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Now......that's an interesting thought.
I would bet my best leaf blower that there is no clearcoat on my car. The paint doesn't look like it has a clearcoat, doesn't feel like it has a clearcoat and looking at the chips (remember I am soliciting Infiniti for remedial work on my 25+ paint chips), there is no apparent clearcoat visible when you look closely at the chips. They are very shallow. That would explain the reason why every dust particle that touchs the paint leaves a chip with the primer showing.
Thoughts anyone?
Roll
I don't see evidence of my clear coat on my chips either (Toyota paint on an IS300), but it's there. Perhaps in an effort to smooth the final gloss coat they're spraying thinner mixes or something?
Roll
Here is the update I promised two days ago.
My wife's dealer appointment was re-scheduled to today. She started with the service manager who quickly agreed there is a problem. He tried to get pictures in the service bay under fluorescent lighting, to no avail. My wife had him take the car outside for natural lighting and all the problems jumped out!!! They asked her to wait in the service lounge while others gathered and examined the car. It turns out, coincidently (wink, wink), the regional parts and service guy was on hand.
After much examination and writing of info from the door pillar stickers, they called my wife out. It is either a problem with the clear coat breaking down or the base coat not adhering to the primer AND it is is a problem with the total car! There are paint chips and primer spots visible where road debris damage is not expected.
We think they suspect a broader problem with a production run at the plant (words to that effect from the Infiniti guys). Next step: they are bringing in some tech specialist next week, will ask my wife to return the car for another exam.
For full effect, I copied all comments on this thread into a Word doc and printed it. My wife presented it to the Infiniti guys, telling them this is what we found on Edmonds.com. There was some serious concern in their eyes and comments like "Oh No"!!!
I would welcome email from any of you if you want to get together more personally on this issue and build a more specific case for Infiniti, not just a bunch of internet ramblings. I think a set of VIN numbers might be able show a linkage at the plant if one exists.
Like Rollbar, I suspect our car has little or no clearcoat.
More information later as it becomes available.
The dealer had the car today and just like Yellowcar, the regional rep was in. Yellowcar, where are you? This coincidence is interesting to say the least. Not in Ohio are you by any chance?
Anyway, here is the story. Infiniti has had paint problems with this model. Not specific to the red color I was told. The rep agreed the number of chips was unusually high for the age and mileage on the car. They have given me two choices: Do nothing and when the lease is up, I have a record in the system that should provide a defense if an issue comes up regarding the number of chips; or, they will paint the car but only the areas with chips. For me that’s the hood, both front fenders, the door pillar on the pass side and the drivers door and rear quarter panel. The only parts left are the trunk lid, pass door and quarter and the rear end. (And the roof I guess.)
The repaint will be with basically the same paint that's on it now but they think in the end I will have less chips if I get it repainted. These areas will be sanded, he said before the repaint. I'm leaning toward the repaint option although I do have a concern that the repaint will be obvious from a distance where the chips, as bad as they are, don't show up from 10 feet out. The Dealer assures me the repaint will be a quality job.
I'm interested in suggestions. One thought was to contact Infiniti Customer Service and explore what they might do about a move into a 2006; same equip, color etc. I am sure I would be paying something but my expectation would be a reasonable difference based on the problem and how the car will wear over time.
Oh, they also said the rep mentioned Infiniti had made a change in the paint formula on discovering the problem. If I heard him correctly, they are using less lead in the paint now. I also got the impression this problem was limited to the Coupe.
I specifically asked about clearcoat. What Bate said made perfect sense but I still can't get over the fact that the chips are so darn shallow. Literally paper thin. The dealer agreed and had also thought that possibly the problem was with the clearcoat. They took the car to their paint vendor who claims the car is clearcoated. I also mentioned just doing touch up but the Dealer states it would be easy to spot and I would not be happy with it.
I do think Infiniti and the Dealer are trying to do the right thing and so far, I have no complaints about the way they are handling the problem or treating me.
Roll
We are in Dallas and I am confident this is not just a coincidence but a common problem across a series of cars from the plant.
