[quote]My Forester has it on the driver's side, and the position means you pretty much have to find a certain side free at the gas station.[/quote]
My Forester has it on the passenger's side. Did they flip-flop it from '98 to '00?
Bob: Yes I recognize the safety problems of the rear center gas filler. Neither the 'Stang nor the Stude have head rests on their seats - can you say 'whiplash'? I knew you could. ;-) A filler behind the rear window and ahead of the trunk opening on a sedan might be okay though.
Also, you'll have people filling their tanks with both fillers opened (Poodle in microwave theory).... and probably over fill their tank and not know until gas spurts out the other end.
Oops, my goof, I meant passenger side. See? I have to keep trying to remember!
Bob: Ford didn't raise Expedition prices at all, isn't that funny? Shows how soft the big SUV market is, and how strong the luxury SUV market is (with huge increases for the Nav).
I was browsing Fitzmall.com, and found some interesting downward trends in pricing.
H6 Outback sedans have reached as low as $25,249. I had predicted $25k would come soon. There is a regional incentive of $500, and I predict $750 will come back, since that was offered last year. $25k is more like it. $33k really was ridiculous.
At $25k, I think I can get the wife to try one. Still, if the rebate hits $750, and they offer a manual for $770 less, that would be $24,229. That would be pretty easy to talk her into. C'mon Subaru.
Highlanders have dropped in price, too. They now have 4x4 V6 models under $28k, they used to be well into the 30s. Even with a moonroof it's under $29k, but that's without leather, which she wants. So it's still a stretch.
Avalanche for $23k? Oh, 4x2. Still, not bad. They have Grand Cherokees for $23,937, and that used to be a $28 grand vehicle. Most Troopers run $25 grand, but I predict that will dip further by fall.
So, profit margins on trucks is way down. I recall Jeep said it made $8,000 profit on each Grand Cherokee, but with these prices it's about half that much probably.
are hard to come by. A lot of dealers are not even stocking them. It's funny cause the Assender is being delayed til Dec now due to crash-test problems.
Yeah I just read that too. Although, they're raising prices of the similar Navigator. Maybe they're hoping whatever they lose on the Expedition, they make up on the Navigator, or at least some of it?
I haven't visited the Fits site in some time. That is good news, however—especially about the Highlander.
I missed that - it'll be an Audi, not a VW. OK, now the Mercedes target makes more sense (I was thinking Chrysler Pacifica). They'd better fix that hideously ugly rear first.
Even the Focus offers stability control. It's a mainstream technology now. Subaru has to work on something else to make the VDC stand out.
It appears slightly different from what was shown at Detroit: Smaller tires? Different bumpers? Different taillights and hatch? Not sure what it is, but it appears different.
As of this post, there are 46 pages (x 8 images each) of new cars from the NY Auto Show. It will be updated, as new models are announced, with more pages today, I'm sure. No new Subies yet.
The Pilot is almost indistinguishable from the new CR-V IMO. Like paisan, I like the boxy Element too, but those fold-flat-into-a-bed front seats have been around since the days of the bathtub Nashes. My '63 Stude has them as well.
Why kill a good thing? I can do the same thing with my trooper seats as well The Pilot looks exactly like a freekin CRV! I can tell Honda thought long and hard about that shape, have some imagination people!
or is the Saturn Ion sedan looking like the new Altima from the side and rear?...like that Solstice! From the rear...the Solstice coupe has a somewhat Cheetah-ish look
when you see a Pilot next to a CRV, you will see the Pilot to be much larger—much like a MB E-Class, as is compared to a C-Class. Clearly Honda is trying to establish a "Honda SUV look," from model to model, just like the Germans do.
Personaly, I don't care where the gas cap and filler are. I just wish the manufactures would all put them on the SAME side. That would end so much confusion at a crowded gas station!
generally, most vehicles have but one outlet in the bumper for the exhaust. it's no coincidence that the gas cap is always on the opposite side of the exhaust.
some cars do have dual exhausts with one on each side of the bumper though and I haven't seen many fires from those.
Then you would only have one side of the pumps being used at a time. Most of them have a label on the dash now so you can look and see which side it's on. I think most have it on the drivers side cause whenever I fill up with my Trooper it's on the pass side and I zip right in.
paisan: I didn't mean to come across as saying the fold-flat seats were a bad idea - heck I can get the Forester's to do the same - just that Honda shouldn't try passing them off as innovation.
Interesting observation; I never noticed that before.
Bob
<< generally, most vehicles have but one outlet in the bumper for the exhaust. it's no coincidence that the gas cap is always on the opposite side of the exhaust. >>
I love the marketing departments.... Most of em are soooo ofbase it isn't funny. Don't get me started as to how sucky the Isuzu one is. They should have been marketing the inovations of the Trooper for years it was ahead of all the other SUVs (first with power retracting side mirrors '92-'02, largest moonroof of any suv on the market '92-'02, the list goes on) But nooooooo they don't even think of marketing those items.
