid feel in many domestic cars. Pricewise, I'm trying to stay in the mid 30s or lower. While I could afford more, that's where the comfort zone starts to end and the panic zone begins. The A5 could get me to make an exception, though. Seeing that beauty in my garage every morning could calm a lot of panic.

    I hadn't considered the Jetta Fahrenheit and I will have to check it out. I have driven the DSG, though in an A3 Quattro. I really liked that car. I forgot the A4 was heading for a redesign. I'll have to check that out as well. The current CTS looks sharp and I can get the supplier discount (below invoice) so I might look there as well. Thank you for some very good suggestions.
  • bfluegiebfluegie Posts: 21
    Thanks for the input. I forgot to add in my reply to ivan_99 that I might look at the Volvos as well. I get the supplier discount on them as well so I could get a little more car there as well. I have always liked the looks of the Saab 9-3 (especially the convertible) but the reliability issues I have read about have made me cautious. The Edmunds review posted earlier in this forum makes it seem worth a look as well. I'm not sure about the pricing, but looking is fun.

    Thanks again.
  • r34r34 Posts: 178
    Saab is not much worse than Audi and is probably better than Volvo and VW.
    As long as you take your car to a good dealer (usually a Saab or European cars only dealership) or a good indy, you should be fine. Saab is more generous on warranty work too (what is covered).

    Saab is more a driver's car than Volvo, even a Volvo salesman admitted that (I went to a Saab/Volvo/Cad dealership to test drive a V6 9-3).

    They have a lot of incentives. If you get it at the right time, you can save several thousands (usually $3000-$5000. With this economy, there may be more).

    If you are buying a used European car, you may want to get a certified one. Parts and services could be expensive after the warranty expired.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    I don't know... The last time I was in a Toyota dealership, the prices for used parts were approaching Mercedes levels of insanity. And Volvo was just as bad.
  • bruceomegabruceomega Posts: 250

    FYI, the BMW 3 series coupes are also available in AWD.

    I don't know if you're open to a small, fun to drive SUV, but you might want to look at the BMW X3. We went to the dealer with the idea of trading in my wife's '01 330Xi for a new, at that time, '06 330Xi, but she ended up getting the X3 and loves it. We find it a lot of fun to drive for a vehicle with it's capabilities. I once had an Explorer as a loaner, and the X3 is a very different kind of vehicle. Also, the X3 can be had with a manual.

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    2009 A4 2.0 TFSI Sedan quattro tiptronic

    Premium Plus

    Phantom Black

    Beige Leather

    Wood Interior Trim

    19" Sport Package

    Navigation package with camera

    Audi Drive select

    Sun shades

    Going from a 2005 A6 3.2 with all the options except sunshades and sport suspension. . .read the pre reports, checked out a 2008 A6 (seemed identical to mine save for back up camera and SLine trim bits) -- my first four cylinder in my own vehicle since my 1980 4000S.

    Torque looks awesome, weight advantage of the 2.0 would seem a plus too. . .

    Also a pearl black car is a new for me too.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 64,637

    I'm surprised you didn't go for the 6-cylinder...


    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,935
    Have you (here or elsewhere ) written out your
    thought process of elimination?
    - Ray
    Just curious...
    2016 BMW 340i
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 11,317
    :sick: Your wife's new X3 is a slushbox (as opposed to her '05 which was a 6-spped) and now you've ordered an A4 with a slushbox? You feelin' OK?

    Congrats & best of luck to you!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Infiniti G37x Q40 AWD

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    Why pay $5,300 MORE for a car that has a heavier front end, takes more gasoline to propel it and has 15 ft lbs less torque -- and that the torque it does have comes on at thousands of rpm's higher?

    I had an allroad 2.7T and I had also had three Audi cars with the 4.2 V8 (one A8 and two A6's) -- so when it came time to order the allroad, I test drove another sort of similar car, an A6 2.7T.

    Torque rules.

    And in the example above, the V8 had 295 ft pounds of torque vs the V6's 258 ft pounds, yet the V6 was quicker because the torque came on (in the V6) at below 2,000 RPMs and the V8 didn't come up to full boil until north of 3500 RPMs.

    In this case, the new 2.0TFSI has 258 ft pounds, below 2000 rpms and the 3.2FSI has 243 at north of 3200 rpms -- this is a no brainer.

    The V6 IMHO is for the consumer who wants to talk about the 265HP V6 (despite its lower torque.)

    Had Audi offered the engine competing with the BMW 335 i6 turbo, well, that might have been a horse(power) of a different color.

    I believe the A4 2.0T will be the car of choice for about 10-12 months in the A4 family; the V6 being offered solely for marketing reasons ("wouldn't do," to have this car without a V6 in the brochure, kind of thing.)

    I may, but I doubt it, regret this decision. But the handling, mileage and performance of the 2.0TFSI should be superior in Cincinnati OH (where it will see most of its duty.) It will easily top any speed limit we have in these parts (just as easily as the V6) and its quickness, for a while at least, will be unequaled -- at least until the supercharged V6 comes out in a year or so.