As to a re-paint, if you have selected areas of the car done, then that is just what you will end up with: a partial re-paint. The areas not painted will still retain the problem and eventually you will have chips and other defects in those areas that were not "corrected".
Since you are in a lease (with Infiniti I presume), my recommendation is to get out of the car ASAP with no $ hit due to wear and tear. If you really think a local paint job can approach what should be a quality factory job let me give you something to consider: an aftermarket job is going to include taping off a lot of trim, gaskets, windows, undercarriage, ...etc. You get the idea. This will NOT be undetectable when finished.
A true re-paint to factory spec should be the same as for a color-change: complete removal of trim, glass, gaskets, EVERYTHING possible. No taping of panels, no overspray in wheel wells, undercarriage, etc. Just a continuous and even coating of all areas with no breaks. Get the idea?
A re-paint will not be a good solution for us. We are in a purchase situation. Right now, my wife has totally lost faith in Infiniti.
Best regards and good luck,
Jim
How about a quick non-scientific poll?
What is the maufacturing date on your car (on the sticker inside driver's side door pillar)?
Ours is 08/05. Any commonality to our problems in this area?
I looked at the car yet again today while I was outside getting the build date.
There are no spots on the right side, rear, deck, top. Not even on the lip of the wheel wells on the 1/4 panels.
There are spots on the hood, front fenders, driv door and dirv 1/4 panel.
And there are spots on the wheel lip of the front wheels.
That doesn't make sense to me. I would expect chips in the wheel well fender lips, even more so in the back than the front.
Makes me wonder if there is something different with the front fenders, hood and left side. I looked hard for any signs of a respray in those areas and could find nothing at all even remotely suggesting the car was partially painted at some time.
What is your goal Yellowcar? Contact me email.
Roll
I'm currently looking to purchase a G35 in the coming weeks ...
I'll be greatly influenced by the quality of support you get from Infiniti regarding this issue.
Thanks for keeping the list updated - it's appreciated.
Understand and will keep posting on this paint problem until it's resolved.
Jack,
So far, Infiniti has given me the attention I wanted. They gave me no argument about the paint and have offered to repaint all affected areas. All this without a gripe, a hesitation, or even a troubled look on their faces. I did not have to campaign for a fix, they came right out with one first shot, no whining or threatening from me necessary. I have had nothing but excellent service from the Dealer through out the entire ownership of two Infiniti cars; I can now add the Infiniti rep to that list of customer oriented folks.
Yellow-car may have a different view but I am happy with the service. I’m not terribly happy with the quality of the paint on my Infiniti product however. I don’t want it painted and I don’t want it marked up. I don’t think Infiniti is going to give me an attractive financial option to move into a 2006 and so I’m stuck with one of several solutions none of which are very pleasing.
Roll
Red
Red
I washed the car this afternoon myself, (dealer had always washed it). In daylight, while clean and dry, I examined the finish for chips. Every panel but one, including the front and rear bumpers, have chips. Even the roof has one, (but only one). The read deck lid is the only panel without a chip.
The right side quarter has a half dozen; they are small and must have been hidden by road dirt. They’re showing up along the leading edge of the rear wheel fender flares; about 6-8 inches from the front of the rear fender wheel opening.
I am beginning to think the only solution is a repaint. If I let it go and don’t have it painted, by the time the car is a year old, it will be covered in gray spots.
Yellow, how goes your case?
Roll
I have not asked the Dealer for a repaint at this point but if I do, I would prefer a complete repaint not just chip spots.
At the rate the paint chips are coming, I am considering letting the chips continue and demand a complete repaint from dealer, or selling the car now.
Tenman.
He made no mention of defect of course - just thought I'd pass this on, as it reflects some consciousness at dealerships that there is a problem.
I did not mean to suggest we are getting poor service or attention from our dealer. Just the opposite: everyone at the dealership seems genuinely concerned, as does the regional rep. My wife's disappointment is not with the dealer, but with Inifiniti for the condition of the car at 1,300 miles.
Our goal is straightforward: to own a car that is delivered from the factory in the condition intended by the designers, engineers and technicians. A car that might require a major or even total repaint after delivery does not meet that expectation by any stretch of the imagination. The means to attain our goal are yet to be identified.