It's got a hole in the roof over the cargo area, for tall stuff; check out the image with the surf board sticking out the roof!
This thing will be hot among younger buyers. Whereas the CRV may appear to be a "stuffy, old folks car" to them, this won't. I predict it will be a HUGE hit for Honda.
I find the looks to be refreshingly different. The colored panels break up the boxy slab sides very nicely. The vehicle, IMO, is far more interesting to look at with these colored panels. An Aztek, it is not...
Suicide doors are common on pickups. I'm telling ya, it's going to be a huge hit!
I agree with Bob, the two-tone Element is a bit over-the-top, but I'm older than their target buyer.
The functionality is truly refreshing. For once, a crossover actually does something your basic station wagon does not - easy and flexible cargo hauling.
I give Honda a big thumbs up. Isn't it refreshing to actually see some DESIGN coming out of Honda? They have a patent on "boring". The Element will be a hit with the young crowd.
The Pilot is the polar opposite - very safe and generic looking. That's OK, I think it's understated and will appeal to people who need a minivan but want an SUV. Like my wife. That's the idea. I like it.
Look how wide the middle seat is - truly comfy 3 across seating. The 3rd row even split folds, which the Odyssey doesn't do. The room behind the 3rd row matches the immense Navigator, even. Honda is excellent at space utilization. Thumbs up.
$26-32 grand? On the Ody, the EX costs $2500 more, leather yet another $1500. So that's $30 grand even for an EX/leather, like the wife wants. It's a bit of a stretch, but it does come closest to meeting all of our criteria. We'll definitely check one out.
Ion sedan looks weird. I see a Neon rear end grafted onto a CTS profile. Curves and creased boxy edges too mixed up. The two-tone makes it look a bit obscure, at least the sedan.
The coupe I like much better. The overall look is more finished, consitent. Suicide doors on both sides now. Thing is you can't open the rear without opening the fronts first, so I think they're safe.
Oh, that center dash on the Ion! It's AWFUL! Didn't they learn a lesson from the Toyota Echo? Customers rejected that like pepper spray! What were they thinking? To repeat a huge mistake like that is unimaginable!
PT turbo gets 215hp, not bad. The Neon turbo got 205hp, so I'm a bit surprised. They need something to keep customers coming - $1000 rebates are already in place.
Fiesta looks much improved. The last one was UGLY, with a guppy-like face. It got crushed in the market in Brazil, buyers flocked to Fiat. I doubt they'll sell it here, but it ought to help Ford recover in Brazil.
I don't like about the Element, is that when the right rear seat is folded up, it creates a HUGE blind spot while looking over your right shoulder. That's not good, at all.
Finally, a non-boring Honda! Perfect new age station wagon replacment. The quirky Civic wagon. At least the excessive cladding is artful.
I'm over 40, but would look seriously at one if we needed a FWD runabout/hauler and the gas mileage, curb weight & purchase price were right. You can sell an young person's car to an old(er) person, but not the other vice versa.
As you get older, life starts to reverse itself. So while I'm 57—and like the Element; that can only mean that I'm in line for diapers shortly, which (in a way) puts me well under 12 years of age...
Ed, we knew you'd come through with that! There's nothing new under the sun if you grew up with 1950s and 1960s American cars. You've seen it all before.
(This posting is brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department.)
Or just have one of your little surfer passengers stand with his head out that moonroof so he can warn the driver, "Duuuuude, somethin' coming up in the passing lane!" See, I was young once, too!
Comments
Which is interesting. This back-fired for Isuzu. The Axiom wasn't deemed car-like enough for buyers.
They insist it will be a crossover, not another SUV, and will compete with the Mercedes Vision. And Chrysler Pacifica, though they didn't mention it.
-juice
I liked the rear center fillers that my old GMs had either pump worked on them. But a filler on both sides would be nice.
-mike
My Forester has it on the passenger's side. Did they flip-flop it from '98 to '00?
Bob: Yes I recognize the safety problems of the rear center gas filler. Neither the 'Stang nor the Stude have head rests on their seats - can you say 'whiplash'? I knew you could. ;-) A filler behind the rear window and ahead of the trunk opening on a sedan might be okay though.
Ed
agree with juice on the double annoyance.
Also, you'll have people filling their tanks with both fillers opened (Poodle in microwave theory).... and probably over fill their tank and not know until gas spurts out the other end.
-Dave
Bob: Ford didn't raise Expedition prices at all, isn't that funny? Shows how soft the big SUV market is, and how strong the luxury SUV market is (with huge increases for the Nav).
I was browsing Fitzmall.com, and found some interesting downward trends in pricing.
H6 Outback sedans have reached as low as $25,249. I had predicted $25k would come soon. There is a regional incentive of $500, and I predict $750 will come back, since that was offered last year. $25k is more like it. $33k really was ridiculous.
