Infiniti G35 Coupe
heatmiser1
Member Posts: 122
in INFINITI
This one looks HOT! Rear wheel drive, 275+HP, 260+ ft-lbs torque, 6 speed manual, 350Z styling, 2+2 form factor, fold down rear seats, etc. Coming out Fall 2002!
http://www.freshalloy.com/site/cars/infiniti/2003/g35/coupe/home.shtml
http://www.freshalloy.com/site/cars/infiniti/2003/g35/coupe/home.shtml
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G35:
350Z:
Not that I don't like; I DO! But what's the point of competing with yourself?
The G coupe looks goooood...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Not really a slam, here, it's just that whenever I hear "2+2", the overlong, and overweight 280z and it's successors spring immediatley to mind. Even a venerable XKE 2+2 is somehow less appealing to me than the coupe.
I guess since a two-door competitor is lacking at Infiniti stands it's something that makes sense, but I wonder if enough will take the bait, instead of just grabbing a Z for (I should think) less...
Also, the G35 Coupe is NOT a dedicated sports car like the Z. they're going for two very different markets. If one wants a sports car, the Z is the choice. If one wants the entry-level performance luxury coupe, then he gets the G or Bimmer.
The 3 is an interesting comparison for me, because I don't think of it as a lux/perf.-coupe, but rather as a two-door lux/perf.-sedan. It started its life as a benchmark sedan and had two doors surgically removed, rather than being stretched from a real coupe. Also, it does not have a real two seater sibling, since the roadster/coupe is a very different car, I believe. Same can be said for the CL-s, though from a different benchmark. I think they're successful, in part, for that reason.
I think stretching a coupe originally penned AS a coupe usually yields less than perfect results, and I'm driving just such a coupe. It's nice and it does most all of the things I need it to, but the real coupe is a more capable car with better proportions that unfortunately can't carry my kids comfortably! My coupe's sales are tanking, BTW, while the real coupe's are on a roll.
I'm not knocking the G, but I question whether it will sell in quantities sufficient to sustain it, given that the Z is available.
The skyline's been around Japan for over a year, so the G35's underpinnings seem to be original design of that FM platform. The Z is the shortened version.
And once again, Nissan is selling the two cars to very different groups. Those who buy a 2 seater sports car aren't the same as those cats who fork over for a performance luxury coupe. Nissan isn't targeting the BMW with the 350z, but the Bavarians are definitely the only ones in the crosshairs of the G35c.
I can't see the Z or G stealing sales from one another because they're on different missions. you want all-out action and no usability or luxury, then it's the Z. You want luxury, utility, performance and some choice beyond a 330ci, it's the G.
The Z never caught my fancy but the G35 seems to work much better.
I know there's a market for it. How big I guess I leave up to you guys!
Like I said before, I'm not knocking it, but I'd rather be in the Z myself...
But my coupe fascination is over, and my next car appears to be an IS300 Sportcross.
Still, if I could do a third car...
The G and Z both look good, but I'm waiting to see how these designs influence the final R35 GT-R that comes over.
The G35 Coupe is 182 inches long, has a 112 inch wheelbase and it's 71.5 inches wide. That's only 10 inches shorter than the exceptionally long CL coupe's 192 inches and it's actually wider than the CL and the G's wheelbase offers 6 more inches of space. The G's also more powerful (275+HP/260 lb-ft torque compared to the CL Type-S 260/232).
Sure in weight and total length the G's smaller than a CL, but it's not really a car between the CL and RSX when you look at interior volume and specs.
The GT-R will probably be pretty close to the G coupe. I'd guess they may do some M-style mods to it, wheel arch flairs, more agressive airdams and skirting but otherwise the basic look of the G coupe is pretty clear in the GT-R show car shown last year.
ARGH! Gs and CLs and ... let's give cars real names. Even my computer has a name, 'Dell Dimension.' If I call it a Dell 8100, is it a 'luxury PC'?
The R35 Skyline GT-R could be sold as an Infiniti and take on the NSX. If I was to sell the R34 or R33 in the US, it would be with a Nissan badge.
Differences in styling are evident, at least from the R35 GT-R concept.
We'll see, but I'd be willing to predict that when it comes to performance measures, even the vaunted 330ci won't be able to hang with a G coupe.
This is obvious.
However, the G35 replaces the G20 and
the RSX replaces the Integra. The IS300
has received some good enhancements, I have heard. Thus, all three compete in the entrylux category well today as well as yesterday.
The problem is the upper echilon. Lexus LS sells, I guess (I do not see them often), but the RL and Q45 are not selling well. I see more RLs than LS or Q45 models, but still, the Japanese big cars are not coaxing any DeVille owners away at record numbers - that I know of. The M45 may/may not change that.