    Another A6 3.2 certainly was an option -- but the new A4 will have a 110+" wheel base, the A6 is 111+" -- the balance, RWD biased quattro, sport package and other amenities and luxuries in the premium plus package makes the A4 2.0TFSI a "better" choice for someone who wants CTS style luxury (at least) and very BMW like performance and handling -- in a handsome package.


    Perhaps -- but there are just too many head to head (A4 vs A6) test reports and reviews of this new A4 to make me wonder "who in their right mind would pay MORE for less?" -- and that seems to make the case in favor of the A4 (B8) 2.0T with "all the option boxes ticked off -- except ACC."

    So, we'll see how much under $50K this comes out to be -- and hopefully I will not regret not going with my second choice: the new Infiniti G37X 4 door sedan.

    FWIW, my dealer says this car should be comparable in MSRP to the outgoing model + about $2,000 for the Audi Drive Select and a "few hundred" more for the addition of a backup camera.

    Time will tell -- and I WILL share the good, the bad and the expensive with y'all.

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    My wife recently took a job in the CBD of Cincinnati -- seemed difficult for her ever get out of third gear -- just no fun with the stick (for her.)

    I virtually hated my automatic (5 speed tiptronic) transmissions in my previous Audis -- love the automatic in my 2005 A6 3.2. I drive some 15+ miles to work most of it on I275/I71 in Cincinnati. When I am in any "fun place" to drive the stick, the traffic is often all tangled up.

    With automatics THIS good -- I rarely miss the sticks.

    I did test drive a new S5 -- wheeeeeeeee -- now THAT was a blast. But truth be told, the same pain in the butt traffic issues would apply even with that one.

    I have officially joined the ranks of those who, while I did not kill the stick shift, certainly are preventing its resurection. To those of you who won't go shiftless, I apologize -- I am keenly aware of your pain (past tense.) :cry:

    I would have loved a 7speed DSG even more, I'm sure -- just not avail this time.

    Also not this time, torque vectoring, which I would have PAID extra for. :surprise:
  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    I did test drive a new S5 -- wheeeeeeeee -- now THAT was a blast. But truth be told, the same pain in the butt traffic issues would apply even with that one.

    I have to say the world is getting smaller a car like the S5 with such power but where to drive when u will be stuck in traffic :confuse:

    Congrats on your new car. I want to get a car I really like the A4 but I am more interested to get an SUV I like the Q5 but I wish audi would consider yet bringing another SUV perhaps a Q6 in the near future, My friend he is interested to get the A4 but he has a big problem his decisioncan changes within a second !!!
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    S5...but where to drive when u will be stuck in traffic

    I took out an A5 Sline and S5 after work during rush hour...I was able to find enough room to get up to speed; the S5 doesn't need much room. the Audi (Delphi) magneto (wasn't he in Spiderman...or XMen) suspension.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    If I'm open to look at a lot of different brands, which near luxury sedans have the hottest lease deals for a 15K per mile lease?
    I'm open to 2 or 3 year leases, but assume 3 year leases will have much lower payments, so I would more likely do a 45K 3 year mile lease than a 30K 2 year mile lease.

    I'm looking for the lowest combination of total costs (lease payments + maintenance and wear etc.). For instance I know BMWs include free scheduled maintenance, but many cars with "Sport" packages and 18" performance tires can cost thousands extra in 3 years due to tires that don't last long and are ultra expensive to replace.

    If I were to lease one of these vehicles, I would want automatic transmission, premium package with heated leather seats and moonroof, bluetooth. Must not have low treadlife 18"+ sport performance tires. Factory nav would be a plus if any would still fit the price range even with nav.

    Can less than $450 before tax be done with $0 cap reduction on any of these cars with that equipment based on realistically available discounts in California?

    328i, G35 sedan, C300 Luxury, TL, TSX, ES350, are some that I'd like to consider.
  • bruceomegabruceomega Posts: 250
    ..... and hopefully I will not regret not going with my second choice: the new Infiniti G37X 4 door sedan .....


    Has a G37 sedan been anounced?

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Nope. No such thing.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    Technically, not yet.
  • ghstudioghstudio Posts: 970
    G35 sedan would fall in your price range...below $450 before tax.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    I thought I might need to buy a Lexus for a quiet ride, but I found the 3 series to be surprisingly quiet. Not LS460 dead silence, but seemed about as quiet as an ES to me when I drove it regardless of what any db meters may say.
    I ended up buying a 328i.
    From inside with the windows closed, the turn signals are most noticeable noise at times:
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Yep, it's a German Buick.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    You must've bought one without the Sport package. I had a 328i loaner last week (non-Sport), and I was also surprised at how quite the ride is. And yes, the turn signal is a little obnoxious. I've driven a 335i Sport and it wasn't very quiet at all. I'd still buy one, though! Amazing how much of a difference tires can make.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    no, the sport package still feels like a Buick.
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