Thanks to all for your comments and input.
Jim
Roll
http://www.iihs.org/
http://www.crashtest.com
This just in from AP: "Nissan officials demonstrated a paint job offered in Japan that fixes itself of slight scratches caused by car-washing, off-road driving or fingernails. To speed up the repair of the elastic resin, which works like a rubbery surface, hot water was poured on a surface after it was scraped with a bristled metal brush."
I am leaning towards purchasing a G35 Coupe since it will be a second car and would not need to carry passengers in the back seat. However, in the back of my mind, I still think I should buy the sedan.
I would appreciate feedback on the handling/performance differences between the coupe and the sedan. Also any other comments I should consider in making my decision.
Thanks.
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/head_restraints/head_infiniti.html
I'm trying to think of the last time I used the test results to truly color a purchase decision... Oh, that's right, never!
They keep changing the criteria for the tests. A model penned at the time of an old test might have been designed for good to excellent ratings and been released or lived out its model life after a new test criterion installed, thus ending up as an average or poor.
I won't ever say I think the data should be ignored by those who find it important, only that it needs to be taken with a grain or pound of salt.
What I never agree with is the idea that a poor showing makes an entrant "unsafe". Perhaps less safe than other entries, but our standards are, to my mind, fairly high to begin with.
Paint: self healing paint would be a good thing. Sounds like elasticity is exactly what's missing in the first place, doesn't it?
Just wait until someone in the auto industry markets electrochromic coverings for real. Change the color of the car at the flip of a switch.
Is it Ford or GM that's looking to implement no-paint skins? Color already in the panels, somewhat a la Corian. Get a nick, haul out the polish!
I wish I had self-healing paint. Got into a fender bender today (driver's rear quarter bent up a little). Sucks. She'll probably never be the same again :-(
I have not found a site where tests were conducted on a coupe model. Hard to say if there might be a difference but since the cars are different...
Of course that's not a comfort to the sedan owners out there.
Roll
Roll: I hope that's in a good way...
I have purchased and 06 G35 Coupe with Bluetooth. I am on my second phone(Sprint 6700 and Treo 650) and the voice quality is terrible. The functionality is working fine, but again, audio is bad. The people that I am talking to constantly complain about cut-outs and static. Has anyone else experienced this?
Bkiero :sick:
Looking at purchasing a 2006 G35 Coupe. Therefore, I would be interested in comments regarding blind spots. Also your thoughts about installing parking assist to help with blind spot issues.
Thanks.
Two different issues maybe; blind spots/parking assist.
Blind spots, you bet. I turn my side mirrors out so that I can see what's beside and just out of the range of my peripheral vision. The right mirror is turned out until I hit the stops; I wish it would turn out a little more.
As for parking, not a problem once you learn the corners. The rear spoiler helps since it’s visible out the back window. With experience you get a feel for the proximity of objects nearby in relation to the tail (spoiler for me).
I spend a lot more time finding a parking spot with some defensive attributes than I do wondering if I am going to bump something while I back up.
Just my opinion,
Roll
PS I have to admit however, I do miss the rear camera I had the FX 35. I could back in to a spot and get within an inch of a wall.
Infiniti is considering the situation. Since I refreshed their data with the news that every panel but the rear deck lid has multiple spots, (except the roof which only had one....I should recheck that, it's been 2 weeks) they have been considering the case.
I am struggling with this I have to admit. It's a lease but I put additional cap reduction into the deal and the largest deposit possible, all for the purpose of buying the car at lease end. That part is done and I'm not really looking for comments on the wisdom of my strategy, however it does present me with a problem.
Painting the car is going to diminish it's value, which I consider money out of my pocket since I laid the groundwork for a lease end purchase. If I don't get it painted I end up with a nice car that looks like I went hunting with Dick Cheney.
I'm thinking about the residual value buyout. The difference in value of a car with a factory paint job vs a complete repaint. Don't know just what that difference might be but suspect it's worth a look. Thoughts?
Thanks all,
Roll
Appreciate your words of experience.