At $25k, I think I can get the wife to try one. Still, if the rebate hits $750, and they offer a manual for $770 less, that would be $24,229. That would be pretty easy to talk her into. C'mon Subaru.
Highlanders have dropped in price, too. They now have 4x4 V6 models under $28k, they used to be well into the 30s. Even with a moonroof it's under $29k, but that's without leather, which she wants. So it's still a stretch.
Avalanche for $23k? Oh, 4x2. Still, not bad. They have Grand Cherokees for $23,937, and that used to be a $28 grand vehicle. Most Troopers run $25 grand, but I predict that will dip further by fall.
So, profit margins on trucks is way down. I recall Jeep said it made $8,000 profit on each Grand Cherokee, but with these prices it's about half that much probably.
-juice
-mike
I haven't visited the Fits site in some time. That is good news, however—especially about the Highlander.
Bob
Sounds like a direct competitor to the new Volvo XC90.
Bob
Even the Focus offers stability control. It's a mainstream technology now. Subaru has to work on something else to make the VDC stand out.
-juice
-mike
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036361
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036365
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036353
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036357
Bob
Select latest Auto Show images, then New York.
Bob
http://www.wieck.com/public/index.html
Bob
Ed
-mike
Bob
Paul
generally, most vehicles have but one outlet in the bumper for the exhaust. it's no coincidence that the gas cap is always on the opposite side of the exhaust.
some cars do have dual exhausts with one on each side of the bumper though and I haven't seen many fires from those.
-Colin
-mike
Ed
Bob
<< generally, most vehicles have but one outlet in the bumper for the exhaust. it's no coincidence that the gas cap is always on the opposite side of the exhaust. >>
-mike
Bob
http://www.hondanews.com/Forms/events/*ws4d-db-query-Show.ws4d?*ws4d-db-query-Show***002283***-wieck_media***-***events(directory)***.ws4d?events/results(r)_text.html
http://www.hondanews.com/Forms/events/*ws4d-db-query-Show.ws4d?*ws4d-db-query-Show***002281***-wieck_media***-***events(directory)***.ws4d?events/results(r)_text.html
This thing will be hot among younger buyers. Whereas the CRV may appear to be a "stuffy, old folks car" to them, this won't. I predict it will be a HUGE hit for Honda.
Bob
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036299
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036293
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036291
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036283
-mike
Suicide doors are common on pickups. I'm telling ya, it's going to be a huge hit!
Bob
-mike
Ross
I bet more surfers (and younger buyers) opt for the Element, and more older "Harry & Harriet homeowners" opt for the Baja.
Bob
Bob
Bob
Bob
The functionality is truly refreshing. For once, a crossover actually does something your basic station wagon does not - easy and flexible cargo hauling.
I give Honda a big thumbs up. Isn't it refreshing to actually see some DESIGN coming out of Honda? They have a patent on "boring". The Element will be a hit with the young crowd.
The Pilot is the polar opposite - very safe and generic looking. That's OK, I think it's understated and will appeal to people who need a minivan but want an SUV. Like my wife. That's the idea. I like it.
Look how wide the middle seat is - truly comfy 3 across seating. The 3rd row even split folds, which the Odyssey doesn't do. The room behind the 3rd row matches the immense Navigator, even. Honda is excellent at space utilization. Thumbs up.
$26-32 grand? On the Ody, the EX costs $2500 more, leather yet another $1500. So that's $30 grand even for an EX/leather, like the wife wants. It's a bit of a stretch, but it does come closest to meeting all of our criteria. We'll definitely check one out.
-juice
Ion sedan looks weird. I see a Neon rear end grafted onto a CTS profile. Curves and creased boxy edges too mixed up. The two-tone makes it look a bit obscure, at least the sedan.
The coupe I like much better. The overall look is more finished, consitent. Suicide doors on both sides now. Thing is you can't open the rear without opening the fronts first, so I think they're safe.
Oh, that center dash on the Ion! It's AWFUL! Didn't they learn a lesson from the Toyota Echo? Customers rejected that like pepper spray! What were they thinking? To repeat a huge mistake like that is unimaginable!
PT turbo gets 215hp, not bad. The Neon turbo got 205hp, so I'm a bit surprised. They need something to keep customers coming - $1000 rebates are already in place.
Fiesta looks much improved. The last one was UGLY, with a guppy-like face. It got crushed in the market in Brazil, buyers flocked to Fiat. I doubt they'll sell it here, but it ought to help Ford recover in Brazil.
-juice
Bob
I'm over 40, but would look seriously at one if we needed a FWD runabout/hauler and the gas mileage, curb weight & purchase price were right. You can sell an young person's car to an old(er) person, but not the other vice versa.
One more attraction to check out in NYC.
John
Ross
http://www.stude.com/wagon/ex29.jpg
Come on gang, you think I'd let that slip by without a reference? ;-)
Ed
Bob
(This posting is brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department.)
Bob
;~)
Ross the O.F.
-mike