The R35 GT-R in the lineup of Infiniti would smash Acura in the head... but 2004/5 will also see a new NSX.
Short of spectacular marketing and sales of the G35 and selling the GT-R as an Infiniti, I don't see Infiniti as moving away from its 'kinda here buy kinda not noticed' status. As I said, if I want an Infiniti in Michigan, there are only 3 dealers. Lexus and Acura both have 5 and they are in good, prominent locations.
Um, no. The RSX competes against the likes of the Celica, GTI, Jetta 1.8T/VR6, Civic Si, Tiburon, Focus SVT, eclipse, WRX (kinda, same price), Protege MP3 and upcoming MazdaSpeed3, and Matrix/Vibe. Edmunds' competing vehicles breakdown is here: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/acura/rsx/types2drhatchback20l4cyl6m/compare.html
At a price of 19k-25k, the RSX with its 4 cylinder engine and FWD is not in the least poised to compete against the 27-36k G35 or 27-35k IS300. The G35 and IS300 are designed to battle the C series, 3 series, A4, CL/TL.
I'm not sure why you'd even think the lowly civic-based hatchback RSX is designed to be a competitor to RWD entry-level performance luxury sedans/coupes.
>>I see more RLs than LS or Q45 models<<
I'm not sure where you live but in Socal the RL does not exist. For every 10 LS400/430s I see, there's maybe one RL. If that.
The NSX is priced in the 90k range. Maybe Acura will lower the price for the next gen - might be wise given the dismal sales. As it stands now, the GT-R will probably come out to do battle with other entry-level lux super sedans like the M3 and AMG's C32 sedan. People aren't going to fork over 70k for a turbo-charged or V8 powered Skyline/G35 that's got a tighter suspension and some mods. I'd bet on a price of around 45-50k starting. Probably 40-45k as Infiniti will want to undercut BMW still.
As for dealerships, I live in San Diego. We've got a fair number of people here and a nice chunk change goes to bling bling cars. There are only 4 Acura, 4 Bimmer dealerships, 3 Lexus and 3 Infiniti dealers in a 50 mile vicinity from my zip in the heart of San Diego's downtown. With only 4 bimmer and 3 lexus dealers how could their sales be so great? Maybe luxury marquees PAY for the right to be the only dealer within a set space? Ya think? I know I'd do that if I wanted to represent a select clientele.
The Integra and RSX are as much fun as you can have with FWD (the Prelude being even more exciting).
Don't be lazy, you can click on people's profiles or read other things they write. In the Detroit area, the RL is seen much more the Lexus LS. Same is true here in Ann Arbor.
You want to play RSX and G35 vs. BMW 3 games, but
how is a GT-R going to compete with sport sedans? It is a supercar competitor, not a sport sedan.
You want to play with 2 doors and 4 doors and FWD and RWD... so there you have it. The GT-R is a different machine than a C32 AMG prospective buyer would consider.
>>In the Detroit area, the RL is seen much more the Lexus LS. Same is true here in Ann Arbor.<<
I'd love to see sales numbers because that's a huge shock given how dismal RL sales are in general.
The GT-R will be based on the G35c, and possibly even sport a turbo/supercharged version of the VQ. That size car seems to be directly aimed at an M3. If Infiniti were to release the GT-R for anything over the M3's price, they'd be begging for it to flop like the NSX.
The C32 AMG is designed to be the MB alternative to the M3. You may not be a sedan fan but MB has the M3 in its crosshairs with that AMG model. It's not like MB can goose up a C coupe and make it a wrothwhile competitor to the M3...
and because 4-cyl and 6-cyl are their specialities, maybe they should just let Infiniti try to mess with Lexus in that category. The LS sells more the Q45, obviously, but still not near Benz or Mercedes.
The Japanese need to do sport more than lux. The IS300, RSX, and G35 all fall in the lux/sport range. Some have more sport, others, more lux. Near the $35K mark, though, you are talking BMW territory pretty well. I like German and Japanese machines, so if the Japanese come up with more interesting options, such as the G35, there may be real hairy competition for the Germans.
Infiniti buyer wants to say 'I am different.' He's not really that far off, then, from the Alfa Romeo or SAAB guy... unless you note that Infiniti is not under a GM takeover threat!
The G20, as I said, is well known for its excellent reliability and good price. It is NOT a 'fancy Sentra.' Moving "uptown, baby" with the G35 may give Infiniti 'BMW dreams,' but we'll see if there's still room for, say, bringing over the Primera to the U.S. market. The think Nissan should.
Engines, drivetrains, interior/exterior dimensions, etc.
I just don't see a G35 or IS300 shopper cross-shopping the RSX. As a potential IS300 customer, the RSX isn't really even a blip on the screen...