Mahalo (Thanks)
One post, two replies, one says nothing by super, the other (yours) says its OK to at least alternate with mid grade.
Any other opinions?
Performance engines require the real juice to perform consistently and reliably. I see very little real-world benefit available from penny pinching. What's the point? Do the math and see what you're actually "saving" over the course of a year. I'm pumping 92 at 2.69 a gallon, 13 gallons a week on average. If I alternated with midgrade (currently 2.59/gl locally) every other week, I'd save a whopping $2.84 a month! I put 10-11K miles on per month, so even if you double that, we're still talking only $5.67 for the month. That goes straight to my "who gives a hoot" column personally.
Everyone's POV is different, but mine says if buying a performance car was important enough in the first place, it certainly isn't worth $3 to have anything less than peak power available whenever the hell I want it.
[End of rant]
I think the idea of a repaint sapping value may be a bit overblown here. While I think it would be absolutely critical to the valuation of a '57 XKSS (my personal pick for most beautiful sports car ever),
I doubt it could mean more than few dollars on the value of a potent, desirable, yet banal Japanese import such as yours or mine. Unless of course they do a cruddy spray over a bungled masking!
As Blue Oyster Cult said: "Don't fear the repaint (needs more cowbell
I have no control over the shop that will do the work. The shop mentioned to me I've never heard of and I know a couple of the better shops in town. As for the second, I'm the buyer and I do know, and I would feel compelled to disclose, the repaint when it was sold.
I do have concerns and unfortunately I have that defect in my DNA wherein every flaw seems to catch my eye. It's a curse.
Just for laughs I did go back out and check the top today. Two weeks ago it had one very small chip an inch or two from the edge of the windshield. Now I have three marks on the top. Two on the front and a large one closer to the middle of the top on the pass side. Imagine what it's going to look like in another 6 months.
I would be a happy guy if they carefully stripped my lowly G35 for a re-spray, like they no doubt did for the beautiful '57 XKSS above, but I think it's more likely they will mask off my wheels, glass, and trim, and spool up the paint gun. Egad!
I knew I should have taken the blue one....durn it all anyway. lol
Thanks Bate for the response, I remain optimistic.
Roll
Unfortunately, it's looking to me like you're not going to have much choice but to get it painted and hope for the best.
I fully agree, six-month old repaint is going to be worth less than a six-month old original finish. I don't think that was the question though, but rather impact to value at lease-end, or even a bit after that. Impact of a decent repaint to the value of a five to seven year old Nissan product (or in my case Toyota), OTOH, will be far less significant, if at all, IMO. Matters not whether it's a G, M, Q, Skyline GTR or Sentra.
Maybe they will go the buy-back route with some sort of pro-rata adjustment for actual use to put you in an '06. The current lease rates on the '06 are quite favorable. I would certainly pursue it, but not expect it.
I'm feelin' for ya Roll. This is not a pickle I'd care to be in myself, so plenty of commiserating coming from this here sideline!
BTW, no, I'm not in the pic. I just grabbed it off a site I know. Reality is that in that kind of proximity to a '57, my knees tend to give out, my breathing gets labored and drool collects on my shirt front. Not pretty...
I'll just have to wait to see what Infiniti decides. I would like a buy back option; it's my first choice by a mile. We'll see.
Would like to know how Yellowcar is doing.
Roll
My wife received a call Friday a.m. asking her to bring the car in for inspection that day. She dropped it off and picked up a loaner.
On Saturday I spoke to the service director: a regional field engineer spent several hours looking over the car with various instruments and indicated he expects to have a report available sometime this week. No findings or other information made available to us at this point.
We did learn that there are at least two other cars at another area dealership with similar problems reported but no details provided to us.
Right now we continue to wait on a response from Infiniti. My wife is so bummed out over this she prefers to continue to drive the loaner sedan rather than reclaim the flawed coupe.
Jim
Is your car Red? You may have mentioned the color but I didn't recall. Did you hear if the "other" cars were also red? If not, what colors?
My dealer states they have not seen this before. Although the Infiniti rep suggested they have had a few and subsequently changed the paint formula.
Thanks,
Roll
We could not pry any details on the other cars from the service director.
Jim