I'm comparing among Japanese sports coupes. If you want to think of your G35 as a BMW rival, then it's perfectly fine for me to think of my Integra as a BMW rival... FWD/RWD/AWD/etc. is crowding the picture.
If you want to play horsepower games, go join the
Mustang and Camaro crowd.
The Prelude nailed the sport coupe market. Only problem was that it was not expensive enough to draw on the BMW-wannabes that are looking at the G35 now.
I think there's more involved than price here. It didn't have the power to weight necessary to make it really fun, the ponies and twist were pretty high on the tach IIRC, and the power went to the wrong end of the car. Aside from some nimble handling and as a technology platform (its real mission), it wasn't a standout. The last years saw it gain a whole lot of weight and get pretty remarkably ugly too, IMO.
I doubt there's any FWD car that's ever going to hook a serious Bimmer pilot. Why would they bother? Maybe an AWD Audi, though...
Then you're not talking about a WRX, 350Z, Evo, RX-8, RSX, or Celica. Those are all classified as different styles - removed from entry-level luxury-sports. Must are econoboxes, one a legit sports car and a few are hatchbacks, with one random sedan thrown into the mix.
The people who cross-shop an Evo/WRX to a G/325/IS300/A4 are not looking for luxury - they want performance - just like the guys who think a Firebird/Camaro/mustang is the bomb...they're not the target market of the econobox scooters (RSX, GTI, Celica) or the entry-level luxs. You're missing a key part of the equation...LUXURY/performance sedan/coupe. Luxury. The cars mentioned above (RSX, Celica, Mazda, Nissan) are not luxury cars. They'll never be confused with entry level lux. Nobody sits in a Scooby and says, "Dang, this here's a real fancy-smancy au-to-moile." Furthermore, the marketers/manufacturers aren't positioning them as such.
It's not about playing horsepower games. A WRX makes more power than a 325, but that's okay because they're in different classes. One is a luxury performance sedan and the other an econobox rally car.
And the Prelude failed to woo possible bimmer buyers for several reasons: zero luxury (the car didn't even have leather!), an inline 4, a Honda emblem, FWD. It was NEVER marketed to take on a Bimmer...its comp was the Cougar, Integra, Eclipse, Avenger. Apples to oranges, my friend.
BMW "wannabes" see BMW level performance and refinement in a luxury sedan when they look at the G35 and to a lesser extent the IS300.
... he made the Prelude vs. 3-Series case quite nicely on another board. Don't remember which one.
The G35 has one major flaw I can think of. The rump.
Why not try to convince people that a Collie is the same kinda dog as a Great Dane?
The G35 Coupe is a luxury coupe, pure and simple. It has a big engine but so does a Lincoln MKVIII. I expect the G35 to be a lot like a Prelude actually, verozahl - heavy, steady and vault-like. That's what a luxury coupe should be. If the G35 turns out to be a stiff precise rocket, in other words a 350Z with the Infiniti logo and a $4k price hike, then it'll enjoy the typical Infiniti fate as a nice vehicle overshadowed by its Nissan counterpart. I hope they don't go that route.
As for the various comments about people not cross-shopping FWD vs RWD, 4 vs 6, etc., when looking for a performance car, that's a load of baloney of course. People who are looking for an exceptionally well handling, quick, sturdy and durable, surgically precise and responsive car are going to be attracted to everything from a FWD peaky inline-4 Integra Type R to a RWD torquey V8 BMW 540i. There is this term called "driver's car" that spans drivetrain and powerplant boundaries, and those of us who seek out true driver's cars will find ourselves attracted to a very broad range of configurations. I find myself attracted to how silky an engine is, how supportive the seats are, how little deadzone there is in the wheel, how linear the pedals are. To me, those are the elements of a performance-oriented driver's car. FWD vs RWD? I4 vs V6? Sure, I have my preferences, but frankly FWD vs RWD falls close to the bottom of the list of considerations. Having a WD40 shifter and formula one steering are much, much more important to me.
As for bluedotcomguy.com's remarks on Prelude, Prelude failed because it was never marketed to take on *any* car. It had most of the feel and performance of BMWs without any of the marketing or feature content. It had most of the handling of an ITR or Celica without any of the track reputation. In reality, BMWs remind me a lot of the Prelude (heft, precision, smooth acceleration, utterly predictable) which is why I think someone cross-shopping a 325Ci versus a Prelude SH would have had a tough time choosing after drives in both. I sure did. But, sadly, most people after Preludes consider BMWs to be portly grocery sedans, and most people after BMWs consider Preludes to be econo lowered 4-bangers. The vehicles were pretty similar and BMW's own use of Prelude in its competitive comparisons was enough evidence of that. But for the unwashed masses, marketing determines cross-shopping viability, not the cars themselves.
And bringing all this back to the G35 coupe, judging by the 350Z's "we're bigger than Windows 95" PR launch I have a feeling that the G35 will end up being relegated to obscurity as an unloved cousin to the famous Z. That's too bad, it looks like an awesome luxury coupe.
BTW, I drove the Prelude a few times when car shopping. It was quick and handled nicely but the interior was not up to the level of refinement I expect from a car. Like the WRX, the Prelude lost me every time I sat in it. It felt too pedestrian and not Germanic enough. Same can be said to a point about the G35 Sedan...it's interior is its biggest drawback. Oh well, hopefully the coupe will feel a touch more upscale or at least have that BMW/MB/Audi-like feel of austere, purposeful, yet quality (this doesn't include the MB ML or C series - yuck!).
The 5th-gen Prelude interior is the definition of refinement. Everything you need and nothing you don't in order to drive. Ergonomic and straightforward controls.
My dream coupe is not far from this: a Nissan with G35 interior and 350Z exterior.
Love Audi interiors though and I dig the A4 sedan. Too bad also that the A4 cab is either FWD or that hideous quattro-power-sapping-junk. Sorry. Driven too many Audis with AWD and I've not liked that experience once. The car feels dead and heavy. Haven't tried an S4 though...that might change my tune.
The Z and G35 coupe differ GREATLY in the fact that the G will be able to carry 4 people (if only for a limited time, natch) and has a trunk. That in and of itself differentiates it enough to be a different car appealing to different people.
IMO the photos of the G35 Coupe look terrific, sophisticated, refined, sporty, flowing, and more expensive that the espected MSRP of $29,500. Although the yen is strengthing quickly against the dollar and could impact prices for any cars built in Japan.
Based on the photos the G35 Coupe has presence that is comprable to the Lexus SC430 which starts at $62,000. It is much more attractive to my eye than the nondescript Acura CL which is a fine car but styled by accountants on valuim. It does not have the three pointed star of the Mercedes but the styling again based on the photos would hold its own against the new 500SL which starts at $87,000. Yes styling sells and I am very much interested in buying this car.
The standard equipment in this car represents an incredible value for the money and Infiniti scores well in quality according to JD Powers. Infiniti always scores ahead of the German brands based on the JD quality surveys.
Where the G35 sedan really lets us down as mentioned by a previous poster is the interior which is worthy of a Nissan. You have to do better here Infiniti.
For those who are interested in buying the new 350Z be aware that the latest quality surveys for Nissan are declining in quality scores. Why would anyone want the Nissan experience and a much shorter warranty than the Infiniti? Ok maybe you need to go around a skidpad 1 second faster, LOL.
Thankyou for reading my rant and what a great time to be an auto enthusiast.
Now it is true that in part the #1 slot had to go to the car because of its price, otherwise the BMW 330 would have won on overall performance, say the editors, but still fair is fair and price is certainly part of a car's appeal and popularity.
It's hard to beat the BMW on engine and on the precision of handling, but gee, from the test, the G35 wasn't much off the mark as far as the average driver is concerned. We are getting so close in the testing with some of these cars that the arguments are starting to sound like people talking about the difference in high end stereos-- you know the type "Did you hear THAT....right THERE" "No, I didn't hear it, I don't think. Play it again".
The car seems like a steal for the price.
Compared to the Lexus and Acura upscale efforts of Toyota and Honda, the Nissan Corp hasn't done very well seems to me. Lexus beat 'em up from the get-go in 1990 and that's the way it's been ever since.
German brands are another thing entirely. BMW invented sport sedan and shows no signs of being dethroned. Sales are screaming and the press is drooling. The juggernaut rolls on.
Mercedes isn't even a car anymore, it is a total legend like Babe Ruth and is just about critic-proof no matter what they do. Rolls Royce and Harley Davidson are but two examples of Sacred Names that coasted for ages on reputation alone, with a mediocre product dragging behind them. The Mercedes name is Golden, like it or not, deserved or not, fair or not. Myth overtakes Reality perhaps. And more than that, the car is still awesome.
Infiniti is a ripple in the pond right now but you know, if they KEEP producing spectacular cars like the G35, for years and years to come, they will be noticed and it will have an effect on competition. The press on the G35 has been just great.
But not just one model one time, is going to scare anybody. Reputations are built over decades I think. Look how long Audi's comback took, a solid 15 years of effort. Now their cars are respected and beautiful and they won Lemans, too. It takes a lot!
Some of the best models ever produced by dead car companies came at the very end of their corporate lives, so a model's excellence may not mean anything good per se.
Look how aggressive Lexus is, in media and in product development. This is what Nissan needs to do and they aren't even close yet.